Boeing's plan to make the F-15 a 'stealth' fighter
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- čas přidán 20. 01. 2022
- Back in 2009, Boeing’s Silent Eagle aimed to make the world’s most prolific air superiority fighter into something more by injecting stealth into the F-15’s legendary DNA. The result may have been the most broadly capable F-15 the world had ever seen, delivered just in time to compete with what would become a foreign sales powerhouse, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
Read the full story: www.sandboxx.us/blog/silent-e...
Special thanks to Lockheed Martin and Boeing for the use of their promotional materials in this video.
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The F-15EX ended up with most of the upgrades that the F-15SE had...Conformal fuel tanks, Fly by wire, RAM coatings, the F-35's AESA radar, upgraded electronic warfare suite.
It still would have been cool to have F-15's with the canted tails, internal weapons,etc.
I wonder why they didn’t do the canted tail on the EX considering how huge the benefits seemed to be?? Maybe just too expensive to implement? Idk
I loved the Strike Eagle. I spent 6 1/2 years working on them.
I love the F-15C eagle I spent 8 1/2 years working on the pratt&whitney F-100-220 turbo fan engines
Cool! I wish I was as lucky as you guys.
@@SteamTrainTy all you have to do is join the Air Force and tell them you want to be a Crew Chief. Score high on the ASVSB in mechanical.
@@marcusjames3814 220s are what we had on the E models I worked on. 229s we’re on the newer ones out at Lakenheath and Mountain Home.
Yep your right I was out eglin mcdill Edward's and nellis
100:0 kill ratio can't be faulted. It may be much older and cheaper than the F-22 or 35, but it's still an incredible aircraft. Stealth, would make it even more formidable in that role.
Yeah but against the f-35, its 20-1. Other way around though
The F-22 and F-35 are the formula one of steal attacking capabilities from fighters. These new upgrades to the likes of F-16, F-15 and F-18 will give them some really impressive capabilities at a lower price point and also allow to fill in the gaps in the F-35 production cycle output.
The F15 is not that much cheaper than a F35.
I'm wondering how things would be if the money, and time spent on stealth had instead be put into defensive systems that stop incoming missiles...
@@redandgearhead Initial cost, no. Lifetime cost the F-35 is much more expensive. That's why the U.S. is beefing up it's F-15's. They actually cost a little more than the F-35's upfront, but over their lifetime they are cheaper to maintain.
This just goes to show how well designed the 4th Gen fighter jets are. The F-15 and F-18 especially have had such longevity in the US Air Force it's almost impossible for me to imagine if they'll ever be retired.
@@ObsydianShade he got the country right.
Both of them will be in service for the next 30-40 years because they still get the job done, the newer stealth airframes will kick the doors in and the 4 the gen aircraft will finish the job, look at what happened in Iraq, complete destruction of their air defense system in 48 hours, followed by destroying any of their air force still on the ground or air, minus the ones that ran to I ran, all done with cruise missiles and f117s, imagine how much more effective the f22's/f35s will be with the new b21 raiders would be the current air force doctrine in a conflict is air superiority, and nobody does it better...
The F-15 has such longevity because it was massively overspec'ed to fight a foe that didn't exist. So at the point where any other plane would be fading into history, the Eagles are becoming ordinary instead of extraordinary.
In conclusion... Bad Foxbat intel, we salute you!
There are still thousands of 4th gen fighters, and will be for a long time. There are only a hand full of countries that can afford to operate them. Hell, the Russians can't do it. The Felon hasn't been seen over Ukraine because it probably is like the F15 SE only stealthy and not stealth.
Why build a stupidly expensive stealth fighter to deal with 4th gen? Its like paying millions to an MMA fighter to beat up some white belt judo 5 year olds when $10 to a big purple belt should be more than enough.
Once enemy air defense are suppressed even a WW2 fighter is sorta safe, at least until it gets spotted by an enemy fighter sweep. Do they even do that anymore?
The, F15 "stealth" variant was actually funded by all of the foreign buyers (money) that were and are still buying the F15s. A couple of countries actually completely funded, 100% of new developments for the F15 upgrades. It's the ONLY fighter platform the US manufacturers, where foreign money/buyers paid for all of the upgrades that the US was able to benefit from.
I loved the stealth version of the F-14 Super Tomcat. That fighter looked absolutely deadly.
It would be a dream,cos Tomcat is a Tomcat.^^
Another BS video. All of you need to grow up.
God yes, the f14 was my favorite major jet the US ever used. It was fast, maneuverable, and the range was insane thanks to those wings.
I wonder why the F-15EX Eagle II didn't incorporate the canted vertical tails... would've helped with reduced Radar Cross-Section (and it looks sexy).
they have to have calculated that the reduction in radar cross section wasn’t enough to make a difference in how they would use the F-15EX fleet, even if it might save a few planes from being shot down.
@@patrick-po2lx the f-15EX is intended as a missile truck. Basically a fire everything when ready kind of aircraft. So wouldnt making the vertical stabilizers canted allow it to increase aerodynamics. Which is important when majority of the aircrafts weight is due to the weapons.
Because the EX needed to be inexpensive. Most people don't understand logistics.
@@FirstDagger do canted tails cost that much more than the original straight vertical tails?
I don't think the reduction would matter enough, but I still wonder why they wouldn't as it does add the extra lift and range
Even today, the F-15 is one bad ass, capable bird. Undoubtedly still one of the best fighters in the sky, going on half a century.
@ Breaking News Today Urgent biden goes for Ice Cream again.
Urgent obiden press briefing was canceled again because he flung poo at the journalist asking him questions
its why the F22 is done in a few years
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@ Breaking News Today they have been doing that for as long as i have been alive same with china its nothing new
also who cares about nuke subs when the world super powers have ICBMs that can hit any target in the world in the time it takes to deliver a pizza
also we have nuke subs watching them just like how their subs are watching us
thinks to M.A.D (mutual assured destruction) the super powers are not dumb enough to star an all out war because the next world war will make the world uninhabitable
I visited the Wings Over the Rockies Air and Space Museum and I saw an F-14 and several other planes, like the Blackbird, and you just don't really understand how large they are just by looking at their definitions. The F-14 was probably three times as large as it appears on film and and it's just awe inspiring to see such a large plane that is so huge and it only transports one or two people. The rest is arms of course, but the whole body of the plane is engine and wing and the place for the people is just tiny.
Yeah tomcats are massive.
@@JamesLaserpimpWalsh
When I was in the Navy, when we were on WestPac with a carrier, we used to go topside and watch the F-14s take off on full afterburner and then climb straight up. It was badass. You could feel it in your chest.
Worked on all F-14 variants. I was on Det to Key West with an F-18 squadron. Some Tomcats from VX-4 flew in. The young guys in my Hornet squadron couldn't believe how large they were.
I remember seeing Tomcats take off the flight deck of a carrier and accelerate straight up, afterburners glowing near white hot.
Was there last week didn’t see any SR-71 Blackbirds, but I did see the Tomcat.
We have Eagles stationed near us and get flyovers on a regular basis. "The Sound of Freedom" is pretty sweet!
As an Englishman, it makes me extremely proud that a fellow Countryman had such a large amount of influence on the amazing F-117 Nighthawk. 🇬🇧🇺🇸✌✌
Lots of extremely talented engineers were picked up by US aerospace companies following the cancellation of TSR2 and other British aircraft research projects
I've watched all of your airpower reports and find them all informative, helpful, and to the point.
No biased sides, just straight down the middle.
Well done for all your work. Amazing.
Man one of my favorite things about the f15 is the straight vertical stabilizers, looks so badass! It’s my favorite fighter with the f22 in a close second.
The, F15 "stealth" variant was actually funded by all of the foreign buyers (money) that were and are still buying the F15s. A couple of countries actually completely funded, 100% of new developments for the F15 upgrades. It's the ONLY fighter platform the US manufacturers, where foreign money/buyers paid for all of the upgrades that the US was able to benefit from.
The F15 is one of my favorite air craft as well. My father used to fly them and back in 95 he was able to take me up in one. Ill never forget it. Every time I would see one as our air support i always thought of that flight.
i’m not one to call someone out, but there is no way in hell a pilot can take his kid up in one,. Former 142nd FIG F-15C pilot here. only big celebs get too because they are good recruitment tools.
@@michaelbosisto6259 yeah in todays rules and regulations your absolutely right on what your said but thats post 2000-2001 back in the mid 90s it wasnt that big a deal. A lot of my friends that lived on base their dads would take them up as well usually it was our birthday present from our dads.
So how old were you? Did you do any G turns ? How fast did you go? You left all the good parts out man.
Sorry but I don't believe you one bit. You must have been dreaming kid. Not even the Maintenace Crew that works tirelessly and for years on these airplanes get to ride on them as a Thank you.
And I am giving you a brotherly and friendly advice that you'll become like your Dad who will also manage to turn into an Israeli --- trained,British --- trained and most of all, the U.S.A. ( And the Home of the Brave ) " Top Gun --- trained American invented,built and developed F --- 15 E.X. Strike Eagle 4th generation multi --- role fighter flight aviator or fighter pilot,James Barker.Semper Fidelis
Nicely done. I remember seeing a B1-B when I went to an airshow at Amberly AFB in Ipswich, Queensland, had to have been the late 80s. But seeing one of those things, was totally amazing. I admit that, I still have a lot of love for the F-111 Aardvark and the F1 Mirage. Two fantastic aircraft of that era, and I still think the F-111 could have been given boosts.
there was also four B1-Bs at Amberley in 2001 for an exercise, I was working on our F-111s at the time and got a guided tour from their ground crew, the things are very impressive, and it did one of the best airfield beatups I have ever seen, just under supersonic at tree top height straight down the centre of the main taxiway
right on.I worked on the F=111 at GD in waco,Tx.On the wing Hinge.
@@davidewhite69 I so wanted to thumbs down that comment, just out of sheer jealousy! LOL. That must have been amazing to see. I still have fond memories of living in Lowood, and our house was the designated turning point for the run towards the airstrip just over the hills above Lowood. They were so low one day in an F-111 that I could clearly see the pilot wasn't wearing his breather, and smiled and waved at me as I waved up at him. There'd be a huge complaint if some pilot flew his craft under 100m lol. Those guys were pretty damned awesome though. Also watching the Singaporean AF flying around the hills in their A4 Skyhawks like those little motorcycles in the ball at shows... they'd just scoot along. Coolest thing I did see though, was seeing a mig-29 from the former East Germany flying with a few different planes at the time....Thanks for the stroll down afterburner lane.
@@44razorback I have to admit to a bit of Aussie pride though, when our F-111 crews would kick arse at Red Flag. But it must have been awesome to work on such a fine craft. I did get to do a walkover on the wings of an f-18 when I visited my uncle, then also got to use the alignment controls of training bombs on the range down in Maitland, NSW. It was too cool. He was an armaments fitter on the gun in the F-18.
@@koldaussie My Dad was also in the RAAF, I remember when I was a young teenager watching the Singaporians in Hawker Hunters at Amberley! One day one Hunter couldnt lower his landing gear, so the fire fighters laid down foam on the airfield and the Hunter landed on its wing fuel tanks!
I worked on 86-0183, it was cool being at Edwards AFB and working on some of the most amazing planes in aviation history.
Excellent video. From the scope of information to the pace of the narration. Keep up the great work, Sandbox.
Found your channel a few days ago. I know this channel is going to blow up. Keep up the good videos
Love this channel. Lot's of relevant information without the fluff.
Thanks Alex. Really good stuff.
Also lots of irrelevant, incorrect fluff too.
People do this all the time with MiG-25, to ''insult'' it. Sure, I can see why people would want to insult it, after finding out more of it after the defection, because the Soviets flaunted it. But regardless of whats said, shown, portrayed - MiG-25 and MiG-31 afterwards never were designed or made as fighters. They were assigned to specified units for dispatch, ground radar controlled air defense. AKA, interceptor. Think F-106 not F-15. To which in the 70s, NOTHING was even close to it. We see this with the size, the visibility, speed, altitude - MiG-25 wasn't made for hostility. It was made for strategic interception. MiG-31 carries that out to this day, being just about impossible to counter unless a stealthed fighter. MiG-31s engagement range and powerful radar forces EVERYTHING to hit the deck into denser air to defend, at which point its done its job and its reduced its targets energy and speed
Good professional channel, Im very happy with the content you’re creating I could’ve watched this video for an hour, great job!👏
Even the enemies will admire the F-15 series. What an engineering marvel!!
Excellent video. The only problem I saw, or actually heard in this case, was on two occasions you referred to the engines as "ram jets". The F-15 does not use ram jets. It uses afterburning turbofan engines. But still a very awesome video. Keep up the great work.
Radar Absorbing Material Jets
@@dallynsr Ahh that's what it means?! Thank you!🇺🇸👍
The data you have is inaccurate. I happened to see, sorry, I meant _we_ , my navigator and I, happened to see an F-15 with ram jets doing a 4G dive. We were inverted.
@@spiritzweispirit1st638 im pretty sure ramjet is a name of an engine design
@@hailandfire1822 Alright, Maverick....
The idea of fighting a modern war with stealth missiles and aircraft is terrifying to a Surface to Air radar technician like me. Detecting threats as far away as possible is paramount to shooting down threats. With those threats incoming at multiples of the speed of sound there is almost no time to shoot down anti ship missiles. We routinely would deal with those threats a hundred miles away and would always shoot two missiles for each threat. Now that math does not work anymore. The next fleet action between near peer nations is going to be crazy. The ships will have to fight the battle themselves because no system with humans in it will be able to keep up. This was already known in the 1990’s but today with hypersonic missiles the ship will have to be in automatic 24/7 during wartime operations. That’s going to make a lot of friendly pilots nervous. Make sure your IFF is working brother!
Can I ask a question? You may not know the answer, but here it is. If you took a layer of composite material and put in wrinkled aluminum on top of the aircraft skin., would deflect the radar waves in all directions and make the plane harder to see?
First, the new ship defense laser systems will be able to react in plenty of time to shoot down a stealth missile if developed. Speed really does not matter due to simple math, especially with the laser defense system. Lastly, as I mentioned regarding stealth missile development, if anyone actually believes either the Russians or Chinese can develop these weapons I have a bridge to sell you. Russia is bankrupt and a good half their equip. is inoperable as they do not have the money to repair, plus they are a good 30 years behind the west in military tech in general. China has a better chance but their military budget is maybe 1/5th of the US at best. All this nonsense is just a means to justify an insane military budget. The US is the only nation on the planet with global conventional force capability. Neither the Russians nor Chinese have any true in-flight refueling capabilities and are limited to maybe about four or five refueling aircraft at best as all their military resources are designed for local theatre action only. This is why if Russian invades the Ukraine they will get their asses handed to them bigtime. My worry is Putin using battlefield nukes to even the playing field.
I see that the LaWS was successfully tested a few years ago, but it is designed to be used against “low end asymmetrical threats”.
Can any insider properly define this term.
@@tedwojtasik8781 Lasers are good, but they still face all the same problems normal CIWS does, since they need sustained “fire” on a single target to function well. They aren’t really meant to combat hypersonics or high-supersonics, more so drones or subsonic munitions.
China has a comparable military budget to the US when you adjust for PPP and add in categories they leave out such as R&D.
Neither Russia nor China has a well built up tanker aircraft fleet, but neither really need to. Russia’s interests are close by and land accessible, and Taiwan is within range of Chinese airbases and carriers.
I would bet that a bit of a terrifying scenario to ponder but i would think it would be even more so with the ability of today's weapons systems to provide and share info with datalinks and function in a networks capacity, Because even if your able to paint and fire at a target, if it paints you in turn and can hand your location off to a missle on a wingman or someone else farther away and even if you happen to splash the first one someone else might've already let one fly at you.
good coverage of the topic and exactness of technical aspects was awesome.good job
As a retired B-52 Avionics Tech I gotta show some love to the F-15. Boomer Bomber and Boomer fighter still in the game baby. Runnin and gunnin with the youngins
Stealth aircrafts are designed as stealth from the beginning from the inside out, stealth is not only about the shape and surface of the plane, it is also about its internal structure! The F-15 was not designed as a stealth plane so it would be very difficult and expensive to make it one!
What difference a stealth F15 and a F22 will be then? Might as well make more F22
It could make a pretty good 4.5 Gen fighter. And working in tandem with f22s and f35s through data link would allow It to be a force multiplier. A reduced cross section would allow it to get closer to targets without getting detected. Although more f35s would probably be a better purchase than a silent eagle
It’s not flat enough to be stealth.
Sure they can't rude the radar signature much, but stealth coating would still make it harder to spot than a normal Eagle or Strike eagle. And I think that's the point. It's an air superiority fighter that's being upgraded every day. This is just another upgrade added to its large arsenal
@@huiyinghong3073 unfortunately making more F22s will be pretty hard to do. They've been out for a hot minute. All they've been doing is upgrading them and strengthening the airframe but at this point they may need retire them since it cost so much just to keep them in service. I love the F22 since ace Combat 4 but even i can see its time to move on. The A10 should stay though. Hard to replace a CAS aircraft like that.
To be fair, the F-18 E/F and the B-1B, were both designed with stealth in mind, to have extra small RCS. Neither plane was "all-in" on stealth, but recognized that reducing detection range "somewhat" was an advantage. Neither the super hornet nor the Bone are as stealthy on radar as the SR-71. Silent Eagle was designed to do similar, to make the F-15 "less Not stealthy" rather than fully "stealth" (more like the super hornet or rafale). The vertical stabilizer angle change for the Silent Eagle is more about RCS than reducing drag or adding lift. Anyway, fully stealth designs focus on making far more compromises in performance on the altar of reducing RCS to a drastically small figure, in order to achieve a dominant lack of detectability. Semi-stealth(ish) 4 & 4.5 gen designs just seek a somewhat shorter average detection range, as a boon, rather than a dominant feature.
I'm a little disappointed that the F-15EX doesn't incorporate the Silent Eagle's features. But that would have boosted the price about 25%
6:51 they would have to remove the fuel tanks. That doesn’t work for why they want the new made f-15. F-35 is short range. They need the f-15 to do what the f-35 can’t. Deep strike, lingering bombing, interception.
I think the main issue for the F15 Silent Eagle was the air inlets that are by design totally anti-stealthy. And a redesign of the air inlets would be a very deep thus costly modification of the aerodynamic and structure of the plane losing most of the commonality benefits of such project.
@@sebc8938 Yeah, the air intakes are pretty boxy eh?
Without an armament bay, stealth is not achievable, because it increases the radar signature ! F22 and 35 are detectable if they carry external load.
@@TheBooban The F-15 silent eagle was a set of features to reduce RCS. Some of them would be impractical for what they want out of the F-15EX, I agree (the fuel tanks and payload capacity in particular). And you couldn't put very many missiles inside the fast packs (the cft's).
But there could have been some effort to reduce RCS a bit. In particular the vertical stabilizer angle. The rudders angle make quite a lot more difference to RCS than is explained in the video (and somewhat less difference to lift than the video suggests).
But it may simply not be realistic to make the F-15 "less" visible to radar. It has a huge RCS, and it has a huge payload capacity (with it's own RCS). So it may just not be worth putting resources towards a reduction in RCS.
Gotta admit that the angled tail fins look cool though :) And I'd love to see a blend of the F-15EX, the not so public F-15STOL proposal (which the MTD was really only a test platform for), and the silent eagle. It would make for a pretty cool plane. But not quite what the USAF wants from the EX.
The F-35 is not short range though. Since it's being sold to so many countries, I feel fairly safe pointing out it has 18,500 lbs internal fuel capacity, plus a potential 8,000 in 2 drop tanks. The drop tanks for the F-35 have attached pylons, so they drop clean from the wing and leave no attached pylon afterwards (returning to stealth mode "on the fly" pun intnended). So that's a realistic 26,500 lbs of fuel. Considering a variety of factors, like engine size, efficiency, and 1 vs 2 engines, plus the relative weight & drag of the F-15 with external ordinance and F-35 with internal ordinance... the F-35 (A model anyway) and F-15EX should have comparable range potential. They also have exactly the same optimal cruising speed. It creates interesting sortie options.
This has been a really well done video. Better than most military channels on YT.
Thank you. I am a USAF VET and I supported the Eagle along with the falcon,hog,phantom and helped build the C-17 IN MCDONNELL DOUGLAS/BOEING(YUK) JOB.
Article was awesome, this was icing on the cake. Love the concept of the F-15SE - I just have a weakness for old designs that might get booster tech, and make them more viable as they get older. Also, since I dabbled in the RF arena for a bit (Polar Diagrams anyone?), I can confirm, there is a lot of debate regarding RCS, and an even greater number of opinions and experts!
Radar cross section is highly dependent on direction of the transmit and received antennas AND frequency of the signal. RAM coatings are most effective at absorbing short wavelength signals from targeting radars and radar guided missiles (which simply doesn't have the space for the large antennas needed for longer wavelength signal) on top of this, long wavelength signal require correspondingly larger radar elements to achieve the same resolution. So search radar often operate using longer wavelengths which is harder to design aircraft to be stealthy, but targeting radars typically operate at much shorter wavelengths, so the AA missiles may have a harder time locking on until the range is much closer.
Love your videos, brings back many memories of testing those conformal tanks at Langley back in 83 I loved the Eagle, Damn good channel
I’ve loved the Eagle like for a long time and it’s great to see she’s still in service
Hornet too in the Navy
The F-15 design development began during the Vietnam, but It did not "dog fight" in Vietnam as the war was over when the first deliveries were made to the Air force.
Good thing for the enemy pilots too, otherwise. The end of war kill ratio would have been alot worse for them.
I'm pretty sure he meant the design team of the F-15 took many lessons learnt from the dogfights over Vietnam.
The F14A were in the Vietnam war
@@junxianwu1874 The F-15 actually flew while the Vietnam war was still going.
The F-15 first flew in 1972 and entered service in 1974.
The US lost the war in 1973 and the war ended in 1975, so the did not fly in Vietnam, but already flew during the war timeframe. The F-15 technology is mid 1960s technology. There are only about 10 years between the F-4 and F-15 program.
@@xyzaero9656 The Eagle first flew in July 1972, and entered service in January 9th, 1976.
Having ran PARs on F-16s and the 117, the F-16 barely registered even on a PAR scope back in the 1990s. It was almost as hard to see as the 117. The regular approach radar might see a small blip occasionally that was smaller than a little flock of birds. That's not to say I know a thing about radar systems, because I don't. I'm sure there are much more sensitive as well as different systems than an airbase's ATC system.
Well done, thank you for producing and posting
This video turned out to be way more interesting than I initially thought it would be.
Combine this with the F-15S/MTD ACTIVE, the F-15 2040C, the Advanced Eagle, and the F-15EX, I give you my proposed F-15F! XD
Great video. Boeing really took the time to make the silent eagle concept a viable one, but customer preferences and competing technology make for a different bird. Perhaps a hybrid or faux stealth , still effective if using the right tactics.
Check out the F15-EX, that is what will be released as weapon support for 5th Gen fighters.
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If the ES is the same as the EX, I would love to see it come back... The fact Israel had one wing sheared off, and it still flew, it was awesome.
I was thoroughly unimpressed by the stealth capabilities of the Silent Eagle the moment you pointed out that applying RAM all over the aircraft would shrink its RCS to a little larger than an F-16. Not that reducing it that much is bad, but that it would still be less stealthy than a stock Viper.
Presumably a clean Viper vs the SE with an internal payload. Try selling F-35 in beast mode.
"a little larger than an F-16. Not that reducing it that much is bad, but that it would still be less stealthy than a stock Viper."
No, no, no. They are comparing the RCS values of the airframe only. Meaning the airframe with *_absolutely nothing_* on it for the F-16. And you are going to have bags on an Viper. And you are going to have a ton of externals. That makes the radar cross section exponentially higher. An F-15 Silent Eagle with internal weapons stores would have a much lower RCS value than a Viper with external stores.
The desire to have internal weapon stores on stealth aircraft is because external stores do that much to compromise your radar profile. That's a lot of stuff to bounce radar returns off of. And, sure, you can make external drop tanks/bags less observable than usual... But it's still going to be adding to the RCS. And things like missiles with control surfaces? That isn't something you can really minimize without designing a new weapon or variant to do away with that. And it would still be adding to the RCS.
This is also why there is contention with the F-35 because as soon as it starts seeing more use, people are going to want to put external stores on it - whether it be even just bags or weapons. And it's going to happen. Not long after F-22s entered service within a few years we were already seeing them with pylons and external fuel tanks. Almost every F-22 at Elmendorf AFB has bags on them due to the ranges involved covering that airspace. The nice thing about the F-22's pylon mounts, however, is that they are jettisoned along with the entire fuel tank instead of just the fuel tank itself. Expensive, but once jettisoned it doesn't compromise stealth anywhere near as much as normal pylons.
Maybe the F-15SE's radar signature isn't "legit stealth", but it's vastly better than the original F-15 while retaining all of the benefits that made the F-15 such a popular vehicle when it was released, and includes several other improvements as well. It's a highly flexible aircraft that now no longer shines like a lighthouse in the night.
Anyway, stealth can be completely defeated by VHF radio and large stationary antenna arrays. Those may be difficult to deploy in the field, but they're easy to install near fixed locations that are known to be on the enemy's priority-targets list. So if you're going up against an enemy that had a long time to build up their defenses, stealth is not particularly useful.
@@deusexaethera the 1 who said F-15SE RCS not smaller than F-16 is not expert from McDonnell Douglas nor Boeing. If F-15SE is coated in same stealth layers as F-35 export variant, then the F-15SE would be stealth having less RCS than not just F-16 but Rafale & EF2000 as well. The F-15SE has stealth with internal payload whereas with external payload would have low RCS.
@ Breaking News Today BS
The F-15 and F-18 in particular have been in service with the USAF for so long that I can barely imagine them ever being retired.
The F-15 needs to be shown some love I was in the 8th grade during the 1st Gulf War. I remember reading about the actions of the F-15 and all it's success. I remember getting up close to one when the 128th had and open house at the airport and it was extremely impressive up close along with the A-10 with that massive Avenger gatling gun. This aircraft is still extremely capable and will be for years to come.
The, F15 "stealth" variant was actually funded by all of the foreign buyers (money) that were and are still buying the F15s. A couple of countries actually completely funded, 100% of new developments for the F15 upgrades. It's the ONLY fighter platform the US manufacturers, where foreign money/buyers paid for all of the upgrades that the US was able to benefit from.
I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on the 75 extra miles from tail lift. The F-15 has positive static margin, meaning its CG is forwards of the neutral point. In order to fly straight and level it needs a bit of positive pitch trim, which is accomplished by negative lift on the elevator. If the canted V-stabs were to generate positive lift then they would add a pitch down moment the H-stabs would have to counteract by pitching up even more, creating more drag. If the canted V-stabs generate negative lift then it'd relieve some of the load from the H-stabs, but because of its shallow angle and shorter distance from the CG, the V-stabs would have to be much more loaded than the H-stabs to generate the same pitching moment, meaning they'd experience lower L/D and thus more drag.
The *only* way this is true is if they in fact moved the F-15's CG backwards substantially so that moving the CL backwards a bit actually reduces the total pitching moment.
underrated comment
While i would be inclinced to agreee with you and would not call into question your assertions since you seem to know whats what i would just point out that 75 to 100 extra miles is really nothing when you consider in regards to the overall range, It really sounds more like a tiny data point that ended up being highlighted as prime marketing wank, i feel like its akin to smoothing over rivets really and doesnt seem like a lot to me. Also idk how you can conceptualize it just because most fighters are set up to be aerodynamically unstable or close to it so that they can better perform maneuvers for dog fighting, i know the generals for flight still apply but i feel like on more advanced designs that it doesnt always seem to follow common sense in how things actually work, Given computer aided designs and CFD in more modern aircraft designs things can get funky.
What would everyone say if they made an F-15 replacement that was stealth but kept a lot of the attributes of the F-15 form or outline? That would be something I'd love to see. Even in concept art.
At an airshow i got to sit my rear end in a F-15 i was astounded! How I felt at ease in an F-15 cockpit! It fit perfect. I was one happy trooper thinking of the honor of doing so.God bless the air force.Thankyou. A patriot American.
Always perfect! Thanks alex!
It's not just the internal weapons bays and radar absorbing paint. The air intakes need to be serpentine or have an s-shaped path to prevent radar waves from getting a direct shot into the front fans of the engines. The f-15 has these huge air intakes that go straight into the front fans which reflect a lot of radar signal.
Question, on every fighter I can think of, the intakes are canted toward the ground in various degrees. Would it not be just as effective at ingesting tremendous volumes of air if they were canted upward, which should help lower the cross section on ground based
radar? Probably not a very good question but I'm no aeronautical engineer...just curious.
@@walterrichards1802 well I looked up this excellent question because some aircraft do have dorsal air intakes, like the B-2 bomber, and the specific reason is that this does help with shielding the engine fan blades from radar.
The main reason fighters generally have ventral air intakes is that this improves performance at high angles of attack - the dorsal air intakes can't get as much air as ventral ducts at high angles of attack. Jet fighters in general need the ability to climb very rapidly, which is where the ability to gulp in as much air as possible at high angles of attack come into play.
Thank you for the explanation on the reason for ventral intakes. Makes sense when I visualize the effect of maneuvering the aircraft, especially in a combat situation.
As does the SU-52 Felon. (Intakes). Not really stealthy.
Great video very interesting 👍 liked it recon they should have kept making raptors though
BRILLIANT plane development, and a solid video.
Whether or not it actually has a purpose to exist, the F-15SE is probably one of the prettiest Eagle variants I've seen proposed.
It's amazing how the slight cant of the vertical fins on the tail makes such a difference on the radar cross-section. Imagine the radar cross-section if they didn't need verticle fins, stabilators, or wings? We'd have a tic-tac. Great radar avoidance, but how the heck would it fly?
*coughs in YF-23* *laughs in B-2*
Not really. It makes a huge difference at the sides because a fully vertical stabilizer makes a 90-degree angle with the horizontal stabilators and/or the wings, but it doesn't make a difference in the most important front quadrant. It's certainly better than nothing, but other fighters, such as the F/A-18, have always suffered less at the sides because their vertical stabilizers have always been canted, and the F-16, despite being bad at the sides because of its single vertical stabilizer, is considered stealthier because its frontal RCS is so much smaller.
For the F-15 to be as stealthy as possible where it counts the most takes other entirely different measures. Canting the vertical stabilizers does nothing for that, and is a secondary modification.
@@piotrd.4850 The proposed F-23 was also very good at side and rear stealth, but it was inferior to the F-22 in most respects. Go check it out online if you haven't yet. If you can't tell why it was inferior to the F-22, then I'll be happy to explain why I think so, and you can help me figure out if I'm full of crap or not. 😁 But I don't think I am. Pay particular attention to the design of its weapon bays and inlets.
The YF-23 was just a demonstrator based on an earlier design iteration, and would never have been produced. It was more different from the F-23 than the YF-22 was from the F-22, and while fans like to tout that it was faster, it was only faster by Mach 0.02, and the F-23 would probably have been slower because of its revised inlets.
Damn, thats the description of many ufos.
Halfing your RCS doesn't result in much benefit. If a regular eagle could be detected at 200km then something with half its RCS would be detected at ~170km (halfing your RCS only reduces your detected range to 84% that of the normal aircraft as power is proportional to RCS/R^4). If you fly lower to the ground and terrain mask you can significantly increase your stealthiness AND with extra fuel on board, the lower altitude resulting a higher burn rate shouldn't affect your combat range too much... Stealth is hard because unless you're changing your RCS by a few/several orders of magnitude, it's just doesn't pay off much.
Now it they had reduced the RCS by 100 (5cm, 31% of the range or 200km > 63km) or 1000 (5mm, 18% of the range or 200km > 36 km) then maybe it would've had utlity. But it didn't so the stealth eagle was just a fancy regular eagle with less range and firepower.
And yes, if the F35 only has an RCS of a ping pong ball (4cm), it would mean a radar which detects an F-15 at 200km, would detect the F-35 at... 60 km. Basically just double the number of radar sites you have and hey presto you're stealth resistant.
Of course it's far more complicated than that. When threatening aircraft have the RCS of birds, how do you tell what's a bird and what's a threat? So there's some utility with well done stealth aircraft I guess.
Did like the canted tail though.
Great info, thanks.
Except if you can only detect the F-35 at 60km then using glide bombs it can likely strike at the radars from beyond their protected radius.
Seeing and firing are very different at around 20km they’d fire and at that point they are ash
Well researched. I learned quite a bit.
Immensely intriguing! Thank you for the look at this dual view: one of history, the other of a look to the near future.
Super Hornets and F16s have stealth coating and some physical features to reduce their RCS to about half their actual size. Having exterior mounted hard points with munitions just wont allow much more than that. Any sizable amount of reduction can can cause just enough deviation to Radar guided munitions that can save lives. It increases the chance of successful defensive maneuvers by a decent margin. It can even confuse proximity detonations when missiles close in. Its a well tested capability. I can only imagine it would be even more effective with the F15 having superior top speed, acceleration, and high speed performance. Some will say that after the adoption of the F22 in 2005, The F15C is more of a reserve air superiority fighter. While it would be a safer and likely more effective option to use the F22 in that role, The F15E has no stealth counterpart. It carries over twice as many munitions for air to air and ground, than the F35. With twice the range too! The F35 fills more of the F16s role for saturation strikes.
However, that many exterior mounted munitions on the Strike Eagles fuselage likely negates most stealth features. Not worth the upgrade if it isnt effective. Unless stealthy bombs and missiles are developed and deemed cost effective. We already sacrifice 10s to 100s of thousands on targeting systems for each guided weapon used. Stealth coating for each probably isn't worth it. The internal weapons bays on the F15SE wouldnt carry much. While the conformal fuel tanks are good, no external tanks reduces its range. Stealthy munitions and tanks have questionable effectiveness as of now anyway. This all defeats its purpose. It would just be an alternative for the F35s role. The F15E/EX have their place as flexible high speed long range multirole fighter bombers. Sensor fusion data links allow them to be payload carriers for forward stealth aircraft inside Radar defense networks. Even for air to air.
Okay
to make F15 stealthy, they'll need to redesign the nose (from rounded to folded), air intake, wings, vertical stabilizer..... wonder how much Boeing will ask for R&D on this one
How much you gonna charge boeing for your expertise?
The Foxbat wasn’t even a fighter jet. It was an interceptor, designed to intercept and shoot down bombers. It had a top speed of Mach 3, and a ceiling of well over 100,000 ft! It was a beast, the world record holder, but it couldn’t dog fight.
Hats off to the Yanks, the F-15 has been, and is a superlative aircraft. RESPECT from the UK.
Considering the basic F-15 airframe is one of the most durable ever flown. IE the time one flew back missing a wing and more. I really think the F-15 could get a complete undress and redress. Kind of like putting a kit car body on. If they could make an adequate wing design and layout and outer shell the standard airframe could be kept up to the wing pylons. Could basically make it look like the f22 and f35 had a child
The problem is Boeing is not the old Boeing. koff, koff Starliner, 737 Max.
@@1968gadgetyo Boeing has gotten shit because of Mcdonnel Douglas. But the F15 was a Mcdonnel Douglas design anyways.
I don't think it counts in this case.
The F-15 EX is basically a totally new F-15.
New wing, new forward central fuselage, new cockpit fuselage barrel, new cockpit, new avionics, new full FBW instead of a mechanical/hydraulic flight control system ….
There is nothing more to change … the EX is called ESGOE 2 (!!!) for a reason.
You don't know anything about stealth design. the F15 is a perfect reflector to radar waves. Its hull needed to be compltely redesigned to be stealth.
Correct on the Airframe. The F14 Tomcat imo was the WORST airframe. The plane was always shaking and had a tendency to flame out at a steep AOA and go into unrecoverable spins.
Great video, super interesting. Oh the wayward F-22 program. You should look at the concepts they were developing on Ward Carrols site for the F-14s to try and keep them in production.
Brother, why the hate for the Raptor?
@@ebiyeyanga8003 I don’t think it’s hate for the raptor, just the trust in a proven design
The F14 has been out of production for more than 20 years. It will never come back.
The F22 was not a wayward program. You morons just want to criticize anything you can. The F14 was a massively wayward program, but you seem to like it now. All advanced planes have issues in the beginning. The F4, F16, F14, F15, F22 and F35 were all called disasters in the beginning. The F22 and F35 have had fewer issues than any of the other planes.
@@kokomo9764 I’m not hating on the Raptor but tell me why we only have 160 in service? And your missing my point entirely. McDonnald Douglas tried multiple design reviews to try and extend the life of the program. I said nothing about it coming back at any point. Who’s the moron now?
@@ebiyeyanga8003 no hate. It’s a great plane but it just didn’t reach its production points for multiple reasons. I wish we had 2,000 of them in service not 160.
Excellent clarification on signature values & internet sources. ATF numbers were Level IV, TS SAR, during DEM/VAL and I'm confident that security wasn't relaxed any. Good report 👍
Great vid just curious have u done one on the Super Tomcat 21 yet
Eh, the MIG-25 may not have been a dogfighter but that doesn't mean it wasn't capable or scary. It did what it was designed to do pretty well, which is high speed interception.
It was meant to intercept the B70 mach 3 Valkrie bomber that was canceled.
I've read that another advantae that most Soviet aircraft had was that they were designed to handle 'unimproved' runways. In contrast, ours are more finicky in the conditions in which they fight and are launched.
@@gregparrott True. The Russians learned after the second World War that when you have an enemy on your doorstep you can't guarantee the safety of your airbases, so Soviet aircraft were always designed with very rugged landing gear. I've even seen Mig 21's landing in grass fields.
@@gregparrott Its not like they had a choice, most of their airfields were WW 2 ready and come the jet age they found it easier to adapt the airplane, than to put down a lot of concrete.
Does the MiG 25 have "ramjet" inlets? I thought it had standard engines that needed overhaul after Mach 3 flights.
IKR. I asked that same question. lol
@@b.griffin317 Agreed. Was said twice....
Ya, and the overhaul was basically new engines. It could do Mach 3 in a straight line for a small amount of time, but it burned everything up in the process.
It wasn't as much an overhaul of the blowers in the MiG-25 when it was flown at full chat as it was a case of rip 'em out, scrap them and shove a new pair in.
For all its faults though (of which there are many), I do love the look of the big, red bastard. With those massive inlets and ridiculously enormous outlets, its flush canopy and that big, long beak sticking way out at the front, they looked mean as hell.
@@bigal3055 Oh hell yeah. It's like brutalism in aerodynamic form. Completely Soviet.
"F-15 is like Robocop with a shotgun that has a silencer" Spot on example! Lol
F-15 be like please let me die with a perfect record
The F22 radar cross section was shown to compare with one eight or three milimetre metal ball. Funny stories of people not believing and checking by sight, even testing if their detectors were working, powered up.
@ Breaking News Today Why would Russia need to ship nukes to Cuba (again)? This isn't 1962, they have sub-launched nuclear missiles which can reach their targets in 15 minutes or less.
The F-15 still looks awesome 50 years later.
I would love to see the future of this fighter. This baby has a ton of capabilities
Uma máquina elegante e espectacular! Á frente no seu tempo! Não tem adversários á altura. Ainda bem que os reconverteram. Era uma pena retirarem do activo estes excelentes aviões.
It's such an F-You fighter. So glad to see the USAF transfering them into missile-trucks, post generation 4. At this rate the B52 might have competition from its stablemate in years to come.
WoW this was a badass video. Thank You! Just learned a bit more about the Eagle. I get why, other than pricing and further development into a new F22 version the Eagle has been upgraded in so many ways to compliment the F35 or vice-versa. Eagle will be the front Knight while F35 will back up the Eagle with powerful intelligence while the Eagle will be also stealthy.
The Eagle has no stealth capabilities whatsoever.
@@xyzaero9656 I watched the video and Im pretty sure I saw the SE version having a weapon interior compartment and they're also get stealth radar absorption treatments. If thats not stealth, what is it to you?
@@xyzaero9656 either way, that work horse complimenting an intelligent F35 would be devastating for any opposed squadron going against a F35-F15 squadron.
@@ZaChYmO yust go for a full F-35 fleet without the F-15 drawbacks. The F-35 undergoes development to carry oversized munitions as we speak and therefore there is no more (US) need for the F-15
@@ZaChYmO That does not make it a stealth plane. The Typhoon, Rafale and basically all modern 4th Gen jets have RAM coatings but that has nothing to do with a real stealth jet. One can not retrofit stealth.
Nice to hear this read live rather than a robot voice. Great content
I'm machining parts today for the F-15. Been doing so for 42 years.
The video should have mentioned the biggest drawback of it: Only really having any meaningful stealth attributes from directly ahead. From any other direction, those advantages quickly fell away.
It's a problem which is suspected to play majorly into Russia's and China's efforts, who don't even incorporate sawtooth nozzles for rear stealth enhancement.
I believe the lack of sawtooth nozzles is because both the Russian and the Chinese stealth fighters are waiting for there new proper bespoke 5th gen fighter engine to be finished then they'll install stealthy nozzles along with the proper engines.
The Su-57 also has a non-stealthy IRST ball and a straight seam on the front part of the canopy where it opens and closes, while the F-22's and F-35's canopies are seamless, and I think the J-20's is, too. There are other details on the Su-57 that indicate that it is not a full-fledged, wholehearted effort at being a VLO stealth fighter. That's how the Indian Air Force viewed it, and they got to see its classified data, too.
I haven't given the J-20 a close examination yet, but I bet that it has stealth issues, too. It's a gawky looking fighter, by the way. I kind of like how it exposes its dogfighting missiles with the doors closed, although that's just going too far, because you're dogfighting anyway (so much for stealth!) and the missile hanging there messes up stealth anyway (maybe ever-so-slightly less, which means nothing where stealth is concerned).
@@amapolishplummer Could be. Those engines sure have taken a *long* time to develop. The Russians are honestly so good at rocket engines, too. I guess rocket science is sometimes easier than jet science.
@@rbrtck I reckom that's the last hurdle before both Russia and China start mass producing their stealth jets (Not in the thousands but I can see it like the Raptor maybe a hundred or two).
After they learn from their programs then I thnk we'll see them come up with a F35 rivalling actual mass production stealth fighters from both countries.
Well, aside canted vertical tails Boeing would have to smile to GE for composite baldes of first stage of engine compressor and RAM inside composite air inlets and at their edges. Also: F-15s conformal fuel tanks / weapons bays are not new concept - it was called FAST packs. In any case, F-15EX and F-35 make great combo. First is heavy hitter & missile truck, second is recon/SEAD. True hunter-killer combo. If I had to design an small airforce, I'd go for 40-60 F-15EX and 40 F-35 split between B&C variants (SVTOL and extended fuel capacity). Of course F-35 debacle and F-15 zombification could have been easily put to rest with continued production and development of F-22 but.... well.
The Air Force's decision making has been dubious on numerous occasions.
Cool video loved learning about our modern military history thanks. Inspires great ideas for fictional stories and film ideas.
The eagle is just beautiful. Perfect proportions at any angle
Seems like Silent Eagle would still be a good idea in today's fighting environments.
What difference a stealth F15 and a F22 will be then? Might as well make more F22
There are plenty of small countries that can benefit a great deal from this aircraft. Including a few friendlies. South America is a big market, Vietnam, and a couple of Arab countries.
@@huiyinghong3073 We can't make more F22s.
Yes, it’s the interceptor role that is missing today. F-35 doesn’t have enough range. Silent Eagle would be a great interceptor with frontal stealth.
Have you looked at the F 35s that are in service medal and have hard points and carry external weapons so much for stealth
So what? You act like it’ll be standard procedure to have them loaded to the gills all the time
With those divergent ruders high AOA is welcome. More clearance for catapulting during some amount of rolling - by the way, are all fighters stopping to roll when the handle is released/at catapulting?
You need to use this intro instrumental for all your videos! It fits the intro action shots soo good. And it kinda reminds me of some of the music from subnautica
I am a big fan of the F-15 Eagle. However, in my humble opinion, it is being expected to do too much in the face of the clearly changing world of stealth and advanced aircraft.
Perhaps it has been the intelligence related to the Raptor being sold to and/or stolen by China which forced the Gen 5 fighter into its early production retirement and brought about the constant and, at some point, vain upgrades to the extremely successful F-15 as a stop gap measure until a genuine and revolutionary 6th generational plus (or perhaps even a 7th generation) platform can be developed.
Sadly, a nation that is being crushed by a national debt, (which many economists believe to be closer to $45 TRILLION DOLLARS), cannot help but create tremendous obstacles for the same “American taxpayer gouging” techniques which have been implemented for decades by so many government contractors. Honest research and development are one thing while stealing is another. After all, let us never forget that we, the American taxpayers, are ultimately paying the lion’s share of the bills.
But it does seem that the approach for the development of American military aircraft is somewhat all over the ballpark. Hopefully, the NGAD will soon enter serial production and the security surrounding its technology will be clamped down tightly.
Again, the F-15 is a fantastic aircraft which has over delivered in so many ways. But age and technological advances ultimately catch up.
I think the F-15 has its place for the foseable future because stealth has many disadvantages and comprises. I don't believe stealth is going to be the Messiah of warfare, radar technology is catching up faster than stealth for obvious reasons. Stealth has had a huge advantage over much less developed nations for decades but now all the major powers have that tech and will be able to counter it in the near future. High resolution and narrow band radar are in the works and this is much cheaper than developing stealth aircraft. Stealth comprises too much mostly the cost with limit the size of a fleet they will be used for recon and point but the F-15 will be used as a weapons platform it can carry enormous payloads and has tremendous speed.
The F15 will be around for a while. F22 and F35 can go ahead and clear the sky but they have too little of a weapon load. So the F15s will be behind them to carry most of the weapons. It is also possible that an F35 in the front locates a target and the F15 behind shoots a missle at it without seeing it by itself. So the combination is actually much stronger than just stealth optimized planes.
The airforce has plenty of advanced fighters far and above the f22 and f35 they don't have many and it's far to expensive to build fleets of them. Some versions they have produced 5 or 6 aircraft and some of these have seen combat. Some of the systems in these aircraft were being tested for possible use in the future fleet 6th gen fighters. Worked for a defense contractor and talked with a pilot that flew one of these aircraft at Andrew's. He said the version he flew was the culmination of several 5+ gen fighters. He expected this aircraft to be shown relatively soon and that was in 2018. just thought I'd share
Amazing and informative. Nice job
F-15 continues to amaze me for the last ~40 years. Those were the golden times for this industry.
All it needs now is an obstacle free canopy and 360 thrust vectoring and all of a sudden, you'll have something really capable.
Awesome video! Thanks
“Anytime a mission called for less stealth and more hate” 🤣🤣🤣
I think it's amazing they added internal missile bays. But do the new internal volume & external proportions affect performance?
Pentagon: Mom, can we buy stealth fighters?
Mom: We have stealth at home
Stealth at home:
This seems like I'm watching a big giant infomercial for a fighter jet. Feel like I'm in the movie, Lord of War now. LOL
'... shot gun with a silencer' good analogy!
The F-15 and also the A-10 are old aircrafts but can be improved , so do it and keep them they are amazing aircraft
You should make videos for representing military systems & platforms from around the world. A series for ground platforms, one for air platforms & one for naval platforms
Great video, thanks!
F-15s are going to be in the sky’s for many more years. The “new” 15 is going to be even more incredible.
Great work!
The F-22 is the ultimate stealth F-15.