Real in-flight emergency - Smoke in the cockpit
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2022
- Pan-Pan - Mid air emergency - A newly qualified pilot's skills are tested to the limit when he faces an electrical fire at 3000 feet over Essex in England in a Cessna 172. A Flying Reporter special report with actual video of the incident along with a debrief with the pilot and the Air Traffic Controller who coordinated his landing.
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Hi all - this is me!
Happy to answer questions, just reply to this comment.
Thanks for watching, and thanks to Jon for the experience and the opportunity to get this out there. Much appreciated.
Hi Zac, interested to know what was the cause of the smell?
@@eglkFlyer Hi! I’m not able to go into much detail but it was a fault with the electrical system which essentially was cooking the battery.
Thanks for sharing and congratulations on doing a great job. I'm curious if it was a conscious decision to call PAN-PAN instead of MAYDAY - you could certainly have justified a mayday call there. It obviously won't have affected to outcome, but I'm just interested in the psychology.
@@thomasdalton1508 Hi, thanks for the comment.
It was definitely a conscious decision that’s difficult to justify looking back on it. A mayday would have absolutely been the right call.
It’s likely that even with how bad the situation was, the normalcy bias was still so strong that I chose the option that deviated less from the normal.
Like you said, the effect was the same and the outcome was a good one, but hopefully I would be less reluctant to use mayday in future.
Zac, that was epic mate. I don't have any questions, I just wanted to say a very hearty Well Done!
Bravo. The word Pilot as in PIC is encompassed by your words of “we are ok don’t worry” to your Dad. At that moment to default to reassuring your passenger is amazing. Kudos to your instructors kudos to you for doing what you were trained to do. Enjoy your next flight and your probable focus on FREDA checks every. 45 seconds or so….we’ll done.
Thank you! You’re right, my FREDA checks have been every 5 mins or so since!
Great job especially for a newly minted PPL-a hearty congrats to Zac. Reflects very well on your CFI/training. Jon, as always, your reporting skills shine through. Douglas.
Top quality debrief - thank you Zac, Henry and John.
Brilliant video - so helpful to think through with the commentary - great learning
Great Job Zac !! Very interesting episode with a happy end ! Quite a few things to think about before starting the engine !
Thanks for sharing this experience with us.
Fly safe Jon.
What a great video - honest, informative and clear - definitely one to ponder over.
Thanks for sharing Zac, well done
Well done Zac and ATC, good result! And thanks for video Jon. I had exactly the same thing happen to me in a 152. Luckily I was in the circuit so was on the ground very quickly. Good idea for all of us to familiarise ourselves with the fire extinguishers, some can be quite noisy when deployed which is something to remember. Glad everyone was ok!
Well Done Zac, hell of a job and thanks for sharing.
Zac great job, very well handled! Jon, thnx, great video and very informative! It is these type of real life examples we learn from and get better pilots!
Aviate ..navigate communicate...top job fella
Good Interview. Thank you!
Well handled. zac, and thanks for putting together an excellent debrief Jon 👍
Excellent video Jon! Thank you very much for doing it and thank you Zac and Henry for being brave enough to take part ;)
What an excellent video. There are so many learning points for us student pilots. Thank you Zak, you were amazing! Your analysis was so insightful, too. I bet your Dad is incredibly proud of you. Thanks also to Henry - hearing the ATC perspective is extremely useful. Thank you, Jon, for bringing this to us. I'll certainly be giving the fire extinguisher more thought prior to my next lesson!
Well handled Zac, perfectly executed, that will give you a lot of confidence in any emergency going forward. 😊
great video, and very useful learning experience
Great Job Zac, and informative vid Zac and Jon.
I like the way you immediately reassured your dad. I think I would do the same - it’s not denial of a problem, but keep the pax calm - gives you more time to do the thinking.
And I’ll definitely check my fire extinguisher before my next flight!
I’m seeing and reading lots at the moment which reinforces the fact that you can’t think ahead too much.
Safe flying!
Great video. An inflight fire is horrible for any pilot of any experience. Zac did a fantastic job.
An excellent job by Zac, very interesting to watch.
Outstanding! Well done all.
I should imagine smoke in the cockpit would be the scariest possible thing, other than seeing actual flames. Very well handled and a nicely filmed documentary.
What an amazing story - huge congratulations to the young pilot for keeping his cool and acting so brilliantly. If I was his father I would be incredibly proud.
This is a brilliant video, and thank you Zac for sharing your story. Glad to see it all worked out positively in the end. As a newly qualified pilot myself, I can’t think of anything more scary than smoke in the cockpit.
There’s a lot here to take in. You seemed to remain calm and completely in control throughout which is really admirable. It’s great to see that it hasn’t put you off flying too!
Thank you, and all the best with your flying!
Well done Zac , well handled , and food for thought , We can all learn from this , nice landing too ! great service from Southend as usual , thanks Jon for producing this👍
I really do love the Southend controllers, always a fantastic, friendly service. Thanks for the comment!
Glad it all worked out and the training sure helped as well.
Real benefit of being able to review videos after the event.
Well done and thank God.
Interesting to hear both perspectives: this must be equally stressful for controllers who almost never get to experience a genuine emergency. People die in incidents like this and that must be equally stressful for controllers as it is for pilots. Interesting to see how there's no debate and just a quick response with the essentials. Removing uncertainty is the right move.
It's one of those things that pilots train more for than normal people but just knowing ahead of time what you are going to do when X happens is not a skill that a lot of people have. Good instincts can compensate for that though and fast thinking can cut to a lot of nonsense but it can also lead you to pile on mistakes on top of a bad situation. The general advice of aviate, navigate, communicate was seen in action here. The first thing that happened was pointing the nose at a likely safe place. Which indicated situational awareness. And only then the communication happened. Essentials were communicated quickly, the response was professional, helpful and as good as can be expected. The rest was just flying the plane down to the runway.
Good Job Zac. How we value ATC👍
I once had smoke in the cockpit, very odd and quite scary (my smoke experience came from the floor so was very confusing). Well handled Zac.
Relax and professional !
Great new pilot.
I’ve always been blamed for a “bad smell in the cockpit!” 😏
Seriously, glad things worked out. Fire is a very serious problem in an aircraft, second only to structural failure. Gets your attention though doesn’t it?
Top notch video Jon, as always. It'd be interesting to hear what happens after such instances, do you have any plans to do such a story?
Thank you for your excellent content. It looks like your fish tank could do with a change of water. Fish may prefer to be in a larger environment.
You should have bailed out with your parachute… AND YOUR RIDGEWALLET®
This is mental - the spooky thing is I have flown with my dad in this exact aircraft twice at the start of the year. Can't imaging how I would have felt if this happened to me. I am just finishing my PPL at North Weald and have flown to Southend a few times with my instructor, and solo, and they are always very helpful. Dream career in ATC too haha. Well done Zac!
It's a numbers game with failures like this. Maintenance can improve your odds but it's never zero.
Good luck with the training!
@@zackaplowitz cheers! Maybe I’ll see you around at north weald haha
Well handled
Timing of this video is weird! I’m a low time PPL and was chair flying the in flight electrical emergency checklist yesterday for the C172N. Noticed that the checklist suggests using fire extinguisher with windows and vents closed until after discharged. Well handled Zac and a great topic to cover with your usual pro journo flair Jon!
Until another comment pointed it out, I hadn’t realised that Cessna’s electrical fire checklist is different to any other SEP. I found:
PA28 - vents open, no mention of fire extinguisher
DA20 - cabin air on, use fire extinguisher only if smoke continues after master off
SR20 - vents open, no mention of fire extinguisher
M20 - vents open, no mention of fire extinguisher
152, 182 and 210 checklists all agree with the 172. Cessna seem to stand alone on this. Very strange.
I’ve had to deal with smoke in the cockpit when I was in the RAF, crewed on the Boeing AWACS. It was the autopilot system which was located beneath the cockpit. The principles are all still the same regardless the size of the ac. Don’t panic, take stock of all indications, work through the check list, eliminate system by system until the smoke stops. But always, aviate, navigate, communicate. I think Zak did a remarkable job considering his lack of experience. Bravo! What was the cause of the smoke?
Voltage regulator failed, battery acid (which is diluted sulphuric acid) was being boiled. Pleasant!
Thanks for the comment. System by system definitely makes sense for more complex aircraft that are more dependent on their electrical system/avionics, but I had a switch that turned everything off (almost guaranteed to resolve the problem, or at least stop it from getting worse) while allowing me to keep flying just fine!
about that fire extinguisher "practice run": same goes for shutting off fuel... practice it some time before getting in the air (or even starting your engine). In a C172 it's pretty straight forward, but on my plane (Aquila A21) it was a surprisingly difficult move that I would not want to find out during an emergency. It's one of those valves with the left and right tank positions at 45 degrees left and right of "12 o'clock", and the off position at 6 o'clock. While trying to turn your hand backwardds (which is physically challengin at the very least) you also need to lift a pin that is there to prevent you from accidentally shutting off your fuel supply. Since I discovered this difficulty, I practice the move at least once a year (hint: it's a 2-hand move if you want to do it the easy way).
Next flight, I will also try the fire extinghuisher...
Ooh. I have never moved that thing, you’re right. Will do next time. Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for a very useful chance to learn from others. One thing I would like to see - what happens when you set off a fire extinguisher in an aircraft. Could that be a good topic for a future video, Jon? Maybe ask Pooleys to donate an extinguisher, and use an old scrap GA aircraft somewhere to see what happens?
indeed..good thought. Does it just spray and dissipate, or flood the cockpit with fine particles that blind the pilot?
@@drunkinbda Having used these types of fire extinguishers in airline training the drill is to put on an oxygen mask before use due to the gasses given off , letting an extinguisher off in a light aircraft cockpit without oxygen is a real incapacitation hazard and something of a last ditch option. My thoughts are that taking the heat away from an electrical fire will almost certainly put is out and the decision to turn off the electrics was the correct action. Filling the cockpit with a gas designed to expand and block out the oxygen in the air is likely to cause more problems than it solves.
Good job
As a ex flight instructor in Australian fire is the worst situation you can have and getting on the ground is paramount
Initial actions need to be memorised but check lists later (if time ) knowing fire extinguishers and shutting fuel off also .A pax brief and exit aircraft fast if needed ? As for the light from the tower you can always ask tower controllers to shine them at you in your training they are only to happy to
Fantastic point at the end that I’ve never thought about. Would be a valuable experience for any student.
You could pull it apart and kick through the weeds all day long but I'd say handled very well and positive outcome. Yes some can argue a positive bias at the beginning but if everything that raised your senses resulted in a precautionary landing you'd never leave the ATZ. The fact of the matter is as new information become available you assessed it and made a new decision. Good job
Thank you :)
It’s funny, I was doing my biannual renewal when took off went down wind and the engine stopped. You do just go into an automatic mode of training with no fear.
I remember a terrible acrid sulphurous smell that you could barely breath turned out to be battery over-charging and literally boiling the sulphuric acid. So you probably did do the right thing opening the window in this case. The problem is that you are not going to diagnose that in flight and fire in the cockpit means whatever you do you have to be on the ground in minutes or less. I looked hard but I can't see from the footage what the charge needle is showing, but its probably high charge or discharge!
That is what happened, exactly the same thing.
I watched this last night and was impressed with how calm Zac was. One suggestion I would have is for a handheld transceiver to be in flight bag for such emergences and there on the backseat. Interesting the comments on fire extinguisher......pause for thought
Thanks for the comment. It would need to be so loud to be useful - or do you get ones that you plug your headset into? Haven’t given them much thought.
@@zackaplowitz Cool, calm collected - well done. I've just bought a Yaesu FTA-250L 2 weeks ago, you regular GA headset plugs into it via an adaptor (which is supplied). It's quite basic, but has plenty of memory so you can programme in the airfields, Farnborough radar etc or just use the 121.5 button. Cost me just under £195.
@@zackaplowitz also you could've asked you dad to call Southend ATC and he could've relayed messages for you.
@@eddthirty4065 Thank you, I’ll have a look at that.
I did actually get him to call but it was impossible to hear with the engine noise and the window being open!
Very well done Zac! Yes, knowing how to unfasten the fire extinguisher, how to remove the safety pin, and how to set it off certainly is important.
But I can assure you, I am flying a different type of single piston aircraft, the electrical fire checklist for my aircraft does (i) indeed call for opening of the airvents/ventilation windows, and (ii) doesn't (ever) suggest to set off the fire extinguisher while inside the aircraft, let alone while aloft.
I would (and more importantly, the manufacturer of my aircraft seemingly would) agree with you that (i) failing to exhaust the fumes, and (ii) further blinding/suffocating yourself with the fire retardants jointly or severally could have easily killed you.
I find it very surprising to see (and I looked it up myself, and confirm that this is what the the C172 POH says) that the emergency checklist for the C172 calls for keeping the vents closed, and to deploy the fire extinguisher
Interesting. I’ll have a look at what other SEP POHs say. Thanks for the comment.
PA28 - vents open, no mention of fire extinguisher
DA20 - cabin air on, use fire extinguisher only if smoke continues after master off
SR20 - vents open, no mention of fire extinguisher
M20 - vents open, no mention on fire extinguisher
152, 182 and 210 checklists all agree with the 172. Cessna seem to stand alone on this. Very strange.
Nice response to a genuine emergency, definitely learn from it but don't beat yourself up on what you could have done differently.
I'm nearing my PPL skills test and I found your comments about "how to remove the fire extinguisher" interesting. One of the C150s that I train in has the expiry date positioned on the extinguisher in such a way that you have to unbuckle the thing to be able to check it. Not sure if that is deliberate, but maybe an accidental good idea.
In addition, when embarking on my cross-country, I noticed that the extinguisher and first aid kit were stored in the seat back pockets in the other C150, but the extinguisher was in the pilot seat back - not very accessible to a solo occupant. I swapped them over at that time. The first aid kit should ideally be more accessible, although I can't imagine a situation where I'd be using it on myself whilst trying to control the plane.
Good luck on your test!
I had a capacitor in my autopilot decide it wanted to be no more - the amount of smoke it produced was crazy - isolating the AP on the breaker stopped the smoke but as mentioned in this case the smell remained for ages whilst I routed back to the airfield, paranoid I was going to be dealing with flames any second etc...
Fortunately it was very obvious where the smoke had come from so I was happy just isolating the AP, so still had comms etc the whole time - would have been a lot worse if like this scenario I'd had to isolate the entire electrical system
Well handled, did you think to get the fire extinguisher out and give to our passenger with brief how to use if necessary.
interesting video I'm glad to see it all ended well for all concerned but as the cause of the problem been established? and what extinguishers do light aircraft carry I would guess C02?
Usualy HALON or BCF.
Zac, I think you did everything perfectly. A cockpit full of CO2 would not have been a good thing.
The trouble is it is not a cockpit full of CO2, it is HALON or BCF, both are far better at expelling the oxygen from the area, this is a serious incapacitation hazard.
This happened on my skills test thankfully as I was over the airfield at the end. The radio decided to give up and blow out a load of smoke as I was at 1000ft. Turned all electrics off which stopped the smoke
Must have been nice to be over an airfield.. longest 14 minutes of my life. Good job though!
Well done on handling the situation. Using the fire extinguisher I suspect would have just made a mess - you don't say where the fault actually was, but from where the smoke came from it seems likely to be deep in the panel, so spraying the panel isn't likely to have done much useful. Removing it so you had it ready eg in case of actual flames would indeed be a good plan though. I'd agree on opening the window - the risk is you 'fan the flames', but for an electrical fire that's unlikely to be an issue Vs the benefit of fresh air so you aren't breathing in potentially toxic fumes...
Completely agree. The problem wasn’t the outcome, it was that I didn’t make that decision not to use it, I just.. didn’t use it!
@@zackaplowitz it was a good decision NOT to use the extinguisher, if you absolutely have to use the extinguisher it should be aimed intro the area behind the instrument panel from below
Well edited and produced Jon (as always).
I'm guessing the SkyEcho ADSB resulted in the continuous tracking on FlightRadar24 that I just reviewed. Presumably this is linked to a phone app for traffic advisories etc.? The phone must have also provided moving map navigation - very reassuring at such a stressful time. A very strong argument for independently powered cockpit devices.
Although unofficial, I wonder if Southend Tower have access to ADSB displays such as FlightRadar for just such an emergency (total power loss to the plane's SSR transponder) ?
You’re correct about the skyecho, flightradar24 prioritises that over the transponder as far as I can tell.
It’s linked to SkyDemon and does display other traffic, but only traffic with ADS-B out (inbuilt or with a device like a skyecho) or FLARM. In reality this means all commercial traffic, most gliders, and some general aviation traffic. It has been useful many times but useless far more times. Not regretting the purchase at all, especially as the more people that have them the more effective they get, but it’s not perfect.
The skyecho also provides GPS data to the phone which is far more accurate than the phone’s GPS.
SkyDemon is of course a moving map application and is invaluable in regular flying and even more so in an emergency situation. However it’s extremely important to make sure that SkyDemon stopping working doesn’t turn into an emergency of its own - you’d be surprised how many pilots let their old-school nav skills completely disappear.
I’ve seen many air-ground towers using adsbexchange.com (open-source flight radar which shows many more aircraft than flightradar24) but I’m not sure that fully licensed ATC would be allowed. That being said, if the use of a flight tracking site by a controller saved a pilot’s life, I don’t think anyone would be criticising them.
I've often wondered about using a fire extinguisher in a cockpit with the doors closed. Would you be able to see anything afterwards? What if the chemical got into your eyes? How long would you wait until opening the doors and vents? With all the fire retardant in the air, how would you know if the fire was extinguished properly? So many questions...
Great aircraft handling by a newly qualified PPL - Well done.
One question - I could not see any emergency vehicles by the side of the runway when the aircraft was landing at Southend. Did I miss the blue lights or were there none...?
Statistically, I suppose you can consider this a last major problem in your flying career, but should another one surface it will lose the battle to such a calm, thoughtful approach.
I want to give you additional credit, not made noteworthy in the debrief, as to how you kept your passenger assured. Difficult to do when your own hide is potentially on the line. Flying the airplane, taking immediate and sensible action, communicating the problem, engaging your passenger and offering continual assurance are the hallmarks of some of the best commercial transport pilots.
Well done!
The passenger was great - you practically had to wake him up to reassure him.
@k1mgy Thank you so much for the comment, really appreciate it.
I've experienced smoke in the cockpit, C150B, 1980s, down wind of arable crop field burning - that was confusing for a millisecond or two, then disconcerting. Fortunately these days such is less frequent, if at all experienced.
That would definitely be confusing!
@@zackaplowitz It was of its time but an unpleasant practice for those on the ground too.
Zac, has the source of the smoke been identified and it didn’t pop and fuses?
When you decided to go to Southend did you need the surface wind and QNH from the controller before you turned off your panel or is it not far from your departure airport. Hayden
It has been identified - the battery was essentially being cooked.
The QNH was helpful to double check but not essential. Getting the surface wind in advance isn’t too important unless it’s really strong - coming in on final approach you can 1. see the wind sock and 2. feel the effects of the wind!
Master switches both off straight away
Well done Zac. Did you consider landing at Clacton?
Thank you.
I did consider it briefly but the short, unfamiliar runway at an uncontrolled airfield with less emergency response capacity made it a quick decision.
Dennis / Zac, thought the same thing rather than contact the controller, water crossing (in case of engine failure) and then transit to Southend. Its one reason I like to fly around to at least view local airfields from the air, just in case. Very well handled though.
Very interesting video to see with pilot and atc controller. I just wonder what caused the smoke. As we know it was in the electric system. I am not sure if he flew this aircraft 6 days later again, if so, the damage was not that big. Btw, I have seen a video of an emergency in the USA where they decided to use a cellphone to keep contact with atc. Have they considered here to let Zack call Southend atc with his cellphone? Or with his dad's cellphone? Thanks for sharing this.
It wasn’t this aircraft that I flew again 6 days later.
I asked my dad to try calling but he couldn’t hear anything. It’s possible that if I climbed and then did an idle power descent, they would have been able to hear each other during the descent, but the light signals exist for a reason, and they work, and so getting on the ground was my priority.
@@zackaplowitz Ah, ok that makes sense. And getting save on the ground is surely the nr1 priority. Great job done Zac!
Dad didn't seem that concerned, just kept taking pictures!
I guess because they assume you know what you're doing and their best contribution is to seem really calm.
You didn't mention in the video what the actual cause of the smoke was. Yes it was electrical but what component/equipment
I just wonder why Pan Pan only. Fire can develop very quickly. Mayday in my opinion would be more appropriate.
Thanks for the comment - I agree with you. See my answer to another comment pasted below:
Q:
I'm curious if it was a conscious decision to call PAN-PAN instead of MAYDAY - you could certainly have justified a mayday call there. It obviously won't have affected the outcome, but I'm just interested in the psychology.
A:
It was definitely a conscious decision that’s difficult to justify looking back on it. A mayday would have absolutely been the right call.
It’s likely that even with how bad the situation was, the normalcy bias was still so strong that I chose the option that deviated less from the normal.
Like you said, the effect was the same and the outcome was a good one, but hopefully I would be less reluctant to use mayday in future.
@@zackaplowitz Thanks for your reply. Explanation sounds reasonable. In case it's ever needed again set your mind for Mayday call first and then think again if you can downgrade to Pan Pan.
@@michals5900 An electrical fire is a MAYDAY pure & simple. It is far to serious to be not on the ground ASAP.
@@Robinbamv That I know. I was just wondering what was behind author's decision to declare Pan only. I have my answer.
What was the cause of the smoke? Could be useful info to know.
The voltage regulator failed. The smell and smoke were due to the battery acid (which is diluted sulphuric acid) boiling
Soo 🫣🫣😱😱😱
Step-1 thru 10 : Land the plane !!!!!!!!!!!! After that, try again
Sorry but the interviewer is just being ridiculous. Of course he had fear, who wouldn't, but it was how he dealt with it that showed he will be a quality pilot. Beautiful landing under the circumstances not knowing if the panel was going to burst into flames at any time.
How does a 17 year old afford a ppl