Stoicism for Everyday Life - Roundtable Discussion
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The full round-table discussion (one hour long) from the Stoicism for Everyday Life event at Birkbeck, University of London on November 30th, 2013. Participants included Prof. Chris Gill chairing Julian Baggini, Jules Evans, Antonia Macaro, Richard Sorabji, and Mark Vernon.
Questions covered in the fascinating discussion and debate include: Can Stoicism be revived as a guide to life today? Should Stoicism be revived today? How much of Stoicism do we have to embrace if we try to revive it? Can we establish via evidence its effectiveness?
Adapting Stoicism today raises many interesting questions - join in with your view on the debate below!
I used stoic techniques to quit smoking and get fit, while at the same time becoming a better father and partner practicing a personal hybrid of stoicism and buddhism
Same...
"Beauty is persuasive. It sinks these ideas into the soul." I like that comment very much.
0/10 Table not round.
I am truly dedicated to Stoicism and I believe it can make you a better person with time, patience, and practice. However, I have to admit this discussion did not go well as king phillips below clearly pointed out. Christopher Gill did not step in as much as he should have done. I believe he knows Stoicism well and has the right ideas but he did not intervene when it was spiraling out of control. Some of the panel members I hope will not be there on stage this year. Not that they don't have anything to say, just I felt they were not true advocates of Stoicism: the whole reason why we are here, right? I will say this: It can help you lead a better life. I think some of these people on the panel are still too influenced by modernism and religion, except Gill and the person on the far left influenced by Epitectus. I was surprised by the person's comments (Richard) on the right of C. Gill....Anyway, you need to get out of the box and start to unlearn what you have learned from this messed up consumer driven society we live in now. Even religion. Unlearn everything and then embrace Stoicism. I am saying as other members also said not to live in seclusion but be moderate and use moderation in your life. Maybe Donald Robertson will do a better job this year. His book was wonderful. Get me on that stage and we will discuss how we can all live a better life using Stoicism as a guide.
I just think they were terrified of saying something too radical or different for fear of "offending" someone which is a real shame. I came here to learn about stoicism but didn't learn very much.
CiceroAntonius I agree! This discussion was in many ways telling folks Stoicism isn’t applicable today.
This is odd for a conference allegedly dedicated to espousing Stoicism. Jules Evans stated as much and instead stated it’s passed its usefulness . CBT counselors are oftentimes difficult to locate even in large metropolitan regions. It may help, though it doesn’t displace Stoicism.
In summary, they’ve only served to make Stoicism more complicated than need be and an over analysis of a simple guide to living a sane and meaningful life. For instance, CBT counselors are few and far between depending on where you live. They’re explaining Stoicism in a ridiculous way...”Too much Stoicism.” If anyone has a modicum of common sense, we can apply Stoicism to our daily life with family, friends, and how we approach life in general.
I read the comments below and skipped this video. I'll take Stoicism proper.
Just beginning to study stoicism, and I found this a particularly interesting discussion; which I am taking with a grain of salt mind you.
I agree with Cicero that some of these people have unquestioned modern assumptions and are closed to stoicisms true point of view. If only there was a modern man/woman who had as much love and conviction for this school of thought as Epictetus, Marcus and Seneca had.
+Dillan Hill Give it time ! :D and/or effort.
"If only I had as much love and conviction for this school of thought as Epictetus, Marcus, and Seneca had." Remember to bring the expectation to the one person you can control.
Very true Damaso. Thanks for that
I'm interested. I'm practicing it and have been widely using it's teachings without reference until I read Meditations and Epictytus just recently. I think its brilliant
Justin Archer how is it different from your past practice and has it brought clarity to what you seem to ready been doing?
+Marie Nimo Honestly its not much different. like zen Buddhism or Christian teaching. If we just be at peace and be thankful then we are already being rather stoic.
Too many speakers it probably makes a good point somewhere I bet perhaps a condensed version please that hits the major points.
At 34.30, is Chris Gill adopting a burial pose as a Stoic spiritual exercise?
Great video
Some of the ideas expressed here about Stoicism are not what i recognise as Stoicism. I think some of the discussion became muddled with other ideas. The notion that things "don't matter" to Stoics in particular. I would say it was the opposite. Stoicism is compassionate. It is about empathy for others and your self.
jesh, if these are Stoicim's supporters, then it is truly dead
However, it is very alive. The reports of its institutional death are untrue.
Google it man. Mainstream people are seeking out and sticking to Stoicism because it works especially after the Covid-19 pandemic. People realise their need to get grounded within themselves and in dutiful fellowship with others.
With tge notable exceptions of Christopher Gill, Antonia Macaro and Jules Evans, other speakers have gross misconceptions about Stoicism.
Talk and more talk about the dream.
I also don't see where the logos are problematic.
Though I think logos are good guidance on which we should live our lives, the reasoning behind it is ancient. Early stoics believed that logos are derived from living in accordance in nature because nature was providential. Now, in 21st century scientific view, that cannot be because there is no evidences behind universe being providential. If you have religion or believe in divine being, you could somehow get around that problem. For a person like me (more atheist), I have to take logos with grain of salt because ancient Rome and Greece had not scientific knowledge that we have now. But, I still think it is useful to think in terms of it.
I could be completely wrong so take my words with grain of salt also.
Would a stoic find himself in Vietnam unless it were helping someone? I suppose Virtue is subjective... This viewpoint comes with the wisdom of age... I was afraid an Epicurian would show up and a fight would break out, but then I remembered that an Epicurian wouldn't bother.
Don’t ignore the fact that the so-called Wisdom Literature of the Apocrypha - and also the books of Ecclesiastes and Proverbs - are very much connected to some forms of Stoic thinking. As well, both Jewish and Islamic thinkers assimilated Stoic wisdom into their approaches to living a good life. In other words, all three Western outlooks that emerged from the Mediterranean and the Middle East in the Late Antique and Medieval periods, especially as Islamic and Jewish sages worked to translate the ancient Greeks into Arabic and, somewhat later, into Latin (in concert with medieval Christian scholars).
11:25
36 min in and all they’ve done is to discuss whether stoicism is relevant to modern day life. I wanted to just learn more about it, not whether the elite think I should be learning about it or not.
Alternative(s) shoud involve not allowing any one therapy to become "market leader" because politicians find it convenient and cheap. Not fitting people into theories, and highlighting the distal causes of proximal distress would be a good placece to start. ln short the complete opposite of the so called IAPT initiative.
Stoicism doesn't care about being first or being fashionable again. In fact fashion is antistoic. It will easily endure for 2000 more years without even trying.
Without a metaphysics and simply not being in favour of this materialist striving while upping our ambivalence through efforts such as cbt can only contribute to greater anxiety in everyday life.
The Stoic School does have a mature metaphysics and epistemology. For example, a brief introduction is stoicschool.org/analytical-stoicism We have always had sharp differences with the Academics.
Guy in the purple is exactly what I think Galba looks lie.
We need to know the source of true philosophy which is in Providence and in the Logos, the Tao, and the Way. Without the Logos, is ‘modern stoicism’ any more than self help psychology? Without meaning why do we live? To say that you are very much in favour of the stoic concept of virtue is not quite the point. The purpose of life has to be about living the virtuous life and following the Logos - this is why the relationship between Stoicism and Early Christianity is so interesting. Many Stoics became Christians.
This a sad video. Helmsofphilosophy over at Wordpress does a way better job of discussing the Stoic philosophy.