How Continental Builds Diesel Engines
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2014
- A year ago, Continental Motors invested heavily in aircraft diesel technology when it bought the former Thielert works in St. Egidien, Germany. AVweb's Paul Bertorelli recently visited the plant and prepared this detailed video on how the engines are made.
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This was an excellent video. I love seeing the inner workings of such well organized companies. Efficiency first!
Great report . Very good of Conti to allow you such open access , they must be very confident about their work .
This clip is 8 years old. Where are we now with these engines in general aviation?
This was great, and the video quality was super! Thanks, it was fascinating.
Absolutely great video!
Outstanding camera work.
Very interesting, thanks.
Very old school as one would expect in such limited production. The next step in engines is always the child of automotive (cars). Very hard for aviation to keep up. The exception, of course, is turbine power.
It’s a great development in aero engines, the traditional Lycoming and Continental engines have practically stood still and are in essence engines design in the late 1950’s. these engines are so much more reliable, built like modern automotive engnines, taking the load of the pilot to review and monitor fuel flow, head temperatures , mixture etc. They use the new V6 CD300 in the DA50, incredible engine. Well done continental
What is the HP to weight ratio.The fuel Economy vs Avgas? What is the HP? The gearbox looks like it adds a bit of weight, ie: forward CG. Is this engine STC 337 approved for use in the USA?
just great
Whats the web site for how they build it?
Fascinating!
liquid cooled????????????????????
Does anybody know, which foundry is doing the engine block casting, and if they use high pressure die casting technology?
This video is coooooool!
So why didn't you show us how Continental diesel engines are built?
Diesel is the future in engines, much cleaner running.
FEUDAL WORK, BEEN THERE DONE THAT..
straight and level
This video timestamp is a great demonstration of how 7 years later Continental still doesn't have a product they sell to the public. Where's that efficiency?
No radials?
Any idea about the cost of the engine ?
3:48 I could understand that the rough texture would grip both components, but wouldnt grit and metal grind off and damage bearing surfaces. Secondly, it will be uneven surfaces. Surely they machine both surfaces flat.
+MyMIXmedia Absolutely right, haven't seen this process before.
+MyMIXmedia they actually don't. This is fairly standard procedure with all piston engines. You machine them to be round with the required surface quality for the bearing first.
Then they are literally broken apart, as shown in the video.
obviously, only that specific rod will fit its specific counterpart, but those two will fit perfectly.
this has been standard practice in the motor industry for some years now , saves cost and gives a secure precise joint.
you can find fracture split rods even in some motorcycle engines.
The connecting rod "cracked" big end has been employed in the automotive industry for several years. The fit and durability are excellent.
I wonder if they make an engine for the United States FAR Part 103 Ultralight plane? Has to be between 28 and 45 horse power with a top speed of 63 MPH.
This video was published in 2014. Watching in 2022 still baffled why my 1982 PA28 engine cost more than my 2021 car.
If there are so many factories and so many engines being produced ever month, at least since 2014, why would a 4 cylinder lycoming cost $54k ?!
What alternative is there? How much competition is there in the market? That pretty much answers your question...
That v6 engine looks like it is built off a Mercedes OM642
COOL
does the engine have to use low sulphur diesel or the regular high sulphur red diesel?
Aviation desiel engines actualy burn JET-A, which is basically kerosene
red diesel isnt high sulphur anymore.
Diesel, the gold of oil companies.
The thing about aircraft engines vs automobile engines. Aircraft engines have to be (100% *Zero* Room For Error) *_PERFECT!_* If your cars engine fails, you coast to the side of the road and have a bad day. But if your planes engine fails.. it's your ass! I would be nervous building an aircraft engine. I don't care how good I was at it, every time one of my engines left the building, I'ed be hoping I dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's. Not only because I don't want to be responsible for anyone dying, but also for the fact that I could end up going to prison for those deaths. The NTSB is really good.. They will find that bolt you may have over torqued that caused the engine failure. Then.. It's _your_ ass! Oh yeah, I forgot to thank you AVweb for a great video.
My cousin is a diesel mechanic, gets paid nicely actually. A bud of mine owns a private airport and hangers for owners of planes like that but you'll never get me up on one of those. Here recently they've been dropping out of the sky like flies due to failure.
_Yoooo Phlem Phlam!_ How the hell are ya bro? You ain't shittin' about these planes droppin' like flies now a days. Now that I think about it.. nah.. I'll still fly in any plane, any time, any where. I can't help it, I love aviation that much. :o) I tell ya, I would be thinking about that shit while I'm up there though.
Blaze0357 What's up bro! Long time no hear my friend. Yeah another just fell from the sky about a few days ago. Gotta love fans like yourself that will keep flying them because there's plenty of them in the area and I see them in the air all the time. Good hearing from you buddy and keep in touch! :)
+Phlem Phlam
Are you sure that the _dropping out of the sky like flies_ is unrelated to your cousin's work? 😉
Blaze0357 yep
What does TAE 125 stand for?
Maybe, Thielert Aircraft Engine 125?
What is the ratio of the gear box that drives the Prop?
I am guessing engine rpm at around 4200.
Lots of piston travel vs the engines we are use to!
Your Idea of the life of an engine producing full power at 4500 rpm.
Thanks
+yogi 1948 I can only say, their has never been a reliable aircraft engine design over about 200 HP that has a continuous RPM over 4000.
+yogi 1948 Usually aircraft engines are direct drive, no gearbox between crankshaft and prop.
RPM around 2500 for diesel around 200 HP.
In this video they did not show any aircraft engines. What they show are are all automotive engines.
+urbanturbine Watch again, these are all aircraft engines. Last few shots are one on the dyno being broken in.
+bigtoyota479 Maybe... but still seem strange. the engines in the video look water cooled... i'd expect to see simpler air cooled units... thank you for the feedback on my comment.
+urbanturbine I honestly hadn't considered the water cooled aspect but at the beginning of the video they showed the engine laying on it's side behind a prop with the gear unit on the block. I did go to the Continental website as my curiosity was peaked. It looks like quite a few of the new engines are liquid cooled.
What no completed engine and running it?!
It is Honda?
in Brazil we have the álcool lycoming is the same engine avgas with simple change , aplicable for to much ag aircrafts , work very nice and without problems, the álcool make to extend the time life of cilinders, pistons, ring sets, valves, guides, and with out polution, the consum is 25% increased but the price of álcool is 3x minus of avgas, the gal of álcool in brazil is usd $ 2 dollars per galon, also the oil of engine is always clean, the álcool is great as fuel, half of cars in country using it as fuel for 30 years or more .
+Oscar Pimentel O avion e a alcool ¿ O piloto tambein. No voar bebendo podese derramar a bebida
Oscar Pimentel hey...thats a good engine.
I'm trying to build an alcohol engine now .. Lycoming Engines were made 50 miles from my house...I don't know if they still are , however I never heard of an alcohol version.
While there are many benefits of running alcohol, the consumption of alcohol is much higher than avgas, meaning you won't fly as long on the same amount of fuel. For agricultural aircraft, cruise distance isn't a problem.
Lycoming is certified many of its popular engines to run on avgas. The main problem remains the fuel system, from the tank to the fuel pump need to be checked regularly for corrosion from alcohol based fuel.
São usados em aviões especializados em fumígação aérea! Justamente porquê as maiores plantações são justamente de cana de açúcar e interessa muito as usinas consumir combustível de produção própria.
Wow!! you can run a flat four boxer Lycoming aero engine on alcohol extracted from sugar beet, kale, potatoes, and apples, what about fuel extracted from algae?.
May I please have a no emissions or def Diesel engine for an 82 Ford Bronco with a 4 speed please.
Thank you
Interesting, for sure. I'm surprised and a little disappointed that they are not flat engines, like aircraft engines (except radial, of course) historically are. I wonder why that is?
The reason why that is, is a opposed/boxer-four engine has perfect primary and secondary balance. An ordinary inline 4 cylinder engine with 180 degrees up-down-down-up crank throws may look like cancelling the upward inertia created by the #1-#4 piston pair with the downward inertia of the #2-#3 pair and vice versa, but in fact the upward inertia is always stronger, and the vibration caused by this imbalance is traditionally called the Secondary Vibration. Another reason is boxers are shorter, which which makes the crankshaft shorter, stronger, and smaller diameter with lower bearing surface speeds. It enables direct drive without inverting the engine to maintain propeller clearance, and not having to deal with hydro-lock or having a gear, chain, or belt system like you see here. Moreover, if you do gear a boxer for performance reasons, the gearing an be made simpler, lighter, and with less maintenance, by using a simple inline planetary gear set on a well-balanced engine. The camshaft is also shorter, and it requires no balance shaft, which is essentially an imbalanced shaft to compensate for the engine's imbalance by hammering in the opposite direction. V engines share some of the same advantages as opposed/boxer engines. When it comes to properly designed engines, the number cylinders determine the configuration. For V engines that means a V12 must be a 60 degree V, a V8 must be a 90 degree V, and a V6 must be a 120 degree V. If they are not, they require a balance shaft or you put up with the secondary vibration outside of the engine. The V8 is the perfect V design for cars because it is short, and is enough of a V to make room for an accurate, parallel suspension system. The sub-optimal mess you see today with engines and the is driven by cost and fuel efficiency. If you start out by adapting a modern car engine, this is what you get.
The sub-optimal design carries through to suspension also. The MacPherson strut makes room for transverse engines, but whenever you go over bump, the wheels experience camber change and lateral movement rather than straight up and down like they used to. Low profile tires is not what you want. The ride is not as good, and It's heavier. One saving grace it has is helps with offset frontal crash ratings without adding any more weight than it already has.
@@jackt6112 the chain drive is actually because they have overhead cams, not because it's an inline engine. Back in the 1920, there were plenty of inline engines with no timing belt or chain because the camshaft was right to the crankshaft, and they used pushrods, like in your boxer engines. Modern auto boxer engines have timing chains because they use overhead cams.
The McFerson suspension, has nothing to do with engine layout, it is to compensate for handling. Parallel suspension has the major flaw of always keeping the wheels parallel with the body. This is wrong because when you go around a corner, the wheels are no longer flat on the ground because the body is no longer flat on the ground. Cars lean out of turns, so the suspension has to be designed to lean the wheels into turns. McFerson suspension does this well. Most double wishbone setups are now designed to mimic McFerson geometry, but with a greater level of tuning.
@@jackt6112 A lot of mistakes and little understanding of design in your write up.
Diesel piston is a good idea
I assume that the engines are run on Jet A kerosene fuel. Jet A is generally cheaper than avgas but you would need to fly many miles before you would recover the cost of installing the diesel.
Mark H Diesel isn't available at very many airports and diesel fuel gels at low temperatures. I saw another video where the rep from Continental states that the engines will use Jet A. Jet A is cheaper but not that much cheaper. The diesel engines are expensive.
Mark H True, but it's much easier to buy Jet A at an airport. Diesel would likely have road taxes because there are so very few diesel airplanes. Plus, you wouldn't need a heater; saves weight and complexity.
EpiDemic117 The diesel engine will always be more expensive to produce and that is a major issue to overcome.
+EpiDemic117 HI EpiDemic, you are right that it is costly (FAA approval) but liability is even worse. A friend and I went to Germany to buy a MODERN aircraft engine, as soon as the company realized that the aircraft was going to be registered in the US, the deal was off! Sadly enough, the company explained to us that it was absolutely not financially sound to sell to the American market AND the company rep stated that no other European aircraft manufacturer would risk the reputation of their company in the
"frivolous litigation-prone American market". Needless to say, we were deeply insulted and had to look "back home" to older engine designs to power his Lancair IV. Sad but true! Ciao, L
Mark H Hi Mark, I agree with you. The problem was that even with the experimental class, the builder (i.e. the company) of a "certified" engine (in other countries) would still find themselves liable in our legal system. Between 1964 and 1988, the liability of an aircraft manufacturer (consider Cessna, Piper, and Beechcraft) increased 2,000 fold reaching $100,000 per aircraft by 1988. Lawyers circumvented the General Aviation Revitalization Act (GARA) of 1994 which limited product liability to 18 years by extending lawsuits to nearly every single part manufacturer used in the aircraft, the private airports, FBOs, flight schools, av-gas providers, aircraft storage areas, etc. You are right, it is killing us. The greatest obstacle to any reform was/is the Association of Trial Lawyers of America (ATLA). It is unreal, may God help us. It also threatens other manufacturing sectors. Take care, Ciao, L
It's a pity Subaru didn't make a diesel as that would fit in a small plane nicely
The Germans certainly have their crap together when it comes to producing top quality products, not like the rest of the world, unfortunately. That lower connecting rod splitting technique is novel and absolutely brilliant.
" connecting rod splitting technique is novel and absolutely briljant" = copied from BMW
+Johans60 And I guess BMW is what, Chinese?
+Jaime Almeida ..... yep , the German speaking bit of China .......... when Zeppelin left Hong Kong , Mao waived him off & said " Come back soon , Led , when you ' ve got that design sorted ............. "
+osp80 .....it a very mixed bag . If your accolade is the jerno. test , the German have it , good technical stuff for jernos to get their oooo measure the specification ruler onto , lots of new new new & if the service department have kept up , some bright computer to sort out the problems ...... but of course , when it ' s a bit older in the teeth & the plugs & wires are a little cracked & ware , the problems of over complex come to kill any advantage that was found to start with . But , we are on the cusp , this wiring , will improve , if the engineers have their way , the VW stupidity , should help that happen . When you have management to only likes to hear yes , then eventually some silly sod will say yes , when they should say no .
+osp80 I think a lot of that I'd the result of the Daimler/Chrysler marriage. They thought the German design and build quality would transfer over to Chrysler. Turned out that Chrysler was just so horrible they dragged down all of Germany. Seriously, Dodge couldn't even get a decent build quality on their flagship Viper.
COOOL!
Send engine please
Mercedes has had some trouble with the un-doubled timing chain that seems to be in these engines.
Aircraft engines have to be rebuilt frequently enough that it won't a problem.
@@AlexandarHullRichter maybe, but it is still a helluva constant load on a little chain.
@@ronashman8463 no, it's not. It's just running the cams. If you want to see a heavy duty drive chain, look inside the transfer case of a 4x4. That's where you need a strong chain.
@@AlexandarHullRichter fair enough, you chose a good example. I was thinking of the very varied torque strain the chain has to work with. As each lobe lifts its valve the shaft requires big power to keep it rotating. As the lobe goes past full open, the load required would drop to almost nothing. In a 4 cyl motor, twin cam, that is 4 peaks per single camshaft rotation. However I do agree that cam chain problems do not seem to occur.
Price 100.000 usd
Like the cross bolted mains, shame its not on all five caps. Don't like the skinny cam chain a duplex chain should be driving the camshafts not single row.
Under engineered for the job in hand, belt and braces is the oder of the day when it comes to all thing that fly, because of the damage they can do if gravity has its way.. Skimping on parts that will last longer is penny pinching and down right foolhardy..
re: "Don't like the skinny cam chain a duplex chain should be driving the camshafts not single row." no worries, unlike cars aero engines are obligated to go through a much more frequent inspection and R&R process regarding their components. flying airplanes aren't for the "spend thrifty", in fact the FAA will tell you as much.
Are diesel engines more reliable for airplanes than gas ones. ?
i think main advantage is $$$$ saved from economy engine fuel consumption from diesel
fidel catsro thanks
@@fidelcatsro6948 the real advantage is AvGas is not readily available in all parts of the world and mogas is of dubious quality.
@@robertstringfellow8912 Exactly! Low-altitude and low-hp engines where av gas is not available is the ONLY market for these contraptions because at that point, their only competition are the expensive low-hp turbines, which cost more initially, and burn more fuel.
Hazet best tools in the world.
No computer or emission control system PLEASE
timing chain? thats the weak link there
No other way you're getting overhead cams, unless you'd prefer a timing belt.
Besides which, having worked on cars, I can tell you the timing chain is absolutely not the weak link.
Having owned cars with cam belts, I now ONLY buy vehicles that have chain driven camshaft(s). I have never had a problem since.
Gears for me please!
We run these engines in our Diamond DA 42's, and they have constant electrical problems. Engines run great but the electronics for it are crap.
Excuse me, just curious, what kind of electrical problems?
Notice how much more proper everyone looks compared to the American factories.
Use a 2 stroke Diesel engine amigo! less parts!!!
Like the Achates w/ opposed cylinders.
Sadly it was not possible to stop engine oil escaping out of the exhaust ports in the cylinder walls. The small oil loss did not matter, but the air pollution did.
T.B.O ?
a diesel engine powering an aircraft? never would have thunk it'! a cummins12v in the front of a little Cessna.WOW! a little nose heavy, no?
Made in Germany
I think it's a modified Mercedes diesel engine
Continental is backing the wrong horse at the pony races, the oil burner,s enemy regarding aviation application is weight. They should pull their heads out the sand and knock on Scooby,s Door, Yes Mr Continental those canny engineers at Subaru have designed developed and put in production, a flat four boxer diesel engine, compared to that tractor engine you knocked up the Scooby oil burner is very neat and lighter considering all the plumbing for the radiator. I do not know the Scooby oil burner,s pony count but redesigned by competent hands on engineers with grease under their finger nails ,around one sixty,one sixty five ponies at the propeller
Should be titled 'How Continental buys up,copy's and builds' other companies engine designs,or in some cases shelves them.
$30,000 + for this diesel and no R&R in that price you can add 2 to 3 thousand to the price to put it in! NO THANKS!!
EpiDemic117 I'm a pilot and a mechanic This is insane!
EpiDemic117 Agreed 100%
+EpiDemic117 The problem with General Aviation piston-engines is not with the FAA, it is with the huge liability that plagues American small aircraft aviation. This is why no company wants to market new technology in the American market (other than high-price turbine engines), this is why we (USA) have lost most of the small aircraft market. You crash your airplane going through a thunderstorm with a Private Pilot license (no IFR qual), the NTSB report shows a perfectly functioning aircraft at the time of the crash, the family can/and will still sue Bendix, Firestone, Continental, Cessna, King, ICOM, etc... basically everyone that has made a part in that aircraft and force these companies to settle for some amount or face years of litigation. Even if 85%+ of accidents are caused by pilot error, in our current legal climate, you can still milk money out of manufacturers. This is why we are still using Continental or Lycoming designs dating back from decades ago. Sad but true, Ciao, L (a very frustrated pilot)
EpiDemic117 Hi, unfortunately, the problem is only going to get worse - our legal system is a huge business in the US, the largest legal system in the world actually. With 2.8% of our entire population under some correctional/legal supervision (BJS report 2014), over 1% of our entire population in jail (over 1 year sentence, not including juvenile), with our legal being the third most lucrative business (and expensive) system in the world referred as the "prison-industrial" complex, daily TV advertisement to sue for various reason (medical the top one), we (Americans) are in trouble - we are actually self-destructing but try to explain that to "Joe the plumber" when he can make a quick buck suing someone else. A large part of our population is paid one way or the other by our legal system and our TV shows (which basically raises most of our broken families' children) are more violent, scandalous, and trashier than ever - we are in trouble!, Ciao, L
***** Hi IngLouis, I am not saying that we should not have lawsuits at all, currently (2014) the average plaintiff gets $0.15 on the dollar award (understand, this is average). Litigation is extremely expensive for some (and lucrative for others).
There is a perception that if anything "bad" happens to an American (and I am one), it has to be someone else's fault. On the networks, afternoon programing, you can see advertisement for lawsuit hourly (if not more).
Were I live (peaceful Maine, "the way life should be"), neighbors sew each other over ridiculous issues.
There is a big difference with Canadian mentality (across the border from here) and us when it comes to blame.
We need, some reform, some common sense, we need to take responsibility for some of our actions. Take care, Ciao, L
lol Its a Saturn engine! Foam cast molds, cool!
What is that pic? A lady with something that vibrates between her legs?
I don't think they're very efficient having one huge machine that tightens the same 2 bolts all day, but still needing some doofus to guide the bolts home. Made me kind of laugh actually.
And also, why a timing chain...when the technology exists to create timing gears...so much more efficient and reliable. And...a bit over half a day to only assemble a small part of the engine? I've assembled small block Chevy engines with rather tight tolerances in a couple hours. Completed. Hilarious stuff, as if taking longer to assemble an engine means it's a better product.
Yes, you truly are the expert! ;-)
Overhead cams. You can't gear that. Engines with geared cams have to use pushrods.
Most truck overhead cam engines are gear driven.Look at CAT,Cummins or 60 series Detroit.Mercedes old inline 6 diesels were OHC and gear driven.
4 Cylinder junk build. Go with Lycoming. Much better engine !!
Out of house, That tells you what you need to know!!
And a timing belt? Lyceming's diesel uses a timing belt.
Can’t wait until everything goes electric. Tired of this archaic technology that expensive and inefficient.
Junk !!!!!
Continental engines are very good
Germans and European manufacturing people are some of the best in the world right next to the American worker we are all in this together