I Built a NOOB vs PRO Great Wall Track!
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- čas přidán 28. 09. 2022
- Hey everyone and welcome back to more Zeepkist! Today we are tasked with building IRL tracks so I decided to make a noob vs pro great wall track! A lot of people were upset that our tracks are too difficult so this track has 2 routes in order to get to the same finish!
Check out the other guys! @darealkosmo @scrapman @DapperEcho
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#zeepkist #kangaming - Hry
Multiple ways are always a good idea, doesn‘t discourage new players, since they are able to finish, but also holds a challenge for the better players. (Maybe even add a god route, which is even harder than the pro)
You mean the Warcans route lol
Pro route should be a short kacky track
Parmigiano - hard cheese
What I would do is create shortcuts that either require a specific speed or good car control. That way you don't have to create two track
That would imply kAN has to finish it
I think the difference in time should probably vary based on just how hard the pro line is, and how varied of a time the tracks create. Some tracks you make produce nearly identical times, some all over the place.
Yeah I like that idea, if it's super hard then huge time save.
A cool twist to this idea (to allow checkpoints) is to have several different tracks (3-4) that all go different ways and than regularly meet up at a common point before splitting off again. The idea being players test different routes to find the optimal path. Some paths might be slow but easy, others extremely difficult but much faster.
Noticed on the last runs that you could probably skip the last wall transfer on pro route, and instead jump straight on the boosters. Was dying to mostly landings, so never got a chance to drive it :D
you could bring back the evolution series with zeepkist. Where in everyone builds thirty seconds of track each round, and the winner of each round is decided by a dedicated judge, or group consensus
Ooooh. Yes. Track Evolution would be so sick!
Judged by dev
🎉🎉🎉
I like the dual track idea, I definitely think the pro side should be noticeably faster than the noob side. I mean it'll be 10× more challenging but in return you get better times. Otherwise it's unfair for veteran players that someone just out for a casual drive on the noob route get a similar time for basically not trying. If the two sides were close in times it wouldn't be fair to anyone and you might as well just make a track that's really easy.
I love the idea of the two "levels" of track, especially if they cross so that everyone can see each other, as well as have shared checkpoints. Hard to prevent cheeses, though.
for shared checkpoints, you could have them in the air at the intersection of two jumps or something so you can't just change direction from one route to the other while going through it
once people get used to the pro route being 10-20 seconds faster, make the noob route faster but only if you drive it exactly right (this might be an idea for Dapper lol)
I was gonna say to put hidden cheeses on the noob route
getting a good time on that noob rout would require near perfect driving at all times in both turns and landings, getting a good time on the pro rout mostly just requires knowing a set of tricks to preform since you are constantly being bumped back up to 200+ speed so if you were trying to make the track actually sorted by noob rout vs pro rout it would honestly make sense to cut just a bit of length from the "noob" side and make it so that a near-perfect run there beats a perfect run on "pro"
...for that matter getting through "pro" would serve respectably well as a training course so I guess just switch the signs while you're at it
Its a neat concept, and I hope we see more tracks like this one!
I like this concept a lot. I'd say ideally having around 3 to 5 secs differential between the two tracks on normal runs, plus a couple of spots on the pro track were with some epic moves one could squeeze another sec, could do it for an epic run.
The crossings reminded me of rally stadium special stages: very cool indeed 👍
I disagree with you because I think pro would go on noob route and optimize their runs there instead of going pro where optimization would be less significant. 10 seconds should be the least. The goal of having a noob route is to make it possible for an easy finish and the pro track should be of course harder and should be rewarding with significant chances for podium over the noob route. I would say between 20 and 10 seconds would be significant enough to make sure the noob route isn’t more rewarding.
Theoretically speaking, I don't see why they would since we'd still talking about a slower route. But I don't play the game, so I'm not aware of how much u can optimize a run in terms of lines precision and optimal speed. The main idea was to get let's say 1:10 for an optimized noob route, 1:08-09 for an unoptimized pro run, 1:05 for an optimized pro run, and 1:04-03 for a perfect pro run with a couple of high risks moves in. But again to say this on paper it's a thing, to get it done it's another.
@@TheMexOff i mean, it would work most of the time but with people like Warcans I feel like there might be a need for a bigger margin of error. Kan might be good but I don’t think he can optimize a route enough to get a real view of what someone like Warcans can achieve on a noob route.
Yeah that's a good point
I really like the time difference, makes people feel rewarded for trying the harder route.
Yeah, that’s good and I feel like it must be rewarding for a noob to finish the track even going the noob route.
I like the concept of multiple paths. To add checkpoints, you ought to have the paths intersect more often, and then someone can decide part way through to switch from one to the other.
In contrast to the difficulty differences, a track with multiple routes without similar finish times would be cool too. One path for practicing air rolls, a path for your signature elbow loops/speed control, a path focused on perecting turning line/need to maintain speed to make it, etc.... All similar difficulties but all similar times too. That would be a big undertaking though so I don't think it's reasonable, unless you guys can somehow tag-team and collaborate on making one large level
This was a great idea!! I like the time gap for the 2 tracks, around 10 sec works well. Can't wait to see more of these!!!
Great idea, beautifully executed. All over too soon, I'm immediately watching a second time.
For noob vs pro routes, what if there was points on either route you can take a risky switch, jumping off of an obstacle to the other route, or wall riding back.
So a pro, noob, and a freestyle. with freestyling rewarding creativity with faster times.
Genius map design having the two tracks visible from each other. The best example has to be the large ramp
8:05 love the subtle brag. warcans is not an easy player to beat, good job.
A 10 sec advantage sounds very reasonable. It is not immediately obvious which one is bad and it's very much possible to be faster on noob-track, but in the end the reward for harder track is still there.
I also really like the multiple route idea! Both giving everyone of all skill levels something to do and makes for fun designs. Watching the Pros fly over the Noobs on this one was very aesthetic.
I agree with the others that the tracks should converge for the checkpoints. Maybe a good time difference would be about 3 seconds per checkpoint. So for example, if the checkpoints on this map were when the pros flew over and then under the track, they'd be about 3 seconds ahead by the over jump, 6 by the under jump, and 9-10 at the very end.
That would let people see how much faster they're going by taking the new track, assuming they do the Noob one first.
Very cool idea to make 2 tracks in 1 map, love it! And beautifully made, my favorite this week 🤘
Cool track Idea. You should get feitz to make conditional gates so that you can have a gate on both tracks and you have to hit one of them. Of course that will make Dapper come up with totally new cheeses.
Linked checkpoints like Trackmania has would be great.
Really awesome track today! Love the aesthetics! I think having good routes can definitely appeal to a wider audience of players. Alternatively, and this is something I've seen in a few really good Trackmania tracks, you CAN design hard courses where the fastest times are going to require high skill lines or mechanics (maybe in zeepkist it would be air controls, breaking zones, or wall rides) but also having easier lines around those same features/turns/etc.
It's hard to explain this without using an example, but I hope it makes sense. I like where you're headed Kan
The 2 tracks should intertwine more. Like, they should remerge in places and then re-diverge as well as being able to see the racers in the other track most of the time. You could use colors or shapes or something to indicate at each split which is the noob and pro tracks.
Looking good.
Future tracks could have multiple intersections(checkpoints) where the pro and the noobs cross each other. People could even mix and do parts sections pro and sections noob within 1 run.
And maybe even set a faster time when taking 1 noob section instead of going pro all the way if a speed boost from the previous track is beneficial on the next section of the different route.
What could be a cool concept for this, is to have differently sized holes, and the smaller the hole, the shorter the path it takes you to. So high risk high reward kind of thing.
This is super cool idea - I like the two routes being more different, particularly if the difficulty gap is large.
I think the times between each route should be a bit closer. That way people won’t feel as discouraged to use the noob route.
Edit: I do think that the pro route should be faster though.
Fair
Disagree, learn playing or leave lobby, life is about learning to overcome obstacles, not about 'please give me easy reward on the plate because I want to be as good as people who really put their hearts into what they doing'.
But of course this is my opinion
Agreed, I would like to see some overlap between good times on the easy track and bad times on the hard one.
@@SirMaxeN i don’t think that they should be equal, I think they should be closer
I saw some people taking that first Pro route jump and trying to get onto the Noob route with it. I wonder if that's how Zoman got their time? The Noob route is shorter and the jump off the Pro route would give you more speed than going pure Noob.
As for the split track question, I definitely think you should do more. But that the times should be more similar to each other. Finding the best line on either side should get almost the same time.
So that's what the last 2/3 of the pro track looks like... lol
I was on the noob route right behind you at the start. Was nice to get a time on the first run through. Thanks for the options!
As a suggestion, you can always recombine the tracks and then branch them again for checkpoints, also a CYOA type thing. If one section is too hard, you can 'noob' it. The pro should only be a tiny bit faster, 10 seconds seems too much for the entire track, but beyond that it's a pretty nice kANcept.
Scrapman: That tree after the bank is killing me.
kAN: Yeah that was an intentionally placed tree.
Scrapman: waits...
Scrapman: Thanks.
love the noob and pro track concept, :D
Cool track man, love the big jumps ;)
I feel like this idea is close to old school console racing games, where there's not just one whole track each, but a series of choices, or "shortcuts", so you can pick and choose based on which ones you're good at, to cut time where you're confident and take it easy where you struggle.
This is a cool and interesting idea! I like your entire introduction line of thinking. Noob track easier & slower is perfect.
Instead of having 2 completly separated track having them really interconnected . For exemple a jump where if you are too slow you have another path that penalise you and then send you back to the main track
I personally prefer the idea of just one track with many difficult shortcuts that you can take to shave off time. This would also solve your checkpoint problem
Ancient chinese workers singing another brick in the wall while building the great wall
I enjoyed looking at the driving angles during the 'pro track tour'.
I'd say having a pro track be near impossible, and with a large difference in times. Then it is a risk reward situation. Kind of like dapper's two loops that had many take the inside of the first loop and fling toward the finish. You can get an awsome time, but only if you can pull it off.
I like the time difference. You could set the bronze / silver times to alright / good runs on the “Noob” side, and set the gold / author to good / personal best times on the “Pro” side. Makes it fair for the people who want an easy run, and if they want a good time, they’ll have to do the pro side.
This is a good idea. I think the two tracks and the gap in time is appropriate. If you can go just as fast on the noob track why would anyone do the pro track? It would basically be the same as just making easier tracks. You did a great job. Noob vs pro should be the theme for you guys.
If you keep the pro track/noob track thing up, at some point you gotta pull a full 180 on everyone and make the noob track just that much faster xD
I love how ZOMAN had the slowest "pro" time right up until 13:10
😄
You could make one where the two paths come together a couple times for a bit (good for checkpoints) before veering off again. Maybe even not say which is the noob and which is the pro choice for the split. But have there be one distinct route that is noob and one that is pro. It would be cool in mutiplayer to see other players during the merged section, but not know which way they went to get there.
Pro track should have a significant time advantage so that someone can't noob 1st place
next theme could be ¨Noob vs Pro¨, that would be fun
I kind of like this concept. It's like bringing back the noobvpro series, but now in zeepkist. Don't work too hard, but great job on this one.
With the checkpoints, maybe see how dapper scales the checkpoints, or just make them really big to go over both tracks along the length till the finish
Always glad to hear someone mention Hadrian's wall!
I think it should be timed so that a pro player taking all the lines on the noob route can compete with those who just about managed the pro route.
So noob route + pro lines = pro route + noob lines
That’s a super well-made track! Looks great, drives great! Just great!
Really cool track and flow and great noob v pro concept.
"don't think you can make it up that ramp. there's a booster" I got the emendate image of a booster seat.
Love the idea of more of these.
coming from a Trackmania background, I really like the idea of a pro/noob route! if you wanna save time building the maps, you might want to include a "risky finish" instead of building two completely different routes tho :)
I think the pro track should definitely be faster than the noob track, but the difference should be small enough that if you do really good on the noob track you should be able to beat someone who does very poorly on the pro track.
something like a 3 to 5 second difference.
also, maybe have the tracks intersect at certain points, so that you can do a section of the noob track then go on the pro track for a little bit in order to gain a bit of time.
that would motivate people to try out the pro track even if there is a particularly hard section they can't figure out how to do. (it should of course still be faster to never leave the pro track, tho that might be hard to balance.)
I think a single route that is easy to finish but hard to get a good time on is better. Using techniques like minimizing turning, minimizing air time, using smooth lines.
This is a great idea. This is a common thing in tm tracks
I raced BMX in high school and some tracks had a pro section of the track. So just one of the straights of the track between two berms would split one was the regular track and one was the pro section. You could do something like that as opposed to essentially 2 separate tracks.
This is a great idea, and would be a perfect, non-cheese way to use giant/scaled-up check points
I like that the pro and noob times are clearly different. That way the people taking only the noob way can compare there times just with other noob times. It almost feels like two different leagues competing separately… but together. I think that’s Super cool 🤙
Love the idea of both tracks.
Not sure if you were able to make it more along one line but if you do pro tricks (possibly shortcuts¿) You could get a bit faster times.
I really love this idea! Please make more
I would love to see a whole theme around noob vs pro, so we can see everyone's take on it
idea for how to add checkpoints: ask yannic to add the ability to customize how many of the checkpoints are required, so you could have 5 separate checkpoints for each track (for a total of 10 on the map) but you only need to hit 5 checkpoints to set a time.
Thanks KAn for super content. But I hate how these runs end. A suggestion to fiets: use the formula 110% rule. As long as you start before "the flag" you need to be within 110% of leader or validation. On each checkpoint (edit)
Noob vs Pro is still one of my favorite series you and Kan (and later Dapper) did!
Huge time gap is great, gives an incentive to try the pro track
You can try to combine the easy and pro route in one, like, make the track and put small features that make it easily or put difficult to reach but reward 'turbos', like in the top of some wall ride or in a very small path in the middle of the grass or sand or trees, that need precision to reach and don't screw up. Also, things like the cuts of Super Mário Kart can serve as inspiration, with those jumps out of the track.
Pretty good idea, now well placed checkpoints need to be made. ;)
Multi choice is a great idea.
My favourite track design of yours so far.
You can build a more cohesive experience by putting difficult and easy ways to get around individual obstacles, while only having one major route.
make a track in 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour, and 2 hours to see what you can make. Got the idea from Lionel Yu where he does the same concept but with writing music.
Definitely a good way to go about it, although I think making small shortcuts in an average track is a better way to do it, kinda like what dapper does with some of his tracks (they are tough, but mostly because you are trying to do cheese)
I like multiple options concepts but it would be cool if the two meshed occasionally so the drivers freak out when people fly by them randomly from a different direction
Maybe think about having multiple different segments that are noob or pro and are interconnected. Like for example have a faster pro segment that rides the side of the wall, whereas the noob route drives on top of it.
This would give the track a lot of replayability, because you can mix and match different segments in attempts to create faster and faster routes.
I bet that took a lot longer, but it's a really cool idea and the track was awesome.
Had so much fun playing this!
Ten seconds or so is good and I love the idea yes more
The pro track really make me think of games mountain bikes tracks like in descender. Awesome track
The pro track definitely should be faster. But I love the idea of this
Maybe it would be better if the pro and the noob track would reconnect e few times so you could choose how much of the each track you want to play. It would also make them feel more like the same track
Really cool idea. I'm just enjoying the content.
I fully agree that the more difficult routes should offer greater time saves.
Yannic should add linked checkpoints, like in Trackmania, when you have 2 linked Checkpoints and go through one of them, it will count as both checkpoints
I think there could have been some shortcuts (jumps) on the noob track to bring the times closer (if you have the right speed to make the gap), as players would feel like they will get a good time.
Slower easier tracks are a good idea imo, encourages people to take part without feeling overwhelmed. Also if you keep doing it, eventually everyone goes pro and you do one track where noob is actually faster with some cheese just to throw people off and make them try both
maybe make the 2 lanes meet several times during the track with signs so people can mix and match to see who can get the faster line.
The time gap makes sense, it'll make it more rewarding for better playing.
Nice concept, I like it :)
I love the concept of Noob v Pro...definitely think that Pro should be faster than Noob by default.
I think this is a great idea- but the pro routes should always reward those who can complete them
the idea is pretty cool but it seems really time consuming since you said it yourself, you gotta make 2 tracks basically. just keep making hard tracks and people just needa get GOOD!
Not sure if that would be a lot faster but can't you start on the pro track, jump on the noob section with a ton of speed and save a lot of time?
You guys should do a theme of spinning and put in like a double helix horizontal wall ride so you can take either side to get there. Would be a really cool effect in photo mode
I honestly wonder if after the first corner on the pro track, if you could take that jump onto the noob track and that would allow you to hit more boosters and finish faster. Hmm, that might be one of the reasons for those stairs.
Instead of Noob verse pro, do heaven vs hell with hell being easier but put invisible walls everywhere so that it has the theme of "broad is the way of destruction" and the heaven heaven track is only 1.5x a car width wide with the theme of "straight and narrow is the way to eternal life".
Awesome! love the idea.