Why Big Bore Thumpers Are Better Than Midweight ADVs | T7 vs 701 & XR/DR650
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- After making the decision to move from adventure bikes, back to the much more simple and lighter big bore dual sports, I decided it was a good time to look back and see how my old Tenere feels in comparison. Ride along on the Tenere as we trace the same route I took the XR650L, DR650, and most recently the Husqvarna 701 Enduro. We'll talk paper specs and I'll share my thoughts on the less tangible aspects as well.
701 VS DR & XR Video: • The Big Bore Dual Spor...
XR650 vs DR650 Video: • XR650 vs DR650 In-dept...
Sources:
Tenere 700 Specs: yamahamotorsports.com/models/...
Tenere Dyno Data: www.dirtrider.com/story/dirt-...
701 Enduro Specs: www.husqvarna-motorcycles.com...
701 Enduro Dyno Specs: www.dirtrider.com/dirt-bikes/...
DR650 HP/Torque Specs: www.dirtrider.com/story/tests...
XR650 HP/Torque Specs: www.dirtrider.com/tests/honda...
Other Honda XR Specs & Info: powersports.honda.com/motorcy...
Other Suzuki DR650 Specs & Info: suzukicycles.com/dualsport/20...
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I ride a 2017 KTM 1090R for fast pavement and easy off-road rides, and a 2023 KTM 350 EXC-F for difficult and technical off-road rides. From 60+ years of riding motorcycles, I have found a minimum of two bikes is required to enjoy all types of terrain. Great video, thanks for sharing!
Agreed. @ 60, I've been on & off roading my 08 990 on big single track and tarmac since 08 and my 250 on little stuff since 09. No such thing as a true unicorn bike but having a couple options delivers you more adventures and better skills.
@@toddwmac any fuel injection issues on your 990? I would love to find a clean 990 Adventure.
Not a bit...knock on wood. I do have a throttle cam in there to help smooth things out. I did have a fuel filter clog a few years back and went ahead and swapped the pump while I was in there. Other than that, all other issues have been minor or "self-induced " ) She has been ridden pretty aggressively since day one and seems happiest when kicking and screaming up a rutted twin track or bouncing off the rev limiter. I'm not C. BIrtch, but I have learned to trust the bike and that momentum and a quick throttle hand goes a long way. That being said, she is an 08 and I'm pushing 60, so the days of being out in the middle of the desert or up in the mountains solo are limited. I do want to get a new "big" bike I can hit the trails on, there is just something special about putting big bikes in small places. :) However, getting off that LC8 after a day in the dirt, makes letting her go almost impossible.
I'll defiantly be sticking with my 2020 DR650. No fuel pumps, radiator's etc. Super easy to work on and long service intervals the motors not stressed cost a fraction of the price you aren't going to lose money on buying one like you are on new bikes.
The T7 piqued my interest when it was first introduced. I think it’s a pretty awesome machine whose limits I don’t have the skill to test. Ever since I learned of their existence I’ve been fascinated by the big bore thumpers. And they suit my age and abilities much better.
We just took the T7 and 701 up to Harrison Hills (while this was uploading actually) and it reaffirmed everything I said about the Tenere. It's an awesome, very powerful, & capable machine... and I'm glad I sold it! The big bore thumpers just fit my size and needs soooo much better.
How did you possibly learn about a T7 before big thumpers? 😂😂
@@IRLtrolls what a strange conclusion for you to draw.
Thank you for the back-to-back insights and comparisons. Very handy that you were able to get on that T7 again and compare it to what you've been enjoying.
I'm glad to hear you think so, thank you!!! It was a lot of fun!
Makes sense. I have ran the T7 and the KTM 790 on multiple BDR's (including all advanced sections), also double and some single track in southern oregon. I now have a 2023 690 enduro R. If you spend the weighted amount of time on trails with these bikes, then I feel the Single cylinders are just a better option. Ditto with Swanky.
Well said! Thanks for the data!
Absolutely perfect comparison video it really is very insightful. Keep up the great work brother 👊
Thanks man!
Great video on T7, own one too and agree that it is not made for single track-but would not trade it for anything, I do like the Drz 400
I owned a DRZ and now own a t7. I found that I really didn’t like the DRZ as it was a heavy dirtbike, so when I would go dirtbiking I would much rather just take my RM250 or WR450. The DRZ isn’t a very good road bike either, found it was screaming all the time on regular back roads. So the bike ended up being sold. Now the T7 is a much better road bike, but it’s too heavy for dirtbiking, so I continue to take my dirtbikes on those days. However…. If I could only have just one bike, it would probably be a DRZ400 or if I could just put a plate on my WR450.
Thank you! Yeah the T7 is definitely an awesome bike and can be ridden much farther off road than most of us should probably take it 🤣 still fun to try though and an amazing machine!
Hey Ben,
Just want to say thanks and give you a shout out. I love the fact that you give concise and unbiased reviews on these old school bikes like the XR, DR, DRZ, etc. I’m over the century mark in age and I really like these old school, simple motorcycles. Owning a 23 DR650 myself I truly enjoy watching your match ups because I only have a DR to base my opinions on. I really like both the Honda and Suzuki, but something about the Suzuki I just love. I don’t include the more modern KLR because I’m just not a fan. Now, if it was an 84-87 KLR600 I’d be all in. Anyway, thank you from this Buckeye/Hoosier/Okie. I always look forward to your content. Keep rocking it.
Sincerely,
An Okie fan. 😊
Hello!
I'm glad to hear you're enjoying these videos and that you're looking forward to the next one. That means a lot! The DR & XR just seem to have so much more soul than the newer bikes do. Even my gen2 KLR always seems more personable than the Tenere. Something to do with the harmonic frequency, maybe? I don't know, over my head ha ha. Take care and ride safe my friend!
Sincerely,
Ben
Seems to be the most honest comparison of all of the bikes so far compared to other u -Tube comparisons and their owners biases. After watching enough of these it all comes down to what you want and expect and expectations. I’ll keep my dinosaur Xr650L and buy a road bike for the road. Retro bikes are back n style anyway.
Thank you, I appreciate that! I get a bit of crap about it but I figure it's way more helpful to those actually looking to buy a bike. If someone already owns one, they don't need me to tell them if it's a good bike for them anyway! Haha.
You have covered the T7, KLR 650, Husky 701, XR650, DR650 leaving only the XT660 out but since it’s not currently available stateside no biggie. Really most all the bigger more common dual purpose bikes were interested in. I mean I suppose the 500s or say crf450 would also be cool. But Kudos on comparing what you have. I dig all the weight, WHP, power to weight, fuel capacity, etc stats. Perhaps a video listing with costs and showing tread pattern and dirt to street bias on tires would be great. Useful to know what’s out there that is available for the particular persons riding bias. Rubber quality noise life expectancy varies a lot. I did see your waypoint tire vid. Also I hope to see more deeper off road trails and riding adventures. Maybe some hill climbing stream crossing camping & single track stuff. At least I haven’t seen you do it yet. Mountains to beaches to villages with great views and videography would be great. Or Moab and canyons or Idaho Wyoming Colorado mountains. Oregon riding trails. So many of us have already seen the back roads of Iowa so to speak. No criticism just ideas. Keep up the good work and we’ll keep watching.
Thank you!!! I really appreciate the ideas and you've got lots of good ones here! I will most definitely be doing some bigger adventure rides around my neck of the woods this summer. Once they kids get a little bigger I may try to branch out and take a few trips further from home with my Dad! I would also really like to get on a CRF450 as well as a few others! Thanks!
Awesome comparison, spoken like a true dual sport guy. Life is better with one cylinder. 👍
100% agree!!!
the Madstad windscreen for the DR 650 is excellent and deserves consideration
Great video! At 5’9, I prefer single thumper. 🤙
They're much more friendly aren't they?!
I've got a '17 690 that's been adv'd. Yenkro rally fairing, safari tank, etc, etc. For me, living in Colorado, it's the best choice. My riding partner has a T7 and I am envious on a longer slab ride, but off road my bike is SO much better. Easier to handle, much, much easier to pick up.
I know that feeling! 🤣
I saw my first T700 at a dealership, this year. I was surprised at how large, and heavy it was.
They are absolutely massive the T7 . I was also surprised how big the KTM 390 adventure was considering its just a 390 single.
T7 is an adventure bike, should have tubeless tires, up and down quickshifter and cruise control, the others are dual sports and correctly so.
Agreed!
Perfectly articulated. ALL adv bikes should have tubeless and cruise control.
It just depends on if you think adventure bikes should also be enjoyable on the road, or you prefer more comfort off road. The middle weight segment will actually be more enjoyable for 90% of the riding you'll end up doing.
Yep, just depends on where you want the advantage!
Ben! Glad to see the T7 back for a bit. I didn't realize you used 2wheeldynoworks to flash that ECU. You like their work? I am considering having them do my VStrom DE flash after exhaust. Thanks, and kumquats!
Hey! Yeah, it was really good to get back on it! I honestly always liked the lowered setpoint for the radiator fan and the decreased engine breaking more than anything. The actual performance in increase wasn't hugely noticable, but if you want to do it right I think they certainly know what they're doing and we're great to work with!
@@SwankyCatProductions thx man! I am glad you mentioned those details. I am going to have to reach out to them to see what all they can customize on the VStrom's ECU. It would be really cool if it kept ABS setting on power cycle and other stuff.... hmm.
the timing with the cemetery was solid 😅
Haha I'm glad you caught that!!! 🤣
So many bikes....so little time.....decisions.....decisions....great as always...but...let the builds begin!
Haha very true! I just got some parts in I've been waiting on! Started working on the XR today!
You apparently do very little riding and testing of ADV/dual sport bikes loaded up for multi-day camping and riding trips.
It likely isn't about whether big bore dual sports are better than ADV bikes, or big bore thumpers are better than midweight ADVs.
It's when the majority of your riding is primarily day rides in designated off road areas, fireroading, etc and you ride home to a shower and bed at the end of the day, you're probably going to be happiest with big bore barely street legal enduros and dual sports that aren't intended to carry gear like an ADV bike is, but that do allow you strap minimal luggage on if you decide to do the occasional overnight camping trip.
DR650!
Definitely the best DO-ALL bike! Jerry still has mine, haha.
My goal is to pair my DR650 with the vstrom 1000/1050… but there are times where I consider consolidation down to just a T7.
Two bikes makes for extra work, but it's nice to have options. Especially when one's in need of repair and you're indeed of some seat time!
You say for a smaller guy like yourself, but honestly I'm a big guy (6'3" and 280) and the reason I sold my Buell Ulysses was that I stayed butt puckered every time I took it off road. My DR350 is so much more confidence inspiring, it's no contest. But damn that buell was good on the road.
Oh man, we took both bikes off-road on some crazy ATV trails yesterday. I couldn't believe how much more nervous I was on the Tenere. It sooo much nicer on the road as well, but boy as soon as you slow down all it wants to do is wrestle 🤣
Lighter and a bit lower bike will make wonders for mid range skill riders. I think Tenere is for advanced and tall riders.
1 Cilinder with less electronics will take you further in general. Unless your drive more road than off-road
Agreed!
Beta 390 rr now. Don t care about hard seat. Suspension travel and offroad performance make all the tarmac pain go away... Use to say I prefer a bike which shines and makes fun in the 10% impossible tracks than a bike good 90% of time and a pure nightmare when shit hits the fan. Just set up super light gears and here we go travel... Even a front sprocket for long fast liaisons is fast and easy to swap on the way. And no one forces me up take highway. Enough small backcountry roads to ride at 70 kmh and enjoy scenery too. At 67, I m not gonna finish riding on gold wing
Nice!!! Yeah I'd ride back roads at 55mph all day if it meant skipping a few hours on the freeway 🤣. That's where the good riding is anyway!
Does the new routing of the Camel exhaust cook/melt the tail bag? I'm scared to try on mine. 2:29
Nope. Neither my dad nor I have ever had any issues. The pipe is pretty well insulated so it never gets insanely hot.
You should try an xr600r, same as 650L but 30 kg lighter and light crankshaft, it's a bombshell, kickstarter tho
I've always wanted too! Sounds like they are pretty insane!
@@SwankyCatProductions you ride it for a couple years and then notice it can rev a bit higher... And higher....
Traded my KTM 890r for a 690r and it was the right move. The 890r is good enough off road to be able to ride into trouble:) The 100lbs lighter 690r hits the sweet spot for me.
I definitely get that!
I was initially interested in the T7, it's by far the best looking ADV and the most dirt oriented one ; but only when compared to other ADVs
I've come to realize I don't want to spend 90% of my time on the road, I wanna be on single tracks, so I've tried the 701, and the FE 501/450, and I might go for the FE
I've found a DR 650 for 1,2k near me so I might just buy that one and buy the FE later
The DR won't be the same monster as the 701, but for the price it's a fair compromise. There's some truth to the whole riding a slow bike fast thing too!
How are you mounting the GPS above the light plate? (701)
Action camera sticky mount and a few elbows. I'd recommend getting metal parts though. My plastic ones snapped on the last hard off road ride I did haha.
After 120 000 klms of adventure there is only one , 40k valve check 10k oil ADV life . Dr6 fitty for the big bush Kays would be kool , no tow rope required . Trailer and a 450 enduro weapon for the singles and the up to 4th gear rippers Ozstyle .
Nice!!!
Can only keep one 650. Would it be the Xr or Dr ?
I really like the XR at the moment, but I think with suspension mods and a 14 tooth the DR would be the best long term option.
With infinite money anything can be great lol...price point is a big factor especially nowadays
True
Any single cylinder seems feather light vs same capacity twin.
True.
What screen is on the 701?
Garmin Nuvi 40LM or 50LM. I buy them off eBay for $20 bucks used. I have one for every bike! Haha.
@SwankyCatProductions sorry I meant the smoked wind screen. Looks like a pre 2019 ktm 690 touring screen ?
Wow, I clocked my lightly modded KLR at 6.2 0-60 and I weigh 250lbs lol
No way?!?! That's impressive. I must be getting rusty.
Love my 690 Enduro…….
I honestly haven’t found a twin (besides the boxer) that was as smooth as my klr or my g650gs on the highway up to 75mph … 🤷♂️
Got my 2024 KLR a month ago and love it over every bike I have had and I have had everything from a R1 to a DRZ400
Dang it you guys are killing me, I had all but written off the KLR in favor of the DR650, but then I read comments like this. How much time do you spend off road?
@@joellikness2121 me personally, about 5-6000 miles per summer … in the last 5 years, I’ve only done pavement once across the us. Usually it’s Florida up to NC, on two lanes then TAT across to the west coast…
Done every BDR mapped and repeat my favorites at least yearly…
I don’t run interstates and my dmd2 is set to gravel first and it’s quite effective.
🙏🏻🙏🏻
@@timlubbers2884 definitely good to hear. Guess I need to put the Gen 3 KLR back on my list.
@@joellikness2121 the one thing to consider is picking up the bike, all current (up to 10 years back) are well capable of riding 95% of all roads/trails in this country. Top heavy bikes (not heavy overall) are hard to lift after a couple of hours of hard riding. My Africa twin was sold because of this. My R1200gs, my F800gs and the klr (all 400-500lbs) are heavy, but easy to pick up where the T7 is a bear. My klr with the big tank allows me to not need to carry extra fuel, just need to adapt in the beginning.
Knowing how to work smarter, not harder is the key! Watch a Joselyn Snow video sometime, she’s maybe 125 wet, maybe 5’2 if lucky and she roles a R1250gs like a 250!!
Last year I had the chance to abuse a borrowed XR650L that belongs to a friend - and he was perfectly fine with me riding it hard. Almost completely un-modified. In motion, it feels just like a dirt bike, albeit with more weight, and an engine where the 'normal' sound is sort of like a lawn mower. Just trying to get the right price out of him. It let me down by going only 104 miles (on the stock 2.8 gallon tank) before running out of gas. Probably needs $1000+ in base upgrades to get it to where it should be usable for adventure riding.
Right? Definitely makes me think big dirt bike too. I'll have to total everything up once mine's "done". I'll bet it'll be pretty close to that, but it'll be nice to skip the weight and cost of crash protection!
@@SwankyCatProductions The big tank. Proper bars and crash guards. Dave's mods to the stock carb. Lighter exhaust. Oil cooler. Lithium battery. Tune it to run a little lean once the oil cooler is working. Rear subframe reinforcement. The seat could use some help .. but repacking & covering it is not difficult. Maybe Arrow or Big Gun exhaust header. Stuff like that.
63.8hp at the wheel is good for the T7 the F800GS is 71hp and it starts with 85hp
Yeah? That is a drop!
@SwankyCatProductions tiger 800 is worse again starting with 94hp 75hp at the rear wheel. They never did feel as fast as I thought they should.
Love that you’re doing this. Small dual sports are too small and underpowered (KLX, CRF, WR) and advs are too big, but big dual sport thumpers hit the sweet and are probably the best fit for most people. It’s hilarious that after 30 years these bikes are still the best do it all bikes. Wish they had EFI though 😁
Exactly!!! I'll never understand why they're not as popular as the small bikes. Lighter is always better off road, but how can you beat I bike that'll do 70 mph comfortably on the freeway and then rip single track!?!? Pretty hard to beat!
@@SwankyCatProductions For real! If you want a big bike for road and a small bike for off road, great! But if you want 1 bike that can do it all, you don’t want it to be 250 lbs or 550 lbs, you want it somewhere around 350-375; long live the 650 thumpers!
@@2wheels.are.better.than4 I've been dual sport riding and camping on my WR250R since 2008 through the mountains and highways of NW Montana and Idaho and the SE portions of BC and SW Alberta. Many of the through rides in this area start on the highway and pop out a day and a couple of hundred miles later on another highway.
When my WR250R (and presumably all others) can carry me and all my gear in the Giant Loop behind me at 73 MPH for as long as I want to go when on the slab, I'm left puzzled by WR250R owners who claim their WR was too underpowered to do the same for them when they were also dual sport/ADV riding.
What did the dealership tell you when you brought yours back to the service department to say it didn't have enough power when you were on dual sport/ADV trips as it was designed and intended to do?
I'm not going to be silly and try to tell people the WR250R fits the dual sport/ADV needs of everybody. That would be just as silly as saying it is underpowered for that riding.
For those who aren't happy on multi-day rides unless their rear tire is throwing a roost of gravel or mud around every corner they take... yes, for those people this isn't the dual sport/ADV bike for them.
You DID own a WR250R and do dual sport trips on it, right?
T7 is a great bike but I'll stick with my slow ass klr lol.
Haha nothing wrong with that! It's a great ride!
@SwankyCatProductions I put the first 13,000 miles on it and plan on putting the last mile on it too, just did a short 400 mile adventure on it from montana into wyoming and back ...perfect bike for that kinda stuff
do more
At 2 mins you explain the single biggest factor to me = weight? And I have no doubt I'd drop this pigglet on some trail where
it'd be a challenge for me to raise her back up? I imagine her weight helps on the roadways but all I have is your videos to let
me know the difference......thanks man
I always made it a point to pick mine up on my own when I dropped it, just in case I ever dropped it without backup. It's definitely doable with my smaller build, but it's not easy even on flat ground. Depending on where or who you're riding with it might make sense, but the big bore thumpers are great options no matter what!
Yeah, you're younger & in a bit better health...... lol, I got some worn out parts so I project the worse case scenario
so I don't get caught in a bad spot. I even consider carrying strap hoists to pull ya from deep mud/water & those
same things can lift you up in a bind. I think about these type things. Thanks for the posts/videos peace
The T7 is a street touring bike with a bunch of ground clearance. It is not a bike for off road. Buy a bike for function instead of the street and for a trend. Buy a sub 360 pound bike with less than 50 HP and you will end up liking it far more that the big street bikes with ground clearance. You continue calling the thumpers, archaic bikes but yet they are better for real adventure riding.
It's a heavy bike for you... For me: 6ft9, 39" inseem, 250lbs, it's a Dinky Toy.
Haha yeah I suppose it feels about how my TW feels to me!
I got a F800GS 10 years ago. It wasn't that heavy to me really but decided to hit the gym hard. Was 34 back then now I'm 44. I decided the bike wasn't heavy I was just weak.
I'll stick with my klr650. I'm never in a hurry and not trying to impress anyone,
Nothing wrong with that!
Dude, if you don't start doing the bike build videos you are going to lose me.
Lol wtf? You said that like you're filing for divorce followed by heavy spousal support. 😂😅
I've been waiting on parts for both bikes so I can do everything in the right order. I also wanted to make sure I got enough testing in when the bikes were stock before doing mods. I just got some in and was working on the XR today actually.
You are welcome to buy your own bikes and make your own videos🤣
what a load of rubbish! Totally disagree with the title. Big bore thumpers, while good on technical single track (except the KLR, its blatantly mediocre everywhere) are nowhere near as good as adventure twins or triples on hard-packed dirt roads, paved roads or highways! They are noisier, slower, less fuel efficient, more vibration and less comfortable (by a long, long margin!)...if all you did as just single track and single track only, then maybe. But be honest, most of us ride the blacktop to get to the single track and big bore thumpers simply suck ass on the pavement!