HVAC 163 Leak Dye, stop leak, and additives
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- A big topic is the use of Leak Dye, leak stop and Additives.
If stop leak additives do actually work, how do you feel about homeowners doing it themselves?
IF stop leak additives do actually work why do HVAC equipment manufactures not allow it? Would it not save them millions of dollars vs paying for warranty leak repairs?
Always check with the manufacture to see what additives they allow and follow instruction and all safety protocols.
I have not found any manufacture of HVAC equipment or compressors that allow leak stop.
Some manufactures do allow specific brands and types of leak dye while others specifically note they the use of leak dye will void the warranty.
Tests I have found from manufactures do not show any significant benefits to oil additives or increased performance.
I was taught there should be 2 things should be in a refrigeration system, refrigerant and refrigerant oil. That may not be completely accurate as new technology comes in. However dont let the deception of marketing (New Improved, better, faster) fool you. How many products do you know that do not do what they say?
Ben Majerus, manager, field systems engineering, Danfoss:
“Danfoss spends extensive engineering time selecting and qualifying our compressor oils. Oil viscosity, miscibility, foaming, and wear properties are some of the key variables that are evaluated to choose the right oil for each refrigerant type. The oil selected is then tested during our engineering qualification of each compressor model to ensure long-term reliability and performance. Our testing is comprised of hundreds of compressors and thousands of hours-of-life testing performed at extreme conditions, so the wear on internal bearing surfaces can be examined. Without testing each of the leak additives, Danfoss cannot guarantee they won’t negatively impact the long-term reliability, so we will not endorse these type of additives. If detected during a warranty claim, it would void our warranty terms.”
www.achrnews.com/articles/132...
Randy Tebbe, service engineering manager, Emerson Climate Technologies Inc.:
“Creating and maintaining a leak-free refrigerant system is always a goal; however, we have not conducted testing on the vast amount of additives available to approve adding a substance to a refrigerant system that will plug leaks from the inside to achieve that goal. The typical refrigeration or air conditioning system has multiple designed orifices with restriction from cap tubes and thermal expansion devices to injection ports and oil feed holes. Adding a substance intended only to block refrigerant leaks, thereby blocking the orifices, creates a host of potentially negative implications. The substance also brings with it unknown effects on the system’s components, seals, oils, and even manufacturing process fluids over time. Because there are so many unknown effects at this time, Emerson does not approve the use of additives in the presence of refrigerants.”
www.achrnews.com/articles/132...
Dave Boyd, vice president of sales and education, Appion Inc., noted compressor manufacturers will never bless using foreign materials on an air conditioning or refrigeration system, and he agrees with that stance.
“The only thing that should ever be in a system is pure virgin refrigerant and oil,” he said. He cited Kokinda’s story as a perfect example of why systems must be properly brazed or crimped, pressure tested, and evacuated.
Joseph Kokinda, president and CEO of Professional HVACR Services Inc. in Avon Lake, Ohio, said he has seen it all in his 40-plus years in the mechanical trades, and, based on his experiences, he is not a fan of leak-stop agents.
He relayed a story of recently finding a huge pool of leak-stop agent around a missed brazed joint in a large refrigeration system. The customer’s records showed the system had about 90 pounds of R-404A added to it each quarter since 2004. According to Kokinda, an acceptable leak rate for the HVACR industry should be zero, and the way to achieve that is through proper installation upfront and proper service throughout the equipment’s life.
www.achrnews.com/articles/132...
Trane Warranty void if dye used listed below
www.trane.com/content/dam/Tra...
Emerson allows use of spectroline leak dye
www.racplus.com/news/emerson-...
Ty you always bring a new value with ever new video
I prefer to find the leak and fix it than to use some chemicals I don’t know what can cause to the whole system. It’s the same for cars use this product to clean fuel system,for me I believe these company’s looking for many not more. Thank you Mr.Ty.🌹
Ty. l do not hate or like dye or magic seal kind of old school. Having said that certainly we like your presentations and explanations. Top and many thumbs up! Thank you
The can of super seal, I have used many times. Luck varies. But I have had it seal a fairly large leak to get out of a pinch over a holiday weekend when a coil could not be sourced. When rechecked a week later when the coil came in the unit was working perfectly with a full charge. 5 years later the system is still chugging along.
Wow that is impressive! Thanks for the feedback.
The company I work for uses ez-seal ultimate with generally good success. We have good practices and I theorize that contamination in the form of air causes internal stoppage. I have not had the tube cause a compressor or txv failure yet, but the old school cans have killed several, again likely highly contaminated before the addition.
Great feedback thank you!
I love dye at least for in cars. One quick look under my car caught a leak very early. Sealant crap I dont touch no sealer in AC no sealer in radiator.
When I get to finally install AC in my home I will definitely put in some dye during the install.
"Black light" is jargon for "UV (ultraviolet) light" yet you make a distinction between the two as if they are different things. But the two terms are interchangeable. Each flashlight is designed to produce light at a particular wavelength (frequency), corresponding to what we call "color." Anything below about 400 nm (a deep purple color) is generally considered "ultraviolet light" (a.k.a. "black light"). "Black" refers to the fact that the light is outside the humanly visible color range (ultraviolet, UV, in this case). What you are referring to as the "black light" has a deep purple hue, so is probably just around 400 nm or slightly under, just at the edge of human visibility. Look at the label on the other, smaller, "more expensive" one. It has "3 UV" LEDs and "2 BLUE" LEDs. The reason for the blue LEDs is probably to help you humanly see where the spot is, exactly where you are pointing it. I have both a "385-395 nm" UV flashlight and a "365 nm" UV flashlight. I can see the slight purple in the former, but can see nothing at all in the latter, because it is well outside the human color perception range. For the latter, all I can see is what it causes to fluoresce. Anything that "fluoresces" (your HVAC dye, your white laundry, a scorpion, a fluorescent light bulb, etc.) is simply color-shifting the UV to a visible color. Different "fluorescent" materials have different properties, such that they fluoresce at a certain wavelength range (of UV). The questions you need to address about the "more expensive UV flashlight" compared to the "cheap, box store black light" is, first, is it "Yellow Jacket" dye spilled on the table that you are shining the "Yellow Jacket" flashlight on; and, second, does the flashlight even work (the UV LEDs in it), because I am surprised that the dye doesn't seem to fluoresce at all. Also, consider that the cheap "black light" is bigger, so probably has more or more powerful LEDs with bigger/more batteries in it than the little pen-sized light. Of course, you know the manufacturer of the little pen light that comes with the dye is going to brand-label it and mark that thing up much more, as well! I'm sure that Yellow Jacket does not actually make the flashlights themselves.
Excellent information thank you!
Most newer dyes are oil based, so it's oil. The leak fixes are my last resort, and as long as it is out of warranty. I have had a 55% success rate on many evaporator leaks. By the way, black lights are UV lights. The 365 nm range is best.
I use “max seal 1.5 - 5 ton + UV dye”. Believe me or not but I fixed a lot of systems with it. When the leak is small or I can't find it. No problem with the txv. I even used it to fix ductless mini-split evaporator coils. First time I discover it works 3 years ago. Bought it from Johnston supply in Santa Anna, CA. I'm an HVAC C20 contractor and repair technician.
Thank you for the feedback, that's what I want to know!
@@love2hvac yeah, thank you for the video. That upper comment regards stop-leak was from my personal Gmail account. On my channel, I have some repair videos when I use that stop leak for the repair. (but they are all In the Russian language) Lol.
You, Craig, HVAC School, gray furnace man, my top channels from where I learned a huge percentage of what I know.
I have tried refrigerant stop leak products on and off for several years and have truthfully had very poor results. I have never had an equipment failure but as far as stopping a small leak, especially with R410a pressures, I have not had good success at all. They were disappointing expensive experiments . I seriously wish they worked better but unfortunately they have not. Many people just don’t have the money for proper replacement of leaking coils. I am spending more time trying to repair them with special low temp solders rather than use stop leak products.
The low temp solder is pretty cool.
I do appreciate the feedback. Your experience is like mine.
My company uses easy seal. Company is ethical and really looks out for people. I don't know how I feel about it though. I've seen small leaks in the evap coil and easy seal seems to have prevented the leak the next time we come back. I don't like the idea of having any coagulating chemical in the system though.
Thank you for the feedback!
@@love2hvac I appreciate you actually talking about it. Seems like a taboo topic.
Dye has a place. If a system is being replaced, and you have seen the final approved invoice saying the new system is on its way. Leak stop is good 72 hours and probably just the night before.
That sounds reasonable thanks for the feedback.
@@love2hvac Can not argue with that..... I use FLEXSEAL ! lol
If it's an old dying system on it's last legs then yeah maybe. I'd still do my best to find the leak before jumping to magic potions.
And what about the lineset, can it be reused if it's had leakstop running through it?
Great points
Not to mention what the heat from brazing might do to it...
Dye for Die ?
tech i worked with had to for a mall boxcar. the new coil was back ordered for months and the leak stop kept the leak slow down. it was a last ditch effort.
Perfect scenario! Thanks for the feedback. It is crazy how hard parts are to find!
After I kept getting dye on me no matter how careful I was I just stopped all together. I have a kit just in case but it's one of those last resort things.
And I've only ever had leak seal work once or twice but they were like small home refrigerators.
Excellent feedback! I appreciate you.
Ty can you or have you done a video on examples of service agreements and services offered and benefits offered?
I have not not yet done a video on that. I'm actually in the works to co-teach a class presenting that for a certain well known wholesaler.
@@love2hvac and I guess your view on it wether it’s a good business model or viewed as a scam. I’d love your take on this topic.
@@moonlightacmaintenance3232
I think when it's done correctly it benefits the customer, the company and the tech. When it's done incorrectly, it only benefits the company. Unfortunately in the sales only driven companies, the sales "gurus" , massive growth and growth only driven cultures are making an impact on our industry.
It upsets me to see these companies taking advantage of the customers, and the techs. The practice far exceeds maintenance agreements. I will see about making a video on it.
I dont like dye or any of those leak sealers either. Refrigerant and oil.....unless its 25+ years old and customer agrees that no warranty, no guarantee and not responsible for any potential damage.
don't just take verbal agreement. take it in written agreement so it covers your end tomorrow if customer decides to metoo you
@@lordjaashin yup...when i was still in resi, we had a disclaimer to sign before performing the work. Im in commercial/ industrial now and we find the leaks.....not use that snake oil crap
No tye dye for Ty
Hehe
I've heard cautionary tales of sealant destroying EEV's on minisplits
Me as well. I would only use it on a last ditch effort on old equipment
using the caulking gun style was a failure.. plunger cavitated.
I'll use leak seal on a fridge that's getting beyond economical repair...after talking to the customer and telling them there's no guarantee of success. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I do appreciate the feedback. Are these commercial or domestic fridge? Wich brand did you use?
i work on commercial, one was a 4 door counter fridge. Evap was leaking but they didn't want to pay for a replacement. The leak was what i'd call a weeper...rather than a howler! so I said to him let's give the leak sealer a go and see what happens. It's basically a hail mary, I vacced it out a bit, but obviously with a leak that's not gonna be 500 microns but you do what you can. He got me in there the other day to check it and still going strong after about 18 months...just had a dirty condenser. The stuff I use is called super seal. Had success with a few others as well. I've only ever tried it on low side leaks though. It gives the customers hope and sometime saves them spending a lot of cash on new equipment. But like I said, it's really a hail mary. And I'd like to add, that even though I've been in this trade for a few decades, I've picked up some decent tips from your vids....always learning!