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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2014
- Teardown Tuesday
What's inside a 1991 vintage IBM PS/2 L40SX 80386SX laptop?
Inside the LCD:
animus.pro/public/lcd_2.jpg
animus.pro/public/lcd_1.jpg
Datasheets:
IIT 3C87 Co-Processor: datasheets.chipdb.org/IIT/IIT3...
WD76C30 pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datas...
WD76C20: www.datasheet-pdf.com/datashee...
WD76C10: www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmai...
LT1270: cds.linear.com/docs/en/datashe...
8042 PS/2 Controller: wiki.osdev.org/%228042%22_PS/2...
Intel 8 Macrocell PLD: www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet...
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I think Dave needs a moment alone with that keyboard
its amazing that a computer more than 20 years old still works but my 3 year old laptop died on me yesterday
F
A Old laptop with modern hardware would be badass.
Retro looks, kick ass performance.
IIGrayfoxII A /bit/ late, but they’re called “sleeper” computers
nothing on earth is more exciting than basic in rom
Agreed! :->
for those who don't know, Daewoo make everything from big tanker ships and dock cranes to computer hardware, consumer electronics and yes, cars. (the car manufacturing part was bought by GM lots of years ago)
Cool I did not know that!
Rats! I was hoping you would enter the date to see if it was y2k compliant.
me too. I was waiting the same
Mariano Gaston that makes three of us!
Ben Childs four
I was going to mention that. I have read that the WD chipset is not C2K compliant.
EEVblog Please test it out and make a short follow-up (maybe on altzone)
1991 even monochrome a 640x480 lcd screen is an amazing feat of technology, the first mainstream lcd color screens in the late 90s and early 200s were 640x480, if you wanted higher there was a massive premium in 98.
yep I remember my first 15in LCD KDS monitor back in the early 2000's was close too $500, and I think it was limited to something like 1024x768 screen rez with only VGA input, and speakers on it where so dinky you could barely hear them lol! But that was state of the art indeed.
In 1999 there were already large number of ordinary laptops with SVGA, and few business oriented laptops in market with XGA.
I was working designing flat screen LCD's and systems at Keycorp in 1994. They were 640 x 480 and 800x600 colour, but dead pixels were an accepted thing in production units back then!
Sampling VGA analog output and converting to LCD was REALLY HARD back then, even at 640x480, and it took a whole box full of tricks to accomplish. We tried to cram at that into the monitor which was a big deal at the time. Now it's just a single chip and we don't think twice about plugging our LCD monitor into an analog VGA port and get perfect full HD picture.
EEVblog
awesomesauce!
Artūrs Savickis
i had a thinkpad in 2000 that had a 640x480 (it was around there, strange res and it has been a long time) color display. this was around the time that active matrix was starting to become all the rage (my thinkpad didn't have it) but i do remember from that time that in laptops the most expensive part and the thing that you were really buying was the display. to say the least if you had an lcd at 1024x768 in 2000 you likely spent more than 500 bucks on it, while at the same time you could get a crt that could handle more than your video card could at nearly half the price. crt's though are kinda unfair, my secondary monitor is a relatively cheap crt from 2005 and i have it running at 1920x1440 right now just so it matches the width of my primary (hd lcd) monitor which makes tossing my tv to it easier. unless it is faking it internally it is actually managing to run that resolution, i've looked through settings back and forth and i can't figure out how the hell it manages it, even looking up close there is only a bit of blur and i think i could fix that if i popped the back off and tweaked the right pot.
Daewoo is actually still around. I bought a very good air-conditioner made by them a few years ago.
Dave, your teardowns are my favorite, i just love em.
This took me back 23 years to when I was in an IT Helpdesk and talking customers through how to "run auto config from their Ref Disk". Has brought back lots of memories. Thanks for posting
This computer was engineered by IBM Japan, and it actually came out later than expected, in 1992. It was IBM's first laptop, and it retailed for US$5,000.
Would love to see an old computer ad for it. Anyone?
EEVblog Bish bosh done. 2.bp.blogspot.com/-GGIh-ncsYh4/Uz708NtYXGI/AAAAAAAALKg/dylYZx9gbto/s1600/l40.jpg
I love these retro teardowns so much
Wow, a 387 coprocessor, those things were hard to find about a decade ago, they must be super rare by now. It's interesting that it has 2MB of system RAM. Most PC systems back then only had 1MB, before extended memory that is.
Error 161: "CMOS battery fail."
Error 163: "Incorrect date and time."
What is 162
@@Rainbow__cookie death.
@@rayproductionsbackupchanne3862 💀
brings back memories of my dad lugging this beast around for his work. we ended up donating it to a mission, and its still in use now.
Wow. Thanks for bringing me back to the computers I learned on.
Great videos, by the way. I had a computer shop back in late 90s up to 2001. I would buy surplus computer equipment some stuff good and other stuff not. We would spend hours dissecting the stuff that was not good, we had a blast. You must have so much fun doing what you do. Thanks for taking the time to share with us what you do....
25:04 it's interesting to see they used a monochrome LCD in this thing.. In some of the really old laptops I've owned, there was an orange-on-black flatscreen plasma on it, the contrast was amazing!
I had one of those! I think they used a lot of power. My one certainly got very hot.
***** Haha take a look at Plasma_display on wikipedia and go to 1983. There they explicitly mention the orange and black style. I had one on a really old Compaq 80386 (google tells me it was the Portable III). There was even a windows 3.1 driver for it. ;)
Wow! "The monochrome plasma video display was co-invented in 1964 at the University of Illinois by Donald Bitzer, H. Gene Slottow and Robert Willson for the PLATO Computer System." That's from another site. I would post a link, but the chances are you'd never see my comment due to the spam filter.
***** Yeah, that quote surprised me as well :)
*****
The orange was indeed plasma. I had a 80286 with that.
Slow as hack but did what it needed to do.
though not my oldest as that was a 8088 lcd. they mad a desktop on your lap when you had that closed
FunnyHacks They certainly did use a lot of power! When I said "laptop", I meant a computer you could potentially carry around (it had a carry strap and everything), though it didn't actually have an inbuilt battery, and it weighed an absolute ton. I still feel bad for tossing it away a couple years ago in a big clean-up :( , it had Windows 3.1 and working harddrive and working everything in it, dual floppy drive, ISA extension slots with an old modem in it. shit I feel bad for tossing it away, got it for like 5$ at an early computer convention. You'd probably have to shell it >100$ these days to get one of those
Nice piece of history u got there, thanks for teardown! :)
I love those little LCD mini info displays!!
Nice teardown, worked with this laptop myself :) Great machine and indeed a perfect keyboard.
- Can I play Crysis on it?
- Sure. Just plug it in, grab your head, and scream and run around in circles. That's how we played crisis in the old days.
Need more EEVBlog retro computers!
I managed to find some old IBM keyboards (PS2 connector) and you're right, the keys are like butter. Just amazing. Nothing like it.
oh man! what a gorgeous unit. I remember these.
That reference diskette was for programming the CMOS. PS/2's did not have BIOS configuration software in ROM - the Reference diskette was used instead.
This is probably why the hard drive wouldn't boot - because the CMOS battery died. It may be able to boot that drive after running the auto-config (and don't power it off in between!)
Nice, I've used one of those. Had one in school, used it for programming micros. Also had a PS/2 Desktop.
This has been one of the most exciting EEVblog videos I've ever seen. I also think that the keyboards were MUCH better before. Dave: Have you ever typed in a IBM model M?
It's amazing on how far technology has come. These days you get all that in the size of a Watch. Computers back then where monstrous now they're just tiny little things you can throw in any bag and forget it's there.
Loving these retro tear downs. I miss computers that mak hard drive noise.
Dave, you made my Day
Surprised at how aesthetically pleasing its design is.
Great stuff, vintage hardware.
That keyboard sounds beautiful!!!
Dave, thanks so much for this! My first engineering job was at Western Digital, where I designed the SRAM and worked on the real time clock and battery detector circuitry in the 7620/7621. I also did some of the physical layout and touched parts of the 7610. That was an exciting time to be able to design so much of what went into this laptop for IBM. So this is very near and dear to me, bringing back so many memories!
Awesome, thanks for sharing. There are countless unspoken designers out there who designed all this stuff!
EEVblog Thank you for doing what you're doing. I've learned so much from you and have been quite entertained at the same time. Smiley face. Keep it going!
I had one of those about 8 years ago. I bought it from a second hand shop for about 5 euros or something like that. Mine had 14MB of RAM, a 960MB hard drive and Windows 3.1 installed on it! I miss it! Don't know where it went! :(
"Where's the fan? Where's the water cooling? Can i play Crysis on it?" Had myself a nice little chuckle with that one
Very nice! I have been able to obtain this machine in a very pristine condition for a small price. I absolutely agree with you about the keyboard. Cheers!
I believe the "161" and "163" BIOS error messages relate to the CMOS. Dead battery or something for the CMOS, probably.
the rubbery keys was just very nice also... they kept it in the laster slim laptops and also the clam shell...which i really loved at 1st site
I think it could render crysis at 1 frame per year.
Nice teardown! :)
Hey Dave, Daewoo still make cars under the Chevrolet brand now. Their car factories were purchased by General Motors in the early 2000's or even a bit earlier and their cars were rebadged in '04 or '05. They still make te same style of cars and have quite a bit of success in Europe.
It's a shame that IBM doesn't build laptop anymore. I consider myself lucky to have one of their last thinkpad.
Re YOU ARE EVERYWHERE
Re It's true that IBM team is still around, actually I have a W520 wich is branded Lenovo. But as time go by, Lenovo engineers will gradually take over and my guess is they'll gradually reduce the production cost of their workstation and their computer will become flimsier.
Ovni121 They already have. Look at the T400/500 keyboard compared to the T60/61.
Agree, since Lenovo "took over" ThinkPad sucks! Have a X220 now..
The Lenovo T series are still really nice, I fixed up a t410s that I got for free, and it's quite a nice beast. Graphics wise it's no good for gaming but can do 1080p streaming no problem, and build quality is still really nice, magnesium frame and LCD cover.
Nice I also had an old ibm laptop with black/white display. And yes I freakin loved the keybord espacially the sound!
Just to be clear for the "noobies" watching this: The computer didn't normally come up with Basic. IBM PC's normally tried to boot from floppy first, then from hard disk, and if all of those failed, they would revert back to "cassette basic". No IBM computer had a cassette port except the first IBM PC's (they removed the port on the PC/XT) so it was totally useless: you couldn't save or load programs to/from floppy drives from cassette basic. The only reason it was still there in every IBM PC after 1982 was that the "BASICA" interpreter that was included with DOS (which WAS capable of using the floppy and hard disk) relied on the routines in the ROM to do its work.
Back then, computers didn't have fancy BIOS user interfaces; I think the original PC BIOS was 16 kilobytes so no space for error messages. IBM used a scheme of error messages where the last two digits were the error code and the digits in front of it were the device that was causing the error. 1=motherboard, 2=memory, 3=keyboard, 6=floppy, 17=hard disk etc. www.bioscentral.com/misc/ibmdiag.htm contains a list of the errors from the BIOS and also the various diagnostic diskettes for all the IBM models.
Old computers? You have a new subscriber. :)
I see these come up on ebay from time to time and have been tempted to pull the trigger on one. I just have too many retro project computers already. This one is in beautiful shape!
I remember the LCD's on those things had rely slow update intervall so if you changed from black to white screen you could see a wave of pixels changing on the screen, thanks for the video Dave :)
Back when I was a youngin' I would have loved to have this. Now that I am not so young I still want to have this.
The keyboards that came with the early IBM PC's, - say 1985, - were superb.
The gold anodized cross lever contacts and the tactile response was fantastic.
You always knew if your finger depressing the button had come home.
These days, you have to look at the display now and then to be sure that all the buttons you have pushed has actually been detected. BUH!
The Samsung Notemaster SX20 was one of its competitors back in the day. I inherited one from my father in 1993, I believe, and most magazines showed offers from Toshiba, IBM and Samsung.
I used one of these for several years when I was a teenager. Wonderful machine.
Sounds like a mechanical keyboard, awesome!
Booting vintage computers is priceless!
love all the little details and wow those crusty nichicons still work ... no puff the magic dragon ...
Sorry very late on this, but I just found it(and am really enjoying your channel!) Fun Fact, IBM spent over 1 million dollars(US) on just keyboard "feel", I bought myself 3 of them for my computers back in the day cause you couldn't find any manufacturer that even came close to the feel of the IBM keyboard. Man, I miss those days...
Looks very similar to the Tandy 1500 HD laptop that I rocked back in the early '90's. Had a 486 SLX that was actually more compatible than the regular 486 chip I had in my desktop. The CPU was actually a Cyrix chipset. It was counted as either a fast 386 or a slow 486. It lasted from 1992 until 2005 before both the floppy and hard drive gave up the ghost.
Hi Dave awesome video....
my favorite videos are your fundamental Fridays videos... do more of them...
Thanks
Great video Dave. I suggest investing in a Cherry MX Brown mechanical keyboard from your comments on the feel of the laptops keyboard.
Love your key tapping obsession. The sound gives an insight to feel..a high Q hard plastic plunk with smooth instant action and light foam damping with a 0.3mm 6 turn high tensile return spring...Oh no I was listening to my granny taking her teeth out.
The old IBM machines did not have a fully-fledged CMOS BIOS like the IBM-clone-machines, so the "BIOS-program" is on that diskette, and after being run, it saves the information in the computer's NVRAM.
161 and 163 are due to a dead Cmos battery. Bios settings for the chip set, and date time are not set. All bios information was stored on the Hard Disk.there was no bios chip on the motherboard.
wow this is awesome iv had one of these laying around my self given to me by my grandfather and it still boots just need to find some way to use it.(do still have the original leather case fully in-tacked).
The keyboard on this uses what's been referred to as "buckling rubber sleeves" in recent years. The keycaps have long poles that acuate by pressing the membrane beneath. However, there's a hollow rubber cap sleeve between the keycap and the membrane that buckles when pushed. That's what gives you that tactile feedback despite there not being any mechanical switch involved.
IBM later created the IBM M4 and IBM M4-1 keyboards as desktop equivalents to the IBM L40SX's keyboard. The only difference between the two desktop keyboard models is the M4-1 has a track point in the middle, similar to a Thinkpad keyboard.
I own an IBM L40SX, the numpad attachment for it, and an IBM M4 keyboard. I can confirm they use the exact same keyboard. I know because the numpad is broken and I used one of the rubber sleeves in it to replace a worn down one in my M4's spacebar and it worked flawlessly. I also compared the L40SX and M4 keyboards side by side. There were no noticeable differences between the two.
I have to agree with the video, this is a fantastic keyboard. On par with the Model M in its own way imo. If you want to experience this keyboard then track down either an IBM/Lexmark M4, M4-1 or a Unicomp Mighty Mouse (discontinued but were replicas of the M4-1 made from 2008 to 2010). The Topre Type Heaven is a more modern interpretation of this design and also comes highly recommended.
My only word of caution is that since these use rubber sleeves that are unique to this style of keyboard, finding replacement sleeves will be difficult if any of them give out. I was lucky enough to have a broken numpad to pull replacement sleeves from, but it's something to keep in mind.
Oooh. I can hear that keyboard. I know that sound. No wonder you love it so much.
I had a PS/1 and used a bunch of PS/2s. I don't recall what their keyboard was like.
I live in the USA and I used that laptop for programming PLC . It worked try IRD and serial port. I was working for a big UPS company . They made from .5 kva up to 10,000.00 KVA . The switch gear had sy/max and Allen Bradly. and a few older ones. That laptop worked great for the 11 years I worked there. I even have one kicking around somewhere . All the guys who programmed the PLC got the first dibs when they upgraded the laptops . We had to use the parallel port for a dongle . You have to have one for each of the different programming software .It was 1992 when we started using them . That was the job a headhunter got me after I spent 7 years in the NAVY on submarines . I was going to reenlist for 4 more years as I was going on my first shore duty rotation. I was going to San dingo for CCTV school then back to my hometown to run the security system at a torpedo maker. Now that I look back I wish I had stayed in the NAVY!!!
I was literally watching a video on one of these yesterday XD haha made me laugh when I saw your new video was on it!
In the US, that Daewoo laptop was likely branded "Leading Edge". They also had a MCA license and marketed a MCA bus desktop called the Leading Edge Model D3/MC.
i had the same IIT (running 25MHz) and it was REALY good!!!
I was 8 or 9 when these computers appeared. I remember being taught about the ultra fast ALU and later on, that it was incorporated into the CPU. It would be nice if you could do a little episode on various techniques of storing data or creating your own ALU (at least adding and subtracting/2's complement) as the history is just mind boggling. I think that's the main gap that when bridged, can get you from logic gates to the microprocessor. Nowadays, these processors have this black magic aura around them and it's a shame that we just take them for granted. I'd also be interested in how you get to above 25-50mhz hacker style (no expensive ARM cpus).
PS: I was a happy coder until I discovered this blog. In less then 2 months afterwards, I had my house full of plastic boxes and pieces and had read through everything I could find. Now I look at assembly language as that high level decadent bourgeois luxury that I just don't have. A coder's take on what you can achieve with such low level insight is out of this world. Best hobby I could ever find!
the IBM NiCd batt was the 'resume' battery. the 3v panny was nvram/cmos.
You could run a compact flash drive in there no problem at all with an IDE adapter
This laptop is right up my street.
I used to build L40 in greenock Scotland, out there somewhere there is some black ones and even a red one too
The big chip on the left side of the planar (IBM term) is a Hitachi H8 microcontroller which serves as the ISA bus controller; quite a common thing on 386 systems.
i cracked open a mono vga lcd from an old 386 once, the lcd was prety much all hitachi lcd drivers, 4x40 perchip pair, same as the hitachi drivers in "graphic lcd" modules
I've added the LCD photos to the description. Someone posted them.
i have a 1999 ibm aptiva and has 256mb of ram, and that was HUGE in those days.
Hurray for teardown Tuesdays....
oh shout out or what! I work for IBM UK! We're still going strong. Lovely.
PS/2 takes me back. Even though it's all about the cloud these days ;-)
I actually replaced the hard drive in my L40SX with a IDE to Compact Flash adapter and put a 512MB Compact Flash card in there to act as solid state drive. Works like a charm.
Excellent!
dude, if you think a computer of that era was slow without the math co try a 486 with the on-board cache pulled a generation later. used to have to pull it out of computers to see if it had gone bad and to test it i had to let it go through and boot then try to replicate the error with the cache out, that could take forever. the reason i couldn't just swap it out was because there were so many standards of cache at the time and it was so expensive that it would have been insane for a small shop to have a set that would fit in every 486 setup, a replacement cache sometimes cost more than a grand.
It looks like a good keyboard, wow.
I had one of those! Was my first laptop even tho it was old when i got it. Too bad i threw it away a few years ago.
Hearing Dave ask if it can play Crysis about had me on the floor.
It would be an interesting project to find one of these, gut it out, and put in a modern PC in it while retaining its original look. A saw a guy do just that with an old Kaypro.
Id love one of those!
I had this one! :) awesome machine
Pretty amaZing tech for early 90's IMHO. I was just introduced to CLONES in the late 80's. Without a GUI that speedster would be a joy.
👍😎
The keyboard matrix connectors are identical to those found in the IBM Model M keyboard; I bet you could plug one right in.
A guess in the PLL circuit. Frequency spectrum spreading? At 20 MHz you would be around HF radio bands. Maybe it was part of compliance certification?
Doesn't seem to be in the right location for that. See the other clokc oscillator modules elsewhere.
de/modulator for the telephone modem? maybe
Love it!
Hey Dave, I'm interested in old tech and new tech but to be honest I don't have a clue about motherboards, resisters or any of that mombo jumbo but I love watching your videos man your hilarious great stuff mate!
As a Defense Contract Audit Agency sub-contractor I once stood on a truck dock above a dumpster tossing 4 of these (or very similar model) and almost 100 CRTs in "As hard as you can." Because they had become fully depreciated and needed to be Destroyed. LOL
The real heart breaker that day was the Compaq Portable. : (
here's a thought, see if you can replace those CMOS batteries, and do some Retro Computing for us on it!
I remember that computer. :-)
Very simple enclosure, almost like a homebrew arrangement. Basically just a rectangle where the battery, motherboard, HDD and FDD sit next to each other. Quite different to modern laptops, where there are is a complex tight sandwich of custom plastic/metal pieces. The thermal management is another hassle. Blows my mind how they these days are able to get it all together, and in a relatively short time. Must be an interesting but stressful job.
thank you...
next up for teardown, the Cardiff Electric PC