“MAYDAY, SMOKE IN THE COCKPIT”. Lufthansa Cargo Boeing 777 returned to Chicago O’Hare. Real ATC
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
22-DEC-2022. A Lufthansa Cargo Boeing 777-F (B77L), registration D-ALFF, performing flight GEC8200 / LH8200 from Chicago O’Hare International Airport, IL (USA) to Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, TX (USA) during climb out of Chicago, stopped climb about at 12000 feet, declared MAYDAY due to smoke in the cockpit and returned back to Chicago O’Hare Airport.
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#realatc #aviation #airtrafficcontrol
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Timestamps:
00:00 Description of situation
00:17 Initial climb and start of return
00:26 Lufthansa Cargo 8200 contacted Approach controller, MAYDAY
04:34 GEC8200 contacted Tower controller
05:36 Landing
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THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.
![Pilotseye.tv - Lufthansa A380 Descent and Landing - Frankfurt [English Subtitles]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/97UarwKILzI/mqdefault.jpg)
At :30 when the pilot declares an emergency and Air Traffic Control responds with, " What do you need? I have these runways available." and then lists the runways....THAT is professionalism.
Truly outstanding ATC
Not sure how the list of runways is of any help here. Instead a "the longest runway with favorable winds is currently x" would be more helpful.
@Ruben Kelevra the runway they landed on is the longest runway at ORD.
@@RubenKelevra I think in any emergency a complete list of available runways gives the pilot more options and allows them to go into that situation with more confidence especially if they very familiar with that airport.
Yes, but it still irked me when they shortly thereafter the pilot said 3 on board, and ATC still asked for souls
At 3:59 they mistakenly transmitted cockpit conversation:
"Was machen wir in case of missed approach?"
"What do we do in case of missed approach?"
They did it earlier too! When they're on oxygen it's easy to hit the wrong button.
Thank you!
1:22 they say that they should turn on the vent.
Their earlier accidental transmission sounded stressed, but by the time they were double-checking the plan for missed approach, they seemed like they were all good.
@@yooein Indeed, exactly.
Thank you very much!🙂👍
👍
European pilots so much more disciplined and succinct with comms.
BS!!!
Not really.
This is because we are trained early on to use ICAO standard phraseology. Americans (and British to a lesser extent) tend to use colloquial English on the radio. E.g. there's no such thing as "hazmat" in standard phraseology. It is called "dangerous goods" as in "IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations" and should be refered to as such to avoid the kind of misunderstanding we can hear here.
US pilots are flying in a huge english-speaking country, bordered by canada which is also primarily english and the caribbean which is also loaded with english. Europe you fly 2 hours and cross 5 languages, so english needs to be clear and simple and strictly by the books.
We'd still like to know what happens after the planes land. What caused the smoke in the cockpit?
I don't know more. I have only audio. There was no reports about this situation.
They stopped 5 minutes and taxied to the parking stand.
I think the pilot said it might have been ‘dry ice’ causing the smoke
@@alexcoxcox87the pilot mentioned dry ice as being one of the hazardous materials on board that ATC were enquiring about.
@@alexcoxcox87 no. The pilot was asked if they have hazardous material on board - and they responded that it's nothing seriously hazardous, probably just dry ice.
Airplanes have over pressure ventilation, so the packs are pumping fresh air into the plane while the exhaust valves do vent any overpressure to keep the set atmospheric pressure. The exhaust is vented at the back of the plane.
So normally even if there's dry ice is sublimating on the plane's cargo hold, it should be vented to the back of the plane not towards the cockpit.
Smoke is more likely to be caused by a malfunctioning pack unit in one of the engines, causing excessive oil vapors or oil smoke to be pumped into the plane.
Checklist for smoke in the cockpit is therefore stopping the ventilation - thus the packs immediately.
Why did tower sugest they exit the runway when they had stated they would stop on the runway? Why swich frequency?
So they can keep the runway open also safer for crash crews off the runway. Different frequencies for each runway/ground etc
@@BOtto23 Yes, but emergencies should always get absolute priority over all other trafic and exiting and changing frequencies, especially when this was not the initial plan, increases the workload of the pilots and crash crews when they should focus 100% on making sure everything is safe, plus there is always the risk of vital information not getting across or a complete loss of communication?
Pilot could have just said ‘unable’ if he really thought stopping on the rw was necessary
01:22 something in German...anyone know what was said?
as far as i could understand it was "soll ich eine Liste oder so machen" and then a few seconds later "und 28 ist drin?". Could be translated to "should i make some kind of list" (probably referring to working on a checklist - "should i work some checks?) and "28 is inside?" - probably referring to the flight management computer, meaning "is the runway all set up and everything configured?"
Then the question about the missed approach at 3:59 where it said "was machen wir in case of missed approach?" - so "what do we do in case of missed approach?"
@@laulpoecken danke schön!
@@oberpenneraffe er sagt definitiv liste, nich das Nächste
@@oberpenneraffe Dann verwende doch mal deine Ohren, Piefke. Er sagt :Soll ich irgendeine Liste oder so machen?
@@oberpenneraffe 😂😂😅
Every You Can see ATC thumbnail: "Pilots declare MAYDAY!! Emergency!"
Reality: "uhh yeah we have a small technical issue up here, gonna need hold vectors to run some checklists, thanks"
Apparently you did not hear the pilot declare MAYDAY. It doesn't matter if he had a sore toenail, when Mayday is declared, ATC Treats it as such.
@@TheGospelQuartetParadise I'm talking about this channel and their goofy clickbait dramatic titles. Of course the actual control staff treats it with the requisite care, and rightfully so.
@@TheGospelQuartetParadise Maydays are ignored. Emergency is much better.
@@harrywillman8456 In this case, the pilots did declare a mayday - they inform app on initial call and confirm it.
I too think this channel sensationalizes it in a lot of videos, but not in this case.
Smoke in the cockpit is quite serious! you can hear them wearing their oxygen masks
I LOVE MAYDAYS!!!! MORE MAYDAYS!!!!!
should become one of the seven weekdays
Well done, Lufthansa pilots and Chicago ATC. Just about the fastest possible to get on the ground looks like!
Compared to this incident recently posted:
czcams.com/video/vOn-isYAzzo/video.html
...where they flew around doing 'checklists'. The disparity in these two incidents is interesting, being as both had masks on, and yet the American flight was just loitering about as if nothings really wrong. When you have masks on *it's all wrong*.
Most of the comments back to me about this were saying 'checklists' and other things. So explain the Lufthansa crew not doing that as well, eh? Or are they better at it than USA carrier pilots? *shrugs*
I'll say basically what I said there: Fire/fumes happening: Get. Down. Now. Consider the airplane and cargo already lost if you have to to save the souls. Checklists be damned. Two people are involved in the flight (at least as of this writing... Cargo airlines are trying to make it only one pilot for cargo flights, and these incidents prove the airplanes and shippers aren't ready for that.) One pilot flying. The other communicating/setting things. Then proceed to get on the ground soonest before the airplane does it for you and/or maims/kills the passengers and crew.
Armchair pilot here, truth, but still. Very glad to see it being done right here, for sure. Y'all go on and tell me why I'm wrong, it should be interesting. :) Carry on!
Another good/bad example was the National 747 w/a cargo fire out of Narita some time ago. The ATC fumbled w/ poor English & understanding for what seemed like an eternity trying to understand what the National pilots were dealing w/ & what they wanted to do. The ATC couldn’t understand/comprehend/grasp the meaning of ‘we want on the ground ASAP’
The Smoke, Fire, Fumes checklist explicitly says not to delay landing in order to perform the checklist.
Any half decent pilot will calculate their return to land performance before departure, so a return to land, to the runway of your choice, is easier and would take 4 actions to complete to set up the flight deck for the return.
"Hazmat" is a term no one understands. Say "Dangerous Goods"
No. Your lack of knowledge is not applicable to professionals in the transportation industry. Hazmat is a term known by all pilots, truck drivers, cargo handlers, firefighters, emergency personnel, etc. It is a term used in the cargo trade and is a defined class of materials. "Dangerous goods" could be a Rottweiler with a bad attitude...
@@buckhorncortez i'm a pilot and dangerous goods is the international term. Look up Icao annex 18
The US has exceptions for so many aviation regulations and it poses a risk in international air travel due to misunderstandings.
@@Ululuro Uh huh. You're a "professional pilot" but you don't know terms used by the FAA? Okay. Let me help you. Hazardous materials are a specific class within "dangerous goods." Hazardous materials are defined in CFR 49 § 172.101 "Purpose and use of hazardous materials table." The FAA (you must know who they are) uses the Department of Transportation (DOT) definition that, in turn, uses the table found in 172.101. The firefighters are the ones that need to know and THEY use hazardous materials as their nomenclature for specific items that may be a potential threat during a fire. The other term used is "regulated items." However, the firefighters don't care about all of the regulated items and dangerous goods, only the hazardous materials that appear on the list in 172.101 - as that is what poses a direct threat to them while they're doing their job. I hope that clarifies WHY the controller asked for "HazMat" and NOT "dangerous goods."
@@buckhorncortez Are you aware that other countries do not have the FAA as their authority?
@@Ululuro In European and Australian airspace, shipping, and other organizations Hazmat is a used term for dangerous materials. Perhaps Asian or African airlines very well use another term. I am working in health care, and we use the term too.
First
you don't know if you have hazmat? honestly really irresponsible like figure out your manifest
Not a lot of time, they probably only looked at the manifest after they were asked (smoke checklist is pretty long; souls and fuel is way easier and quicker to find). Might have taken a bit to get it, its not neccessarily within reach. Probably looked at it before dep, remembered the dry ice and saw nothing concerning. And they figured it out in like 2-3min.
Is Hazmat even an official word? Dangerous goods is officially used. If they don't use the correct phrase it already takes some time to figure out what they mean
3L,9L
3=Flammable liquid or solid
9=No general inherent risk
L=Other risk low or none
dgsafety.com/images/Table4-1.pdf
Is that from icao annex 18?
@@FlyLeah Yes