Band of Brothers Episode 8 'The Last Patrol' REACTION!!
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2021
- Easy Company is in Hagenau in February 1945, where they prepare for a night patrol mission to capture German prisoners. The patrol includes one veteran who is despised for missing Bastogne and a new lieutenant fresh out of West Point. Here's our reaction to episode 8 of Band of Brothers.
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Guys please do Hacksaw Ridge next it's a great movie telling the true story of MEDIC Desmond Doss who won a medal of honour even though he refused to pick up a gun. Its directed by Mel Gibson and I know you will both love it and be awe struck also at the end similar to band of brothers there are interviews with his real comrades
If y’all enjoyed this y’all would really like the other hbo mini series called the pacific! It’s about 2 marines perspective of the war against Japan!! It’s really good!
More than 2 actually.
plz. in the last episode wen you get to know who is who. get us on YT the full reaction of this part. (not full episode but this part will be great). thx
@@genghisgalahad8465 oh yeah you’re right, mainly 3 marines.
I don't think your take on Webster is fair. You seem to ignore that he had been through a lot with the group as well. He had been with them far longer than he had been away. It's not like D-day and Market Garden were walks in the park. The entire reason he had been gone was that he was wounded in Arnhem just after Market Garden. He had also been wounded a few days after D-day but requested to rejoin the unit shortly after. He had been through a lot of combat with them, and one of his closest friends in the unit was killed in Bastogne. He was well aware of the losses they had taken, but not aware of how bitter some of them had become because of it or that some of that would be directed at him for being gone. It's not like he tried to get shot.
The show overdramatized it, but he did write in his memoirs about being treated as a replacement when he first came back. That faded pretty quickly and he was accepted back into the group, but imagine going through D-day with guys and having them treat you like you were some new guy who had never seen combat. He was awarded a bronze star, but I couldn't find more details on what battle it was from, plus the two purple hearts. Several officers also wanted him to be promoted to squad leader but he always refused.
Edit: Nikki mentions other guys "breaking out of the hospital" to rejoin the group. He did that when he was able the first time he was wounded. The second time was more severe. His leg was pretty badly injured. He was physically unable to return earlier. It's not like every wound is the same. Sometimes it's just a matter of fighting through the pain. Other times some real damage has been done and you aren't physically capable of doing what you need to do so you'd be a liability to the group if you returned. They might let you "break out" of the hospital if they felt you were still in fighting shape, but if you were injured too badly to perform your duties they weren't going to let you go back and put people in jeopardy for your pride.
For what it's worth, I agree with almost everything you said, but I (respectfully) disagree with your opening statement. These two are only responding to the episode they've just seen; which, as you've accurately pointed out, was embellished quite a bit for the sake of drama (and understandably so). They haven't yet had the opportunity to read up on, or learn more about, the more in-depth backstories of what really went down in regards to Webster and his relationship with the rest of E Company. (Again, I mean no disrespect to your opinion, I'm just voicing my own)
@@AMacLeod426 No worries. Your comment isn't disrespectful at all. Quite the opposite, especially for the CZcams comments. It's a fair point. I thought the episode did okay with mentioning a couple of times what he had been through with them, but you're right they are just going off the episode without extra information so it's understandable they interpreted it a bit different. I didn't mean to come off as overly critical of them. It just seemed like they sort of brushed off all he had been through with them because he missed some time due to being wounded pretty badly. Mostly just trying to add some info, not be critical of their reaction to a dramatized version of it.
@@davebcf1231 I thought it was a great dramatic device to kinda reintroduce the audience via Webster to the men after what they’d been through in Bastogne and their state of mind and weariness. They had more fights even after Foy and it’s almost a jump to the episode of The Last Patrol. His fresh faced cheer and newness though was a sharp contrast to their weariness and having to explain to one of their own guys what happened to the others whom they lost in the Ardennes. I wouldn’t have minded say George Luz narrating the events as Major Horton or Sink.
@@davebcf1231 Totally agree. I love these two, but yes, I was saying “poor Web!”. I’m sure we’re all grateful that he wrote that memoir…
I was thinking the same thing. They are going based off the episode of course, so its understandable. His memoir was very important to what became Band of Brothers. Also, I think Web served in the Island battle, which was also pretty brutal (I might be wrong about that)...so he had def seen enough combat.
One thing to keep in mind, is Webster was changed a little for dramatic purposes in this episode. He wrote in his memoirs that when he returned to Easy Company, he almost cried when he saw how depleted it was and how many of the guys he'd been through the war with were gone.
He was a writer and I realized this afterward in the portrayal of his character. This series always brings up something new and insightful about the real history it’s based on!
Also thanks to his writing, (among other factors and variables from the other men in the company) helped to tell and save the stories of the men and company.
Thx for the heads up on this. I rly disliked how they treated him on his return. I'm glad to find thats just drama bs they added
@adam loring well dang....thats rly sad :/
@adam loring passive aggressive spoilers out here again. That was too aggressive on my part. My bad. I guess with the narration...then again, there’s no need at this point to add more names. Need a cut off.
Webster came from a rather wealthy background, and probably could have been an officer if he wanted. This is why they call him “professor” and “college boy”. Instead, he signed up as an enlisted man. He wanted to experience war from the point of view of the lowest ranked soldier, so he could document it. He wrote a few books after the war, and a lot of the material for the show is taken from one of his books.
Edit: regarding your question at end about ranks. There are two main categories of soldiers. Officers, and Enlisted Men (people). Officers have a commission, which typically requires a university degree. The commission is basically the authority from the state to give lawful commands. If an officer of a superior rank issues a lawful command, the command must be followed, or face a court marshal for failing to comply.
Basically, the officers are the leaders, and the enlisted soldiers make up the bulk of the force. Any rank of officer is superior to any rank of enlisted soldier, meaning the lowest ranking officers have authority over the highest ranking enlisted soldier.
Enlisted ranks go: Private 2nd Class, Private 1st Class, Corporal, Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant 1st Class, Master Sergeant, First Sergeant, Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major.
Enlisted ranks of Sergeant and higher are sometimes called Non-Commissioned Officers, or “NCOs”, or “Non-Comms”. In episode 5, just before Moose gets shot, winters tells him to “listen to your Non-Comms”.
The officer ranks go: 2nd Lieutenant, 1st Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel, then 1 through 5 star generals. Officer ranks of Captain and below are known as “Junior Officers”, while Major and higher are known as “Senior Officers”.
A company like Easy Company would consist of roughly 100 soldiers, led by an officer, usually a Captain (Sobel, then Winters, then Spiers). The Company Commanding Officer (the “CO”) will have a leadership staff of a few high ranking NCOs, including a 1st Sergeant (Lipton, sometimes called the “2IC”, or 2nd In Command). The company is split into 3-4 platoons (when you hear soldiers talk on the radios or phones and say “Easy Red” or “Easy White”, Red and White are the radio names of two of Easy Company’s platoons). Each platoon is lead by an officer, usually a Lieutenant (Buck Compton, or Jones in Episode 9). The platoon leader will have his own staff consisting of one or two ranking Sergeants (Bull in episode 4, or Malarky in Episode 9). Each platoon is divided into 3-4 Squads. Each squad is usually lead by a Sergeant, and consists of a mix of corporals and privates. A company of roughly 100 soldiers will have 5-6 officers, the rest are all NCOs and Enlisted soldiers.
What catches a lot of people out when learning about the ranking structure is the ages involved. Typically, 2LTs and LTs are in their early to mid 20s, and regardless of age, have no experience when assigned to a unit. They are placed in command of a platoon, which consists of Sergeants who can be well into their 30s, and vastly more experienced. Even many of the corporals will have more time in the service than most LTs. Captains are usually in their 30s.
The basic theory is that the young officers have all the schooling, have read all the books, understand all the theory, and are ultimately saddled with the burden of making the final decisions. It’s also their name on the dotted line if things go wrong. The veteran NCOs have all the practical experience. The officers and NCOs combine their brainpower and leadership skills to lead the soldiers. Good officers listen to the council of their NCOs and take their experience into account when making decisions.
The officers decide what to do and when to do it, the NCOs make sure the soldiers are ready to their jobs (NCOs usually oversee and conduct most forms of training and practice), and then make sure the job is done properly.
The officer rank ladder and the Enlisted rank ladder are not really one linear rank ladder. Rather, they’re more like two parallel rank ladders (with opportunity to cross over in certain situations, Lipton being a special and rare example of one method). Jones getting promoted had nothing to do with the rest of the men of Easy company, he didn’t “take” a promotion from one of the Easy veterans.
Last thing I guess. While it’s true that the lowest ranking officer has authority over the highest ranking NCO, I can’t think of any practical situations where a low ranking officer would be issuing orders to a Command Sergeant Major. If they happen to walk past one another in uniform, then the NCO has to salute the officer, but they are saluting the commission, not the person holding it. Of course the junior officer must return the salut, again, purely for the symbolism and meaning, not because of the person doing the action. Rank is one thing, but there is definitely a culture of “respect your elders and those with more experience” in the military.
The Navy and Air Force use the same basic rank structure, but with different names for many of the ranks. The split between the number of officers vs the number of enlisted soldiers is different as well. Both of these branches tend of have more officers, mostly due to the complexity of, and command authority required, to operate the various machines involved.
Very good comment. Regarding saluting: the junior initiates the salute, but the senior returns it. Respect should flow both up and down the chain of command.
And the spoiler. You could edit it out. Just leave it be the wiki/essay/history until after they complete the series, you know? But definitely awesome comprehensive information and precise explanation wiki-worthy! Just hoped it was more vague as far as the where the characters end up to avoid any kinds semi-spoilers as much as possible...
I only talked about things they’ve seen up to this point.
@@albinorhino6 yes, sort of. Though I guess it’s fine. Seeing as how we get the episode. And there are always more surprises to come.
Thank you for this. I sort of had an understanding of the ranks, though I wasn’t aware of the whole CO and NCO thing. But I’ve always wondered what the difference was between a company, platoon and squad.
Lt Jones knew what to do in those moments because he was trained to know. Certain things, like securing a cross road, setting up a defensive position, etc, are all taught & practiced ad nauseum. Things like judgement, and knowing what to do in non-tactical problems is part of leadership training.
Oh, the look on Lt. Jones' face when Winters ordered the fake patrol was not disappointment. It was quiet surprise at seeing a side of leadership that isn't in the manual.
It was a pretty complex journey that expression: disappointment (maybe?) to then realization of not just going by the book. A great commander knows when to break the rules! I loved it!
You need to watch the extended interview documentary with them, it is just as good as the show!
And an essential miniseries epilogue! It got me and helped me! You know what I’m talking about.
Haha I'm re-reading Gates of Fire right now. Just saw your username!
Thissssss!
It makes it so much more powerful!
It's called we stand alone together. It's on youtube for free. It came in the box set I bought back when this came out
I like the subtlety of Colin Hanks' acting towards the end, when Winters gives the orders to fake a patrol. He's shocked, but gives a little nod, like, "Yeah, now that I've been in the shit, I get it." Like, he witnessed genuine leadership, and appreciated the lesson.
I love that they gave him that reaction shot to work with. I always got that he appreciates that not everything is done by the book. Winters trusts him to understand that the higher ups are playing their game and he is playing his, for his men.
Gotta give Webster a fucking break. He was with them through training and Normandy. Those were his friends but he missed one of the hardest parts of the war. You got a glimpse of what they went through but Webster had no idea. Jesus.
True they compare him to popeye but popeye got shot through the butt…. Relatively easy to heal wound as long as it doesn’t get infected. I can’t remember exactly but Webster’s wounds were more serious plus pop eye snuck out while Easy was still in the area…. By the time Webster was mobile he was likely back in England how the hell is he going to bust out there cross the channel and hike his way to Bastogne?
I read Webster's memoirs...I think it was there I read that when he volunteered, all he wanted to be was a private throughout his service (he was from a wealthy family in Bronxville, NY; could have probably wrangled something better), and that he'd never volunteer for anything - just do what was asked of him and observe the rest. Probably this is why he didn't try to get back to the company quicker like Wynn and others - he was going to go where they told him when they told him, nothing more, nothing less. Webster's book is also the best place to get a sense of who was actually in which platoon, who were the squad leaders, etc. I've been searching for roster of the structure of Easy by platoon for a while and nothing seems to be out there.
@@markpekrul4393 a big clue to Webster’s distance with the rest of easy Company (bedsides missing Bastogne) is HINTED at in the post patrol scene with the drunk trooper calling him “College Boy”…. This will be expanded on in the next episode with his conversation with Liebgott.
And I may be projecting but as a German American who comes from Hessian and Pennsylvania Dutch Stock there might be another source of friction:
Sgt Martin’s comment “you speak German, don’t you???”
Anyone who has seen the movie U-571 are dimly aware that soldiers who speak German Fluently and are NOT Jewish were look at with understandably suspicion. Webster’s being an intellectual and speaking German without being Jewish would have distance himself from other troopers, particularly those who family were recent (Roughly two generations) immigrants from lands now occupied by Nazi Germany. I Know during that period my family stressed the Irish and Bohemian heritage encompassed less than 1/4 of my ancestors.
@@MrSheckstr I believe Webster was shot in the leg. Probably quite a nasty wound that required rehabilitation.
@@MrSheckstr Well the " drunk soldier" called Coob (the same that in ep. 4 pestered the new replacements that were in Bull's platoon), if you watch closely you will see in the departure of Easy company, see Coob getting in a Jeep with the MP, because he was caught drunk on duty and he did try to do some shit against a superior officer and the MP's too him, he later got discharged from the army with disgrace (and for a former soldier it's NOT good if you want to find a job...).
The actor David Niven fought in World War II, and famously refused to ever talk about it despite typically being so witty and gregarious on just about every other subject. He explained this by saying he'd gone to see the massive grave of soldiers who'd been killed at Bastogne, and said to himself "Here are 27,000 reasons that you should keep your mouth shut."
It's something you hear a lot (and it's talked about in the BoB documentary); there are many cases in which the men got married and had kids, and they didn't talk about their war experience with their family; some didn't even know their father had served.
The adrenaline pumping through your system in times of extreme crisis burns those memories into your brain. I hear it again and again: "I can see it now, just the same I can see you sitting in front of me."
Similar for James Doohan ("Scotty" of Star Trek), one of may WW II veterans who became profound actors.
As good guys or bad guys, they all protrayed BAMFs because they were BAMFs in real life.
David Niven was exceptional!
My uncle John joined the British Army on the 30th March 1939, he served throughout the war and on through to Korea, he was in the Royal Engineers and was in Africa and Italy finishing in Austria, he never spoke about what he went through in any detail but he did suffer from nightmares for the rest of his life.
@@RushfanUK Same with my grandfather, who I've talked about here before. He never went into any detail about his time in World War II and Vietnam, beyond showing us the piece of flack that gave him his Purple Heart, which he called Hitler's Christmas present since it happened in December. On the other hand, my other grandfather who fought in Korea is quite happy to share stories about it.
@@douglasstrother6584 Christopher Lee, Dracula, BAD ASS military record.
Roy Cobb (the drunk soldier) was court marshaled for his conduct after leaving Hageneau, which is why we see him with a group of MP’s at the end of the episode
Was Cobb the one who tipped the boat, and did he do it deliberately?
Looking closely, it seems like one of the guys on the last boat practically throws himself off.
He was a lucky guy though. He was hit by aa flak during Dday 1 so he never jumped, thus ensuring he will be safe. In a raid in one of the towns in France (Episode), a German tank cannon took out the concrete wall he was hiding behind. It got destroyed but he positioned himself near the house so he was not hit. And lastly here, his boat capsized so he and 3 others came back early.
The series apparently portrays him a little too negatively. He was apparently quite popular with the other men. He was also a lifer. He'd joined the army before the war and was one of the few by DDay in the unit who had already seen action having served in North Afrika. It also means that he was probably also suffering from a bit of combat fatigue way before any of the other men.
@@GK-yi4xv Well yeah man they're actors who have been told to fall into the water, they would throw themselves off.
Speaking of Cobb and boats, this is never mentioned in the show but he had already seen combat in North Africa before D-Day, and his transport ship was torpedoed and sank on its way back. For some reason they chose to portray him very negatively in the show. Webster comments in his writings about how likable Cobb was
Lipton did not, in fact, get to go home. He was promoted to 2nd Lieutenant, meaning that, in order for his commission as an officer to be valid, he had to be discharged from his service as an enlisted man (NCOs and under; non-officers).
Yup. Most of them went home though after the war.
Fact about this episode. In Webster's own book Easy didnt really criticize "Him" for his absence during bastogne. Infact they are glad and relief that he and the rest wasn't there because they dont want to see more of their comrades die in the battlefield. They just did that to give the show a little drama. But i really salute the "Actors" because they really did a great job portraying how much they've been truamatised and changed after bastogne. Honestly all the Actors did a really great performance not just in portraying the Easy Men throughout the series.
Lt. Jones was neither liked or hated by Easy Co. he was seen as the usual “fresh off the boat” type but never really gave any excuse for the men to hate him. After the patrol, he was viewed with a bit more respect, seen as someone who was capable and had the potential to be an effective combat leader.
Horrible shame he was killed later in a car accident in Germany.
He never actually went on the patrol though.
@@jonttul Yeah he did
Lt. Jones did what all good officers fresh from the factory should do.
He let his experienced NCOs lead the men, while still making a useful contribution to the unit.
Too many junior officers come out of training thinking they know everything, and quickly learn that training rarely resembles the real thing.
If you fail in training you get a failing grade, and a chance to do it all again. Fail in the real thing and people die, they get inured, and there are no do overs.
Yes, the officer is the senior rank and should lead the unit, but relying on the experience of those under you is a valid command style.
Winters, Speirs, etc had an advantage over those that came after them, in that they had no one more experienced under them and no-one to be compared against.
@@davebeattie9573 I agree. In a professional setting if you see a junior Officer walking around, they are usually with a 1SG or CSM as their counterpart. If they're smart they'll learn from those Upper Echelon experiences.
That is sad. I thought he survived the war.
Lipton didn't get to go home there. He had to be discharged as a non-commissioned officer (first sergeant) in order to accept his commission as an officer (second lieutenant). I'm pretty sure they all were in "for the duration."
And Harry came back! Didn't realize an actual resignation as an NCO needed to be made to become a CO, 2nd Lieutenant! Learn something new!
Enlisted men can't/don't resign. He would have been discharged and then commissioned as a 2LT.
@@mdpetty53 Yes. Discharged. I used the wrong word. Thanks.
@@fester2306 makes more sense to me now. Scratching my head over resigning in the midst of war. Especially after episode one. Get!
Yep. After 24:05 : “1st Sergeant Lipton, your honorable discharge as an enlisted man, and battlefield commission as a 2nd Lieutenant..”
I know you think he's inappropriate but you have to understand that he has been with these soldiers ever since D-Day, and the reason he's asking is because he wants to know where his friends are.
he's not a new replacement he was there from the start but got hit and needed to be in the hospital because of it.
if you remember, he was the one that gave chocolate to the little kid in Holland.
he has to get around to understand what the situation is, so that have been put himself in place.
Hey, don't go hating on my boy Webster. He's great. One of my favourite characters. You guys are turning into Easy company, too wary of outsiders. You gave poor Lt. Jones a tough time as well.
Sorry, Jackson. Understandable and it's an earnest actually reaction. You get to learn more and more as series goes along. It's an excellent series how they tell it!
lot of source material for this episode comes from Webster's book ... that's why its bit focused on him and he narrates it
Web was actually one of the most dedicated soldiers in Easy Company. It’s important to remember even if he left the hospital they were surrounded at Bastogne, he couldn’t have linked up with them
"June 6th? D day huh? *laughs*" that is the most accurate description I've heard of a grunts response.
When you are done the series, you have to watch the documentary called We Stand Alone Together which is part of the series .It has all of the people that speak in the beginning of the shows and shows you who everyone is. For some reason no one else has bothered to review, check it out.
It’s essential viewing! And I realize for me, it helps so much especially this one part! I think you know which one! No guess until they’re done. So needed!
As is The Pacific
Webster was the guy who was injured by German artillery fire in Episode 5 ("They got me! Can you believe I actually said that?"). He was thus out of action for four months before rejoining Easy Company at Haguenau.
Lt. Jones wasn't immediately promoted. He graduated West Point on D-day, about 7 months earlier. During wartime, officers tend to advance faster, based on experience. Jones already had experience, and then those patrols gave him combat points. Because he was from West Point, they wanted him at regiment command. With that goes a promotion.
Right. I think he had connection too. Not saying he was abusing them. just that people were looking out for him. I think the plan for him was to stick him in a combat unit until he got his feet wet then promote him out of there. To the powers that be, they were checking a box for Jones, combat experience. With out combat experience, promotions stop at a certain point. I U.S. army had the ability to look ot the future. Jones was apart of that future so they were guiding him. Then the poor guy was killed by a drunk. Could be that Jones would have accepted staying in Easy company. They sure could have used him.
There are definitely officers that get fast tracked, whether that's from knowing someone, being a Ring Knocker (West Pointer) just from being a good officer or some combination thereof. My very first platoon leader was definitely fast tracked. West Pointer but also a hard charger and excellent PL.
@@dirus3142 many/most people who graduate West Point will have some sort of connections. Lt Jones had got the experience he needed and was promoted up the ranks as all West Point grads would.
not to be the millionth guy to recomend reacting to The Pacific after this show but as someone whos great grandfather served in the pacific front i feel its important to learn about that front of the war as well
Hope they react to it
And generation kill to top the HBO war trilogy off
Of the most contemporary films…. Private Ryan, band of brothers, flags of our fathers, the Pacific… more or less in that order…. Each one prepares your for what you are gonna see in the next one without lessening the visceral impact of it
With foresight of knowledge it’s understandable while everyone is freezing Webster out and treating him like a replacement, but from another point of view it’s unfair. Prior to Bastogne members of easy company that were injured and came back were welcomed quite warmly but Bastogne is just different…. Miss that and you lose everything….
I would say The Pacific for sure first next, THEN Flags of Our Fathers/Letters from Iwo Jima back to back. And hopefully the dramatized based in true events The Great RAID and maybe even the fictional drama of war, Enemy at the Gates.
Webster came from a pretty wealthy family and could have been made an officer. He instead decided he would be a regular private. He also said he would do what he was ordered to do. He was offered promotions during the war, but turned them down. He was going to do what was required of him, but he didn't go out an volunteer a lot. That's why he was in the hospital that long. He basically went through the process the army had for people that had been wounded.
Fair he missed "some" hard battles. BUT he was there on D-Day, he was there on Marketgarden, those two battles are well enough for a lifetime. Yet, he comes back.
I understand the squad rejecting change, permanence is important when random death is a daily occurence.
You're wrong about Lt. Jones; at least as portrayed here, he clearly approves of Winters' command decision here; especially having seen these men in action. From what is said about from West Point at the time he had the potential to be as good a leader as Winters, but was killed in an accident early in the occupation of Germany after the war. Because they wanted Webster to be on the patrol, for dramatic purposes too, as he was the narratorm because much of the episode was based on his memoirs, he was seen there, but in fact he was on the other bank waiting with the rest of the regiment for the whistle to be blown. He volunteered despite having an out because he was at Harvard; refused to be an officer despite his parents wishes and requested a transfer to Easy Company after D-Day (think he was in Fox Company before that), kerk
I cannot say enough just how grateful I am to you both for emphasizing how important it is to know this history, and how appreciative you are of those who served. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make this series required viewing in high schools. Bless you for giving it the attention and respect it deserves.
"Colonel Sink says he's not happy with the appearance of your uniform says it's not beffitng to your rank"
"Oak Leaves"
*salute*
"Congratulations MAJOR"
"😶 say sike rn"
say sike rn?
colin hanks nod was a nod of understanding/realization and not disagreement.
Legend has it that Jones’ dad served with the 2nd Rangers Battalion on D-Day at Omaha Beach, Dog Green Sector, and went on a mission to save a paratrooper from the 101st, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment: A Private James F. Ryan from Iowa. Dad was also a Red Devil!
I heard he also served in the French military, as well ;-)
I heard his dad also served in the German military, got captured by an american patrol but was too far gone to be taken across the river and was left on the riverbank screaming.
His dad also fought U-boats in the Battle of the Atlantic
@@gregall2178 that’s right! The French Resistance!
@@griechland no doubt yelling for Wilson!
Leiutenant Henry Jones was with Easy Company longer than this episode implied. And the reason why he was promoted was because the Army leadership recognized that the war was almost over, and the draftees were going to be heading home and they needed career soldiers like Jones in leadership positions so that when the draftees went home, there would still be professional soldiers in place.
Webster's book about his time in WW2 is super interesting. As he is not only intelligent but he is critical of the whole thing. He questions certain moves and I think if you really want to know more about how it was for US soldiers in the European theatre his book is a good start. He is one of my favourite characters in this mini-series because I feel like he's a reliable narrator.
Also, please do not take movies and tv shows as your only sources of information about history, especially war. This tv show does a great job at showing a specific US experience, but a lot is left out. It's still remarkable because 20 years ago when this came out, many Hollywood movies never really made an attempt to show the "enemy" as humans as well. Here, they show us little moments of German soldiers and you even hear the veterans talking about them thinking they might have been friends in different circumstances.
Lipton wasn't going home, he was getting promoted. But to be promoted from NCO to Co he had to be discharged first and then reinstated.
He had pneumonia.
@@genghisgalahad8465 That has nothing to do with anything
@@Tensen01 but it does. It does, Tensen, it does.
It may have been a bit awkward when Webster was asking about the guys who were not there after he came back, but I think it was only natural. When you re-join your brothers in arms and some are missing, you're naturally going to ask about them, and he wouldn't have magically known what had happened until someone told him. On the other hand, if he returned from the hospital and didn't ask about the guys who were no longer there, the others could have said "So Webster you never asked about Guarnere or Joe Toye, etc. don't you care about them?"
21:22 The third prisoner you can hear is actually Tom Hanks
Promotions during war are given on the basis of need, performance and availability. In a Battalion strength combat unit Lieutenants had the highest attrition rate as they were the ones leading the combat platoons. So, there must have been a need for more 1st LTs in Jones case. Maybe he had a very good rating in his pro/con score which made him desirable. In Liptons case the same scenario would have played out plus the recommendation of all of his superior officers that Lip is qualified. In the Marine Corps we called a jump from enlisted ranks to officers rank "Mustanging it". Didn't happen very often! The skipper of my unit was a "Mustang"and as the Vietnam war was drawing to an end those that were "Mustangs" were reduced in rank to the position of "Warrant Officer".
To answer Nikki's question about regular officer's training vs. West Point graduates, the difference is simply in the type (and amount) of coursework. Officers like Nix and Winters got their commissions because of their competency during training. They took a few extra classes while also going through the same PT as every other paratrooper at Jump School. Academies like West Point were essentially the same level of PT, but with a university campus to have more classes.
Those classes will detail military history, reviewing tactics used in past battles, and running theoretical tactics, literally tabletop wargaming. Despite graduating from a prestigious academy, a lack of combat experience made Jones an unknown (and potential liability) to the rest of the company. However, his training and discipline allowed him to keep the men from really screwing up their mission. You can't question a prisoner if he's dead.
One more note. Eugene is a kindred spirit. Army Doc. I was a Navy Corpsman, Doc. Doc's job is to save when we can, ease the passing when we can't. Be it morphine, or simply being there when they need us most. When they call to God or Mom, they look to us to ease their pain. Many times it has already been taken out of Doc's hands by the time they get there. Doc panicking won't help their patients in the moment.
When I went through Corps School , a living Corpsman MOH recipient told our class "You won't know heartbreak until you look a man in the eyes when he asks "Am I gonna make it?" And you have to lie". Years later I can truly say there is truth in that statement.
My dad arrived in England the day after D-Day and spent the summer training. He was in the 508th Regt. of the 82nd Airborne and made thirteen jumps all together. He injured his legs during a training jump. He and another guy left the hospital to rejoin his unit and jump into Holland ( as shown in The Replacements ). He fought there and on through the Battle of the Bulge and into Germany. After the war he and my mom put two and two together when she told him about hearing on the radio about two guys going awol from the hospital to rejoin their unit.
West Point is four years of college and those guys are usually promoted quicker, though not as quick in this case. I'm sure they were short of officers all around by that time. Lt. Jones had time to train after graduating, so that put him in action pretty late in the war. It was the guys who went through Officer's Candidate School, otherwise referred to as ninety day wonders, that my dad said nobody trusted. They were often younger and less mature than the West Point guys.
hey, give some respect to our fancy harvard boy Webster, I don't why you're being so harsh on him.
You were harsh on Webster .. He's the character I most identify with (we all have one don't we?) .. He is a Tacoa man, a volunteer since the start. He jumped on D-Day .. He Jumped into Holland where he was wounded in combat He is a translator and a hero in my eyes. He could not help getting wounded. Loving your reactions you are invested in the show, not distracted or making childish comments. Good stuff.
This episode resonate quite a lot with me, as I live like 20 minutes away from the town of Haguenau, and there are a lot of stories from the war in my family. Can't imagine what these people lived through
Great reaction and Happy belated Fathers Day Steven 👍
You guys NEED to watch the end documentary where they interview all of them! It’s on CZcams!!!!!!
We Stand Alone Together. Must see.
MUST see... Especially since Nikki has expressed her love for the interview footage
The Lieutenant may not have actual combat experience but he just spent 4 years studying advanced tactics and other training to hopefully prepare him as much as possible and have the Sergeants teach him the rest
My grandfather was a 25 year old sgt with a 1 year old daughter at home he hadn't met yet. As his division pushed further into Germany months after Germany surrendered, they still ran into pockets of German resistance. To have made it through the war only to die now was the scariest time for him. He never talked about the war. Ever. At his wake his brother told my mother why. His platoon passing through a small town when a 13 year old Hitler youth came out of now where firing wildly at his squad. My grandfather shot the kid. While they waited for the medic to catch up to them my grandfather held the boy, giving him water from his canteen. The boy died in his arms. He never, ever got over that.
At the time frame that this episode was drawn from yes respect was hard earned, taught by a very hardcore teacher. However Lt. Jones did walk into combat knowing full well the life expectancy of a newbie lieutenant ( about 1 week). That he followed orders, helped complete the mission & survived did earn a tiny measure of respect from the veterans. But they were very, very tired of seeing young, full of potential men brutally slain both physically and mentally.The promotion got him out of combat with maybe a slim chance of getting home intact. In other words they gave him a chance to know hell and never have to wonder if he was good enough to face what he had been working for in the last 4 years of college, combat. So what that promotion did was show him a compassion that maybe he didn’t fully understand but that eased these veterans conscience. This act was done all over the front lines near the end of the war. One of the veterans said it earlier in the episodes , when asked why they didn’t get along with the replacements, “Gosh we just didn’t like seeing them getting killed!”
I watch this series and wonder; how do we even begin to thank those brave men who saved not just this nation, but the world from tyranny?
By never forgetting, watching Shows like this and talking about it over and over I think is the bare minimum....
We should be bettering ourselves as a nation, because they fought so our country's liberties would be protected. Unfortunately, we've been straying so far from that with the big split between the rich and the poor and protests and turmoil occurring within our own borders.
I'm glad you specified liberties. It hits close Mr to home and American history than "freedom" does somehow. I dunno why. Maybe because "freedom" has become a kinda cynically appropriated tag line nowadays? And lost its meaning somehow? When rights are being trampled on and all kinda of rights violations are happening?
If I'm not mistaken, the "wounded german" screaming is apparently the cameo of Tom Hanks :p
Tom Hank had a Cameo in Episode 'Crossover' hes in the scene when the Brits are celebrating their survival. I didn't know til I was told too
@@jpolk8390 I didn't know! Cheers for telling! =D
@@jpolk8390 *Crossroads
Yelling about discovering or creating fire 🔥 because he was stuck on that island?
@@jpolk8390 Also, he's in Why We Fight.
Lt Jones is Colin Hanks, Tom Hanks son
I am a US Army veteran, We had a sayung in the army
"What is the difference between a 2nd Lieutenant and a private 2nd class? The private has been promoted once"
ROFL.
The USMA “West Point” is the entrance academy for the US Army. Where as most officers come through ROTC in a normal college where military science is a couple classes a semester and they get occasional military training once they’re a Junior in MS… West Point inducts their new cadets with a condensed basic training and then they get regular military training and classes throughout their 4 years in the Academy. While I have had many amazing leaders come from ROTC in regular universities, the ones that have come from West Point have an understanding of the Army that seems way beyond their years and it’s taken less time to get them to the point they need to be to lead us Soldiers. Hopefully this answers your question about Jones being new and understanding shit.
Let's not forget OCS (Officer Candidate School) where junior soldiers and non-commissioned officers go to become officers. I happen to be a West Point grad, so I appreciate your comment, but there's great officers from all three commissioning sources. (And not so great ones too).
@@clarkbarrett6274 absolutely! Have had some incredible OCS officers as well, don’t want to rank them because everyone is sensitive but I’d do it… OCS That comes from that branch #1, west pointer #2, OCS coming from another branch #3, ROTC #4. I only put West Pointer in #2 because they seem to branch in the area of their study more often, or if they get a combat arms MOS, I mean, if you’re proficient in battle drills which all west pointers seem to be you’re prepared to start learning as an infantry officer and get to ready pretty quickly.
Okay, I've had slightly different experiences with W.P.ers.
We would get these pseudo officers over their summer vacation, and they would spend 6-8 weeks with our company, as an added observer. Our company would call them 3rd Lt., as a half joke (referencing Heinlin in Starship Troopers, if you've read the book) and as a quick way to tell others this person wasn't REALLY in the military.
These 3rd Lt, and also 2nd Lts from W.P. we're often full of the "book" knowledge. As a Jr NCO (Cpl) in ammo, I would often get one or two of these 3rd Lts for a day or two, so they can see what it takes to distribute ammo in different scenarios. There were many, many times I would have to pull over to the side of the road, and tell them that they only had observer rank, and that often times the "book" was nodded to, but in order to get the job accomplished correctly. And in a timely manner, other methods had to be taken care of. This was the real education. Even the character of Tom Hank's son finally understood that lesson at the end. The lesson was "You're not in W.P. anymore....."
@@timhonigs6859 so what you’re talking about (I’m assuming Army because if not I have no idea what your branch calls it) CTLT. Cadet Troop Leader Training. These kids are generally juniors in school, and I will admit to having a certain indifference to them, I’d call them Sir and salute them, but that was it. That’s just their time to come deal with Soldiers, to see what’s going to be happening when they finally commission. It seems like a waste to those in the unit, regardless of what way they are coming into those officer ranks, but it really affects them and can actually change their mind on their prospective branch. It’s a bigger deal than we think it is while they’re falling in with us.
@@Elijah31011 Yep. I did CTLT. It was part of one of the best summers of my life. I actually was the Platoon Leader for about 5-6 weeks of a Scout Platoon. Some of my buddies did a lot of 'observing' but I was the PL. It was tons of fun, made plenty of mistakes but learned from all of them.
Had a total crap PSG - he was completely ROAD. But the section sergeant who was filling in taught me what I needed to know. Some of the guys tried to pull tricks and nonsense but it was all in good fun. We spent most of that time in the field.
I like to think I did alright. One night we're leading the tank battalion to another site at Fort Hood. I'm struggling, not because of the land navigation but because there's a huge number of vehicles with blackout drives on at an intersection (4 Corners).
I know I need to turn, but can't really see cuz my night vision is washed out from all the lights. We have to negotiate around all these vehicles safely. I almost miss the tank trail and then get back on course.
A couple more clicks and I get a radio call and the CSM says...."alright stop and go into a coil." I respond "we're not at the laager area yet." He calls back "rgr sir, things have changed."
So we pull into a coil and set our defense. Then we get a call that there's no more movement and get some sleep.
That night a soldier in another unit was crushed between two vehicles trying to recover one of them from a ditch. Dead. A harsh lesson, but one I still remember. (He probably should have done things 'by the book' - and worn his helmet)
Other than though it was a great summer. Learned a ton.
My military career ends in 9 days. 28 years and 32 days. 33 years if you add in West Point.
Speers to Lipton: You have no idea who I'm talking about, do you?
Goosebumps...
You guys are so damn respectful of this story, this show, and these men. I've seen so many other reaction channels treat this show like a typical action/war show and don't take it seriously AT ALL. Other channels talk during somber moments, play down the tragedies and just...don't get that these men and this story are not just props for you to use to entertain a CZcams audience. Respect to both of you for understanding what this show is.
Well said
Thank you for your reaction to this series. Please watch the "We Stand Alone Together" documentary from this series as well. I would love to see you react to that after you finish this show.
Funny behind the scenes story:
The original script wanted Malarkey to go on the patrol. The real Malarkey found out about it and insisted that he really hadn't been on the patrol at all. So they rewrote the script to accommodate that.
Since Webster was long dead by the time of the series he gets shoehorned into a lot of things he didn't do in real life.
How does Jones know what to do?
A: Infantry Officer Basic Course, intense post-commissioning course to teach new lieutenants how to lead troops in combat - not every one is a success and they quite often were killed within a few days.
Jackson dying is one of the toughest scenes to watch in the whole series.
The scene with Cobb drunk with Lt. Jones didn't happen, he actually assaulted Sgt. Foley while drunk and was arrested by MP's and was dishonorably discharged not long after
You can see him sitting in the MP's jeep at the end.
A nice touch is that you see Cobb riding with MPs in a jeep in the end.
Foley was a LT
Oh really I always disliked Cobb
They really set actor Richard Speight Jr. (Cobb here) up as a dick. In the episode 'The Replacements' he is the one who gives James McAvoy a hard time about wearing the special unit citation on his lapel.
Regarding Webster, he fought in both Normandy and Holland, not just Normandy. Also, depending on the severity of the wounds he received, he may not have physically been able to re-join the company. If you can't walk, how can you escape from the hospital? So to suggest he was any less motivated than the others is really a disservice.
Lastly, regarding Lt. Jones and his promotion, in general there was a manpower shortage in the Allied army in Europe. At certain points in time, there were actually more German troops in the field than there were British/American/Canadian/French. The type of troops in shortest supply were Junior officers. Reason being, they are targeted more by the enemy and take far longer to train. (Think about this, in order for Jones to Graduate in June of '44, he would have probably started at West Point in September of '40, more than 1 full year before the US entry into the war!) The idea with people like this is to give them some exposure to frontline duty, but as soon as possible, move them to jobs in the rear where they could actually do the most good.
Ah, that’s why Nixon says “huh, don’t get hurt.” Not just to kid around but actually meant it what with all you mentioned.
@@genghisgalahad8465 Yep, you're correct! Another fun fact I remember specifically from the Stephen Ambrose book, Band of Brothers, was that unlike regular army WW2 platoons, which were lead by a single Lt., Airborne platoons like the ones in Easy Company started out with two Lt.s per platoon, a leader and an assistant platoon leader. As you see in the episode, 2nd platoon didn't have any officers left and was being led by a Sgt.
To be clear. LT Jones was in the West Point Class of 1944. But he originally would have been a part of the Class of '45. Classes were accelerated during WWII so he only spent 3 years at USMA. Along with GEN Dwight Eisenhower's son who also graduated on D-Day. That said, classes who start during wars tend to focus even more on learning their profession. So even one year short he was probably pretty well prepared!
It is just a pleasure watching the two of you experience this amazing series. Lieutenants were ground up pretty quickly as the movie cliche is the fresh out of OCS lieutenant assigned to the grizzled combat platoon, actually commanded by the sergeant. A West Pointer was valuable as an intellectual asset as well as a dollar investment so the goal was always to get them combat experience, promote them then move them to a job out of harm’s way. Winters’ promotion was a combination of leadership and organization ability, Lipton’s was for leadership under fire. The enlisted men were also advancing in the rank, it made hearing ‘Private Webster’ after so much combat unusual. The next two episodes are stunning for different reasons, hope you enjoy them.
The moment when Winters is told he can't take charge and he says fuck it, Spears, get over here and do this, is awesome.
Jones was a trained officer and still green as a combat leader. He was sent to staff duty, which was a good call--lots of tasks a knowledgeable officer could do, from supply to intel. Staff officers (like Nix) are not generally deployed in combat, and expected to command troops in the field. Nix has been in combat situations (like when he got his helmet shot off in Ep.4, or under fire in Bastogne), but notice that at no point is he giving commands to individual soldiers.
You have to go to officer candidate school to become an officer which requires college. So enlisted men could only become officers via battlefield commission.
Totally agree.
I have loved this show since it first aired on HBO. I’ve seen the awesome making of documentary which is equally cool and the video diary filmed by Ron Livingston (Nixon) which I highly recommend.
There’s definitely a bunch of guys who were or who became pretty big time actors. I actually didn’t realize Tom Hardy was in the series until the 3rd time I watched.
Hanks and Spielberg did an amazing job. 🤙🏻
Promotions of officers and promotions of enlisted soldiers aren't related to each other in any way. So Jones getting promoted from 2LT to 1LT, didn't deprive any of the enlisted men of a promotion. At this point, Jones has spent 4 years at West Point and it has been about 8 or 9 months since he graduated. So it wouldn't really be unusual for him to get a promotion like that. I got my first promotion (enlisted, not officer), which was an automatic promotion, after my first 6 months. From there, I got my second one about a year later and from there, 4 months later.
Oh, and no, Lipton doesn't get to go home. He was 'discharged' as an enlisted man (meaning he wasn't an officer), and given a commission as a 2nd Lt. The 'discharge' was just a technicality sort of thing, because there is no promotion lane to go from 1SG (First Sergeant), to 2LT (Second Lieutenant). So he had to be 'discharged' from the enlisted ranks, so that he could enter the officer ranks.
Jones actually was with Easy for awhile and looked up to Winters so he wouldn't have said anything about the order to not go on the 2nd mission. Sadly he passed away not long after the war ended
Lt Jones Jones graduated West Point on June 6th, between then and him joining Easy, he would have attended Infantry/Airborne school. Also, whilst at West Point he would have gone through some tactical training over the 4 years he would have been there. Some Officer grade promotions, particularly early ones from 2nd Lt to Lt are given at certain points in their career, later on, say from Lt to Capt, you compete for them.
I really hope you continue because The Pacific was just as good! It was real tough to watch. Also Generation Kill was another great show on the push to Baghdad. I watch these series around the holidays every year they are the absolute best
LT. Jones graduated in the same class at West Point as the son of President Roosevelt, who was killed in the war.
Watching the two of you on this journey has made me remember how I felt the first time I saw it. The book this is based on is excellent as is Winters’s memoirs. Listen on audio books while driving if you don’t enjoy reading.
Loved that Winters put his men BEFORE Army, that says a LOT about him and his leadership.
There's a really cool moment, that i enjoyed about this episode. When the team is sitting in the cellar, preparing for the operation. You can see one man, using his lighter on the front sight of his rifle. I didn't understand what he was doing at first, but he was doing that to provide more contrast to his front sight. Making it easier to see.
Hey guys, great reactions, couple of points: Lt Jones didn't lead the patrol - Winters sent him along as an observer. Lt Jones was promoted, probably because they could do with some paperwork types up at regiment, and he had, after all, volunteered for a combat mission on his first day which he successfully came through (and for a newbie, he was pretty good with the men, recognising what they had been through). The returning soldier had not just been through Normandy, but had taken part in and been wounded during operation Market Garden - think his cheerful "where's everybody at" attitude didn't help him being welcomed back...
Good points along with Lipton after 24:05 : “1st Sergeant Lipton, your honorable discharge as an enlisted man, and battlefield commission as a 2nd Lieutenant..” Also, Webster was thoughtfully helpful to both Jones (getting combat experience) AND Malarkey (getting a much needed break). And the audience benefited from him narrating and asking around about everybody, having been fine awhile, and everyone’s weary responses to him. It was well done. I hadn’t treated it like I might The Walking Dead or characters from GoT maybe...like, trust no one. Then again, SPR pulled that on us too with fictional Upham.
I grew up in the smallest county in New York. 4H was a big part of my life. My friends' dad was a small, quiet man.His name was Mike. He was quite a bit older than their mom. He meant what he said, and said what he meant. A few times I recall he would go on and tell about his time in the Army. My friends would say Dad enough of the war stories. He'd laugh and change the subject. Years later after I had served, i had been invited to a veteran's day event, my dad's late older brother was finally receiving posthumosl, some very long overdue awards from the Korean war. About 10 sets of awards were being presented. Next to my uncle's award was my friend's dad's awards. My dad did not understand why i got upset when he picked up Mike's award..... His THIRD Silver Star. (To put that in perspective, the Silver Star is second only to the Medal of Honor). What made the day was Mike receiving that award IN his original army uniform. (It would take too long to type, but it involved a river crossing, a priest , a tank and a tank commander) 4 years ago it was a distinct honor to be apart of the Honor Guard at his funeral. Rest Well Iron Mike
I live five minutes from where winters lived in Pa, my friend Jordan when he was just 15 raised enough money to make a statue for band of brothers, which was my first exposure to it, still proud of my homie, and happy to enjoy your journey on the show, and happy you realize it is real events.
Officer promotions are time in rank based. O1-O3 are pretty much guaranteed as long as you live and stay out of trouble. O4 and up are time in grade and more merit based for promotions. It’s almost the same for enlisted too. E1-E4 are pretty much time in grade and some performance based. It’s tougher to get promoted E5 and up.
Lipton wasnt getting sent home, he was getting promoted from an NCO to a commissioned officer.
My dad was through d day and the liberation of France . His brother was a b17 door gunner, both survived
A lot of the source material for Ambrose's book which the series is based on came from Webster's book
It was very brief, but I don't know if you noticed the wounded German hostage, the one the other 2 Germans are helping carry out, who get's left on the bank, that we hear screaming later,
was played by Tom Hanks
There is only so far you can be promoted as an enlisted man. Jones was from a military academy so he can rise through the ranks. If you are an enlisted man you start as a private, but to go any higher then sgt you must get a battlefield commission, which is what happens to Lipton at the end of the episode when they decommissioned him as an enlisted man and made him a Lieutenant.
The reason Lt. Jones was promoted that fast is simple but horrible... The 2th and 1th Lt. jobs had the highest casualty rates of any position. Officers on the platoon level is one of the biggest killers, because the Lt. is often expected to be "first in, last out", as for snipers he is a prime target.
Most of the platoons at that time in the war, often had a senior Sgt. as a leader instead of a First or Second Lt. and as shown, when new replacement officers came to the unit, the real leadership of the unit was often the Sgt's/NCO's.
Also if you think these battles have been rough, I really hope you will watch "the Pacific" afterwards... That show is intense!
Learning something new about 2nd LT and 1st LT in WWII!
@@genghisgalahad8465 Yeah, in Vietnam the life expectancy of a 2th Lt. in combat was at its worse something like 21 minuts (in part due to the short range that conflict was often fought over). WW1 and WW2 were roughly similar (I don't have the statistics right in front of me, but it was bad).
Winters is a prime example of what happens. He is extremly good, at least in the top 5% platoon commanders in the US army, when he drops into Normandy, but due to combat losses he is immediately the acting company commander. He takes a hell of a lot of chances (scouting, leading frontal attacks and so on) but doesn't become a casualty, so within four months he becomes the second in command of the entire battalion, and five months later he is the commander of the Battalion... In less than a year he went from First Lt. to Major (holding a job that is really meant for a lieutenant colonel).
Now we ofc follows him via the TV-show, and thus have had 8 episodes to see his rise... But in the time-line Winters is promoted to Major on the 8th of March, he dropped into Normandy on the 5th-6th of June. Most of the other Lt. of the company were either dead, wounded or had been promoted, and the company was so short of officers that Sgts were starting to be promoted to fill the gaps. (Lipton deserved his rank, but it speaks of extreme shortage that you promote your NCOs).
Malarkey was always positive and upbeat. Now looks fed up. And you can understand when he loses his best friends he's known is it 2 years. I can't believe iv only seen this show now. Onto the Pacific and Masters after this.. Love your reactions thanks for putting this up so I could educat myself about the sacrifice they made
The third prisoner who was left on the bank after the first raid who was yelling out was Tom Hanks. thus you had both father and son in the same episode.
About the promotions: An officer in the US Army starts as 2nd Lieutenant and will be promoted to 1st Lieutenant after enough time served with good conduct. Jones was a 2nd Lieutenant at that point for 8 months and got that promotion pretty much automatically. It is the same promotion that Winters received in the first episode while they were still in training.
Winters was actually already a Major for a bit when that patrol went out. The show changed the chronology for dramatic reasons. In many respects Winters was already doing the job of a Lt Colonel but could not be promoted that fast.
The enlisted characters did get promotions but they were within the enlisted and non-commissioned officer ranks. There are multiple Sergeant ranks but the show does not really dwell on that aspect and they were pretty much referred as generic sergeants.
Lipton got a battlefield commission so he had to be discharged from the enlisted ranks and a second later commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant. It does mean that he will be reassigned to another unit as soon as the company is out of combat and has time to deal with the paperwork.
This episode features a cameo performance by Tom Hanks (one of the series producers). He does the voice of the German soldier left on the bank to die…
Fun fact: the screaming prisioner ( the one they leave behind in the 1st patroll) eas played by Tom Hanks ( that was nice )
As an Australian there is another show called ‘the pacific’ think 🤔 ts made by the same guys.
Why would you need to mention you are an Australian to talk about that?
Love your guy’s channel. Thanks for commenting and reacting to this series, it’s my favorite..my Grandfather was at D-Day in the 101st 327th glider infantry. It hits home. Thank you.
You should also watch the pacific series. It's set in the pacific theater suring ww2, from the same producers of band of brothers.
Jones promotion was a reward for keeping his mouth shut.
Currently, US Army 2LTs are automatically promoted, pending any significant disciplinary issues, at 18 months time of service (after graduating and commissioning). It’s a pretty fast and insignificant promotion, usually. WWII accelerated that even more. As more people were killed and needed to be replaced, more units were simultaneously stood up as the Army rapidly expanded. This caused massive demand for quick battlefield promotions to fill the ever increasing amount of staff and leadership positions. If you remember, Winters made 1LT in the first episode when he hadn’t even completed basic training. Winters also went from a brand new 2LT to MAJ in just 2 years. That’s insanely fast compared to the modern or peace time standard of 10 years Time in service to make MAJ. Also, Winters is performing the job of a battalion commander, which is normally filled by a LTC with almost 20 years time in service. But, it was the norm then due to the necessities of the war.
Actually, the current promotion from 2LT to 1LT is almost - but not quite - automatic. It takes the endorsement of the 2LT's Battalion Commander. I know this because as a BN CDR, I denied a 2LTs promotion to 1LT and made short work of his career. It's a long story, but it basically ended with him malingering his way out of a deployment to OIF. I had had enough of his shenanigans. Had he been promoted to 1LT he could have lingered a long time in the Army. It was best for him and the unit that that didn't happen. Buh bye.
Amazingly, but not surprisingly, he ran for office later. Of course he cited his service in the USMC and in the Army as an officer. But he didn't detail how brief his experience as an officer was on his campaign website.
Behind Stephen Ambrose's book titled Band of Brothers, Webster's book Parachute Infantry: An American Paratrooper's Memoir is an excellent read. A lot from this episode came from that book.
In the military there are two different types of ranks and soldiers each with their own promotion criteria and paths. There are “commissioned officers” and “enlisted” soldiers. Commissioned officers all outrank enlisted soldiers technically and are the executive leaders with ultimate responsibility in a unit. Here are the armies commissioned officer ranks.
2nd lieutenant
1st lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant colonel
Colonel
Brigadier general (1 star)
Major general (2 star)
Lieutenant General (3 star)
General (4 star)
General of the army (5 star) - not always a rank, there have only been 9 5 star generals in history.
Then there are enlisted ranks. Enlisted soldiers are seen as the blue collared workers in the military and sergeants and above are the real front line leaders. They’re known as the backbone of the army.
Private
Private second class
Private First Class
Specialist/Corporal
Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Sergeant first class
Master sergeant/First sergeant
Sergeant Major/command sergeant major
Sergeant major of the army.
Technically a 2nd lieutenant outranks the sergeant major of the army but no 2nd lieutenant in their right mind would ever talk down to a First Sergeant or above just due to the time a First Sergeant has in to get to that rank.
Also sergeants and above are referred to as non-commissioned officers or non-coms or NCO’s
It’s harder to start a career as a commissioned officer as opposed to an enlisted member. Usually it takes a college degree and attending either a service academy or going to officer candidate school (which compares sort of to basic training) whereas an enlisted soldier literally enlists by just meeting basic requirements and swearing in before heading to basic training.
So each of those rank paths have their own promotions and requirements. What LT Jones was promoted from/to is his first promotion so he was more than due for that promotion.
Now 1st Sergeant Lipton was a fairly unique case. He had joined the army as an enlisted soldier and had already been promoted all the way to 1st sergeant. In wartime and in a theater of war there is a special path to a commissioned officer called a “battlefield commission” kind of a jumping between the two types of ranks. It’s fairly rare but not unheard of for it to happen especially in a unit like Easy company that lost so many officers, they just need those spots filled by good leaders. He didn’t get to go home he was simply discharged as an enlisted soldier and then immediately commissioned as an officer with the rank of 2nd lieutenant. I hope that helps clear that up a little bit.
I only listed the armies ranks, the Air Force, Marines and definitely the Navy have different names for both enlisted and commissioned officers.
I won’t mention warrant officers, it will just make things even more confusing :)
Just realized you’re gonna finish the show on the 4th of July 🇺🇸
Gotta start the pacific right after
@@ProfessionalTroll420 yes pls, watch the pacific after !
There was such a thing as a blood rank. A brand new baby Second Lieutenant from West point might get promoted right away to replace a first lieutenant who was recently killed. I know a World War II vet who told me that he went from Private First Class to Staff Sergeant in 60 days. They had a really bad engagement with a German Mechanized Infantry Unit that handed them their asses. Everybody below him was a replacement, and everyone above him in the company was DEAD, so he got to be the brand new staff sergeant who NOW gets to run The Platoon. It would be worth it to check out and read the book "Band Of Brothers", cover to cover, it's a good read, it's not boring, and it's pretty much just like watching the show, although you do get some details that they leave out of the show. As a whole, the book and the movie, are one of the same.
Webster came from a wealthy, influential family that wanted to use said wealth and connections to secure him a commission as an officer on some Adjutant or General staff... some rear echelon position in which he would be safe. He defied their wishes, left Harvard and enlisted as a Private so that he could see the war first hand from the front line solder's perspective. Many times he proved himself and turned down opportunities for advancement so that he could stay right where he was, as a private, keeping meticulous journals and applying his college/literary skills to recording what he knew would one day be history for the ages. We wouldn't have hardly any of the story of Easy Company and the Band of Brothers today were it not for Webster because his writings and memoirs were heavily used to to re-tell the tales which became this series.
Watch the “Sequel” to this show, The Pacific. 10 episodes set in the Pacific of WWII.