Installing the Apex Engineered Kit in the 280z (and Why I Regret It)
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2024
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Removing ALL 280z Suspension and Rear End : • Removing ALL 280z Susp...
Disclaimer: Windows Down is not responsible for any damage or injury caused by the information contained in this video. Windows Down is not affiliated with the products used or described in this video.
Intro:(00:00)
Install:(01:06)
The Problems:(07:19)
V2 Rear End:(12:09) - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Alright, this saved me a bunch of headache... so go T3, got it.
Appears that “fully adjustable” really means “sloppy tolerances”
I’ve had nothing but great experiences with them thus far. They’ve always been really communicative with any issues or problems I faced. They’re even replacing my 8.8 subframe with the new an updated one. Not everything is a smooth journey but it’s a breath of fresh air to have a company work with you to fix issues or problems that arise. I’ll keep posted on my experiences. 🤙🏼
Good to hear it's moving along!
Great video, shame that Apex wasn't able to sort you out. I've been working with Apex for 5 years now, and have a lot of good things to say about them. Everything I've bought has been with the expectation that it's a very very good starting point, but that I'll have a little work to do to get it the rest of the way. Parts of your video ring true do. Communication can be trying, it's a small shop and it's tricky when you are the squeaky wheel. Shipping a lead times are a challenge, and I've had good and bad here, I think it about levels out. I do feel like the AE team are responsive to feedback in a way a lot of folks aren't, and they are pushing in some very cool directions with the fabrication. From a strength perspective, I've put all my parts through the ringer and we've come out the other side. Good luck with the build, it looks awesome!
unacceptable get your maufactoring tolererances sorted washers are not a solution use proper shims/spacers perferiably with thrust bearings or proper bushings washers are lazy engineering
That kit would have lost me at “crap ton of washers”
Glad to see you're still making progress! I'm researching doing a similar Honda swap on my S30 and your video have been tremendously helpful. Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
Bless your heart for having the patience to deal with this company for so long. 👏
Posting my thoughts as I have front and rear kits for a 240z. I'm sorry you had a disappointing experience but I think you were clear and concise with the pinch points during your process. For mine, I waited a while but I intentionally told them that I take forever on my projects so don't worry about it. I got in on a black Friday sale so I knew it would be busy for them. Because of my slowness I took forever to find out I was missing a few little pieces, a bolt kit (not the major ones), a boot, so I blame myself for finding that like... a year later. I really thought they would tell me tough luck but they were eager to help and able to get those out to me. I agree that sometimes communication can lag but I give grace knowing how small businesses go. It was evident to me they were seeing my emails when we had conversations. I take some of the blame because of my slowness and when I saw something I stopped and started firing emails instead of going through the whole thing and sending a single concise email (email 101, use less words, use bullet points, put it all in one instead of many). I didn't face any fitment issues and I can go back and check my vehicle and make a video to show my personal experience if anyone is intrigued. For my rear end I chose the Ford 8.8 style with 370z stock ebrake. It was implied on the product page but not called out specifically on the assembly diagram that you will need the 370z back plate. This really threw me for a loop, personally, because I had never seen an ebrake that was a drum brake, within the center of a disk on disk brakes. Drum brakes have backplates (sometimes called dust plates). This plate has a thickness, maybe 1/16" or smaller? It sandwiches between the hub and the upright and if you are missing it then the hub will be too far inboard and consequently your disk. So, I initially thought I had some clearance issues as the disk wasn't centered in the caliper. More communication with Apex. They had gone so far to machine a new caliper bracket until we were on the phone and I was like wait a second, how does the ebrake work. I felt really bad but they said don't worry about it. I did let them know I think I would add those details into the drawing and product listing. Some things are overly clear, others like this are not, and it might just me being more experienced on some topics and less with others. Other things that were slightly unclear might be the spacer for the axles which you will or won't get depending on which rear end kit you go with. I'd expect to see them in the assembly drawing with a note indicating only those with [this kit] will get them. On that note, what they were very clear on was to use OEM 370z axles. I repeat ONLY. OEM. I bought aftermarket, frankly they were cheaper new, and I learned that those CV axles don't have a tapered edge which a snapring needs so it can compress as you're whacking it loose. TLDR: aftermarket CV axles don't separate. The product listing did specifically say OEM only and I am a moron. Other things - loose hardware in the plastic form fit agreed but its like legos its not hard to figure out, everything else on mine was pristinely packaged, customer service was great, comms were eh, fitment was good, and I still think this is the best solution to integrate multiple upgrades into one kit (brakes, engine mounts, adjustability, affordable rear ends, axles, affordable and sustainable hubs, 5 lug conversion).
Thanks for sharing, glad you got it ironed out. I briefly looked into the 370z drum brake setup as well and was pretty confused how it would piece together as well. Is the car driving? Very interested to see how it handled and feels because I haven't talked to many that have the kit on the road. But we all know project cars take a lotttttt of time, so can't blame anyone on that
Sorry it didn’t work out for you. My parts have all fit with an expected amount of tailoring. The disclaimer and videos from power nation seemed spot on for what I experienced. If something was wrong Apex made it right. There were some long wait time for some parts but not all of them. The washers thing did drive me a bit crazy, when you dropped them in the video I laughed because I did that a million times. lol
Happy to hear you got things dialed in! And yes definitely dropped too many washers to count
Loved the video. Sorry to hear about your apex experience. When you spend big money on a kit like this, you should not run into this many issues. My experience with Techno Toy Tuning has been nothing but positive with them and never had an issue. Looking forward to more videos. Oh and btw, officially got the L28 you sold me completely restored and running better than new. Thanks again!
Appreciate the support Anthony. Some things take some iteration. Happy to hear that L28 found a good home!
Just commented on a different Z build with LS swap utilizing the same Apex rear setup and you could see obvious toe changes due to flexing as the car accelerated hard. Looking at the kit it seems pretty apparent that the front tube of the control arm is unsupported. Its a single tube on its own without triangulation. Arm needs another tube connecting between the two spherical ball joints if it's going to handle high torque motors and wide tires.
@tomc24 there's no problem with the tube it's the hub that flexes. They have now fixed this but when I saw that I was wondering what the hell was going on. The toe-link design is superior to the stock style fixed arm. There's a large write up about the history that led to this on HybridZ.
Damn I’ve been eyeing that kit for awhile but glad you made this so I can avoid them.
Wow! I wince every time you point out an issue. The amount of fiddle factor on this kit would've driven me crazy.
Thanks for this. I'm about to do a resto on my '78 and was looking at apex.
Long story short, don’t buy Apex
I think Godzilla Raceworks had the same issues
Wow good luck man on that project I'm looking for a suspension package for my 300ZX also but thanks for the info appreciate it thank you thank you
Love the channel name.
Wow. This made me very glad I went with t3. I strongly considered apex with my rear end swap
I bought the same Apex kit, front and rear. I had the same issues you had in both kits.They have "engineered" in their name, but the product says otherwise! My kit only came with exploded views of the parts, no installation instructions at all.
Good job returning those dune buggy parts.
Seeing this instantly made me put a pause on the $10,000 I was about to spend with them. I’ve only seen and heard good things, but have eyeballs and can clearly see all the issues you ran into. I wouldn’t be happy spending $10k and having to cut and grind my brand new powdercoated parts. I was just about to buy the Track Attack kit, but my heart would sink waiting another year to get my car on the road only to have to return those parts. They should have given you like half your money back and let you keep the kit. Looks like I’ll be going T3 or Arizona Zcar now. 😢
Yeah sadly just not too many people running the kit, and some have modded it, so it's hard to say what it's like on the road. What's your power goals? I just posted a video of my new solution: FutoFab with some T3 parts. Keeps suspension geometry basically OEM and it's been done for a while. It should handle good power with STi diff. Or big power with the original R200 and you can swap internals/LSD.
@@windows_down_Going to get BIG power…. LS7 with a 3.8L Whipple Supercharger and backed by a T56 trans. Want something that can do AutoX, Road course, and still hit like a hammer in the 1/4 mile. I’ll definitely check out your other video. I know ONE other Z guy I race with (has an LS-A in his), has the TrackAttack and he didn’t mention any drama getting it installed. I was really looking forward to the cantilever rear suspension. 😢
Ok yeah that's a lot of power haha, sounds like a blast!
@@windows_down_It dynoed 672hp before the Whipple was even purchased, so yeah, should break 1000hp no problem. That’s why I wanted the Track Attack kit with the 8.8 swap since they said it was good for “1200hp” using their axles. I also just want it to be nasty everywhere, not just on a drag strip, which is why I wanted the IRS. Hopefully they can step up their game and deliver what they make claims on, cause for $10k after tax and shipping and extra bits to buy…. I could probably hire a fabrication shop to produce the same product, better. 🤷🏻♂️ Sorry you went through all that and lost a year of downtime, just to get a refund. Heartbreaking. 💔
Appreciate the condolences, definitely not ideal. Best of luck on the 1000hp build! Rbzed25 on insta has some stuff about modding his track attack kit too
Dude I PRE-ORDERED the original rear end kit. I mean I signed up for it but talk about sloppy/lazy craftsmanship. Thankfully, my friends dad helped me out with a few custom fabricated brackets so the e-brake would work.
I also got really good at adjusting, those joints.. one of them wasn’t quite able to synch itself into the end of the control arm and would cause one of the joints to slowly unscrew itself, making the car seem okay, but exponentially get way loose/bad clunking noise.
This was because the tube that’s threaded on the inside (where heim joint screws into to the control arm) wasn’t set properly and is a couple mm below sitting flush like the other 3 spots the joints screw into the end of control arm.
But it took my dumbass like 6 months and 4 cheap used tires for the rear driver side only. (Other tires wearing normal)
I emailed them and they offered to make me a new one or give me a $300 gift card to their E-store
I had already had been running the kit for like a a year and was determined to get the this shit I already dedicated like 2.5 years and way too much $$. Plus I already waited 9 months for the “up to 6 month preorder time” listed at purchase so I asked for a new one..
Got email offering to send me new control arm back in the middle of September. No response, Reached back out to them today, but have low hopes 😢
Wow I feel for you man what you went through
1 second ago
Its unfortunate this happened to you. I’ve heard a lot of horror stories similar to yours about apex kits thats why I did not buy a rear kit from them. Invincible Super 8.8 kit is the way to go. Proven performance.
Wish I had heard those stories beforehand haha
I have the most recent version of this kit, shipped in less than 2 weeks with some axle delay (will update at a later date) I will say their packaging on the parts themselves is EXCEPTIONAL now; so well packed in fact that I was afraid I might miss something in the expanding foam that they used. I have the updated heim joint spacers, and as I dive in to it I will update with how well this change functions. I did have a question as to why you installed that rear bolt next to the tubular mount to the chassis in that direction, I was able to install it in the inverse direction and didn't seem to have an issue getting it in without having to remove that mount. (maybe that's wrong, however I don't expect that to fail.) I have a 72 240 though so I can not comment on having to cut anything as I didn't have to do anything other than persuade the spare tire location and notch the frame. I also didn't have to cut into the original Diff strap, I just removed the installation bar prior to putting it up as the Diff locked everything in place and can confirm that we no longer need the spacers. I also have the front suspension as well and so far its looking sick. Something to note on the Axel side of things the owner had looped in some people a while back on some of the forums, unfortunately my guess is there was an issue with their machinist as it was noted in those posts that it has been a struggle to get that reliably in the past so I knew that going in. I will come back with some of the additional stuff once I am a roller!
That's awesome, hopefully the new revisions work out. For the installation bar across the front of the diff: My understanding, which could be wrong, is that initially this was just for installation but later was recommended to keep on. They sent me a powder coated one later on to use, but not sure if it's needed or not. Best of luck with the build and keep us posted!
O that's interesting mine was laser etched "remove after installation" I just had removed it anyways because I was over confident that I could bend the arms to the needed location lol. At least your not having to do a ton of body work on yours I got a chassis by itself and boy was it whooped lol
@@windows_down_
Hi Windows Down,
Sorry for your poor experience with our rear kit. As of early last year, we have made quite a few changes to the rear kit:
One of them being we no longer support the 300zx differential, which at the time of your purchase we made the subframe universal to the 300zx and 370z diff. As of early last year we no longer support the 300zx differential, we are able to make the subframe specific to the 370z differential (without requiring those spacers). Another thing we have done is rather than having 3 adjustment holes to mount the rear control arm, we made the ones close to the axle with 2 holes as they clear the factory axle CVs and don't require cutting / grinding clearance. In addition, we made the rear control arms spacers that go inside the heim joint (rod end) longer to use only 1-2 washers rather than the numerous ones you have had to use. We also have updated the rear knuckles to have a bent and to offset the wheel the same distance as factory and to move the wheel mounting surface further from the spindle pin (can see from our picture on the website) which would clear the 16s (and some 15s) as well as moving the coilover further away from the chassis while still retaining its camber adjustment on the knuckle. The last item, which was the axles. Unfortunately, we should have caught those when they came back from our machinist. This was caused by a programming error which the machinist did not notice, which led to the axles with the snap ring groove cut in the wrong place. We since have a CV spider for each axle, which we check individually to prevent this from happening again. Lastly, with our packaging we have a Foam-In-Place packaging machine (as of October 2023) which protects the products significantly more than our old foam wrap and paper method.
A large part of the delay was the brake kit preorder. Promising a date for the brake kit which were not ready was a mistake, and we no longer accept any deposit / preorder for any product which is not released and in production. We have found that although prototype stages may be close or ready, manufacturing in a large batch took considerable more time for us and our vendors. We no longer make promises we can't keep and stay as transparent with a customer as possible even if it were to cost us the sale.
Something which we have been excited to release (1/24/24) is our online CZcams video instructions. These would go over installation, points of adjustment, things to consider, and types of powder coating and the benefits / drawbacks of each coating option we offer. This is in part to allow customers to have a transparent understanding of our product prior to purchase and to have set expectations on our products as well and of what may be required for the installation.
To wrap up, we are sorry for your experience with our product and appreciate the genuine feedback in this video. Wish you the best with your Z build!
This is BAD-BAD and never ever Apex!
Wow - way to own up to those early issues, @apexengineered. I know how difficult it is to launch a new product, and anyone who’s dealt with “preorder” situations before knows how long these things can take. I’m looking at your kit for a z31 and after this response I will definitely keep moving in that direction.
I allso buy this kit. 2year ago. Shipped to sweden. But if i know what i know now i have buy the t3.
Haven't watched yet, but I know street bandito has had a lot of success with techno toy tuning for 240/280 suspension and rear end stuff.
The couple parts I do have from T3 look like they're great quality
wow...I thought they make good quality products that are "engineered" for the Z car...very surprised how bad their fitment and everything is, just crazy...won't buy any products from them. their customer service is an other strory. thank you for the video and hope you got your money back in the end!
"And now we're gonna use more washers"...The shaaade!!!!!🤣
Good grief. Hard pass!! Thank you for your sacrifice!
Bummer on the problems you had I could easily point out a few mistakes you made during your install but the kit is gone. My fully adjustable suspension worked out with a few adjustments and I’m very happy with my apex kit
Glad it worked out. Can you sum up those mistakes for others for reference? Or any other tips
@@windows_down_ the biggest one is you did not use the miss alignment spacers on the control arms that cause 99% of your issues on the control arms. They have an install video the recently put out that shows it. Mine went in like a breeze and the alignment shop here in Prescott as loved the adjustability of it
Ahh thanks for the tip. I guess my kit was delivered before those were included
They have a video online and it’s very explanatory. So you must of been dealing with something weird. But watching you install it I kept saying no don’t do that. Nope that’s wrong. Why are you doing that ? lol. If you watch their video then watch yours you will understand 👍
Personally didn't see much different.. and they had axles that fit lol
Even if you had made that fit with out interferences at the points you show, I would be very concerned with the suspension geometry & getting a successful alignment afterward. It looks like every aspect of the camber, toe & caster are completely up in the air, and having to use a multitude of washers to make it fit is shoddy. Captive nuts on all the arm mount points would have made life a little easier also.
I have their front subframe & trans mount kit for the VQ35DE drivetrain conversion. I bought it ahead of time, so I would have everything I need prior to the install. Hopefully I don't encounter this level of modding to make it work.
This is worrisome, I received my kit last month and I’m still waiting on axle shafts. I have their front crossmember for my 2jz it had a few fitment issues but nothing major
What did you run into with the fitment issues? I just slapped my front one in and it was pretty clean
If I could copy this whole video and the exact circumstances I would, but you beat me to it. I ordered the track attack, but also like you waiting 10 months for most of the parts. Well I'm still holding my breath and although I do have all the "parts" on the car it has been impossible to ge the right rear shafts. My support and customer service mimics yours too. Something should be done but honestly I am so far past this car build. I have moved on too. I have had and raced mine for years so the attachment runs deep. I sold all my suspension right after purchasing the kit and waiting 6 months to only put my car on a rack to wait and wait. I just recieved the "New" parts, I mean just last week 2-20-2024 and honestly its like a whole different rear kit. I can't tell if its better or not because no one is running this kit on the forums. If they do run this kit they are customizing it and still re-enginnering it. If you are looking for a kit like this be warned it will take a long while, you will get frustrated, you wont get calls or support like you want, but if you have the time and can wait it will come. My parts look great, the powdercoating is amazing and its beautful, the packaging is 1st class. I wish their had instructions and I really would love some feedback on the new benefits of the complete different rear end now. Now its what do for halfshafts. Im running a ford diff and a 370 outeraxles. Does anyone know of anyone that builds these. I can't wait for another year.
good to know
Dang. I hope I don't regret this purchase... I just received my kit last week...
I don't think you will I am working through it now and so far most of those concerns have been addressed from what I can tell, keep in mind the kit was purchased a year ago in this video so there has been a large amount of changes since then.
Wheels hitting lol didn't even install the bearing spacer for the 370z caliper or the rotor, which brings the wheel out quite a bit omg
I bought their front subframe and it took like 4 months to get finished and they ended up shipping it with cracked powder coating so I returned
sorry this went bad, dont understand the honda motor swap, NOTHING beats a tuned inline 6. Good luck with the project
Appreciate it!
Wow for the price of these parts and the fact that they build them, you'd think they'd know how to measure... but washers are cheap.
I had there front control arms and they are trash! Glad i didnt buy a full kit. Ended up getting all the t3 8.8 stuff. Every fits perfectly 👌
So I watched the video and I'm not sure how to approach this topic. Aftermarket suspension kits are designed to fit multiple applications. Shims and spacers are very common on higher end units due to the different parts you can install. I've installed extreemly high end units on hot rods and other cars and they all have spacers and washers. As for the powder coating, it needs to be cleaned and prepped before installing. Apex has done nothing but right by me. Ohm goes above and beyond to help me sometimes taking time from his weekend to answer my questions or confirm the assembly is correct. My personal feelings and opinion, if an aftermarket suspecsion doesn't have adjustability, it's not a great part, just good. I will continue to support Apex and the products they offer.
Wow, thats an atrociously bad kit, nothing worse than being the beta tester for a parts maker's lax development and business model, To lose that amount of time and money is unforgivable. Dream crusher. Really hope the next option is a more favourable experience.
Sucks you had so many problems. Maybe it was just the early release? I put my full apex rear kit in by my self in less than 20 mins. Everything fit perfectly. No cutting or any issues.
Glad it worked out. Mine was early release to work with their brake kit, but normal rear kit had been out for some time. How's your ride?
Glad to see this. Everything ive seen from apex is shit. All cheap stuff that doesnt fit right or work right and they keep they keep having people spend thousands just to not work right with poor customer service
If this is how they do business, they should not be in business very long. I'm highly disappointed as I was looking to purchasing their products.
I had a pretty similar experience with their full kit for the 280zx. All in all a pretty poor company
Glad i didnt go with Apex
Good video bro. Do you do product reviews for companies? We produce LEDs for auto, I'd love to explore an opportunity to work something out.
Apex is trash stay away! They screwed me on some coilovers and wielding service. Go with T3 all day long..