WinISD Tutorial - Ported Speaker - Port size and Air Velocity
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- In this tutorial we will be looking at how to properly determine port size, what type of port to use and how to prevent cuffing. In other words, how to properly design a ported enclosure within WinISD that will sound and perform great!
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dang! i always thought that if you had two vents you could divide the given vent length by two.... apparently that's not the case. glad I saw this video! Thank you so much!
Vincent Koster you're welcome. That's a common misconception. I'm glad it helped
Really useful series, thank you for producing!
Awesome, came across this trying to figure out if i was gonna have noise and this was perfect...thank you!
sas281gt so glad it helped. Feel free to check out my other videos, they are based on Diy speakers, subwoofers and electronics.
when putting in the box volume do i put in the gross internal volume or
the internal volume after port, bracing and speaker displacement
Correction to my previous comment . . . the 3" driver is HiVi B3N.
Great tutorial, i have a ground zero 2x12 sub in the stock box but i want to make my own box to hit even lower frequenciues :)
Definitely! Then you'll have the best Ground Zero's of anyone!
🔴 great video. is 10 m/s too low for air velocity
Hey man thanks for the videos
thank you, please I have a 30w, 8ohm speaker. that's the only 2 data I read on the emant. how I can calculate the air of my box (speaker) to be made using winISD?
Hey man awesome video what should the group delay be at?
The ND65-4 is a 2.5" full range...not a 4". Even more impressive.
How about folded horns like cerwin Vega could u design with this tool.?
Hello, excellent video! Congrats. Could you please elaborate few words on 1st port resonance in case of 1 fullrange speaker in BR enclosure? How does it impact? I am looking at 110l BR with Visaton BG20 but the 1st post resonance tend to be 3kHz with ąprox 2" port. Will it be audible or such high resonance is negligible ?
merci,svp jai un haut parleur de 30w,8ohm.c'est les 2 données là seulement j'ai lu sur l'emant. comment je peux calculer l'air de mon coffret(enceinte) à confectionner à l'aide de winISD?
Awesome channel i love it
but exist a prorgam to design all box?i mean all dimensions of wood,interior ??
Thank you for this video Toids! I started design on a 2-way with HiVi B4N and a Dayton tweeter using winisd (0.7.0.950) and with the manufacture's specs. I was able to successfully complete the design (ported with 1x2". 9.7cm long, flared tube). However, the resulting volume to me seems to be a bit too much. What puzzles me more is when I create a similar project using the 3" version of the same driver (B4N), the resulting volume is significantly larger than he design for the 4" enclosure considering the design is fo a smaller driver. Could this be due to a fault in the software?
What I didn't get is what to do when the speakers are too large? If you want to vent an Eminence Alpha 15 for example, it requires an impossible cabinet volume and/or vent lenght.
That's typically a good candidate for a passive radiator. Or you can try to tune it higher
Hi 123Toid! I really like your videos, they are incredibly helpful in designing subwoofer boxes. Though I do have a particular question about this video. At 14:17 you are saying that to know the internal volume of the box, we need to subtract the port volume from the box volume, but right after that you said that the internal volume is 0.062 cubic feet plus the port volume. So do we need to subtract the port volume or add it together?
Great question! I can see why that would be confusing. I'll have to try to convey this differently from here on. The total box volume will need to be whatever WinISD comes up with (0.62 in this case) + port volume + any internal bracing. So if your theoretical port is .05 cubic feet and your theorectical internal bracing is .05 cubic feet, then your total volume of that box should be (0.62+.05+.05) 0.72 cubic feet. What I meant by subtracting, is when you subtract .05 cubic feet from your port and another .05 cubic feet for your bracing, your box volume should equal the original WinISD box volume of 0.62 cubic feet. I hope this helps.
Thank You! This helped me out a lot, appreciate it.
mine doesn't look anything like yours. i am not sure how you get that view
this program isnt too accurate in air velocity. i have a 8 inch sub in a 1 cf box 30 hz, 2 inch aeroport and there is absolutely no chuffing in real life but when I put it in WinISD, it shows my air velocity for 30hz at 160 m/s and about 50 m/s for 40hz LOL. with that being said, would an 11.25" area slot port be okay for a single 8?
Since a speaker itself takes up volume, and any bracing, how does one calculated the real internal volume? Thanks in advance.
If you put the dimensions of the driver in winISD, it will tell you how much volume it will take up. The bracing you just have to calculate yourself or with a program like SketchUp. One of the easier ways is to use Days V2. This won't give you the volume, but it will tell you the final tuning frequency, which will help if you're in the ballpark of the volume.
Hello! Is there a way to measure a port? I pulled out the port from an Z-5500 system and I'd like to know the dimensions. I could use the port for a car setup, but I'd pretty much know the dimentions of the port before I do anything.
You never made videos about using WinISD to design bandpass
hi, is it possible to make a slot port instead of a tube ( or vented i think it's called?!!) ?
Yes, in fact I spend a few minutes on it during the video
how about those big subwoofer are they gonna go 17m/s peak too?
Yes
What if i want the blueprints of the box ? I dont know where to put ports and etc....
That is a good question. The port/ports can go anywhere. As far as the dimensions of the box, they are up to you. That is the beauty of DIY. You just need to make sure that you have the correct internal cubic feet. Here is a site I use to check my measurements. If this does not help, let me know, I'll make a video on it. www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
Thank you. I was mad that everyone just had their box in liters and that was it :D
I tought that it has to do something with the air flow where the ports are.
Gamerdu45 it's just pressure. It wants to escape, maybe there are some strategic positions but since they aren't studio monitors or anything you shouldn't even notice
hello friend can you help me with the measurements for a closed box for media with the B&C 10MD26 8Ω speaker since tutorials in Spanish I cannot find and I cannot understand with what little they say
En espanol no ay muchos videos que ensenen como usar el winisd?
Yo tambien estoy aprendiendo a usarlo.
how do you get box shape editor, because i got same version and it says its now available in alfa ??
I'm not sure why that is. Try the version you find in their Facebook page. That is the one I currently use and have not had any problems. facebook.com/WinISD/
Please recommend a version which support Passive Radiator simulation. The actual version doesn’t support. Thanks!
The default box volume is very big for me. Can I adjust the tuning frequency and box volume as per need ? Or will that cause problem ?
Yes you can
@@Toid Thank you so much. I am trying to build a speaker with 2 hivi b4n drivers and peerless bc25sc06-8 in MTM configuration. They are giving 43Hz tuned frequency with 37Hz F3 in a 0.866 ft³ ported box. Are they a good pair ? Or do you suggest anything else. I was thinking of Dayton Audio tcp115 as mids. I am on a budget. This is my first project. Thanks for your tutorial. I am learning all of it.
When calculating the port length, does WinISD expect that the port be inside of the box or outside? Because obviously having a port on the inside would reduce the effective volume of the box?
50LightSabersInAPack That's a great question! WinISD will tell you the cubic feet needed. You have to manually figure out how much space your port will take and add it to the total cubic feet of the box.
Add it? I would have thought you'd need to subtract the port volume from the box volume value entered for WinISD to replot the data?
50LightSabersInAPack You do. I was trying to imply that if you want your current graph, you'd have to add in the port volume when you built it.
Ah right got it, thanks.
I have the current winisd beta and it lacks a lot of the features you are showing. I used a version of winisd about 5 yrs ago and I remember having these extra functions. Is there a version available for free that provides the same features as you utilize in this video?
www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd
Can you do a video of the new version WinISD 0.7 2016?
I was planning to. I might have to move it up the priority list
123Toid awesome..I decently downloaded to do a box build with 2 Pioneers TS-W261D4 or 2 DC Audio Level 1 10's
At 8:00, when you increase to two ports and it says 18.73" for the vent length, does that mean each port has to be 18.73", or that the length for each port is VentLength / Number?
Yes. Each port has to be a length of 18.73." THat is why it can be tricky to design around multiple ports. As you increase the number or size of the port, the each port gets longer.
Ah crud lol ok. The ports can presumable have a fair few twists right? I presume aswell that if I select "Two free ends", it means neither end of the port of has any flange or flare?
Lol, I know it can be hard to come up with the right size port. The ports can have some twists in them. However, if you are going with round ports (aka pvc pipe), make sure you go with slow bend elbows and not sharp 90's. This will allow the air to flow freely. Also when measuring the elbow length, measure the middle of the elbow, not the inside or outside.
Two free ends does presume no flare. However, a flare will always reduce port noise, so I always add one if I can. The best way to do this, is to add a roundover to the outside of the subwoofer enclosure. That means that the outside of the box would become part of the length of the port. Here's a good look at one I did: czcams.com/video/gMUI2t7_svM/video.htmlm10s
I'll give that some thought, thanks!
You're Welcome
What if I change the number until port length is 1/4 of turning frequency wavelength, Will my design work as a transmission line with a chamber?
There's an option to test as a transmission line. Just check that box.
@@Toid Thanks for super fast response. I check that box and my SPL graph have a weird peak and dip. I try to adjust the port length to 1/4 wavelength of turning frequency and I got a lot more peak and dip, Is that normal?
@@StillRenderFilm honestly I'm not an expert and transmission lines. There is a CZcams channel on transmission lines. He also frequently my forum. you could check the forum or try to contact him directly.
@@Toid What is his channel name?
@@StillRenderFilm transmissionlinedesigns there's also a really good thread going on at the forum right now about transmission lines. www.toidsdiyaudio.com/community
how much can you change the size of the box compared to what they give you ?
As much as you want.
@@Toid so it won't be a problem for the driver to over throw ? The software wants me to use 1.9 but I find 3.0 hits the lows like I want and doesnt really affect the rest of the freq curve
@@zorhis1996 for that, you'd need to check the excursion tabs. there's too many variables to be able to tell you if it will be a problem or not. some of the things keep an eye on are cone excursion, tuning frequency, box size, port size, port velocity and first port resonance.
@@Toid ok I will do more research :) thank you :)
@@zorhis1996 you can get all the information from winISD. If you're unsure of everything you need, post some screen shots on the forum and we will help you out. www.toidsdiyaudio.com/community
How does volume works in this program? e.g. If I put in an int. box vol of .65ft3 and after figure out the length and area of port let's say it come up to a vol of 0.011ft3. Does this mean the actual int vol of my box is .661ft3(.65+.011) or the vol the same .65 where the speaker enclosure is now .639ft3 and the port is .011ft3, which adds back up to .65ft3.
Great Question. If you have come up with a response that you like at .661 cubic feet, you will want your internal volume to match that. This means, you will need to add the volume that the port will take up, as well as the driver. So your box would be .661+.011 (port) + the internal volume of the driver.
Win ISD, can actually figure out the space your driver will take up. When you are inputing or editing a driver, go to the last tab labeled "dimensions" insert the known dimensions to come up with the "dvol" this will give you the cubic feet the driver will actually take up.
Oh, thanks for clearing that up for me.
+John ND you're welcome. If you need any clarifying questions feel free to ask.
What if the air velocity is to low?
It won't be. Too low is good. Just make sure you input your wattage
went real dirty at 11:38
Hi. I’ve watched this video a few times, But can’t figure out where the F3 the graph plots and the tuning freq that I can change interact with each other. What is the tuning freq that can be changed and the f3 have to do with one another.
My 4” Dayton speaker combo tuning will come up with 64 hz, amd my f3 will be 55 for the 4” drivers. Problem is my box is to big. So I change the volume and it of course changes my graph to a lesser quality. If I change the tuning freq to high say 85, graph looks better, and my f3 is now 70 hz. But if I built a box, what am I doing physically with the tuning hz at the box? Feels like I shouldn’t be able to change the tuning freq field, as it gives me a false graph. Thanks.
1975oldschool a speaker is tuned based off box size and port length based off the speakers TS parameters. So there's a lot of those small speakers that take huge boxes in order to get tuned really low. Sometimes you have to compromise by having a smaller box with a higher tuning frequency
123Toid Thank you! I did some more searching and think I figured it out.
Hi can I use a 1.5" are port ? where do I want the air velocity at ? .88 cb ft box tuned to 23.23 win isd says it will be 9.8 is that to low? my sub is pioneer ts sw3002s4
Brian Perez make sure you put in the wattage you'll be using. That would be under signal and then system input power. My guess is your graph is at that with only one watt power which would most likely be too high
Yes it shot way up😣
Brian Perez i have more questions are you in a forum ?
123Toid are you in a forum ? I have more questions .
Hey! I see you're still replying to quite a few people, so I have 2w box with a port i've designed 11" x 1" slotted port tuned to 38hz and the port has a air velocity of 15.1m/s at 33hz. My issue is that with music and even very layered audio its fine but with spoken word or interviews ect. it has a sort of whistle to it at around what sounds like 400-600hz. any suggestions on how to solve this? cheers.
It's really hard to say, but you should take a look at your first Port resonance in WinISD. See if there's a correlation to what you're hearing
@@Toid thanks for replying! that was the first thing I looked at and the 1st port resonance is 556hz which is pretty bang on to what I'm hearing, any suggestions on how to combat that? or even redesign as I'm lucky enough to have only made test boxes so far. cheers.
@@justdace2854 from here it's really trial and error. The first thing I would do is line the enclosure with some type of acoustic foam. Make sure to keep it away from the opening of the port.
@@Toid I was afraid that might be the case. Is treating the inside with uneven bits of wood as a sort of a acoustical damping a viable solution? its just I tried to use acoustical foam at one point and it sucked all the life from it. so i was hoping for another solution to maintain it a bit. Thanks for responding!
@@justdace2854 no. You could try just a little at a time. Start with the rest of the enclosure
so yeah i think 125.987 ft/s at 30.23 hz is not good
ok but there is absolutely no way im going to get that low of port velocity with a woofer tho.. where are the good ranges for subs?
If you do not want chuffing, you will want to keep the port velocity at or under 17 m/s or 56 f/s. You can always get port velocity to meet those requirements, it just depends on the length of your port and or tuning frequency. It is possible you are tuning it too low. If you find the port way too long, then try PR's. That's one of the main reasons people use PR's. In builds where the port is way too long to be realistic.
Having said this, if you don't mind chuffing, you can go higher, I wouldn't but you can. You can also use a flared port to decrease chuffing, however the same size port will now be longer. Unfortunately WinISD will not take this into account, so you'd have to trial and error it on your own.
im at about 109ft/s with 10" w6 in a 2.5 cu ft box tuned to 39hz with a 6in diameter port 15.56in long.. theres not really good information on "good" curves and "bad" curves associated with this program
try a slot port
idk if i have the building skills for that lol
try a slot port. 109 is definitely not good, lol
F3 =FB???????
mohammad alsammak FB is the tuning frequency of the box. The F3 is where the speaker plays 3db down
thank you very much.but i don't understand that point if i have fb 40hz then f3 is 35 hz is that right?
It could be. If you tune your speaker to say 40hz (fb), you then have to look at your graph and look for the F3 line. Then see where at what frequency your graph crosses the line. That is now your f3. In this case I showed it around 3:40 in the video. The F3 is around 48hz. with the tuning frequency of 59.11
thank you very much