Testing Cheap Lithium Batteries Against Competition - Lithium Battery Secrets Revealed!
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Is a higher-quality lithium battery worth paying for, or is a cheap Chinese alternative good enough and safe? Today, we're testing drop-in lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries to find out. We'll be tearing down and rigorously testing five different battery brands, representing a variety of designs and cell types.
Battle Born 🆚 Dakota 🆚 Lion 🆚 Renogy 🆚 LiTime
This is a head-to-head comparison with lots of charts, data, and insights on reliability, safety, and longevity. All tests are conducted independently in my shop with my equipment, but full disclosure, Battle Born Batteries has been a long-time channel sponsor. Stay tuned for some technical deep dives and practical conclusions to help you decide if paying more for a higher-quality battery is truly worth it.
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Read the summary and get the actual run data on our site!
www.mortonsonthemove.com/quality-vs-budget-battery-testing/
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Like this comment if you want to see a epoch (roypow) vs battleborn comparison by the mortons!
Battleborn when up in price while the other brands seem to be dropping in price. A epoch showdown would be great. Thanks
As recommended by Will Prowse, I installed 4 x 230Ah LiTime batteries in my coach a year ago. I used the original inverter, wiring and so on, and think these batteries are a great value. My 2014 Newmar Dutch Star will take this battery bank down to 94% SOC after 6 hours of use, without the AC running (that's why there's a 10kw genset onboard). FYI - my alternator is disconnected from the house batteries and only charges the chassis batteries now. I use a Victron battery shunt to get SOC and real time use. The original Magnum Energy inverter charger handles the recharging really well using a custom charge strategy. My entire installation cost (I did the install) just a bit over $2600, all materials including the tools to crimp and cut correctly, and the bus system. We are full time RVers touring the US for two years and these batteries have worked flawlessly. I also saved serious coin over the Battleborn quote they provided. Thanks again Will.
Thanks for the breakdown. I purchased a Battleborn years ago and several other brands since. I've felt like a fool for paying so much money per AH on the Battleborn but maybe, over time, it'll prove to be worth it. I doubt it though, because I can by four of the LiTime's for the same price.
Thanks for your testing significantly more aspects of some LiFePO4 batteries than I have seen before.
In particular, how well the included BMS handled a direct short. I even called Battleborn, about the subject and did not get good info. In fact, I configured my system with a Class T fuse because of the lack of good info from the battery manufacturers on shorts.
Well while they should be able to handle shorts the BMS should not be the primary protection, so your fuse is a good choice. Fast acting might not be required however. As you add batteries the current required to cutout the batteries increases, so at some point you will almost have no protection for your circuit. Individual batteries, yes to protect the cells. I usually go with basic ANL or Mega fuses, arc flash, and incident energies are usually not high enough to warrant low peak.
@@MortonsontheMove As you may know, Class T fuses' superpower is not that they are fast acting; it's that they will quench a likely standing arc from a DC short.
They have a cool design. They route the fuse wire through a cup of sand.
I have 400ah of Battle Born and 1600ah of LiTime in my expedition rig. Neither of them have low temp protection. That protection is easily taken care of by simply keeping them warm with a thermostat.
Let's do some math.
The BB comes with a ten year warranty. At $3600 for 400ah, that means, worst case scenario I can drive my rig for 30 years at a cost of $10,800/400ah.
A LiTime 400ah battery costs $1300 and comes with a 5 year warranty. Over 30 years, worst case scenario it's cost me $7800.
That's nearly 1/3 less in cost, over 30 years.
For what? So I can have Chinese components that were "assembled" in America?
I get it, America doesn't make any components anymore, and they have to come from China. But is it worth an extra 1/3 to have someone "assemble" the components here?
It's lots more than that I recommend you watch the entire conclusion to see how they really stack up. I'll be very curious to hear about your reliability and performance over the time owning your batteries. It's impossible for me to know actual long-term performance but The upfront testing shows less reliability.
@@MortonsontheMove The BB's have been installed four years and the AmperTime have been in two. I've watched your videos from the beginning and thank you guys for your entertaining and informative work. We're full time for five years now. We designed our rig for heavy off-road, and that's what we do. So far both battery banks have performed well. I did watch the entire video, and have some small concern about the issue with the shorting test. Time will tell.
@@MortonsontheMove naw not really
Great video. I loved nerding out along with you, Tom 👍
Lol, thanks! :)
As an engineer who retired from the battery industry a couple years ago, I was thrilled to see a comprehensive test of large format lithium ion batteries. The comparison showed me that only 2 of them are safe enough to use in an RV that I would feel safe sleeping in. American made wins again.
I have 2 issues with safety during your test process.
1) TAKE OFF YOUR RING
2) Use metal barriers around the UUT. Having been around when one of those cells let's the magic smoke out and ignites, I can tell you your lab space will stink forever and you cannot get out of the way fast enough. All batteries should be treated with some trepidation.
Extremely important and relevant in dept review.
Please do a follow up with other pertinent batteries.
IMO, these should be tested:
Big Beard
ORION
EPOCH
ROCKSOLAR
This is good information on certification( UL Intek). Many people don't know that if a fire is caused by a non-certified product, insurance companies will not cover the fire damage.
How are they gonna know if it's all burned lol
Thoughts on Epoch LifePO4 Batteries?
Looking forward to your “Part two” when you have it. I wish I had seen this before I bought my last set of Lithiums. No one has explained the differences and protective BMS info like you have THANKYOU! 🇨🇦
I have one 12v system using 4 Eve 280 ah batteries. Been through 3 bms modules and finally ditched bms entirely. Works so much better. Thanks for pointing out that a bms isn’t necessary if you monitor your batteries closely. Am in need of replacing my 48 system lead acid batteries.
Loved your New Zealand videos, and your video reminiscent of it all.
Keep up your fine work.👍🏻
I'm not sure what you mean on "monitor closely," but I see a BMS adding value.
1) Real-time monitoring temperature, current and maybe voltage provide safety to both the battery and you.
2) While a very well matched set of cells in series may not need to be balanced all the time, they still will need to be balanced.
What was wrong with yours?
I wouldn’t see a need to get rid of the BMS. It adds protection and balance to the system. Buy a quality BMS and you’ll do just fine. You must have been using Daly’s. I hate those.
Great video, best in-depth video I've seen on the current construction of the lithium batteries on the market today. I'm a retired Ford Electrical Controls Engineer, and I'll be watching it serval times in order to adsorb all the information you have presented. Tom, please tell me that is a non metallic ring you are wearing in the video.
Thanks! And yes it is a plastic smart ring, only wear plastic or silicone.
Nobody better than Tom to analyze complex technology!
Thanks guys! Put a lot of time into his one to get it right!
I wish you had the Renogy Pro (BT heated), supposed to compare to lion and BB
Tom, your conclusions seem to be at odds with other's regarding LiTime batteries, specifically Will Prowse. LiTime is his recommended low cost battery and I don't think he makes recommendations lightly. No I don't think you are in Battle Born's pocket or anything like that, but I do find it interesting that you basically say that LiTime is junk and that Will Prowse recommends them. Any comments? BTW this is important to me as I'm thinking seriously about going with lithium in my RV and was looking hard at LiTime and Redodo but I may have to rethink that.
My 2 cents : Will Prowse is a very serious tester and very knowledgeable. I have been using 2 rackmount EG4 Batteries (10.4 KWH total) for 3 years. I also have 2600 watts of solar panels on the roof. They are recommended by Will Prowse and couldn’t be happier.
Not saying they're junk, just honest testing. They do make their ratings up front and I know others do load testing like I did. I just have other concerns as found in the video. I don't have anything against Will or others testing on CZcams but I do know they have affiliate relationships and make a lot of money selling those batteries. I make almost nothing on battery sales this is strictly informational.
I’m going to weigh in on this one. First off, kudos on letting everyone know indirectly that all batteries and BMS are made in China. Many people believe when they buy a Battle Born, it’s American. Assembled in the US only. As an electronic technician I choose to buy my own grade A prismatic cells, case, and BMS. That way I could very well control the quality and the ability to manage the BMS is incredible compared to a BB or Lithionics. I built a 604Ah system for about the price of one 100Ah Battle Born and overkilled everything. BTW, not impressed with any BMS using soldered connections on outputs.
Thank God, If you are not an Electronic Engineer you certainly know your stuff.
Your testing methodology was good and your statement about having cheap Grade B cells causing larger issues as time passes is100% true. I loved the fact that you used an Oscilloscopes trigger properly and had it capture the shutdown point. I am now subscribed Sir :) I really hope you can do a video on 48V LFP packs.
Kind of neat to see that cutout right! I knew there would be a flyback and wanted to see what it looked like.
Incredible breakdown and testing - thank you!
Over seven years on my GBS/Elite Power systems lithium batts. Still going strong although I did have to replace a sense board this year. Back then there weren't many options for RV installs. Do you know if those are prismatic or cylindrical cells?
Exceptional! Thanks for doing the testing and sharing the process. After some research a few years back I went with Battleborn. You just reaffirmed my decision!
Here is the thing. We are putting these things in our RV's where we and our families sleep and live. Perhaps, at times, a knock off might do as well for less money, BUT ... what about the safety down the road. If these batteries are to last the best part of 10 years and are built with less durable components in a sketchy factory somewhere what is the chance of a fire that you can't some horrible night.
We all buy cheap stuff sometimes, but I think there are times when, given all the factors, you just need to open your wallet and pay for quality.
Except battleborn only a precieved quality because of the price. There are may design flaws and i have seen multiple catch fire.
The location of the cold temperature inhibit sensor is important. When using a thermocouple to measure battery temperature, you should insulate the sensor from ambient air. I added layers of high temp cloth tape for surveys. I don’t think that an external sensor could sense the inside of a 4 prismatic cell block from the outside. The inside center of the middle 2 cells could have been cold soaked and way colder than the uninsulated external temp sensor. Maybe the BMS could use historical measurements the thermal mass to estimate the internal temperatures…. I doubt that.
Nope doubt it, I think it is a straight cutout and in on all these batts... good point tho!
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Although technically equivalent, multiple wires in parallel are not as good as a single wire. From a PFMEA and DFMEA perspective it's nearly impossible to test in parallel wires in a factory environment. What if one or two wires or connector were not assembled correctly or built with incorrect or defective wire? You might only find the issue in the field as the remaining in parallel wires failed due to excess current.
thank you for the info! fasinating :)
Im just barely in this game. I have three 24v, 100a EnjoyBot batteries, couldnt find a fourth one, so I used a LiTime battery. Each one cost $529. They only had five left. I used to have lead acid batteries, but I started changing them out in November, and I have had the LiTime battery for a month. I would like to add four more batteries, but by the time I can afford them, they'll probably be gone. I was trying to avoid using 12 v batteries or cutting a 48 v battery in half. My original plan was to use eight 24 v batteries, but they're getting scarce, for some reason. I guess they will figure out that not everyone can afford a 48 volts system at some point. I bought four series 31 lead acid batteries which are parallelled to the 24 v batteries for a buffer, so nothing will charge too fast. They have been hooked up like that since November, without any issues. Yesterday it rained all day, this morning the voltage was 25.9 v. The lead acid batteries get pushed up to 26.6 v every day, two pairs in series. The lithium batteries sort of hold them there, as long as they can. The other twelve deep cycle batteries are on my wind generator, which has its own inverter. I connect either two or four one hundred watts solar panels to those batteries when its not very windy. I have 600 amp hours on the solar part. Adding four batteries would put me at 1000 amp hours, which should be about right. I have 1200 amp hours on the wind generator. What usually happens is, when the sun isnt out much, its usually windy. Its usually both though. There was a small tornado near here in May, ripped the tail in two, so I cut another one from the lid of an old amplifier. I used two pieces of linkage from an old recliner to strap it back on to the little pipe they old tail had been riveted to. Its stronger, steel versus the aluminum it was before. It works better than it did before. I use it more in the winter, but the coffeepot is still plugged into it now. Well, thanks for the look inside.
One conclusion I get from your testing is that a battery is composed of 2 separable components.
First, the function and quality of the BMS drives the safety of the battery.
Second, the cells being matched drives the cycle longevity of the battery.
As for the second, I suggest that the longevity of even the least expensive batteries is more than sufficient for most non-commercial applications.
The first time I have even seen any type of a review on the Dakota battery. Glad I never bought one. First time I have seen the renogy too. Pretty sure it was the first time I have seen the insides of a battle born.
Lifepo4 batteries are much better than lead-acid batteries,what do you think?
Massivly so in every way (for storage) dont expect it to operate in an engine starting eviornment well tho.
I’m curious, what kind of results you got from SOK?
Did I test SOK?
@@MortonsontheMove
Sorry, I wasn’t clear enough. I bought some SOK’s, so I’m just wondering how good they really are?
Do any of these batteries come with active cell balancer? Hm I guess not, therefore I recommend to build your own. You can build 300ah for $900,- using good quality components.
Nothing like a large dose of obvious bias and comparing apples to oranges
When in doubt, pull out the trusty apples to oranges comparison remark... there is no bias in the results, you make up your own mind.
@MortonsontheMove top tier massively expensive verse a discount battery that isn't even their top model is apples and oranges. Saying a test failed because you chose to not purchase the model of that brand with the option is apples and oranges. Potentially damaging a BMS in a first test and saying the later tests don't pass is apples and oranges. Yes I am talking about the Li Time you aren't paid to hype vs the battle born you are paid to hype. Note- I have no affiliation with any product so no skin in the game.
Brilliant analysis, Tom. The cheap Chinese battery manufacturers constantly try to give me batts to 'review.' I'm a fan of BB batts and used them in my class A and in the Truck Camper I am just finishing the restoration series on my channel. I'll be referring anyone who asks me about Lithium batts to this video. Can't wait to see you let the magic smoke out of them in the next video.
So Many Numbers , spoken Into Fractions
how did you get this level of energy to test at this level😅
Lol to be honest i planned it out, and part way through I was like, what am i doing!!, had to finish at that point tho!
Thanks for the education and confirming my choice of Battle Born GC3s (3 of them).
Wow, absolutely amazing video. Thank you for all your hard work that you do for the rv community.
Glad you enjoyed it, lots to learn here for sure!
Darn! I bought 6 of the LiTime batteries for my golf cart, mainly because the Battle Born 100Ah batteries just are a tiny bit too large to fit in the battery set-up on it. Looks like I may need to save up for something else.
We actually don't run the golf cart that much, nor take it below 50% Capacity. Hoping these batteries will still last a good while.
Well, if you're not charging and discharging hard or using it a ton it's also not a critical so maybe not the worst choice.
how anyone could go for a cheap Chinese stacked in your house on wheels won't stop baffling me ...