I think all I can say really is... read the novels. It would be crazy to run a dragonlance campaign without the DM and the players knowing the 2000 or so pages necessary to undersytand the world they are playing in (bit like trying to play and capture the tone of Middle Earth without having first read the books or seen the PJ trilogy of movies). Great review, but to play the Shadow of the Dragon Queen well, really does benefit from knowing the material it comes from. It CAN be played without doing this, but you`d be fishing in the dark without a rod I feel.
This will probably my last new DnD book I'll buy, only because Dragonlance always interestd me. I'm getting more into OSR and other ttrrpg systems, I have no more time or money for DnD haha.
It was going to be my last, but now I’m not interested in running it. Moving the group over to Pathfinder. I do love OSR, but my friends not so much. Lol.
The last D&d book I bought was the Saltmarsh one. I had high hopes about it being a fan of the original modules and the Dmg2 version from back in the 3.5 era. What I got was adventures hastily pasted together, a weeeee bit of pretty lame background, and a lack of maritime adventures as was promised. Last time I gave my money to wotc, and this will remain so
OMG. Right? Both myself and my players were disappointed in that book. Why even have all of these ship rules if the majority of the adventure takes place on land, in a marsh, or underwater? The story even give the players the Sea Ghost... which they barely use.
@@carrotsongRPG its such a shame. The implied setting of the U modules is great, the region around Saltmarsh, if using Greyhawk, is fantastic, and its a perfect springboard for maritime and pirate adventures. Ah well... Nothing you cannot manage yourself, but still
What we needed was a Krynn: Dragonlance setting and then later a few adventures. Would still like a Forgotten Realms campaign setting. WotC focuses to much on the Sword Coast and ignores the east. I am glad they have not touched Grayhawk, 5e would not fit in well with that setting.
I would not blame the rails on the system (5e). Imho the problem is the overall way that this adventure has been designed. The “you must do “A”, then must meet npc “B” so you need do “C”…” is just bad design imho. Let the players think, let them at least have the impression that they are choosing their path and have options for the general flow. It is not for me to DM this. Heck, I would also not even enjoy it as a player, because I would get mad each time that one NPC point the expected direction (hint: at almost every step even on obvious places). But I can see groups where this could be fun, I just need to create the history WITH the players, so something more “sandbox” is more in line with my tastes (CoS is a fine example)
You certainly have the OSR mindset, which pretty much goes against the 5E style of play. I actually never blamed the adventure being on rails on the system though; I pointed out nearly all 5E adventures ARE on rails. Many other systems' adventures are also railroads too.
@@Thegaminggang Thanks for the reply 🙂 I really fail to see what “5e style of play”, you mean people newer to tabletop rpgs ? And yeah, almost all new adventures are on rails… Well I almost never bought adventures, always prefered campaign settings (acessories on AD&D if i remember correcltly). Plenty of inspiration for several adventures. But nowdays (since CoS) I started to try “ready to play” adventures…. Tbh I rework everything so much that probably is better to stick with homebrewing from start. Thanks for your videos and insights, and sorry that english is not my main language (I learned translating D&D and then AD&D books as in my time this was the only option ☺️)
I consider the "5E style of play" is an adventure that's essentially going to play out a certain way no matter what the players do. I'm certainly not a fan but it's what I've come to expect from WotC. ~ Jeff
@@Thegaminggang 2 things: 1) dragonlance(as far as my ancient brain remembers) sort-a-started this rails thing, and 2) I see the 5e rails thing as cultural manifestation rather than a mechanical one :)
Absolutely Amazing & Outstanding & Extremely Detailed & Well Though out Review. This is the best Review of a Dungeons & Dragons Book Period. Thx you so much 4 your honesty. Bravo to you Sir....👽👽👻😉
I appreciate your suggestions on this, Jeff. Especially about the tie-in board game.... I had some reservations about how that might work out together.
Wikipedia Dragonlance and click a load of internal links: it'll give you the plots, characters, War of the Lance etc… Plenty of stuff without any investment required, 'cause there's so much to take in and pick through when you're new to the setting. Agreed, though, WotC should have done the bulk of this legwork for a new readership in this book. It is their IP, but they don't seem even a tenth as confident and expert in their revisited presentations as any by Chaosium, Goodman with Old Adventures Reincarnated or Cubicle 7 with the WFRP line.
lol - looked back trying to remember if I'd commented (thus joined in the competition). Some regulars, but mostly people just in for the WotC giveaway. Looks like I might've been deleted for mentioning DTRPG and telling folks, before buying, to first go to the Gaming Gang (thing that's a 'w' made by spiders. Daren't say the word, I'll be deleted again). 😆😂
Nope. That's what the board game is supposed to be for. As I mentioned in the review, I think most players will have more fun without the board game. ~ Jeff
Read the 3 part DL Chronicle Series. It explains the time setting of the new source book. Im not a 5E fan myself but I love the DragonLance story. 2nd Edition was my last playable D&D series.
It is unfortunate that WotC does seem to lack a lot of attention to certain detail, but I imagine it leaves a lot of room to manipulate the way the story is played. Although, I agree it would be nice to have better background and foreground information.
I would say my top five WotC 5E adventures would be... 1. The Wild Beyond the Witchlight 2. Tomb of Annihilation 3. Curse of Strahd 4. Dungeon of the Mad Mage 5. Dragonlance ~ Jeff
The amount of Worldbuilding and Lore that Wizards puts into their 5e books is utterly pitiful. Paizo came out with a whole book just fluffing up their world with lore and I wish Wizards would go back to when they used to release books like 3.5's The Fiendish Codices. I don't want an adventure I want a sourcebook, I want lore, worldbuilding, I want all the tools to be able to make my own campaign yet Wizards has always been so lackluster preferring to make adventures rather than sourcebooks. They would rather let the DMs Guild make all the lore books and even getting them to flesh out rules for things like Spelljammer Ship Combat. I spent $80 for the Spelljammer Box set and their was fk all in terms of combat rules.
I'm pretty disappointed with this release. I had bought the deluxe version and everything. I probably won't open it and just sell it. The final nail in the coffin of modern WotC. See ya 5e.
@@Thegaminggang I've watched quite a bunch of reviews on it. The railroad, clif notes of a setting, and lack of real warfare rules is a disappointment. The board game could be cool, but like you also said, players may not want to switch contexts. My players were already concerned. I should have know, given that the last couple years of WotC releases have been sub par, but I tried to hold out hope for the beloved Dragonlance setting.
Thanks Jason! I was curious how you'd dipped into it. Personally, I think people who have far more experience and knowledge about Dragonlance than I did going in will probably experience some disappointment. ~ Jeff
I do hear you. I'm sticking with 5e The System, but leaving the WOTC releases alone. I suggest checking out the stellar 5e releases that Kobold Press has been putting out of late!! It's bloody nice just having new monster books and spells and such.
“Mages of High Society” made me laugh. Jane Austen’s Dragonlance.
I think all I can say really is... read the novels. It would be crazy to run a dragonlance campaign without the DM and the players knowing the 2000 or so pages necessary to undersytand the world they are playing in (bit like trying to play and capture the tone of Middle Earth without having first read the books or seen the PJ trilogy of movies). Great review, but to play the Shadow of the Dragon Queen well, really does benefit from knowing the material it comes from. It CAN be played without doing this, but you`d be fishing in the dark without a rod I feel.
This will probably my last new DnD book I'll buy, only because Dragonlance always interestd me. I'm getting more into OSR and other ttrrpg systems, I have no more time or money for DnD haha.
I can certainly understand your point of view! ~ Jeff
It was going to be my last, but now I’m not interested in running it. Moving the group over to Pathfinder. I do love OSR, but my friends not so much. Lol.
I'm actually launching a Paizo series in January. Shhhh! It's not common knowledge yet. ~ Jeff
@@Thegaminggang looking forward to it. I love your vids and value your opinion.
@@Thegaminggang oh that's awesome, I'm looking forward to it !
The last D&d book I bought was the Saltmarsh one. I had high hopes about it being a fan of the original modules and the Dmg2 version from back in the 3.5 era. What I got was adventures hastily pasted together, a weeeee bit of pretty lame background, and a lack of maritime adventures as was promised. Last time I gave my money to wotc, and this will remain so
OMG. Right?
Both myself and my players were disappointed in that book. Why even have all of these ship rules if the majority of the adventure takes place on land, in a marsh, or underwater? The story even give the players the Sea Ghost... which they barely use.
@@carrotsongRPG its such a shame. The implied setting of the U modules is great, the region around Saltmarsh, if using Greyhawk, is fantastic, and its a perfect springboard for maritime and pirate adventures. Ah well... Nothing you cannot manage yourself, but still
Jeff, thank you for the excellent review! I was really looking forward to hearing your thoughts about this one. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Congrats to the winners! I do have a soft-spot for Dragonlance, so I will surely have to get this one.
What we needed was a Krynn: Dragonlance setting and then later a few adventures. Would still like a Forgotten Realms campaign setting. WotC focuses to much on the Sword Coast and ignores the east. I am glad they have not touched Grayhawk, 5e would not fit in well with that setting.
I would not blame the rails on the system (5e). Imho the problem is the overall way that this adventure has been designed.
The “you must do “A”, then must meet npc “B” so you need do “C”…” is just bad design imho.
Let the players think, let them at least have the impression that they are choosing their path and have options for the general flow.
It is not for me to DM this. Heck, I would also not even enjoy it as a player, because I would get mad each time that one NPC point the expected direction (hint: at almost every step even on obvious places).
But I can see groups where this could be fun, I just need to create the history WITH the players, so something more “sandbox” is more in line with my tastes (CoS is a fine example)
You certainly have the OSR mindset, which pretty much goes against the 5E style of play. I actually never blamed the adventure being on rails on the system though; I pointed out nearly all 5E adventures ARE on rails. Many other systems' adventures are also railroads too.
@@Thegaminggang Thanks for the reply 🙂
I really fail to see what “5e style of play”, you mean people newer to tabletop rpgs ?
And yeah, almost all new adventures are on rails… Well I almost never bought adventures, always prefered campaign settings (acessories on AD&D if i remember correcltly). Plenty of inspiration for several adventures.
But nowdays (since CoS) I started to try “ready to play” adventures…. Tbh I rework everything so much that probably is better to stick with homebrewing from start.
Thanks for your videos and insights, and sorry that english is not my main language (I learned translating D&D and then AD&D books as in my time this was the only option ☺️)
I consider the "5E style of play" is an adventure that's essentially going to play out a certain way no matter what the players do. I'm certainly not a fan but it's what I've come to expect from WotC. ~ Jeff
@@Thegaminggang 2 things: 1) dragonlance(as far as my ancient brain remembers) sort-a-started this rails thing, and 2) I see the 5e rails thing as cultural manifestation rather than a mechanical one :)
Absolutely Amazing & Outstanding & Extremely Detailed & Well Though out Review. This is the best Review of a Dungeons & Dragons Book Period. Thx you so much 4 your honesty. Bravo to you Sir....👽👽👻😉
Thank you for your review.
I appreciate your suggestions on this, Jeff. Especially about the tie-in board game.... I had some reservations about how that might work out together.
Wikipedia Dragonlance and click a load of internal links: it'll give you the plots, characters, War of the Lance etc… Plenty of stuff without any investment required, 'cause there's so much to take in and pick through when you're new to the setting.
Agreed, though, WotC should have done the bulk of this legwork for a new readership in this book. It is their IP, but they don't seem even a tenth as confident and expert in their revisited presentations as any by Chaosium, Goodman with Old Adventures Reincarnated or Cubicle 7 with the WFRP line.
lol - looked back trying to remember if I'd commented (thus joined in the competition).
Some regulars, but mostly people just in for the WotC giveaway.
Looks like I might've been deleted for mentioning DTRPG and telling folks, before buying, to first go to the Gaming Gang (thing that's a 'w' made by spiders. Daren't say the word, I'll be deleted again).
😆😂
I thought this was supposed to have rules for mass combat...
Nope. That's what the board game is supposed to be for. As I mentioned in the review, I think most players will have more fun without the board game. ~ Jeff
I’m looking forward to playing Dragonlance 5e, but I’ll definitely be changing things up a bit, to make things less railroady.
Given how WoTC have treated the original authors i'm not sure this is a product the old fans of DL will get behind.
Read the 3 part DL Chronicle Series. It explains the time setting of the new source book. Im not a 5E fan myself but I love the DragonLance story. 2nd Edition was my last playable D&D series.
It is unfortunate that WotC does seem to lack a lot of attention to certain detail, but I imagine it leaves a lot of room to manipulate the way the story is played.
Although, I agree it would be nice to have better background and foreground information.
I'd love to win a book someday!
What are the Gaming Gang's top five/ten 5E adventures so far?
I would say my top five WotC 5E adventures would be...
1. The Wild Beyond the Witchlight
2. Tomb of Annihilation
3. Curse of Strahd
4. Dungeon of the Mad Mage
5. Dragonlance
~ Jeff
So this is (again) more an adventure module than an actual sourcebook or worldbook. This really is turning a sad direction D&D is moving toward....
Kender sounds like german "Kinder" = children.
It was chosen specifically for that reason.
The amount of Worldbuilding and Lore that Wizards puts into their 5e books is utterly pitiful. Paizo came out with a whole book just fluffing up their world with lore and I wish Wizards would go back to when they used to release books like 3.5's The Fiendish Codices. I don't want an adventure I want a sourcebook, I want lore, worldbuilding, I want all the tools to be able to make my own campaign yet Wizards has always been so lackluster preferring to make adventures rather than sourcebooks. They would rather let the DMs Guild make all the lore books and even getting them to flesh out rules for things like Spelljammer Ship Combat. I spent $80 for the Spelljammer Box set and their was fk all in terms of combat rules.
I'm pretty disappointed with this release. I had bought the deluxe version and everything. I probably won't open it and just sell it. The final nail in the coffin of modern WotC. See ya 5e.
I have to ask, how are you disappointed if you haven't opened the box? Just curious. ~ Jeff
@@Thegaminggang I've watched quite a bunch of reviews on it. The railroad, clif notes of a setting, and lack of real warfare rules is a disappointment. The board game could be cool, but like you also said, players may not want to switch contexts. My players were already concerned.
I should have know, given that the last couple years of WotC releases have been sub par, but I tried to hold out hope for the beloved Dragonlance setting.
@@Thegaminggang Oh, and I have the DndBeyond preview, so did read through about half of it.
Thanks Jason! I was curious how you'd dipped into it. Personally, I think people who have far more experience and knowledge about Dragonlance than I did going in will probably experience some disappointment. ~ Jeff
I do hear you.
I'm sticking with 5e The System, but leaving the WOTC releases alone.
I suggest checking out the stellar 5e releases that Kobold Press has been putting out of late!! It's bloody nice just having new monster books and spells and such.