The Secrets Of A Compound Radius... Matt Finally Gives In
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- čas přidán 3. 02. 2019
- If you have been following the Texas Toast Channel for a little while you might have heard us talk about how we don’t use the “Compound Radius” fretboard but we haven’t really done a deep dive as to the reasons. We decided that it was time to answer all y’all’s questions in a series of several videos and wrap the whole thing up, with a nice little bow, in a live Q&A. These are quickly becoming Matt’s favorite videos to do so you can expect to see a lot more of them.
Anyway, we needed some visual aids and thought we would test out the Grizzly radius sander in the process. See all the action unfold right before your very eyes.
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Jackson fretboard have been 12-16 inch radius forever and play great. I don't know how they do it but it is perfect. Great work dudes!!
Thanks for watching Jack, I was actually kinda bummed out it was that easy.
This is the first time I've been able to finish watching a video regarding compound radius.
I don't feel the need to have compound radius on my guitars, so my interest is mainly academic.
Watching other CZcams presenters talk the concept to death before getting around to actually demonstrating technique always led me to click away.
This video got right to the point.
Thanks for the video. Does the fret board get thinner at the bridge end as it seems it would have to be pushed down more into the sander with the radius being longer at that end and the belt being flat. Perplexing!
Cheers.
Hi Troy,
thanks for watching. The machine can be adjusted to minimize this kinda thing. Actually the compound radius will eliminate some of that since the wider portion has less radius. You can get the fretboard perfect with this tool with a little bit of tweaking.
Congrats on being able to do it !! :)
TOO EASY DRILL SARGENT, TOO EASY!
Eeeyy Matt is back!!!! Thank god!!!
Thanks brotherman
Now that was cool, It works and at first glance I didn’t think that would but.. after drawing some things out on paper, and considering the way you have your machine set up, it had to work. Pretty slick! Buddy
I was actually kinda bummed out that it worked as easily as it did. The jig was moving all over and I wasn't sure.
That’s interesting too. The video didn’t show the movement. I’m sure it only worked so well because of your steady trained hands... Doh! 👍🏼
I always wondered how that was done. You made it look easy. Nice!👍😎🎸🎶
I was actually kinda bummed out it was that easy. A little anti-climatic if you ask me hahaha
@@TexasToastGuitars lol...ya I thought there would be tons of hand sanding, but there wasn't. Pretty cool!👍😎🎸🎶
hand sanding sucks the life out of a man
@@TexasToastGuitars lmao! It sure does!😂
There are a few ways of doing this. This way was quick easy and eliminates the sudden jumps to flatter fretting. It is the smooth way as each fret is slightly flatter. The way to go I would say.
If you split that neck would it be a Compound Fracture?
Get out!
YES!
I actually do want to break this neck. I still think the compound radius is lame hahaha
Awesome job! Every other video I’ve watched,they do it the same way you did. Although I think most compound radius boards only go from 12 to 14,or 12 to 16 in. radii. I may be wrong but I don’t remember ever seeing a board go from 10 to 16 or anywhere near that extreme. Glad to see you finally caved in though. Lol
I was actually kinda bummed out it was that easy. A little anti-climatic if you ask me hahaha
I don't see offering this as a standard option anytime soon. It is a lot of over-engineering for a whole lot of nothing... if you ask me
Most Warmoth necks are 10 - 16" radius. Suhr uses 10-14".
Good job.
Thanks for watching Allen, I was actually kinda bummed out it was that easy. A little anti-climatic if you ask me hahaha
Pretty slick!
Thanks Ken, I was actually kinda bummed out it was that easy. A little anti-climatic if you ask me hahaha
Sure as hell easier than a sanding block. That shit will wear you out. Great video.
Yeah, I will not radius with a block anymore. I have done too many and life is too short
Excellent. You have a compound radius on your fret board. How do you bend the fret wire for fretting? I've always wanted to know.
Beats me, I guess I would just over bend the wire and mash them in. The differences are really minimal and you could probably just wing it and be good to go
@@TexasToastGuitars Someone I know who frets quite a lot of compound radius with stainless steel frets radiuses batches for the different radii for the different frets. Winging it with nickel frets might be OK but not with stainless.
cool dude
I've only done two compound radius necks and they were sanded by hand cause I don't do enough to make it worth buying the jig. I don't really see the point but I don't shred and I don't have scalloped fretboards either. But the machine worked well, awesome! Glade you made it back from NAMM safe, how'd the meet and greet go?
I was actually kinda bummed out it was that easy. A little anti-climatic if you ask me hahaha
You are skipping ahead to video number 2... it is uploading right now. The meet & greet was a blast
To use this machine do you have to start with fb thickness of 5/16" + if you have only 1/4" blanks how much thinner would your board end up?
Yes, we start with a 5/16 fretboard blank. You can do it with a 1/4 but it isn't as classy looking as a nice thick board. We have done stuff like glue contrasting woods together to get the 5/16 and a cool effect. We did that on the GWE guitar
How is that neck attached to that radius swing? Is there some type of vacuum system or is it screwed on?
We use screws or 2x tape
Making anything with a compound anything usually sucks! That being said the radiusing jig did a nice job. I believe the word you were looking for was "uprights" when describing the adjustments needed to make this happen. Nice to know that they can be adjusted independently. I thought you were going to have to tilt the whole rig, either the jig or the sander. Looking forward to the Q & A.
I was actually kinda bummed out it was that easy.
I always get flummoxed by technical terms
@@TexasToastGuitars I'm looking forward to the fret leveling and dressing.
Yeah, you probably won't see that. The idea here is to convince people that is over-engineering and unnecessary
How do you final sand the neck with so many degrees of radius? Do you just use a very fine belt on the Grizzly?
That is one way to go. We usually clean up the wood with a razor after the frets are installed. Thanks for watching Sean
10 inch radius to 12 inch is my favourite, you can do it by hand on a belt sander if your carefull
Adding more options! That’s great.
That said, you might just be compounding your problems.
😏
I don't see this becoming a standard option, it's so much over engineering to achieve a theoretical advantage. If someone wants it I'll be happy to charge them extra hahaha
How do you figure what sizes you want for the neck
Well that's the big question isn't it.
Figuring that out will have to be based on the needs of every single guitar player in the world.
Sometimes you'll get it right sometimes you'll get it wrong.
Guitar players are a tricky bunch to figure out
Someone else got it here, it’s always called compound but its conical. There’s math to it to; something like the ratio or fraction that the spacing gets wider from the nut to the bridge has to do with the amount the radius expands as you go up the fretboard.
I put an extreme one on my white Jem 505, started at about 16” and wound up near 20”. Although it seems like that would be crazy flat, it definitely had an effect (in a good way) on the action of the guitar. It’s crazy low, notes bend forever without fretting out, and has crazy fast feel to it.
I would love to try some more standard numbers like 10”-14” or 12”-16. Definitely interested in this
That's why there are 31 flavors my friend. I think most of the really screaming fast guys like a pretty flat board too. People seem to be interested in this topic so I wanted to make more than just one video on it.
20'' radius is what Holdsworth liked. The further you go up, there is so little change, it's almost as flat as our earth^^.
From head stock, the radius small to large or large to small?
10" at the nut and 16" at the 22nd fret
Wow! Where can i get a jig system like that? That's genius!
The rig is from Grizzly. I had a machinist make the custom part, you could easily find someone skilled enough when you live to pull it off. The guy who made it for me is kind of a dweeb hahahaha
@@TexasToastGuitars , Send the dweeb here in Finland :D Well anyway, thanks for the answer, i appreciate. Gotta have one of those. Do you know is there drawings for something like that in the net? That would be awesome 'cos with that you can make any fretboard and don't need tens of jigs around the house.
Dude, I have to explain myself. It's not the thing I wanna do, it's the thing some customers are determined to do. For me 12" is always just fine all along the fretboard 😊
We use 10 on everything we can... unless someone wants us to use a bridge with a 12" radius... like a TOM. I see no reason to do a compound radius and generally talk people out of it. It is a bunch of useless theory and over engineering... as far as I'm concerned
@@TexasToastGuitars That's what I usually try to do - talk people out of it. But sometimes you're dealing with homegrown Vai-wannabe, and there's nothing you can do about it....
Not that it matters much but the neck should be parallel to the sander. You don't want a parabolic fret, or maybe you do? Keep up the great videos! I have made a tool for sanding a fretboard that is conical.
Thanks for the critique Ken, I'm too stupid to know what parabolic meant so I had to look it up.
We have never had any issues with U shaped spots. Maybe you mean something else... see above about how stupid I am and try to use small words.
We get several questions about why the rig is set at an angle.
I’m not that smart either but years ago I got to start thinking about violin family fingerboard and bridge relationship. So I looked up a lot of stuff.
But regarding your set up. One edge of your fretboard touches the sander “farther up the cone” than the other. Although it is only a small amount, it results in a non-circular curve at each fret position. Again very subtle and not significant practically.
I still don't understand Ken... which, of course, shouldn't surprise anyone. The angle of the fixture is still hitting the platen of the sander the same way as if the unit was parallel to it. We have not experienced any issues but will continue to look at our fretboards with the gauges we have at our disposal for inconsistencies.
We try to pay attention to as many details as is practically possible to avoid stacking tolerances... However, it is very easy to get hung up on insignificant things. This is kind of the exact reason we are doing a video series on compound radius and why we don't use them The theory doesn't match the real world facts as far as I am concerned, your millage may vary?
I don’t use the compound radius either on guitars. Also I didn’t mean to imply your regular fretboards had a parabolic shape only that when doing the compound type, which you were demonstrating in this video would. And it seems I was wrong. It looks good from the video that your method has got the shape correct. Mic the nut end edge on right and compare to left. They should be the same dimension.
I certainly don't have a lot of experience with the compound radius fretboard. Frankly, I was surprised it came out as well as it did. The rig has to wobble all over the place and the payback seems... theoretical at best hahaha
Ok 10 to 16 is a lot of compound..I have less on mine and it works perfectly.
You do you brotherman.
People don't like the same things and that is okay. That is why there is a menu at restaurants .
Sure
After spending some time watching the Gibson factory tour video, I just think Matt can say he is smart all he wants. He is right.
Me?
I just show y'all stuff that works or doesn't work for me.
Thanks for watching my friend
Welcome to the Dark Side..Mwahahahaha... we have cookies :) I love a good 12"-16" (Jackson)
I don't see myself switching to this set up as a standard option anytime soon. It is a lot of over-engineering for no real pay off if you ask me. That is why they make 31 flavors my friend
@@TexasToastGuitars Try it by hand sometime...Chris did the hard work (Brainiac). :P That's why th "W" leaves their radii maker permanant at 10" - 16" (like yours was setup), and charge extra for straight radii. My opinion is, they get a lot of requests for the original Floyd 10" nut, and people love a flatter board near the dusty end..just sayin'
We all know Chris is smarter than me but even my tiny pea brain knows not to try one buy hand
@@TexasToastGuitars Is that a freakin Sacred Reich reference?
@@onpsxmember I don't know if it is or isn't? I have heard of that band but I don't know much about them...
The radius should increase proportional with the fretboard width to have even action across the fretboard. width@heel / width@nut = radius@heel /radius@nut. It will come out at a third. So 7.25-9.5, 10-14, 12-16 work well. (if the width works the same)
It's all in the cone. The 10-15 that came out is close to that of a Parker Fly (10-14), It'll work fine. Now I want to see you guys bending all the fretwire to the different radii.
Got any footage giving the desert lead poisoning?
Great music as always. Who did that Solid 6 track?
You are jumping ahead to video number 2 that I am uploading right now.
The first secret of a compound radius is that it actually is a CONICAL radius NOT compound
Wait for video number 2... I talk about that too
exactly, and the sanding should be on the same plane as the axis of the 'cone'. in this case because the neck is sanded at an angle..the compounding is skewed.. so the compounding is somewhere less than the minimum and greater than the maximum of the radius setting at each end..and the edges of the fretboard would not really be the same on both sides...one edge would be thinner than the other on the corresponding location as measured from the nut..difficult to explain in words...the second problem is getting the frets to sit flush with the top of the neck..and then to compound radius the tops of the frets when leveling..in the end you will still need to do some individual leveling of the frets to remove any buzzing from low string action bends..but closer to the final result with this jig than otherwise
Why do Americans always yell?
Regardless of where you live, if you want to be heard, you better speak up.