I have the BMW R18B. I absolutely love the comfort and uniqueness of this bike. It has a lot of character and if kept under 80 it’s completely smooth. I rode for about 50 miles at 90 to 100 and although it vibrates it never hurt my hands or made me slow down. As a owner of numerous HD tourers, the BMW is a fresh breath of air, and you won’t see one on every corner.
Something else you won’t see on every street corner is a shop that will work on a BMW. I can’t speak for their bikes, but being in the automotive side they are needed… As much as I dislike Polaris thru experience with several of their products I would easily by an Indian over a BMW
@@LEEBEECEE Buy the tools and buy the cable to reset the light when you do your own services. Absolutely use the specified fluids for service. Fuchs Titan EG 4218 BMW M3 GL5 spec 70w-80 hypoid gear oil for final drive on the shaft and gearbox. learn to adjust the valves and do oil changes yourself. PIA to pull the right fake "valve cover" and have to use a tool from the tool box to undo access to the motor oil spout.
Brand loyalty can hold one back. I've owned 3 HD's and 2 Goldwing's but my BMW is a precision beast. The TFT takes some getting use to but other than that it a fantastical motorcycle. we can armchair quarter back about what's the best bike but until you actually been on the BMW and first hand witness the fit and finish, it's engine and ride. Did I mention I had 2 GW's and 3 HD's?
Venturing off into the unknown can also be bad. I have zero experience with their bikes but have some experience with their cars being in automotive. Finding a shop that will work on a BMW can be a nightmare depending on where you are and many areas will have to resort to trailering it to a shop. And on the automotive side they need repairs.. lol. That alone will keep me off a BMW seat.
@@lanejohnson7656The issues is the same in the UK but in reverse, finding a place to service a HD is almost impossible, BMW however offer very good service packages.
@@charleschenet2336 If I find their cars not so great I’m not going to spend my money on a motorcycle of theirs.. lol I like BMW car styling because they are wickedly cool looking cars, but you couldn’t give me one. I have a hard time believing their bikes are any better..
@@thesage1621 not true Harley guy. I have 50k miles on mine not a single problem except there was some sort of relief valve on the front of the right side case that would weep a drop or 2. It was hardly noticeable. I got it changed out
I have a Chieftain and agree on the stock seat, i didn't like it at all, so changed it to the stock Roadmaster seat and it's so much better. I find the foot position compared to the Harley is so much more comfortable. I find the Harley just sits too high and found I couldn't lean it as far as the Indian. I have stage 1 and 2 performance upgrades and the bike has great power, and very comfortable on long trips
Great reviews guys. Your conversations are perfect for these bikes. I am 6’3” and I have the BMW R18 TransCon and it’s a work of art. I feel like I have lots of leg room. And the 10 inch screen, stereo, acc, brakes, suspension and overall tech is light years ahead. After 20 years of sport touring and adventuring riding, it’s nice to slow down and lumber. The vibration disappears using roll mode and the character works.
Yeah right because you have hardly any miles on your bike. 50,000 miles on a 21 year old bike. Pathetic really. My bike looks good because l don't ride it. HAHAHA😂😂😂@@fmpabxx7834
@@fmpabxx7834 You need to back off man. He clearly states it was in his first year-that's not "taking care of" his bike, that's a clear poor build and warranty claim nightmare, which a couple of my friends have had with Harley as well. Maybe 2004 was a great build quality year, but the more recent years......I hear more hit and miss. 3 of the older guys I ride with tried the new Goldwing and they were all mad they hadn't dumped their Harleys years ago. And a Goldwing will easily double the total miles a Harley will while being way faster, smoother, and getting better mileage.
LMAO.... wait until you get the service bills on that. Price of parts is outrageous. You'll get final drive service bills for 500 ml $75 bottle of 70w-80 G3 hypoid oil every service. $1100 services every 12k miles. And a biggy at 24k miles for transmission fluid service too.
You are Right! If you are In the Market RIGHT NOW Is the Time to Pick Up an R18: Low Miles Pre-Owned there are some crazy low prices out there. I picked up the R18B From a Harley Dealer with 200 Miles for $10,499. STOLE IT!!!!!!!!!
You can afford it compared to a 40k Harley. Oh wait, now Harley is woke. Wait for it, the gay drive. You can get it in every color of the rainbow. Remember Cartman!
Just ordered a 2022 Indian Chieftain Dark Horse, it arrives in September. Though I'll miss riding for this summer, I'm still excited about the bike. It offers some much more standard opinions than any of the two bikes listed in the video.
My 2014 Indian Chieftain has been an amazing bike. I've never had a better bike, and I've owned them all. I am seriously considering the Indian Challenger, though.
I feel you didn't mention the Indian comes with power locking saddlebags, Power adjusting windscreen, tire pressure monitoring, and LED lights all the way around. You can't get that on a Harley unless you get a CVO, but you still don't have a power windscreen. I had a 2018 street guide special, and I felt cramped on that bike, And after about 20,000 miles I kept smelling oil when I got through riding it, I have no idea why. So I traded it in on a 2020 Indian chieftain elite, and I don't regret it at all.
Probably because not everyone cares for those 3 features. To me personally a power windshield is a gimmicky feature that’s it not a matter of if but when it will fail. My Klockwerks is not only install and forget with zero worry of mechanical failure but also adds to the looks of the bike.. Whenever I’m getting off the bike I am opening at least one bag to throw gloves in and grab a hat. I’m literally standing right next to the bag so locking it (if I want to) isn’t an issue. I also don’t have to have my fob if I want to get in it or someone else I know is getting into it if it’s unlocked. Which happens a lot in my experience. I’m not a fan of tire pressure monitors because for 1 tires balance better internally, I often order tires and install them myself, I don’t like ugly weights on the outside of the wheel and most importantly I like to inspect my tires frequently and I trust a gauge more. With tire monitors people to tend to get lazy and just look at the screen to see pressure and not inspect their tires.
@Lane Johnson And that's okay, but a lot of us do care about those features. You do you, that's okay, those of us that like those features, will enjoy them. I have two Harleys, and I have two Indians, so I'm not a Harley hater, I love my Harleys, but I love my Indians too. Harley fan boys are just haters, they hate anything not Harley. I like all motorcycles, I don't care about the name on the gas tank, if I like it, I like it.
@@hdmoto3875 I’m far from Harley or die. Yamaha made some of the most sexy and reliable bikes on the planet. It’s sad they got out of the game. Something to ponder on. When you demand manufacturers to add features that will end result make their products disposable and throw away with systems to fail with time, you will get a throw away bike that drops in value dramatically.. Not a big concern if constantly chasing the latest and greatest and can afford the loss.
I always owned HD Touring bikes and my last one is a CVO Road Glide. Last week end I bought a BMW Transcontinental and the handling of this bike in tight curves and hairpin bends is amazing and much better than the various HD Touring bikes I had. Suspensions too are way better than the Street Glide or Road Glide or Limited I had all with Ohlins shocks. The level of details and perceived quality is just amazing with the BMW R18 B or Transcontinental. The Torque that these bikes give in REAL life (not with numbers only...) is exactly the same of a 114 ci HD V-Twin. Vibrations? Use the mapping modes and learn how to manage RPMs with this huge Boxer 1800 cc engine and everything will be under control. The 10.5 inches TFT of the R18 B or Transcontinental is from another league. The Marshall stage 2 of my Transcontinental is way better than the Boom Audio 2 system of my CVOs (Street Glide, Road Glide). These bikes are way better than what I see in many USA videos where reviewers or wannabe ones tend to always stay with American bikes.
If you're touring on these motorcycles, Harley dealerships are everywhere, while BMW dealerships are scarce. A breakdown on a BMW motorcycle could literally result in a tow of hundreds of miles to the nearest dealership.
Excellent video, guys. Working for such a corporate stalwart, I give you mad respect for your consistent objectivity. I own a '21 Street Bob and plan to add a '22 RKS to the stable this year, and found your analysis useful. I'm just too much of a purist to add infotainment. Thanks for making such great content.
@@mojomanmurph1925 So you're saying you've got a SGS and prefer it over the RKS? I ask because, ironically I just sat on a SGS at the dealership last week and loved the ergonomics. For me, it was WAY more well-suited than the RGS. Granted, I'm 5'9" and the RGS cockpit seemed "too far," but the SGS seemed like Goldilocks. I'm looking to buy by summer, so I'll give it a serious look. Thank you.
@@Peter-mcmcmc I have a 2020 sgs with ALOT of aftermarket and S.E parts and I love everything about it. I’m 6ft and with the mustang seat, ext rear brake lever, floorboards and 12” bars, it’s great for my height. Legs aren’t pressed to the tank, pulled back controls, and the seat with the lever gave me like 2” leg extension. I changed the F&R suspension because I’m heavier and carry gear. All things being equal the SGS and RKS are the same minus the fairing and what comes with it. I couldn’t imagine not having a full fairing after having one, like with my pickup truck, given that I’m likely to say “let’s go” and haul out for 2-3 days. The RGS to my understanding is diff in that you’re less leaned back than with the SGS but idk as I’ve never been on one. My gf was thinking RKS but then the heritage caught her eye and she fell in love.
@@ICEMANINVADER Thanks for your insights and sorry for my delayed response. Ironically, I was at the dealership last week and a 2020 SGS with 12" bars caught my eye. AS SOON AS I SAT ON IT, I knew it was a serious contender for my dollars, alongside a RKS. I'm nowhere near your height (5'9"), but, like you, the seating position and general ergonomics felt "Goldilocks." No doubt those 12" bars made the difference compared to when I sat on the RKS.
My 2019 FLHTK is extremely comfortable, looks amazing( Granted I did chrome all around and changed every light to LED). Threw on a full Cobra exhaust(deleted the cat) and a Woods 22xe cam and an arleness heavy breather and now runs like a rocket. Couldn't be happier!
I notice that folks rarely mention the BMW's adaptive cruise control and the reverse gear? Why is that? I found the ACC to be a game changer for touring, and the reverse gears make it a breeze to move the bike around.
So to recap- INDIAN - better motor, better Brakes, better suspension, better infotainment and GPS system, better stereo, adjustable windscreen, TPS. HARLEY- "refinement & feel" Aka- biggest advertiser dollars. You guys expect people to take you seriously? What a joke.
You guy’s did a great comparison test, thank you. You both just nailed it. The touring/cruiser segment is a totally different animal than race/sport bike categories.
LOL! Another biased shootout! In all of Cycle World reviews they always pick a Harley as the winner. Guess you love HD's dollars more then actually doing an unbiased review. I haven't ridden the BMW so I can't comment but, the SGS is not as good as you make out it to be. The Indian is the better all round package over the SGS especially, in the handling and performance side of things.
I owned a Harley for 18 years and rented numerous BMW’s. I currently have an Indian dark horse chieftain. I love Harleys, but Indian is a better motorcycle all around. Unless you want all the merchandise and the belonging that Harley brings, I don’t see why you would buy one over an Indian. The best motorcycle I’ve ever ridden is a BMW 1250 GS adventure. The power, the speed, and the balance and the agility are amazing and the tech on it is incredible.
Nice review guys, I own a RGS and a Chieftain and agree with your opinion on fit and finish. Where I would disagree is in the handling aspect, Harley stock suspensions have always been hot garbage, the main reason so many guys turn to fox, ohlins ect as the first mod done to the bike. The mono shock is a far superior design and the Indians now come with fox installed. You left out one major category and that’s reliability.I can’t speak to BMW as I have never owned one but the Indian is as close to bullet proof as you can get, just like it’s cousin the Victory bikes were. The Harleys seem to always have issues with every bike they put out, us Harley owners just come to expect it as part of owning a Harley. My father used to tell me when I was young don’t buy a Harley unless your willing to work on it, and unless you have the money to pay a dealer that advice still rings true today. That being said I will always own a Harley even tho they are far from the best bike available they are however the most loved bike available by most Americans.
This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for the input. I have a Vic Cross Country that really didn’t give me many problems. I was pissed when they shut down Vic, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before I buy a Harley given their reliability, and that BMW looks like it’s got a face only a mother could love. Thanks again man!
I owned a 2014 Street Glide Special with the 103 and regret selling it. I really loved it and enjoyed riding it like I stole it 😎. I now own a 2004 Road King with the 88 engine and numbered 15/100. I really love the way it rides better than the Street Glide I owned previously. I’m thinking of getting the R18B. I want something different and nostalgic.
Watched the video. Thks for the review. Been riding forever, owned many diff bikes. My 2021 R18C is fantastic! It's very smooth! I had it Brentuned, DNA Stage 2 air cleaner, makes GREAT power...excellent gearing...handles great...set the cruise at 105mph...freakin' SOLID...blows away many things....most importantly it is UNIQUE...reminds me of a FW-190... The most unique character of the 3. Btw...parking lot speeds are a breaze! It's all in the clutch! Plus, you FORGOT to mention it has reverse! Best bike of the 3 imo...HD ...yawn...as common as the flu in January.
I have not watched the whole video but i suspect when someone says fair and honest review it usually means they think the Harley was the best lol. Sorry Indian for the win and its not even close.
I bought my HD SG Special in Snake Venom blacked out 114 last August. It only has just over two inches of travel and you feel it. Rides and corners perfectly, slow handling is exceptional. I like the stock seat for now. Picked up a new 2021 Indian Challenger for the wife for Christmas, this is a beast! Outperforms HD in every way except fit and finish and for me style, which is subjective.
Great comparison but one important point was missed and that's the reliability and maintenance cost of these three bikes. In which order you would classify these bikes?
Hi, i am writimg to you from Germany near Munic. I drive only BMW cars, but never a BMW Bike. I own 2 Harley Davidsons, a Ultra Limited and an new Fat Boy. The BMW and the Indian are also very nice Bikes, but it never feels like a Harley. For me it exists only one Bike...Harley Davidson 4ever!!!! Good job!!!!!
Leaving out the gold wing was a mistake. I know you can't have them all though but the Gold Wing has earned it's place. I'm not biased. I ride a Street Glide daily ;). Great video either way.
I rode my Victory Vision from San Diego to Sturgis to SLC and then home to Massachusetts…when I rode around Sturgis guess what make of motorcycle I ALWAYS saw on the the side of the road broken down? Right the Harley Davidson…
I have been looking at buying a bagger and Harley so far come in 2 nd because I have to buy the bike and immediately change the seat and upgrade the suspension. Bmw is not on my list. Indian Challenger so far is no.1. great suspension and seat. Engine is great. Waiting to see if Yamaha is bringing their bagger back.
Have to agree. I am now on my second Indian and won’t go back. I don’t agree with these two on their fit and finish opinion, but that’s ok. I do not like that 107/114 at all. I’ve had two HD and two Indians. I agree with you on the fact that HD will sell you an expensive bike with a ton of flaws that YOU can pay to fix and “make it your own”. No thanks, I don’t agree with their opinion on HD fit and finish. But! It is your money, get what YOU want. I don’t judge the Harley guys because that’s what they like. I laugh whenever they go for the Polaris line. OK…
Too bad for you. Harleys and Indians are nice but limiting. It’s like touring in a truck. It’ll get you there but limits your Performence. Ride the BMW and you’ll never look back.
there were five BMW shops within 12:40 hour of my house here in western Pennsylvania. Now there are zero BMW shops. That didn’t matter much with the old air cold twins that gave BMW they’re excellent reputation for reliability and ease of maintenance. but starting with the K bikes in the early 80s, the BMWs were not so simple or serviceable by the owner anymore. BMW is the only manufacturer of cars and motorcycles I can think of that creates special fasteners that you need special tools to remove and install many things.. I had to buy a special tool just to bleed my clutch fluid on my K 1200 LT. I was advised by BMW owners on blogs to not even attempt to change the brake fluid on my K 1200 LT because if I got air in the system, the complete braking system was shut down completely at the computer, and it would have to be trailered to the dealer to have him plug it in to do a reset. And, although I did the job myself after buying a special adapter to increase the volume of the master cylinders because of those electric/hydraulic brakes., That would have quickly sucked the brake fluid out of those small master cylinders, shutting down the system, which is what happened to EWAN McGregor, and his friend Charlie Boorman when they went around the world on BMWs back in the 2000s. They had a brake Failure on one of their GS machines, and even though they were on the phone to the factory engineers, they could not jury rig something to get the brakes to work at all. A little inconvenient because this happened in the middle of nowhere in Mongolia were the closest people rode yaks. Somehow they were able to find someone with a vehicle to transport them to the train station where they sent it back to England with no brakes.. my point is, with bMWs, you have to marry the dealer even if you are a do it yourself mechanic like I am. I was a mechanic at four different dealerships when I was in my 20s. I do all my own work I always have, even warranty work, I had a 750 Honda that had defective valve guides from the factory. there was a recall. I pulled my own engine and pulled ahead and gave the dealership which I actually used to work at one time to them to change the valve guides because I didn’t have the tools for that. Then I buttoned it back up and plugged the motor in.. but with today’s motorcycles, especially BMWs, you have to marry the dealer, and around here in western Pennsylvania, all five dealerships are gone.. my experience with my very first BMW K 1200 LT, with many issues, convinced me, I will never buy another BMW. I’ve had three ventures, AGL 1800 Gold 1, four moto guzzis, many dozens of Japanese bikes, Kawasaki triple two strokes, Yamaha RDs and TZ‘s, RZ, Suzukis two and four wheel, Hondas, CB 400 F, CB 750 F, CR 125, even a Bridgestone 350 GTR, beta, gas gas, and fantic trials bikes, I currently have a Kawasaki Z 400 , and I went backwards and years to get away from ABS brakes and bought a Yamaha royal star venture, they can be serviced practically with the tool kit on the side of the road if the clutch, slave cylinder, STATOR, or water pump were to give me trouble on a trip. try that on a GL 1800 or a BMW K 1200 LT.. I do my homework, but if you don’t, labor rates in dealerships now are $125 an hour.. I had a mechanic that was a BMW motorcycle mechanic in one of the local shops in 2010. He was working on a K 1200 LT when I stopped in for an air filter. He called me back to his work area and showed me that he had to remove the trunk, the bags, the fender, the rear frame section, the swingarm, the wheel, the transmission to get out the clutch, because the clutch was ruined when the slave cylinder leaked on it. He said, this is a $4500 job, and that was in 2010 prices.. That’s something to think about before you go out on that BMW limb
Sorry about your experience Jody. I don't know what 12:40 means but there seems to be about the same number of BMW shops here in western PA as there were when I brought my first R75 back from Germany in '75. Not that it really mattered much. I'm on my 5th BMW since then with over 175,000 miles on them and have never had to take any of them to a shop. The most was a 99 K1200 LT with about 75,000 miles in 15 years without a problem or maintenance that couldn't be done at home. I realize the computers of newer bikes will probably require special tools should the need arise. Also, as a disclaimer, I never used the stereo on the LT and will probably never use a NAV system on a bike. I concur with some of the criticisms of the R18 they pointed out. As I currently tour on an RT, none of those apply. I think most of us would enjoy riding whatever we have and there's a lot of nice looking bikes out there.
@@conecomp8835 I didn’t want to complain and badmouth my only BMW I ever had. I know a lot of BMW riders. But they mostly rode the old air cooled twins.. A buddy of my name Wayne Kelly had a BMW specialist shop.. One of the things he specialized in was dual plugging the heads.. here are some of the issues I had with my K 1200 LT if I use the side stand. On the restart it would pour white smoke out the exhaust. My dealer in Wexford PA said that’s normal The rear brakes made a horrible grinding sound. The dealer said he could fix that for $750. New rotor and pads from the aftermarket Final drives we’re failing across the country. Two guys that actually rode together and won the iron butt on bmw’s They carried a complete spare final drive. that had to weigh 40 or 50 pounds… The windshield was optically distorted. For a motorcycle costing that much that’s not acceptable. It had hydraulic/electric brakes. They had no feel. They were grabby at below 5 mile an hour speeds. The weird front end did not absorb braking energy. When you hit the front brakes, that energy from the motion and decelerating would go into your front fork springs on a conventional front end..But only on that BMW front end that nobody else in the industry has even attempted to copy, when you hit the brakes, that energy does not go into the front fork springs. That makes the bike a handful to control. The thing weighed 900 pounds.That is the only motorcycle I have dropped in the past 40 years. talking to other BMW K 1200 LT owners about me dropping my machine. They laughed and said, get used to it, everybody drops them and they were not kidding.. I dropped it 2 times in parking lots with the front wheel slightly turned when I would hit the grabby no feel electric brakes. The machine had a security system that if I stopped for just enough time to fill the gas tank, I would have to get out that key fob and press the button to deactivate the security system every time. you must bleed the brakes at least every 2 yrs on those machines because they use electric pumps in the ABS braking system to feed the hydraulic pressure to the calipers. every site I found on the Internet said- dont even attempt to do this yourself. If you get air in the system, the bike will have to be trailered to the dealer because it shuts down The complete brake system on the machine you won’t have any brakes front or rear so it goes to the dealer and gets plugged in.. this happened to actor EWAN McGregor and his friend Charlie Boorman as they were circling the globe on BMW GS machines with ABS.They made a television series that was on television called long way around about that trip. And in the television series it showed them having problems with the brakes that could not be fixed. They had been trained on how to work on the machine before they left on that trip by the factory technicians. They had satellite phones with them in Mongolia when they had a brake problem. No matter what they tried with the assistance of engineers on the phone, they could not get the brakes to work even a little bit. They ended up transporting that bike to a train station somewhere in Mongolia with the help of the locals, and they had to ship it back to England. They ended up buying a Jawa motorcycle for the cameraman, and took his BMW to finish the trip. That’s how complex that computer controlled ABS brake system is.. so that had me very concerned about attempting to change the brake fluid myself. I called the dealer in Wexford and asked when can I get an appointment and how much is it just to change the brake fluid.. they could squeeze me in in three months, and I believe it was $750 just to change the brake fluid plus parts plus shop materals plus disposal fee plus tax. I ended up buying a video showing me how to do it which was very simple actually. The danger was the master cylinder was too small and because it had electric pumps that sucked the brake fluid out it could empty that Reservoir in a couple seconds as soon as you turn the key on. So you just add a little container that made the master cylinder reservoir able to hold about a quart of brake fluid it seems. That was the answer. It was simple after that, but $750??? Parts were expensive too. I think I paid $30 for a bmw oil filter. I think the air filter cartridge was $85.. that was 2010 prices.. an acquaintance was a mechanic at that BMW shop in Wexford. He had a BMW K 1200 LT on the lift with the whole back end of the machine off. All the luggage trunk wheel transmission all off and the flywheel was exposed. I asked him what was up with that machine when I stopped in to see him one day. He said the slave cylinder leaked on the clutch ruining the clutch. I asked him how much is this gonna cost the owner. He said about $4500. That was in 2010.. probably $6000 today.. I struck a deer at 70 miles an hour on that BMW. I didn’t go down. $5500 damage. nothing unusual there.. but both of those mirrors went straight to China when I hit that deer. In 2010, those mirrors were $492 each, plus tax. I thousand dollars for two mirrors? They weren’t even power mirrors, or heated mirrors.. it was one shock after another owning my first BMW. And that’s my last. They sure ain’t what they used to be. I never experienced costs, or symptoms, or imperfections, or flaws like that on any of my Japanese motorcycles or on my 4 moto guzzi’s or my fantic, beta, or gasgas non japanese machines…especially not combined all problems in one bike, that happened to be the most expensive motorcycle I ever owned.. please don’t take this personally, but I don’t think that the BMW I owned was even as well-made or as reliable as a 1969 Honda CB 750.. it was the most flawed most expensive motorcycle I ever owned. I will never buy another BMW. When I speak to other BMW owners that are honest. They don’t defend their machines. they reluctantly agree with me.. part of the enjoyment I get out of owning motorcycles and I’ve owned many dozens of motorcycles. I won’t even tell you because you won’t believe me. But I enjoy working on them. But with a BMW, you have to marry the dealer unless you have all the “ special tools” they sometimes require.. I had to buy a special wrench just to change the brake fluid. And that special adapter to increase the volume of my master cylinder to change the brake fluids.. my BMW K 1200 had A great seat. My wife loved the passenger seat, and both seats were heated. That was wonderful. The grips were heated. It had an electric up down windshield. reverse,That was nice. It had a center stand and a little handle for lifting the bike on to the center stand. That was a nice touch. I thought the bike was beautiful. Mine was black.. it was very smooth on the highway, and it rotated left to right very sharply. The brakes were extremely powerful. The rear wheel was very easy to remove with that single-sided swingarm.. I thought the bags were a little small. I liked the big gas tank. The speedometer/odometer was off by about 10%. Which made it appear to get better gas mileage than it was actually getting. It would say I went 100 miles, when I only went about 90 miles and it had the correct size tires front and rear. There was not much of a selection available for it in the tire department.. It had many great qualities, but it had many flaws and that’s why I got rid of it. The worst flaw was how unstable it felt with those grabby no feel electric brakes.. every time I had to pull up to a stop sign, I was nervous, because I thought I was gonna drop it again if those brakes started to grab unexpectedly again if I had to turn the handlebars doing a parking lot maneuver.. I had a good friend of mine that owns a collision repair shop do the repairs after the deer impact. He did excellent excellent work. Not even a single Phillips screw head had the paint flaked off of it. It looked as good as new. it had all new plastic, new headlight, new windshield, new front fender, new fairing stay, new mirrors. Everything looked new, I sold it and bought my 4th moto guzzi.. a norge which i rode for 12 years.. it had abs, Single sided swingarm, excellent suspension with much adjustability that the Italian machines are famous for, a great seat, heated grips, electric windshield, projector beam headlights, four of them, and I could adjust the valves on that in 45 minutes without even removing the gas tank.. I only saw that because I want a more upright position for a long distance, that’s why I bought the Venture
@@Jodyrides Well, I bought a R1200R in 2012 and up til today, after almost 100,000km. I can say, that I never had any issue with the bike so far. Just normal service and replacing the usual wear parts. Did a handful of tours across Europe with it.... the only thing I had to do was filling gas into the tank. Also all other BMW owners I know had hardly any issues with their bikes over the years. You might have had a lemon. Happens once in a while. But I doubt that you spoke to that many other BMW owners. Especially to ones with boxers.
Great review. Having been a Harley rider all my life (still own 2. 01 fatboy and 74 shovel) went to an Indian Springfield in 16. It was different at first, but the "connection" you guys mentioned, came around.
My 16 chieftan is tight smooth ride and the price comparison you guys didn't mention you get more for your money speaking with the indian where as Harley always wants extra for windshield that doesn't move floor boards on a indian are gigantic
@@stephentest9117 Indian gives you more for your money alright.. Very limited paint options, terrible colors of what options you do have, what paint you get wasn’t well done, inferrer chrome, a gimmicky windshield and a guarantee that it will not hold its value in comparison.. What a deal..
@@lanejohnson7656it won't hold value because harley artificially inflates their prices, they purposely don't sell good deals and they want you to trade in old bikes so they can get you into another overpriced bike but then they can sell used Harleys at a higher price to appear "value retained"
This is pretty interesting since I have owned 4 harleys, so if I compare the bmw r18b which I own now to my 2021 roadglide with a 128 in it, it rides so much beter even I had all my suspension upgraded on my harley. Bottom end torque is way more then a stage 2 114 harley. It has as much torque as my 128 had. Not top end power ofcourse but bottom end definitely. Overall way better bike then a harley.
NO doubt at all My favorite Motorcycle of these there Amazing Bikes it's The Absolutely Stunning, Superb, Spectacular and Unique BMW R18 Bagger ❤👊✌️👍😊!!!
Funny, I own 2 sport tourings and 1 each sport and ADV bikes, and at my local dealership this summer BMW was offering extended test rides of the R18. I expected to hate it, but I nearly bought it on the spot I liked it so much. I’d never buy a Harley, simply because when riding with my buddies (6 different brands, probably 200 days of touring), the only failures that we’ve ever had were the HDs, and it happened twice. No thanks.
Wise man people today are very easily controled to buy certian products based on marketing alone and tend to want to fall in line like sheep. That is why you see so many Harleys on the road or side of the road lol. I see this slowly changing and see many more Indians good for Indian but i liked it better when my roadmastrer was a minority.
Love to have a Harley but there is still to many issues with the engine. Not interested in having the bike at the dealership for stator, twisted crank, or crank runout, or cam bearings or chains in the engine in the primary or on the cam issues. And 2” of rear suspension is something that should have been addressed years ago.
@@k9m42 The R 18 B is considerably better in the rear suspension. Even better than my Sport Glide with Legend front and rear suspension and Saddlemen Explorer aftermarket back seat. There's plenty of poorly maintained 2 lane canyon and mountain roads here in Southern CA, and the R 18 Bagger suspension with the tall seat option is the best, most progressive and plushest of the bunch. I know, I'm 65, 6' 5" and 275# and my lower back tells me it is so.
This was one of the most balanced and objective reviews of three baggers that i have seen. Well done guys. While it was balanced, I did scream at the video a few times….especially when it came to the comment that Indian wasn’t that comfortable / lacked room-e-ness on the floordboards and seat. I realize this is subjective - but - by all accounts many riders argue how UNcomfortable the Harley stock seat is. HD floorboards…seem fine and no issues from my perspective. I was surprised that you didn’t mention the throttle lag on the Indian which is a real disappointment but you learn to manage it. Again, this was a well done review of the three !!!
I have a Chieftain that had that throttle lag, the dealership reprogrammed it and it worked much better. I also find when in sport mode it completely eliminates any lag at all, it's much more responsive
@@c5vette739 I had a SG and on a 400 mile ride, I was in pain. For me, short distances the stock HD SG seat was fine….but forget about it on long hauls. Thanks for the comment!!
@@jamesrichardson2893 Ok, I have now have a Challenger, stage 1…and might need to get it re-tuned…as I still have some throttle lag but have gotten used to it. Good idea, thanks for the comment.
@@jamesrichardson2893 lol I may need to complain to the dealer then, see if they'll retune my Challenger for free. I totally get why people dislike the low end throttle input. On the rm I had, it was smooth.
Victory made Harley work hard to keep up. Had a 2011 Cross Country and it could carve mountain roads and walk away from the Harleys.We Victory owners were thrown under the bus when they sold out to Indian and made our bikes worthless overnight. Victory was one of the best bikes I ever owned.
I completely agree. I would actually say, "Victory made Harley work hard to CATCH up." That Freedom 106 engine was way ahead of Harley for years. In fact, I'd put my 106 up against any stock HD 107....that had several problems when it came out. By the way, I'm not a HD hater. I have one, but I have to be honest.
What Polaris did to Victory owners is a big reason why I will likely never buy an Indian. They dropped Victory, screwing their customers to try to play off a names heritage that was dead for at least a half century. I’m not a fan of Polaris due to terrible experiences with their jet skis and 4 wheelers so I I’ve never been excited to drop $30+k to see if their bikes are any better. I damn sure won’t drop $30+k to be tomorrows Victory owner.. They would have earned more respect from me by building up the Victory and building their own legacy and heritage instead of dropping it for a dead name and try to play it off as it never died. And the victory bikes except that funky looking touring bike had a better style to begin with.. Can’t remember what model of Victory caught my eye. I was all in on it until I seen the Polaris casting on the engine (I wasn’t aware Polaris owned them at the time). Instant flashbacks of my sisters jet ski she purchased 1 year before Polaris quit making them. It was a pile of crap day 1 and lived in a shop. Brother in law tried to trade it and the dealerships flat out told him they didn’t want it. He finally hauled it to the dump where it belonged before even being unboxed. I’ve been around FAR more junk Polaris 4 wheelers than decent ones.
I have an r18c, and when I watched this video a few months ago, I sympathized with the vibration issue. However, I have driven 15000km now, but I can confirm that the large vibration has been greatly reduced. That's a fact that surprises even me
I own the 2022 FLHXSE in Steel Blue. The backlit controls and heated grips are awesome. Few people review this. When you ride at night and you probably will at some time.. this is as good as it gets. No guessing where the brites and horn are :) The GPS is easy to see in the sun and the sterio is amazing. Harley paint options(even the paint on the rims) are great. i dont see anyone close on these options yet. great channel, new subscriber
After riding the Street Glide and Chieftain dozens of times, I disagree that the HD has the better handling. It's low speed turn in and suspension/brakes are far superior. The HD feels incredibly top heavy and wants to dive left/right at very low speeds. At times it feels like wrestling a bull. Also, the Indian has stronger calipers, better forks and a Fox rear chock. They are all a great option though.
I ride a 2018 Roadglide special and really have no complaints. I’ve never rode an Indian, but the local Indian dealer is having a two day event coming up this month where you can come in and test ride every model. I’m kinda drawn to the Cheiftan, and I’m looking forward to taking it for a spin. Who knows, maybe I’ll make the switch.
I would like to see the Honda GoldWing DCT vs all of these. The GoldWing is a bagger and the Wing with the trunk is a GoldWing Tour. I have previously owned a 2017 Harley CVO Limited. I now have a 2018 GoldWing Tour DCT with airbag. Both Harley and GoldWing are great in their own way. Great review.
I think you guys should have compared the Regular Glide with the 107 instead of the Special 114. Just because of the price range. Great Video! Thanks for the info!
I totally agree. I rode other bikes and yeah they're nice, but there's something about Harley's that feels way more solid. (Except the 2022 sportster 975. It feels cheaply built) Folks like to complain about Harley but a lot of them are the guys that either don't take care of their bikes, or try to modify them so much to the point of it not running right.
Need to look at the bikes in 10 years and see how they look after 75k miles. I have a 2011 Electraglide with almost 70k miles. Chrome is still perfect and paint is too with the exceptions of a few stone chips. I have seen 10 year old Indians with rusty chrome. I have no experience with the BMW's so I cannot say anything good or bad about them. I have had no mechanical or electrical issues. Longest trip was a trip to Sturgis and around the Eastern US. Total miles was 7500.
@Justin Dawes doesn't feel like it this whole video felt like a HD hype video from the beginning sorry HD is the 3rd option in all categories and the Indian in the video looks like the base model
Can I just say thank you. I've seen a few HD's and R18's in the wild but Indian haven't really got a foothold in the UK yet. That said I've been looking at their bikes, they look great in pictures. This is the first review to show the Polaris group stuff that's carried across. I now realise there's a reason they're a little cheaper than the competition and that's because they're just not as special. The Beemer and HD are bespoke machines. As a UK/Euro rider I'd probably have the R18 Classic, partly due to dealer network, partly due to quality but mostly due to style. The big baggers are a little too big for our roads. Oh and I've also ridden 1100 and 1250 boxers so I already love those engines. Personally I'd have likes to see a telelever on the BMW though. It just seems right for a boxer.
I have a '21 Chieftain. I agree on fit and finish. Especially the paint, or paint options. But it mops the floor with the competition on power, tech, suspension and overall performance. Edit: the Harley SGS is the sexiest bike ever made IMO😁
I have the 21 SGS, 30k out the door and I’m in process of adding legend air along with yaffe stretched tank, sorrento seat, monkey bar 12” bars and upgraded lightings. Oh and electric center stand. I’ve already changed out headers and slip Ons. I love it but have had to spend 40k plus to get it really custom.
If you are actually going to go out and tour.....dealer network and support are HUGE, and even that is an understatement. H/D Dealers are everywhere. If nothing else that should be the main deciding factor if you are going to go out and really put miles down. The only thing H/D is missing is water cooling. In HOT conditions, especially at slower speeds, the engines just get too darn hot. BUT, it is still they way to go. Being on an H/D is just "right".
Yes everybody listen to the reviewers Indian sucks Harley rides better and it has a mysterious soul to it and it is a great bike for really tall guys and it is better in everyway smoother and less vibration keep buying them and do not even test drive a Indian listen to reviewers who prefer Harley they are always right. Do not buy Indians.
@@chonasimpson6487 I have never heard that in any legitimate reviewer's video. Most say that the ride is similar and some say Indian is better. Quality is usually won by Harley. Yeah the soul thing is a Harley plus and vibration is about equal. I almost bought a Scout when they first came out but there were better bikes out there. I really like the FTR and I wish I had a place for it in my life and in my garage. Just relax. S
I thank you for your review. I bought a 2022 Harley-Davidson SGS. This review tells me I did good. This is my second SGS. Pricey, yes! But you get what you pay for.
@@chonasimpson6487 I did try an Indian. They could not come close to my deal. Plus I would not have been able to use all my accessories I moved over. No Indians for me!
@@jeffm8882 - I think Indian Motorcycle is in a perfect place. Polaris has been around since1954 making high-quality, breakthrough products and broadening the view of Powersports. The future looks bright.
Be aware! At least my dealership here in East Texas is bumping prices above MSRP by $10,000 and still adding exorbitant Dealer Prep and Freight. For example, 2022 Road Glide CVO IS $54,995 plus all that they want. I think I have purchased my last HD. And selection will be limited all year. It's been nice Harley; see you. BTW, the bike in yellow/black is beautiful.
Great review! I think what does it for Harley is the incredible feel that you take when riding it; it’s hard to describe but there is a connection between man and machine that brings joy to the ride. The BMW is a great looking bike, plus I like the technology on it. I rode it but It was that indescribable feeling that made me fall for the Harley’s .
I liked Harleys untill i rode a Indian Roadmaster and now their is no going back for me .Its like driving a civic then driving a lincoln the ride is so much better on the Indian and for people over 5 ft 7 is more comfortable.
Great review. I have a ‘21 Street Glide Special and if no one else mentioned it, I just wanted to point out when you discussed pricing it may not have been clear that the RDRS does not come standard, so my dealership had to find one that had it for me, whereas I *believe* the traction control and ride modes are standard on the Chieftain. Clearly that wasn’t enough to make me switch sides :)
@@gambino_21sgs79 ah good to know…that may be the case in some locations. My dealership in SoCal had a mix of bikes with/without RDRS and didn’t have a black on black version with it so they had to pull one from another location and it did affect the price. Anyway, just an observation that it’s technically a factory upgrade and not included with the base model price.
I have a 2021 Goldwing non touring with the DCT and I can ride for miles and miles and not feel like I got beat up like these bikes but hey to each his own ride what you like.
If you are In the Market RIGHT NOW Is the Time to Pick Up an R18: Low Miles Pre-Owned there are some crazy low prices out there. I picked up the R18B From a Harley Dealer with 200 Miles for $10,499. STOLE IT!!!!!!!!!
I have never ridden a Harley but what you said about the suspension would knock it out of the running for me. Indian is a Polaris product so after I got so thoroughly screwed, when Polaris dropped support on my Victory, I would never buy a Polaris product again. That’s not just me because the workers at the motorcycle dealership that I frequent rate Polaris as the lowest in customer support. The BMW I have some experience with and I would call it an adventure cruiser. It’s fine on the freeway and passes Semi-trucks with ease, but I don’t like freeways. I took the R-18 through two reservations, including the Navajo Nation, and the roads out there are terrible but you have them all to yourself. The stability of the R-18 was incredible while navigating through all of the deep road ruts and bumpy surfaces. I was airborne at one point and the bike landed smoothly. The bike is kind of analog but so is my 2000 r1100r BMW so I’m used to it and I don’t care. The styling harkens back to the original BMW cruiser so I don’t know how these guys could label its styling as random. The more I rode it, the more I loved the bike and the 2022 Classic gets comments on its looks everywhere I go. I have had four cruisers, one Kawasaki, two Victory and a Yamaha Star Warrior. Only the old 850 Kawasaki and the BMW R-18 didn’t give me backaches from riding them. One last observation. When in town and on the freeway, most bikes that you see are Harley. Get into the outback in the middle of Nevada and northern Arizona you will see mostly BMW motorcycles. BMW bikes all have adventure in mind. KTM has racing high performance in mind and Harley and Indian are for in town posers riding to the bar or for a couch like experience on the interstate. Also the braking capability is of number one consideration in safety and even these two cats agreed on BMW having the most refined brakes.
The three of them are magnificent motorcycles, I have always been a Harley Davidson fan but since The German Company created this Amazing, powerful and impressive monster I became a loyal fan of the Awesome BMW R18 B which no doubt at all has become my favorite Motorcycle, because of it's massive, impressive, imponent and majestic boxer Engine which impress me a lot at first sight with those two massive and impressive Cylinders that outstand spectacularily at both sides of the huge and impressive boxer Engine, besides it's Beauty it's outstanding, great sound, powerful, majestic, very high Quality elememts all around, technology, in fact I m in love with this Spectacular German wild Beast!!!, So no doubt at all my favorite Motorcycle it's The absolutely Amazing BMW R18 B!!!, Very good explanation and video as well, so Thank You guys for sharing!!!, Greetings from Cuba!!!
great vid guys. IMO the Indian bikes have come along ways in the last few yrs. But Ill be sticking with Harley. The way I look at it is this. Say the I liked a certain bike model of the Indian and Harley exactly the same amount. (And theyre both good now). I would still certainly go with the Harley. Just because of the better customer support network the Harley brand provides. The amount of dealers and shops custom part manufacturing etc. that support Harley Davison is unparalleled. Is Indian catching up in this regard? yes. But...they syill have a long way to go.
Fit and finish: Triumph Rocket 3. Engine power: Triumph Rocket 3. By far. Handling, brakes, suspension: Triumph Rocket 3. By far. Feel: Nothing compares to the Triumph Rocket 3. Weight: Of course the Rocket. Touring comfort: The Rocket GT is the most comfortable I have ridden. Infotainment: Eh, not a biggie to me. ABS: the Rocket has it all. Modes: The Rocket shines.
My 22 Road Glide Limited has the same flutter when braking that you guys are talking about, from day one I thought the rotors came from the factory warped or something.
Indian Challenger outdoes them all in every aspect but fit and finish and that belongs to HD. There’s nothing on the road to compare to my Challenger, period! I guess you could buy a 131 and just be able to keep up after spending another 10k to keep pace with a stock Challenger!
I have the BMW R18B. I absolutely love the comfort and uniqueness of this bike. It has a lot of character and if kept under 80 it’s completely smooth. I rode for about 50 miles at 90 to 100 and although it vibrates it never hurt my hands or made me slow down. As a owner of numerous HD tourers, the BMW is a fresh breath of air, and you won’t see one on every corner.
I just bought a new 2023 B , any advice ? Thanks
Something else you won’t see on every street corner is a shop that will work on a BMW. I can’t speak for their bikes, but being in the automotive side they are needed…
As much as I dislike Polaris thru experience with several of their products I would easily by an Indian over a BMW
@@lanejohnson7656 bmw bikes aren’t like that I work at a dealer we never work on them
@@LEEBEECEE Buy the tools and buy the cable to reset the light when you do your own services. Absolutely use the specified fluids for service. Fuchs Titan EG 4218 BMW M3 GL5 spec 70w-80 hypoid gear oil for final drive on the shaft and gearbox. learn to adjust the valves and do oil changes yourself. PIA to pull the right fake "valve cover" and have to use a tool from the tool box to undo access to the motor oil spout.
@@JNAMOTORSPORTS Probably because the fluids, material and labor rates are exhorbitant for basic service.
Love those Indian motorcycles!
They just keep getting better and better!
BMW R18 - a piece of art👍 🌟
Except for the fact they can't give them away
Brand loyalty can hold one back. I've owned 3 HD's and 2 Goldwing's but my BMW is a precision beast. The TFT takes some getting use to but other than that it a fantastical motorcycle. we can armchair quarter back about what's the best bike but until you actually been on the BMW and first hand witness the fit and finish, it's engine and ride. Did I mention I had 2 GW's and 3 HD's?
Youve made my decision. When my Vulcan motor goes out I’m getting a BMW
Venturing off into the unknown can also be bad. I have zero experience with their bikes but have some experience with their cars being in automotive. Finding a shop that will work on a BMW can be a nightmare depending on where you are and many areas will have to resort to trailering it to a shop. And on the automotive side they need repairs.. lol. That alone will keep me off a BMW seat.
@@lanejohnson7656 BMW cars and BMW motorcycles are a completely different. Don't judge the Bikes until you try it.
@@lanejohnson7656The issues is the same in the UK but in reverse, finding a place to service a HD is almost impossible, BMW however offer very good service packages.
@@charleschenet2336 If I find their cars not so great I’m not going to spend my money on a motorcycle of theirs.. lol I like BMW car styling because they are wickedly cool looking cars, but you couldn’t give me one. I have a hard time believing their bikes are any better..
This is why i love competition in an open market. It forces competitors to be better and better!
That Thunderstroke engine in the Chieftain is bulletproof and so much fun.
until you hit 50k miles...then it goes kaput
@@thesage1621 really ? 😮
@@thesage1621 not true Harley guy. I have 50k miles on mine not a single problem except there was some sort of relief valve on the front of the right side case that would weep a drop or 2. It was hardly noticeable. I got it changed out
I just dont like the looks of the BMW.
I'd like to know what bike Justin rides. I bet I already know.
I have a Chieftain and agree on the stock seat, i didn't like it at all, so changed it to the stock Roadmaster seat and it's so much better. I find the foot position compared to the Harley is so much more comfortable. I find the Harley just sits too high and found I couldn't lean it as far as the Indian. I have stage 1 and 2 performance upgrades and the bike has great power, and very comfortable on long trips
Still like your Indian? I’m about to buy one. Long time Harley rider here
Great reviews guys. Your conversations are perfect for these bikes. I am 6’3” and I have the BMW R18 TransCon and it’s a work of art. I feel like I have lots of leg room. And the 10 inch screen, stereo, acc, brakes, suspension and overall tech is light years ahead. After 20 years of sport touring and adventuring riding, it’s nice to slow down and lumber. The vibration disappears using roll mode and the character works.
Honestly I've owned several Harleys and the BMW R18B is hands down my favorite bagger I've experienced.
I picked up a Chieftain and have no complaints.
Still liking it?
@@thomasjoseph9224 yes. Went from a Rocket 3 Roadster. Less power (stage 2 kit helped a bit) but much nicer ride.
My last HD spent 17 weeks in the shop during is first year. Switched to Indian and very happy!
Apparently you absolutely suck at taking care of your bikes. My Harley is a 2004 with 50k miles and it's in pristine condition.
@@fmpabxx7834may have got a dud lol. I have a 2019 sgs with 84k miles and still running strong. Only needed Oil and tires.
Yeah right because you have hardly any miles on your bike. 50,000 miles on a 21 year old bike. Pathetic really. My bike looks good because l don't ride it. HAHAHA😂😂😂@@fmpabxx7834
@@fmpabxx7834 You need to back off man. He clearly states it was in his first year-that's not "taking care of" his bike, that's a clear poor build and warranty claim nightmare, which a couple of my friends have had with Harley as well. Maybe 2004 was a great build quality year, but the more recent years......I hear more hit and miss. 3 of the older guys I ride with tried the new Goldwing and they were all mad they hadn't dumped their Harleys years ago. And a Goldwing will easily double the total miles a Harley will while being way faster, smoother, and getting better mileage.
Price matters. My 2022 R18B was $16k before $500 military discount. No HD or Indian came close. Shaft drive, no belt adjustment.
LMAO.... wait until you get the service bills on that. Price of parts is outrageous. You'll get final drive service bills for 500 ml $75 bottle of 70w-80 G3 hypoid oil every service. $1100 services every 12k miles. And a biggy at 24k miles for transmission fluid service too.
Are you insane? Fluids changes are easy to do compared to a HD. $75 for gear oil ? No way.
You are Right! If you are In the Market RIGHT NOW Is the Time to Pick Up an R18: Low Miles Pre-Owned there are some crazy low prices out there. I picked up the R18B From a Harley Dealer with 200 Miles for $10,499. STOLE IT!!!!!!!!!
@@feloniousmonk3049 As if Harley service is cheap ha ha ha
You can afford it compared to a 40k Harley. Oh wait, now Harley is woke. Wait for it, the gay drive. You can get it in every color of the rainbow. Remember Cartman!
Just ordered a 2022 Indian Chieftain Dark Horse, it arrives in September. Though I'll miss riding for this summer, I'm still excited about the bike. It offers some much more standard opinions than any of the two bikes listed in the video.
My 2014 Indian Chieftain has been an amazing bike. I've never had a better bike, and I've owned them all. I am seriously considering the Indian Challenger, though.
Did you get a challenger? I think if I had the money the challenger would be the best bike
I'm still searching my Chieftain for that "blow-molded plastic" with the untrimmed flashing. Was your test bike a kit?
I got r18 tc 2022 dis bike have everything very cool and comfortable bike
I feel you didn't mention the Indian comes with power locking saddlebags, Power adjusting windscreen, tire pressure monitoring, and LED lights all the way around. You can't get that on a Harley unless you get a CVO, but you still don't have a power windscreen. I had a 2018 street guide special, and I felt cramped on that bike, And after about 20,000 miles I kept smelling oil when I got through riding it, I have no idea why. So I traded it in on a 2020 Indian chieftain elite, and I don't regret it at all.
seems like a bias.
Probably because not everyone cares for those 3 features.
To me personally a power windshield is a gimmicky feature that’s it not a matter of if but when it will fail. My Klockwerks is not only install and forget with zero worry of mechanical failure but also adds to the looks of the bike..
Whenever I’m getting off the bike I am opening at least one bag to throw gloves in and grab a hat. I’m literally standing right next to the bag so locking it (if I want to) isn’t an issue. I also don’t have to have my fob if I want to get in it or someone else I know is getting into it if it’s unlocked. Which happens a lot in my experience.
I’m not a fan of tire pressure monitors because for 1 tires balance better internally, I often order tires and install them myself, I don’t like ugly weights on the outside of the wheel and most importantly I like to inspect my tires frequently and I trust a gauge more. With tire monitors people to tend to get lazy and just look at the screen to see pressure and not inspect their tires.
@Lane Johnson And that's okay, but a lot of us do care about those features. You do you, that's okay, those of us that like those features, will enjoy them. I have two Harleys, and I have two Indians, so I'm not a Harley hater, I love my Harleys, but I love my Indians too. Harley fan boys are just haters, they hate anything not Harley. I like all motorcycles, I don't care about the name on the gas tank, if I like it, I like it.
@@hdmoto3875 I’m far from Harley or die. Yamaha made some of the most sexy and reliable bikes on the planet. It’s sad they got out of the game.
Something to ponder on. When you demand manufacturers to add features that will end result make their products disposable and throw away with systems to fail with time, you will get a throw away bike that drops in value dramatically.. Not a big concern if constantly chasing the latest and greatest and can afford the loss.
I always owned HD Touring bikes and my last one is a CVO Road Glide. Last week end I bought a BMW Transcontinental and the handling of this bike in tight curves and hairpin bends is amazing and much better than the various HD Touring bikes I had. Suspensions too are way better than the Street Glide or Road Glide or Limited I had all with Ohlins shocks. The level of details and perceived quality is just amazing with the BMW R18 B or Transcontinental. The Torque that these bikes give in REAL life (not with numbers only...) is exactly the same of a 114 ci HD V-Twin. Vibrations? Use the mapping modes and learn how to manage RPMs with this huge Boxer 1800 cc engine and everything will be under control. The 10.5 inches TFT of the R18 B or Transcontinental is from another league. The Marshall stage 2 of my Transcontinental is way better than the Boom Audio 2 system of my CVOs (Street Glide, Road Glide). These bikes are way better than what I see in many USA videos where reviewers or wannabe ones tend to always stay with American bikes.
Id say Harley sponsored there review!
If you're touring on these motorcycles, Harley dealerships are everywhere, while BMW dealerships are scarce. A breakdown on a BMW motorcycle could literally result in a tow of hundreds of miles to the nearest dealership.
@@dh2392 probably in Your Country. In Europe BMW dealers are definitely more present, in number, than HD dealers.
@@CVO_MAN yes, I am talking about the US. Here BMW dealers are not common.
@@dh2392 Harley dealerships are everywhere because there are harleys break down everywhere. LOL just a motorcycle joke.
That Indian rear suspension does it for me - My Streetglide nearly broke my back 😏
Agreed HD rear shocks are embarrasing !! swapped out for Ohlins as first thing to do
I think everyone would agree Harleys rear suspension is shit, and they probably make it that way on purpose.
Excellent video, guys. Working for such a corporate stalwart, I give you mad respect for your consistent objectivity. I own a '21 Street Bob and plan to add a '22 RKS to the stable this year, and found your analysis useful. I'm just too much of a purist to add infotainment. Thanks for making such great content.
I thought the same but quickly changed my mind after I bought mine. You will like it especially on those long rides.
@@mojomanmurph1925 So you're saying you've got a SGS and prefer it over the RKS? I ask because, ironically I just sat on a SGS at the dealership last week and loved the ergonomics. For me, it was WAY more well-suited than the RGS. Granted, I'm 5'9" and the RGS cockpit seemed "too far," but the SGS seemed like Goldilocks. I'm looking to buy by summer, so I'll give it a serious look. Thank you.
@@Peter-mcmcmc I have a 2020 sgs with ALOT of aftermarket and S.E parts and I love everything about it. I’m 6ft and with the mustang seat, ext rear brake lever, floorboards and 12” bars, it’s great for my height. Legs aren’t pressed to the tank, pulled back controls, and the seat with the lever gave me like 2” leg extension. I changed the F&R suspension because I’m heavier and carry gear. All things being equal the SGS and RKS are the same minus the fairing and what comes with it. I couldn’t imagine not having a full fairing after having one, like with my pickup truck, given that I’m likely to say “let’s go” and haul out for 2-3 days. The RGS to my understanding is diff in that you’re less leaned back than with the SGS but idk as I’ve never been on one. My gf was thinking RKS but then the heritage caught her eye and she fell in love.
Glad they picked the bike you like even though they are full of it lol.
@@ICEMANINVADER Thanks for your insights and sorry for my delayed response. Ironically, I was at the dealership last week and a 2020 SGS with 12" bars caught my eye. AS SOON AS I SAT ON IT, I knew it was a serious contender for my dollars, alongside a RKS. I'm nowhere near your height (5'9"), but, like you, the seating position and general ergonomics felt "Goldilocks." No doubt those 12" bars made the difference compared to when I sat on the RKS.
My 2019 FLHTK is extremely comfortable, looks amazing( Granted I did chrome all around and changed every light to LED). Threw on a full Cobra exhaust(deleted the cat) and a Woods 22xe cam and an arleness heavy breather and now runs like a rocket. Couldn't be happier!
I notice that folks rarely mention the BMW's adaptive cruise control and the reverse gear? Why is that? I found the ACC to be a game changer for touring, and the reverse gears make it a breeze to move the bike around.
ACC is definitely a game changer
Where is the goldwing?
Three antique motorcycles competing each other!
So to recap- INDIAN - better motor, better Brakes, better suspension, better infotainment and GPS system, better stereo, adjustable windscreen, TPS.
HARLEY- "refinement & feel"
Aka- biggest advertiser dollars.
You guys expect people to take you seriously? What a joke.
I kinda of feel sorry for these guys.
More than a joke. This is a loss of credibility to most people with a working brain can see.
You guy’s did a great comparison test, thank you. You both just nailed it. The touring/cruiser segment is a totally different animal than race/sport bike categories.
LOL! Another biased shootout! In all of Cycle World reviews they always pick a Harley as the winner. Guess you love HD's dollars more then actually doing an unbiased review.
I haven't ridden the BMW so I can't comment but, the SGS is not as good as you make out it to be. The Indian is the better all round package over the SGS especially, in the handling and performance side of things.
How is it biased? They called out good and bad on all the bikes. Anyone who rides knows a lot of it comes down to personal preference.
@@bvrsqzr3569 It is biased because they always choose Harley in all of their reviews.
I was always told "There is no replacement for displacement. BMW R18 wins
All the Harley fans say excellent video .Of course they would.
I owned a Harley for 18 years and rented numerous BMW’s. I currently have an Indian dark horse chieftain. I love Harleys, but Indian is a better motorcycle all around. Unless you want all the merchandise and the belonging that Harley brings, I don’t see why you would buy one over an Indian. The best motorcycle I’ve ever ridden is a BMW 1250 GS adventure. The power, the speed, and the balance and the agility are amazing and the tech on it is incredible.
Love these comparisons. Great job as always!
Nice review guys, I own a RGS and a Chieftain and agree with your opinion on fit and finish. Where I would disagree is in the handling aspect, Harley stock suspensions have always been hot garbage, the main reason so many guys turn to fox, ohlins ect as the first mod done to the bike. The mono shock is a far superior design and the Indians now come with fox installed. You left out one major category and that’s reliability.I can’t speak to BMW as I have never owned one but the Indian is as close to bullet proof as you can get, just like it’s cousin the Victory bikes were. The Harleys seem to always have issues with every bike they put out, us Harley owners just come to expect it as part of owning a Harley. My father used to tell me when I was young don’t buy a Harley unless your willing to work on it, and unless you have the money to pay a dealer that advice still rings true today. That being said I will always own a Harley even tho they are far from the best bike available they are however the most loved bike available by most Americans.
This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for the input. I have a Vic Cross Country that really didn’t give me many problems. I was pissed when they shut down Vic, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before I buy a Harley given their reliability, and that BMW looks like it’s got a face only a mother could love.
Thanks again man!
I owned a 2014 Street Glide Special with the 103 and regret selling it. I really loved it and enjoyed riding it like I stole it 😎. I now own a 2004 Road King with the 88 engine and numbered 15/100. I really love the way it rides better than the Street Glide I owned previously. I’m thinking of getting the R18B. I want something different and nostalgic.
Watched the video. Thks for the review. Been riding forever, owned many diff bikes. My 2021 R18C is fantastic! It's very smooth! I had it Brentuned, DNA Stage 2 air cleaner, makes GREAT power...excellent gearing...handles great...set the cruise at 105mph...freakin' SOLID...blows away many things....most importantly it is UNIQUE...reminds me of a FW-190... The most unique character of the 3. Btw...parking lot speeds are a breaze! It's all in the clutch! Plus, you FORGOT to mention it has reverse! Best bike of the 3 imo...HD ...yawn...as common as the flu in January.
Fair, honest review. You can always rely on Morgan to give a review that even weighs the "intangibles." Well done!
I have not watched the whole video but i suspect when someone says fair and honest review it usually means they think the Harley was the best lol. Sorry Indian for the win and its not even close.
I bought my HD SG Special in Snake Venom blacked out 114 last August. It only has just over two inches of travel and you feel it. Rides and corners perfectly, slow handling is exceptional. I like the stock seat for now. Picked up a new 2021 Indian Challenger for the wife for Christmas, this is a beast! Outperforms HD in every way except fit and finish and for me style, which is subjective.
Go with legends suspension, total difference...👍🏁🏁
Comparing water cooled to air cooled
@@davidvanbrunt4233 Or Wilbers. Even better.
Great comparison but one important point was missed and that's the reliability and maintenance cost of these three bikes. In which order you would classify these bikes?
Hi, i am writimg to you from Germany near Munic. I drive only BMW cars, but never a BMW Bike.
I own 2 Harley Davidsons, a Ultra Limited and an new Fat Boy. The BMW and the Indian are also very
nice Bikes, but it never feels like a Harley. For me it exists only one Bike...Harley Davidson 4ever!!!!
Good job!!!!!
Leaving out the gold wing was a mistake. I know you can't have them all though but the Gold Wing has earned it's place. I'm not biased. I ride a Street Glide daily ;). Great video either way.
Might as well buy a scooter.
@@jeffm8882 I have a 2020 road glide but that new GoldWing is a bad bitch!
I rode my Victory Vision from San Diego to Sturgis to SLC and then home to Massachusetts…when I rode around Sturgis guess what make of motorcycle I ALWAYS saw on the the side of the road broken down? Right the Harley Davidson…
Considering the bike brands hanging around Sturgis is probably 85% Harley ..that's not surprising.
I have been looking at buying a bagger and Harley so far come in 2 nd because I have to buy the bike and immediately change the seat and upgrade the suspension. Bmw is not on my list. Indian Challenger so far is no.1. great suspension and seat. Engine is great. Waiting to see if Yamaha is bringing their bagger back.
Have to agree. I am now on my second Indian and won’t go back. I don’t agree with these two on their fit and finish opinion, but that’s ok. I do not like that 107/114 at all. I’ve had two HD and two Indians. I agree with you on the fact that HD will sell you an expensive bike with a ton of flaws that YOU can pay to fix and “make it your own”. No thanks, I don’t agree with their opinion on HD fit and finish. But! It is your money, get what YOU want. I don’t judge the Harley guys because that’s what they like. I laugh whenever they go for the Polaris line. OK…
Too bad for you. Harleys and Indians are nice but limiting. It’s like touring in a truck. It’ll get you there but limits your Performence. Ride the BMW and you’ll never look back.
If your waiting on Yamaha to come back with a bagger your not to serous about buying a new bike
Well, it's horses for arses. Rubber side down. Cheers!
The one thing you couldn't assess was reliability. How will these bikes rate 3 years from now?
there were five BMW shops within 12:40 hour of my house here in western Pennsylvania. Now there are zero BMW shops. That didn’t matter much with the old air cold twins that gave BMW they’re excellent reputation for reliability and ease of maintenance.
but starting with the K bikes in the early 80s, the BMWs were not so simple or serviceable by the owner anymore. BMW is the only manufacturer of cars and motorcycles I can think of that creates special fasteners that you need special tools to remove and install many things.. I had to buy a special tool just to bleed my clutch fluid on my K 1200 LT. I was advised by BMW owners on blogs to not even attempt to change the brake fluid on my K 1200 LT because if I got air in the system, the complete braking system was shut down completely at the computer, and it would have to be trailered to the dealer to have him plug it in to do a reset. And, although I did the job myself after buying a special adapter to increase the volume of the master cylinders because of those electric/hydraulic brakes., That would have quickly sucked the brake fluid out of those small master cylinders, shutting down the system, which is what happened to EWAN McGregor, and his friend Charlie Boorman when they went around the world on BMWs back in the 2000s. They had a brake Failure on one of their GS machines, and even though they were on the phone to the factory engineers, they could not jury rig something to get the brakes to work at all. A little inconvenient because this happened in the middle of nowhere in Mongolia were the closest people rode yaks. Somehow they were able to find someone with a vehicle to transport them to the train station where they sent it back to England with no brakes..
my point is, with bMWs, you have to marry the dealer even if you are a do it yourself mechanic like I am. I was a mechanic at four different dealerships when I was in my 20s. I do all my own work I always have, even warranty work, I had a 750 Honda that had defective valve guides from the factory. there was a recall. I pulled my own engine and pulled ahead and gave the dealership which I actually used to work at one time to them to change the valve guides because I didn’t have the tools for that. Then I buttoned it back up and plugged the motor in..
but with today’s motorcycles, especially BMWs, you have to marry the dealer, and around here in western Pennsylvania, all five dealerships are gone..
my experience with my very first BMW K 1200 LT, with many issues, convinced me, I will never buy another BMW. I’ve had three ventures, AGL 1800 Gold 1, four moto guzzis, many dozens of Japanese bikes, Kawasaki triple two strokes, Yamaha RDs and TZ‘s, RZ, Suzukis two and four wheel, Hondas, CB 400 F, CB 750 F, CR 125, even a Bridgestone 350 GTR, beta, gas gas, and fantic trials bikes, I currently have a Kawasaki Z 400 , and I went backwards and years to get away from ABS brakes and bought a Yamaha royal star venture, they can be serviced practically with the tool kit on the side of the road if the clutch, slave cylinder, STATOR, or water pump were to give me trouble on a trip. try that on a GL 1800 or a BMW K 1200 LT..
I do my homework, but if you don’t, labor rates in dealerships now are $125 an hour.. I had a mechanic that was a BMW motorcycle mechanic in one of the local shops in 2010. He was working on a K 1200 LT when I stopped in for an air filter. He called me back to his work area and showed me that he had to remove the trunk, the bags, the fender, the rear frame section, the swingarm, the wheel, the transmission to get out the clutch, because the clutch was ruined when the slave cylinder leaked on it. He said, this is a $4500 job, and that was in 2010 prices..
That’s something to think about before you go out on that BMW limb
Sorry about your experience Jody. I don't know what 12:40 means but there seems to be about the same number of BMW shops here in western PA as there were when I brought my first R75 back from Germany in '75. Not that it really mattered much. I'm on my 5th BMW since then with over 175,000 miles on them and have never had to take any of them to a shop. The most was a 99 K1200 LT with about 75,000 miles in 15 years without a problem or maintenance that couldn't be done at home. I realize the computers of newer bikes will probably require special tools should the need arise. Also, as a disclaimer, I never used the stereo on the LT and will probably never use a NAV system on a bike. I concur with some of the criticisms of the R18 they pointed out. As I currently tour on an RT, none of those apply. I think most of us would enjoy riding whatever we have and there's a lot of nice looking bikes out there.
@@conecomp8835
I didn’t want to complain and badmouth my only BMW I ever had. I know a lot of BMW riders. But they mostly rode the old air cooled twins.. A buddy of my name Wayne Kelly had a BMW specialist shop.. One of the things he specialized in was dual plugging the heads..
here are some of the issues I had with my K 1200 LT
if I use the side stand. On the restart it would pour white smoke out the exhaust. My dealer in Wexford PA said that’s normal
The rear brakes made a horrible grinding sound. The dealer said he could fix that for $750. New rotor and pads from the aftermarket
Final drives we’re failing across the country. Two guys that actually rode together and won the iron butt on bmw’s They carried a complete spare final drive. that had to weigh 40 or 50 pounds…
The windshield was optically distorted. For a motorcycle costing that much that’s not acceptable.
It had hydraulic/electric brakes. They had no feel. They were grabby at below 5 mile an hour speeds. The weird front end did not absorb braking energy. When you hit the front brakes, that energy from the motion and decelerating would go into your front fork springs on a conventional front end..But only on that BMW front end that nobody else in the industry has even attempted to copy, when you hit the brakes, that energy does not go into the front fork springs. That makes the bike a handful to control. The thing weighed 900 pounds.That is the only motorcycle I have dropped in the past 40 years. talking to other BMW K 1200 LT owners about me dropping my machine. They laughed and said, get used to it, everybody drops them and they were not kidding.. I dropped it 2 times in parking lots with the front wheel slightly turned when I would hit the grabby no feel electric brakes.
The machine had a security system that if I stopped for just enough time to fill the gas tank, I would have to get out that key fob and press the button to deactivate the security system every time.
you must bleed the brakes at least every 2 yrs on those machines because they use electric pumps in the ABS braking system to feed the hydraulic pressure to the calipers. every site I found on the Internet said- dont even attempt to do this yourself. If you get air in the system, the bike will have to be trailered to the dealer because it shuts down The complete brake system on the machine you won’t have any brakes front or rear so it goes to the dealer and gets plugged in..
this happened to actor EWAN McGregor and his friend Charlie Boorman as they were circling the globe on BMW GS machines with ABS.They made a television series that was on television called long way around about that trip. And in the television series it showed them having problems with the brakes that could not be fixed.
They had been trained on how to work on the machine before they left on that trip by the factory technicians. They had satellite phones with them in Mongolia when they had a brake problem. No matter what they tried with the assistance of engineers on the phone, they could not get the brakes to work even a little bit. They ended up transporting that bike to a train station somewhere in Mongolia with the help of the locals, and they had to ship it back to England. They ended up buying a Jawa motorcycle for the cameraman, and took his BMW to finish the trip. That’s how complex that computer controlled ABS brake system is..
so that had me very concerned about attempting to change the brake fluid myself. I called the dealer in Wexford and asked when can I get an appointment and how much is it just to change the brake fluid.. they could squeeze me in in three months, and I believe it was $750 just to change the brake fluid plus parts plus shop materals plus disposal fee plus tax.
I ended up buying a video showing me how to do it which was very simple actually. The danger was the master cylinder was too small and because it had electric pumps that sucked the brake fluid out it could empty that Reservoir in a couple seconds as soon as you turn the key on. So you just add a little container that made the master cylinder reservoir able to hold about a quart of brake fluid it seems. That was the answer. It was simple after that, but $750??? Parts were expensive too. I think I paid $30 for a bmw oil filter. I think the air filter cartridge was $85.. that was 2010 prices..
an acquaintance was a mechanic at that BMW shop in Wexford. He had a BMW K 1200 LT on the lift with the whole back end of the machine off. All the luggage trunk wheel transmission all off and the flywheel was exposed. I asked him what was up with that machine when I stopped in to see him one day. He said the slave cylinder leaked on the clutch ruining the clutch. I asked him how much is this gonna cost the owner. He said about $4500. That was in 2010.. probably $6000 today..
I struck a deer at 70 miles an hour on that BMW. I didn’t go down. $5500 damage. nothing unusual there.. but both of those mirrors went straight to China when I hit that deer. In 2010, those mirrors were $492 each, plus tax. I thousand dollars for two mirrors? They weren’t even power mirrors, or heated mirrors..
it was one shock after another owning my first BMW. And that’s my last. They sure ain’t what they used to be. I never experienced costs, or symptoms, or imperfections, or flaws like that on any of my Japanese motorcycles or on my 4 moto guzzi’s or my fantic, beta, or gasgas non japanese machines…especially not combined all problems in one bike, that happened to be the most expensive motorcycle I ever owned..
please don’t take this personally, but I don’t think that the BMW I owned was even as well-made or as reliable as a 1969 Honda CB 750.. it was the most flawed most expensive motorcycle I ever owned. I will never buy another BMW. When I speak to other BMW owners that are honest. They don’t defend their machines. they reluctantly agree with me..
part of the enjoyment I get out of owning motorcycles and I’ve owned many dozens of motorcycles. I won’t even tell you because you won’t believe me. But I enjoy working on them. But with a BMW, you have to marry the dealer unless you have all the “ special tools” they sometimes require.. I had to buy a special wrench just to change the brake fluid. And that special adapter to increase the volume of my master cylinder to change the brake fluids..
my BMW K 1200 had A great seat. My wife loved the passenger seat, and both seats were heated. That was wonderful. The grips were heated. It had an electric up down windshield. reverse,That was nice. It had a center stand and a little handle for lifting the bike on to the center stand. That was a nice touch. I thought the bike was beautiful. Mine was black.. it was very smooth on the highway, and it rotated left to right very sharply. The brakes were extremely powerful. The rear wheel was very easy to remove with that single-sided swingarm.. I thought the bags were a little small. I liked the big gas tank. The speedometer/odometer was off by about 10%. Which made it appear to get better gas mileage than it was actually getting. It would say I went 100 miles, when I only went about 90 miles and it had the correct size tires front and rear. There was not much of a selection available for it in the tire department..
It had many great qualities, but it had many flaws and that’s why I got rid of it. The worst flaw was how unstable it felt with those grabby no feel electric brakes.. every time I had to pull up to a stop sign, I was nervous, because I thought I was gonna drop it again if those brakes started to grab unexpectedly again if I had to turn the handlebars doing a parking lot maneuver..
I had a good friend of mine that owns a collision repair shop do the repairs after the deer impact. He did excellent excellent work. Not even a single Phillips screw head had the paint flaked off of it. It looked as good as new. it had all new plastic, new headlight, new windshield, new front fender, new fairing stay, new mirrors. Everything looked new, I sold it and bought my 4th moto guzzi.. a norge which i rode for 12 years.. it had abs, Single sided swingarm, excellent suspension with much adjustability that the Italian machines are famous for, a great seat, heated grips, electric windshield, projector beam headlights, four of them, and I could adjust the valves on that in 45 minutes without even removing the gas tank.. I only saw that because I want a more upright position for a long distance, that’s why I bought the Venture
@@Jodyrides Well, I bought a R1200R in 2012 and up til today, after almost 100,000km. I can say, that I never had any issue with the bike so far. Just normal service and replacing the usual wear parts. Did a handful of tours across Europe with it.... the only thing I had to do was filling gas into the tank. Also all other BMW owners I know had hardly any issues with their bikes over the years. You might have had a lemon. Happens once in a while. But I doubt that you spoke to that many other BMW owners. Especially to ones with boxers.
You wrote a book that nobody wanted.
Wow.
Great review. Having been a Harley rider all my life (still own 2. 01 fatboy and 74 shovel) went to an Indian Springfield in 16. It was different at first, but the "connection" you guys mentioned, came around.
My 16 chieftan is tight smooth ride and the price comparison you guys didn't mention you get more for your money speaking with the indian where as Harley always wants extra for windshield that doesn't move floor boards on a indian are gigantic
@@stephentest9117 Indian gives you more for your money alright.. Very limited paint options, terrible colors of what options you do have, what paint you get wasn’t well done, inferrer chrome, a gimmicky windshield and a guarantee that it will not hold its value in comparison..
What a deal..
@@lanejohnson7656it won't hold value because harley artificially inflates their prices, they purposely don't sell good deals and they want you to trade in old bikes so they can get you into another overpriced bike but then they can sell used Harleys at a higher price to appear "value retained"
This is pretty interesting since I have owned 4 harleys, so if I compare the bmw r18b which I own now to my 2021 roadglide with a 128 in it, it rides so much beter even I had all my suspension upgraded on my harley. Bottom end torque is way more then a stage 2 114 harley. It has as much torque as my 128 had. Not top end power ofcourse but bottom end definitely. Overall way better bike then a harley.
NO doubt at all My favorite Motorcycle of these there Amazing Bikes it's The Absolutely Stunning, Superb, Spectacular and Unique BMW R18 Bagger ❤👊✌️👍😊!!!
Funny, I own 2 sport tourings and 1 each sport and ADV bikes, and at my local dealership this summer BMW was offering extended test rides of the R18. I expected to hate it, but I nearly bought it on the spot I liked it so much. I’d never buy a Harley, simply because when riding with my buddies (6 different brands, probably 200 days of touring), the only failures that we’ve ever had were the HDs, and it happened twice. No thanks.
Bmw has a much higher failure rate tho than harley Harleys is 26% failure rate while bmw is 48%
@@zanderburchfield5832 well. That said, the Harleys on our rides, someone always has an issue.
Wise man people today are very easily controled to buy certian products based on marketing alone and tend to want to fall in line like sheep. That is why you see so many Harleys on the road or side of the road lol. I see this slowly changing and see many more Indians good for Indian but i liked it better when my roadmastrer was a minority.
PCH and Bixby bridge filming beautiful motorcycles never gets old.
Love to have a Harley but there is still to many issues with the engine.
Not interested in having the bike at the dealership for stator, twisted crank, or crank runout, or cam bearings or chains in the engine in the primary or on the cam issues.
And 2” of rear suspension is something that should have been addressed years ago.
Everything you mentioned is crap you read about but just doesn’t happen. The short travel is real but not much better on the other two.
@@k9m42 The R 18 B is considerably better in the rear suspension. Even better than my Sport Glide with Legend front and rear suspension and Saddlemen Explorer aftermarket back seat. There's plenty of poorly maintained 2 lane canyon and mountain roads here in Southern CA, and the R 18 Bagger suspension with the tall seat option is the best, most progressive and plushest of the bunch. I know, I'm 65, 6' 5" and 275# and my lower back tells me it is so.
The Gold Wing bagger is what you need.
K1600b destroys the gld
Lol
I have an Indian Chief Vintage 2016 and I like it. I like all three of those bikes that you tested too. Good review guys. 🏍️
This was one of the most balanced and objective reviews of three baggers that i have seen. Well done guys. While it was balanced, I did scream at the video a few times….especially when it came to the comment that Indian wasn’t that comfortable / lacked room-e-ness on the floordboards and seat. I realize this is subjective - but - by all accounts many riders argue how UNcomfortable the Harley stock seat is. HD floorboards…seem fine and no issues from my perspective. I was surprised that you didn’t mention the throttle lag on the Indian which is a real disappointment but you learn to manage it. Again, this was a well done review of the three !!!
The stock seat on my SGS is very comfortable.
I have a Chieftain that had that throttle lag, the dealership reprogrammed it and it worked much better. I also find when in sport mode it completely eliminates any lag at all, it's much more responsive
@@c5vette739 I had a SG and on a 400 mile ride, I was in pain. For me, short distances the stock HD SG seat was fine….but forget about it on long hauls. Thanks for the comment!!
@@jamesrichardson2893 Ok, I have now have a Challenger, stage 1…and might need to get it re-tuned…as I still have some throttle lag but have gotten used to it. Good idea, thanks for the comment.
@@jamesrichardson2893 lol I may need to complain to the dealer then, see if they'll retune my Challenger for free. I totally get why people dislike the low end throttle input. On the rm I had, it was smooth.
Victory made Harley work hard to keep up. Had a 2011 Cross Country and it could carve mountain roads and walk away from the Harleys.We Victory owners were thrown under the bus when they sold out to Indian and made our bikes worthless overnight. Victory was one of the best bikes I ever owned.
I STILL OWN MY VICTORY CC PLUS A INDIAN AND A STREET GUIDE, THE VICTORY CC HANDLES BETTER AND WILL OUT RUN IN THE CORNERS AND STRAIGHT OF WAYS
I completely agree. I would actually say, "Victory made Harley work hard to CATCH up." That Freedom 106 engine was way ahead of Harley for years. In fact, I'd put my 106 up against any stock HD 107....that had several problems when it came out. By the way, I'm not a HD hater. I have one, but I have to be honest.
My 2011 Jackpot walks all over those HD 107’s. Long liv e the Freedom 106!!
The reviewers couldn't seem to detach indian from Polaris, why not try an indian? I absolutely love my chieftain.
What Polaris did to Victory owners is a big reason why I will likely never buy an Indian. They dropped Victory, screwing their customers to try to play off a names heritage that was dead for at least a half century.
I’m not a fan of Polaris due to terrible experiences with their jet skis and 4 wheelers so I I’ve never been excited to drop $30+k to see if their bikes are any better. I damn sure won’t drop $30+k to be tomorrows Victory owner..
They would have earned more respect from me by building up the Victory and building their own legacy and heritage instead of dropping it for a dead name and try to play it off as it never died. And the victory bikes except that funky looking touring bike had a better style to begin with..
Can’t remember what model of Victory caught my eye. I was all in on it until I seen the Polaris casting on the engine (I wasn’t aware Polaris owned them at the time). Instant flashbacks of my sisters jet ski she purchased 1 year before Polaris quit making them. It was a pile of crap day 1 and lived in a shop. Brother in law tried to trade it and the dealerships flat out told him they didn’t want it. He finally hauled it to the dump where it belonged before even being unboxed. I’ve been around FAR more junk Polaris 4 wheelers than decent ones.
I have an r18c, and when I watched this video a few months ago, I sympathized with the vibration issue.
However, I have driven 15000km now, but I can confirm that the large vibration has been greatly reduced. That's a fact that surprises even me
I own the 2022 FLHXSE in Steel Blue. The backlit controls and heated grips are awesome. Few people review this. When you ride at night and you probably will at some time.. this is as good as it gets. No guessing where the brites and horn are :) The GPS is easy to see in the sun and the sterio is amazing. Harley paint options(even the paint on the rims) are great. i dont see anyone close on these options yet. great channel, new subscriber
the challenger is in a class of its own
After riding the Street Glide and Chieftain dozens of times, I disagree that the HD has the better handling. It's low speed turn in and suspension/brakes are far superior. The HD feels incredibly top heavy and wants to dive left/right at very low speeds. At times it feels like wrestling a bull. Also, the Indian has stronger calipers, better forks and a Fox rear chock.
They are all a great option though.
Yare yare daze 👌
I need to ride the harley 114. I've ridden the chieftain and absolutely love it
Nothing like the feeling of a Harley,it’s a modern day Classic,Period!
Maintenance and reliability? Which bike will let you stranded in the middle of nowhere more likely?
I ride a 2018 Roadglide special and really have no complaints. I’ve never rode an Indian, but the local Indian dealer is having a two day event coming up this month where you can come in and test ride every model. I’m kinda drawn to the Cheiftan, and I’m looking forward to taking it for a spin. Who knows, maybe I’ll make the switch.
I would like to see the Honda GoldWing DCT vs all of these. The GoldWing is a bagger and the Wing with the trunk is a GoldWing Tour. I have previously owned a 2017 Harley CVO Limited. I now have a 2018 GoldWing Tour DCT with airbag.
Both Harley and GoldWing are great in their own way.
Great review.
The K bike too
Interesting review format and would like to see future reviews done similarly.
I think you guys should have compared the Regular Glide with the 107 instead of the Special 114. Just because of the price range. Great Video! Thanks for the info!
I don't hate Indian but when you sit a Indian and a Harley of similar models the quality of the Harley stands out by far.
I totally agree. I rode other bikes and yeah they're nice, but there's something about Harley's that feels way more solid. (Except the 2022 sportster 975. It feels cheaply built)
Folks like to complain about Harley but a lot of them are the guys that either don't take care of their bikes, or try to modify them so much to the point of it not running right.
Thanks for posting I guess here is a simple one if you are Long way from home many many miles from nowhere which one would you want easy answer
Need to look at the bikes in 10 years and see how they look after 75k miles. I have a 2011 Electraglide with almost 70k miles. Chrome is still perfect and paint is too with the exceptions of a few stone chips. I have seen 10 year old Indians with rusty chrome. I have no experience with the BMW's so I cannot say anything good or bad about them. I have had no mechanical or electrical issues. Longest trip was a trip to Sturgis and around the Eastern US. Total miles was 7500.
10 year old Indians? No such thing as of today, unless you're talking about a '53 or earlier. Polaris debuted the new Thunderstroke Indian in 2014.
The hd advertising money oozes through this vid. And I own a Hd..
Bloody oath haha
We are completely ad free on Cycle World, so that worn out gabage comment is void.
@Justin Dawes doesn't feel like it this whole video felt like a HD hype video from the beginning sorry HD is the 3rd option in all categories and the Indian in the video looks like the base model
@@onixgod1000 feel and fact are two different things.
Can I just say thank you. I've seen a few HD's and R18's in the wild but Indian haven't really got a foothold in the UK yet. That said I've been looking at their bikes, they look great in pictures. This is the first review to show the Polaris group stuff that's carried across. I now realise there's a reason they're a little cheaper than the competition and that's because they're just not as special. The Beemer and HD are bespoke machines. As a UK/Euro rider I'd probably have the R18 Classic, partly due to dealer network, partly due to quality but mostly due to style. The big baggers are a little too big for our roads. Oh and I've also ridden 1100 and 1250 boxers so I already love those engines. Personally I'd have likes to see a telelever on the BMW though. It just seems right for a boxer.
I have a 21 SGS , I LOVE it.
These guys need some attention😢
I have a '21 Chieftain. I agree on fit and finish. Especially the paint, or paint options. But it mops the floor with the competition on power, tech, suspension and overall performance.
Edit: the Harley SGS is the sexiest bike ever made IMO😁
I have the 21 SGS, 30k out the door and I’m in process of adding legend air along with yaffe stretched tank, sorrento seat, monkey bar 12” bars and upgraded lightings. Oh and electric center stand. I’ve already changed out headers and slip Ons. I love it but have had to spend 40k plus to get it really custom.
A 21 chieftain makes the same power as a 21 sg so not sure about mopping the floor on power.
@@guins99 Sorry to hear that.
Agree 10000%
If you are actually going to go out and tour.....dealer network and support are HUGE, and even that is an understatement. H/D Dealers are everywhere. If nothing else that should be the main deciding factor if you are going to go out and really put miles down. The only thing H/D is missing is water cooling. In HOT conditions, especially at slower speeds, the engines just get too darn hot. BUT, it is still they way to go. Being on an H/D is just "right".
Paid promotion with Harley Davidson!
Dam straight bro.
How about a review of the Honda Rebel 1100 with all the OEM touring accessories (Batwing and bags)?
Thanks for the info guys but riding a bike is a really personal thing. But anyway still a nice video 👍🏽
You are right ... Harley is the best.
Next review.
S
Yes everybody listen to the reviewers Indian sucks Harley rides better and it has a mysterious soul to it and it is a great bike for really tall guys and it is better in everyway smoother and less vibration keep buying them and do not even test drive a Indian listen to reviewers who prefer Harley they are always right. Do not buy Indians.
@@chonasimpson6487 I have never heard that in any legitimate reviewer's video. Most say that the ride is similar and some say Indian is better. Quality is usually won by Harley. Yeah the soul thing is a Harley plus and vibration is about equal. I almost bought a Scout when they first came out but there were better bikes out there. I really like the FTR and I wish I had a place for it in my life and in my garage.
Just relax.
S
I thank you for your review. I bought a 2022 Harley-Davidson SGS. This review tells me I did good. This is my second SGS. Pricey, yes! But you get what you pay for.
Try a Indian and you will realize you could have done better.
@@chonasimpson6487 I did try an Indian. They could not come close to my deal. Plus I would not have been able to use all my accessories I moved over. No Indians for me!
Harley is Harley. Indian is Polaris. Wont be around long.
@@jeffm8882 - I think Indian Motorcycle is in a perfect place. Polaris has been around since1954 making high-quality, breakthrough products and broadening the view of Powersports. The future looks bright.
@@jeffm8882 yeah ok
Be aware! At least my dealership here in East Texas is bumping prices above MSRP by $10,000 and still adding exorbitant Dealer Prep and Freight. For example, 2022 Road Glide CVO IS $54,995 plus all that they want. I think I have purchased my last HD. And selection will be limited all year. It's been nice Harley; see you. BTW, the bike in yellow/black is beautiful.
Don't forget that H.D. is now adding on an additional $1,000 for "market adjustment" (supply chain) costs. On top of Doubling freight & prep.
Great review! I think what does it for Harley is the incredible feel that you take when riding it; it’s hard to describe but there is a connection between man and machine that brings joy to the ride. The BMW is a great looking bike, plus I like the technology on it.
I rode it but It was that indescribable feeling that made me fall for the Harley’s .
I liked Harleys untill i rode a Indian Roadmaster and now their is no going back for me .Its like driving a civic then driving a lincoln the ride is so much better on the Indian and for people over 5 ft 7 is more comfortable.
I rode my brothers indian. Im sticking with my SG
@chona Simpson thats strange , the general consensus is the HD is the better handling bike
nice vid. Good compairison. I like all three bikes so to see them head to head is great.
Good format for this comparison. Great job guys
Great review. I have a ‘21 Street Glide Special and if no one else mentioned it, I just wanted to point out when you discussed pricing it may not have been clear that the RDRS does not come standard, so my dealership had to find one that had it for me, whereas I *believe* the traction control and ride modes are standard on the Chieftain. Clearly that wasn’t enough to make me switch sides :)
Most dealerships already have it included and don’t even increase the price of the msrp.
@@gambino_21sgs79 ah good to know…that may be the case in some locations. My dealership in SoCal had a mix of bikes with/without RDRS and didn’t have a black on black version with it so they had to pull one from another location and it did affect the price. Anyway, just an observation that it’s technically a factory upgrade and not included with the base model price.
I have a 2021 Goldwing non touring with the DCT and I can ride for miles and miles and not feel like I got beat up like these bikes but hey to each his own ride what you like.
It's about time that someone did a review on these baggers!
If you are In the Market RIGHT NOW Is the Time to Pick Up an R18: Low Miles Pre-Owned there are some crazy low prices out there. I picked up the R18B From a Harley Dealer with 200 Miles for $10,499. STOLE IT!!!!!!!!!
I have never ridden a Harley but what you said about the suspension would knock it out of the running for me. Indian is a Polaris product so after I got so thoroughly screwed, when Polaris dropped support on my Victory, I would never buy a Polaris product again. That’s not just me because the workers at the motorcycle dealership that I frequent rate Polaris as the lowest in customer support.
The BMW I have some experience with and I would call it an adventure cruiser. It’s fine on the freeway and passes Semi-trucks with ease, but I don’t like freeways. I took the R-18 through two reservations, including the Navajo Nation, and the roads out there are terrible but you have them all to yourself. The stability of the R-18 was incredible while navigating through all of the deep road ruts and bumpy surfaces. I was airborne at one point and the bike landed smoothly. The bike is kind of analog but so is my 2000 r1100r BMW so I’m used to it and I don’t care. The styling harkens back to the original BMW cruiser so I don’t know how these guys could label its styling as random. The more I rode it, the more I loved the bike and the 2022 Classic gets comments on its looks everywhere I go. I have had four cruisers, one Kawasaki, two Victory and a Yamaha Star Warrior. Only the old 850 Kawasaki and the BMW R-18 didn’t give me backaches from riding them. One last observation. When in town and on the freeway, most bikes that you see are Harley. Get into the outback in the middle of Nevada and northern Arizona you will see mostly BMW motorcycles. BMW bikes all have adventure in mind. KTM has racing high performance in mind and Harley and Indian are for in town posers riding to the bar or for a couch like experience on the interstate. Also the braking capability is of number one consideration in safety and even these two cats agreed on BMW having the most refined brakes.
The three of them are magnificent motorcycles, I have always been a Harley Davidson fan but since The German Company created this Amazing, powerful and impressive monster I became a loyal fan of the Awesome BMW R18 B which no doubt at all has become my favorite Motorcycle, because of it's massive, impressive, imponent and majestic boxer Engine which impress me a lot at first sight with those two massive and impressive Cylinders that outstand spectacularily at both sides of the huge and impressive boxer Engine, besides it's Beauty it's outstanding, great sound, powerful, majestic, very high Quality elememts all around, technology, in fact I m in love with this Spectacular German wild Beast!!!, So no doubt at all my favorite Motorcycle it's The absolutely Amazing BMW R18 B!!!, Very good explanation and video as well, so Thank You guys for sharing!!!, Greetings from Cuba!!!
Those jugs are so big and so exposed I'd be constantly afraid of dropping the bike and ruining them.
Excellent review! The video production is superb as well. It's gotta suck having to do all of that work at the PCH:)
Thank you. A lot of work goes into making these videos for a one man crew.
I think bimmer should start selling those engine casings as tables or something. I mean I don't want the bike, but man that's pretty engine.
great vid guys. IMO the Indian bikes have come along ways in the last few yrs. But Ill be sticking with Harley. The way I look at it is this. Say the I liked a certain bike model of the Indian and Harley exactly the same amount. (And theyre both good now). I would still certainly go with the Harley. Just because of the better customer support network the Harley brand provides. The amount of dealers and shops custom part manufacturing etc. that support Harley Davison is unparalleled. Is Indian catching up in this regard? yes. But...they syill have a long way to go.
Very good vid, notably when going through the comfort items etc (floorboards on the Beemer, 'locked-in' seating on the Indian etc). Thanks.
Bought a TC after owning an R18 classic. TC Just a far superior motorcycle.
Awesome
Fit and finish: Triumph Rocket 3.
Engine power: Triumph Rocket 3. By far.
Handling, brakes, suspension: Triumph Rocket 3. By far.
Feel: Nothing compares to the Triumph Rocket 3.
Weight: Of course the Rocket.
Touring comfort: The Rocket GT is the most comfortable I have ridden.
Infotainment: Eh, not a biggie to me.
ABS: the Rocket has it all.
Modes: The Rocket shines.
So is it a bagger?
Let me guess, you own a rocket, tool😂
@@trucker-d4161 nope, rode both GT and R, decided to keep my XDiavel S and Street Glide S
I think you forgot to mention Reverse Gear that Harley is missing.
My 22 Road Glide Limited has the same flutter when braking that you guys are talking about, from day one I thought the rotors came from the factory warped or something.
Why 😂 you have to replace the cam's in the HD after 25000 to 35000 mi on the HD let alone others parts.
Guys, GREAT reviews, keep up the great work
Indian Challenger outdoes them all in every aspect but fit and finish and that belongs to HD. There’s nothing on the road to compare to my Challenger, period! I guess you could buy a 131 and just be able to keep up after spending another 10k to keep pace with a stock Challenger!
Unless one gets a K1600B.