Preparing your frame for a smooth & quiet ride.
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 10. 2023
- In this video, we'll walk you through the step-by-step process of getting your bike ready to build. Our expert guides will demonstrate the tools and techniques needed to remove excess paint and ensure a proper fit for your components.
Key highlights include:
🔧 Explaining the importance of facing over-painted areas.
🔧 A comprehensive overview of the essential tools and materials required.
🔧 Hands-on demonstrations for facing the headset, bottom bracket, and brake mounts.
Tools used:
Unior BSA Bottom Bracket Thread Chasing Tool
Unior BSA Bottom Bracket Facing Tool
Park Tool Headset Facing Tool
Cyclus Seatpost Reamer
Park Tool Disc Brake Facing Tool
12mm Frame Taps. 1mm, 1.25 and 1.5 - Sport
What a morning to wake up for a cup of coffee and a bit of CZcams before work and see your own frame on the Mapdec channel! Thanks to Paul and the Team over at Mapdec for getting my Ridley into racing shape for the rest of the cross season. A few more parts and she's ready to go!
Thanks Byron. Have a great season
@@robhamp9408 I would be keen to know what the good bike shops in London are. We have a lot of customers from London that come to us because all the shops in London seem to all be about sales and not service. I bet there are some hidden Jems in the city somewhere.
@@MapdecBrixton Cycles, Condor Cycles, London Field Cycles and from my Knowledge they don’t add a tooling charge!
@@robhamp9408 I bet your fun at parties. 😂.
hey Rob, it's really simple. Mapdec's workmanship is out there for all to see. That was the level of attention and care I wanted and it's what I received, in less than 3 days inc delivery. @@robhamp9408
If I thought my shop, spent this much time facing and working on my bike, I wouldn't hesitate to use them for my bike builds. Slap dash bike builds is what drove me to buying my own frames and building my bikes up myself.
How much would you be willing to pay? knowing the place you sent it to knew this should have been sent back to be rectified in the first place? I would call this profiteering?
In my area a bike build will run about $500, I would be okay with that price, if it was done to this level. However, I've been in enough of the local shops and this isn't the level they work at.@@youcandoit2502
@@youcandoit2502Spot on.
High detail bicycle builds with expensive tooling and extra time spent = high cost .
„That is a sexy break mount“…here you see the love and passion for cycling and frames 😎
I noticed that too. That’s more personal details about bike mechanic than I wanted! 😂
Excellent job. I can't imagine any bike shop in my country attempting this sort of work. They just want to slap bang things together.
We all need to change.
99% of bike mechanics in the UK are incompetent. It is really difficult to find one who knows what they are doing.
We need more perfectionists in this world.
i wish more bikeshop / mechanic like you ... thank you !
Wow,thank you
A good advertising video for Ridley.
That was a treat to see how the problems were solved. Not something your everyday enthusiast would be able to do back home in the shed with all the specialist tools required, and sort of underlines how 'little niggles' can end up being an instant showstopper for anyone attempting to build their own bike at home.
Don't let those little niggles stop you. I regularly prep people's home builds from frame milling to problematic brake bleeds to whatever. Use the local shop for stuff you're not read or able to tackle so you can focus your efforts on the parts you can do.
But that’s precisely why I would never bother with, and highly encourage ppl to leave any bike work to the pros.
There is little bevefits, and more demerits to trying to work on your own bike at home. Is your time worth that little, that you can waste it trying to sort out all these issues?
I bought a relatively humble unsophisticated frameset (Salsa Fargo) from a great bike shop here in Melbourne, and half a decade on it still runs and rides flawlessly and is a joy to rebuild and service --- all because it was chased and faced properly.
Good thing you're not using salsa handlebars
@@janeblogs324 I am. Woodchippers. The bike is the original dropbar MTB and it's designed around it: short top tube etc.
Very few shops around here have those tools, specifically the brake flat mount facer, but beyond that, I don’t know of any that would take a new bike during assembly and check all those things. Whether they’d do it for a frame build I really can’t say. From what I’ve seen, they tear off the packing, put the bars on, tighten the stem, check the wheels and fill the tires and make sure it shifts ok and out on the floor it goes, more or less. Spend as little time as possible on it I’m sure is the mantra.
If a new frame needs such refinements, it should be done, at least this is the case of the workshop I last worked at. I even got to do disc brake mount facing and BB shell reaming a few times.
Ever since then, I never look at bike builds the same way ever again.
On my alloy frames that get a carbon seatpost I always take a fine file to the seatpost collar slot on the inside and add a fine bevel, sand, and polish. Stops it cinching in on the post and cutting into it. Only takes a few minutes, but I've had two posts ceack right at that pinch point. Now it's no problem.
Top tip.
Do the same to the seatclamp and stem while you're at it
Yes, I had to do that with a steel-framed bike I bought 27 years ago, after it gouged my aluminium seatpost.
Love the attention to detail you apply to your work, thank goodness there are a few folk around that still do things properly! Sad that all the work the manufacturers put in to making the frame is spoilt by hurried finishing
This is surprisingly satisfying to watch. I understand completely the emotion of the customer wanting the work done correctly and quickly even if it costs you money versus dealing with lengthy return process and fighting customer service (likely overseas). And if Ridley quality was lacking up to this point who is to say they will get it right second time around? A customer’s time and frustration is worth something! Even if Ridley got it 100% perfect second time around how many phone calls and how much waiting?
Very true.
Loving the unior quality facing tools 🔧 👌
I'm curious as to how much that cost the customer did they bill the manufacturer 😂
Beautiful work. I dont think anyone in my area does this. Will stick with the big three from now on. Felt, Time, Look 👍
“Love that noise” POP! Ha ha ha. Awesome information once again!
Nicely done video. The ol' Ridley got the "spa" treatment 😊
Nice! Truly well sorted.
You know some folks that know me would say I am an especially anal mechanic esp when it comes to bicycles, or motorcycles. Just told me wife who I have helped build all her road bikes for the 35 plus years we have been married and riding together that you are one of very few youtubers showing even this old dog new tricks. Good job, thanks
I was trained to take as little material off as needed to provide a continuous faced circumference, which is not a broad flat full width face all the way around. By my training, the amount of material you removed from that one side of the bb was way more than appropriate, unless, of course,, doing so did not reduce the bb width to less than spec. Nice sharp, new looking tools by the way. Along the same lines, a beautiful even flat face on the brake mounts also may suggest over cutting in many circumstances. Thanks again for the show-and-tell. I may need to get one of those Unior stands. I'm NOT in love with our current park lift stand.
It would have help this video if i had used blue dycum to illustrate that gap.
Shimano bottom bracket width standard is engineered with a large variance permitted to account for manufacturing tolerance and frame preparation, +/- 0.5mm.
Very interesting. A joy to see you working with those tools.
And extra happy now with my Look 568 I have to say ;)
Haha! I hope all bike shops work like you do - with care and passion 😎💯👍
Thank you
Had it been my purchase, I would have returned the frame. Thanks again for highlighting poor standard's. We are now looking what to look out for when we are buying a frame 👍. Thanks again Team Mapdec 👍
Wow, that's amazing. Didn't even know those tools exist. You rock!
Ridley is caught up in the Wiggle marketplace mess like Pivot and Nukeproof . All aero carbon road bikes ride harsh having worked in a shop that sold them
This is very useful. I recently had a frame resprayed it now needs some of this work doing. Specifically the brake mounts as they weren’t masked
I have to say, regarding frame prep that I've just put my Vitus Razor Disc(2021) off the road for the winter (Mtb/Gravel/E-Mtb time)...I was having a damn good look at it as I cleaned it and despite this being a budget bike (it was £629 with full Sora when I got it) it has all the evidence(I think, maybe not head tube/seatpost) of being frame prepped unlike these paint covered Ridleys. The rear caliper mounts have definitely been faced(not checked the front), as has the BB shell (I noticed that when switching from the Tiagra RS500 BB to the smaller Ultegra BBR60 BB when I upgraded to 105)...The question is- has this been done because Vitus are conscientious and actually care, or was it just necessary because off the production line they weren't up to scratch??!!
I have the Vitus Substance VRS on order (I'm slowly being drawn to "gravel" purely due to road safety these days, had some horror near misses this summer) I'll be giving that a good look over when it turns up (assuming Wiggle aren't bust by the end of the week...!!)
Bike shops are generally punching the air with joy at Wiggle’s woes, but customers are still not going to buy overpriced parts from them. LBSs should provide good useful services like this.
I'm totally impressed @ you guys levels of knowledge & professionalism when it comes to bicycles 👍🏾
Thank you.
Very good vid for those who want accurate and quality finishes. Wish my LBS had had those tools
Thanks. All bike shops should have frame tools. You can’t build bikes without them.
Love to watch the attention to detail. BTW I want one of those stands in my living room where I can work in warmth and comfort. I wonder what my wife would say 🤣
Loved learning all the frame prep stuff when I did cytech. Really want to get facing tools for my own workshop but they are so expensive!
Yes, but an essential tool. Really can’t be a wrench without them.
@@Mapdec hopefully if I get enough basic servicing work I can get the tooling in and broaden what I offer :)
Having BB problem with my first Focus carbon bike, I purchased this year a TIME frameset with zero problems.
So true that this is a disappearing skill.. I tried all the shops around here in N. Lancs / S. Cumbria, the only place I found that could do my BB and headtube facing is Escape Bike shop on the A65.
We are literally in Kendal.
Like the comments at the very end too. Many shops not having things like facing tools especially in this she of mass production. P
I used sandpaper to remove paint from the caliper mount on my new frame and so I didn't touch the aluminium. I couldn't even imagine there's a special tool for that 😮
I got to use that Park Tool facing tool. Tightening the bolts upon after switching sides was super annoying. Cyclus' is way more convenient and faster imho. (Engineer, no bicycle mechanic.)
Yes, Cyclus make some great tools, A lot of these tools are accumulated over time as we need them. If I had to start over and had the budget I would choose Cyclus for a lot of things.
This video was *not* sponsored by Ridley
Brilliant work, and storytelling. Curious - I was taught by the "wise old bike mechanic" when I was a fledgling mechanic to only apply tension to the cutter while it was in motion (i.e. hold the opposing nut momentarily while turning the handle) otherwise you risk getting indentations from the cutting teeth. Any reflection on that? Thanks !! 👍
Depends on the design of the tool
Your channel is really impressive for many reasons. Ridley make good bikes (I thought), they probably wish this frame was sent back and not highlighted on your channel. I’ve noticed some issues in my head tube bottom bearing area on my brand new Orbea m30. Can’t say it affects the ride quality.
Ridley has so far ignored most of this and didn’t want the frames back. In a previous vid I showed how they paid us £250 to keep it. In another vid I gave up and tried to send it back. It took months for them to even reply.
I’ve had experience with a Ridley and had nothing but issues with the BB, was in the shop more than in my garage and eventually managed to get the store to give me a refund, felt for my dealer as they did all they could but Ridley were absolutely useless to the point they even accused me of moaning and “ just ride it” luckily my dealer backed me all the way! Shocking bike and would definitely not recommend
thanks a lot for sharing! This was very informative. I guess it takes a lot of experience to know which approach to take on certain problems (and when to stop as you indicated). Do you have tips on how to gain experience with this other than just starting the process myself? Could you list the tools you were using? Cheers!
The tools are in the description. Just practise a bit on an old frame. Take your time to measure and be precise when working.
Ridley should be doing this...... the price they think their framesets are worth and they pass the buck. Bicycle industry crooks.
How much would you expect a UK bike shop to charge for basically all you did in the video? It seems like the facing tools are all fairly specialist.
It is about an hour of time. plus some tooling costs. those tools are expenisve to buy and keep sharp.
@@Mapdec sorry for the duplicate question but how much did you charge for this?
I reckon £50 for the work plus £20 return postage...?
Without getting into the argument of whether this should've been carried out 'pre delivery' I think you'd have a sizeable queue wanting this service... Maybe you have! 👍
For reference, Park Tool brand in USD - For one single size of bike frame - about $2,500 USD just in basic tools and supplies for this one task. The knowledge and skill to use them "correctly" and in a timely manner without destroying your frame is the defining factor.
Example: There are over 20 bike shops within 45 minutes of me. Only 1 of them says they have all of the proper tools to do a legit full frame face and chase, they charge by the hour, and only one of their techs knows how. Several shops offered to do only the brake mounts at 30-50 USD "per axle". And you have to leave the bike for the day. Each and every shop told me - without seeing the bike - it was all unnecessary, it was likely just in need of adjustment. Which may usually be true, but not in my case. Misaligned and squeaking brakes, noisy bottom brackets, headsets that come loose, and noisy steering (feels like turning a pepper grinder) can all be corrected with this procedure.
@chrisb5824 - 50 quid would not be sufficient. At this level of skill and tool application, one should expect to pay 100 or more as every machined surface and thread was touched and documented, and not all frames are in as good condition as the one in the video. The amount of correction varies greatly as you go down in build quality. Yes, it should be done pre-delivery, and it is done on some higher end bikes. But time is money and profit margins are thin.
Will the bike work without this service, technically yes. Does it all work better after the procedure - definitely yes. It's not for everyone for sure, most bikes / riders won't notice or care. But for some, it's a standard process to make things work as intended, more so when using high quality parts. Well done, Mapdec Cycle Works.
I have to keep readjusting my front brake due to rub, have thought about getting the mounts checked, but not sure who if anyone deos this kinda work in my area. Cheers good vid as always.
If you ride hard, the rotors can push on the pistons, taking them out of alignment.. It might be what you are experiencing
Ask. It is work doing. Pads will last longer too.
🤔
What rotors/hub are you running and what sort of riding? I’ve had all sorts of issues with all rotors tbh Hope and Shimano although I would go with Hope over Shimano just for the fact I can run my gold rotor/hub combo
Cheers for the video/information. Your reviews are great as well.
Do you have any experience with Fairlight bikes?
Some. Not loads.
@@Mapdec Sorry, I should’ve elaborated.
Just wondered how you felt in regard to their quality? Any issues like the ones presented in this video?
I understand this is your trade so no worries if you don’t feel like commenting for whatever reason.
Cheers again 👍
Please tell me that serration is only one side of a washer, not the axle itself
If it's wrong return it. Too many manufacturers turning out substandard goods.
This is why these videos need to get more viewers. The average customer doesn't see this, they just notice when something fails sooner than it should have.
I would return it or they pay for fixing it, why should you pay?
At least it's a do it once and it's done forever thing hopefully. Might even pay for itself over time in reduced part replacement. The payback actually comes in a bike reaching its full potential. Joy forever....
How much does that workstand cost? And the rest of the tools used here? I wonder how many shops are that well equipped and know how to use the tools.
Less than the price of a Mac Pro, or a Sony Camera and lenses, or a car lift. Professionals use professional tools.
Someone should clip that blooop" moment and make it a meme 😂
Hi Paul. Just thinking. Would it be ok to just use a light coating of paint stripper remove over spray. Just thinking aloud to see if that is something a home mechanic could do.
It is about getting a flat surface, paint is just one culprit.
Moving onto carbon frames: what of these prep jobs would you expect to do on a TIME/Look frameset coming through your shop? None, but a visual inspection?
We would always inspect with gages and tools, and everything is worth checking. Time frames have been known to have a little excess lacquer near the brake mounts. Look are usually excellent, but I did have to remove a tiny bit of paint from a bb recently.
@@Mapdec thank you!
When do you have to start throwing spacers between the bottom bracket cups and frame; even if you just took away 1mm of material...its no longer 68; right? Assume there is some tolerance for this, but the spindle is a pretty rigid size.
is this took away 0.02 i would be surprised.
BSA standard permits 68mm +/- 0.5mm on width dimension.
Hi! Currently I have very little knowledge of building bikes, so could you please explain a bit the reason for doing this work, I think I missed it? If I understood correctly, the paint was preventing from fitting the parts in. But when you were flattening the sides of the bottom bracket or where the the brakes go -- this is just for a better fit? And what would be the benefits of such a better fit besides the aesthetics?
It ensures that things don’t creak or rub.
What has been your experience on Vitus frames and their quality control?
Very erratic
Can you also do this on a BB86 shell?
Yes. Different tool though. Take a look at other vids. Very important on press fit.
Oh no, not again a Ridley. Already having an ever-creaking Carbon BB386 frame and now about to order a Kanzo A for my gravel commuter. Is it only their framesets or do they also throw out fixed builds like that?
We have had to sort a few built bikes.
I just e-mailed a large local bike shop in The Netherlands, asking them if they own the mentioned tools and have the expertise to face bottom bracket, headtube and disc brake mounts of a frame.
They replied they don't have them, because they told me they never had to face a bottom bracket or headtube. Interesting..
An embarrassment to the industry. Makes me so sad. 😞
@@Mapdec It would suggest that the bikes they sell (specialized, cannondale, trek, orbea, pinarello, RIDLEY (haha), Niner, Sena) never need any facing when they leave the factory. Or they never consider to face any surface.
I’ve never done any of this to any bike I’ve built (I don’t have the tools or knowledge) and I’ve never had any issues, what exactly can occur if you don’t remove these faces etc?
Things tend to creak, rub, and wear out faster.
All the Boxshifters of the industry will be looking at this bread and butter frame prep going....Well I aint not never seen such a thying?????
Hello, you have so much experience maybe you know the answer. Does a hydraulic break hoses are the same for shimano and sram rival ? I know the fluid is different but not sure about hoses. Thx for help ✌️
Nope. Very different. Don’t mix them up.
@@Mapdecare you sure? Can't find anywhere that specifies DOT or MO use only for hoses... Neither Jagwire nor Hope hoses are listed as one or the other... Got me worried now 😎
@@chrisb5824 BH90 is a smaller internal bore and need a smaller barb. BH59 might work. Never felt compelled to try.
@@Mapdec (apologies as I'm aware this is slightly off topic..) Done some quick calls/research - Shimano ID 2.3mm, Hope 2.2mm, and SRAM 2.1mm. Apparently the hose is ok for DOT or MO - just never reuse a hose for a different oil... live and learn 👍
@@Mapdecoh, and just in case you're wondering why - I'm wanting to use the excellent UK made Hope calipers on my road bike so need to combine with either Shimano or SRAM shifters... Compatibility raises it's ugly head!
3:52 that tool is better machined and finished than that entire bike frame.
Sad for the money of these frame they are made so poorly
How much would this sort of work cost?
An hour plus a tooling charge is normal.
@@MapdecHow much is that? 😂 thanks for the underwhelming response but that leads me to believe not all is good here. #deepdive
Our hourly rate is £50 an hour. All ok here thanks@@youcandoit2502
@@Mapdecthanks for the reply 👍 does that include the up charge for using cutters?
Do these steps change at all with titanium frames? I don't see much in the way of Ti on this channel - I know Ti is brutal on abrasives but I'm curious if it plays nice with cutters/reamers/facers
Your videos make me afraid of ordering a frame for building it up diy 😄
Oh. Quite the opposite. Now you can be more confident in what to look for and check before you build.
I'm especially afraid of BB and disc brake face imperfections @@Mapdec - makes me think twice of ordering an ali express frame in order to make use of warranty claims that dont require me to ship back and forth around the world.
I love your videos and they taught me so many things to look at
This is disgraceful to be honest. Should have sent the thing back!!.
This seems to be the norm, rather than the exception with Ridley frames, unfortunately.
@@MrSchattkacan confirm
@@MrSchattka To my knowledge, Ridley once started their business by.... Painting frames... Rgr
Exactly! I will give this one the benefit of doubt before breaking down the cost vs sending back. I’m awaiting a response to cost but I feel a little ghosting is going on unfortunately. I like the videos but one thing that’s lacking is the cost to put things right. Why send a frame from London and the back to face the head tube, bottom bracket and brake mounts? I know plenty of good bike shops in London that could do this for a £100 max. Some might say you have an axe to grind with Ridley and profiteering? I would be happy to be proved wrong though!
@@borano2031 Ridley have been in the UK market for over 15 years, first by rebranding frames such as Rondelli (Ron Spencer Cycles) then some Vitus models to my knowledge amongst other brands.
I can't believe they didn't return it!
WHAT? No Ridley response so far???😮
Not to any of our problems. So disappointing.
The owner of that frame should have personally brought it back and vented in front of other customers, that frame is a disgrace. From what I have seen in build quality evaluations, Look are the only ones consistently producing excellence.
I’m afraid you have to question why the need of sending the frame across the country to sort these issues, I know the tools are shiny but I’ve worked at 8
Shops across London with the same ones albeit a bit dirtier 😂 BC have one of the best tool chests in the UK
Ridley is a Belgian bike company. I don’t think travelling to a factory in Belgium from the UK would really have had much impact.
Why is this still happening I would have sent it back are manufacturers get complaint quality control is rubbish
I'm guessing this whole frame is just worth like 400 Bucks new😱
Much more than that these days.
Branded company with AliExpress kind of frame finishing 😂
Assume Ridley paid the customer for your time sorting the frame out just shocking really
I am astonished how poor quality the product is
You forgot to ad that nearly no customers are willing to pay for that work.
Really? We do this a lot. Admittedly we do it as required when we encounter a poor fit causing an issue.
@Mapdec, What sort of Money would you charge for that work?
I agree, I would like my frame cleaned/Faced correctly when purchasing. If I need to add a cost onto the build then it’s going back or I would expect a refund! I’m sorry but it’s just not acceptable
in 2030 they may sell us a frame with no bb hole,so we can drill what ever we like. wtf!
While bike manufacturers need to do better, the fact that these reaming, etc tools exist and (good) bike shops use them, suggests this has always been so. Again, I'm not excusing the manufacturers here.
Before the days of mass production every bike shop would use these. Bikes would need to be assembled at a shop. Now, the factories are expected to do it, but don’t. Bikes come pretty much assembled, and so bike shops don’t then dissemble to put things right.
@Mapdec good insight, thanks. So what we have is an evolving industry where the mfr has become dominant and assumed greater share of the value creation, but not the responsibilities that come with it. I also feel that consumers are part of the problem - we're too easily wowwed by marketing and glamously shaped frames and components and that's enough for many of us.
I'm also guessing that anyone watching your videos probably isn't one of those consumers I just mentioned.
The real question is: why isn't that done in the factory? It's all made in China where labour is cheaper. They have scale. It doesn't make sense to pay top dollar for a frame and then pay top dollar for your bike shop to work on a brand new frame. It's just sloppy manufacturing.
They rely on that cheap labour for quality control too. Or rather the brands push the factories on price, and the factories just respond by doing a cheaper job.
When exactly did the world start expecting metal frames to be all faced and chased in the box? Back in the day when I worked in a shop nothing was and everything needed it. It didn't matter the brand or cost everything needed it.
When I see complaints about this it seems to me to be bitching about doing your job.
When frames like this cost £1200 and are sold direct to consumers.
I've seen that unior electric lift somewhere before. AH YES I'VE GOT TWO in my workshop. Very good indeed and made by someone intelligent. With a USB charger port and the electric wire coming from above instead of under your feet. Good bit of kit for RRP of €3399.oo
Amazing. Best investment ever.