Is Religion Just Death Anxiety?
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- This clip is taken from Within Reason episode #25 with Andrew Mark Henry, which can be viewed in full here: • Where Does Religion Co...
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The examples cited in this video are derived from a TEDx talk by Sheldon Solomon, one of the original developers of terror management theory. You can watch it here: • Humanity at the Crossr...
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I can still remember the moment I realized that my parents would die someday... I was about 5 years old, lying in bed, and just started to cry uncontrollably.
While I can’t remember it myself. I had something similar, but the reverse 😂.
One day my mother pointed out where she, my dad and my sister had lived.
So I asked (3, 4y old), “Why didn’t I live there? Where was I?”
When my mother explained I hadn’t yet been born, I burst out crying because I thought it was so sad I didn’t exist (then).
Same experience, at the same age! I cried most nights about it for weeks, probably on and off for months. It is the most profound shock to realise mortality.
@@leod-sigefast These are all great stories and I had a similar reaction which I think may have lasted to age 10 or so. How (and when) children acquire the defences against such anxiety is obviously a crucial question but it seems it hasn't received a great deal of attention.
You had an existential crises at 5. Damn that’s young to experience that.
I remember my 5 year old son working out that HE would die one day, as well as us, and he was sobbing about it at bed time. The temptation to sugar coat it...to concoct a story....to lie, was very strong. But I resisted and just said "that is way, way longer off than you've been alive so why worry about it now". He was not consoled. However after about 3-4 days of crying each night, he accepted it and got over it.
I was thinking at the time how easy it would be to just buy into the religious stories about how death isn't final and how we'd all meet again. But it is final and we won't. And pretending otherwise does seem to help at all. I've seen religious people handle death and they looked every bit as upset about it as anyone else.
I can only speak to my own experience, but it was a cope for me. I had slipped away from Christianity after years of doubt and had been agnostic for ~a year before death anxiety started getting to me. I had a mental breakdown that ended with me converting back to Christianity. It was comforting at first but once I started diving deeper and deeper into the religion, I knew I had to be honest with myself and accept that I couldn't believe it.
The fear of death doesn't go away, but I'm learning to face it on my own terms, not through some religious filter.
Losing the attachment to the self can help a lot. I managed to lose a whole deal of it through eastern philosophy and to be honest, psilocybin. I hope you find the right tool for the job
@@BurnigLegionsBlade Is that Max Stirner on your pp? Seems like you're a man of culture as well!
@@BurnigLegionsBlade I've adopted some eastern philosophy since leaving the faith. In particular the focus on the impermanence of the self and even the non-existence of what we traditionally would call the 'self' has helped me immensely.
I wouldn't be against trying psychedelics for the sake of deeper reflection but if I were to do it I'd need a controlled environment with a good trip-sitter, and I'd need to be in a better spot with my mental health.
@@yoshigottagun Schoppenhauer argued for asceticism (aka the denial of the self). He reminded me of Emil Cioran when I read him!
@@guestguest5555 Haha yes, thank you
Many religions aren't afterlife focussed. The ancient polytheist religions were much more about controlling things happening in this life: for a good harvest, for victory in battle, for protection against disease. But notice: starvation, war, and disease are things that can kill you. So it is still about dealing with death, just in the way of trying not to die instead of ensuring an afterlife. Also fits with the research about how people become more materialistic when reminded about death.
Actually, my religion, Zoroastrianism, is about making the world a better place.
Judaism is also focused on tikkun olam, the healing of the world, and the importance of caring for those in need and the vital role of true reconciliation in life. The christianity that grew from messianic Jewish cults is a giant step backwards.
@@jacobus57 Why do you say a "giant step backwards"? I'm just curious. Peace
I was agnostic and atheist until I dated somebody in the occult Satanism that sorta deal. One night she had me look in a book of poetry and in it she wrote "I sold my soul to find out what I already knew" that same night she got possessed tried jumping out my 2nd floor window I stopped that from happening she looks at me eyes black and says I'm gonna call the cops and say that you beat me. I felt a very negative force. I called out to God she hit the floor. I started sorta believing in this mother goddess since I had interactions while on psychedelic drugs I started singing the song mother by pink Floyd she gets a wicked curled smile on her face I realize something is wrong and I call on Jesus and suddenly she begins seizing her eyes are rolling behind her head as she's saying 666 666 666 f Jesus please don't send me back to hell it feels like I'm dying on a loop right now. I have the testimony on my channel... also some of the pictures my ex shared or drew. It gets more obvious that satan if the "god" of this world and the father of lies. Once you really look into how this world operates in a basic sell your soul for power join this secret society do this and that and you can have power or wealth. People who really start to look at how the world is knows that we are near the end.
@starsareangels
Wow, you should write for horror movies because that was a marvelously enthralling made-up story
I'm a hospice nurse so I'll give some of my thoughts from just from my anecdotal experiences with my patients.
A big part of my job is actually helping patients and families come to terms that my patients will be dying likely within 6 months or sooner. Surprisingly most people are able to cope with that knowledge really well and most of them contextualize it as relief of suffering rather than framing it as religious immortality. Almost all of my patients are in immense amounts of pain or suffering from an illness (my job is to make it as painless and comfortable as possible) and they almost always mention how they'll be happy to see dead loved ones and it does help them with turning the experience from horrible to hopeful. It definitely does calm anxieties in patients and families when they believe that their suffering will actually have a payoff and isn't just needless pain until they're gone.
One interesting thing I've noticed is almost everyone of my patients calls out to or says that they see dead loved ones on the last couple days of their life. I've had a few atheist patients who had the same experiences. I'm not saying this is proof of an afterlife, but since it's such a prevalent phenomenon I can absolutely understand how the idea of an afterlife was created by people to explain almost every person seeing their dead loved ones before death. I'd be interested to see a study done looking at cultures that primarily believe in reincarnation compared to a single eternal afterlife to see if the phenomenon is influenced by their religious and cultural belief or if it's just an innate mechanism that our brains use when faced with death.
The people I find clinging to religion for coping with death is usually from the families of patients rather than the patients themselves. Families can be rational about the immenent death through the entire process and even want the patient to pass quickly so that their suffering can end, but as soon as the patient dies a lot of them instantly change and are quite surprised. A lot of families try to find something important and superstitious about the day they died. "He loved rain, of course he died on a rainy day" "Today is her dad's birthday, of course she chose today." Often when they find significance to tie to a family member's death it turns their mood from greif to celebration and makes it a lot easier when they can call friends and family with "good news" instead of just calling about the death itself.
Overall, I personally do think religion is a large part of coping with death, I see it in my coworkers too. I'm an odd one in my field being that I can cope with death in a non-religious context but I am very very much in the minority. Being an atheist in my field isn't difficult especially because I can comfort people in a clinical context by discussing the relief of suffering and explaining that there are studies showing that the body can hear up to 2 hours before death so they likely knew they were surrounded by family. But damn am I glad that we have chaplains as part of our team because I wouldn't be able to offer the religious comforting that most people need during that time. I do think a large part of reliance on religion for coping is due to the fact that at least in America, death is so often ignored in day to day life that when it's affecting someone personally, it's most people's first time working through their actual beliefs.
Thanks for this Ryan. It's enormously informative and insightful . I get the strong impression your patients are very lucky to have you.
The denial of death in everyday life is a very significant point. To me it suggests that , if we follow Terror Management Theory's idea that many aspects of culture are designed to assuage our constant existential anxiety, then current trends of overconsumption, denial of our link to the natural world etc. may be becoming mal-adaptations in an evolutionary sense. Gloomy idea huh?
This was a fantastic comment. Thank you for posting.
Thank you profoundly for this, and for your work in the world. Hospice aided our family during that time in immeasurable ways.
Yes, thank you for your insight. I'm sure people tell you...but you really are special to be able to do your work.
Superb comment!
I am 60. I'm an atheist and am chronically ill. I have died once and almost died 3 more times. I have no fear of death. It's because it happened the same way every time and was quite pleasant. Your brain floods your body with chemicals. You forget all your pain. You start thinking of family and friends and it feels alright to go. Your brain gets a flash of life before your eyes and it is all the good things in your life. Nothing negative.
For me I can't forget that feeling when you die but you are still conscious but that consciousness is shrinking slowly second after second. When people talk about death and all the bs after I just smirk or scoff if you knew. It changes a man, my new motto is memento mori. Because i had a taste and know, I just want peace. After that experience I'm less angrier,unphased by many things...
It can depend greatly on how much love/self-esteem you've been empowered with, and the manner of the death.
@@letsomethingshine yes, I was just thinking about that. There has been some research on anxiety/isolation at death coinciding with some very negative near death experience.
It happened suddenly after struggling against an "unknown"illness at that moment. I was walking in the kitchen,the dog(rip) began to bark at me then the blackout. The thing I remembered before falling was to not hit my head on the corner of the kitchen table then the confusion( no sensations and you can't move) I still remember the screaming of my mom I understood what happened and tried my best to not stop thinking but it became harder and harder as if you're slowly melting as in a lukewarm bathtub (i became aware it's my blood)I don't know how to describe it perfectly but if we are a circle the space of that circle is shrinking beginning with the extremities like our toes and fingers
I appreciate your sharing of your experience. Ive had cancer twice in the last 16 years. I never thought about death much until I came down with cancer.
Anyhow... I personally think we experience death differently. But how can I know? You know more about a death experience than I do !
Respectfully..
Had a family member just pass this week.. and comparison to my 14 year old dog who is also slowly dying, I am envious of the dog. She's unaware of what is coming and still manages day to day without the burden of fear. All in all, I think there's a massive level of contextual coping mechanisms.
Best wishes. Stay strong
How do you know the dog doesn't understand? Seem special pleading.
I know dogs that refuse to eat nearing end of life! They seem to desire death as an alternative to life.
Most primates grieve. Some group animals the older members will suicide for the benefit of the group. To do that they must understand they will die and the benefits of their death out weigh the group.
I would be very caution in assuming humans are special and have special emotions. Maybe we have longer foresight and control over our environment.
@@72PMChambers the dog may understand the end is near, but you don't see them having panic attacks and fear about the unknown. That's the point. There's an understanding about the end of life but that is where it starts and ends. They don't spend their middle pup youth fearing about what will happen to them in ten years.
@@matthewsienzant8035 How would you know if they were though? They may have the thoughts and not be able to communicate them.
@@FahadAyaz
That's a good question to ask.
We've no way to measure that in a dog or cat or any animal. We can however observe their behaviors in both the wild and as domesticated members of a human family and with that offer our best position on that topic with what we know until better ways to acquire that data becomes available, if ever.
There is something we humans do almost constantly...we put the human in the animal.
Think about it...we train animals to do tricks on command, sometimes to perform things that humans do. (like ice-skating bears in Russia) we project our emotions and then various expectations toward animals.
We act shocked when a trained animal kills a human being clearly forgetting that said animal is still an animal that has instincts of their own separate from human instincts.
What a dog or cat may perceive regarding their own demise is speculation. Animals can mourn, we've observed this but how much more than that is something we simply don't know.
What I do know is that animals unlike humans are not emotionally indoctrinated into things like religion, politics, and beliefs of some level of immortality after a physical death, so at best I can say it's unlikely they share a human-like fear of death in the same context as we do.
They appear to accept it better than we do.
And let's be honest here...humans generally show animals far more compassion in ending their physical suffering than we ever show our own species and for that alone, I envy them, but that's just me.
Keep asking good questions.
I speak from personal experience in losing faith and this is definitely one of the themes that I hashed out to be able to still have some understanding/compassion/empathy for people that are still religious, instead of seeing them as merely irrational.
No, they have a lot of advantages. It's quite rational thinking irrationally
@@interferenzbrille_2542 I mean, rather, that the fear blocks the rational thought, and it's not so much a reward to think irrationally but painful not too... There's a slight but important distinction, I think, mainly because it works different in the brain. Fear has higher potential than reward.
@@gerardvanhelden6891 What do you mean by "fear has higher potential than reward"? I don't understand. Thanks.
@@johnbrzykcy3076 that fear is stronger.
I was agnostic and atheist until I dated somebody in the occult Satanism that sorta deal. One night she had me look in a book of poetry and in it she wrote "I sold my soul to find out what I already knew" that same night she got possessed tried jumping out my 2nd floor window I stopped that from happening she looks at me eyes black and says I'm gonna call the cops and say that you beat me. I felt a very negative force. I called out to God she hit the floor. I started sorta believing in this mother goddess since I had interactions while on psychedelic drugs I started singing the song mother by pink Floyd she gets a wicked curled smile on her face I realize something is wrong and I call on Jesus and suddenly she begins seizing her eyes are rolling behind her head as she's saying 666 666 666 f Jesus please don't send me back to hell it feels like I'm dying on a loop right now. I have the testimony on my channel... also some of the pictures my ex shared or drew. It gets more obvious that satan if the "god" of this world and the father of lies. Once you really look into how this world operates in a basic sell your soul for power join this secret society do this and that and you can have power or wealth. People who really start to look at how the world is knows that we are near the end.
Memento mori is a concept in stoicism where one contemplates their mortality and the inevitability of death. When utilised as a spiritual practise this can lead a person become more calm, happier, more peaceful, more loving ect. Basically the opposite of what those studies found. So it seems the effect of the concept of death comes down to whether the person is considering it as an evil that must be avoided at all costs or an inevitable and natural condition of being alive and something to be at the very least accepted in its entirety.
Agreed. Death is not a terror for those who have done the work to understand it, so they will not demonstrate the same aversion. Most people avoid such inner work, so remain in the grip of the majority, who see conformity as a virtue.
I have the words tattooed on my arm.
@@That_Freedom_Guy
You're just an arrogant twat. All of the effects he discribed are subconscious and they very likely apply to you as well.
This contemplation is completely useless if you come away with the idea that people dying isn't all that bad.
The correct insight to have here is an appreciation of the urgency of certain matters and of your duty to make use of your skills and knowledge before they are completely destroyed by your death.
@@MrCmon113 I would say it can be good to have a sense of urgency about things, being aware of the temporality of your existence.
It's also good to realise how little of a drop in the bucket your whole existence is. Taking yourself and your problems less seriously sometimes breaks you free of the urgency trap. This lets you get out of reaction and instinctive mode, and into more exploratory creative modes.
This is interesting. Can we have one on Pain Management vs. Terror Management 😅😊😮
Yes, it's actually the pain and torment of death more specifically that folks are afraid of. Not death itself.
Go VEGAN , NOW 🙂 .
@@perpetualpleasurist Go VEGAN , NOW 🙂 .
I love your picture!
@@perpetualpleasurist I'm sure the pain and torment is also something to fear, but I think there is a genuine fear of death itself as well. I think the thought of leaving all our most important unfinished business in the hands of others can be a reasonable fear.
I'm an atheist but I'm still struggling with the whole death thing more than the average person. I do not handle it very well for some reason. When Facebook first came out it kind of hit me as I was talking to an old friend of mine I asked her if her brother was still dating Rachel from high school and when she told me that Rachel had died 10 years previously from cancer I felt so horrible I remember sitting there thinking wow ... I'm sitting here living out my life when Rachel didn't get to live out hardly anything. barely out of her teens it may be in her lower 20s I guess... that's just so unfair. Now every time I hear about someone especially young dying it just breaks my heart severely. admittedly i do suffer from pretty bad depression also
May you be well, may you be happy, may you be at ease. It may be that every moment we have a choice as to how we will be.
Stop eating meat🥩 🤬😡🤬. Go VEGAN NOW .
I have to tell you something more horrible I'm in my mom country and today 50 children between 4-7 yo died in a traffic accident between their school bus and a heavyweight truck. All dead no survivors
Its okay to miss people when they die. But remind yourself that your feelings belong only to you. Sure, life could be happy for her, but there's no way to confirm that the joys she would experience in a longer life would be truly greater than the trauma. Where they are dead, things don't get worse. They aren't suffering. My mother died in her early thirties in a similar fashion. And though I miss her, I remind myself of what she would be experiencing right now AS a dead person, and that is nothingness. My grief is from my envy of no longer having her presence. It has nothing to do with HER feelings. I can't cry for her any more than I cry for every human egg that goes unfertilized. I'm sorry that your heart hurts. The only thing that ended my natural fear of death is experiencing pain so bad I wished I was dead.
most of the people who have died happily are the Saints and Martyrs. you might want to check their lives out with an open mind and heart😊
In my mid 20’s to around 30 I suffered pretty severe death anxiety. Interestingly, I never agreed to go to church with my wife (who was very religious) until around that time. It didn’t take long to see the ridiculousness of the precepts, and simultaneously experience relationships with the largest bunch of young adults in one place who always were not adulting well and feeling compelled to make public spectacle of themselves on sundays crying and asking forgiveness and pandering for prayers. People there were always interested in what you were up to…until you leave that is. Everyone was fantasizing about starting their own ministries too. It was very weird.
@@starsareangels7 stop making up stories.
I am in my early to mid 20's now (23), and I'm similarly having intense feelings of death anxiety. Do you still experience this? What is your perspective now on the matter? Does it improve? Would you take immortality if it was offered to you with no strings attached?
@@Midnight_Metro
You die to different degrees depending on how much you write down. That comes with the risk of future malevolent entities finding whatever information there is on you and torturing a rather closer than less close replica of yours.
Same for brain scans, cryonics etc.
Some people even kill themselves prematurely to escape future suffering.
@@MrCmon113 You're suggesting there exists a future method of revival based on past written works? Is there a prioritization of who get selected for it? And how does that answer the question of the end of consciousness after brain death?
I always considered "That kind of religion" (e.g. "The Church", any and all Abrahamic/Judeo-Christian faith's) to be insular and encapsulated in an incestuous echo chamber.
The full podcast is available now to Patreon supporters. This clip is taken from Within Reason episode #25 with Andrew Mark Henry (Religion for Breakfast), which comes out this Sunday!
The examples cited in this video are derived from a TEDx talk by Sheldon Solomon, one of the original developers of terror management theory. You can watch it here: czcams.com/video/wuJhD5TkX-0/video.html
Dear Alex,
How is your health since you have reintroduced animal sourced foods into your diet? I do hope you are feeling better.
Alex, what you said in 2:00 was covered by the philosopher Peter Zapffe in his 13-page essay titled "The Last Messiah". He argues exactly what you said - that humans are just highly developed animals who know that one day they will be gone (unlike any other type of animal) and that this puts them in a tragic place.
It might sound somewhat pessimistic but that shouldn't prevent anyone from taking a look at it. Philosophy after all is about following the truth no matter where it leads you!
@@Ho-mb2wb I've read Zapffe. He's pretty amazing. Cioran too.
"What if existence is our exile and nothingness our home?"
Short answer....... Yes
Go VEGAN , NOW 🙂 .
Am an atheist an am scared of death, not so much of actually being dead because I know once am dead, am dead, but am scared of the way am going to die and the thought of never knowing anything again terrifies me. 😢
The problem comes when people like you, when someone points to a feasible solution (or at least trying), mainly cryopreservation, LEV or mind uploading, all of you start to dismiss those things and attack the people who want to follow that path to try avoiding death.
@@albsol3478 Mind uploading does not help you. Creating a copy of yourself does not stop you from dying yourself. Cyropreservation on the other hand sounds like a good concept.
@@albsol3478None of those are currently feasible solutions.
@@albsol3478 Or maybe the problem is trying to deny the inevitable and wasting time and resources to do it
@Alb Sol people like me? I've never dismissed any of the things you speak of 🤷♂️ I don't know anything about freezing people to conserve them, so I would never even talk about it, and I wouldn't attack someone for talking about if I didn't know anything abort it. LEV and mind uploading what is that? You have accused me of a lot of things there, and I don't even know what you are talking about? Mind uploading is that uploading your conscious to a computer? I wouldn't mind that there would be no more physical pain, probably still suffer emotional pain, but no physical pain. I do not understand when you people like me dismiss it? Have I dismissed it in this reply?
I can tell this will be a fantastic episode! Thankyou so much Alex for making quality videos/podcasts for us! Remember to drink water and rest well :^)
I just love the way you debate and express your ideas- you are such a refreshing and interesting person❤
Really interesting as always with CosmicSkeptic's informative videos. Thank you!!
Alex, your work is so needed. Thank you for yet another brilliant conversation.
Be vegan .
@@uledisuddie952does this ever work ?
I think its a big part. When my grandmother died, my mother took comfort in the idea that she is in a happier place without pain, where she can also see my deceased uncle. Same thing happened when our dog recently passed away. I'ts kinda awkward since i'm an atheist and she knows this, but i'm not about to bring that up when she is upset and vulnerable. So whenever she says things like that I just nod along.
But just because one of the benefits of a religion is the comfort it brings when we lose loved ones this is in no way an argument against its truth or validity.
Knowing my wife loves me brings me great comfort. Does this mean I'm clinging to am illusion?
@@markmooroolbark252 what a classic argument: we should just be assholes to each other for no reason, when it's inapropriate because being right is more important, apparently, always supported with a bunch of falicies, too, "My wife loves me!" how does that relate to any illusion? how would said illusion be the cause of the comfort you feel from your wife loving you? also what is the point you're trying to make? that they should tell their mom she should be more logical about fucking grief? and that she should cope however YOU think is better? that instead of respecting her coping mechanism, which has nothing to do with truth or "validity" but rather is an emotional and personal matter, she should instead be just logical about something where reason is out of place? why are you trying to bring objectivity into subjective matters? what next? you think art quality should be measured on what is "objectively" and "Truthfuly" better? I guess I shoudn't say I personaly like bad movie x better than good movie y because it's in no way an argument against the truth or validity. This is literally what many religious people do wrong, just in reverse, they try to bring subjectivity into objective matters, so stop looking down on his mom and her feelings, because just like when religious people bother others when they shoudn't, it's none of y'alls fucking bussiness, and certainly stop looking down on religious people, because you're clearly the same type of jackass as so many of them just pointed in the opossite direction.
@@markmooroolbark252 I never said that it was an argument against it though?
@@NicaremE WTF?
@@markmooroolbark252
No, but if believing your wife loved you brought you great distress we would have greater confidence in the claim that your wife loves you after learning that you think she does.
Cows must be really religious.
That’s why there’s a Holy Cow
Underrated
@@enno321bravo sir!
Great to see Andrew Mark Henry here. I have enjoyed and appreciated Religion For Breakfast for a long time. It's one of the best sources of factual knowledge about religion out there.
I was literally thinking yesterday “Cosmic Skeptic should collab with Religion for Breakfast”. Could this be a crazy coincidence or is it so unlikely that a magical mind must have planned it? Almost certainly the former but still super excited for the full episode!!
That simple snippet rolled across my ears as something I immediately recognized as an anchoring truth inside my mind.
Extremely fascinating. Came in expecting a pure discussion of religion and death anxiety, but I was suprised by terror management theory which I haven't ever heard of before. Incredible
Extremely fascinating video, and while the results (ie preferring suburban neighbourhoods over forests) are surprising to me, it makes sense within the hypothesis.
You both are extremely fascinating thinkers, and two of my favourite content creators.
Well, it's not *just* death anxiety. It's also life anxiety. Historically, life has been pretty damn harsh. Pretty sucky. More or less impossible to get through unless you convince yourself that it'll be better once it's finally over and everyone you think deserves it will be horribly punished. It's basically a coping mechanism to deal with the fact that life is hard and there is no justice.
Is Religion Just Death Anxiety?
00:00 Religion and Terror Management Theory
Section Overview: In this section, the speakers discuss the relationship between religion and the fear of death. They introduce the concept of Terror Management Theory, which suggests that humans cope with their mortality by creating ideas that give them a sense of immortality.
Religion as a Coping Mechanism for Death
00:00 Sigmaphroid suggests that religion exists because humans are afraid of death.
00:20 Religion is seen as a way to cope with the idea of death and negotiate it.
00:41 Funerary rituals are an example of how religion deals with death.
01:20 Studies have shown that people who believe in an afterlife are less distraught by images of dead bodies than those who do not.
Terror Management Theory
01:36 Terror Management Theory suggests that humans have a self-preservation instinct to stay alive but also know about the inevitability of their own death, which creates psychological conflict.
02:01 People invent ideas to give themselves a sense of immortality, such as religion or engaging in the arts.
02:21 Ernest Becker's book "The Denial of Death" is considered the origin of this kind of thought.
Examples and Studies
02:59 Municipal Court judges in Tucson, Arizona were given questionnaires mentioning death before being asked to recommend bonds for prostitutes. Those reminded of their own deaths recommended significantly higher bonds than control judges who were not reminded.
03:24 The mortality salience hypothesis suggests that when people are reminded of their deaths, they should momentarily have an increased need for affirming religious ideas or community spirits.
03:47 Similar results can be produced just by flashing the word "death" on a screen too quickly for the person to register it.
05:15 The Effect of Death Reminders on Human Behavior
Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses how reminders of death can affect human behavior and attitudes towards nature, animals, material goods, and religion.
Death Reminders Increase Contempt for Nature and Animals
05:15 Reminders of death can increase contempt and disregard for nature.
05:34 People reminded of their own deaths are more likely to deny that humans are animals.
05:34 They have more negative views towards animals, considering it more appropriate to kill them for reasons other than food and medical research.
Death Reminders Make People More Materialistic
06:14 People who are reminded of their own deaths have higher physical aspirations.
06:51 They intend to spend more on clothing, entertainment, cars, Rolexes, etc.
07:09 There is a link between death reminders and becoming more materialistic.
Death Reminders Increase Need for Community and Religion
07:36 The mere reminder of death in our minds astronomically increases our need for reminders about community material goods religion.
07:56 People who have high death anxiety are shown to be more religious. Even atheists become more religious when reminded of their own death.
Religion as an Exercise in Denial of Death
08:17 Terror management theory suggests that at least part of religious belief has a lot to do with just the denial of death.
Subconsciously people really do believe that this stuff is actually true and has good philosophical and historical grounding because they have to because you couldn't deny death just for the sake of denying death because you knew you would know that you're deceiving yourself.
Excellent!! I’ve always felt this way about religion, but I never knew there was actual research for my hypothesis. I’ve learned a lot in this short clip.
I do think that expanding our understanding, and educating on this topic, is crucial to modeling a more realistic, rational, society. Do keep up the great work. Thank, you.
I was agnostic and atheist until I dated somebody in the occult Satanism that sorta deal. One night she had me look in a book of poetry and in it she wrote "I sold my soul to find out what I already knew" that same night she got possessed tried jumping out my 2nd floor window I stopped that from happening she looks at me eyes black and says I'm gonna call the cops and say that you beat me. I felt a very negative force. I called out to God she hit the floor. I started sorta believing in this mother goddess since I had interactions while on psychedelic drugs I started singing the song mother by pink Floyd she gets a wicked curled smile on her face I realize something is wrong and I call on Jesus and suddenly she begins seizing her eyes are rolling behind her head as she's saying 666 666 666 f Jesus please don't send me back to hell it feels like I'm dying on a loop right now. I have the testimony on my channel... also some of the pictures my ex shared or drew. It gets more obvious that satan if the "god" of this world and the father of lies. Once you really look into how this world operates in a basic sell your soul for power join this secret society do this and that and you can have power or wealth. People who really start to look at how the world is knows that we are near the end.
Certainly part of the reason I am going into academia is to create a contribution to society that will stand the test of time, even possibly beyond my death. Also, I just enjoy learning and I seem pretty good at it.
I was a Christian years ago when needing a heart transplant (we're talking modern-medieval days of transplantation). People around me used all the religous, comfort-coding they could, offering prayers and letting me know that "God told them" that I'd be ok, etc.
But that did not put me at ease. The only comfort I found, then and now, is that if I died, I wouldn't know it. I didn't know about me before I arrived on Earth so it shouldn't bother me that I won't know of me after I die.
That thought was one of many that inched me down the road to deconversion. Finding Cosmic Skeptik years later brought me those last few inches. Lol
We can't even remember our own birth in this life - so it might not be safe to assume that we had no prior existence, simply because we have no memory of it.
@@moonsphere1750
How is it you if you don't even have a memory of it?
I'm more identical to Julius Ceasar than you are to whatever entities you try to identify with.
Thanks Alex !!.
Such easy listening; your reasoning and presentation is SO palatable, and p.s. I'm a Christian and LOVE listening to you :)
Damn, this 9½ minute clip totally drew me in!
I'm all in for the full 72-minute episode! I wanna hear/learn more about these death studies...
I read about Terror management theory in a book about nature. and ever since then it has occurred to me that Terror management leads to more of the thing we’re terrified of. Because ultimately our denial of death leads to more destruction of the environment , rainforests etc.
As someone who wasn't religious growing up, consider myself as an atheist, which I still do now. I am lucky that my parents are never strict or make me believe in any faith, practice any custom or tradition. I just recently learn more about Buddhism, also has been practice daily meditation for around 6 months. I find myself contemplating more and more about death/impermanence, be it my own and the people I love in this life. Oddly, I become more peaceful inside.
Makes sense, the more you dwell on and understand something, the less scary it's gonna be.
I was agnostic and atheist until I dated somebody in the occult Satanism that sorta deal. One night she had me look in a book of poetry and in it she wrote "I sold my soul to find out what I already knew" that same night she got possessed tried jumping out my 2nd floor window I stopped that from happening she looks at me eyes black and says I'm gonna call the cops and say that you beat me. I felt a very negative force. I called out to God she hit the floor. I started sorta believing in this mother goddess since I had interactions while on psychedelic drugs I started singing the song mother by pink Floyd she gets a wicked curled smile on her face I realize something is wrong and I call on Jesus and suddenly she begins seizing her eyes are rolling behind her head as she's saying 666 666 666 f Jesus please don't send me back to hell it feels like I'm dying on a loop right now. I have the testimony on my channel... also some of the pictures my ex shared or drew. It gets more obvious that satan if the "god" of this world and the father of lies. Once you really look into how this world operates in a basic sell your soul for power join this secret society do this and that and you can have power or wealth. People who really start to look at how the world is knows that we are near the end.
I have difficulty with people actually wanting to exist forever. The thought of never ending eternity scares the hell
out of me.
@@xravenx24fe it is. I had health anxiety and the thought of dying young in a painful way haunted me for so long. The way to overcome it is to face the fear and understand the nature, with open heart and mind.
@@Peter-Ac that's indeed a very scary thought. But I think majority of people on this planet wouldn't want to live forever in the sense of being immortal.
Cosmic Skeptic, Alex, you post it, I watch it. As I have for 6 or 7 years! 👍💖💙🥰✌
"You'll never make it in this field without it" was one of the first things told to me when i started my current job as an EMT after one of the people precepting me asked if i was religious and answered "no"
Interesting clip...having unwavering faith was an awesome way of managing fear and anxiety when my soon-to-be 21-year-old son heard that there was medically nothing further that they could do for him. The following day he confidently told his best friend that he knew where he was going. As a Jesus-follower, I believe that God gives us grace when storms are raging. What amazing grace to have such acceptance and peace at that age...regardless of whether there really is an afterlife. Stefan's momma...and I was just diagnosed yesterday with ovarian cancer.
I pray that you be healed in Jesus’ name
Best wishes, consider relocating tó different country, if you can"T afford treatment.
May the love and compassion of Jesus bring you comfort in this difficult time. I've had cancer twice. I often think to myself "this isn't fair". But only God is all-knowing.
Take care of yourself.
That's kind of like people having a problem of compulsively punching themselves and they solve it by cutting off their hands.
There's gotta be a better way of dealing with maladaptive anxiety/fear.
@@johnbrzykcy3076
If there's nothing wrong with you dying from cancer, why should we do anything to heal it?
Alex, have you heard that death anxiety is one of the main themes touched on in the new Puss in Boots movie? And handles it very maturely for a kids' film. I highly recommend you watch it.
That movie was so fire, I second the recommendation
Brilliant! Thank you Alex..love your content…you have such an amazing brain 🧠 ❤
Man I love your podcasts alot
Wow! I'm surprised by everything he said about the results of people who are reminded of their own death. I thought it would of been the opposite. I must be an alien or something but when I think of my own death I sometimes feel a sense of relief. I stop worrying about trivial things, become more understanding, calmer, kinder, can think clear and gain a better perspective. The only negative is I become apathetic and maybe more hedonistic (if you consider that a bad thing)
Being hedonistic only means to be explicit and systematic and wise in doing what everyone does anyways.
As a practicing Stoic who meditate daily on my own mortality and my loved ones provide me with me sense living each day to the fullest and living in accordance with nature for what can be more natural than living in accorddance with nature. Death smiles to us all and all we can do is to smile back :)
That doesn't mean anything. "Living in accordance with nature" is just an excuse for being selfish and cruel and intellectually lazy 99% of the time.
Love your channel.
I think that this would be an interesting area for you to continue to explore. Freud believed that our bodily emotions are ultimately incapable of accepting death, but that we could terms to terms with it by identifying more strongly with the thinking, cognitive portion of our minds. This would obviously lead to a kind of completely stoicism, and so to the extent that we are creatures passion, we must content ourselves with mythologies and various dreams of immortality that help us continually evade and project death anxiety. Seems to me that there is some real insight there
As a Christian, I found it more comforting when I was an atheist to think I don’t exist after death than to think I will need to live perfectly with a perfect being after death…
This perfect being makes you feel uncomfortable?
@@Solutionsarejustcompromises The same way a criminal would feel uncomfortable in front of a judge…. Yes
I thought Jesus was supposed to forgive your imperfections and accept you as you are, as long as you accept Jesus?
@@defiance1790 the criminal knows exactly what he did wrong, does that mean you know exactly what you did wrong?
@@Solutionsarejustcompromises Did this perfect being touched you in points you didn't want to?
The worst part about death is we are living in the greatest story there ever was, and none of us will ever know how it ended. It’s like reading half of an amazing book and never being able to finish it.
The ending is not a real happy one on earth. Regardless if it comes fast or a slow decline, it's not a pretty picture. So we could be better off not knowing how it ends. But I do see your point clearly, we don't get to see it.
@@rockrecordreport7136 At the very end yes, but not necessarily the billions of years before that. Humans could populate space, find other civilizations, those are the sorts of things that would drive me crazy to not ever get to see if they do happen at some point.
I see it different, the collective story is just the background for your own story. We don't look at every movie thinking what happens thousands of years after, we view it as the story of the main character. And you will see that ending for sure
Very interesting topic.
Thank you for the video
I’m fascinated by the topic!
OMG, Alex. How do you manage to be so damn interesting in every instance you speak? When is your first book coming out? Or did I miss that your work already got published? Let me know. Lots of love ❤
If one day aging is "cured"
And fear of death is mostly done away with , it would be interesting to see what happens to religion
Gone, it would be, another thing to avoid. Nothing supernatural out there anyway.
I don't know if anyone would ever see this but I just have to put it out there. When I became a teen for the first time, the fear of death started looming over me. This really pushed me to start looking for scientifically finding a way out of death and I came across a subject known as biochemistry. From then on I began finding ways if it could really solve the death issue and guess what? It can. Out of fear all this while I have been studying and researching reverse-aging and I can tell you we are very close to finding a solution. However, it's not going to prevent death or anything but just hault it for long enough for you to change your mind about death. Death is actually quite comforting if you look at it with a different perspective. While researching I found out it's not death I fear but death without understanding the universe around you. Just imagine how cool it would be to die after you have experienced and learned about everything just like finally going to bed for once in hopes for a new beginning altogether.
P.S. I recommend you guys to study aging. We need more smart ppl in this field. This also includes cancer research, neuroscience for alzheimer's research, etc. We can use this fear of death to innovate and create a paradigm shift so that we never have to fear death again.
Thay say denial is the first stage of grief.
My mom was a single parent and I was her only child - she was the person I was closest to in the whole world - our bond was Gilmore Girls strong.
I was a hard-core Christian at the time of her death, and the last line of my speech at her funeral was "...and I know I will see her again."
When you grieve you cling to what's familiar, and for me that was Christianity - consequently, her death was when my faith was at its peak.
But about a year and a half after she died, I was finally able to start to heal at least somewhat - no one ever fully heals after a deep loss. It was then when I was able to start my process of deconstruction.
After I had become an atheist and no longer believed in an afterlife, it was as if I had to start the process of grieving for her all over again. It was then that I realized how intrusive religion is with grief. It disrupts the grieving process by keeping a part of you - no matter how small - still stuck in that first stage of grief: denial.
Yes, no one can be 100% sure of what happens after we die; but if this life is really all we have, we should be able to acknowledge that we may never see our loved ones again.
Yes, it excruciating, and beyond heartbreaking - but that's grief - painful, *but it's our pain.*
I'm all for comforting people who are going through grief, *but it can be taken too far.* Grief is extremely personal, and religion has no right to take it from us.
You can acknowledge a loss without grieving at all, but that's probably unrealistic for most people.
Of course the best coping mechanism of all is to deny a circumstance altogether. If you genuinely believe that you came in first in a race, you won't suffer the mental anguish of coming in last.
Moreover I don't think there's a "process of grieving" that's in any way wholesome or good. You just perceive that something bad happened and you suffer accordingly. And then times goes by and other perceptions come in.
No one speaks about processing and getting over good things that happen to them, but for some reason they think that happens with bad things.
Yes. It's also very handy as a means of controlling large groups of people using that fear as a lever.
It's exciting that you're hopping on the TMT train. If you're interested in this kind of stuff, you might like investigating the "Meaning Maintenance Model" idea. In essence, everybody's mental framework for the world is like a jigsaw puzzle, and we feel anxiety or discomfort whenever we come across a puzzle piece that doesn't fit with what we already know. According to the theory, we're constantly maintaining our working framework in order to avoid discomfort.
This is very interesting stuff, Alex.
Maybe not just towards death but it’s most definitely a coping mechanism for many of "life’s weights" (burden’s & anxiety's)
Omg this will be fantastic !! I love Religion For Breakfast!! He is sooo good and so educational
Q. What really is the difference between a bacteria and human beings, pretending to an atheist, objectively?
@@KHABIB-TIMEsize, biochemical composition, morphology, methods of reproduction, metabolism...
Need I go on?
@@danielgadomski5129 So, because you are little bit bigger then a bacteria that makes you more special?
@@KHABIB-TIME Something being special or not does not pertain to objectivity. Since all values are ultimately mind dependent, therefore subjective
@@BurnigLegionsBlade 😄😄😄 So, you are no more subjectively special or different than a bacteria or germs lurking in the toilet?
Oh Allah, You are The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful, guide us all to the straight path.
I think reincarnation/rebirth is the best option, even if we don't remember anything. As a deist, I'm still not sure what happens after death but I think it's important to work on improving your life right now, rather than worrying so much about what happens after you die.
I find this so hard to comprehend as someone who grew up very connected to nature (living on a farm, now studying ecology and working towards living off the grid). Death just always seemed like this promise indicative of the perfection of natural order. I’ve always found it so interesting to think that I’m currently a conscious being, but one day I’ll likely just join the mycelium hive mind.
I would say it's not "just" that, but I absolutely think it's one of the biggest needs that faith cam cover and explain it's origin. It's also one of the reasons why in developed nations where death it's less commonplace religion is less compelling.
From star dust to star dust. That's all it is, and it's what it is. Can't change it only accept it and go forward.
❤ From India. Your videos are great. 🥳
As a person more afraid of suffering than of being dead - which means more afraid of life than death - I think religion for me when i belonged to a Church, was more about longing for Unity, which might be old longing for the symbiotic relationship with parents in early childhood. Also, a longing for being free from the exhausting neurotic want of control of outcomes - maybe even of choices - leaving it to some supernatural Being with a greater overview and greater capacities.
I clearly don't want to die right now nor in any too close future. Yet still, when I am angsty or sad, a walk on the sematary - reminding me that life is short and death is certain - usually calms me down and perks me up. The thought of (at least) this life (and the person that I am) not being eternal, makes life and nature and relationships more dear to me, and it is usually such a comforting thought. I delight in the idea of being a passing phenomena in this "magical" fleeting world where love and loss/death seem to be the only things that really matter.
I am sure I am not the only one.
Fascinating! Absolutely fascinating!
I don't fear death, I used to, now I don't. Not existing doesn't bother me at all.
I fear dying, however. I share DNA with people who have had excruciating deaths. I'm not looking forward to dying. But after that, I'm okay with it.
True. It's not so much the prospect of dying that bothers me, but the aging process/sicknesses/accidents that lead you to it.
There is an old Black Sabbath tune called After Forever that has a line I always liked "when you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool..." I was maybe 12 the first time I heard the song and, though the song is great, that line has always stuck with me
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope do you think he's a fool? 🤘🥴
Interesting lyrics. I've never heard the song. I should check it out. Thanks.
@@johnbrzykcy3076
Check out the whole album, actually their whole catalogue
So excited for the full episode interviewing Andrew! Love his channel
Short answer: yes.I've been saying this for 10 plus years.
Having lost a parent as a small baby and I grew up particularly aware of death because one parent was already gone. So I have thought about death in ways other ppl never did since I was a child. I never went through the 'invincible reckless teen' phase because I knew very well that I could die. I knew that youth was not some protective gear.
It became very evident to me when I almost died in 2017 with a medical issue and I was told my heart was gonna give out unless drastic action, up to and including a heart transplant to turn things around. I was able to turn it around without a transplant, thankfully.
I lay in a cardiac ICU unit , crying, and having the most intense conversation with myself for weeks. I don't ever want to experience that again, but I credit that time for helping me refocus in what was important to me and since then, my life looks entirely different now. It made me better and stronger.
I never regretted my atheism and never felt the need to pray to a god suddenly , no matter how much my mother tried to get me to do that. No deathbed conversions for me. I was more concerned with the things I didn't finish or accomplish things I wanted to do for myself and my family. That's what concerned me in thinking of the real possibility my death.
I’ve met quite a few people (often academics as myself) who couldn’t believe in “God” precisely because they would have seen it as a coping mechanism, being aware of their own death anxiety.
As an atheist (growing up in a family of academics and atheists) I had no problem dealing with the idea of death. I thought along the lines: “I have non-existed for an eternity already, I can non-exist for another eternity, no problem.”
Now (having become a theist) I think that a connection to the transcendent puts death anxiety in a different perspective. It’ seems the product of a very narrow and clingy attachment to the materiel world,now I believe my lack of death anxiety as an atheist was due to the fact that I wasn’t particularly clingy towards the materiel world even back then.
"Material world" is a cute way of saying reality. The non-"material" world is fantasy.
My religious ex girlfriend once said:
"I don't understand how you can deal with sorrow if you are not believing in god!"
I couldn't understand what she means.
Not only is religion not the only coping mechanism, but it's also not the best one.
And even if it was, and I could choose to believe fairytales, I wouldn't want to, because I take pleasure from only believing things that are true.
@@mikolmisol6258
As far as coping goes literally denying that a bad thing happened is the best theoretically possible coping mechanism.
If you genuinely believe that you came in first in a race, you won't suffer mentally from coming in last.
I had a heart attack in October 2022. I was diagnosed with two types of heart disease. Thankfully they were able to just put a stent in and I avoided a bypass. I don’t think I ever fully bought into theism even as a child. However, after my attack, I found myself drifting towards faith. Not until recently have I gotten back to being me. Even when I’ve wanted to believe my mind always said no. It he point here, death is scary very scary especially when you realize any second you could die. Sure I’ve known that for decades but my MI really scared me and rightfully so. That said, I don’t have any justified reason to believe there’s another life for me after this one.
You might take comfort in realizing that "you" don't exactly exist -- "reality" is very much an illusion constructed by the brain, and "you" are like the "Ship of Theseus."
I never thought of it in that exact way but upon reflection, it makes perfect sense.
I wonder if in the future we'll get marketing strategies revolving around subtly reminding the audience they are going to die to make them more materialistic... or not so subtly
I think it's already here
I ponder death every single day, and It's surprising how many people live in denial.
I agree. I wonder why people think their god is so wonderful when he insists you must die as part of life. It's very cruel.
Once I was smoking joint with a beer after hard day of working in my house. Out of nothing I got a thought that I will die and this is inevitable. This thought started my heart to beat faster, I got adrenaline shot and I felt like I was driving a car into a wall and I can't do nothing. I had a panic attack.
After that I realized something, and I don't live with regrets. I understand, that there are many things beyond my control and I have to accept this or live in despair. I prefer to live with joy. Because happiness isn't a goal, it's a journey.
Sounds like marijuana-induced psychosis.
Organised religion offers the answer to 4 of the most prevalent human concerns:
mortality
insignificance
not knowing
community
Surrender your reasoning and you get the comfort of having these 4 meta-issues handled.
That's the trade off.
Subliminal messaging like what Alex mentioned has been mostly or totally debunked. Simple text messages flashed for a few milliseconds inside of a movie, for example, have only shown a small effect on people who have been primed before the message. For example, if you have a movie full of death and you flash the word "death" you might get an effect, but if the word has no immediate meaning within the context in which it is shown the message has no effect at all.
Of course, death is an important subject for us and other species, and if you remember people and some other animals about the subject you will get some response. This does not mean much.
This is really interesting because I remember as a young child, the concept of death was really upsetting. I used to spend some nights crying about it and talking with my parents about it.
But as an adult, I'm not really scared of it. If anything I find the idea that I'll die one day somewhat of a relief. Now, I'm not depressed or anything. I've had a relatively easy life, things are going well for me. And yet, I'm happy that I get to die one day.
What I'm actually scared of is dying in a horrific way like cancer, or drowning, or burning alive. Just pain and suffering in general. But death? Nah, the fact that one day I'll just stop existing is A-okay with me.
You live forever, because new people are born all the time, and a new consciousness (you) is born in them. The belief that you cease to exist forever when you die can be relieving, but it is false.
Apparently that can't be true. You are human so you must have a terror of death and death anxiety! Unless of course you are special like so many atheists seem to believe they are. They rise above our silly human foibles and flaws and see things as they truly are.
Bullshit.
If that was true you would have already killed yourself.
so refreshing to see you talk to someone with cogent things to say derived from genuine scholarly attitudes to the exploration of the world around us - a real contrast to Kisin and Craig, who are just self serving propagandists who lack intellectual honesty and are ruled by bias.
I am looking forward to the podcast. Hear you Sunday!🤭
I'm not afraid of being dead, but hope not to suffer too much in the process of getting there.
Very important work. Keep it up. Religion is the sine qua non to the irrational.
So only irrational people can be religious?
Its debatable that religion is irrational.
Are meaningless platitudes the sine quibus non of the pseudo intellectuals?
🥱
Religion and irrationality are not necessarily synonymous. While it's true that some religious beliefs may seem irrational to those who do not share them, it's important to recognize that faith and reason are not mutually exclusive. Many people find comfort and meaning in their religious beliefs, and these beliefs can often inspire acts of great compassion and kindness. Ultimately, it's up to each individual to determine the role that religion plays in their own life, and it's important to respect the choices of others, even if we do not always understand them.
I enjoyed that, thank you.
i didn't expect this collab wow
Alex, what you said in 2:00 was covered by the philosopher Peter Zapffe in his 13-page essay titled "The Last Messiah". He argues exactly what you said - that humans are just highly developed animals who know that one day they will be gone (unlike any other type of animal) and that this puts them in a tragic place.
It might sound somewhat pessimistic but that shouldn't prevent anyone from taking a look at it. Philosophy after all is about following the truth no matter where it leads you!
Yeah Zapffe makes you feel a bit uncomfortable at first but its worth it for all atheists to read what he says
yes, following the truth no matter where it leads you!
Directly away from any religion, as the lack of evidence supporting any religion, is a clear and logical sign to dismiss it.
@@WhoThisMonkey Zapffe is an atheist
@@guestguest5555
Did I say otherwise? 🤔
@@WhoThisMonkey Why are you trying to attain rational and metaphysical truth with empiricism?
Very good explanation of the effects of the fear of death.
It’s not just the benefits to the individual, but the benefits to the community. A belief in life after death probably makes forgiveness easier for crimes, wars etc a population angered by an injustice is easier to control or soothe with religious reminders of duties to safeguard one’s immortal soul.
This video was a very good birthday gift.
Only speaking for myself, but as a former Christian the religion made me dread death. There was always the fear wondering if my faith and works were sufficient, whether my sins were truly forgiven, and if I would be chosen for an eternal life in heaven. These concerns generated considerable anxiety as did the notion of hell, and I always felt someone was looking over my shoulder judging my behaviors. I always felt labeled a guilty sinner, my works were filthy rags, and never at peace with salvation.
Then along came atheism and a huge burden was lifted off my chest. I felt free and no longer feared death or eternal consequences. Gone was divine judgment always looking over my shoulder and wondering if I was chosen for a place in heaven. It was such a release breaking free from a psychological prison and now realizing I was my own judge. No longer did I have to view others as sinners living in a spiritual world of demons and angels, but rather just people living their lives for whatever purpose and meaning they chose. Atheism was so empowering, so uplifting, so freeing, and it increased my compassion for humanity. There was such peace embracing my insignificance and irrelevance in the universe.
I'm theistic but I really like you content. Just seems interesting.
I hope you dont mind me asking because I am genuinely curious…
Have his videos wavered your faith at all, or have you found that you cant reason some of his points with your own beliefs? Do you think it is possible to believe two things that simultaneously disprove each other?
Thank you for your time and have a nice day!
@@themerpking8445 I mean initially I did question my belief, but I thought about it for a while and it wasn't something concrete enough.
Two of my favorite skeptics!
- a Christian
It's rare to have anyone talk about Terror Management Theory. I first read about it in 2018 or earlier, and I feel like a lot more people should become familiar with this theory. I have no problem with death. It comes now or later, and I have very little control over it. I've felt that way for a long time. My father was a Vietnam War veteran, and he taught me from an early age to wholey accept death's eminence. He also never stated his position on the afterlife. He was wholey agnostic about that topic. Perhaps this is part of why I was so nihilistic as a kid & teenager. My mother tried to give us a Jewish perspective of death & the possibility of an afterlife. I didn't take up that perspective. I grew extremely nihilistic as a kid & teenager. I turned my nihilism into a more active nihilism in my early 20s. I made my own life meaning without much help from any religion. I am fairly happy these days. I'm still an atheist, almost antitheist, perhaps a pantheist, largely an agnostic kind of guy, but I'm fairly happy with my life and the world because I chose my own meaning. It gets better with time. TMT is such a good basis for understanding religions if we're more inclined to be atheist or similar.
Interestingly, in the last few years, I have realized a key part of my personal ideology. l actively seek an end to human death. I study anti-aging research and try to figure out how to end aging or how to treat aging as a curable, treatable disease. I know it's a taboo topic. I know I'm going against what many people dogmatically call, "the thing that gives life meaning." I'm sorry, but no. I'm done living with this system we found ourselves in. I reject death, and I embrace life. You can, too, if you want. We can cure aging and live as long as we like. There are solutions to this problem-thus disease-named death. When you choose to die, then do so, but we should all be able to choose when we each die. That is the most dignified position to take on the matter.
Very interesting and a thought I’ve had before. Also makes me wonder about the origins of religions with no afterlife (some forms of Buddhism), a vague/non-defined afterlife (Judaism), or even bleak afterlives that were little to look forward to (ancient Mesopotamian religions etc)
That's weird - for almost every example Alex gave, I think my reaction would be exactly the opposite. Am I kidding myself? I hope that being reminded my own mortality would increase my compassion and generosity to others.
Same. Actually my first thought was “I want to see this study because this doesn’t sound right: my reaction would be the opposite of what is being described”.
Hell, the same concept has been portrayed in one of the most iconic scenes in movie history, the “tears in rain” scene from Blade Runner.
I as well. I was quite shocked by the results.
I don't want to have anyone close to me who responded in the allegedly typical way.
Yes you are kidding yourself because all of those effects were subconscious. What you think you feel like right now isn't a good indication of how you'd act in the experiments.
I think about my mortality most nights, and maybe once every one or two weeks I experience 'death anxiety'.
It's like our natural thirst for knowledge is also a curse, because I don't ever see myself believing in any sort of afterlife. It's a comfort that's unattainable to me
Try shrooms
Whatever it is, it is far beyond the crude capture of human theories
Death anxiety is an essential tool in spiritual transformation. That's if you are willing to leave the crutch of faith behind - belief in some sort of heaven if you follow certain rules or a belief that you cease to exist after death. The deeper you go, the more terrifying it is but the understanding you reach is beyond what the intellect alone can fathom.
On the mortality salience hypothesis experiment - a useful follow-up might be one in which the experimental group is *frequently* reminded of their own deaths. This is where I think the Stoics did us such a solid - memento mori as a positive exercise. (And CBT spin-offs).
We just don't know what's awaiting us, do we? But I'm inclined to think it will be similar to the state of our (non)-existence prior to our birth. And I'm okay with that.
It's not just death which beguiles us, but also the idea that we'll be forgottten.
It’s ok, when people go extinct nobody will be there to remember anyone.
Yes that’s what I say, death is scary but also that we will be forgotten instantly and life will continue without you and it will be like you never existed.
Yes, I believe in reincarnation, and this problem is still present here. What's also scary is that you will forget your past life, and go through it all over again.
I believe it is more the fear to not exist. Isnt a boring existence in some plane of afterlife still better than total extinction upon death for many people?
I don't care to be forgotten. So, not all are afraid if it.
I am so glad to see Alex engaging with this. I have been arguing for the last few years for it to be taken seriously. A couple of points since I think it is easy to misunderstand the theory :
1. It should be emphasised that the theory depends on accepting the notion of an unconscious (though not I think necessarily the Freudian model precisely.) I personally have no problem with that but it might give others pause.
2. TMT s not just an explanation of religion as Alex very carefully points out. It is first and foremost an explanation of culture - the myriad ways that we create meaning and self esteem for ourselves. (Becker cannot be accused of lacking limiting his ambition for his ideas!) Religious faith is exemplary for the theory as it directly deals with feelings about mortality.
3. Alex might have highlighted what for me is a very telling consequence of TMT that might be close to his heart. TMT suggests that we would want to differentiate ourselves from the rest of the animal world as they apparently do not suffer from our existential anxiety. We must therefore be special, made in the the image of God, have souls etc etc. etc. (Yes I am aware of the behaviour of elephants but you see my point.)
4. TMT could be totally true but that wouldn't disprove the existence of God! Indeed Becker himself had a very nuanced attitude to faith. See Sheldon Solomon's long interview with Lex Fridman: Sheldon Solomon: Death and Meaning | Lex Fridman Podcast #117.
Also , intriguingly, Buddhists seem relatively immune to death reminders in experiments!
5. Again Sheldon Solomon has recently re-emphasised that he does not believe TMT is the last word ie he is keen not to be a reductionist in a sense. In particular he looks forward to a synthesis with other approaches such as evolutionary biology and other disciplines : search for Sheldon Solomon: The Psychology of Death & Terror Management Theory where he is interviewed on "Ahead of the Curve" YT channel.
6. TMT has to my mind persuasive explanations for the apparent irrationality of theists and particularly apologists as well as phenomena like the violence of religious conflicts. (Solomon has done some great work on Terrorism - the real world kind!)
Again Willam Lane Craig's infamous "low bar" for example makes perfect sense in TMT.
Lastly it would be remiss not to add that there are dissenters! Jordan Peterson is not a fan apparently and statistical significance of the many experimental studies has been questioned but I have little knowledge of the details and not enough expertise to comment.
So for me the theory is as provocative and rich as Alex suggests and even if "false" (or more likely incomplete) it still generates a lot of fascinating and profound questions about who we are and why we do what we do. As I say it's great to see Alex bring his formidable learning and intellect to it. I look forward to a (hopefully critical and searching!) interview with him and Sheldon Solomon. Please!
Interesting that studies showed increased materialism when made to think about death, since I thought it would be the opposite, since people who are expecting to die soon seem to focus more on family, friends and charity. I knew a friend who had cancer and expressed doubts about how much money mattered and left his quite high-paying job in the last couple years of his life to become a teacher.