Why are swap deals so rare in the transfer market?
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2021
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Swapping players with another club would seem like a surefire way to cut costs of a transfer, right?
Then why do swap deals happen so infrequently? Stuart James explains why swap deals are so complicated many clubs don’t even bother.
Illustrated by Philippe Fenner.
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#Transfers #SwapDeals #TransferNews - Sport
4x his salary?! Not even a united fan but it’s impossible to have nothing but respect for Sir Alex
Anyone could've taken the kid for a ride but he negotiated like he was his father.
And of course, Gillespie kept every penny because he didn't have an agent!
Good guy Ferguson, what a man
I’m pretty sure Fergie told Newcastle he was being paid more than he was by United at the time too.
Yup, that caught my attention. Never a United fan but huge respect for what Sir Alex did here.
Lowkey 3-way swap deal happened this summer:
Lukaku -> Chelsea
Abraham -> Roma
Dzeko -> Inter
Chelsea loves 3 way transfers innit
@@shwetamathur8626 Saul, Griezman, De jong could be considered a 3 way deal too
@@javichavez8827 no
Pjanic and Arthur
Not really the same. The video is talking about transfers that rely on the other players moving. Lukaku had already signed for Chelsea before Tammy was sold. Just happened to be those 3 clubs involved in 3 separate transfers.
For the same reason we use currency instead of direct trading between items. The thing you have might be worth the same to the thing they're selling but they're not interested in it.
Huge respect to Sir Alex for sorting Gillespie out with his wages, great manager and an even greater human being
He sexually assaulted beckham
@@liamdias2051 what are you on about? Don't fuel a fire that's not worth starting in the first place
@@dylanpainter2141 this kid doesn't understand jokes I pity him 😂
A fraud. Sir Alex is overrated.
@@dylanpainter2141 lmao 😂😂 I can't believe 15 others liked this fools comment...they actually think I was being serious 😂😂 y'all Hella serious 🤦
Jozy Altidore for Jermaine Defoe between Toronto and Sunderland was an amazing swap deal that benefited both clubs heavily.
Altidore is clear
@@Jackcrypto101 sure
@@Jackcrypto101 nah
I’m a Sunderland fan and I think it’s the best bit of business we’ve ever done
@@benjamineckford1718 same and it more than likely is, our business in the transfer markets have been nothing short of poor and laughable but this deal was immense, not only that Jozy found some incredible form in Toronto, both players and clubs seemed happy and improved as a result of the switch, not too often that happens
It doesn't help that swap deals don't often work out, Sanchez-Mkhi; Arthur-Pjanic, more failures than successes imo.
That's literally the last line of the video haha
i see you have also watched the video
arthur pjanic is not a footballing transfer. It's a shady and probably illegal money laundering deal
@@kuber5987 I wouldnt say money laundering but it definately is shady and borders on illegality. It all comes down to financial fair play and player depreciation.
I'll explain: Lets say you are Man City and you just bought Grealish. They paid 100 Million pounds for him. But that doesnt mean they havev to have 100mill plus in their books to balance them. The contract length is also taken into account. Grealish has a 6-year contract so every year City needs to make sure they have 100mill/6 years = 16.6 million on their books.
But when you sell a player that money is immediately a plus in your books. So imagine you are a club that has HUGE financial problems and needs a quick solution for their FFP problems (guess who that one is in the pjanic-arthur deal). So Barcelona said "We'll get 72 million and pay you 60". The 60 million they paid will depreciate over time while they immediately have 72 million Plus on the books.
It's not a genius move, you are just delaying your problems. But isnt that the Barca way after all right now.
@@5bagsofpopcorn so the debits are distributed over the contract time while the credit has immediate effect...is that how ffp works? Anyways, a good explanation bro.
I especially love the transfer rumours every year that went something like: "Man City to swap 3 players for Messi???"
Like that kind of deal probably never happened in the history of the game lmao
And it never will
Ever happened*
Surely those are American fans, because in American sport leagues those kinds of deals are quite common. If Messi was an all-star shortstop in MLB, for example, he'd have been traded to either the Yankees, Dodgers, or Red Sox for 2 relief pitchers and 5 minor leaguers.
When Rijkard found Eto'o had a bad influence on the squad, he immediately asked Laporta to discard him.But it was not easy since he performed very well and was a fan favourite icon.Then Rijkard was sacked and Pep was appointed. Pep immediately informed Eto'o that he doesn't count on him.That was the reason behind his swap deal.
Barca swapped Arthur who was a fan favourite (he was the "next Xavi") with an ageing Pjanic.
Clearly they are not good in swap deals
Off topic but after going to Juventus Arthur seems like an average player
Who's rijkard. I only know Rijkaard.
What was wrong with eto'o though? Why didnt pep or rijkaard like him? Although he was performing well on the pitch
@@shakenblake4533 big ego player. Such player will give negative impact in the dressing room and affect the whole squad. The same reason why pep and yaya toure issue happened.
Another good triangle swap deal was from this transfer window. Dzeko joined Inter from AS Roma, Abraham joined AS Roma from Chelsea and Lukaku joined Chelsea from Inter. Such a great deal for all 3 of them as it was a win-win-win situation for the clubs and for the players.
I found that out the hard way as I started playing Football Manager (dropped it eventually). At a relatively decent club, when I tried to swap one of my rotational players for an upgrade over him, I agreed a transfer deal with the other club for a certain price and my player.
I even had my target's agent agree to a contract, but the deal broke down. And when I looked for it, I saw that the player on my club's books had refused to sign with them because the other club refused to pay his agent's commission.
That's the main reason why I've almost always failed a swap transfer deal in FM too. Either the player or the agent got too greedy, then the whole deal breaks down.
Swap transfer vs straight cash transfer is like comparing barter economy to an economy with standardised currency, the latter is just plain better in almost every way.
Could we get a video on what it actually means for a club to go into administration?
A similar to Giroud, Batshuayi, Aubameyang deal happened in 2021. Remember, Chelsea bought Lukaku from Inter who bought Dzeko from Roma who bought Tammy from Chelsea. Not ideally swaps, but it did happen.
Same reason we switched from bartering system to money system I guess...
I'd like to see a video on teams that host friendlies before signing a player. It must be a common occurrence, so often as a Swansea fan we've played a European or British club then ended up either selling them a player or purchasing one of theirs.
I would swap my life savings for a lifetime supply of The Athletic
Big L
It’s a £1 a month mate
@@ianor2304 so if he’s got £0 in savings hes winning
I would swap my life for a lifetime supply of The Athletic
The joke's on us
We don't know how much he saved
His profits if any may be low but still worth it
Might not have wanted to talk about him (for good reason) but the swap for Sigurdsson and Ben Davies with Swansea and spurs was one that really benefited both clubs if Spurs weren't willing to give Sigurdsson game time
Absolutely not ben Davies is awful
@@jackuzell9861 Sigurdsson wasn't any better at spurs
On top of the standardized contracts, one reason you get trades in US sports is that different teams have different time horizons. If one team is in a "win now" mode and another is rebuilding then it makes sense for one team to trade a player in their prime for someone younger. And since you can't generally sell players for cash, if you have a player on a short term contract generally the only way to get something is to trade that player away.
The way the media goes on about swap deals you would think loads of them happen every window.
Player trades work in US sports because there's less disparity in what players make from team to team. Draft picks are often included in trades too. Trades are often done to get teams under the salary cap. In football there is no salary cap.
Let's say Manchester City sent Gabriel Jesus to Villa for Jack Grealish plus the difference in their values in cash. Even if City sent them the amount of cash they wanted the deal still wouldn't work because Villa can't pay Jesus' wages. And even though they probably could afford his wages in theory he'd be making so much more than his teammates that it would threaten the stability of their locker room.
One of the few areas where the US is surprisingly socialist.
@@robert2690 the socialism he mentioned isn't in the sense of politic, but rather economic. the US sporting system is known for being socialist practices between the riches because they opted to share the wealth of the league between themselves instead of opening free market for competition to exist freely.
Also, the US biggest 3 leagues (MLB, NFL, NBA) are by far the most lucrative league for those sports. Yes basketball and baseball have other countries that have good leagues and talent but their best players seem to play in the American leagues as their most lucrative option even though it's a closed league with caps. That financial station is always in flux though, especially since each of those three leagues is really struggling with alienating a lot of fans and losing people's interest in playing the games, particularly with NFL.
@@robert2690 difficult to discuss the organisational features of one of the biggest industries in the world without talking politics
@@kelvinsudirman4072 I like the free market because it felt so good when the big spenders team lose
Rebic and Andre Silva swap deal was amazing
It is very interesting to note that in US sports, swap deals or trades is the norm alongside free agent signings 🤔
The Sanchez-Mkhitaryan swap was a disaster for everyone involved, except the players agents ofc
enabled arsenal to go for auba because it reduced wage bill. he's still saving arteta's job
Liverpool - Wolves had one last season, with Jota going to Liverpool, and Hoever going to Wolves, plus some additional fees from Liverpool for Jota.
That wasn't a swap deal.
Liverpool paid Wolves 41 million for Jota, and got 9 million back for Hoever
Bryan Gil for Erik Lamela is going to be a success. Sevilla's and La Liga's style of play is suiting Lamela perfectly. He's averaging the most dribbles in the Sevilla squad. Meanwhile, Bryan is one of Spain's hottest prospects (U-21 national team captain) and will only get better. Similar player profiles as well!
Indeed
In Brazil, swap deals are fairly common. Every year, there is a a club with a new manager that wants to swap players with other teams (normally his ex-team).
Silva and Rebic swap was pretty smart.
The culture of ripping-off "bigger" teams when they want your best player(s), because of FFP [yawn, OK]
is one other factor to why so few swap deals, or trade agreements between more than just two clubs ever occur.
Not necessarily looking to change the rules, but change the culture of perceived acceptance, is certainly required here.
So if your team is in danger of losing key assets, rather than trying to sell for the biggest possible fee, only to find opposing clubs you wish to purchase replacements get greedy themselves with your war chest, swapping players - instead of just selling them - is a gamble often worth risking (through good planning for all worst case scenarios, at all times).
"You can now get a 30-day trial to experience the Athletic for free."
Oh wow, only just now I can get a 30-day free trial? What a completely new, unique deal! I've never heard about this in any of Tifo's videos up to this point!
I swear they've been offering this "exclusive, just now, just for you deal" for years. Probably since the channel started.
@@andrew7taylor Tifo only 'joined' the athletic in 2020. Before there are no athletic ads, and they got 'normal' CZcamsr sponsors like Skillshare before.
Ashley Cole and William Gallas transfer is one of the best swaps. Chelsea clearly were the ones who benefited from this swap. 💪
Chelsea benefitted on Giroud's swap too
cancelo for danilo is proving to be a masterclass
The NBA, NFL had made it very easy to understand how trade works. Imagine you get a pick to get a young player from the other team’s academy?
Cancelo plus cash for Danilo was a recent one from 2019. Wasn’t sure personally as a City fan but worked out a treat
Oh you just gotta love Sir Alex
Villa swapping Baros for Carew was a very good deal, it is rare they work out though.
This video has some clear examples that show swap deals happen, and there are some examples it overlooks. But I think the point this video makes is that some fans or observers just assume that contracts and players joining teams is as easy to achieve as their career mode on FIFA, and they expect things to happen in real life because "it makes sense". But so much goes on behind the scenes that complicate the logically obvious. Life's not a video game.
There is a reason why Sir Alex is one of the greatest in history.
Mostly it's because of match fixing
I think the only way to make swaps more popular would be to have an NBA situation, where the contracts are held centrally and the players have little say in where they end up. They're too complicated otherwise
Yeah but bosman would surely interfere in that scenario
After all you're forcing someone to work at some place he may not want to for a reason or another
Basic principal of currency vs bartering. Bartering requires a double coincidence of wants, whereas currency transactions result in money be acquired which can then be used for anything.
As an American football fan (i.e. a football fan who is an American) this video is really helpful. I was just thinking yesterday why we rarely see the traditional American style trade in European football.
I am pretty sure you forgot the main part: the money. Because of financial fair play, the clubs need to balance their books. As can be seen with the Arthur-Pjanic-deal. Technically a swap with a Juve to pay 12 Million extra. But they turned it into a 60 for 72 Million deal to balance books.
It makes sense that swap deals are rare. You have to have a situation where both players want to join the other team and where both teams are happy to let that player leave.
In a swap deal there is very rarely a win-win situation - typically a club or a player will be losing out. Most memorable to me was the Ashley Cole-William Gallas swap between arsenal and chelsea. A fee was paid but cole was worth every penny while gallas was a goner soon after
Gallas was pretty good at his time at Arsenal. Both players wanted to leave. Arsenal were maybe slight losers cause they might have been able to get a higher fee but most parties ultimately won out of that deal
@@Ldoggmillionaire I’d tend to say Gallas somewhat lost - Cole was insane for Chelsea, including the champions league win. Arsenal went downhill post Wenger but obvis not connected to Gallas, but he then went to Spurs iirc
When we were swapping out Arthur for Pjanic,it was pretty obvious how it was going to end.Swap deals are only helpful when you know how ur gonna use that player and why u need him
You mean when Barcelona made the swap? Unless you work at the establishment “we” is the incorrect phraseology.
@@AutopilotAndChill lots of fans talk about their club as "we"
That wasn’t a swap deal, that was something else altogether.
@@007Fusiion Exactly. That was not a swap deal, it was a Arthur for 72 Million and Pjanic for 60. Balancing the books is what you call that, not a swap.
@@5bagsofpopcorn so basically pjanic and 12 million for Arthur?
I wish you guys would do a Rafa/Everton video
Meanwhile in north america
"Sure you can have our player but we want 4 players that we dont know the names of yet"
"deal"
Those 4 players you can develop them into good players
Uh haven't watched it yet but it should be pretty self evident - clubs want to offload their underperformers and gain quality players; it would be hard to find two clubs that think each others underperformer is really a quality gem worth acquiring
Not necessary an underperformer for a club could be an asset for another especially if we're talking abt a swap deal between 2 clubs of 2 different leagues as the exchanged players will be playing in a new environment with new players and coaches who fit in better with them...there's lots of ways of looking at this. Managers these days r smart they would want players who's abilities combine well with the current and present players of their team
@@liamdias2051 of course a good player might not work out at a certain club for whatever reason (think Sanchez at Utd), and there are times when trades make sense
But the hard part is convincing two clubs that they're both profiting from the deal, and no club is likely to agree to trade a proven star in such a deal
3:24 Big Up, Fergie ❤️
im suprised how simple and fun career mode makes this look
lol, then i am luck in this case.
almost 90% of the transfers i made in FMM is by swap deals, exchanging ageing yet valuable players with young superstars.
yeah, everything is way easier when one plays with imaginary money.
@@nimaxx 😂 exactly... i would think 100 times before doing so.
I do the same in my Fifa 14 career modes.
Draft picks make swap deals, or trades as we call them in America, much easier. But in a system where drafts don't exist, I'm not sure what the equivalent would be. Throwing in academy players?
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Can you please talk about pre-contracts on your next video.
Example of a swap deal with some success for both teams is Zlatan and Etoo.
It was 60-40 in inters favour
@@007Fusiion worked it for both teams :-)
Zlatan was a flop for barceloma
There needs to be a video on the Newcastle United takeover saga
To be fair to Ireland, he had a hard time having to deal with the loss of his granny 3 times.
Yes. He lost his paternal grandma, his maternal grandma and a grandma he didn’t even know about.
@@007Fusiion I wonder how his fourth grandma is getting on? Surely she hasn't been born yet?
@@burkezillar she died before he was born, it's his 5th one who's still alive, celebrated her 96th birthday in June, unsure if Ireland attended the party though
That was actually to cover up his girlfriend's miscarriage. I'm sure you could have some sympathy for him
One swap deal that pops out at me is Ashley Cole/William Gallas. Cole went on to have success with Chelsea, but Gallas, not so much...
With all their knowledge base how does a club not hire the Tifo crew to help them manage their club
That’s a good question
You’ve obviously never seen me in FIFA 21. A very American approach to transfer season
I think there's a really simple reason why a swap deal is so rare. It's generally a way to offload a player you don't want. It's always a little concering to take on a player that you know the other team doesn't want, either because he's injury prone or simply not good enough.
How did Mislintat confirm for Dortmund that we would be offloading Auba when Mislintat left for Arsenal a month before Auba left for the Gunners? That doesn't quite make sense in the story
As a Liverpool FC fan... The fact that Arsenal and Utd got raw deals with the swap deals still elates me to this day
Villa swapping Milan Baros for John Carew, great deal
In baseball and most American sports trades are the norm and "cash considerations" are more rare
lol imagine if each league had the NBA type platform of moving players around through trades and free agency
Callum Robinson and Oliver Burke is a swap deal that worked well for 1 coub but not another
The Arthur-Pjanic swap was one of the dumbest transfers I’ve seen
Same argument of that there isn't two players worth the exact same also applies in the NBA, yet all trades are normally swaps
Fergie, what a champion. Growing up watching the PL as a child in Aus, I always thought Fergie was a pr%*k. But man, he looked after players. What a champion. Absolute respect!
SAF really said homie you can get better than that fr 💀
I’m surprised nobody brought Origi from Lfc. He was good against the famous Milano.
Hopefully West Ham buy him for example.
The transfer period closed 17 days ago
How is Riqui Puig still at Barcelona? He's played like 500 minutes in the last 4 years it's a career that is quickly being flushed down the drain. A very talented boy who could start at a club like Borrusia Monchegladbach or Leverkusen (or a midtable La Liga club). Something's got to give surely.
3:40 - wow. I'm not surprised at how persuasive Fergie can be, more that he would actually do that for an outgoing player. Good man.
A request
Could tifo football do a sensible transfer about Barcelona of the next possible coaches
Swaps always work a lot better on fifa career mode than irl
Wasn't Mislintat at Arsenal when Arsenal signed Auba from BVB?
Zlatan Ibra swap deal with Samuel Etoo
Surprise didn't use rebic and Andre silva as reference
"So now let's have a look at the deals that don't happen"
Looks at a deal that happened
After watching *THE LAST DANCE* , I found out swap deals are a common practice in the U.S sports scenes but of course very rare in Europe. Especially Football. or as they call it "Soccer"
that's basketball though
@@xastric6944 their baseball & American Football also "trade" players regularly
rebic - andre silva swap deal deemed pretty good for both teams involved imo
I never miss a tifo video no matter what. The level of analysis and football knowledge is top notch. I even wonder who has the guts to give Tifo a thumbs down😡
Arthur and Pjanic was the funniest😂
i always do swap deals on PES or FIFA games lol..
I'm genuinely curious why this system works in american sports but not in europe
Same. The whole Transfer window structure I found interesting getting into football/growing older. I find really cool but I think it’s something useful especially so you aren’t left empty handed (player wise obviously). And in sometimes some players shouldn’t have a say especially when they’re playing so atrociously bad for you team. *Cough* *cough*...Fred🙄😒 LOOOL
It likely helps that it is within the league itself and I think agents in the US work a little different in Europe. Those draft picks likely help too.
They also have a salary cap and many players will be paid fixed percentages in accordance with the cap. They also trade the entire contract, so there are more like-for-like comparisons. Also, in the NBA at least there's only 5 players on the court so easier to imagine how someone would fit in
One big reason is Financial Fair Play and how Player depreciation works. Arthur-Pjanic deal is a posterboy for that.
easy, players in basketball dont have much say in trades ( Excluding outside factors like loyalty or face of an organization ) . While in football, you'd have to sign a new contract with the team you're swapped or sold to; which basically needs you to agree to it
Player A has a different asset-valuation to Player B, just like my pack of cigarettes has a different asset-valuation to your bar of chocolate, making barter difficult in the case of the cigarettes and chocolate, and also making a swap-deal difficult in the case of Player A and Player B. Swap-deals in the football transfer-market are rare for EXACTLY the same reasons that barter is rare in the everyday economy. We have this very abstract thing which we call "MONEY" - it exists in order to be a common medium of exchange, making translation between the values of different assets and commodities possible. Marx classifies money itself as a type of commodity, but that's a long story. My point is that NOTHING particular or specific to the football transfer-market makes barter in that market more difficult than barter in the everyday economy.
You have a player I want. I have a player you want. They're of highly comparable valuations, ages, current salaries, etc. And the timing is right....
That's about as rare as:
You have a bottle of single-malt Scotch I want. I have a bottle of Cognac you want. Comparable valuations, perfect timing, etc....
You see, swaps are rare EVERYWHERE and for the same reasons everywhere, not only in the football transfer-market.
In other words, this video is an exercise in pseudo-analytical banality. A person who didn't even know that a game named "association football" existed would still already know everything which this video explains before they watched it.
Except that other leagues have been swapping players, rights (including draft picks), and other conditions for DECADES. And it's not just USA, Hockey is the king of trading players. Trading across league boundries COULD run into contract issues. But I suspect that a lot the cash for players bit is so skimming is easier. Besides, the most famous player sale in US sports ended famously badly for the seller, so much so that people invoked a"curse". Do note that US leagues generally buy contracts when dealing with other leagues (including "posting" Japanese players, and buying up independent minor leaguers). But "in league" a trade can almost always be made to work, with or without cap. They don't have to be "comparable" either, just fill a need, or get the player you need now, in exchange for some players who are stuck on the depth chart..
"They're often not successful" Idk, I'd rather have the price of failure be an asset I was comfortable parting ways with anyways, than vas sums of loaned money. Think about it, what if Barça would've offered Atlético a trade package including. Suárez, Vidal, and Rafinha for Griezmann instead of how it actually went?
unless Atleti's run by an idiot, it would never happen. what kind of logic is it to trade away your best player who happen to be (at the time) the top five player in the world for an aging striker with high salary, an aging good midfielder you don't need because you're stacked in that position, and a bust? trade has to be good for both sides.
If there was a rule that only swap deals were allowed and no cash buys, it would make things more interesting. Players would have more of a say on their moves and the smaller clubs would benefit in gaining quality
What about Kroos-Alonso swap??
The 4th love you tifo so amazing
It doesn't seem that complicated still. They don't have to be perfectly equal in every way. Contracts can be re-negotiated and you can do player plus cash.
This begs the question though, why are these types of deals so common in North America?
is arthur pjanic considered a swap deal? then probably it is one of the worst swap deals
Another reason why swap deals are rare is because money is a much more versatile asset compared to a player,so you can spread the money you gain from a transfer in various aspects of your club.
Toni kroos - xabi alonso
Arthur - pjanic
Ashley Cole - William Gallas
I wonder if all teams are introduced a hard spending cap in the transfer window, that would encourage teams to perform more swap deals.
Unlikely. The reason why "swap deals" happen in the North American sports is because you cant just buy someone for $. You HAVE to swap either another player or draft picks. Players in NA sports also dont have the same control over their situations. A player cant just derail a trade because they dont feel playing for that team unless a no-trade clause is negotiated into the contract.
@@SuccimusPrime that is a fair point. Especially in football you could argue that players have a lot of power on whether an agreed transfer goes through or not, based on the the offered wages/bonuses to said player
@@SuccimusPrime
You trade someone based on the value of the contract. The reason why teams offer picks and another player is because the club may be trying to create cap space to sign better players. This will depend if your team is rebuilding and you’re trying to sell your best players for more picks or contending.
Imagine if a football club has a pick to receive a good youngster in your academy? Technically, you just gave that club the rights to own that player.
But why do Newcastle and Sunderland have to swap players?
okay tifo but what about jadson and pato swap, that was the most important of the last twenty years
Yeah, but why are they so common (comparatively) In US sports.