Cold Air Intakes Mythbusted [Turbo]
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- čas přidán 1. 05. 2012
- Last episode the boys busted POD Filters. But fans wanted to know about Cold Air Intakes. So will an aftermarket Cold Air Intake give you more power on a turbo charged car?
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*This is not a purely scientific test of course, just our own testing with the stuff we have available. We can't test every car but you guys can do your own testing and let us know how you go. You may have different results or experience with your own car and if you do please let us know all about it here on the MCM Forum: forums.mightycarmods.com/showt...
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This video is intended as Entertainment only. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
![Cold Air Intakes Mythbusted [Naturally Aspirated]](/img/n.gif)
fools, you need the K&N stickers for any increases. Geeze!!!!
Just put mine on.
Give this man a pizza
@@proxima_midnite6056 what's your 1/4 mile time now that you installed the sticker?
Dude
OK how is it getting any cold air setting there ?
Intake inside the cabin with the air conditioning on 😂
bro thats smart asf 👀
@@JAAR826 bruh no, do you even drive a car xD having the air con probably robs you of more of the hp youll make with the cold air of the ac going into the intake lol
@@emmanuellehuu8818 do u not have a sende of humor? or common sense?
@@emmanuellehuu8818 Open car window, hold intake out, drive. Free hp.
@@emmanuellehuu8818 that’s how u get no power loss with ac on 😌
did anyone else catch that??
2:17
Karl’s Garage yea wtf
pro boys Fishing i thought i saw it wrong at first🤣
Karl’s Garage I did
🤣😂 yup. I was like what dah!
Those boys like wrenches in their tail pipes! 😂
5:53 is in my opinion one of the most important notes of this test for anyone worried about heating up the air going into their engine. The fact that no matter the configuration your inter cooler is still doing its job is worth noting. While you don't see performance gains with the same tune all around I still have to wonder if the improved air flow helps increase your hp after a performance tune compared to stock. (just noticed the last comment on this video was 3 years ago...oh well)
Now im reading this comment 3 years on
did anyone notice the cheek grab at 2:15 ?? lol wtf
For a very budget person (me) where I manage to kinda trash pick and eBay up a CAI for $30 on a crappy 4 cyl sedan, it's really just for auditory purposes, as it does sound better than stock at least
I painted flames on my Honda (good for at least 200hp increase).👍
As the temperature graph you showed in the video proves, a cold air intake source does not provide "extra" power, it merely makes an engines' potential power production more consistent over time by keeping intake air temperature more consistent. This is actually less of an issue for drag racers than for road course or roundy-round runners for example.
Thank you MCM for being my High School class pass time...whilst informing me on anything interesting.
The stock intake comes with a snorkel which feeds into the bumper. That being said, these guys didn't keep all the variables constant for this experiment. A properly designed cold air intake feeds the pod filter into the bumper just like the stock intake snorkel.
What their experiment shows is that short ram intakes with the conical filter in the engine bay feeds hotter air into the engine resulting in a power and efficiency loss vs. the stock filter.
To deliver colder air into the engine with the intake there air two things to keep in mind, filter location and pipe material. Metal absorbs much more heat from the engine bay than plastic or rubber, so metal piping will heat up the air inside more than plastic/rubber or wrapped piping. Lots and lots of variables to consider, that's why good intakes cost so much money and they really just aren't worth it if you're not boosting the stock engine where restriction isn't an issue.
UPDATE: So I actually did purchase a DC Sports cold air intake ($152) for my Integra. While installing the cold air intake I learned that on my car there actually isn't a snorkel from the stock intake that pulls in outside air. Instead, the stock intake recycles air from the engine bay through an air box within the passenger side splashguard.
What this means is my stock intake wasn't even drawing in outside air, but actually pulling in air through the engine bay, into this air box above the splashguard, and up to the filter. My cold air intake feeds the pod filter above the splashguard so it is truly drawing in cold outside air. I put an AEM Dryflow cover over the filter to prevent any chance of hydrolock.
I haven't gotten the Integra on a DYNO before and after, but I have definitely noticed an increase in power. My idle speed is greater, the car pulls harder in the 5-7k rpm range, and I get more pull in the low rpms while in 4th gear. Also I got a lean code from the extra air being drawn into the engine, so I simply reset the ecu to adjust to the extra air being drawn in.
Drawing in cold air does result in greater hp as their video has shown. You just have to decide is paying for a real cold air intake (not a short ram intake) is worth the money. For me, $152 for what I've gained was well worth it.
Glad you guys having fun.
Love the comments section everyone has different options I'm learning more this video makes great for education purposes
If you buy a cheap intake it won't do anithing, im no implying, expensive is allway the best option, becouse it cost more, but becouse is been bouild with a better quality, and this translate to efficient air intake, is not the same to put a 50, dolar intake for your engine, and expect the same results, as to buy an intake for 150$ made by Japane, or one made on USA, the performance will be different due to the quality, of the part you are buying, in this case a cold performance intake.
Fartheremore we don't know the make or price of this intake, they might look similar as an expensive one, but surely won't operate the same, so unless I know where and how much this intake cost, I won't take this video sirusly and you shouldn't either.
Watching MCM video :
1.Open video and press pause
2. Google convert Kw to hp
3. Press play
4. Enjoy
it also says the hp right next to it....
on the dyno, yes, but not when theyre talking !
in Canada, cold air intakes are just called 'air intakes'
No, in canada cold air intakes are called "lets wait for the -40 degree winter, to get our 2% extra power"
There's no extra power , it's just fucking cold lol
Because we all know its fucking 0º kelvin in Canada hahaha
I got a 2010 Mustang gt and it has a factory CAI . My friends were telling me to by an aftermarket CAI after watching this video I'll leave it stock...and just run a good k&n filter and that's as good as it gets...great video!!
here from the latest vid on Focus 2018-03-05; hahah old school classic MCM
theres a bit of a problem which leads to inaccuracy. turbo will heat the air up no matter how cold air goes before turbo afyer turbo it will be at the same high temperature, hence the need for intercooler. would like to see this video re-done on a natutally aspirated engine :)
They did do it on a naturally aspirated car. just CZcams "Cold air intake myth busted natural aspirated"
thanks, i didnt know they did it on naturally aspirated engine.
+Rokas Getautas Yaa no problem :)
You have to study more then if they such non-sence. The air has to go through the turbo in order to get pressurised. If the does not go through the turbo it either meand that the turbo is not mounted to the engine or the turbo doesnt even exist.
+justisstockton ..a turbo is forced induction into the engine. It compresses the air and forces it into the engine
damn, gran turismo has been lying to me after all this year...
Me and my brother used to laugh at what happens with an oil change in that game, when he got a new car (Mazda3) he was saying the HP figure (150 or something) and he was like "but with an oil change, I could get an easy 250, throw on a new air filter and I'll be smoking bugattis"
lmao
Actuly new oil helps with hp more ghen air filtre lol well when i sah hp i mean one or two
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😭
@@Pelon7549 No. They do work. Just watch their other video where they tested the complete setup on his S2000.
And there are plenty of other videos showing good gains on the dyno.
I have a K&N FIPK on my vehicles engine and it works very well.
Awesome video guys!
I've heard before that the exhaust may need to be changed as well in order to increase power. Theoretically, it's because the back pressure will increase in a stock exhaust, putting resistance on the internals.
2:16 coppin a feel
2:18 asss grab LMAO
The only CZcamsrs doing proper tests
After long research lol! CAI will only improve the throttle response :) and that’s very pleasant. Now if you want more power then tuning is the way to go
I threw a CAI and catback on my pickup truck and it did definitely improve throttle response on takeoff. My truck is not boosted either so that is likely why I did notice a gain as a boosted engine has a turbo/blower to force air in, rather than having to rely on atmospheric pressure and cylinder vacuum.
The only reason to fit a 'cold air intake' filter to a turbo charger, in my opinion, is essentially to act as a FILTER (dust, gravel, mud etc from damaging the housing) rather than serve as a cold air intake. It is not a practical addition to a turbo'd induction system as air is compressed (heated, eventually) and flows to the intercooler for initial cooling. So, what they were trying to prove/bust was done in a bad setting. Would have been a more effective experiment if applied to an N/A vehicle, outdoors and actually driving the car.
Without any proper tune, any CAI is worthless. Your not telling the ECU to take advantage of the 'extra' air that is coming in.
Exactly, a lot of ECU's will try to keep the engine at factory output.
So the only gain is proberly some loss in Torque and some gain in noise. Only cars being boosted can take advantage (a little more responsive) but not serious HP increase.
my car actually lost torque when i removed the factory airbox,without a tune the intake just make more suction noise thats it.
It's proberly due to flow from airfilter towards your engine. When your replacing that with a CAI, your changing the flow characteristics of air coming into your engine as well.
It helps when they actually have a 30-60mph headwind to validate the test.
You guys should do a turbo pressure surge mythbusters to see if it actually damages the turbo. Because everyone loves that stustustu sound
at 2:15 why did that guy grab the other guys ass? haha
Bruhh i saw that too!
***** That was full on butthole grab hahaha
***** Not the first time I've seen these dudes do it. Must be an Aussie thing...
I noticed that but thought I was seeing things
I think there's a little difference in technique, but hey... If a guy thinks man-ass and friendship go hand-in-hand (literally), I'm not going to argue.
Please tell me I'm not the only one that noticed what happened @ 2:18.
Just playing a little grab ass.
Oh god i rewatched that part again too see if my eyes were fucking around
Jacky Lin
okay I'm not alone! Didn't expect that in a car video!!!
"Key and Peele" - "slap ass"
Thanks for this video I converted back to stock and ran over my cold air intake LoL 🤣😃 I was ruining my engine check light keep coming on got tired of fixing it 😆
Wow I feel like my life is a lie, next thing your gonna tell me is that santa isn't real!
The entire idea of cold air is that cold air is more dense and dense air makes more power. This car is turbocharged. A electronically controlled turbo increases the density of the air to a specified psi no matter what the incoming density is. Absolutely useless test.
Agreed ^^^^
Well said Dan Henderson
Real enthusiasm.
Hey Dan, PSI and density aren't the same thing. The atmosphere is at 14.7 psi. And at 14.7 psi, cold air is more dense than hot air. That's why If you stick a balloon full of hot air in the fridge it shrinks. This principal doesn't change at higher psi. If you're pumping 20 psi of cold air, you're getting more air than if it was hot.
Which like Cody said would explain why you would also get different results at higher and lower elevations due to air density. I know my K&N worked for my SRT 4 . I could drive it in 5th gear going less than 25mph / 40kmph and still spool air into the turbo. Doing a launch I could smoke the tires all the way to 5th Pipe diameter, shape and length have a lot to do with how fast the air can be accelerated through the intake into the turbo, allowing a higher density of compacted air molecules, which allows the computer to adjust for more fuel, allowing more power (in a WOT situation this is maximized). Companies who do extensive testing, such as K&N tend to achieve more nominal results.
of course a cold air intake isnt going to do anything on a skyline!
1) You need to drive the car around for few days for the ECU to learn the difference and adjust itself accordingly.
2) A drop in performance air filter will give u noticeable throttle response. Your foot will feel the difference throughout the rpm range.
3) Stay away from oil filter and stainless steel filters. They mess with your air flow sensor, your idle will become unstable.
4) The sound from your engine bay will put a smile on your face.
Okay, but what does "give u noticeable throttle response", actually mean? Is that a faster increase in volume of airflow, after moment of throttle position change? What does "mess with your air flow sensor", actually mean? Can you direct us to any measurements or other evidence of throttle response, or airflow sensor function errors, following fitment of an oiled element air filter, or "stainless steel filter"? If we're taking about specific components and specific modifications, something more specific that "your foot" makes sense.
@@assininecomment4934 ok first up about the sensors... on Oil-Based filters sometimes under heat the oil can drip onto the intake sensors (MAF Sensor, Map, depending on what your car has) there for altering the tune of the engine tricking it into running potentially leaner, therefore causing rough idle, power loss, and pinging. It also makes the emissions worse... Now about the throttle response, when you press the throttle in a stock airbox their may be a slight delay similar to turbo lag but much more minor, this can be due to a bad filter yada yada yada but when you switch to a pod filter, you open up the area at which air can enter the intake, from a small 25mm hole in the side to ALL SIDES of the filter. This can mean when you press the throttle you get INSTANT torque and even a potential power gain (a lot of factors go into that though) in my car you can definitely feel a difference in throttle responsivness, but after driving it on track it got a very stalley idle and pinged at very low rpms. it is old and its the first time its been driving hard in probably 2 years, so im guessing a lot of gunk has gotten onto the sensors (like i previously said) and caused these issues... one thing i will not agree on is the "ecu drive it for a few days" thing, thats utter bullshit. after 1 or 2 pulls and hell just starting it will make the ecu do 99% of the changes, and most cars with pod filters are tuned to be fuel efficient anyway so a ecu tune or reflash WILL see gains on these engines... ralliart ecu reflashes in my car see up to 10% or 6kw gains which as they said IS a noticible gain.......................... overall this has taken me 20 minutes of my life to type, why did i do this... you BETTER apreciate this ahahhahah
@@cheetahgaming3642 - Thanks, mate - do appreciate your time and thought. Yes, I am familiar with those grubby sensor woes, though not personally. I guess it could be minimised by moving the air filter to a position where it won't absorb much engine bay heat - otherwise the whole (potential) benefit of any 'cold air' system is utterly negated. Even prior to any tuning changes, and even if *peak* power output isn't necessarily increased by some (millions of) free-flow / 'sport' air filter systems - maybe the quicker response, and increase in power and/or torque outputs *earlier* in the rev range, are there to be enjoyed.
i think on turbo cars, doesn't matter if it's cold air intake or hot air intake, the air will be compressed by the turbo which will get hot anyways. So the intercooler is doing most of the cooling for the air before get into the manifold
I used to think this too but the intercooler doesn't cool all air to the same temperature. If intake air temps are higher, intercooler air temp will be higher as well, which means less dense, less oxygen. Even with a turbo superheating the intake air, if it's colder to start, it will be colder once it reaches your engine
To use a dyno with this, you must also simulate the air through the front of the car relative to the speedometer...
Exactly
They are... Cant you see the giant blue fan in front of the car 🤦 he also said the word the fan
honestly, when it comes to this stuff I just feel like it depends on the car, the R32 skyline already has a system to feed cooler air through the engine for max performance because of the fact that that is what the car was designed for, performance, no need to fix a stock performance air intake system with another performance air intake system you know? However there are some cars out there that have a very restrictive intake system, and it is on those specific cars that you might gain something, do I believe a cold air, or short ram intake can add 20%? hell no, however you might gain a horsepower or 2 with it. Not significant, however at least it is something.
Are the gains from placing the filter outside the engine compartment? Or is it from the longer intake tube ? It would be awesome if you guys could test one of those intake cryogenic cooling systems 👍
thanks you guys save me a lot of money
That flexihose is countering part of it's gain. Denser air, but more resistance. This should be repeated with piping with a smooth internal surface, and with only enough length to get outside the car.
very good point.
yea def need a true pipe
the only improvement without one over a stock air box is a less restrictive filter
not really much this type of upgrade will do if ur not at least gasket matched
with port and polish preferably
Yep, a baffled inside wil greatly hinder airflow. And means the tube is thinner than it looks
CAIs are only effective on modern cars when the engine has been tuned to make use of the cooler intake temps and denser air charge. Just throwing a CAI on a car and expecting more power is silly.
The gains are real, but even less on turbocharged car. On a N/A car gains are going to be around 5%, no tune is necessary because the ecu sees air density and air temperature and adds timing and fuel accordingly. Why mcm used a turbo car was either to prove their point or were not thinking because a turbo runs off hot exhaust gases.
Yes it will set off the CEL, but if you reset the computer (i.e. Unhook the battery, turn the key in the ignition a few times to totally drain the power from the computer, and reconnect the battery) it goes off because resetting the computer forces it to adjust the fuel flow to the engine to correct the air/fuel ratio. And that is when you see gains. Just adding more air will make it run too lean and cut your power. If the computer adjusts to the extra air, it will add extra fuel to compensate, and with both more air AND more fuel, you can produce more power.
Justus Smith You're partly right about wiping the ECU by disconnecting the battery.
Disconnecting the power supply forces the ECU to lose all fine tuned fuel maps that are saved in volatile memory (memory that needs constant power). Disconnecting the battery for a long period ends up sending the ECU into a failsafe mode that provides an air/fuel mixture of roughly 14.7:1.
Once the ECU starts fine tuning the mixture, spark timing, valve timing and all the other aspects, It will push toward tuning itself to predetermined limits set by the manufacturer.
Ultimately, the ECU will still throw a CEL and go into "limp mode" if it still detects more airflow than it can handle (I.E. an aftermarket intake). The only way to get rid of the CEL issue is either with a custom tune, or using the stock airbox.
Ning3n couldn't you just upgrade the fuel pump/injectors so it could handle the extra air?
Justus Smith The ECU still needs to have its maps altered to make use of the added fuel, in addition to the added air.
You guys are nuts!!!! I'd love to party with you cowboys! Love your videos!!!! Y'all have saved me a LOT of money - THANKS!!!!!
You guys forgot to tune the car as well. Just adding a new intake won't yield any benefits until you have the proper fuel injectors, ecu mapping for airflow to gas ratio and placement of the man sensor is crucial as well. You'll probably gain about 10hp on a 200hp car. It's not much but where the torque band slouched, you'll see the gains there. It's not just slap on and you're ready to go. The computer in the car is mapped for stock hardware.
MAF sensor*
I completely agree with that, but most people believe you just change the filter and make gains. I think that's the myth that's being busted here. Ultimately if you want to gain power by letting more/cooler air in, you need to deal with getting it out more efficiently too so an uprated intake is useless without a bit of exhaust work. Although your comment suggests you probably know that
You dont need new injectors for a cold air intake🤦🏽♂️and you shouldnt need a full tune either. Unplug the battery to reset the ECU and the MAF should correct for the increased density
this test is misleading and confusing to most people. this car is designed for high performance already. if you replace the intake on a stock car that was designed to reduce noise and save gas, then you will probably see a difference when you remove the small restrictive plastic ribbed pipes. you will see even more of a difference if it is taking in fresh cold air than if it was taking it from the hot engine bay.
yes yes, again correct. this video sucks
Another problem is that this car is turbocharged. It is basically gonna do whatever it is gonna do unless you can keep it even more cool. A natural aspirated engine can se minor HP gains from a CAÍ.
Youre right...and the car is not moving, wich means it is not capting the right air flow
best way to test something like this is to have an old car with no ecu, no maf sensors, and maybe even carburetors. then you really do have more airflow
Agreed
I agree.....there are too many sensors on cars generally today to make gains with a CAI.
True to a degree. With modern cars control systems keep the air fuel mixture, etc. with much more precision. So with an old style carburetor changing the inlet temperature or restriction changed air mass flow and likely the mixture. Still even in a modern engine, colder, denser air should mean more mass flow and more power,
Thank you for making this. You've saved me the trouble of doing this. I was seriously considering doing this for my 4runner.
You could still do it I know it’s late but it does improve sound
6:55 Rake loves it.
I have a wicked ass idea...what if they engineered a way with a small styrofoam box with dry ice for the air filter to suck in sub zero arctic cold ass air to cool everything off and see how that would work??
Sorry I was taking a shit watching this video and that's usually how great inventions come to mind..but yea, have a go at it and post the results...
Atropolis24 There's an episode of Mythbusters or maybe Powerblock on Spike. (it's been a while) that shows them putting bags of ice on the intakes of a drag car and reducing it's 1/4 miles times.
+Atropolis24 Hey genius dry ice is solid carbon dioxide which would then be flowing in large quantities into your intake drastically reducing your oxygen levels causing your car to lose power/stall/break.
+Atropolis24 The rate that the air passes through the ice is too fast for there to be any significant heat transfer. The ice would also melt pretty quickly.
one bad thing with dry ice is you will be sucking in carbon dioxide instead of o2
+tomelliott9 Dry ice doesn't melt, it's not water.
try it with a normally aspirated car where your not going through an intercooler between the air intake and the engine..
Yes and no... Yes, it would be a better test WITHOUT all the FI plumbing and in reality a Intercooler IS a CAI in effect if the goal is to lower induction air temps...
But in reality, no, CAI's like they're testing do nothing to a car on a dyno and only a tiny TINY bit (if anything) on an average car moving at speed. I've done this on my MK1 2.0L 16v swapped GTi track car (won't do it on the rally cars cause they already breathe out of the cab or the side glass induction in-let depending on the stage/course)... I moved the Intake down to the bottom of the bumper and all it actually did was make the filter get dirtier faster. I was actually faster with the previous set-up by .13sec, but that could just be lap variance and my point is the CAI did NOTHING to an NA engine that is built to breathe and has a low restriction exhaust system. However on a cold misty day, I managed my best lap yet, by over .64sec and I could feel more power all around the rev-range. This is why Rally-cars run water injection on the intake, much like a cold misty day it cools the intake temp and increases the air-density more effectively then just moving the intake down low does. BOTH of those things combined could actually do quite a bit in the right conditions. That's the other thing, in wet rainy climates, running a CAI down near the ground only increases the chance of water induction (hydro-locking is no bueno) and in some cases on wet days when the air is already cool and damp it can be the "straw that broke..." in that it won;t allow the engine to get up to proper operating temp and if the car has a "fifth cold start injector" it'll mean the engine runs rough and way too fuel heavy killing power and fuel econ.
Outside atmospheric temp and air-density make WAY more difference and the simple moving of the intake to down lower on the bumper/grill does little to change the charge temp. It's pretty interesting as I Daily Drive a 22RE 1st Gen 4Runner/Hilux Surf and on cold rainy days (here in Oregon, those happen all the time) it pulls harder and get's better mileage, and on hot summer days I get worse mileage and have less power... it's SLIGHT but it's noticeable to me. Putting a Snorkel on the truck did nothing to up the power in the warmer weather. It still runs stronger on cold rainy days.
In this case, the CAI was already THERE from the factory and was just a small part of an engineered engine/drive-train designed to make power. On an average car it will do nothing but give you a louder induction "sucking" noise... which, funny enough, a LOT of people can psychologically convince themselves is "more power" and that they can "feel it".
Thanks for an epic answer! maybe a psychological difference is worth the few dollars. I watched a video recently featuring the guy who designed the F-type ad he said the air intakes on road cars are so optimized these days that any generic replacement wont e as good on any car made in the last 8 years or so. He recommended it only if you had massively increased he engine need for air with chips and turbo back exhausts bored out etc.. so that bears out exactly what you're saying.
***** Cheers mate, in reality I just talk too much hahahaha... you've hit the nail on the head with OEM's too, cars today are SO much more volumetricaly/fuel efficient that really slapping on some $100 tube that moves the air-intake to a different place doesn't really do much and in some cases will actually DECREASE power. That's not to say that CAI's in general are stupid and useless (they're not and the GT-R has always had one from the factory), just that it's only ONE PART of a larger system. The old adage "an engine is an air pump" is still true today. I look at it like this: If you spend every day in the gym working on one single muscle, have you really made yourself "stronger" as a whole??? Modding engines is the same way. You have to look at baseline numbers, power curves, power delivery points and on and on and then do modifications to improve the engine where it needs it. And again, JUST like the vid you watched, these days, OEM's (car companies) are doing SO much to improve efficacy in the hunt for better fuel econ that they're making cars more powerful and harder to "improve" with simple little add-ons like these. It's nothing like "tuning" was even 10-15 years ago where engines weren't nearly as highly engineered for efficiency. Making more power and getting better mileage/lower fuel consumption out of an engine are often very similar processes. Certainly most, even extreme performance engines, can make "more" power, but most of the time you're either moving WHERE the power comes in around the rev-range, or your sacrificing reliability and drive-ability in the process of making that power (there are some exceptions, but that's a pretty good general rule of thumb). One of my old MKII Jettas made 265whp (!!!) on the dyno from a 16v 2.0L but it was TERRIBLE to drive on the road cause the cam I had to use was so "lope-y" and peaky and it made it's power so high up in the rev range that it just wasn't a good street car and really didn't do all that much better at the track. So yeah, I made more power, but at what cost??? Anyway...
See, told you I talk too much... Best to ya mate,
I think the "shop vac" hose could definitely restrict
damn that skyline is beautiful!
Is a nice looking car..
That car is the same as my mate's!Same color too...Skyline GTT with the RB25DET NEO engine. :-)
jon doe no shit it’s the best looking car til this day
It's basically stock, looks nothing special.
9:37 PEOPLE THIS IS MCM always wait past the credits
Cold air can increase power. Simple fact. However, exactly as they stated in the video the air actually going into the engine was staying pretty much constant. So, this only means that the cold air going into the filter wasn't cool enough to overcome the heat in the turbo and piping in the engine bay to make a noticeable difference. I'm not saying cai is worth all the hype but it has potential. Also, todays vehicles are computer controlled. Fine adjustments are made by the pcm/ecm to run similarly in all conditions. This cai can show its most noticeable effect on the street on a cold fall evening in naturally aspirated and carbureted vehicle. Then you can definitely see and feel a performance gain and could possibly even see the 20% increase they claim.
If you say those gains can only be seen on a carburated and computer controlled vehicle, I'm all with you xDD lmao
I have to respectfully disagree on part of what you stated here. While you may see a very slight increase to the horsepower at the wheels, you will never under any circumstance see a 20% improvement in power at the wheels with just a different air filter. 225hp / 0.8 = 285. That would be claiming a 60hp increase at the wheels in this instance. From a $20 air filter? No way.
I'll give you an example. I have a 450hp V8 in my vehicle. It has two 3" air inlets and two filters (one behind each headlight) from the factory. A major aftermarket brand makes a "cold air intake" kit for the car. The previous owner included one in the sale, so I put it on for fun. While the car had more induction noise (less plastic to muffle noise), it was not any more powerful. And that's with a large n/a air-sucking motor. And unless the air induction system was unbelievably horribly designed, it wouldn't make any larger of a difference on a smaller car.
Yes, having colder air helps reduce the temp of the intake charge and improve the efficiency of combustion (and thus create more power). And you're right that driving a car on a cold winter day vs a hot summer day makes a difference. But that's 40 degrees F vs 90 degrees F, and it's still just a slight improvement in power...maybe 2% tops. Going from 70 degrees F to 90 degrees F, even with "more flow," just cannot improve power by 20%. Truthfully, the only way a CAI is worth the investment is if you're just looking for style or more induction noise.
As others have said you need a retune to get any extra power from most mods. You've shown the cold air keeps the air into the motor cooler throughout rpm range. Cooler intake charge means denser air but you need to give more fuel to take advantage of it.
I've personally logged a 1lb+/min increase in airflow by simply adding some metal tubing to move the intake filter from the stock location to down in the wheel well on a 1g awd dsm. More air = more potential power plain and simple.
great video and methods.
I wonder would the 5.7% whp come out to a higher wHP yeild at higher boost levels.
5whp at stock boost maybe that would be 15 whp at 18 psi.
thanks for the video
Guys, if you expect gains from intake with no ECU adjustments to compensate, it probably won't happen. There gains to be made otherwise the whole industry would be faking their dyno data. I'm sure they do it under their own ideal conditions. And these "cold" air intakes are not really effective because they are in the engine compartment.
I'll see for myself next week when I install the Dinan Carbon Fiber Cold Air Intake (a true cold air completely insulated system that takes air from the lowest part of the car in the front fender) to mate with my Dinan S2 software upgrade. This intake is totally insulated and has mainly carbon fiber walls and it doesn't replace the stock intake but rather supplements/adds more air (40º cooler than stock air) to the stock intake.
So far, adding a BMW M Performance exhaust with the software has made noticeable diffrence...the wheels skid more with the same driving style and intensity.
We will see if the intake addition makes a noticeable increase in performance.
Keep hearing that you need to adjust the ECU for this to work. The ECU knows what the incoming air temperature and adjusts the fuel curve to compensate. The whole point of electronic fuel injection is that you don't need to tune the car for different environmental changes.
When I hear that a CAI works best with a tune I think of that movie GO where the girl selling the fake ecstasy says you will feel it work better if you smoke a lot of pot.
Jim Fallowfield
Well Jim, I'm not a mechanic or engineer. But I imagine that although companies want to make profit, they do have to have some data to back up their claims, however ideal conditions they use to come up with the numbers, they are still there. This video most likely doesn't show the intake accessory in the manner that the factory did their testing. Is that realistic? Of course not, you can't trust companies for their inflated numbers. But I'll take the path of personal experience, so if you will forgive me, I will see for myself if that $1200 I just spent really made a difference. I already spent 1300 on the BMW exhaust and it certainly made a noticeable difference with same style of driving so that is why I reserve judgement.
Too many factors to consider so can't say universally that it is worthless or worthwhile...either way.
matreyia if you want to see the best gains disconnect your battery to reset your fuel trims and let the fuel system relearn it with that air intake set up. then you will know you wasted money. the best way to gain the slight amount of hp is to just swap out your intake tube to one without any noise baffles.
John Mann That can be done without disconnecting the battery on an e93.
Should I even ask you if you know the Dinan CAI system for the e93 and how it works? From your words, it does not seem you know the system. There is no swapping out anything, there is no replacing the stock intake. Every is stock, the only difference is there is a supplemental forced induction system configured to add 40º cooler air to mix with the stock intake. Not only is there additional air, that air is also 40º cooler. And the Dinan software ECU upgrade is configured to take advantage of the extra cooler air. Right now, the Dinan software is not taking advantage of the intake as it was intended to do...so...
I can come back here to report my impressions after next week when the intake system is installed. Or I can stay away if people don't want to hear it because they already know everything in every case. It could end up impressing me with noticeable gains like the M Performance exhaust I just installed, which immediately integrated to the Dinan software to increase output. Since I did not expect this gain, I would say that it is not imaginary or placebo...nor are my tires lying to me.
matreyia You say the intake pulls in air that is 40 degrees cooler. If your factory intake is already pulling air from outside the engine bay, how is it going to be 40 degrees cooler?
2:17 Let's all play a game of grab ass!
"Come on man...just one more slap ass!, One more..."
"No! Nobody likes this, stop it!"
Thank you fellas
Ive noticed a throttle response in every car/truck Ive ever installed a "cai" , in . Mind you , ive used only reputable brands . Injen , Afe , K&N , etc . Noticeable difference every time , plus adds to the driving experience.
They should have tested the various CAI systems , K&N , SS Vortex , Mace , on a car that already has a good intake , no wonder the improvements weren't that great .
+1
Mario kart edition r34 😂😂😂 had me laughing all day
I put a k&n panel filter in my 986 Boxster s. Made a positive difference for me. Car was instantly more responsive and sharp and I picked up speed through the gears easier
The common sense of this is if you add a cold air intake you will be pushing colder and denser air into your engine so you need more fuel to compensate and keep the air:fuel ratio similar so you don't run lean. If you upgraded the fuel pump and/or injectors you would have seen more gains
Wow so much misinformation in this comments section. The small adjustments are barely going to affect the injector duty & are certainly not going to max out the stock fuel pump.
I really do call bullshit on this "mythbusting". Air intakes on your average car are designed to be quiet, not "performance" or efficient. They often are fitted with baffles that decrease the diameter of the inlet pipe to quiet down the engine. If your car has a MAF (which it will if its fuel injected), a unrestricted intake will let your engine suck in more air which then will be compensated by the ECU which detects the increased airflow rate with the MAF and increases the amount of fuel injected. More air + more fuel = more power. Sure thats limited, but couple it with an exhaust, a bigger throttle body, a ECU tune and you can potentially make good power.
I think this would have been different if testing the car on the road.
yeah it would
very true i would like to see this
Mugd
Bhgv
I installed a CAI because it was simply a tighter tolerance than my factory box.
Factory unit kept coming apart and the joined components had unacceptable gaps.
Once installed, the CAI enabled more consistent performance.
Please rerun the test on a naturally aspirated engine with a modified throttle body and adapter.
I would almost do these mods because they look cool but fer fucks sake I need to get some bang for the buck.
You guys are a riot and I liked your creativity for testing. Best vid on the subject.
However, its not a CAI unless the inlet in located outside of the engine bay. The setups (Other than that last one) that you guys were using are RAM-Air intakes.
Top 10 reasons people install cold air intakes
1 - requires zero mechanical skills
2 - it is loud
3 - it is shiny
4 - Need For Speed says it will give you power
5 - makes one of your racing stickers legit
6 - it can be done quickly
7 - you can brag that you "modded" your car
8 - you can justify the expense to wife/girlfriend by saying it will save on gas
9 - it is difficult to screw up the install
10 - even though it does not increase power, you can tell your friends it does.
So fucking true...
***** Oh Jeffery SImonds... Where will your stupidity and lack of knowledge end??? Porsche does NOT use "ram air" dumbfuck. It uses variable length intake runners, but no... not "Ram Air". Fucking poser.
I was joking....
Lol you dumb as fuck son. Probably driving a shit box.
XSVterror18 lol. whats the matter? Hit too close to home? You the guy at cruise night with your hood popped showing off your CAI and talking how you making so much power now?
Use one of your A/C vent redirecting the cold air into the air box where the filter is at. For extra bust put the air recycling button on the a/c .
I have a K&N filter on my truck not for power gains, but because I don't like buying new filters every year. :/
honestly I wish the previous owner of my F150 kept the stock airbox.. the K&N lets too much dirt into the engine for my tastes. (and yes, I properly clean and oil it every 3000 miles)
My truck is an old beater lol its a 93 Sonoma, carburetor air system, so there isn't a standard efi airbox, the k&n works well for me
+Zeus Longmire i guess if it's a beater. I know I did much worse to my '92 accord!
Maybe you oil it too much/often? You are suppose to clean/oil it double that amount. I had to google and convert that to km, the directions is clean/oil every 1 000 - 1 500 km (around 6 000-9 000 miles).
+Tobias Åkerblom 1600 km is 1000miles. I think your math or typing errored
It makes me wonder what kind of differences one might find if you tune with the stock air box vs. CAI.
probably none, the initial air is still hot and since you are compressing it all you will do is cool atmospheric pressure, better off putting a snorkel on for ram air intake
Well of course you're not seeing any gains! You can't just slap on a different intake and expect any meaningful difference without properly tuning the car!!! Many cars will gain a fair amount of power by doing this, especially combined with a header-back exhaust upgrade.
Exactly! This video was meant to educate the idiots who think they are fast because they have an intake.
i agree ,the engine needs to be reprogrammed ,what is invovled in that step ?
Is it expensive to have your engine tuned once you buy a new air filter ?
You should be measuring charge temp at the intake manifold. The intercooler might be doing its job regardless of temp at the filter, and also the factory airbox pretty much is a cold air intake. I think cold air intake would show higher gains on an N/A engine
i have one on my bmw 328i because my old one was busted and it was a pretty penny to replce it so i just got k&n for 269 and works well for me and gives me a nice engine sound and screw buying filters and to fully test this try being on open road with air going in and weather change
Basically people go to the K&N website, copy paste the shit they wrote on there, and then try to be their own engineers and act like they know just as much as an engineer and that they agree with the bull K&N wrote on their site.
So in other words if I put a stick on top of your car, and write down that it enhances your car aerodynamics, and causes downforce, and put a $100 price tag on it... they would believe it
Surely you need to remap the ECU with all these mods to work properly. Sticking a modded exhaust and air filter with the ECU in stock format will confuse the ECU resulting in lose of power. Remapping the ECU with mods will increase the power and performance. They all go hand in hand.
HEY MARTY AND MOOG, I was wondering if you could do a video on how to turbocharge a relatively small motorcycle. I have 2011 cbr250r and she goes quite well but I want her to go faster
lol at Moog's face on the black background!
It might be like cooling a radiator. You need to have air forced into the system. Driving cools down a radiator, cool air and air flow would be increased if driving.
That's exactly what I was gonna say
they mythbust nothing
CAI's don't do much or even hurt on stock sytems, since the ECU is configured for stock filter
but they are a mod that make you able to gain much more power with a decent tune than with stock filter
on mkIV forum (supra) there is a test with Blitz, Apexi, K&N, HKS and some other filters vs stock
the test car was tuned and all filters gave around 14bhp gain, while the blitz(metal mesh) and hks(foam) were VERY poor at filtering and K&N filtered reasonably
The apexi gave most bhp gain (although only 0,5) but was most definately the best filter. Probably even better than stock paper filter
all I wanna say is: CAI on stock does only give sound
CAI with mods can help
when using pod or panel filter, use one which also filters well (injen/amsoil, apexi, aem dryflow for example)
true idiot right here if you think ecu controls air filters lmao thats like saying an MLB player plays football and ive been a mechanical engineer for 3 years and a master mechanic for 4 years
Dan Ilges
That's a horrible analogy. Plus the ecu does control air/fuel mixture, which can be tuned to compensate for colder air.
Dan Ilges lol appearently you're the idiot and try reading right
i never said ecu control the filter
i said the ecu is CONFIGURED , TUNED for stock paper filters and according flow
jason is right
stock ecu is tuned for/with stock paper filters and intake tubing and making airflow more or less restricted or getting hotter or colder air into the engine may or may not work with stock ecu software
some cars will have more power, some run less well, and with most it doesnt doe much difference
Dan, you might consider study a bit before making dumb statements on here
they are not understanding air density, they are just moving warm shop air faster so the temp probe is being cooled, not actually reducing the air temp thus not increasing the amount of O2 going in
and as llllnemo said you'd need to reprogram to get any gain on a modern car
Brian Catnut I agree with the shop air comment, I was thinking the same thing. I do own a '14 mustang and bought a CAI for it and without a tune got a very noticeable gain in HP and FT/LBS.
I just created my own air intake. 2009 VW Rabbits are not easy due to 2 small hoses coming into the main 3 inch plastic hose. It's also a bit tight.
I didn't do it for any noticeable horsepower gains. The main reason i did it was because I installed a PCV system catch can. I used 3/4 inch inside diameter to hook up the catch can. I didn't want to use a smaller hose cuz the idea is to let the crank case breathe; don't choke it.
With this 3/4 hose I couldn't snap onto place the stock plastic engine cover.
I took care of both issues at the same time. I created an air intake system and my PCV catch can is in place.
Everything now breathes easier; my crank case and air coming into the throttle body.
Remember too those things called fans that are up there in the front. Engine gets hot....the fans turn on and blow in air from the outside. Plus your grill let's air into the engine bay while driving.
Get creative starting with the basics.
Thanks, guys, for demolishing the myths about cold air intakes!
I hope that in the 7 years since you did this, you have learned what head loss is. That long-ass pipe costs power because of its length alone.
That's why skylines suck. Your right. That's why American muscle is better at delivering power. Cold air intakes in general are complete bullshit and there is no need for them on rice rockets .
It has never been about the under 1% gain, it is about the under 1% gain 30 different places on the car.
Exactly this. 1% in many areas adds up. This is what separates the fast cars from the fastest.
Anyone who saves me time and money deserves a Thumbs Up and you got it!
John Webb all I would do if you don’t want to spend any money then get rid of the resonator boxes if your car has any(this quiets the intake noise and also restricts power) and then cut the box open more on the side of the filter that is exposed to the air first
My 99' Dodge Ram 1500 has Ram Air Intake like what worked in last test, it's actually built into the frame starting above the left front light going over the tire and letting dirt etc to pass through while the plastic manifold forms the long end of the T to the filter. My truck is rated for 15 average mpg, 17 highway, I get about 16.5 average and almost never take highway. And that's with a broken leaf spring not to mention it's got 133,000miles and being 18 years old. The two modifications you could do with minimal tools, if your goal is MPG, is to vent and remove the hexcomb to your catalytic converter(s) or straight pipe it. And the other is if you bought a used vehicle, just reset your ECM(s) by disconnecting the battery(s) and then reconnect when you need to drive it, it will learn how you drive after that and make things go smoother overall.
Guys this is not an R34 GT-R, it is an R34 GT-T. The GT-T came with the RB25DET Neo engine and is rear wheel drive only. It is still a cool car.
Everyones looking for the RB26DETT!
Jake Lund Yes, and?
Just saying, it's amusing how a lot of people assume the R34 is always the RB26DETT (Godzilla) I wonder if people have ever heard of the GTS-t.
Jake Lund Yeah, most have probably never seen one. It's a pretty good car though.
no, it is a Skyline GT (R34), which is the base model.
So supposedly part of the benefit is due to having a smooth aluminum tubing to create a smooth airflow. The last ducting was accordion shape. Imagine the difference
Hey mates, that skyline is turbocharged and intercooled. The air is heated when charged, then cooled through the cooler, thus you need to super cool the cooler to get the best results!
Awesome vid guys what about a short ram cold air intake together ? So basically a short ram intake the shortest possible then the a L bend stright up and another L bend to bring the cone filter out the top of the hood ? That would be really interesting
I think it really depends on the vehicle. On a vehicle with a minimally restricted system like that Skyline, a CAI won't do you much good. But my truck was pretty restricted with the factory air box. While I don't know for sure if the CAI improved my overall power, I did notice a big difference in throttle response and a notable difference in fuel economy.
can you really know the difference if youre not actually driving it. no way that fan is strong enough to simulate running at like 200km/h
why cant other car videos be this hype with EDM love it lol
My experience told me that filter makes no difference but the length of the intake does. The longer the tunnel is, more high rpm power it will make and vis-versa but it won't make that much of a difference. Thanks for myth busting
My sensei has a chevy vega he drag races. It does 8.55 in the 1/4 mile, he just smoked a mclaren the other day. His philosophy is that every bit counts, people used to tell him not to do this or that mod because it'll only add a few horsepower. So yea, if you're just slapping a CAI into your vw or honda with nothing else it's not going to do anything. If you're trying to build a fast car, just remember that it all adds up.
Exactly this. Every 1 hp here or there can eventually add up. It's just like weight reduction. A few kilos here and there and you'll have soon saved a significant portion of weight.
well said
This is a bit deceiving. While your correct in the sense that slapping on random filters and tubes usually will not show power gains, a properly designed intake along with accompanying ecu tuning can indeed yield significant increases. The fact is though to take advantage of most aftermarket intakes that flow more air, you have to then go correct the ECU's map for air/fuel and timing to compensate for the additional air charge. We have seen gains upwards of 30 wheel HP on modern turbocharged vehicles after a simple cold air intake/retune. The gains are less on normally aspirated engines, but we have still seen gains of around 10 wheel HP on larger displacement 6 & 8 cylinder engines after a well designed Intake was installed AND the tune was adjusted accordingly. Tuning is key to making power, period!
+Joe Doole This.
I was going to say, more air, same fuel means lean running engine. Not surprised to see loss
+Fuel4Torque kinda how I feel. Maybe this is a bad example, but take my computer. By putting a bigger fan on my cpu isn't going to make it run faster, it's going to make it run cooler / maybe more effeciently and potentially prolong it's lifespan, but it isn't going to run any faster.
However, if I decide that I want to over clock my CPU, I would want to opt for more efficient CPU fan/heatsink for it, so that I know the temperature is efficient enough to not burn out by overclocking, or in car terms modding / additions that provide actual gains.
When those increases are made, I know my CPU is getting enough air flow and at a hopefully cooler temperature than stock and won't break/melt/burn any parts from additional heat that's released in energy due to the actual gains (same for ICE [internal combustion engines]).
Now, I'm definitely not a car expert and don't claim to be. I know just enough to be dangerous by being able to take my car apart, but not put it back together.
Now, I understand ICE's function much differently than a CPU on a computer. I suspect the comparison can still be made, and hope someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
I know ICE needs air, fuel, and spark to run or fire. I imagine the temperature of that air doesn't matter at the point of modification, more than ensuring flow of that air is maintained and to a temperature below the hottest temperature the engine can withstand before breaking.
Again, I imagine this may provide potential longevity of an engine (disregarding water etc getting into cold air) as would a CPU, but not inherently make it run faster.
I guess what I'm trying to say is just because something runs more efficiently doesn't always translate to an increase of performance.
I'm sure someone smarter on here will probably prove me wrong, but that's my perception of it.
Well said. this video gets a down vote for not being entirely truthful
actually it's not bringing in *more* air per say, it's less restrictive so less work for the engine to do. Kind of like using a bigger straw to drink a soda - if you sip at the same rate with both straws, you won't suck in more soda, but it'll be easier.
I used to use free flow filters years ago and noticed some decent top end increases 5-10 mph they where all cars without e.c.u's just points or early electronic ignition ie cortina's, maxi's and oxford's no engin mapping correcting for emissions might be worth using something like that on some of your breathing mods
I'm curious to see if doing the exhuast at the same time give you the noticeable 10 percent difference you guys mentioned. If it can inhale better but can't exhale any better than you could be canceling out your gains