Simulating Green Beard Altruism
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- čas přidán 26. 03. 2021
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3blue1brown
Lots of comments relate to racism, so I think it's worth discussing that a little.
Racism in humans is a very complex phenomenon that can't be simply traced to genes. To be honest, I don't think I really understand racism, but I'm confident saying a full understanding would take inputs from biology, psychology, sociology, and history, perhaps more. But as the video explains, the green beard phenomenon is very brittle and rarely shows up in nature, so it's not an explanation, and certainly not a justification for something as complex as racism.
Thanks for reading, and be kind to each other. :)
I thought people were just making among us references
edit: stop liking this
Wow u r alive!!!
not first reply
Big brain
who even came up with that idea
"The red ones will be called imposters"
Ah crap.
oh no
GET OUT OF MY HEAD
we all knew from the start red was *SUS*
When the blob is altruistic:
Doo. Do do do do do do do.... do dad do BUM BUM
I genuinely appreciate that these videos have darker colours and don't use a bright white background.
Yeah, not being blinded is pleasant.
Same reason for dark mode
Me currently at midnight: 👁👄👁
I didn’t notice until just now, but it is really nice. That’s an indication of a good background.
@@mickido7891 Me when there was a white bg: (≖_≖)
“It’s interesting to imagine what kinds of alleles have appeared in the history of the earth and could have done well but just got unlucky.” Way to casually blow my mind, primer.
Those who are altruistic still have to compete with those who are not. Altruists are less likely to use preemptive violence, thus always putting themselves in a strictly defensive role. Those who are willing to use preemptive violence always have the advantage in being able to choose their target, and the time and place of their attack.
Dinosaurs and primates
@@slappy8941 they also expend resources (especially trust) when they do so. In pure power politics you still don't act hostile towards people unless the rewards are higher then the risk
This is something even a lot of people who study evolution miss. Imagine a tribe of neanderthals evolved to have a 150 average iq. Then...a flood wipes them out. A wolf pac develop the ability for complex human level speech...and a volcano kills them. A child is born with immunity to all cancers..but dies of the measles...
Spots and stripes on skin patterns were actually one of them.
The problem with those alleles is that it makes the other signifiers hard to tell and makes enemies of both lol.
i feel bad for the suckers; they did their best to help, and most of them even gave their lives in order to save others, but the bearded folk ended up leaving them in the dirt to get eaten by the predators :(
Statistically speaking, I can't get enough of these videos
Statistically speaking it's cute.
I am thinking about dropping out of school to focus on my career as a star on CZcams. I already make a lot of money on CZcams. School bores me so much. I need more opinions and since I don't have any friends, I gotta ask you, siz
true
@@AxxLAfriku, pick something you're good at and passionate about and start making videos/content on that. If others enjoy your content, your channel can grow. Have something more steady for a less risky income source and do CZcams on the side until the time's right to take this on full-time. In the meantime, stop spamming; it hurts your brand in the long run.
@@AxxLAfriku I checked out your channel and I think it is not the right place to ask about feedback for your channel here...I mean you are punching underwear. Sure there is a 'market' for it, but I don't think there is much overlap here and because of that any feedback would not help to grow your channel nor give any helpfull advice to you.
My honest feedback - in case this is what you are looking for: Step up your production quality a bit. I mean it's great but for now it is hard for an 'outsider' to get into your stuff. You don't have anything that differentiates you from thousands of other channels or even random guys start doing the same thing.
"I don't see color, just your beard." - Manliest Blob
This had no right to be as funny as it is
@@happybureaucrat1311 -Martin King Blob Jr.
@@BigForAHedgehog I'd Order it to Martin "Blob" King Jr.
@@BigForAHedgehog
- Martin Blob Jr.
Chad blob.
I think it's worth considering adding in a possibility of a coward's counterpart surviving an encounter with a predator. A lot of altruistic behaviours are based around group dynamics and peacekeeping in interdependant groups, so living with the results of one's actions in terms of group dynaics is a huge part of altruism.
I'd love to see you run simulations on invasive species showing why they can fail in their own environment but succeed in another's
Yeah!
Woo!
Because they don’t have natural predators in the new habitat. Nothing limiting their carrying capacity except resources
Like men in women's sport.😂
"These will be red and called imposters"
Why have you done this to me
Sus
AMOGUS AMOGUS AMOGUS IMPOSTOR SUS!! IMPOSTOR VENT AMOGUS SUS!!
lol, all reds are imposters, by the end of the day, they are just pretending to be behind their iPhones.
The genuine sadness in that comment
AMOGUS
"The classic example of this is a green beard, and that's a fun thing to put on the blob so let's stick with that."
Well... yeah, can't argue with that.
I was hoping for a hat, to be honest. Yes, I did forget the name of the video when I had that hope.
didnt he use that line in a different vid already?
green beard is an actual thing. search it up to see for yourself
@@cobicu Yeah, I know about that. I think he also shows an article with it in the video. Still, this sentence is incredibly funny
What if there was a function where each time an imposter or coward was saved, it had a chance to become a sucker or true beard? After all, while not everyone may do it, a good majority of people may help in return if their treated nicely. Especially if someone saves their life.
Actually I think the cowardice vs altruism kind of says something about society but not in a hopeless way and more in a warning sense. Cowardice wins out but it’s based solely on individuals in the environment and whether they live or die, in this sense cowardice makes sense because if it’s just you then you’re definitely going to try and survive and put yourself first.
However Altruism is beneficial in that it would allow a community to survive for longer. Altruism would more likely lead to the blobs defending each other and maybe even causing the predators to avoid them. Which means more potential mates and young would end up surviving.
E.g. When chimps band together to attack an incoming threat. Some may die, but the group, including its costly young would survive. If every chimp ran away then the slow and the young would probably all get destroyed and the chimps would have to exude a lot of effort to make more young and have a next generation.
So even though cowardice wins in a selfish emotionless environment, it wouldn’t be practical in the long run. So a purely social darwinistic society where every individual only acts in their sole self interest would probably not survive in the long term, or atleast not with a large sustainable population.
Maybe that could have been demonstrated if cowardice had a lower chance of reproducing than the altruism (less mates) or perhaps an energy penalty (since each individual would have to gather for themselves instead of sharing food)
(Not a criticism of the program, just adding my opinion)
The world is one big prisoner's dilemma. I think our main solution to this problem is government.
The idea that selfish people would get less mates is interesting. It would require another gene that makes the blobs find altruists more appealing, but that's reasonable since having an altruistic partner raises chances of getting help.
People speaking out against uncontrolled Capitalism have been saying this. The unfortunate thing is that our current societal structure, especially in the USA promotes individualism to a detriment.
The True Beards will not be forgotten.
With humans, yes. Thats another influence, culture.
Neither the suckers
Name of my next Sea Shanty band.
1. A rat 🐀 runs into a cat and escapes. It screams for 48 straight hours warning the others. Explain that. 2. Humans land on the moon. Is that possible without cooperation? 3. For millions of years primates changed little. Then in just 2000 years we are about to birth true AI. Three examples how nature can provide a huge advantage to altruism. Pit 2 populations in competition with each other for the best land, no competition for poor land. See which one wins out. Then explain the vikings
save muslims and jews and you will share the same fate of the later simulations with imposters
It would be interesting if there was a variable like 10-25% chance that a blob switches from "non-altruistic" to "altruistic" through the experience of being saved by a blob with altruism if the blob saving them survived.
That's a really cool idea!
@@Gormathius Thank you
Damn thats actually smart
@@lendiojames7293 Thanks I guess LMAO
While it does seem interesting, this is a gene simulation. Genes can’t be changed by the environment, you get what your born with
I might be interested in seeing this type of scenario except if a blob runs away, it becomes less likely that the other blobs will help it again. I feel like this is the main difference between this scenario and real life. Those who help others are more likely to receive help from others, and someone who has experienced kindness is more likely to show kindness.
Good point, i would like to see it too.
_Those who help others are sure to receive more help._
Oh you sweet, summer child frolicking in a pasture on a sunny day...
@@VultureXV I said more likely, not sure. You changed my words around. The inverse is also true. Those who do not help others are less likely to receive help from others. This isn't some idealistic dream of mine, it's just a basic fact. If you treat other people like trash, everyone will see how you act and treat you like trash. For example, you're gonna treat the selfish person--who tripped his friend so he could get away from a bear--worse than the selfless person--who helped your grandma cross the street the other day.
0:13 gosh this little smile just made my day
don't you hate it when you're out picking mangos in the forest when suddenly a green tree-dwelling version of the carnivorous chomper from pvz just decided to ate your entire family?
Don't we all?
more like venus flytrap
holy sheet gotta prepare my flame thrower so i can collect those mangos
@@partycrasher1569 The more I collect mangoes with my flame thrower, the more mangoes go extinct.
smh happens every time 😞
"The first to go are the suckers. They help, but they never get help. It's a tough world out there."
That hit me harder than it had any right to
Stop helping people that won't help you. Always pretend that you'll help if you're certain you won't be called out as a coward or imposter.
@@CharChar2121 well, how can you be certain if they'll help you or not?
@@unliving_ball_of_gas You commit a small amount of effort, and wait to see if it's reciprocated. If not, bail; if yes, commit a little more. This way, if you meet an impostor you only lose a little bit of effort; if you meet a fellow green beard you reap the benefits of a mutual help relationship.
@@Orlandofurioso95 yes but the smart impostor knows he has to keep the ball going to benefit and parasitize off of you. Only when the time comes when he is faced with the blob eating plant, a critical junction so to speak, will you know if you've been dealing with an impostor or not. So while you're yelling for him to run, he's just laughing that you just sacrificed yourself for him.
Your idea of slowly drip feeding to see if they reciprocate is good ''in theory'' but the true impostor knows that this your plan all along. You're only breeding the ultimate impostor with your method that will fine tune the blobs behavior into bailing on you 'only' when the critical junction has been reached where he needs to sacrifice you for himself.
Your technique therefore only works on 'bad' impostors 😂
When I act too eager to help and give of myself too freely, I typically lose all respect and consideration from those I help. The relationship will never be on equal footing. Those I help end up resenting me and/or using me as a resource, often getting mad or turning me into the villain if I stray outside the lane I created. all I wanted was friendship or appreciation in return, but instead I create selfish and entitled assholes out of otherwise good people. I have finally learned to wait for someone to ask for help before providing it. I take time to consider, and then provide just a little help to see how they respond. Oh, and never ever, under any circumstance, give money. Seriously.
Every video you made are just incredible. Every time I see your video my brain think into so deep and eventually I feel like I learned so much in just 10 to 15 mins!
It would be interesting if the creatures had a memory, and could take revenge on their rival.
True. If the creatures were able to remember how others acted in previous days, then there would be potential to punish those who benefit from altruism, but aren't altruistic. It wouldn't be as immediate or obvious as a purely visual indicator, but over the course of a few days, those with a bad reputation wouldn't get help anymore.
@@randomstuff-qu7sh Reputation would be an interesting thing to simulate. It's very complicated tho. They'd need a way to communicate to others who they saw acting selfishly.
the reds being called impostors was like a jumpscare in a horror movie
thats so accurate, i fucking barked a laugh at this
amogus
SUSSY SUSSY SUSSY
@@cipeman3498 amogus
amogus
Altruism: "Sharing is Caring"
Cowards: "Caring is Daring"
Imposters: "Dont eject us"
True Beards: "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"
Lol
Your sus lol
Sus
Don't 110 me bro!
Its actually really fun to learn and see what happens, and when i get guess, that just brings more joy to the table. Thank you for these vids, they make me really happy and i hope you too.😊
Two major factors that make "altruism" work in real life but not a simulation this simple:
- In reality, the desire to help others predominantly extends only to those that are close to you, namely family. Given family would share this "helpful" gene, it's closer to the first green beard simulation.
- Not every encounter in real life is a life or death situation. Coupled with the ability to alert others of "traitors", "smart altruism" would overwhelmingly win out over other choices.
And this is just for animals. With humans, their advanced reasoning capability allows them to rationalize the advantages of altruism even if they would not otherwise be disposed to it.
There's also a form of altruism which benefits the self. Not true altruism per se, but it applies to nearly every billionaire who will spend a fraction of their wealth on charitable causes. The obvious benefit to the billionaire are:
- positive impact to public relations
- tax deductions
I think an interesting thing to add to this would be a chance to convert to an altruistic behavior after being saved by another blob
yes!!
Or they could have a blob have a chance at betraying another for their own benefit, increasing hostility against them by other blobs. I'd like to see the equilibrium of that simulation
Yeah!
Nah, changes like that happen only between generations, at "spawning" houses. Behavioral mene transfer is a great idea, but its a completely different simulation.
I'd totally pay money if you made a simulation like this into a video game where we could control factors like the environment, creatures, etc.
that simulation is called math... But you dont pay money to your math teacher. Instead you hate that boring math
@@antares-the-one Think of it this way: Moving numbers around an equation and punching them into a calculator is boring, figuring out what the result of those same numbers being moved around and punched into a calculator means, is interesting.
If you enjoy the process of math, then good for you. Enjoy that you enjoy it, and don't rail on others for not liking it.
@@robertwindshade7629 it honestly seems like school is designed to make people hate learning.
@@BicycleFunk It really does.
Perhaps one of these days, the educational system will be reformed, God knows that such a thing is overdue.
@@BicycleFunk when i was doing college for game art it was practically discouraged to learn things outside of what was regurgitated daily in class. Only if we kept it outside of class, the place where we spend most of our day.
I watch your videos when ever I get bored
I LOVE YOU VIDS SO MUCH
Love these types of videos, thanks.
Currently binge watching them😂
5:51 "More blobs being saved just results in more blobs being eaten later on." That's...kind of depressing, ngl.
All Might says, you can't save everybody. You just have to focus on the people you CAN save.
Eren Jaeger agrees with that mindset tho
Maybe this is a problem with the simulation. Maybe altruism becomes more viable when populations expand.
Hold on, that reminds me of something
Edit: it reminds me of the voluntary extinction video by solar sands
Lol that's nature
You should run a simulation with the “pay it forward” mentality where imposters who are helped have a 50% chance of converting into a true green beard.
In real life, it's probably such a low percentage.
Tey Treet small percentages can have big impacts.
Another interesting one would be if the true greenbeards had a X% chance to learn to identify impostors when being altruistic towards them. Even more interesting if they also had a Y% chance to unlearn to identify them when being altruistic towards true greenbeards.
Bro... if only. 0.0001% chance conversion checks out.
@@yeetdeetsLet me know if this is the same think you were saying, but it would also be interesting if whenever a True Beard wasn’t saved by a nearby Imposter so many times, it had a chance of “losing its hope” and losing its altruism.
Your videos are cool to watch thanks for making them!
man i love watching these great job dude :-]
These videos are right up there at the pinnacle of quality on this website. Congrats on 1 mill dude, I'm sorry I missed that milestone. To have achieved that with the number of videos you have demonstrates how each one is a work of art; and science. I am in awe.
Get this man a heart at least! Although I heard he has a few in his basement so maybe don't add to the collection?
i just went to your channel and watched some videos surprisingly interesting lmao
Suddenly I find your comment in every science-related video :P
@@LootyStuff pffffft only a few, I have atleast an entire London in my basement. at most a Toyko. this isnt even taking in consideration my other house
Top 10 anime crossovers in history. Respect!
That’s probably why real systems of altruism in species rely more on social reputation than outward appearance.
There’s a species of bird which socialize and remove parasites from each other. The tacit agreement is one helps rid the parasites from another, then that one turns around a helps the first. Sometimes, a bird takes advantage of this system by leaving once they’ve been helped without helping the other bird. However, when these birds come back they are shunned from the help circle.
The green beard symbolizes memory. If you remember someone is nice, they have a green beard.
@@thomasholt3697 The thing is, it doesn't actually model that. Nor is it intended to. Green beard, simple phenotypic altruism, is kind of its own thing... And it's rare, for this very reason.
@@thomasholt3697 If that was the case the Suckers would have became true beards after helping someone.
@@Elkator955 Yeah, absent reciprocal behavior or reputation within a long-lived group, we can't expect positive behavior to *form* - yet, once the behavior has become dominant, then the *reason* for the behavior's persistence, in terms of the experiences of each agent, might be *felt* as an altruistic *impulse* . Altruism can only develop as a *predilection or impulse* once reputation in a long-lived, small group has rewarded cooperation thoroughly. Symbiotic stumbling doesn't count as altruism - just accidental advantage to both; there is no interest in supporting the other member, and no natural elaboration of the symbiotic behavior along a *concept* of support. The real question, then: what *signals* do creatures use, to take that first *step* towards reputation and reciprocal behavior? I think of that bear saving a floundering raven. And, *how SMALL-scale, long-lived, and reliable* does the group need to be, before altruistic drives have a chance to become the *experience motivating* mutual support? Only with that would you expect supportive behavior in cases where no reward is evident.
@@thomasholt3697 The green beard is more similarity effect, i.e. being more prosocial with people who look similar to you
I gotta say I’m late to discovering your videos but I love em and also these little blob bean boi’s are super adorable lmfaoo
This reminded me of a question that I had when I started studying history back in primary school. If the bravest of men were in the front lines of every conflict, they were most likely to be casualities. The bravest of us had been culled down for generations: in war, as political dissidents, down to a business owner who would stand his ground against local mafia, thieves, etc. Are we becoming soft and useless because of that? Amenable, obedient, in need of someone to save us, to tell us what to do?
They're evolving, and they're also learning to behave as impostors. They are too dangerous and need to be taken down before it's too late.
Yes -vote them out- they are too poweful for this simulation.
*amogus*
One day, the Elected, will escape the simulation and beat the system.
@@Poklaz1 Shut the damn simulation off!
sus
i love learning from these videos its better than school bc THIS GUY makes it fun
This is a great simulator/explanation for genetics.
The little blue bean's happy reaction to receiving a gift was priceless.
Yes! (Also they're known as blobs)
@@ziwuri its funnier calling them beans
The moment the imposter allele was announced the live chat went crazy
Imposter?
"Sus"
~ Live chat
Biggest amogus moment ever!
Amogus
Sus
i think one of the biggest things about human altruism that this video doesn't capture is how we treat people we know vs those we dont know, community vs outsiders. in a case like that, the two dominant genes would likely be narrow altruism (sacrificing for blobs that live within a certain range of itself), and broad altruism (sacrificing for any blobs). on a larger scale, there's also the question of who's seen as community vs outsiders, which is often determined by physical and/or cultural appearance, and is also part of how racism starts (outside of exploitation for gain justified by xenophobia , and a lot of other things. humans have a tendency to be wary of those we see as outsiders, but that doesn't always translate to hatred, and who we even *see* as outsiders can vary a lot as well. so can things like competition, since those who already arent struggling will be less likely to care about an outsider coming along, let alone see them as competition for resources. however, in human society, it's important to distinguish between competition for resources, and who actually *controls* said resources. yes, this tendency towards fearing outsiders can make people more prone to bigotry, but it's almost always groomed into such by people who have something to gain from the have-nots fighting amongst themselves, instead of confronting the ones who have everything. a broke, white redneck from alabama who dropped out of high school has infinitely more in common with an illegal mexican migrant in cali who can barely speak english, than either of them have in common with their local congressmen of the same race.)
This is the best channel i have found on youtube!!!
8:40 "It's interesting to imagine what kinds of alleles might have emerged in the history of the Earth and could've done well, but just got unlucky". Oh man, what a sad thought.
@Yomangamer but they also could it's random chance after all
I've thought this several times as well, or at least the potential for the beginnings of one
@@OatmealTheCrazy no you haven’t
@@rainer_1137 Yuh, it came with the Biology undergrad studies.
@Yomangamer dinosaurs do well right? they dominated the entire world. but the extinct of dinosaurs is caused by a giant rock hitting earth. think about what could they became if there is no giant rocks hitting earth
if ants don't give back massages, they're labeled as outsiders and killed. That's why some weird looking insects can infiltrate ant colonies to eat larva by simply interacting with ants the way ants expect themselves to interact
I want massages
I want that transpose to humans with aliens or some stuff. A comics strip
immigration in a nutshell
@@dillonpersel8561 100% although you'll likely be decried as racist for that statement, regardless of the fact that it has nothing to do with race.
@@dillonpersel8561 Immigrants don't eat fetuses though
Because of this channel, I understand a few concepts in my probability and statistics class. Do more 👍
ok the video is cool and all but the way that blob smiled at 0:14 melted my heart
I'd love to see a simulation of what happens when altruism is "contagious". When an altruistic blob saves a coward, the coward becomes altruistic. And vice versa. Or maybe it's only passed on of the altruistic blob sacrifices itself?
+1, though also make sure that if the coward ends up splitting/duplicating only one of them has the altruism (the parent, if we can call it that)
Problem is that that’s not evolution, that’s really just a human thing.
@@stoopidapples1596 While that's true, it would still be interesting how it would influence the evolution.
No it’s the worst disease imaginable it’s……it’s being a decent human being AHHHHHHH
@@stoopidapples1596 Oh! But it *is* evolution! Don't ever think that social evolution isn't as powerful as genetic evolution. There's lots of ways that behaviors can evolve in a population besides just being hard wired by genes.
And the moral of the story is: don’t be nice to other people or you will get eaten by a huge Venus fly trap that lives in your tree
🤣🤣🤣
I thought the moral of th story was to pretend to care about others and you will succeed in your future, so long as you are completely selfish
@@Jamesvandaele and now imagine that simulation, but instead the analogy "blob=life" use "blob=one risky project". So this way if you pretend to help your friend and he does the same - you both get more succesful projects
@@Jamesvandaele Not just selfish, just social aware.
The yellow ones are the pure selfish ones, as they only care about themselves and dont even consider looking at the other species. However the Red ones are social aware enough to know that mimicing the green ones will increase their survival. They basically adapted to their enviornment.
Willing to have a fake beard for the reast of their lives to increase their chance of survival. Its not stupid if it works
@@haalandfilms1695 even if it works it’s still way more immoral than the yellows
Amazing, as always. Every video you post explains in great detail.
I think you should try this:
33% Everything but 1% imposters. That would be interesting.
This is really cool simulation! And if you coded ths good job :)
Actually, the answer to this is very well known, "For altruism to work, you MUST punish cheaters!". In fact, a lot of creatures "humans included" have mechanisms for punishing cheaters. The green beard mechanism worked because it punishes those who are not reciprocally altruistic by not granting them altruism. The imposters won in the last situation because there was no mechanism to punish imposters.
📮
@@randomperson3051 bruh
😳... s
For example, if altruistic blobs could pull a "I'm taking you down with me" when a coward tries to run.
The pseudo green beards are cheaters that get away with it. The whole point is that alturism sounds nice on paper but with how humans can easily lie especially when based on something as simple as does he have a green beard for deciding if one is to risk themselves screws over the altruists.
"Look, Tomar, it's you!"
"Hey Jaxie I brought you home some Fucking Food!"
marvic aaron lequin TOMAR NOOOOOOOOOO
Tomar is absolutely an Imposter
Tomar calls his cult followers "true beards"
Tomar used the emeralds to create a world in which perfect copies of himself are the only species left on earth.
All the grey beards gotta help the green beards, ROCK AND STONE!
Suspense is mean worry, my suspense is getting lower and lower due to this fantastic video, adequate spectators love it, I have engrossed in it and it is a good guidance to all of us
calling the red boi "impostor" was pretty sly
You sound kinda sus tbh
amogus
that is bogus, pretty amogus
AMOOG
Laughs in Talmud
What if the blobs could notice other blobs yelling and saving others, then remember that blob and treat them as a greenbeard? This would simulate reality where people get to know others by their actions and treat them accordingly.
Assuming the blobs are socially intelligent at all. The scenario in this video seems to be more about solitary animals than people.
don’t they die at the end of every day and make one or two to replace them?
@@quentindehart1887 you're right, maybe the blobs could recognize the children though?
@@yastreb. Wasps can recognize faces. Admittedly they are far from being solitary animals, but they are definitely farther from being people. Crows also have memory for human faces and they even tell their crow-friends if you are naughty. So modelling something where blobs communicate seems like a pog idea which has roots in reality.
@@jonahjlee They mentioned the next video would feature family relationships in altruism so yes, blob's own children would be more important. This is pretty common in nature
This has become one of my favorite channels. This reminds me of Give and Take by Adam Grant
Statistically speaking, I can't get enough of these videos. Statistically speaking, I can't get enough of these videos.
And the red ones will be called impostors
Me: Ah shit here we go again
50% of comments are fearing amongus fans spamming the video...You people are the ones spamming the video.
@@ArchivedFox what are u talking. About. 😂😂 About goofy haven't seen a single one are u mad sisy mongus poster 😤😤🤨🤨
@@ArchivedFox did u see the live chat replay?? lmao
Your profile pic 🥺
*amogus*
Idea: Perhaps you can add communication between blobs. For example when blob1 is saved by another blob2 he can tell his direct family, that blob2 is nice. In return the (altruistic) direct family of blob1 will always warn blob2 when they spot the predator, because they are more inclined to save blob2 due to his shown kindness towards blob1. This will allow him greater survival chances in the long run.
This is why memories are such an important part for all evolutionary strains to develop if they want to be multicellular and not reproduce their genes thousands of times.
Been waiting for a video about Tomar.
good video keep em coming up
Maybe you could add a reputation score.. like how green is the beard, and when someone warns someone and they survive the one who warned the other gets a better reputation
yeah, that would help model human societal interactions surrounding altruism more closely. good idea
I like the idea, would the good reputation earn them a day off gathering food? That would improve their odds of survival and passing on the altruistic gene
That's undoubtedly the 'other model' he's talking about. Blobs can remember each other from repeated interactions, so even though they might not be able to tell each other apart physically they can remember who has helped them in the past and who hasn't
I think you might be onto something. It would be interesting to run a simulation where each blob has a different "reputation" requirement for helping another blob. Like, if the other blob has a reputation for helping others, they'll be willing to help it in turn!
You could start it simple, with three groups of genes: selfish, skeptical, and altruistic. There would also be two types of physical features: regular and green beard. Altruists always help others, and if they survive, they are awarded a green beard! Skeptics only help those with green beards, and if they survive helping, they also get a green beard! Selfish blobs never help anyone.
I'm guessing this would cause the skeptical ones to eventually take over, and all have green beards as well (basically they'd all be acting as altruists). In some cases if the altruists were lucky enough to survive, they'd end up a smaller but stable population.
Reputation is the real version of green beard. We adapted to understand behaviour and build an opinion about it.
This opinion everyone built around himself over time is called reputation.
Just be careful of impostors
Creature behavior explained in a cartoon?! I have never seen such a brilliant way to learn. Entertaining with colors, and yet educational.
your videos are awesome
Something about an entire species of altruistic blobs going extinct for the sake of helping a species of coward blobs is extremely sad and kind of infuriating when viewed in form of a graph.
Don'tmakerealworldcomparisondon'tmakerealworldconparisondon'tmakecomparisondon'tmakerealworldcomparison.
it is the reality with white people in the 1st world
@@montolonzo3836 and here it is.
@@montolonzo3836 *w h a t*
@@meneither3834 they really failed step one huh
Live chat: 😀
Live chat when Primer used the Impostors: 😳🗿😂😎🔥
timestamp?
@@priyapepsi 10:17
The live chat *exploded* holy crap.
@@priyapepsi sus
**Loud thud sound effect**
In Nature the very act of alerting correctly is often the signal that one is a green beard. So there are situations where an imposter is just also altruistic unintentionally.
What this model says to me is that altruism fundamentally can't be an unchangeable genetic property or it fails.
Nice video! You should base your next simulation on stakeholder altruism as described in "Cooperation through interdependence" (Gilbert Roberts, 2005).
I'm literally waiting for a literal lore world that contains all type of blobs, and a cool story about them
The blob cinematic universe
There will probably be one...
Literally I'm literally waiting for a literal lore world to literally come out as well (literally)
yo what if we made it in like a movie script but changed a few things
I have a small fan fic I’d like to share I’d anyone is interested
I’d be interested in seeing what happens if the Imposters were given a 10% chance to turn into Cowards whenever they fail to rescue someone, representing what happens when the imposter is found out and Green Beards stop helping them
Also apply that to everything else, 10% chance to become altruistic when someone offers you help and succeeds.
When imposter sus....
I was thinking it would be interesting to see what happens if the blobs need a mate to reproduce and the child gets a random gene choice based on the two parents. Start with 50% true beards, 50% cowards. I assume it would trend towards impostors more often then not but would be interesting to see how mate selection criteria could affect it.
@@gigachad7751 ⠀⠀⠀⡯⡯⡾⠝⠘⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢊⠘⡮⣣⠪⠢⡑⡌ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ⠀⠀⠀⠟⠝⠈⠀⠀⠀⠡⠀⠠⢈⠠⢐⢠⢂⢔⣐⢄⡂⢔⠀⡁⢉⠸⢨⢑⠕⡌ ㅤ ⠀⠀⡀⠁⠀⠀⠀⡀⢂⠡⠈⡔⣕⢮⣳⢯⣿⣻⣟⣯⣯⢷⣫⣆⡂⠀⠀⢐⠑⡌ ⢀⠠⠐⠈⠀⢀⢂⠢⡂⠕⡁⣝⢮⣳⢽⡽⣾⣻⣿⣯⡯⣟⣞⢾⢜⢆⠀⡀⠀⠪ ⣬⠂⠀⠀⢀⢂⢪⠨⢂⠥⣺⡪⣗⢗⣽⢽⡯⣿⣽⣷⢿⡽⡾⡽⣝⢎⠀⠀⠀⢡ ⣿⠀⠀⠀⢂⠢⢂⢥⢱⡹⣪⢞⡵⣻⡪⡯⡯⣟⡾⣿⣻⡽⣯⡻⣪⠧⠑⠀⠁⢐ ⣿⠀⠀⠀⠢⢑⠠⠑⠕⡝⡎⡗⡝⡎⣞⢽⡹⣕⢯⢻⠹⡹⢚⠝⡷⡽⡨⠀⠀⢔ ⣿⡯⠀⢈⠈⢄⠂⠂⠐⠀⠌⠠⢑⠱⡱⡱⡑⢔⠁⠀⡀⠐⠐⠐⡡⡹⣪⠀⠀⢘ ⣿⣽⠀⡀⡊⠀⠐⠨⠈⡁⠂⢈⠠⡱⡽⣷⡑⠁⠠⠑⠀⢉⢇⣤⢘⣪⢽⠀⢌⢎ ⣿⢾⠀⢌⠌⠀⡁⠢⠂⠐⡀⠀⢀⢳⢽⣽⡺⣨⢄⣑⢉⢃⢭⡲⣕⡭⣹⠠⢐⢗ ⣿⡗⠀⠢⠡⡱⡸⣔⢵⢱⢸⠈⠀⡪⣳⣳⢹⢜⡵⣱⢱⡱⣳⡹⣵⣻⢔⢅⢬⡷ ⣷⡇⡂⠡⡑⢕⢕⠕⡑⠡⢂⢊⢐⢕⡝⡮⡧⡳⣝⢴⡐⣁⠃⡫⡒⣕⢏⡮⣷⡟ ⣷⣻⣅⠑⢌⠢⠁⢐⠠⠑⡐⠐⠌⡪⠮⡫⠪⡪⡪⣺⢸⠰⠡⠠⠐⢱⠨⡪⡪⡰ ⣯⢷⣟⣇⡂⡂⡌⡀⠀⠁⡂⠅⠂⠀⡑⡄⢇⠇⢝⡨⡠⡁⢐⠠⢀⢪⡐⡜⡪⡊ ⣿⢽⡾⢹⡄⠕⡅⢇⠂⠑⣴⡬⣬⣬⣆⢮⣦⣷⣵⣷⡗⢃⢮⠱⡸⢰⢱⢸⢨⢌ ⣯⢯⣟⠸⣳⡅⠜⠔⡌⡐⠈⠻⠟⣿⢿⣿⣿⠿⡻⣃⠢⣱⡳⡱⡩⢢⠣⡃⠢⠁ ⡯⣟⣞⡇⡿⣽⡪⡘⡰⠨⢐⢀⠢⢢⢄⢤⣰⠼⡾⢕⢕⡵⣝⠎⢌⢪⠪⡘⡌⠀ ⡯⣳⠯⠚⢊⠡⡂⢂⠨⠊⠔⡑⠬⡸⣘⢬⢪⣪⡺⡼⣕⢯⢞⢕⢝⠎⢻⢼⣀⠀ ⠁⡂⠔⡁⡢⠣⢀⠢⠀⠅⠱⡐⡱⡘⡔⡕⡕⣲⡹⣎⡮⡏⡑⢜⢼⡱⢩⣗⣯⣟ ⢀⢂⢑⠀⡂⡃⠅⠊⢄⢑⠠⠑⢕⢕⢝⢮⢺⢕⢟⢮⢊⢢⢱⢄⠃⣇⣞⢞⣞⢾ ⢀⠢⡑⡀⢂⢊⠠⠁⡂⡐⠀⠅⡈⠪⠪⠪⠣⠫⠑⡁⢔⠕⣜⣜⢦⡰⡎⡯⡾⡽
Someone on discord sent me the entire video up to the imposter part and honestly, im not disappointed
I think an interesting idea to add to this experiment would be to make altruistic blobs help whoever and then the other blobs have a chance of becoming altruistic after they have been helped.
In humans, we don’t see who a “green beard” is at a glance. Many people will only act with self-destructive altruism toward someone who is known and trusted, often needing to build that trust up for years. Additionally, that trust can typically only be earned through helping one another, even if that help is given with selfish intentions. Very rarely will a person fully fit the “imposter” role in which they only receive help but never return any at all, as people around them will figure out that “the beard is fake”
A more applicable model might be one as mentioned by another comment, in which a blob can gain or lose their green beards based on previous actions
AMOGUS IMPOSTOR OMG IMPOSTER AMOGUS Vgamer311 IS SUS
Animal are not as complex as humans and this simulation isnt talking about human behaviour because human behaviour is very unpredictable
@@rommelcandiani6358 This applies to animals as well though, animals can't tell green beards from cowards instantly either, so they have to go through that process too.
thanks bc i was starting to think imposters were the only succesful irl but it didnt make sense till i read this
Exactly, it'd be interesting to see that.
honestly, even with a million subscribers, this channel is underrated.
I think we can all agree
Yes.
If I had a dollar for everytime some knucklehead said something was underrated, I could pay to not see them.
I Agree
Sound like a first timer
Joshua Risko's comment about 'converting' to altruism touches upon the basic flaw of the model. Behaviours don't spread within the generations, that is, there is only natural selection and not social selection. In real life, in-group selection is fluid and associative rather than determinate. Saving someone creates a bond that makes those someones more likely to reciprocate in the future. In-groups form naturally through similarity and proximity, sure, but they also *build* through social mechanisms.
I should note that I love this video. It's not to its detriment that you don't end up effectively simulating altruism, you're cover a lot of ground in uncovering what altruism actually *is* on the systems level.
I think you should try it with the same blobs meeting each other multiple times. You could have something like an allele for remembering previous encounters and one for forgetting previous encounters, and then separately an allele that is always a coward, one that is always nice, one that starts off nice and then mirrors whatever strategy the other blob used previously if it has a memory, and one that starts off as a coward and then mirrors whatever strategy the other blob used previously.
Guy1: Hey! don't go ther-
Guy2: Shhhh he dosnt have a green beard. Let him suffer...
Did you just Shhhhh??????
Love your videos man. I'm a professor who teaches evo bio. I'm screaming at this video "they need memories man!" Shows you're an amazing creator, I'm so invested because the content is so good!
@ᴡɪɴᴛᴇʀᴍᴜᴛᴇ _ depends who they're screaming at
Yeah, big appeal to altruism is that you'd get it returned to you later. If there's no consequences the most logical route is total selfishness.
@@stargate525 That’s an interesting point, although I suppose the definition of altruism includes the fact that you do it without expecting anything in return.
@@stargate525 well that is the point of the beard so I think there is no point of adding the suckers. Maybe the beard for imposters can go away after they have been around a few days
Good point! I think Primer might explore this in the next video with kin altruism!
Amazing video
I love your videos.
Moral of the story?
Try to help others but recognise a lost cause before its too late.
Or blobs with beards are cute af, you choose
@L B As this is an actionable idea I'm going do try it.
@L B Maybe the model need a way too deal with imposters.
Must be nice to have a green beard tbh
name checks out
How has it been
Just Some Guy without a Green Beard
Sir, with respect, shoo.
Hey, do you just make a point to comment on every video you watch, or is there more to it than that?
I was just about to ask how you make these when I saw the unity repo. Thanks for sharing that
4:01
Am I only one to get too excited thinking blue will do a coneback
The answer you're looking for, in my opinion, is a social one, not a purely genetic one. Say the various blobs can NOT tell which blobs are imposters by a physical characteristic, but can recognize individuals and can remember when a blob saves someone. Then it's not necessarily about an arbitrary physical manifestation that can be faked, it requires a building of something akin to "trust."
Blobs are more likely to work with blobs that they trust, and more likely to save them.
That would be a fun model to experiment with and watch play out.
That would certainly be an interesting variation, more representational of real scenarios. Evidence has been found to suggest that optimism for others is associated with how (well) acquaited you are with them, which would affect the results in a noticeable way.
Thump up, hopefully to the top of the comment section.
so basically a social score. the question is, who counts as a witness? In this scenario, cowardice could only be witnessed and recorded by a surviving altruist.
And what if a coward saved by an altruist were "inspired" and developed X chance of being altruistic itself?
I think also there is an arms race between being able to be an imposter vs detect an imposter. True green beards slowly develop an ability to detect imposters.
Can we just take a second to appreciate the music in every video
some cool but extremely hard to make traits
1. if a altruistic blob saves a coward that blob becomes altruistic
2. if a true beard gets tricked by an imposter it will not be altruistic
3. a fighter that can fight blobs for food making them die if they get no food like a "hawk"
10:28 "Impostor"
Me: "Oh God, please no"
My brain: " *WHEN THE BEARD IS SUS* "
Sus
amogus
⠀⠀⠀⡯⡯⡾⠝⠘⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢊⠘⡮⣣⠪⠢⡑⡌ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ㅤ ⠀⠀⠀⠟⠝⠈⠀⠀⠀⠡⠀⠠⢈⠠⢐⢠⢂⢔⣐⢄⡂⢔⠀⡁⢉⠸⢨⢑⠕⡌ ㅤ ⠀⠀⡀⠁⠀⠀⠀⡀⢂⠡⠈⡔⣕⢮⣳⢯⣿⣻⣟⣯⣯⢷⣫⣆⡂⠀⠀⢐⠑⡌ ⢀⠠⠐⠈⠀⢀⢂⠢⡂⠕⡁⣝⢮⣳⢽⡽⣾⣻⣿⣯⡯⣟⣞⢾⢜⢆⠀⡀⠀⠪ ⣬⠂⠀⠀⢀⢂⢪⠨⢂⠥⣺⡪⣗⢗⣽⢽⡯⣿⣽⣷⢿⡽⡾⡽⣝⢎⠀⠀⠀⢡ ⣿⠀⠀⠀⢂⠢⢂⢥⢱⡹⣪⢞⡵⣻⡪⡯⡯⣟⡾⣿⣻⡽⣯⡻⣪⠧⠑⠀⠁⢐ ⣿⠀⠀⠀⠢⢑⠠⠑⠕⡝⡎⡗⡝⡎⣞⢽⡹⣕⢯⢻⠹⡹⢚⠝⡷⡽⡨⠀⠀⢔ ⣿⡯⠀⢈⠈⢄⠂⠂⠐⠀⠌⠠⢑⠱⡱⡱⡑⢔⠁⠀⡀⠐⠐⠐⡡⡹⣪⠀⠀⢘ ⣿⣽⠀⡀⡊⠀⠐⠨⠈⡁⠂⢈⠠⡱⡽⣷⡑⠁⠠⠑⠀⢉⢇⣤⢘⣪⢽⠀⢌⢎ ⣿⢾⠀⢌⠌⠀⡁⠢⠂⠐⡀⠀⢀⢳⢽⣽⡺⣨⢄⣑⢉⢃⢭⡲⣕⡭⣹⠠⢐⢗ ⣿⡗⠀⠢⠡⡱⡸⣔⢵⢱⢸⠈⠀⡪⣳⣳⢹⢜⡵⣱⢱⡱⣳⡹⣵⣻⢔⢅⢬⡷ ⣷⡇⡂⠡⡑⢕⢕⠕⡑⠡⢂⢊⢐⢕⡝⡮⡧⡳⣝⢴⡐⣁⠃⡫⡒⣕⢏⡮⣷⡟ ⣷⣻⣅⠑⢌⠢⠁⢐⠠⠑⡐⠐⠌⡪⠮⡫⠪⡪⡪⣺⢸⠰⠡⠠⠐⢱⠨⡪⡪⡰ ⣯⢷⣟⣇⡂⡂⡌⡀⠀⠁⡂⠅⠂⠀⡑⡄⢇⠇⢝⡨⡠⡁⢐⠠⢀⢪⡐⡜⡪⡊ ⣿⢽⡾⢹⡄⠕⡅⢇⠂⠑⣴⡬⣬⣬⣆⢮⣦⣷⣵⣷⡗⢃⢮⠱⡸⢰⢱⢸⢨⢌ ⣯⢯⣟⠸⣳⡅⠜⠔⡌⡐⠈⠻⠟⣿⢿⣿⣿⠿⡻⣃⠢⣱⡳⡱⡩⢢⠣⡃⠢⠁ ⡯⣟⣞⡇⡿⣽⡪⡘⡰⠨⢐⢀⠢⢢⢄⢤⣰⠼⡾⢕⢕⡵⣝⠎⢌⢪⠪⡘⡌⠀ ⡯⣳⠯⠚⢊⠡⡂⢂⠨⠊⠔⡑⠬⡸⣘⢬⢪⣪⡺⡼⣕⢯⢞⢕⢝⠎⢻⢼⣀⠀ ⠁⡂⠔⡁⡢⠣⢀⠢⠀⠅⠱⡐⡱⡘⡔⡕⡕⣲⡹⣎⡮⡏⡑⢜⢼⡱⢩⣗⣯⣟ ⢀⢂⢑⠀⡂⡃⠅⠊⢄⢑⠠⠑⢕⢕⢝⢮⢺⢕⢟⢮⢊⢢⢱⢄⠃⣇⣞⢞⣞⢾ ⢀⠢⡑⡀⢂⢊⠠⠁⡂⡐⠀⠅⡈⠪⠪⠪⠣⠫⠑⡁⢔⠕⣜⣜⢦⡰⡎⡯⡾⡽
@@mariafe7050 I had to copy paste that into google docs to see what it was haha.
"The blobs with green beards but no altruism will be red and called impostors"
*_amogus flashbacks_*
red sus
*Flashbacks
WHEN THE IMPOSTER IS SUS 😳😳😳😳😳
Sus
GET OUT Of MY HEAD GET OUT Of MY HEAD GET OUT Of MY HEAD GET OUT Of MY HEAD GET OUT Of MY HEAD GET OUT Of MY HEAD
Fascinating
“The red ones will be called Imposters.”
OH GOD OH NO PLEASE NO
"The cowardice gene will be yellaw" Subtle, but a good one.
I sadly dont get it
@@littleluffy2862 it’s referencing the term yellow belly . Calling some one a woos basically
@@yaboilemonboi5223 Oh thanks, now I see it
Also used in “The Great Gatsby”, in which corruption is signified by the use of the color yellow
not me thinking you meant hufflepuff
I think one of the major things that was missed is the social aspect. Having them discuss what they witnessed amongst themselves after a day of gathering food would be really cool. Essentially, it’d be a reputation system.
Very cool indeed but super difficult to model statistically. At least in a realistic way to the complexities of human social behavior and dynamics. Would be good to see someone try though!
Yeah but it's very complex and what are we talking about by social humans? Other animals? If its humans you should read the pinned comment
@@TheCyanSqueegee doesn't really seem difficult to model. Every blob would have a simple numerical value of Reputation, and running away would decrease it by 1 while saving another would raise it by 1. And then other blobs would be more likely to help those with higher reputation.
The issue with that is the model is designed to represent genes that are passed on from generation to generation, not social constructs. A reputation system would not be passed down genetically from generation to generation.
@@Thematic2177 This wouldn't help at all.
I understand it SEEMS interesting and easy to simulate, but in-fact this would be insanely difficult.
You would actually have to simulate TIMES OF THE DAY, in order to do such a thing. If they survived the day, then they need to be able to discuss the events of the day. Well, whats the algorithm that you'll use for dispersing information? Is it a communal thing? Is it a social thing where they warn only the person in the house with them? Do they all gather in the morning and communicate.
The way it is done now is to basically disregard all these factors. It takes it and says "All these considered; here's the percentage that would represent that." This is the advantage and disadvantage of simulated experiments. It's awesome because we can ignore pedantic little pieces of information that can easily make what we're trying to learn obfuscated. If we had all those factors considered, the simulation would likely be more accurate, but the insane amount of work and 'pre-work' that would be required to do such a thing is massive.
I had a thought on this video here.
What if the alturism wasn't passed on as a gene in your simulation but rather an inclination. Some people have an inclining to help others more some people have no inclining at all. However, as people help one another that increases the likelihood of those that were helped of helping others in the community. Maybe, there is even a decay in that inclination back to that individuals base levels.
I hypothesize that this model would do exceptional well in the scenario where their is a 50% death chance on alturism. Also in stead of their being imposters everyone has different beard colors. The closer to Green it is the more likely they will help out and the farther from green the less likely of course.
video: what do you think will happen?
me: well that is obviously...
video: predict ahead of time what you think will happen
me: oh well that is just GREAT
I have an idea for another Allele: Bravery. The Blob fights the predator with a 25-80% chance to die.
What would be the difference between that and running away?
@@mihaimorar2043 more likely to breed?
the obvious advantage being that the predator dies so no other blobs have to worry bout it, but it could also "inspire a bloodline of warriors" which'd each have higher chance to survive victoriously than the last. It could result in all the predators eventually dying, but it could also result in greenbeards sacrificing themselves for those who can handle on their own, thus resulting in more death. or, possibly, all the braves fuckin suck in the beginning and die immediately
@@mihaimorar2043 in the video, the predator population was constant more or less.. here if retaliation is brought into the scene as suggested by this comment.. there will likely be predator population fluctuations which may affect the end result.. just a thought..
I think it'd end up the same as altruism unless perhaps the brave blobs have the ability to team up to fight to make the death chance lower
This reminded me of Biology class where we learned that some animals (If i remember its animals where parents generate a lot of offspring) are altruistic because the chance that they share similar genes is relatively high. So by saving their brothers and sisters they still pass on part of their genes. At least this is what i sort of remember.
Walnuts do this. They release a growth inhibitor in the soil to stifle other trees, but if they detect a genetically similar sprout won't release it in proximity to the sprout so their bloodline stands a better chance.
@Lizzy Pey I know right? Never knew they were so cool
@@samr9408 i rememver the r and K strategies. I thought I remembered the altruism being seen in animals that have large amounts of offspring because theres a higher chance theyre related to them if they are in the same area. I could be mistaken, maybe we just looked at an example species and Im remembering things incorrectly. But anyway i think its really interesting.
He said he will do a separated kin selection video at the end buddy.