The Worst of the Ordertide, Lizardmen Need a Rework - Total War: Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- The highest priority for players among the Order Tide races it to Rework Lizardmen, who have suffered for a long time.
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It's pretty funny that the Geomantic Web is such a boring and pointless mechanic you forgot to even talk about how bad it is xD
wtf does it even do
@@TheStrudelJonnymake commandments go from terrible to mediocre when you get a t5 settlement and just in that 1 province
TFW the last DLC of wh2featured lizardmen, and Shadows of Change introduced a Cathayan campaign that involves the geomantic web- and neither time did they change the geo web at all
I think that jungle attrition should be increased for everyone to make it more impactful and Lizardmen should get more campaign speed.
Kroq Gar needs a rework
The Geomantic web needs a rework
More dinosaurs.
Lizardmen are basically my favorite race after the Tomb Kings, but I'm not sure I've really played them much since Oxyotl was released a few years ago. They kinda need a refresh very badly before I even think about investing yet more time into them.
Oxy is the one really good Lizardmen campaign but he's also so fricking OP he's kinda boring.
Finally someone mentions the jungle. Lizardmen should have always had bonuses to jungle movement, maybe even a special stance for moving through jungle. It's never made sense to me that Lizardmen aren't any better at moving throughout Lustria than anyone else.
Add Skinks with bows like in older editions of WHFB. Improve the tech tree. Make it either easier to build all of the vast array of necessary buildings or improve the rewards for building them. Finally, make the geomantic web worth investing in.
But I disagree that Tehenhauin is dull, at least!
Also: move Saurus troops back down a tier like they used to be
One thing I've thought the Lizardmen should have (apart from being able to use the Geomantic Web to teleport) is faster river crossing. Half of their units are amphibious, and many of those that aren't are dinosaurs that can probably ford rivers that would be problematic for most races to cross - that would presumably be enough that even if there are units in the army that don't fit those categories like Saurus, it would still be a lot easier for the Lizardmen to set up a crossing than most races. This would already be a big deal since, due to how much Lustria and the Southlands have been shrunk down, both regions (but Lustria in particular) ended up with a LOT of rivers.
A similar mechanic could also be given to the Vampire Coast, many of whose units can simply walk along the bottom even if they don't actually swim.
All true, i would also lower the bulding level requirements for adding capacity by 1 for each hero (to be in line with other factions)
@@monostorizsolt2472 Yeah, I think in most cases the chains are available earlier, it's just that you don't get the hero until you're at tier 4 or 5. Could even do what some races do IIRC and increase the cap further at the top tiers.
kinda ironic that a faction with so much dlc support is almost unplayable, it's like CA don't know how to develop and they just keep throwing pasta at the fridge hoping it will stick.
With the exception of Oxyotl, who is awesome, almost all the DLC lords are kinda boring.
Tetto'eko is missing. There is a Lizard faction in the Realm of Chaos called the Spawn of Tepok. Tepok is the good of magic, so I am sure that at theb beginning they had something planned
I think your surprise in people choosing the vampire counts as being most in need is because you can see that it is a good enough faction to have a good campaign but anyone in the community can see how easily it could be improved for flavor and fun.
Oh sure I can understand why people want DLC. It's just I think Coast and Tomb Kings need help far more.
@@Costin_Gaming Tomb kings will get a rework during End times with Nagash. They'll be last on the list
@tonyottoway8648 Kinda want Nagash to be his own faction. He has mortachs(lieutenants), which include Arkhan, Manfred, Luthor Harkon, Krell as well as characters which aren't in the game like Dieter Helsnicht, Nefarata, the Hand of Nagash, Constant Drachenfals, and the Dread king
I will start by saying I enjoyed the video and I agree with some of your points. I play both multiplayer,head to head, and solo. I have played lizard-men in real life table top years ago and I play Lizardmen from warhammer 2 and now.
I think Lizard-men need some work. However I think people make them seem way worse than they actually are.
Kroq'Gar (lesser extent Gor'rok) campaign is super fast if you play aggressively coupled with building a couple key buildings first, and they are not your average building rush for Lizard-men.
Focusing on lowering upkeep for Sarus units and focusing on pure growth and income, not worrying about getting higher tier units.
There is also a campaign decision that will almost always pop up. It will ask if you want builds to cost more and build faster, or cost less and build slower.
You of course increase building price and speed. Knocks t3 build down by 2 or 3 turns. Once you hit t3, you rush you geomantic webs. Reducing building time further and reducing the cost a bit.
It's all about aggression. Sarus units can handle more than people think. Gor'rok and Kroq'gar boost/lower cost enough to make them damn dangerous.
I find when people think Lizard-men are so bad, is when they focus on Auto-resolve. When you learn to play the combat side of the game, lizardman handle like a reliable truck.
Sure, it might be rough at points, but it's solid and can take what ever you throw at it.
No cheese, just go go go.
Mazdomundi can control Lustria better than most lords in Lustria. But again, most people try to auto resolve against Norsca and take such high losses they get tied up before they can make it south. Getting lower power will also cause Morathi to smell blood in the water. Keeping Morathi happy stops you from having to go north into terrible lands for Maz. He then needs to stack Siege steggos and his military can't be messed with. 55 turn all of Lustria in the jiggly toads back pocket.
I find Mazdamundi frustrating because he's supposed to be one of the most powerful casters in the setting, and instead he's just.... okay? I don't like the spells he gets, and he doesn't boost his magic use much.
@AnEnormousNerd oh he definitely needs some love from CA, and he isn't the only caster who does.
Mazdamundi has a really good skill set for single entity healing and protection.
He actually is a very good caster...for support spells. Lol Net + apotheosis with the right units can make maz nearly untouchable. It's not the only way to go but it compliments his magic skill set.
Really like to see the dread saurian turn into thunderbarge levels of threat. It's sad to see its value as a "repairable" punching bag vs being the one doing the punching.
I love Tik Taq To. Fun to play a faction with an air force.
Pretty much the best lizardmen campaign
Tetto'eko as legendary lord, chakax as legendary hero
LM have so many interesting units but their campaign mechanics just do not support them :(
Mfw when I'm still running around with jav skinks and a few blessed units on turn 60
I recently played a Lizardmen Tehenhauin campaign just for the purpose of seeing how rich they are and how fast they can build up. And the result was disappointing to say the least.
By turn 80 I STILL haven't had a completely upgraded Tier 5 province (it was Tier 5, but not all other buildings maxed out yet) In comparison, when playing Yuan Bo, I can Recruit 10 Tier 5 units locally at rank 9 in his starting province when turned into a Military district by turn ~65.
Granted I might've not played absolutely optimally and perhaps lost 5 or even more turns, but it's still awful. And their income is actually WORSE than frigging Kislev! I was aiming for as high an income as possible, used all multiplicators from research, buildings and commandment and in all of Lustria I had like TWO provinces that where able to get past the 4k income mark. Kislev can get a lot richer in the late game hoarding Resource buildings.
And the worst of all is, that the Lizardmen building tree is way too bloated. There are so many situational buildinds that you want, but don't really have a slot for and on top of it can only be build in the capital and are only a Tier 3 building with no upgrades. With most factions you can have "everything you want" maybe you have to forgo one, maybe two buildings, but for Lizardmen? You're even hard pressed to have access to ALL units in a single province. You could say that means you can specialize your provinces more, one for units, another for research, then for income and another for Misc buffs, but all in all it's just overloaded and would need some serious trimming.
And yes, the jungle and the terrible movement range there. It is a nightmare to chase after enemy armies that just refuse to fight you and if you get close they retreat and get a full movement bar worth of movement in the jungle away from you for free. Astromancy stance doesn't help either if the enemy doesn't use Tunneling to begin with.
And why don't have the monstrous Dinosaur units have Woodsman? They LIVE in the frigging jungle? Why're they slowed down and have combat malus when in trees, often enough can't even hide in them?!
Lastly I would favour a rework of the Lord and Faction effects, aside from Oxyotl and Tehenhauin none of the Lords have any kind of unique effects or mechanics that really sets them apart (Nakai nonwithstanding) it's kind of boring, there isn't that much of a difference on which Lord you pick really.
The Devs must've spent all the Lizardmen development time on animations & models, not so much the campaign mechanics.
It blows my mind how amazing the units all look & feel, but don't have anything like the stats to back up the love & attention they clearly received. Plus it's downright criminal that they have a tougher time holding Lustria than the bloody Bretonnians.
As for Lords, well, some would say Tetto'eko would be the logical choice (& he is). But for my money, they could do something really interesting with Kremlo - just make him a slightly weirder mage priest whose interpretation of the Great Plan somehow involves working with the Skeggi, make a hybrid Lizardmen-Norsca faction, bob's your uncle.
If Sotek sees this he will lose it lol.
The econemy is alright.
No movement penalties for going through trees.
Yeah the research needs to at least go without the buldings.
Geomantic web needs to cut down building time and needs to spread stronger into other provinces.
Or you can choose bonuses and put them over the geomantic web into other provinces. Like garrison upgrades, maybe even teleports altough it maybe need to recharge just mazda mundi can use it freely.
Or even go as far as giving an enemy armie -50 movement range in your or other provinces because the jungel basically closes in the lore for enemys.
I think the geomantic weeb is a cool concept it just isn't used properly.
Hope you guys like a Cathy😂
Tetto'eko : vanguard deployment for all troops and auto guided comets of cassandora.
You can unlock him through quests as any of the lizardmen.
Overlooking the **CHAD** Skink Cohort Javelin! An entire crapstack of Javelins will decimate most early and mid-game stacks, and can be used to gravely wound late game armies with sheer volume of fire. Trust me, it is *the way*.
They can always add Tetto'eko, he's currently available through a mod
Your poll asked for what race we want a new dlc, not a rework so maybe ask the poll questions diffirent
They can add tetto ekko and Chakox the eternal warden. Tetto ekko is a Skink with slann powers who has never lost a battle and many Slann consider him to be one of them.
Chakax would probably be more along the lines of a legendary hero, but the Eternity Wardens in general could be a good concept for a generic hero option as well.
love the lizardmen, their campaign are so terrible though.
Picking kislev over lizardmen is crazy when they have campaign mechanics like the ice court
The Vampire Counts need a DLC because even though they play in battel and have a stabile campaign but they are boring on campaign.
Mazdamundi should get the Kislev mage college think or get Gelts mechanic the other lords should also get some mechanic copied from an existing faction
I got the hunter and the beast only shortly before the release of Warhammer 3
I feel like I'm the only one that likes ol Kroq Gar
Yeah lizards dont suck they are just boring is the issue to what they could be
Cult of Sotek faction mechanics are STILL broken since the full map was released.
How so?
The Prophecy of Sotek mechanic isn't tracked properly, it will give you an incorrect number of provinces allowing you to complete it early. Also I'm 99% sure that in WH2 the diplomacy locked with skaven goes away in stage 3 after finishing stage 2. Instead you have to deal with a never ending conga line of rats that are immune to sea attrition laser focused on only you.
explain plz
@@Hyrath aaaah right I remember some of the missions just randomly completing without me doing anything
I don't mind them being boring. Sure I'd like more, but it's simple.
cant they do rework without DLC? would that be a warcrime in their eyes?
Probably the reason want a Vampire Counts rework is because they're so fucking irritating to fight against, rather than with. Cool, I wiped out your whole army! ...oh, wait, no, it's back again. Very un-fun.
There are 2 more characters th ed y could add
Warhammer 2 Kroq Gar was my favorite, but now hes sooooo meh
Lizardmen really fee like less than the sum of their parts. They have all the ingredients for a great faction with tons of content, but their campaign mechanics and generally underperforming and overpriced army just make them so underwhelming. Combine that with a poor economy and you’ve got yourself a recipe for a race in critical need of a rework
They have one of the coolest rosters but absolutely boring campaigns and an afterthought of a mechanic in the geomantic web.
Its a shame
They’re fine. They don’t need anything much less a full rework.
Tomb kings are fine, they just need more units.
A lot of races needs rework. In an order:
Vampire Counts, Vampire Coast, the Lizardmen, Bretonians, Norsca.