Making A Narrow-Gauge Locomotive - PART TWO - Transmission (vee belt reverse drive)
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- More complicated than I'd expected - how to keep vee belts on their pulleys with enough friction to drive the wheels, but also slack enough to slide when needed. And also go from forwards to backwards gear...
This is the video that's featured in this one.. • First Start Of Old Bam...
As always, thanks to Will too for his general helpfulness and good humour.
Here's our main CZcams channel.. / wayoutwestx2
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SEAT? You are selling your soul for an office job? (grin)
Congratulations Tim, and Sandra-who-looks-after-Tim. This is, indeed, coming together.
(later) 11:43 ... and then you had your FIRST derailment - and no bystanders were injured! Well done!
Absolutely loving this build - it's fascinating but Will is "blink" welding at about 1:30, it's a recipe for blindness, don't risk it man it's just not worth it!!
It totally isn't a recipe for blindness, unless uv penetrates the eyelid which im not sure it does.
@@MegaApenstaartje Why risk it, just wear the damn protection.
@@MegaApenstaartje it's pretty obvious how little protection eyelids give from light when you close your eyes and look at the sun.
there is nothing manly or cool about not being safe.
Yes!
@@MegaApenstaartje It's a recipe for horrible sunburn.
With the large fly wheel and the assortment of levers to control it, this engine is looking more and more like one of Trevithick's steam engines.
Yes
i imagine he had a hard time determining which was the "front" end as well, even seeing the Puffing Devil in person, i am still not sure!
Perhaps try and make it have another cart that is attached that is just a boiler, so you get pressure everywhere you go.
that’s actually not a bad idea, then it could also act as a place to site since the engine itself takes up so much room
Or, alternatively, a vehicle to carry numerous compressed air tanks.
caractacus potts
This is a very very very good idea
I believe that already was the plan, with either a steam engine or a high pressure air tank
This is my favourite series on CZcams at the moment - so much "farmer ingenuity" combining to build something that really feels alive. Can't wait to see her puffing a load of chips up into the drying tunnel!
Yes, Tim and his family have lots of what we call "Cowboy Logic" //ji
Your front is absolutely correct. All the steam locomotives have the working parts up front and the engineer in the rear, so you are doing it right. (I like to forget all about those backwards diesel engines we have nowadays)
I worked on a rototiller the other day that had a very simple reversing mechanism. The engine shaft had a V-belt pulley and a tire, and the gearbox had a V-belt pulley and a smooth drum. The forward/reverse lever moved the engine up and down. Lifting the engine tensioned the belt and drove the gearbox one way. Lowering the engine slackened the belt and held the tire against the drum, driving the gearbox the other way. I imagine you could come up with a similar arrangement on a jackshaft and save yourself some complexity and belts rubbing against themselves.
I couldn't help thinking of those old troy-bilt horse models, too.
@@ignisfatuus I thought of that right away. I have one of those old Troy Bilt tillers, still use it every year for the garden.
The other thought I had was a snowblower drive.
The Plymouth Locomotive company made a series of "friction drive" small railroad locos from 1914 to 1936 the AL, BL, and CL types. They used a friction drive that was a large version of the drive that a lot of snowblowers use now.
Some low capacity petrol motors developed for bicycles in the 1950's had a small rubber roller driving directly onto the bicycle's front tyre. For neutral, the whole motor was raised up an inch off the tyre. You'd zoom forwards by lowering the weight of the motor onto the tyre again. As described by others here, a pulley would drive a wheel in reverse.
I bet you could rig up a single lever so that one direction pulls one pulley tight and the other pulls the other, backwards and forwards on a single lever - also meaning you can't engage both at the same time!
The brilliancy is all these things work at the end ! If Tim gets good milling and lathe machines , he might launch a ship to the space soon
This has to be about the jankiest, most cobbled together contraption I have ever seen and I think it's fabulous !
swapping the airlines from the two pneumatic cylinders would put it in reverse. They even make simple valves to do that. probably cheaper than the steel you cut up for the pulleys.
Great idea, that would even allow for regenerative braking, if you switch to reverse while rolling forward, the cylinders will pump air into the air tank. Ok, I'm pretty sure there is too much empty space in the hydraulic cylinders, so it won't reach enough pressure to fill the tank. You need to make a plastic spacer which fills the remaining space in the bottom of the cylinder when it is all the way in, that makes the whole engine way more efficient and also allows for regenerative braking
Great idea, another way would be to swap the intake and exhaust airlines of each cylinder. This would work for any angle between the cylinders and require less pipework, but would only work if the cams open the inlet and exhaust valves for the same amount of time.
@@chalichaligha3234 less power in reverse that way. Due to less square inch on that side of the cylinder
@@dave4882 No, I was using the assumption of a single acting engine; inlet and exhaust are on the same side of the cylinder. Sorry I didn't make that clear. Assuming that when one is open, the other is closed, swapping the lines should reverse the engine with identical characteristics as in forward right?
The technical requirement for this is that the valve timings need to open the inlet and exhaust for the same amount of time (symmetrical inlet/exhaust cutoff), but in addition they also need to be symmetrical with respect to forward and backward running. (angles of activation of both valve events symmetrical from TDC).
@@chalichaligha3234 ah. Swapping the inlet and exhaust of exhaust of each valve set. Yes, that would do it. The other thing with my way of cross connecting cylinders, is that by attaching the rod side with the non rod side of the opposite cylinder he already had the appropriate valve setup and gets more power out of it, but at the cost of using more air. Maybe thats a option for when he has a heavy load
Why does this give me the vibe of an engine from the Rainhill trials
Giant flywheel, lots of levers to control direction, Experimental technology....
Yes, Richard Trevithick would be proud!
Not really experimental. It is really old and proven mechanics. Only thing odd here being that it is running on compressed air and moving under it's own power. But it sure makes it be close to a steam engine without the heavy bulky steam parts! Makes a awesome sounds and really if only to be fun and cool it gets a 10/10. It should be a fun way to get stuff done.
@@TheDiner50 I didnt really mean it as it being a "new technology", but instead that its experimental to him, like it was with trevithicks train(s) and steam powered vehicles
The monster lives and breathes. Great work.
the design is pretty smart serving both reverse and clutch functions
Tim welding without safety gear could get your vids flagged by CZcams. All it takes is one viewer flagging one vid. Please be careful 😀 Eric.
They snitches for that, and you know what they say about snitches.
@@Machodave2020 They get flash burn from welding without a helmet? Lol
@@jeffreycutler7364 you know what, yeah, that's exactly what they get 😂
@@Machodave2020 …they never get caught because CZcams reports are anonymous. Good advice from OP
@@RMphy89 that makes sense actually.
She has an absolutely glorious clatter about her. And thank you for being one of the few on CZcams using the word palaver.
Thanks, Bernard : - )
Remember my words: in a year this guy would have his own built steam locomotive!
A year? He's already got a mostly working steam boiler design and his engine clearly works, even if it could always be improved further. I'd say half a year at most
Cheap and simple. Your a man after my own heart. Cheers J
I'm absolutely in no mood to drink now, but when time comes, I'm going to open a best 50-year whisky bottle I can afford and watch entire railroad series.
I uttered "WOW" aloud at least 5 times during this video, Tim. The video jump cuts between stages make it look easy, but I can't imagine how many hours of sketches, measurements, math, design, and experimenting happens between them. Bravo, sir. You 100% earned that slo-mo moment of celebration at the end!
I really enjoyed the clunking and clanking sounds during the slow motion replay at the end!...
Well I really enjoyed the whole video... but those sounds in the last part were supurb.
Try adding a headlight and a bell in the front for safety. You can in theory use a doorbell connected to a battery and a switch/button.
Can’t wait to see it fully running.
George Stephenson would have been proud of that. Great work.
This is the single most brilliant thing on CZcams. Thank you for keeping us all up to date on it! What kind of thing are you planning in the way of brakes for your beautiful contraption? And does she need a name yet?
Thanks, Chris - any suggestions?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 I like the idea of calling her 'Tenacity'. It suits your approach to building both this engine and the whole railway very well.
Ivor the engine
Larry the Loco
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 La Vida Loco
With the low traction of steel wheels on steel rails you should use the chain drive to tie both axles together.
My uncle had a narrow gauge railway before he died, he had some genius devices for it too, and I'll pass one of them on; place two levers at the end of the line, one off the end, one nestling between the rails, each with a prop stick, ideally attached. The car is place as close as possible to the end of the rails, with chocks placed behind the wheels, the lever between the rails is used to lift the front of the car, the prop stick is lowered to keep the car lifted and the car is pushed forward, the chocks are then moved forward, the front lever is lowered; the rear is lifted, the car usually slid forward from gravity but may need a bit of help, if it does make sure to prop up the lever, you only make that mistake once, and your car is now on the rails, with ease.
Also, the forward and reverse thing, we called "maker's word" aka it was what the maker said it was.
This is such a wonderfully outlandish machine. I love it.
4.38: good use of a medium sized finger-pulley there, although can be limited in high speed applications.
Marvellous stuff!
I don’t think he needs to go very fast! Going over those points quickly would be nerve-wracking
Was just to comment on that. Is the gearing not a bit to aggressive? I mean he said in the video that he was not running the pistons at full pressure and it looks to go quite fast. And when he did it by hand it looked like the gearing was really high! Look when he runs it under air power how hard it has to work to keep the flywheel moving! It slows down after every crank yet go at a decent speed. Looks underpowerd even just moving under it's own weight. Even when a steam engine is about to stall the pistons still manages to keep the rhythm close to intact for a reason. POWER! A tractor or train flywheel are meant to be going in a steady speed and not like it was in the video. No?
Have no clue but just what I think as a bystander. I love to see how it turns out! Good call to make it out of wood fist. I expected it needs to be allot slower but in turn it will be plenty enough torque even at low pressure. I mean the slower it can go the better for the clutch action to avoid slipping wearing it out. It is meant to pull stuff and it just looks to fast! Or rather the pistons are going to work way to much agents the gearing when pulling a load and so will only slip or stall. :c
Such a cool machine! The railway is awesome enough! But this thing is more interesting then people making talking moving robots!
Historically, the simplest form of pistons is the oscillating cylinder. Looking into it a little, I think this kind of piston/valve design could deffinately solve a lot of your problems. Perhaps if you plan to build a seperate steam engine, this would be a good way to go.
The reason this oscillating piston system wasnt done on steam locomotives is because of extreme vibration, but it was used extensively on steamships.
@@dakotaleker2885 Also because it's a "fixed cutoff" design, which means you can't change the relative timing and duration of steam admission on the fly. No problem for situations where the load is near constant, but for locomotives it's very inefficient.
@@cooperised Actually you can.
The main problem with oscillating piston engines is they are limited to 40 psi otherwise the pressure blows the cylinder off the port.
The ones used on ships actually had a slide valve mounted on the cylinder (which made for a steam pipe that required constant attention to keep sealed)
The main reason they were used was they are much more compact than a conventional steam engine.
@@pvtimberfaller That's interesting, I've never come across a variable cutoff oscillating design. If a separate cutoff slide valve was required in addition to the oscillating ports, did that eat into the size advantage? Can you direct me to a drawing of one?
The issue with oscillating engines is because there isn't a valve, the piston is only powered on the extend stroke instead of the extend and retract. They are much less powerful than regular steam engines.
Cracking job, this "locomotive" needs a driver wearing a top hat and a man with a red flag walking in front, I love you inventiveness, I am always full of anticipation when I see a new video, thank you, regarding driver position, the ideal is to use your full body weight to help with the tractive effort, however there is not much room left on your loco so a suggestion is to use a single axle under a seat like the old sit & ride lawnmowers and make the coupling to the loco somewhere near the middle so it transfers some of your body weight to the loco.
Interesting idea. Thanks
Ju can just let the seat hang out behind the rear wheels of the loco, as long as the loco has enough weight so it doesn't tip over.
Oh how I wish I had a large enough plot of land, like a whole farm 😂, just so I could have a field railway. Oh well I can still dream I spose. I must say tho I love these videos
this looks just like a very old steam engine, and i imagine built and tinkered together just like they were too, i love it, and this series
One of your older videos had a comment on it that said you were taking your tiny corner of rural Ireland through the industrial revolution and it's just...true...
I only wish I lived in your neighborhood. I love the way your team pushes threw each project. Keep up the great work.
This slow motion moment when the engine tries to get back on the rails, it heard for me like a real steam train
You should be able to devise a single lever system, pull one way for forward, the other for reverse. A simple rocker system for the idler pulleys. Thanks for the video. Jon
Heath Robinson would be proud! It's coming on nicely.
I love your solution! At first I thought "build a transmission, man, you know you want to!", but when you added the lever and then one more, I don't need no damn transmission! Lovely. And the sounds she makes, a machine goddess! Maybe Goddess should be her name? Nah, too much :^)
Watching you build your drive train, no pun intended, reminds me of a lot of what I've read over the years about early loco builders in the UK and their by gosh, by golly engineering. Well done!!
love this channel. My wife will be calling to complain about the ideas you are putting into my head.
Looks like we have a late entry to the Rainhill trials. Is compressed airpunk a thing? Awesome job!
A recommendation I have is adding side rods to the wheels. This allows the loco's engine to distribute its pulling power in all 4 wheels rather than just two
Good idea in principle, but with the pulley/belt drives, you’d have to have one side rod outboard of the drive pulleys, which would then make it tricky to change belts when needed. Could have a chain and sprockets or another belt drive on the opposite side, though.
@@emmajacobs5575 true. But what if there was a way to relocate the drive belt to the inner side of the axil?
Bravo, Tim! It's almost like a re-creation of some of the very earliest steam engines, in style, speed and noises. I'm impressed with the apparent power of the air engine.
Wow. It even sounds like a steam engine.
You said, 'it's simple and cheap, just like me..' I died. I'm the same way!
It's refreshing to watch you build things.
'low tech / easy to explain-understand
You sir are an example of a limited budget being the FATHER of invention. Please run my factory for me.
A parking brake and a seat and you've got yourself a fully-featured narrow-gauge locomotive right there! Very nice. Looking forward to the next video.
Magically starts a railway after great success with the locomotive
I've watched this entire series from your first railway track all the way up to now and I'm amazed by your ingenuity! This contraption of a locomotive of yours is just incredible! I've started using your methods to make a similar 15 inch gauge railway of my own for hauling firewood on my property around and it's working wonders for me so far! Keep up the amazing work!
Oh, well done! Addictive though, isn't it?!
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Very! Experimenting is always a good way to spend an afternoon!
Connect both clutches to a single lever, if you push the lever forward, the forward clutch engages, if you push the lever backwards, the reverse clutch engages...
I love the belt drive arrangement. Can't help thinking that some kind of valve reverse would end up simpler in the end though, as well as more compact. Steam engines shouldn't need clutches!
Steam engines have almost always had clutches tho? That way you don't need to kill all your power just because you are in a station, or when firing up an engine it's easier to speed up just the engine before trying to get it to power anything. Some high power mountain trains have an entire heavy duty gear box between the engine and the wheels
@@mickys8065 No types of steam railway locomotives that I can think of (and I can think of a good few!) ever had clutches. That's not to say that there wasn't one somewhere, of course. But steam engines generate full torque from zero speed so you just don't need clutches. Conventional locomotives (whether standard gauge, narrow gauge, miniature, or whatever) connect the pistons direct to the wheels via rods. There have been various geared steam loco designs like the Shay, the Climax, and a small number of UK shunting locomotives and railcars - but still none with clutches to my knowledge. It's just unnecessary complexity.
@@mickys8065 The closest I can think of is roadgoing steam traction engines, which had clutches so that they could use their steam engines to power auxiliary equipment while stationary.
@@cooperised apologies, you are correct with the clutch. I believe I must've gotten confused between an actual clutch and letting the boiler build up steam without directing the steam into the pistons.
Trevethick would be very proud of you
Really nice design. Great form of rods and pistons with unique drive sequence. For track use, could use a small tender with an air compressor for continueous operation and a seat to ride on
These video’s remind me of one of my childhood books. I’m going to try to find a copy
That capstan on the Range Rover is awesome! I’ve never seen that before
Wow you've outdone yourself on this build. What a contraption! It's clearly living and breathing, and you've just called it a "she", so perhaps she'll get a name soon?... and maybe even a smiley face on the um... front?
I am pleased you are using compressed air and not steam.
Steam has been done to death.
Compressed air seems more original.
☮
Some impressive engineering here. We need to get Colin Furze down to have a look at this it's pretty awesome (and you deserve a place amongst the bigger engineering CZcams creators)
only recently found your channel. I have to say im loving the content.
Hi Tim, it’s really refreshing to watch something so unique on CZcams, keep it up, love to you and Sandra
I think a rear articulated wagon is in order for the seat, plus you could keep tools there too. Once again you astound me, with a transmission much simpler than what I could come up with!
That's where the air tank should go, too
@@burdizdawurd1516Official In his previous illustrations he stuck the air tank under the frame of the flywheel
I suppose the "tender" would be the next best location if it doesn't fit
Tim build a small tender , put multiple air bottles in the tender. You will increase the operating range and have more air to add when more power is needed. Hope this helps you out.
For
If you were simple and cheap you wouldn’t be making a locomotive! Lol. Thanks for the videos! 👍😄
Wonderful to see this build progress! Depending on the air tank you will use for the loco, you might consider putting it on its own wagon and linking it to the main loco, much like a coal tender but for air instead. That will leave room for a driver seat in between where you had planned for it.
And you could even link up more air tanks on more wagons to give the loco a bigger supply to go faster or farther. Then you don't have to worry about getting one big tank, but can get smaller ones as money becomes available
It is so much fun to watch this project develop. Thank you Tim for sharing this with us!
This really resembles on of the first steam locomotives ever mad. It had lots of gears and a huge flywheel.
Loving your engine. It looks very George Stephenson. I am reminded of the Rainhill Trials.
Loved the video, I think maybe a second car behind the engine as place to sit would possibly be a good option as it would allow space for you to make changes to the current locomotive to overcome any challenges with performance and ensure that it is well balanced. I think the pulley system is great, you might lose some performance in comparison to a chain but the added benefit of going back and forward without a gearbox system makes it better.
Absolutely brilliant, bonkers but i can't not be impressed with your creativity. Well done and I can't wait to see it finished and working.
Lovely contraption! Also makes me think of Trevithick's design.
Super job! I could see both control levers attached to opposite sides of the same oblongish cam lobe on a single upright lever. As one relaxes the other tensions. the lobe itself is adjustable up and down the common lever for tensioning.
The profile reminds me of something Trevithick would have created. Very satisfying to watch your progress.
I knew no matter how fast I was, somebody would beat me to "Rube Goldberg".
He may however be known only to us Americans.
If Tim googles it though, we're dead!
I love these videos and my hat is always off to anyone who has his own plasma cutter.
This is how Elon Musk got started. . . . . . //ji
His British cousin is called Heath Robinson !
@@graemewhite5029 ok, I will have to google that I guess. //ji
it's looking good! love seeing all the trials and errors! always interesting! I might mention being quite safety cautious about things 1:38 Wear your protective gear! its a recipe to disaster and not worth risking. So Wear the PPE don't take that risk. anyways great video as always and can't wait to see this on the iron road eventually!
Hello from Detroit Michigan USA Great video Brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise
Only you would make v-pulleys with a plasma cutter. lol I love it.
This is craziness of a particularly high order. But do carry on you magnificent bastard.
what fun..great build
Excellent. Some rototillers use a belt/twisted belt reverse, usually a lever pulling the twisted belt for reverse, sliding through neutral, and then push forward to tighten the other belt using two moveable pulleys. Make it easier, just hook it up with everything on both the "intake" and "exhaust" ports, add some extra plumbing, and viola, you can put the air (steam💙) in either side, letting you go in reverse. Good luck. 💙 T.E.N.
P.S. I used two drill press pulleys on my go-kart, four different sizes on each pulley, four different belts, one twisted, and four tightening pulleys hooked to four pedals. Push and hold any one pedal, so I had three "gears" forward and one "gear" in reverse. It worked pretty well, but if the belts got wet, the unused belts got an attitude, and also the wear was pretty severe, especially on and between the first gear belt and the the twisted reverse belt. 💙 T.E.N.
That sounds spectacular - well done. Do you think my belts will wear out too then? Or were yours rubbing more?
The "low" and "reverse" belts rubbed each other. I should have used a deep pulley to help keep them in line, but the local store only had flat idler pulleys. However, on the second and third "gears" I had minimal issues. 💙 T.E.N.
WELL DONE. REGARDS RICHARD.
This reminds me of Richard Trevithick 1802 Coalbrookdale locomotive!
Found your channel about a week ago, such brilliant stuff! Almost makes me want to build my own railway, though it's not feasible lol. Keep up the great content! I'd love to see this little railway in action!
A real milestone Tim! Congratulations.
3 Hours Ago when the video is uploaded and I saw it, your videos about trains are intresting to watch even if it is boring as crap.
Just love watching Tim with his inventions we love Ireland 🇮🇪 Will be watching on later after a stressful day.We would love to live in Ireland 🇮🇪 Irelands.Good luck 🍀
This is looking absolutely AMAZING!! If I could make a suggestion for your forward/reverse lever system? Would it be possible to streamline this by using one lever next to your seating arrangement, that when verticle would be neutral, pushed forward = forwards and pulled backwards = reverse?
To do this, I'd use three 9mm rods (two of longer length that would connect to their corresponding tension pulley) and one that connects from the main drive lever to a smaller lever that, when pushed, changes the input direction to a pulling motion.
The goal would be that no matter what way you moved the drive lever to engage the belts it would always be pulling tension on the selected one.
If you'd like, I can post a video of what I'm describing on my CZcams channel. Good luck on however you choose to continue on your project, and keep up the good work!
Please, post it anyway and include a link, all this type of stuff is fascinating
Thanks, Gabriel - yes, post one anyway and send us a link.
Indeed I shall! I'm sooo sorry for the delay! I'll get right in it and have it posted in the next day the latest.
Here's the link:
m.czcams.com/video/3twp7onLqiA/video.html
this is so wholesome, its now one of my favorite channels.
do you think the belt will wear quickly rubbing against itself? 🤔
It's a fun experiment Tim. Nice to see it rolling along the rails. Well done
You should look into how sawmills move the log carriage. The saw shaft always spins one way but the carriage goes back and forth.
Your locomotive needs a name! 🙂
It works bro that was your goal so pat yaself on the back. I am sure you will come up with one lever that handles both directions. Safe travels
And, what's more it all sounds right as it moves!
I agree that what you said is forward, is forward. Reason being, all steam locomotives ive ever seen have the personal space in the rear.
I did a similar reverse drive when I put a large induction motor on my old drill because it was spinning the ring way. However I added a bearing spindle were the v belt crosses so it didn't wear out the belt from rubbing against itself.
Looks like W.o.W. No. 1's coming along nicely!
You are so clever! Can’t wait to see the finished project!
I love the simplestity of it but if the simplest ide works then there's no need to make it more complicated than necessary.
I've had quite good luck wrapping rags soaked in Cool water around bearings when I need to weld nearby. Even if you're using old fashioned bearings where there is no plastic to melt, it is still easy to ruin them. The slag and smoke seem to get into every tiny nook and cranny