Your right, its main advantage is how it effectively hollows out the inside of the corner. Its shape also leaves a lot of support there for the corner and its more durable than people give it credit for. Different chains give slightly different results. Carlton ALM is very suitable due to the thinner side / top plate and how far the side plate leans out when viewed from the front. It's not a great chain when round filed but is exceptional square filed. Its performance is really hard to judge against round filed chains. The reduced top plate angle (12.5-15 VS 25/30) reduces its ability to self-feed so if you compare it by allowing the chain to pull itself through, it's not a massive difference between them. The feel of the chain when cutting and what you can do with it is the big difference. Filing time is comparable to round once you get the feel of it. Hitting tie straps is pretty normal on some chains and doesn't worry me much. RSL is the full com version but hard to come by here. Whites is selling Oregon 75CL by the loop. the chain is ok, but factory grind is average.
My Dad could square file as fast as he could round file in the woods and was very consistent at it, I could not, so I square grind. It's too bad that square grinders cost so much in Australia. I only run square grind on my felling chains. The difference in cutting speed and durability over round and Hexa is night and day for me. In my testing the Hexa files were $$$ junk and with the Hexa grind I went through chain much faster than square or round ground. I mostly run full skip either Carlton A1LMSK ( converted to square) or Oregon 72CJ, but it is also available in full and semi skip sequence as well. Like any other grind, setting ones depth gauges for the conditions you are cutting is very important to overall performance as well as adjusting the top and side plate cutting angles for durability vs. speed. Control, speed, and durability in a combination of cutting conditions conditions like presented with felling Hardwoods is were sqaure ground really shines.
I would like to explore square ground more. But any setup apart from filing is expensive. You have square jig now with CBN wheels available. And a dedicated square ground grinder simington will cost at least $2500 AUD so thats out of the question for me.
Double Chisel Bit files - Vallorbe Swiss. Search on CZcams for that. Few quick points on it. They are deliberately missing low and keeping the 25-30 degree top plate angle. The advantage with doing it this way is it much faster when converting round to square because you don't have to take as much off and if you stuff it up, you end up with Hexa, so not great loss. It's not proper square but is an easy way of getting some exposure to it.
Oregon 75CL is a square ground full amount of cutters square ground chain. I run hot and cold with the Oregon chain usually deciding Stihl RS or Hexa is the better quality item.
I am just playing around with square grind at the moment, yes it really cuts well but hand filing is very time consuming for me, maybe I will get better at it and faster as times goes on.
For most of us square grind isnt worth the time or effort as a work chain. Yes it's faster but it's very hard to file and you cant touch it up in the woods easily like you can round ground or round filed chain.
I've got a loop of Oregon square chisel chain (72CL072) and I've been sitting on it for more than a year and haven't tried it out yet.. you mentioning that the top-plate angle was less had me look.. this the 1st I noticed that its only like 15° or so.. I'd bet that square-chisel could cut awfully good, haven't ever pulled it out cause I'm always worried I'd hit something, saving it for a special occasion or for when I get a Simington or Square-jig
@@ChainsawUsers I've got a 20in 72dl chain that's square ground with links on each tooth.. L cutter, drive link, R cutter and so on.. full comp, not skip or semi skip but that's an Oregon chain not a Stihl. Got it on ebay last year for $22 US
@@ChainsawUsers I don't know if stihl does or not, I don't have a dealer near me so all of my saws are Husqvarna and I only get the odd Stihl chain on ebay from time to time. I do recall that it was pretty hard to find the full compliment square ground chain when I was looking to buy the one I've got. Skip chain on anything less than 28" bar never made much sense to me.
You can easily achieve virtually any top plate cutting angle by projecting the file more or less above the top plate. For simplicity, let's assume that the top plate is perpendicular to the drive links. For what value of projection do we get 40°? Simple math shows that then 11.71% is needed. For 20%, we get 53°. For 25%: 60°. For 10%, which also often appeared in instructions from different periods, the cutting angle is 37°. By the way, what value appears in the paper manual of your FG2 (if it was included), because in the electronic one it is 10%? It seems that 10% may not be enough, but let's take an example of cutting angle measurements for several harvester chains (semi or chamfer chisels), where the measurement was made on the opposite side of the cutting corner. Carlton: 44° Stihl 1: 43° Stihl 2: 36° Oregon: 46° Of course, smaller file protrusion values also reduce the side plate angle, which will be especially noticeable with chisel cutters. That's when the (in)famous file down angle comes into play, which will increase the side plate angle in relation to the obtained cutting angle.
On the FG2 it just talks a bit about 10° tilt just an opinion to use it. There is never ever any detail in any Stihl manual whatsoever. Even with the Stihl USG grinder just has setting values without any explanation whatsoever. And this is case for most chainsaw manuals. You should write a book on chainsaw angles. Many people would buy it. You must read a lot. How many times do you use your chainsaw as opposed to reading? You have a great in-depth knowledge about the techniques of using chainsaws and chain sharpening ect ect Even the Stihl USG grinder chart took me forever to understand it the 1 2 3 with circles and the top and bottom information in the boxes. The bottom text in the box, refers to -15/+15 and raker wheel number to be used One you know that the rest is easy That's why I made a video so I would not forget. Yes i forgot the text in the bottom row again, and had to watch my own video lol
"By the way, what value appears in the paper manual of your FG2" I have an old paper 1 from the 80's and some of its recommendations are pretty wild by today standards. File sizes for all 3/8 and 404 chains - 4.8mm. 1/2 chain is 6.3mm Note - below is directory from the manual. I think something was lost in translation because it's about as clear as mud. On the file hight it says the following, "The correct setting is obtained by turning the setting screw in until the file is lifted somewhat from the tooth gullet. Thereafter by left turning release the file until it just touches the bottom of the tooth gullet at the same time resting against the cutter front." I have never tried following the advice written in there, but I might try doing a 3/8 chain with a 4.8mm, set at that depth just to see what happens.
@SawChainTheories file sizes as follows 1/4 4.0mm 5/32 3/8p 4.0mm 5/32 0.0325 4.8mm 3/16 3/8 5.2mm 13/64 .404 5.5mm 7/32 The is not even a mention or a arrow for the adjustment 10° tilt no where in the manual is they any mention. That's pathetic from Stihl
@@ChainsawUsers Mine has this section, "The vertical setting of the swivelling piece remains at "0" when sharpening Rapid-Standard (chipper) Rapid-Micro, Picco-Micro and Topic-Micro chain. When sharpening Rapid-Super and Topic-Super chain, however, the swivelling piece is set to 10 degrees in such a way that the filing handle swings downward"
@SawChainTheories My Stihl USG grinder chart calls for -15/+15 on the B scale sliding vice for every chain except tungsten carbide and Hexa all other require the -15/+15 setting There is no explanation in user manual just a USG chart with setting
The other advantage is more precise cutting when falling. A humboldt is quite a bit more difficult with round chain comparatively. And its smoother cutting. You can just make those little adjustments better with sqaure chain on angled cuts b
@@ChainsawUsers I do. Not professionally. But I cut for a sawmill. Typical facecut for falling ruins a bit of the butt wood. So I started using the Humboldt to make better use of the wood for that purpose. And my terrain is also very steep similar to the Pacific northwest though I'm on the east coast in the US. Both will get the tree on the ground. But the Humboldt saves the log a little better and just in my inexperienced opinion allows me to aim the fall a bit better as well. When you have a dutchman as they call it in the pnw. It's a lot easier to nip it out. And if I need to steepen the undercut angle after I've cut it. Very smooth to take that extra bit out. Round kind of chatters and is a little harder to get what I want. Could be my inexperience. I am no pro. Just on the journey to figure out what works best for me in my environment.
@@ChainsawUsers Humboldt is the reverse of your typical face cut. So you go in horizontal and instead of putting your notch on top after that you put the notch under your first horizontal cut.
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Your right, its main advantage is how it effectively hollows out the inside of the corner. Its shape also leaves a lot of support there for the corner and its more durable than people give it credit for.
Different chains give slightly different results. Carlton ALM is very suitable due to the thinner side / top plate and how far the side plate leans out when viewed from the front. It's not a great chain when round filed but is exceptional square filed.
Its performance is really hard to judge against round filed chains. The reduced top plate angle (12.5-15 VS 25/30) reduces its ability to self-feed so if you compare it by allowing the chain to pull itself through, it's not a massive difference between them. The feel of the chain when cutting and what you can do with it is the big difference.
Filing time is comparable to round once you get the feel of it. Hitting tie straps is pretty normal on some chains and doesn't worry me much.
RSL is the full com version but hard to come by here. Whites is selling Oregon 75CL by the loop. the chain is ok, but factory grind is average.
Just when you think you know all there is about chainsaws and chains, something new pops up and there is more to learn.
Thank you for this comment.
Very good.
Good demonstration
My Dad could square file as fast as he could round file in the woods and was very consistent at it, I could not, so I square grind. It's too bad that square grinders cost so much in Australia. I only run square grind on my felling chains. The difference in cutting speed and durability over round and Hexa is night and day for me. In my testing the Hexa files were $$$ junk and with the Hexa grind I went through chain much faster than square or round ground. I mostly run full skip either Carlton A1LMSK ( converted to square) or Oregon 72CJ, but it is also available in full and semi skip sequence as well. Like any other grind, setting ones depth gauges for the conditions you are cutting is very important to overall performance as well as adjusting the top and side plate cutting angles for durability vs. speed. Control, speed, and durability in a combination of cutting conditions conditions like presented with felling Hardwoods is were sqaure ground really shines.
Good Information wish I was good at filing square ground also
I would like to explore square ground more. But any setup apart from filing is expensive. You have square jig now with CBN wheels available. And a dedicated square ground grinder simington will cost at least $2500 AUD so thats out of the question for me.
Double Chisel Bit files - Vallorbe Swiss. Search on CZcams for that.
Few quick points on it. They are deliberately missing low and keeping the 25-30 degree top plate angle. The advantage with doing it this way is it much faster when converting round to square because you don't have to take as much off and if you stuff it up, you end up with Hexa, so not great loss.
It's not proper square but is an easy way of getting some exposure to it.
@SawChainTheories. I tried square filing and it's time consuming takes a while ti get the hang of it but easy to make mistakes also
Oregon 75CL is a square ground full amount of cutters square ground chain. I run hot and cold with the Oregon chain usually deciding Stihl RS or Hexa is the better quality item.
I am just playing around with square grind at the moment, yes it really cuts well but hand filing is very time consuming for me, maybe I will get better at it and faster as times goes on.
For most of us square grind isnt worth the time or effort as a work chain. Yes it's faster but it's very hard to file and you cant touch it up in the woods easily like you can round ground or round filed chain.
Yes that is really the way it is. I agree. Maybe that's why I only tried it once
I've got a loop of Oregon square chisel chain (72CL072) and I've been sitting on it for more than a year and haven't tried it out yet.. you mentioning that the top-plate angle was less had me look.. this the 1st I noticed that its only like 15° or so.. I'd bet that square-chisel could cut awfully good, haven't ever pulled it out cause I'm always worried I'd hit something, saving it for a special occasion or for when I get a Simington or Square-jig
Great video by the way!
Yes wish they made a cheaper grinder for square ground chains
The chain I've got (oregon 72CL072) is full-comp square chisel.. so they do make it
So can you buy a full complement 20 inches chain with 36 cutters Stihl never had that only full skip
@@ChainsawUsers I've got a 20in 72dl chain that's square ground with links on each tooth.. L cutter, drive link, R cutter and so on.. full comp, not skip or semi skip but that's an Oregon chain not a Stihl. Got it on ebay last year for $22 US
@JoshNoss so it has 36 cutters yes, that's full comp. DO Stihl manufacture full complement chain ?
Oregon do by the looks of it
@@ChainsawUsers I don't know if stihl does or not, I don't have a dealer near me so all of my saws are Husqvarna and I only get the odd Stihl chain on ebay from time to time. I do recall that it was pretty hard to find the full compliment square ground chain when I was looking to buy the one I've got. Skip chain on anything less than 28" bar never made much sense to me.
@JoshNoss sounds about right to me. Most people buy semi chisel.
Full comp chain is not for home users lol
You can easily achieve virtually any top plate cutting angle by projecting the file more or less above the top plate.
For simplicity, let's assume that the top plate is perpendicular to the drive links.
For what value of projection do we get 40°? Simple math shows that then 11.71% is needed.
For 20%, we get 53°.
For 25%: 60°.
For 10%, which also often appeared in instructions from different periods, the cutting angle is 37°.
By the way, what value appears in the paper manual of your FG2 (if it was included), because in the electronic one it is 10%?
It seems that 10% may not be enough, but let's take an example of cutting angle measurements for several harvester chains (semi or chamfer chisels), where the measurement was made on the opposite side of the cutting corner.
Carlton: 44°
Stihl 1: 43°
Stihl 2: 36°
Oregon: 46°
Of course, smaller file protrusion values also reduce the side plate angle, which will be especially noticeable with chisel cutters. That's when the (in)famous file down angle comes into play, which will increase the side plate angle in relation to the obtained cutting angle.
On the FG2 it just talks a bit about 10° tilt just an opinion to use it.
There is never ever any detail in any Stihl manual whatsoever.
Even with the Stihl USG grinder just has setting values without any explanation whatsoever. And this is case for most chainsaw manuals.
You should write a book on chainsaw angles. Many people would buy it. You must read a lot.
How many times do you use your chainsaw as opposed to reading?
You have a great in-depth knowledge about the techniques of using chainsaws and chain sharpening ect ect
Even the Stihl USG grinder chart took me forever to understand it the 1 2 3 with circles and the top and bottom information in the boxes.
The bottom text in the box, refers to -15/+15 and raker wheel number to be used
One you know that the rest is easy
That's why I made a video so I would not forget.
Yes i forgot the text in the bottom row again, and had to watch my own video lol
"By the way, what value appears in the paper manual of your FG2"
I have an old paper 1 from the 80's and some of its recommendations are pretty wild by today standards. File sizes for all 3/8 and 404 chains - 4.8mm. 1/2 chain is 6.3mm
Note - below is directory from the manual. I think something was lost in translation because it's about as clear as mud.
On the file hight it says the following,
"The correct setting is obtained by turning the setting screw in until the file is lifted somewhat from the tooth gullet. Thereafter by left turning release the file until it just touches the bottom of the tooth gullet at the same time resting against the cutter front."
I have never tried following the advice written in there, but I might try doing a 3/8 chain with a 4.8mm, set at that depth just to see what happens.
@SawChainTheories file sizes as follows
1/4 4.0mm 5/32
3/8p 4.0mm 5/32
0.0325 4.8mm 3/16
3/8 5.2mm 13/64
.404 5.5mm 7/32
The is not even a mention or a arrow for the adjustment 10° tilt no where in the manual is they any mention.
That's pathetic from Stihl
@@ChainsawUsers Mine has this section,
"The vertical setting of the swivelling piece remains at "0" when sharpening Rapid-Standard (chipper) Rapid-Micro, Picco-Micro and Topic-Micro chain. When sharpening Rapid-Super and Topic-Super chain, however, the swivelling piece is set to 10 degrees in such a way that the filing handle swings downward"
@SawChainTheories My Stihl USG grinder chart calls for -15/+15 on the B scale sliding vice for every chain except tungsten carbide and Hexa all other require the -15/+15 setting
There is no explanation in user manual just a USG chart with setting
The other advantage is more precise cutting when falling. A humboldt is quite a bit more difficult with round chain comparatively. And its smoother cutting. You can just make those little adjustments better with sqaure chain on angled cuts b
So you do a bit of falling yes. I mainly cut for firewood and bit of milling
@@ChainsawUsers I do. Not professionally. But I cut for a sawmill. Typical facecut for falling ruins a bit of the butt wood. So I started using the Humboldt to make better use of the wood for that purpose. And my terrain is also very steep similar to the Pacific northwest though I'm on the east coast in the US. Both will get the tree on the ground. But the Humboldt saves the log a little better and just in my inexperienced opinion allows me to aim the fall a bit better as well. When you have a dutchman as they call it in the pnw. It's a lot easier to nip it out. And if I need to steepen the undercut angle after I've cut it. Very smooth to take that extra bit out. Round kind of chatters and is a little harder to get what I want. Could be my inexperience. I am no pro. Just on the journey to figure out what works best for me in my environment.
@Mightycaptain forgive me what is humboldt meaning
@@ChainsawUsers Humboldt is the reverse of your typical face cut. So you go in horizontal and instead of putting your notch on top after that you put the notch under your first horizontal cut.