Are These the Best Aluminum Rims Ever? | H Plus Son Archetype Review
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- The H Plus Son Archetypes are perhaps the most popular aluminum rim on this planet. They're relatively lightweight, ride well, and look stunning. They are the standard aluminum rim, but are they the best?
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#fixedgear
I built up a 36H set to Dura Ace high flange NJS hubs. Pretty happy with them.
Not only are Velocity Rims made in the US, they are made in my hometown. I went there to talk to them about building a set of wheels and they were great to work with. Polished Purple looks pretty sweet IMHO.
Archetypes are great, but I prefer the HED Belgium plus myself... Same width as the H plus son hydra, tubeless compatible but you can get them with a machined braking surface.
I build lots of wheels as a small garage business. I like the TB14s better. The retro styling looks right on my lugged steel frame. TB14s ard eyeleted, stronger and will be easier to true miles down the road. They also offer 36 drillings for loaded touring. If you really want wheels that last, always use brass nipples! Brass doesn't gall like aluminum. Its not damaged by leaked Stan's sealant like alloy nipples. They don't add much weight. Most wheel builders will recommend the brass nipples simply because we like our customers stuff to last.
I dig my polished rims and Polished White ENO hubs. They look pretty sharp with black spokes. But function will always trump form. I've gotten used to the patina. My bikes are ridden primarily offroad and are always dirty anyways.
I built up one pair of Archetypes, they're not bad, they're round and hold full tension Theyre just overpriced for what you get. The supposed 'hard anno' grey, are not hard at all. They scratched up in the first couple rides on my geared 'cross bike. A big let down compared to old Mavic hard anno'd rims I've ridden hard for decades. The Archetypes are quite a bit uglier than my dirty polished rims! But I don't particularly care. I rarely really look at my bike while I'm riding it. Especially the rims where brakes rub. I'll build with Arcetypes for customers, but I won't recommend them.
My favorite rims these days are US made Velocity's and Hed Belgium's. Always great quality and well worth a few extra bucks.
I know this is a comment from a year ago but hopefully you are still active. Do you have any experience or opinion on the HPLUSSON The Hydra? I've been eyeing them since they are lightweight and my friends are saying good things about it.
I haven't built with those H+ rims yet. Just the two I mentioned. They look close to identical as the Archetypes which have held their tension and stayed true for me. Haven't wrecked one of those yet. Just don't buy 'hard anno' grey or black unless you don't run rim brakes or don't give a shit.
If given the choice, I go for a bit heavier rims, with eyelets and higher spoke counts preferable.
I ride a fixed 'cross bike off-road most often, meaning I beat my wheels to keep up momentum on rolling hills, corners and rough terrain.
I tour and bike pack regularly and often ride at night on trails with my derailleur bikes. Night riding in particular can be pretty hard on wheels. Nearly every month I do a dusk to dawn ride on or near the full moon. Long mixed road randos are my favorite sort of rides.
I use my wheels really hard in rocky terrain and rarely need to true them. I haven't broken a spoke in nearly 20 years. I've been wheelbuilding as a small business part in my garage and at a shop for about 30 years.
When I do break stuff, Usually I wreck rims by bottoming out the tires, flatting, and denting, cracking or tacoing rims. Fixed gear on the rockiest trails required some trials stunts. Underbiking is what I like doing the best simply because it keeps long rides interesting and keeps me from riding too damned fast down hills!....
I'm a new grandad!
@@rollinrat4850 Yo thank you so much for the response! I have personally wrecked my old rims because while in traffic, I got sandwiched and the bike shop I have went to may have my spoke tension then too tight.
@@4KRESOLUTI0N If your spokes were over tightened, the rims may have developed cracks around the spoke holes. This is another reason to use eyeletted rims, which reinforce, spread out the load, and tension up higher easier and allow tensioning better when they're old. The H+TB14 rims use eyelets. Ironically, my favorite brand right now is Velicity and I don't think they make an eyeletted rim. Haven't broken any of these yet either and I've been using them about 5 years now. My favorites are the Belicity Blunt SS, Quill and Dyads for heavier duty use. There are all 650/700/29" rims.
When you have yours rebuilt, if it's a fixed or SS wheel ALL the spokes should be tensioned to 110kgf without the tire installed. If it's a dished wheel then the NON drive side will be lower. The more gears you use, the more dish and less tension on non drive side. It makes the wheel weaker.
More spokes=more strength. That's a rule. Personally I never used less than 28 spokes, 32 is what I use most often. I use 36 holes for loaded touring and I've built 40-48 spoke wheels for tandems and extreme use wheels, heaviest loads and the most abusive use. I never personally use carbon rims because they're too expensive to replace. I don't think carbon is a great value at all and I could get them at cost.
A fixed gear wheel is the strongest design because there's no dish. I've never broken or damaged a fixed/SS wheel.
All the spokes should be well within 20% of same tension. Make sure the builder uses a tensionometer and make them show you. Otherwise find a better shop.
I charge $120+ labor per wheel. I show my customers the tension on each spoke and also show that the rim is less the .010" true both laterally and radially, using a precision dial indicator. I'm a retired machinist. I offer lifetime truing as long as the wheel lasts,
IF and only if I approve of the wheel's design. That doesn't include damage like spoke breakage or rim damage.
My customers rarely return wheels that need to be trued or fix broken spokes. Most of the wheels I build are for heavy duty touring, bike packing, mtb and gravel. I'll build ultra light race only wheels for skinny riders, but no one can expect them to last as long. They're compromised for weight. The wheels I like best for racing are all tubular rims. It's a stronger design that can be made thinner and lighter. I also dig pro quality tubulars, their ride qualities and flat resistance.
Wheel building is fun and a good skill to learn IF you got a fair amount of patience and you're relatively mechanically inclined. Wheel work is my favorite among all bicycle maintenance. It's hard on my aged hands though! I taught myself using Jobst Brandt's book, the Bicycle Wheel. Sheldonbrown.com also has an excellent tutorial. The key is to take your time and follow all the little detailed steps.
If you've got any specific questions, I'm glad to help.
@@rollinrat4850 thank you again! in my country, experienced wheel builders here are quite rare and most of the bike shops here only offer the bare minimum for wheel building. though if i do have the opportunity, i may purchase a tension meter so i can prolong my rim's life. i too use 32 holes the most since it allows me to be a bit more rowdy especially with the roads here in my country. i rarely see eyeletted rims here also but i might try and find some.
You should build a set of wheels using some Velocity Aileron rims. They're tubeless compatible and come in a non-polished silver finish.
When tracklocrossing took a few false turns and ended up on enduro trails a few times.
I run Archetypes on Mack low flange hubs with 20/28 spokes and they still run dead straight without adjusting them for thousands of km
Flip your bike upside down...grab a Lysol wipe...spin each wheel while holding the wipe gently on the rim surface...takes a few seconds, and they look like new...I have the silver Archetypes laced to silver Suntour Superbe Pro track Hubs using black DTSwiss db Comp spokes&nipples(24h radial, 28h 3cross)...they look amazing😍...I also have the all black Archetype/spoke/nipple laced to silver DTSwiss track Hubs (20h radial, 24h 2cross)...no issues with either set over the past few years that I've had them...I love both sets and would definitely highly recommend...
👍😎👍
A dremel with a buffer wheel and some jewelers polish would probably make some quick work of those rims. I've used "0000 Steel wool" to polish/clean pitted/stained/dirty chrome back to a mirror finish...might be worth a try as well. There's YT videos of people using the "0000 steel wool on chrome" , you have to see it to believe it.
I loved my velocity 23s they were fantastic on my kagero build, When I bought some 23s i had to wait for velocity to ship the raw unpolished rims from their mfg facility in florida to have them polished and sent to wheel builder. Process was over a month and a half
That’s kind of why I went with sun m13ii wheelset because they still are decently priced, I’ve had them for years with great experience and IM NOT RACING so it does not matter weight, aerodynamics, etc. plus the biggest factor is knowing how to true wheels yourself so if someone doesn’t or isn’t good/comfortable with doing that, yea I’ll steer them away from the sun wheels
I expected this video to be straightforward "buy the 'Archetypes!'"
You gave a practical review 🙏 thanks
I’m a fan of the A23 (biased as I know the guys and gals at Velocity) A23 is officially tubeless ready too. My own “tracklocross” bike has Ailerons with 38mm tires.
Lately Velocity is my favorite brand. I've built wheels as a garage business for over 30 years. Right now I'm using the Blunts, a Quill rim, Dyads for my heavier duty wheels and Major Tom's for tubulars. Among my collection are beater single speeds and a fixed gear 'cross, training and commuting rig. That's my favorite, most used bike. My 'Crossafix'. I get old steel lugged frames for very cheap, often even free. Very practical bikes (if they're geared right) for everyday rides, even in some mountains.
It's the RIDER, not the freakin bike!
U can scuff the silver Archetypes with a purple ScotchBrite pad to get a brushed finish...it works on all silver components...looks amazing!🤩
But then they'll corrode. They need anodising or clearcoat
@@janeblogs324 Please elaborate?🤔
I've been doing it for years with absolutely no issues...plus any future oxidation could easily be wiped off...😏
bro, props to the photo/thumbnail
There are 23ish mm rims wider, deeper, lighter, stronger and more aero, but as an all-round package they're hard to beat. If there was only one rim available, most people would be happy, EXCEPT ONE THING (which doesn't apply to brakeless riders)... Their biggest weakness is braking surface longevity; it is horrendous. They don't last well when ridden (and braked-on) long and hard in less-than-ideal conditions.
I have owned 7 or 8 of these on various wheels across road and fixed applications over the last decade, in north-western Europe, but now I tend to build them onto wheels that are a 'semi-bling' choice for fair-weather running, because the brake wear is that bad.
@Bebo I think it's the choice of Al alloy. Strong but brittle and poor resistance to abrasion.
I still love the rims for the way they ride and look.
DT's rr411 rim costs less, weighs less, costs less and is rated for 120kg. Problem with it is, as you say, braking flanges are thinner than on its even cheaper cousin r460 and also as on Archetype. Less of issue when used on FG as front brake is used only as emergency measure when all other measures won't work.
I run single speed on my archetypes. How long do the braking surfaces last (average)? When will I know to start checking them and what should I be looking for?
@@bobiebut6816 depends how long/far/hard you ride but keep an eye on the little wear marker holes in addition to how concave the braking surface becomes, and check your brake pads for small stones regularly.
Ordered a pair of Velocity Quill alongside the wabi thunder, can't wait ! Wider profile, wider tires, urban stonks
I would take the HED Belgium R (successor to the plus) over archetypes any day of the week.
the reason tubeless won’t work is not the wheels and probably not the tires. you just need to keep adding tape until the seal is ready right and the tires are super hard to get on. they will require a lot more tape since it’s not a tubeless ready rim.
For now Archetypes laced in sealed-bering Novatec hubs is about $230 shipped.
Nice review. Been coveting the Stiffi two spoke wheel’s lately.
I just got an H plus son archetype black rims!! and they are Great!
Props to attempting to repolish them
I built up a pair of archetypes for my road bike. I got the black ones and I think they look pretty slick. However, besides looks, I'm not sure they were the best choice. My rear rim has cracked (presumably because I over tensioned the drive side spokes) and I need to rebuild it sometime. The internal width is almost too wide to run the Tufo tubular clincher tires I prefer. And they aren't rated for tubeless (not going to risk it on 24mm tires, which is as wide as I can go). They're adequate for my needs, but they should really redesign them to be properly tubeless ready.
THE HYDRA...tubeless ready from H Plus Son😎
@@4specialist not rim brake compatible, unfortunately.
shouldt there have to be a small box that states that this video is a commercial?
I'll never stray from DT GR 531's, especially in 650b. They are bombproof, easy af tubeless setup and look mean with their pretty unique shape.
Disc only so not really comparable to Archetypes.
@@chazphot we are riding fixies?
Which is better rim the h plus son archetype or the h plus son the hydra?
Over priced here in the UK, it's an okay rim,but the best rims are the higher end DT, the cheaper DT swiss are not great
Can you do the h plus son the hydra review
The Hydra, no brake surface and lighter, 24h laced to Mack superlights? Any experience people? Look interesting. But being from GrandRapids MI with friends at Velocity, you can’t go wrong with A23s, had some tri wheels back in the day build on these. However, I’ve been a long time Magic OP (Kyrium, cosmos) user, old and new, at 430g the OPs are light, but getting my RH/Compass Jon Bon 35s, and definitely the RH 28s I nearly lost my mind-hi tensions!!! Learn about the tubeless middle channel earlier than I.
*Mavic
Thanks!
At my age, the limiting factor to my riding is becoming my knees, not my bike lol.
What did you guys use to remove the h plus son logo on black archetypes?
By buying DT Swiss R460 and removing stickers. Shape of x-sections is very similar.
Hey Guys. Are 32 spokes (rear) a must have for a singlespeed and for the archetypes? A shop suggested me 28 spokes for the rear. Any experiences?! I am round about 170 lbs (77kg) and want to build up a wheelset for a singlespeeder. Purpose: Fast riding in my city, sometimes a bag to carry some stuff and a frontrack. Looking forward to buy the archetypes in grey. Is 30mm tire the maximum?! Otherwise burping is possible?! Love from Germany!
Hallo! 28h rear should be fine for you. This rim is wide and stiff so when built properly I can't see why not. Maybe even 24h would be OK but 28h would be generally just a bombproof wheel you don't have to baby. Currently 8bar have 28h low flange (if that is you thing) hubset on sale but it's only black (but some people are OK with this). With 18-19mm internal width you can use tires like from 25c, normally 28c but if you want wide - even Conti GP Urban 35c is fine. Tschuess!
Thanks for answer. I choosed Mack Hubs from Poland, super light! And I choosed 28 spokes, I prefer the look of 28. I am riding the Conti Urban 35mm on my current commuter, too and I am super happy, but with wider rims (20mm). @@event4216
i just bought a pair of these Silver H+Sons... looks like I should've bought the black or gray finish.. :/
hey Zach, I run 45s on my archetypes :)))
Take Wallace off the wall and bring him back to life with these wheels. Ultimate parts bin bike.
Steel rim?
h plus sun the most popular, yes. the best are HED Belguim
True - It's a good rim.
Try Scotch bright pads they also make polishing clothes
The A23's are nice, but I did get them polished. But its not so bad since I typically clean them after every 2 rides at least.
Velocity rocks!
Silver rims were strong factor which made me purchasing my bike and only later I realized how much PITA they are. I'll either sell them or leave hanging to put back on bike if I decide to part with it. Even grey Archetypes would be more practical, if I don't go grey TB14 route.
running phil wood to hydra. no fucking complaints. 🤷🏽♂️
Scour pad those bad boys into a satin finish
Was looking to catch the h plus son hydras laced to suzue hubs on sale for the holidays but now I’m rethinking it with all these comments. I’m currently running velocity deep V’s laced to origin 8 hubs so I thought I would upgrade. I run brake less so the braking surfaces doesn’t really matter to me can anyone recommend a alternative wheelset? Looking to spend 500 max for the wheelset.
What do you expect from your new wheelset? Lighter, stronger, blinger, etc?
I like the Hydra rim quite a bit. It has always been an easy build and drama free. I found the Archetype unremarkable and I utterly detest the TB14. All of my TB14 rims have been swapped out to the far more durable and stable Sun Rhyno lite. Which is a fraction of the cost. Not light, but super stable.
@@whitneyb.8185 Is Hydra so different from Archetype? Ignoring fact it's 2mm wider it looks like disc version of Archetype. R460 disc version looks better value dollar per dollar.
TB14 as I see it, was never made as bombproof rim (even if it has been used in famous race over cobblestone, name escapes me), rather pseudo-retro box section rim and it does the job....
@@event4216 R460 has thinner coating that scratches and fades more easily. It’s less round out of the box and the aluminum is a bit softer, Hydra is a larger, stiffer rim with more material in the right places. It’s not substantially heavier than an Archetype because the brake track on the archetype adds a bit more weight. Hydra comes into round and balance nicer than the R460. I’d still pick a Velocity rim over an H plus son because the only part of the build that takes any time with Velocity is getting the flat spot out at the joint. Which is what makes Hed Belgiums so damn legendary, I regularly get Belgiums that just flat out DONT have flat spots. It’s too light a rim for my own uses, but it’s a damn treat building them for someone else.
@@whitneyb.8185 Right, but R460 also costs 2-3x times less than HPS rims. For someone who uses rim brakes a lot that could work out nicer and flanges are thicker. Aluminium these days is strong or stronger...if wheel has enough spokes and is tensioned properly, could aluminum recipe be weak point?
Rounder - yes, HPS rims are rounder out of box, but R460 isn't wheel builders nightmare and doesn't make him charge more to build wheel. R460 isn't sexy rim, of course.
Nice & Thanks :)
Nah. Even the Sun M13 IIs are pretty sweet for the money. There are better hoops than Archetypes out there for sure. They’re good looking though!
29iners
They are average, nothing special. Mostly a brand that made it with a nice logo. I think they are on par with something like Alexrims. You are better off buying an actual rim and not a logo, and then sending it to polish.
Both ridiculously expensive….x-keymet is much better
TUBELESS SUCK JUST SEALANT FILLED TUBES LESS MESS AND HASSLE !!
If it works for mtb it probably means it just works
First!!!
first