Toxic watches during Rolex hype and my Ulysse Nardin Marine Chronometer 160th anniversary rose gold
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- čas přidán 27. 03. 2021
- Bear Clooney discusses term toxic watches and toxic watch brands which became so prominent during Rolex hype and he proposes question what makes watches and watch brands “toxic”. He also presents his new Ulysse Nardin Marine Chronometer in rose gold and beautiful enamel dial. Check out this video and give us your point of view on so called “toxic watches” and “toxic brands”. Please don’t forget to subscribe and support genuine watch enthusiast channel.
Thank you all from Bear Clooney - Jak na to + styl
Support your local watch enthusiast! At least Bear Clooney is not trying to sell your a nato strap!
😂😂
Thank you Kevin
You mean Chinese nato strap. LOL. I hear you mate, it does my head in when a certain pommie douche puts his crappy strap on every single watch that he reviews.
@@galaga8834 Certain guys start out as watch enthusiasts and then try to make a business out of it. That's usually when I lose interest.
@@galaga8834 LMAO
There is no doubt the watch world has been flooded with individuals buying Rolex, AP, Patek as an investment, and then never wearing them, simply tucking them away in a safe hoping to "cash in" some time in the future. For the rest of us we buy watches for the feeling on the wrist, the appreciation of heritage, and the workmanship that gives these pieces their soul. I believe true enthusiasts love the journey of aquiring their next piece as much as the moment it finally rests on their wrist.
Steven, you made excellent observation and it makes sense my friend
@@bearclooneywatches4186 I can't tell if my watch is fake or real, can you help me out
I love toxic watches. Tremendous value on the secondary market!
Amin you were part of inspiration for this video. Thank you!
@@bearclooneywatches4186 thanks, Bear, I enjoyed the video a lot!
@@aminreviews2311 that means a lot to me
I think if I were starting my channel now I'd call it 'Toxic Watches'.
@@PeteMcConvill lol Pete
The reason why brands / watches turn toxic is quite simple - they are not desired by many people. Watches are very personal, so buy what you love. To me it’s just icing on the cake if the watch I love happens to retain its value.
Scott, but the question is why are they not desired by many people? Thank you for watching and for valuable feedback
Congrats Bear on another beautiful addition to your magnificent collection. Wear it in good health.
Thank you Blueshirt
Great video Bear! Love that intro, clearly a lot of work and love was put in to make it!
Thank you Tim
Hey Bear,
Well done!
A lot of "new collectors" need to venture outside their comfort zone and handle some of these gorgeous timepieces...
I guarantee their perceptions would change immediately.
On another note, I enjoyed your comparison because of your presentation of the dilemma.
"Is it toxic because value retention tanks on second hand market" or "Since their value tanks on secondary market does it make it toxic"?
Well put!
Hope all is well, happy upcoming Easter to you and your loved ones!
Thank you my dear friend!
I got a rose gold 43mm marine chronometer in blue and it's my favorite watch.
I get more compliments on it than other watch.
Congratulations Mike in the new purchase. Stunning. What a special ring - I would give my whole collection to have something so special in memory of my Dad. On toxic watches, I am guilty of buying some of the steel stunners because I love them but also know that my money is safe to an extent. But that physiologically (this may sound stupid) allows me to buy pieces that are not strong on the secondary market but pieces that I just love e.g. the JLC Reverso and the VC Overseas (both coming within the next few months - hopefully) 😁👊
Thank you Mark.
Great review, Bear. I never knew that UN used a similar lug design to the new Breguet Marine (which I love).
Thank you
Great video! For me, I think at this point it comes down to preconceived notions of the status quo. I am not sure exactly what initially led collectors to expect Rolex, AP, and PP to hold their value and to expect brands such as UN and Parmigiani to nosedive off a cliff, but I think at this point it’s the momentum of these prevailing points of view. I agree that some of these “toxic” watches are high quality works of art that can be had for a steal. Personally, I have been eyeing a few UNs for quite some time, and see myself pulling the trigger soon.
Exactly preconceived notions of the status quo. Well said! Thank you
I have this chronometer with the un 118, but in steel with a steel bracelet and gold bezel and indices. I have nthe new diver in full titanium and I love it.
Beautiful watch. Thank you Sebastian
@@bearclooneywatches4186 with the steel bracelet it looks more sporty I paid only 5000 usd for the chronometer with steel bracelet and for the diver 5500 usd
I've been fascinated with the marine chronometer/deck watch layout myself for some time. Congrats on the excellent pick-up, Bear. I'm looking at the Marine Torpilleur model line of Ulysse Nardin; I'm hoping they combine two of my current likes into one regular production watch - grand feu dial and marine chronometer dial.
Many thanks Gilberto! And what a beautiful combination is grand feu dial and marine
@@bearclooneywatches4186 this is the first time I've come across the term "toxic watch", to be quite honest.
@@gilbertombp It's well known term amongst collectors
It’s sad but in this market no hype = toxic. Gorgeous piece
Thank you
Love it! Congrats 🐻. There are only two marines worth mentioning- UN and Breguet Marine (I have)
Thank you maxim. Breguet Marine is remarkable!
How much discount should I squeeze out of a dealer for this gem in England ??
40-45% at least. Thank you Kevin
How do I tell if my watch is a rep or the real thing
Absolute stunner & what a price. Do you rotate your watches daily, weekly or do you have a different philosophy. You have an amazing collection, do you really get to wear and enjoy them all?
To be honest with you I hardly wear most of my Rolex watches. They sit mainly in a bank safe. Thank you Mark
Beautiful watch! I have numerous JLC’s which are also “toxic” as far as resale value.
Excellent example Daniel. Thank you
Nice one, Bear. Strictly speaking, from a depreciation standpoint, Lange fits this category, too--but they are best of the best, in my opinion. They are moving away from ADs and discounts at boutiques, so hopefully the secondary market will treat these wonderful watchmakers with a little more dignity. Also, the dial on your new UN is lovely!
Thank you Vincent and I definitely agree with you
Why should such a beautiful watch be so "toxic"? I really love Ulysse Nardin. The watch reminds me of a nostalgic era of marine travel and navigation and I am sure the brand has a strong connection with maritime history. I am not sure I would like to discuss toxic watches or toxic watch brands as I feel I could get myself into trouble 😉😂 you could argue that watches and watch brands that have a lot hype can be "toxic" but I just look at the watches and appreciate them and love them for what they are - it's a lovely watch Bear, enjoy 🙂
Thank you my dear friend
Another great video 🙏 i think it has to do with strong branding and many have desire to be associated with a certain brand because it gives status. Also many non watch lovers see it as investment nowadays which drives prices up.
Thank you B. Luijkx! Excellent observation
We have West End Swiss watch based on ETA movement working from 40 years!! This brand is almost unknown to newer generation
Interesting
Nice to see something a little different, great video Bear 👍
Glad you enjoyed Ed
I have a Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine in great condition and can't move it cause im new to the watch resell world
When I see a new Bear Clooney Watches video I don't think about it, all I do is click on it and UPVOTE!
Love you Marco. Thank you
That date window is epic... nice watch Bear.
Thank you very much Terry!
I think the phenomenon is driven by “collectors” who see certain brands as an investment and buy them to hold or grow in value. The fix for this would be to track metrics such as price to production cost ratio, the same way we look at PE ratios for equity investments.
Odličan video a još bolji Časovnik. Ako se ne razumijemo onda izvini ali još jednom sat je vrh
Razumemo se odlično. Hvala.
I completely understand why you added this spectacular piece to your collection. Regarding your question, perhaps social media is tremendously influencing certain brands and many of those folks aren’t true watch lovers. I love the power reserve !
Thank you Mike
I got my Marine Torpilleur for over 15% below list but guess it's worth even less now. The brilliant in-house UN-118 w 260 parts, 50 jewels are excessive for a three hander and their own silicone hairspring (patented and sold to the Swatch group) are some of the reasons I want it in my collection. Annoyingly Rolex is good at everything, most accurate movement, their own foundry, superb 904 L steel, most comfy on the wrist etc etc. So I understand people who want one luxury item will go for that brand. Well that's my two cents anyway.
Thanks a lot Truman for sharing your personal experience
Absolutely stunning Ulysses Nardin. The Roman numerals are absolutely perfect. Your taste in watches is impeccable, from the Omega Planet Oceans, to the Rolex Wimbledon, to this. Love this channel, it inspires me.
Oh wow! Thank you! Your comment inspires me.
Beautiful watch Bear.. we are all so caught up on the watches everyone wants us to buy and forget the gems like this watch.. Great purchase.
Well said Andrew! Thank you!
An amazing watch. The enamel dial is wonderful and the date window - wow.
Thank you Colin
Congrats on the watch Bear! I've actually always liked Ulysse Nardin and many of their watches, even though it hasn't always been the most popular and everyone has had fun calling it toxic since Amin got his. I wonder if people know that they were among the first watchmakers to introduce silicon in its escapement years ago. The Freak is an interesting watch. Now as to the topic of toxic, where do you begin? lol....
Thank you Nick. You made excellent point
Interesting watch and clean, legible, bright dial. Large coin edge makes the case rather unique and makes it stand out to be noticed. Good looking watch enjoy. Definitely a perfect match to the ring.
Well said! Thank you my friend. Always good to hear from you Dominick
The best buys in the horological world are probably high quality "toxic" models on the pre owned market. You will get your money back if you sell it, but it will take (much) longer time to sell it than to sell a popular model from one of the "usual suspects".
Regarding Roger Dubuis, the early models are certainly not toxic. The Sympathie series has increased in value for a while, and a manual wind RD chronograph is now worth more than a Vacheron Constantin chronograph with the same Lemania based movement. They used to be similar. (In other words, I'm too late to the market again..)
Excellent observation on high quality "toxic" models on the pre owned market. And you are absolutely right about Sympathie series. Thank you Amund, much appreciated
On the topic of this video that animal dial is pure bliss.
Thanks Mike for sharing your watch journey with us!
LOL Thanks Andrew!
Ulysse Nardin has evolved from a nautical foundation to a Russian gaudy wrist trinket. By the way, I have the 1846 150th anniversary Marine Chronometer in rose gold.
If you’re a watch enthusiast and not just a brand enthusiast it is the way to go . People are so consumed by brand and not the quality . I think that is a gorgeous piece . There’s a dude on you tube who will sell you a nato if you want to change it up ... seriously ..that is one fantastic looking piece and really suits your wrist ...
Thank you
Congratulations 🎉 on the new watch Bear 👌 I don't know the answer to the question why are some brands toxic , I'm thinking it has to do with marketing when you look at Omega and Rolex they spend a lot telling people how cool you will be if you own there watches and it seems to work Rolex doesn't put antireflective coating on there watches so the owners can see there self in the glass 😉
Thank you JJ. That was my thought as well
Does it have a screw-down crown?
I can see the attraction to this piece, I like everything except the roman numerals. Looks well made too. The strap appears to be a high quality and the clasp is beautiful. Good taste, as usual...
Thank you Bob!
I have this Chronometer with the black dial, Arabic numerals, and UN-26 caliber, Ref 263-66. It looks amazing... more like a Pilot than a Marine watch...exactly what I was looking for. I stumbled across the timepiece and was quite surprised that Ulysses Nardin offered a Marine watch, with the look of an IWC Pilot.
Just discovered your channel and loving it Bear! That watch is stunning..I'll be visiting a UN seller this weekend
What do you think of the brand Monta? Also the Parmigiani Tonda GT line? Regards
Thanks so much sidewinder! I really appreciate it. I really like quality and aesthetics of Monta watches and their price point. Parmigiani Tonda GT line are so beautiful to me, but I will always favour sporty look, so no wonder this is my favourite Parmigiani.
There’s only one reason for the toxic resale on high end watches and that is how many units they produce annual , Rolex / Panerai and Audemars Piguet limit their annual output from the factory to general sales , the rest produce on demand way above the unit numbers required to keep the watch exclusive
I have a large enough wrist to wear a 43 as a dress watch but that means I have to have a custom strap made and one that only goes with the one watch. Other than that, I absolutely love the watch. As for value retention, I see most >40mm watches are much cheaper on the 2° market (Seiko and Rolex not so much).
Thank you
Watches that fall in market value make for great used bargains. On the other hand buying a hyped watch at retail plus 30-100% is leaving yourself vulnerable to market adjustments in the future. Always remember that if you sell to a dealer you’ll only get 80% of the market value anyway. In the end just buy what you love and intend to wear over the long term. In that way you’re getting the most out of the watch without being preoccupied with resale. Baby a watch with one eye on the exit and you’re only fooling yourself. You’ll never properly relax and just enjoy the experience. That’s a lovely watch by the way.
I lobe UNs. I own 3 of them. This is a nice review but I would like to hear about the experience of wearing it and comparison in terms of experience with non-toxic watches.
Thank you Alexander. I might do that in a future.
First of all let me congratulate you on your latest purchase. You've picked a beautiful watch, Bear. You've just mentioned one reason for UN to be a toxic brand...high grade elabore ETA. I have nothing against them when properly priced. And in some basic steel models they are.
The other reasons relates to their innovative in house powered movement watche line, indeed they are innovative, funky sometimes gimmicky which can be a red flag, but they definitely look like a Russian nouveau riche couple or a football star and his wife.
Oh man you made me laugh with Russian nouveau riche couple or a football star and his wife. LOL Thanks for watching and sharing your point of view.
Absolutely beautiful watch Bear, wow I love it 👍👍🌹
Thank you kindly and so happy to see you on my channel.
Hello E R it’s so nice to see you again. I hope that all is good with you and your family. Be well and stay safe.
@@blueshirtbuddah1665 Hey Blueshirt, nice to see you, yes all good - hope all is well with you too. Thanks for the message ♥
Your Ring is a Sigil, and do you know what that Sigil was? Edited because I had to check...
You always know your history on your watches, it’s fun to watch, liked 👅
Hi my friend 🙌🙌🤩 This watch is beautiful 👌
Thank you Fredrik, my dear friend
In my humble collection I also have a Panerai Luminor in Stainless steel and I would really love to add a nice titanium Luminor. Somehow people think I’m crazy spending money on a new PAM when I can also get another steel Rolex for the same amount. This whole Rolex hype ruins the fun a bit because there are so much interesting options out there but all you hear people talking about is the resale value. I love my Rolex watches and my Speedmaster so call me weird but I also really like Panerai...even though these days Panerai seems to be a no-go area 😁
Maarten I think Panerai is so beautiful brand with great quality, unique design and great history! Thank you
@@bearclooneywatches4186 , yeah. I have one too but the company screwed up with the endless limited editions and their marketing is not top notch either. 10-15 years ago Panerai had the same reputation as Rolex today. Now look at them.... colossal fuckup.
PANERAI watches are beautiful- look at it this way - be happy that it's not so popular right now and get your discount. I say go for it 100%
For a variety of reasons, many people have decided that Rolex watches are a great way to store value, therefore, attracting many non watch enthusiasts...
Excellent point John! Thank you
At least that’s what they tell their wives
@@DonejMandrakes excellent lol
Britney Spears made a song about being Toxic.. Make of this piece of pop-trivia whatever you want, Bear. lol
No matter what, Congratulations on the Marine Chronometer - another very very nice classic added to your collection, and as always a well thought out video presentation.
Ps. We are group animals. Identifying ourselves as being part of a group by what we wear and NOT wear is essential. At least it is to the groupthinkers.
Hey I love that song! Thank you Fahrenheit 451
That Ulysse is beautiful by the way. Can't beat the price.
Thank you buddy
We should take the time to explore so called "toxic" watches and brands. The key is to do your research and buy carefully, because there are gems and bargains to be had.
People call Breitling toxic. I bought my Navitimer on the secondary market about three or four years ago. Current market value is still the same as I bought it for. I have no intention of selling it mind. I love it too much.
Meson, that's excellent point
Breitling is my favorite brand. But I know that I should never pay retail. Maybe a few years but not now.
Beautiful Watch & great review !
Hey Misha, you are right on the money about Russians really liking UN. I hope this doesn’t off turn you from this beautiful elegant watch!
LOL Yasha... I love Russians and you know it. Good to see you brother
Congratulations Bear. Very nice gold watch for the price you paid.
Thank you kindly
Good I'm here early beautiful watch in deed👊🏾
So nice to see you my dear brother
@@bearclooneywatches4186 Always a pleasure bro👊🏾
Beautiful watch enjoy, I am a rose gold UN 41 marine chrono, blue dial on the blue rubber strap, also the burgundy maxi diver in the rubber. I have been wearing UN for years along with breguet and other so called watch guy known brands. The average consumer is monkey see monkey do, they buy what they see most on social media, and are very easy manipulated. I had a royal oak for years before it became crazy, most people never heard of a royal oak. I personally buy what I like, and buy complications over hype, I will pay retail if I must have it brand new, but never over a penny of its cost. I love being in the room with a watch no one has, makes it much more special, Jeff.
Well said Jeffrey and thank you kindly
I have had the steel Marine Chronometer for about 5years. It has the same ETA movement and is the same watch, just in steel. I love this watch. I wear it a lot. I know our friend Archie Luxury hates these but I really love it. It fits perfectly, wears great, keeps great time and fly's under the radar. Congratulations on your purchase and I think you stole that watch for the price. But who am I ha!
Thanks my dear friend!
I think the reason is simple. It is my opinion that most of people you see on the secondary market know nothing about watches and watch brands. They've heard of Rolex, Patek, AP and maybe Hublot. So they naturally gravitate towards these brands and therefore inflate the prices on the secondary market. Influensers today also have a lot of part in it. People who follow TGV for example do little to no research outside of his videos so if he doesn't talk about a brand like Ulyse they will never know about it. Basically, noobs inflate pricea of certain warches (just look at the SKX, the only reason it goes for so much now is because people like TGV were pushing it so much), demand drives the prices up, people in the know take advantage of it. There are very few true watch enthusiasts, most either just want to brag or invest.
A sat u videu je prelep, emajlirani brojcanik je prva liga 😁
Thank you much for wonderful analyses. Hvala mnogo!
really enjoy your videos
Glad you like them! I really appreciate that
Bear you're killing it my friend and only speaking the truth wish more CZcamsr did well done . And that's a beautiful watch and was actually nice seeing something unique. It's like watching Watch Box how many times do I have to see a Rolex or a 5711 or the same watches every week and weekend it pretty beat into me that there great watches and I made this comment on their comment section and Tim actually replied to me which was shocking and very nice to do so . But he agreed that while it's repetitive and he does try to get other watches on but those hype brand are hot and in the end there a wholesaler of used watches so it make good business sense to put the hot brand on the channel.
Thank you very much Mark. And I absolutely understand Tim.
Bear: Thank you for bringing up this topic of what you refer to as “toxicity” of certain brands. I’ll give you my brief perspective. First, I don’t believe the word toxic is accurate. It’s more “what is currently attracting collectors’ fancies” contrasted with “what is currently out of vogue”. We see this in all collecting areas. This or that becomes hot, then not so hot, then cold. It’s all part of the cyclical aspect that marketing, hype, and subtle societal changes that drive people’s psyche. It’s actually a good thing I believe. Take art for example. How many years did Impressionism drive the art market? Well, it’s done it a couple of times. But things changed. Realism made a comeback, abstract expression took hold, then minimalism, then pop art, then contemporary art, along with, well, I could go on and on. Tastes change, and the demand and accompanying prices change accordingly. It’s what makes the world go around. I like it. If something has true quality, by all means buy it when it goes out of fashion or loses its luster in the current chatter. You won’t live to regret it - if you live long enough.
Thank you for great analysis
Great video, Bear. That's really a beautiful watch. The phenomenon you describe is a really wonky one. I wonder if time will allow for a readjustment. It happens in film & music. Just a few decades ago everyone was teaching Ingmar Bergman in film classes & no-one was teaching Hitchcock. For some reason, Hitchcock just didn't get the critical love he deserved. Now, I think, he gets more attention than Bergman in film courses. A few decades ago (say late 80s or early 90s) the Kinks had really low stock in terms of sales & attention. They were pretty much relegated to cult status. Now their albums from the late 60s are widely recognized as being on par with the Stones, the Who, & the Beatles. I wonder if this is what's happening with some watches & brands in today's context ... I wonder.
Mr. Scaramanga you made truly awesome analogy that I can truly relate to. Thank you very much
Best and most honest watch youtube vids.
Thank you Kepler! That truly means a lot!
Sir, as a result of your video I have considered UN as my next purchase and have found an absolutely stunning maxi marine chronometer that now I am a proud owner of. The UN puts my omega to shame in many aspects. I wanted to thank you for opening our eyes on this sleeper "toxic" brand!
Wow that is awesome! Thank you for sharing
What is the story with Ulysse Nardin and Eastern Europe? I live in Finland and here UN is not so popular but even if I travel to Baltic countries I see a difference... UN is more popular there and in Russia the popularity is huge. What is the story behind this popularity?
Not sure why and how this started but it’s definitely fact.
Rod Taylor would have been the perfect model for that beautiful piece 👍 Tam.
Time Machine! Right? Cheers Tam
@@bearclooneywatches4186 Yes of course Bear its a stunning piece Sir , and would have been perfect in that fabulous movie 👍 Tam.
wow... I want one
Thank you kindly
possibly the movement E T A or Celica ? over an in house ? Like buying a Mercedes S class but then under the bonnet there s a "Crysler deisal " engine ! maybe people want value for there money ?
Hmmm imagine that
Congratulations, it is a beautiful piece .
Thank you CB! Much appreciated
I agree with you, and think much of the hype with especially Rolex is brand recognition. Just my opinion, and I own a few but horologically they are not that refined, complex and worth the money. I feel the longer you're into this hobby the more you'll realize they are not all that and brands like UN, GP, Glasshutte O., Moser and others bring more to the table for less. Some you tubers fan the hype of Rolex which makes sense cause it causes clicks.... I myself have been looking recently at getting an older Hublot or a Frank Mueller which are both polorizing brands but my watches are for me and no one else. Good video
thanks again Bill! I absolutely get your point of view. Thanks for providing it.
Bear: It's very hard to understand how a watch of this quality is going for less than the price of Rolex. I'm looking at a $6,700 Ulysse Nardin like yours but is a two-tone, brand new. This price is less than a current 41 mm Rolex OP if bought at a gray dealer (only place to buy one). So many examples of great watches for much less than Rolex.
Exactly Roamy! Thank you
Great video,
As long as people can cash in on the win, and the buying audience remains ignorent enough to want what other tell them they want. The hype stays. Look at SUV ‘s . Car people hate them, and every car compagny would be crazy enough not to have one in their gamma.
Love your watch. It suits you well. The dress wach discussion is pointless. I daily wear dress watches, but I don’t dress up dailly.
I even wear diving watches when I’m not close to any water.
It’s about how it makes you feel while you wearing it.
Thank you
Thanks BC, not a fan and probably will nvr be one of UN watches. My loss I know, but your review is class as usual. Can't go wrong with a solid YG in any swiss.
Thanks for your kind and encouraging words ED
What makes watches toxic? Generally, they’re brands with predominantly dress watches. Unless you’re wearing a suit daily, steel sports is more versatile. A good example is the Cellini line - even though it’s Rolex, it’s toxic as well.
Stewart, that's actually very keen observation. Thank you
It makes a nice change from a Rolex.
Thank you Marco... Something different
Great watch - sometimes I find UN 'a bit much.' Maybe I should try harder to own my inner oligarch! But this is very beautiful - that plate on the case is superb - truly represents maritime heritage. Reminds me of a Breguet Marine. That 'steampunk/classic' crossover. The whole 'toxic' thing is crazy. Some of the best watches fall into this category: Breguet, ALS, JLC, GP, UN... Some of these watches can be bought for the price of a Tudor! More fool the hype suckers! Still, it leaves these beauties accessible by the illuminati!
Thank you James
I love the UN. Good on you.
Thank you Mr ZoSo!
👏👏👏 Bear, you are a real watch enthusiast. You buy what you like and i think that is a smart and beautiful buy than a Pink Birkin 👛
Oh you made me laugh! Thank you
Only pink birkin I'm interested in has fur trim around it.
@@billyjack5957 LMAO
then also trade back value ! the dealers will eat you alive and offer nothing for the toxic other brands and also they will find very difficult to move unless really cheap bargin price ! so ROLEX is KING ?
Joe, it certainly seems that way
Another great intro, topic and review. I would rather call them Risk brand timepiece. Timepieces that tanks on resale thus risky if you changed your mind. Here's how i see resale value, it's all about profit and nothing about the timepiece. Resale value INJECTS the IDEA of the timepiece being EXPENDABLE or easily abandoned for the right price. The Rolex may help ONE financially, but it's also the first on disposal list. The reason for keeping is for profitable disposal. Buying these Risk brands is all about the craftsmanship, heritage and passion the the timepiece offers. Nothing wrong with buying them new just remember the reason why you are buying it. BUT How do we reduce the risk on Risk Brands? BUY PREOWNED , the acquisituion price being your resale price is highly probable depending on condition. Risk Brands like Ulysse Nardin and Breguet are great watches and despite the resale value is still the same watch when bought preowned. It's a WIN if ONE understands what a WIN is.
Thank you very much Parker
@@bearclooneywatches4186 BTW the Ulysse Nardin is a dressy Sports watch because off the leather strap. Put on the OEM rubber strap and One can easily Jump from the Yacht to the Sea for a quick swim.
You were saying that watches are highly personal, and they tend to be a projection of their owner. Maybe that is why the toxicity gets associated with the watch/owner. Many people I know who hear that I like watches immediately ask if I own a Rolex and are somewhat saddened when I say I don't. They are also quick to bash Rolex owners as sort of snooty types who only want to be noticed b/c they are wearing a certain watch. Many people associate money with brands and so if you have that brand there's some toxicity associated with it? Probably some envy/jealousy?
I was looking at Chrono24 as the video went along at pre-owned and thought the prices looked pretty reasonable and then I switched to NEW. 🤯 Wowzers. It's a beautiful watch, but not $50K beautiful.
I loved your analysis on this topic my dear friend
I know one thing for certain. Even rolex will collapse. Like the black tulip and the Roman Empire. It will.
Robert, all I know is that I don't know anything for certain...
I find it funny to tell someone to avoid watches they like and can get for HUGE discounts, and instead pay HUGE markups over retail on overinflated watches that they don’t really care for. Tells me most of these “gurus” have no idea what they are talking about, and have no unique thought to bring to the table.
Honestly same thought crosses my mind. Good to hear from you my friend
@@bearclooneywatches4186 Congrats on the new “Toxic Time Piece”, 🐻.
People are simply obsessed with the likes of Rolex, Pateks, APs because of great marketing. The Toxic watches are excellent but are poor marketers and don't sponsor sport
Thank you Dayton
Great video but the reason why some brands are toxic is because of poor design and they're not iconistic. Take the watch you're wearing for instance, it's from a bygone Era and will not catch on with mainstream collectors... pretty simple really. It's not that it isn't horlogicalky significant, but people more people want a casual vibe versus really dressy. Anyways, wear in good health.
I think your reasoning certainly makes a lot of sense. Thank you
Marketing, marketing and marketing
You got it my man!
Hi Mike. Beautiful watch my friend. Reason for toxicity? Anything other than Rolex stainless steel sports, Patek Nautilus (and now Aquanaut) and AP RO appear to be toxic. Who knows why (its a mystery to me as it is to you) but in my opinion the reason is that these are merely looked at as investment pieces bought by speculators not enthusiasts. And the more in demand they become, the less available they are at the AD's and so it goes on. And the You Tube influencers simply add fuel to the fire. But I am no expert on this and frankly, for my part, don't care either.......I buy what speaks to me and what I like.
Hello my brother from another mother. So good to hear from you. You make sense to me. I think that summarize it nicely. Thank you
@@bearclooneywatches4186 thanks Mike. Always a pleasure to see a new video from you and have the pleasure to reach out to you in some small way. Take care.
Buy what you love, wear what you buy. Watches are not investments
Thanks Rick
As I was going to say on your FaceBook group Horology Talk, but given over-reactions from admins or members that don't read and misunderstand.... I hear your video in regards to toxic watches/brands. Let me say this and I think you will agree with me to a point. Most brands not all but most brands are not toxic in some parts of the world. By toxic I mean lose value even though a brand might be well made and offer more than a hype brand. In North America what dominates the watch industry are Rolex, Omega, Patek, AP for the most part. EVERYONE wants them. Yes these are great brands but true watch enthusiasts know you can find better quality that Omega or Rolex for the same price or less. I can only speak for the United States the biggest hype and influence is Rolex. Many people are conditioned to think Rolex is the best and it's all about "investment". Let's put aside Rolex, Rolex AD, Greymarket, and Rolex flipper bullshit games. Social media and brand marketing have gained the perceptions and minds of watch clients and enthusiasts to a degree. Many people will not be satisfied with a Blancpain, Longines, Ulysse Nardin, Parmingiani and others of similar quality or heritage. Many people think a collection is not worth it or complete without a Rolex. Let's be real.... This mentality does effect the value of these less desirable brands that it makes them toxic to own. I will go as far as to add the influence online watch sites like Chrono24 make or brake a brand. It also effects how these dealers follow the highest listed price. One dealer listens to a CZcamsr and "holy shit Rolex is going to do this or that" I'm listing this Rolex for $30k. Then the rest of the dealers up their prices. There is no regulation, it's all a speculation market. However, lets look at the source of what makes a brand toxic.... the re-sale value. A REAL watch person who is into the hobby will not care if his Ulysse Nardin is worth $20k or $5k. The idea of "will it be worth ___ $$$$" in a few years or if I sell it is when a brand/watch becomes toxic. Now the other side that will trigger people (some in Horology Talk or other forums) are Toxic watch brand communities. Bear Clooney you and I both love and appreciate many brands including Rolex, but you can't deny how some of these Rolex guys can be (Seiko guys can be assholes as well). There is more negativity resentment, jealousy, assumptions, envy in the watch community in general. Especially when it comes to criticizing other brands that are probably better that Rolex, Omega, others, but due to influence, brand presence, CZcamsrs, and toxic communities. It ends up to be a collective unconscious direct or indirect outlook of these brands that become toxic in regards to value in the used market. Before the internet bands didn't have these issues. Before the internet a 1975 Paul Newman Daytona wasn't worth as much as a Ulysse Nardin perpetual calendar from 1985. It's a blessing and a curse.
Nice analyses my friend. Thank you
Simple ..over supply no demand
Million dollar question is what creates demand! Thanks for watching Andre
No white gloves!?! WTF
Doney, sorry didn't feel like it. Thanks for watching
When rappers start singing about Ulysse Nardin, they will stop being toxic. When 25 year old women are impressed when you say you own a Ulysse Nardin, they will stop being toxic.
pre lep sat
Hvala mnogo