Watts Hot Water Recirculating Pump Installation and Results with Gas Water Heater.
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- I finally installed a hot water recirculation pump on our house after 20 years. It took about 90 minutes and cost about $100. This video explains the operation of each component of the system, shows how I installed the pump on a gas heater, the temperature-sensing valve that allows the water to recirculate, the timer, and all the plumbing. Then, I used my infrared thermometer to test the results at the furthest faucets from the heater. I also show the external temperature of the pump itself and the effect of the hot water recirculation on the temperature of the cold water from the taps.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Your video is very straightforward. You have a talent for being clear and concise.
Nice Video! I've had the exact same unit installed on my Bradford White Water Heater since 2015 in my 2400 sq ft 2 story home and it still works fantastic. I did however forgo the use of the attached timer for the following setup: I plugged in the recirculating pumps power cord into a WiFi outlet switch then configured it to my home's WiFi Network and Amazon's Echo Dot's. Now anytime I need hot water I just tell any one of my 5 Echo Dots to turn on the Hot Water Pump and voila in about a minute I've got hot water to all my faucets.
Setting it up this way allows me to turn on\off the hot water pump at any given time. This allows the hot water pump to have a longer life span instead of having it run for several hours a day 7 day's a week.
That’s a bit complicated for a boomer…do they make one where I can push a button in my master bath and turns it on…
@@blt981So as a “boomer” I ask: the difference is voice command to a computer program, and the other is essentially a manual switch of the recirc pump?
Installed this very same pump 5 years ago, instead of using the valve under the sink i used a loop system on my water lines. works very well
Excellent video. We had someone install one of these years ago, and it never worked right. We turned it off because we were still having to wait for hot water. Thanks to you, I know how to check to see if it was installed correctly or if it was just defective. If it turns out it was defective, I feel like I can install a new one myself. Thank you!
Clear, concise, thanks!
I put one of these pumps on my water heater a couple of months ago. I then plugged it into a smart plug connected to Alexa. Each day before my wife and I take out showers, or if we need hot water at the kitchen sink, I tell Alexa to turn the pump on for 5 minutes. It runs 5 minutes then shuts off until our showers the next day. It works great, getting hot water in a few seconds instead of a full minute.
Our plumbing is branched so I have a valve at master bathroom sink, little bathroom sink, and kitchen sink. One thing in reading comments on recirculating pump videos is no one talks much about the hot water bleeding into the cold water side. When you run the pump, hot water flows through the valves at the sinks, then when it gets a certain temp, the valve closes and stops flow into the cold water line. But after you are done using hot water for a while and the hot water at the valves cools, the valve opens back up when the water is lukewarm. I can tell even when the pump hasn't run for hours, you can always turn on the cold water faucet and after 5-10 seconds, lukewarm water comes out. Now, I installed this in the wintertime so I'm not complaining about washing my hands in warm water, but when summer comes, not sure how I'll feel then. It's almost like there is slow circulation from the hot side to the cold side without a pump. I even have new heat trap valves and it still seems like it circulates. If this is true, I'm sure I use more gas. But I have been able to turn the temp down at the tank to save gas that way since there seems to be plenty of hot water.
Does anyone else notice the hot water "bleed" into their cold water side?
Yes they do make units that are stand alone and will sit inside the cabinet under your Master Bathroom Sink and attach directly to your sink's water line, these units do cost roughly twice the price though.
Great Video ! Love the full Port Valve ! Make sure you change that Anode Rod on that Whirlpool Water Heater!!
Good video! Very informative! Thanks for putting it together!
Thanks for the detailed video - good to see a 'real person' install before getting started. I'm installing one of these, and plan to plug the pump in via a smart plug, and leave the pump in the 'On' setting. Then I can just 'OK Google / Alexa, turn on the hot water' whenever I need the extra boost. Depending on the plug (I use Kasa) you can program them to auto off after X minutes too. Now you're not using extra gas either!
I also use Kasa for automation and was planning to do the same thing. I have it set to run from 6 AM to 10 PM, which only turns it off one third of the day, but I still find myself wishing for hot water if I have to get up earlier go to bed late. With Kasa, I can turn it off by remote if I am going to be away from the house for a while and I can just tell it to run 20 minutes before I needed if I want hot water outside the usual window. Everybody in my house loves the instant hot water so the installation has been a total success up to this point. Rinsing dishes and washing my face with hot water are probably my favorite benefit because I was not willing to wait for several minutes to heat the water up for those tasks and now I don't have to.
Great video and ideas!!!
If your house has a branched plumbing system so that the pipes split at the water heater into multiple legs, like one toward the master bedroom and one toward the rest of the house, you have to put a Watts sensor valve on each branch. The instructions are just the same as those in the video but you have to put a sensor valve under the farthest faucet from the water heater on both branches. When I completed the installation shown in the video, the hot water was instant in the kitchen and the kids' bedrooms but the master bath hot water time only improved by about 50%. After I install the second valve under the master bath sink, the shower, tub, and everything has quick hot water.
I had the same experience with multiple branches. Two valves are perfect. Installed maybe 4-5 years ago, our water heater and stove are the only gas appliances we use and the bill went from 20-30 on summer to 30-40 running 24.7 with uninsulated pipes.
I installed one valve in the furthest distance guest bathroom. I have no problem to have instant hot water in my master bathroom. However my kitchen sink has no improvement. Not sure if I need a second valve. But my gas bill went up $80 more when I run 24/7. Did I install correctly? I thought I did.
Noticing any of the additional costs on utilities yet?
@@whoisntwhoisit2126 Actually, I've been tracking my bills for almost a year and will publish my findings soon. The water is to little to detect, the electric (tested with a Killawatt meter on the pump) is a couple dollars a month, but the gas is something else. My gas bills jumped every month (except July) for the last 10 with no other significant changes in my home. I just have a gas water heater, fire place, and gas central-air heating. It looks like my gas usage went up about 1/3 in the winter. I'll publish it all when I get my April gas bill, giving me a full year of data.
@@eggcleaver916 You may want to break down the bills to CF gas used versus $$ because of the methane cost fluctuations past year.
I wonder if you could install the pump on the cold water inlet side of the water heater to extend pump life. The water flow should be exactly the same.
I have it and I love it. Keep in mind it doesn’t give you instant hot water. The water will be tempted warm and in 3-5secs it will be hot!
I don’t understand “tempted warm”. Please explain.
Thank you sor sharing
Great video! Just installed one of these myself. Unfortunately it's a new (to me) house so I have no baseline to tell how much more gas/ eltcricity I'm using now. Please update us with your results.
great vid really helps thnx. Your pump looks a bit close to that vent btw.
I live in the south where we usually don't have droughts and lots of rain so I am more concerned about extra energy usage. Any update yet on how it might affect gas/electric usage? I need it in the kitchen mainly. 95-100 degrees is not that hot for washing dishes. I assume it still takes the same amount of time to come up to max temp?
Great video, thanks! Any updates on utility usage with all that hot water sitting in the line? A follow-up video might get you a lot of views :)
Great Video, thanks for demonstrating good functional results. And thanks for the bonus tip about replacing the little OEM 5/8 plastic drain valve with a bigger 3/4 Ball Valve. I believe this solved a lot of noisy popcorn sounds with great results. So, when I replaced this valve, a shop vac sucked out about two pounds of calcium. Now, over time, I hope this Recirculating Pump provides an enduring solution. I'm looking forward to seeing a follow-up video. Here are a couple of 3rd and 4th order impact suggestions: 1st, please capture the temperature of the pump BEFORE it runs, and then AFTER it runs. 2nd, can we observe any concerning increase in water pressure above 70 PSI? 3rd, Any thoughts about a worst-case scenario failure? If the pressure gets too high, this solution leads me to inspecting and possibly re-piping CPVC pipes. Ya' know, localizing weak spots, especially on twenty-year-old brittle CPVC.
SEE my post- 12/11/23
Great video and thanks for having the time to upload it. Can you help me with a quick question. I noticed that during hard winter, cold water pipes are getting frozen, and hot water pipes are fine. Would this installation helped me to prevent cold water pipe get frozen since I am circulating water internally?
out of curiosity Wich way is the directional flow arrow on the body of the pump pointing towards the heater or the hotel line going into the house ?
thank you for the explaining how it work. I am looking at Home Depot, It is about $200 for the pump.
Great video and explanation! I just installed this yesterday, so this morning was the big moment of testing! I was a bit underwhelmed by how warm the cold water side was. It ran on the warm side for at least 30 seconds before becoming colder. Of course once you do this it remains cold since the valve is shut. Once the hot side cools the valve opens, again we have warmer water on the cold side. Not a huge problem, but clearly this recirculating pump offers an improvement, but don't expect it to be perfect. The good news is hot water is just a few seconds away. Anyone else have similar results?
I noticed the pressure went up when the sensor valves closed. This seems like it will cause more issues
Just came to ask about this. Thanks.
Yes as you mentioned the only downside is the cold water stays warmer (not hot) for about 30 seconds. Glad to hear I'm not the only one having this issue. So I will no longer try to fix it. And I would much rather have the warm to hot water at the kitchen sink. So all in all, it's a great investment.
@@RickMansur I completely agree! The benefits far outweigh any disadvantages. So much easier to keep the kitchen clean rinsing dishes with on-demand hot water right after use. We also have an RO water dispenser that is helpful for those rare times where we need colder water right away (i.e. water for the dog bowl). Cheers!
The benefit is that the pipes don’t freeze in winter, if you keep it recirculating. Say once every hour, so no frozen pipes.
Will this also help with faster hot water in the master bathroom shower? assuming i install this valve in the master bathroom sink, (both master sink and master shower are furthest away from water heater).
Be prepared for a dramatic increase in your natural gas bill. You will want to set the timer for ONLY the times you really need the instant hot water. That was our experience after installing this unit. Every few years, be prepared to replace the "balance" tube, also. Currently they sell for about $50.00.
Correct
Great info. Do you need to install a "magic valve" under each destination outlet? I.e . 3 sinks, 3 valves? Tnx
When the valve closes and stops the flow of water, how much does the temperature have to drop before it opens again to bring more hot water along? When it does open again, isn't it going to pump moderately hot or at least very warm water down the cold line? What if after that you want cold water? Won't the cold line then be full of mildly hot water?
So what happens if you have the master bath upstairs and the kids bath upstairs..... will hot water be instantly at both sinks or do I have to attach another sensor on the additional sink??
Do you need more than one check valve if the water heating your master bath is different that your kitchen sink?
do you have to install that black valve under each vanity you want instant hot water at?
Does this work for showers? or does that depend on how the bathroom is piped?
Yeah I need to install one of these, not because I need instant hot water, but because the way the house plumbing was done, hot water side will freeze up in the winter, causing me grief for the kitchen and dishwasher.
So after a year, how much (if any) has your energy bill gone up?
After installation of the Watts Hot Water Recirculating Pump,I started using it right away. As long as the pump is running all is fine, but when the pump shuts off I have pipe bumping at the faucet where the bypass valve is installed, when running water in the kitchen. I installed an arrester on the Hot water side at the by pass valve, and still have bumping when running water at the kitchen with the pump off, I turn on the pump and it stops. Should it take an arrester on the cold water too, to stop the bumping?
I have PEX pipes on my do I need special tools to do the connections?
My house currently has a gravity circulation loop to keep hot water near the faucets. This loop is unreliable and somewhat wasteful so I'm planning to add a circulation pump to the return loop. I use smart plugs and smart speakers to control other devices in my house (mostly lights) via a time schedule or voice commands. I'll control the circ pump the same way by scheduling on/off times, or more likely, use a voice command like "Hey Google, turn on the water pump for four minutes" when I'm getting ready for a shower. That will turn the pump on for four minutes and then shut it off without further interaction. Although I have a hot water return line/loop, I would use the same control system if I only had a hot to cold by-pass valve.
Thanks for explaining the operation of the under sink thermal valve. Here is how I understand it. Say the pump is set to run 15 minute on, 15 minutes off. Now, the pump is off, the water at the last sink cools to 89F* and the valve opens, when the timer reaches the ontime of this 15 minute cycle, (that could be one minute or it could be 14 minutes). But when it does turn on, the pump pushes hot water to the valve, the temperature rises to 90*F and the valve closes, but the pump continues to run until that 15 minute cycle ends. Do I have that correct.
If I do, it needs some automation. That pump should shut off when it is not needed. I'm sure an RF link back to the pump is in the future. I realize you can leave the pump running except at night and it will cost less than $0.10 a day, or $3 a month, that's not bad, but running the pump continuous 15 hours a day when it is probably only needed 1hour a day just seems wrong.
You have accurately described the pump operation and installation. Unfortunately, this make/model of recirculation pump suffers from a very poor design - yes, when the valve under the faucet detects that the water in the line is hot, it stops the flow of water. BUT...the pump back at the hot water tank continues to run, trying to push water to the faucet. Of course, it can't b/c the valve has shut and there is nowhere for the hot water to go. So the pump is trying to push water and cannot do so, overloading the motor which will eventually die an early death. It's like installing a window fan, turning on the motor, and closing the open window. A much better design and pump are made by AquaMotion, where the pump itself shuts off when the water line is hot. A little more
work to install, but a much better design.
I wonder if the pump is even necessary in a pressurized system, I think a temperature-based pass-through check-valve is all you need at the furthest tap or faucet. If it detects a temperature drop then the valve would open to allow the cooled water to recirculate. The recirculating pump can be removed from the system
@@0900McShizzle I was thinking the same thing.
@@0900McShizzle You would still need the pump. Even with the check valve open, the pressure on both sides of the valve will be the same, so there won't be any flow. The entire purpose of that little recirculating pump is to give a small pressure differential (slightly higher pressure on the hot water side). That's all you need for a small amount of circulation to take place.
Hi,. what happen if I dont want install the water pump just I want to install just the bridge valve into the faucet? its will work?
Instead of using the built in timer. I would use a wireless “smart” plug. You can set a timer and/or use Alexa or Google smart home to voice activate to prime your hot water on demand.
The valve on the heater at the bottom is a ball valve.
Thank you so much for the video. Rookie here, I have a Laing LHB08100086 E1-BCTNRN1W-06 that I would like to replace with Watts 0955800. Do you foresee any problems with this? Thank you so much for your help.
City gave me one free , Nice having instant hot water, Key is setting timer for when and only when you need it ,Never checked about water / gas bill difference because we use a lot of water sometimes on and off for gardening,
What did you conclude ?
Thanks
Is this compatible with a Rheem PROG50-38N-RH60
I never use hot water at the sink in my master bath, but i would like instant hot water in the shower about 6- 7 feet away. How`s that working. I think i could just let the pump run 5 min. before my shower, and then shut it off. until i need another shower.
What's the electricity cost a year later?
I just love a straight forward no BS video, thank you for that. Curious what your bill will be. I guess I don't care being on well water and solar :) Can you tell me why some smartass once told me that these don't work with modern water heaters? I don't see how there is any truth to that statement. Thanks again and don't forget to remove the diode and check it every year, apparently your tank will run forever if you change it out and flush it. Also, somebody once said that different diodes for different types of water city and well, one aluminum and the other..can't remember, so check into that too.
@corvus- I think the word you should be using is "anode" .
That is correct. Anode.
Maybe the advice that it won't work with modern water heaters is referring to a tankless heater. It won't work with those.
I have had mine for years but it has become ineffective because the valve has become clogged with mineral deposits again. I replaced it once or twice but haven't got around to replacing it recently.
do you have copper or cpvc pipe
Keep putting them in,i will keep busy replacing pipes.
You saying these are bad for the pipes?
isn't the connection off your faucet 3/8?
Let me add to your presentation, the max temp for the pump is: "not to exceed 120*", which is the most common temp setting on the H2O Heater, so any temp higher Voids the Warranty, of coarse mine burned out within a year,
So I Moved, & Set up New H2O heater With Expansion tank (Thermal-Expansion), & installed New WATTs on re-circulation side Not directly to water Heater, However Not many have a re-circulation Piping system, so I would suggest moving WATTs unit away from H2O heater 3-4', it also moves it away from the Exhaust Vent, (More Heat)
I now set my H2O heater to 140* Due to (Legionaries Disease thriving in warm temps) & installed a "Mixing Valve" set for 110*, we have Grandchildren & this Prevents Scalding from the Hot side.
It cannot push the cold water back to the heater but just to the cold water pipes if i understand it correctly.
Did your heating costs go up after installing this? If I understand correctly, it pumps back unused water back to the heater which then has to reheat that water until your next use. Is that correct and is your heating bill up?
There’s typically a slight increase in heating costs, it’s important to ensure that your hot water pipes are insulated to reduce heat loss and which will result in less recirculating of water
Hey everybody: If your issue is low flow to your shower... and you have a fairly new shower head... it's probably the rubber O-ring in the shower head and not your actual water flow. I called a plumber about having him install the recirc pump.. He walked in... turned on the shower, let it run for a few seconds and then shut off the water. He said, "I think I know what it is." He took the shower head off the pipe (the pipe that sticks out from the wall) and showed me that there is a rubber 0-ring, about 3/8" in diameter that is NOT a gasket! It is a restrictor. He pulled it out, put the shower head back on, turned on the water and HOLY SHEEEEEEET!!! PLENTY of water pressure and the hot water comes in half the time it took before. A few months later, I was in a rental home with the same shower, low flow. I took the shower head off and SAME thing!! Removed the 0-ring and WOW!!!! plenty of pressure and hot arrives in half the time.You will need a very small screwdriver or dental pick, sewing needle, etc. type of instrument to snag and pull out the 0-ring.
I have a watts and its the best
This is the recirculating pump our contractor installed when we remodeled our bathrooms a couple years ago. It seemed to be working great until we had a 5 hour power outage last week and it has not worked since. I had kept the box the pump came in and looking in it I discovered a check valve still in the box, so apparently none was ever installed.
It's not clear to me how this could work without a check valve, but ours seemed to be working properly. Is there some other way our contractor could've installed this without a check valve and still get a working result?
Actually, now that I've thought about it, we haven't noticed our cold water being warm at all, and I see a PEX tee into the cold water inlet atop the water heater and it feels pretty warm. I'm guessing our contractor set it up so the hot water line did a round trip from the most distant faucet all the way back to the supply line going into the water heater and allowed the recirculation pump to move hot water from the water heater through that loop whenever it was on. I remember wondering why it seemed I could always hear the pump running, and now it makes sense. It makes me think its motor may have burned out due to running even when no hot water faucets were open.
Sounds like they installed a dedicated return line. With the setup described in the video, the cold water line doubles as a return instead. So you have 3 lines, and this video has 2+check valve. Sounds like your contractor didn’t ever set the timer. These shouldn’t run 24/7 as far as I know.
I am interested to know how is your energy bill when your pump run consistently. I only installed sensor valve (Didn’t see the check valve is my package). I has no problem to have instant hot water everywhere when the pump is on. But my gas bill went up $80 more. Now I am losing hot water after using the timer.
If your power went out 4 or 5 times then the timer is X amount of time behind that the power was off. Reset your timer it behind a few hours I’d say. Had this happen to a customer of mine and the unit was less than a year old. I was about to order another pump when he mentioned that he had lost power during a storm and daylight savings time was during this time also.
Soooo now you’re waiting for the cold water to reach your faucet instead of the hot water?
Yes, your cold water faucet has to put its name on the waiting list :) It shouldn't have to wait more than several seconds. The shutoff sensor valve keeps it from receiving hot water after a few seconds (unless the recirculating hot water isn't hot enough to trigger the sensor - around 90 degrees I think). Unless you want drinking water there, I feel it doesn't matter, and often it is nice to have cold water that is slightly warm. The water coming out of the cold water recirculating faucet isn't really hot even if the sensor is open, because it cools down as it recirculates from the long distance from the water heater. And that would be at the furthest point. If your cold water is halfway to that point, it will be even cooler by the time it recirculates back there.
quick question..... did you install a second pass thru valve under the kitchen sink as well?
Did you get an answer about putting one under your kitchen sink
I have a couple of questions:
#1 So the pump runs sending the hot water to the sensor valve under the sink. When the sensor determines the water coming to it is hot, it shuts off dumping the water down the cold water line. When that sensor valve activates, does the back pressure in the pump line cause the pump to shut off - or does the pump just continue to run until the timer shuts it off?
#2 with the pump off and not running via the timer, will tank water flow through the pump with the pump not running?
The pump just keeps running. This bothered me at first because the water has nowhere to go and I thought that would wear out the pump. However, I think the valve is open most of the time. You can't see when it's open and there's no way that I can think of to detect other than holding onto the cold waterline.
I've been running this pump all the time except in the wee hours of the morning for two years and it doesn't seem to be bothered by pushing against the closed valve. It would definitely be a better system if the pump shut off when the water temperature at the sink had reached the target but that would make the installation more complex than this system.
So you only have to install one of those valves at the furthest sink and it will work at all the other sinks in the house? or do you need a valve for every bathroom and kitchen? ty
you only need one valve at the furthest room. the exception is if your hot water piping branches into two sections of the house. In that case you need one at the end of each branch (only if you need fast water on the other branch).
Update on electric and gas bill?
Thanks for the video. Your video makes my installation so much easier. But I have been facing few issues.
1. My gas bill went up $80 more in the first month when I keep pump on consistently.
2. I lose hot water in shower when the pump is off. The water gets colder and colder. I didn’t notice this issue when my pump was always on. It starts to lose hot water when I started to use timer.
The plumber told me I will lost cold water, but never mentioned I will lose hot water. Especially when you are taking a shower, the water is getting colder and colder. 😢
I don’t know if I have return line. Where can I check? Also will check valve solve my problem?
Set the timer to run only when you "need instant" hot water. If you're sleeping, you don't need "instant" hot water! For example: if you usually wake up at 6am set the pump to come on at 5:45am and turn off at 6:16am. in this example it only runs 30mins. Make it work for your schedule!
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Any updates on the energy cost comparisons, now that it's been 8 months?
My went up $80 when I run 24/7. I don’t think I install incorrectly. No leak, no noice. I am looking for solution right now. It shouldn’t be that high.
@@crystalpenaloza994 czcams.com/video/JXTuYuQjTSk/video.html
@@crystalpenaloza99480 bucks a month or for the year?
The loss of heat from the hot water happens through the WHOLE length of the feed pipe, not just the short length exposed under the sink. Else there would only be a second or 2 delay before you get hot water. Full time pump operation is a waste of electricity and gas. Run it 6am to 8am, and 5pm to 7pm. Gor instance.
ok you say i HAVE to open the bottom drain valve, because of pressure? or can i just shut off water coming into the home or hwh, and hot water faucets in the house?
Just make sure there's no pressure in the tank! Turning off the outside water valve won't depressurize the system.
I have been wanting to add one when I change out my water heater due to its age. Did you only install one valve at the furthest point from the heater? I saw you do the kitchen sink temperature did that one have a valve too underneath the sink?
It turns out, we have branched water pipes that split in two directions so the water on one side of the house doesn't heat up. I bought a second Watts valve for the master bath which I'll install this week and update the video with the results.
@@donstevens801 how do you know if you have branched water pipe? I wonder if I need a second valve for my kitchen sink
One way to tell is to run the hot water at a far end of the house until it is hot. Then open the faucet at the other end of your suspected branch. If it takes the same time to heat up as before you ran the hot water, then it is a different branch. Installing one on the other branch is optional. You only need to do it if you want fast hot water on the other branch. It will work fine on the branch you install it on.
Get ready to fix some leaks and replace fixtures.
Thanks for sharing. Couldn't you install it on the cold water inlet to you hot water tank to improve it's life?
Interesting question! Maybe the water heater can't handle the extra pressure? I assume you're talking about improving it's life by keeping the pump cool instead of hot all the time?
What if you just installed the bypass valve and no pump. Will it still work with just the system pressure?
No, pressure is the same on both sides of the valve so there is no flow.
There is a problem . We have pump available but no sensor valve can I make it myself of this valve if yes how I should
Second question is if there is hot water in pipe will pump will power off or keep pushing considering valve closed as of hot water
I've answered the second part of this question in earlier replies. For your first question, I think the issue with not having a sensor valve is that the hot water will mix with the cold water, and you will end up with warm cold water. And your heating bill will be higher. I don't think it would cause any problems with the pump. I would think your cost for making your own sensor valve would be higher than just buying it. It is sold separately.
Do you install the check valve on every sink?
No check valves used. We have a branched plumbing system that goes into directions from the heater. I put one sensor valve on the most distant sink along each of the two branches. The kid only comes with one so I had to buy a second. When I only used the first valve, the water along the second branch of the house did not heat well with the recirculating pump.
Isn’t the water from the HW tank that’s cooled off in the HW pipes pushed through the sensor under the sink going into the cold water system….not back to the HW tank? Because it seems to push the water that was hot…now cooled into the cold water input under the sink. Doesn’t this mean we’ve crossed the hot and cold water lines? And we’ll be drinking and cooking with water that was heated by the HW tank and will therefore have whatever sediment or sulphur that’s in the HW tank? Why would we ever want to do that? Or what am I missing? Thanks.
I don't think this is a real world problem with this device. See my earlier answer.
So does this work throughout every single hotside?
It should unless you have loops. Then you'll hv to find the ones that don't have instant heat on your hot side and but the check valves with sensors for those. Then all your lines should work flawlessly
Living in the desert, isn't your groundwater temperature pretty high as it is?
In the winter, our water comes out of the top about 54°. That's no fun to take a shower in and it definitely won't get grease off a knife covered in butter. If you'd like to sterilize your dishes, etc., this is a big help. Since our copper pipes run under the house, it would take 3-4 minutes of water running at full pace to get it up to the temperature of the hot water heater. With this it takes about three seconds. Another thing I love is, when you run the dishwasher or a load of laundry on hot, either of them would be full of tapwater before the water actually became hot. Now if you choose either of those settings you actually get to wash with hot water.
@@eggcleaver916 No, but how long does it take to get HOT water? A few seconds? That's not all that cold so it I can't imagine it would take very long to get up to temperature. Even a tankless water heater doesn't take 3-4 minutes for hot water to reach the fixtures, albeit I've noticed it takes longer than having a traditional water heater (testing in my home with a 50 gallon natural gas tank versus new construction with tankless.)
Do you have to remove the heat trap fittings from the water heater
No one ever answers this question. I can’t find an answer and don’t want to spent that much money to purchase and install something that won’t work.
Question: when the hot water goes back into the cold line, does it go back into the main City line? I don’t have a direct line back to the water heater. If so, I’ll be losing more water as the meters don’t discount water being returned. I’m confused
It can go back into the city water because of the water pressure at your main inlet pipe. My understanding is that it winds up flowing into the cold water inlet of the hot water tank. If you turn off every faucet in your house and go watch your water meter, It should be standing still with no water being used. If you then turn on the Watts pump, the water will be moving through your plumbing system but the water meter will not advance.
@@eggcleaver916 thanks for the insight. Will definitely give it a whirl. Worst case scenario, I can always remove it and try something different. Thanks again!
Im not an expert but it shouldnt go back because most cities have construction rules that demand a stop valve (i think thats the name) that wont let water exit your house backwards.. they are not always perfect but also water presure has to be too low for it to be lower than this pump .. just what i think maybe a professional can tell you a better answer
Also if that where the case it would happen anyway through the hot line
@@juankun82 It's called a backflow valve.
Ok, I understand the temperature 'sensing' valve - when the water being pushed by the recirc pump is cool, the valve stays open and the water recirculates. Once hot water makes its way to that cross-over valve, the valve closes. Then what? What if you are not running the shower but the recirc pump is still pumping but the crossover valve is closed (because the water is now hot) - the hot water now has nowhere to go. It can't go through the crossover valve because the water is hot and the valve is closed, and you aren't running the hot water tap or hot shower. At that point the recirculating pump is pushing against a closed system (not running any hot water out of any tap and the crossover valve is closed). Can't this damage anything? What am I missing?
I am asking myself the same thing..the pump keeps going even though the hot water at the sensor valve has reached its temperature..what are we not getting?
How does the pump not burn out when the valve is closed and the pump is still trying to push hot water against a closed valve?
pressure switched
@@its4michael, the pump only runs on a timer doesn't it? Where is this pressure sensor you say?
I answer this in more detail up the thread, but the simple answer is that the valve will reopen when the water cools down to 90 degrees. The water will cool down if the valve is closed because you won't have hot water circulating. The pump has to work a little harder, but I'm sure it is designed for this.
Pressure Switched Its4Michael says. This makes me feel better about the design if true. I can test it by forcing the valve closed (with cold water running), and feel the pump to see if it is still running. I would imagine that water pressure is not standard across cities, so the pump is designed to pressurize the water beyond the typical level and not damage itself.
When the timer is in ON position, the pump is running all the time regardless of the sensor position, correct?
Yes. The pump will run consistently 24/7
IS it ok to leave these pumps on 24/7. Seems easier. Also i see it down this way in all the new homes. They are just continuous, no trimmer .
@@trumpwon8231 supposedly yes. But probably not a good idea. at least schedule it to go off at night.
After some thinking, i have decided to not install re-circulation. i think hot water is not used often enough to keep the pipes hot and ready in residential setting. recirculation will probably waste more energy then running the faucet for 10-15 seconds to charge the pipes with hot water. best would be to find a way to make it on demand via some sort of switch or other smart means.
I still can't grasp how their isn't problems with the cold. All my cold lines branch off from the main. So the pressure from the hot side would be countering the pressure from the cold side. Where would the recirculated water dump? Not sure how it would dump back into the water tank unless their was a dedicated line and a back flow preventer of sorts...
The water pump is dumping it back in the tank. The pressure from the hot is higher, think of it as closed loop between the cold>tank>water pump>hot>TempValve>cold>tank…
@@CarlosG2288 But my COLD is not at the tank, but at the main line coming into my house. This settup would put 'warm' water into the COLD line???
@@vtraudtyes, that's how this systems works. Saves you having to install a dedicated recirculation pipe for your hot water. Any hot water pushed onto the cold side near the facet will cool down pretty quickly.
Would not like to have hot (or even warm) water going into my cold line, and coming out of the COLD faucet at other locatations in the house. I go with dedicated return line (just run simple PEX line from farthers faucet back to hot water tank, bottom drain with check valve). @@GreganDunn
@@vtraudt I'd have to rip through walls to make that happen. I've read several reviews where people have said that their cold water wasn't impacted. I'm not fully able to wrap my head around that, but I can see the warm water cooling quickly in the pipes. Frankly I want the water to be hot/warm coming out of my taps most of the time anyways (washing hands, showers). For drinking water and washing vegetables and such I can wait a few seconds for the water to cool down.
Timer…isn’t the timer there so you can heat it only at times when you think you’ll need the most hot water…ie: at set at 6 to 7:30 am before you get up for work, so your only paying for the xtra gas to heat for just that time…and I think you can set multiple times?
Yes, you can set up to 96 on/off times per day. increments of 15 minutes. But you need to be aware that power outages and daylight savings will change the time of day on the timer.
When the sensor shuts off the valve, Does the pump shut off too?
No, it will still pump the hot water to the hot water faucet. If the faucet is not open, and the sensor valve is closed, then the pump still runs. It is designed this way, it won't damage the pump apparently. I do think that it would be rare that the sensor valve would shut off if the water is recirculating only, because the water is not likely to get hot enough. If your recirculating hot water is so hot that it shuts down the valve without the faucet open, then you can turn the temperature down at the heater.
So if I understand correctly, once the valve detects the temperature and shuts does the pump automatically stop running until the temperature drops and the valve opens again?
My understanding is that the pump is always running (when powered on) regardless of what the inside valve is doing. The difference is if the valve is open, water flows to the cold side. If the valve is closed, the pump is still on but water does not flow. i.e. the pump tries to pump but cannot until the valve opens. I think that when the hot water is off, the pump maintains a slightly higher than normal hot water pressure than on the cold side. This is what allows the water to flow to the cold side because it effectively is overpowering the cold water pressure. When the hot water spigot opens the pump does not "add" pressure but allows normal water pressure to push the water out the spigot.
@@TonyDL Yeah I did some reading and figured it out is best to have it on something like a smart socket that you can put a timer on, so it's not running all day and night, but mostly during the hours you need it, like maybe 6 to 8 AM, or evening bedtime hours. It's one of those things that the only time it really annoys me is winter time when you want a nice hot shower or when waiting on the kitchen tap to hand wash some dishes. I'm in Central Texas so its like 100+ F right now so having instant hot water isn't so much an issue, lol.
While I like the idea of the water circulating pump and plan to install one myself, I do not agree that the connection under the sink is temperature valved. I tend to think it is only a manifold to allow water to pass through to circulate. If it was temperature valued and closes once the desired temperature is reached and if the pump was running after, the water in the pump (not the waterheater) would get too hot and over heat the pump. Being a past FD pump operator, if you keep all valves closed and keep your pump running the friction will cause the water to heat up inside the pump.
@@stevetafoya6688 I hear what you're saying Steve, but I did indeed 'prove' to myself that it was acting as a temperature valve. If you hook everything up and turn on the pump, it will pump hot water into the cold side (through the valve). To prove that it's actually doing this, I turned off the cold supply valve under the sink and then opened the cold water spigot. Without the valve in place, it will not flow any water. But with the valve in place and cold, it allows the water to flow through and come out of the spigot (from the hot side). Now do this same experiment in reverse AFTER the water runs hot at the spigot. Now turn off the cold water supply valve again and NO water will come out of the cold side spigot. This proved to me that it is indeed acting as a valve. Now, to your point... will the pump now overheat after having nowhere to pump the water? In my mind, it must be designed to "slip" when it can't actually pump water so that it does not overheat. That is my experience. Make sense?
@@stevetafoya6688 yeah, he is wrong about the valve. It is not temperature sensitive at all. It is always open.
another downside is that you are taking cooled hot water from the hot side and putting it back into the cold line. so if you drink cold tap water you are drinking water that has run through your hot water heater. eyuck.
Good point, didn’t think about this
Well I don't think this is really as bad as it seems. You aren't drinking pure hot water, perhaps 50% at most, and if you run the cold water for a few seconds then the shutoff valve will shut off, giving you more and more pure cold water. You will know when the water gets coldest that it isn't mixing with the hot anymore. I guess you'd have to wait the length of the cold pipe to get your 100% pure cold water. But the main problem would be calcium and minerals in the hot water, certainly bacteria would be killed by the hot water. It isn't like the hot water has been sitting around for weeks. I wouldn't expect that the hot water has scads of dissolved minerals that aren't in the cold water. They aren't precipitating out, and if they were, then the hot water heater would be cleaning itself with every drink.
Its $219 now. What seller did you purchase it from?
It was $179 on Amazon in October. Not sure if they will low the price soon
Does this affect the shower water too?
yes, you should get hot water faster in the shower too. The main thing is install that black valve to the further sink away from water heater.
Unfortunately, you also have no information/data about heat loss from these systems. I have one installed, including a second bypass valve at a more remote sink, and it works great...but I rarely turn it on unless I have company coming, as I fear that there is a VERY large hit on energy use when it is heating my concrete slab. I have found literally NO data about this level of loss.
I bought this water heater czcams.com/users/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.
This will put heated water into the cold line. Drinking water from the heater is hazardous. You will have to run the cold water for several minutes to flush the hot water out of the system. Basically the same waste as flushing out cold water from your hot line.
I thought the pump instructions say to install on the cold water side?
no. you install the pump on the hot water side of the water heater
Does this pump install fix the morning shower issue where water runs for awhile since my master bathroom is on the third floor and water heater is in the garage.
Good question.. I have the same issue.. not the sink but the shower. How to install the bypass valve for a shower... since you don't have the area "under the sink" with regards to the shower.
I’m curious as well. My assumption is as long as you install it at a sink, it should heat the shower up as well unless you have a split valve between the two.
I personally found the solution to my particular problem. I took the showerhead off and there was a rubber O-ring as a low flow restrictor. I took it out and now the shower water gets hot much faster and there’s more pressure.
@@TheCodesterr I found the solution to my problem, I took the showerhead off and found there was a low flow restrictor, an O-ring that I took out and now the water gets hotter much faster and there’s more pressure.
Oh interesting. I need to take mine apart and replace an oring since it drips every now and then, so I’ll take a look at this.
Soooo? Its been a year. How much more does it cost?
I saved my gas bills for over a year and it costs about $35/month.
Any update on the fuel cost after 1 year using the pump?
Yes, I collected all the data for a year (I just haven't gotten around to making a video about it) and it cost me $35 per month in natural gas to keep the copper pipes in my concrete slab house hot year-round. I probably save about 3 gallons of water every time I turn on the shower or the bath and some savings at every sink but that doesn't add up too much money, just water savings.
Is also an electrical cost but I think my amp meter says it's about $.17 per day to run the pump.
It’s been a year … did you save money or did it cost more in gas thx
Yes, I tracked my bills, month-to-month and on average, the additional natural gas cost about $35 a month for 3200 square-foot house.
@@eggcleaver916 but did you save any on your water bill?
Please CZcamsrs, stop recording videos in portrait mode. Use landscape because that's how we see, our eyes are place horizontally on our face! So now you're getting water tank sediment to drink in your cold water lines.
I never realized tat was why portrait was so annoying. But this video did manage to convince me this will save water.
@@longgone2023 it’s also why TV’s went wide screen. Because that’s how we see the world.
So now you have hot water from the cool line now if you need cool weater you have to waist the hot water from the cool line
Hi Eggcleaver, do you have an update on this? Thanks
I will have an update at the end of April as soon as I have a one-year of gas bills since the installation. At this point I think that my water bill is almost unchanged, electric bill change is trivial, and my gas bill is probably cost me 25-30 dollars more per month.
@@eggcleaver916 Not sure if you compared cost or amount of gas you used. Cost has gone up for just about everyone so that in itself is not a good measurement.
@@eggcleaver916 going to install this weekend. Did you every publish your gas bill results?
@@JoseMartinez-ll6rt I am doing the same and am also curious.
@@JoseMartinez-ll6rt
I have all the data but I just haven't found time to make the video. Here's what I learned. Over 12 months, my average daily therms consumed by our house went up 0.54. In December, the jump was about 1.12 therms per day, in the middle of the summer it was nearly 0. If you find out what the therm cost for your house, you can get a sense of the cost increase. I think for me was about $30 a month average.
I don't understand how a pump with a timer knows to turn off when the water at the bridge valve is 95* and so is closed and the hot water faucet is closed. You've closed the entire system with nowhere for water to go, but the pump is still running because it's on a timer.
The pump doesn't turn off. When the recirculating water gets hot enough, the valve at the far end shuts, but the pump stays on. It doesn't feel right to our senses, but just think of it as adding a little bit of additional pressure to the line. (your hot water can actually be faster than your cold!) One wonders if the pressure would just continue to build until the pipes burst! But I'm sure they designed the pump to not be that strong, and not to break down... 5 minutes later... Oh... I researched this and there is a reason why the pump wouldn't run forever with the valve closed. The answer is that if the valve is closed, the the hot water is not circulating, and if it isn't circulating, then it will cool down. When it cools down the valve will open again. Funny thing, I watched this video to answer a question I had, basically where does the recirculating water go? And now I find that I'm answering 30 questions that people have for this video. I installed this for the first time today, and now I'm feeling like I'M the expert! I hope I'm right with my answers :)
I just don't want a timer. I want the pump and the water heater to run only when hot water is demanded. To me that means a pressure or flow switch needs to be governing the operation of the pump. When it senses low pressure or flow due to an open valve (faucet) it turns on and speeds the flow of water through the bridge valve, allowing hot water to reach the open faucet much more quickly. I don't want my water heater turning on and burning gas to heat water in the lines when none is being used. Make sense? Thanks for your answers. Homeowners sometimes do end up being the experts. A professional might sell you a new model with the pump built in and run a dedicated recirculating line for $20k.
@@jerchapman
11 months ago that pump was $100. Today it is $289. Looks like I won't be installing a recirc pump.