Nice video, thanks for sharing it. The driver on the platform waiting to relieve the 'liner was me, my Heavyhall job that morning was cancelled so I was 'nicked' by Intermodal to cover one of their Crewe diagrams, unfortunately I was not told that 4M95 had a 70 on it and since I've not driven one for well over a year I couldn't take it forward (I'm still waiting for a refresher on them!). After a few phone calls were made the Eastleigh guy I relieved worked his booked job back south and a Lawley Street man came out to work 4M95 forward to Crewe. Rules are rules, and if I'd taken it forward myself and had any kind of incident I'd be looking forward to receiving a P45 in the post!
Thank you very much Nigel for your comment on that morning, I was told by a freightliner guy what had happened but not so much info as you, that a driver had to come from Lawley Street in a taxi, but cheers for your in-depth story of that morning which I very much appreciate. ATB Mike.
Nuneaton is certainly a busy place Mike, so many freights always passing through. Magnificent shots and captures there! Glad you caught these! Excellent detailing and camera work! A perfect example of why I recommend your excellent channel! Nice intermodal trains and 70s! That mess up with 002 was interesting! The perfect vid! Great stuff! Top class! No faults at all! Well done! Great work! Highly enjoyable stuff! A winner! Nice car train and sleeper too! Nice clag from 002, interesting track machines in the back! Very nice indeed! Looooooooooooooooved it! Really enjoyed, thanks for sharing! Take care, have an awesome day and all the best! Jamie
Great video Mike. Nice early start, I'm not good at that lol. Nice bonus and mystery? with 70002. And 2 70's on containers!!! Only seem to see them on the rubbish in Cheshire.
The only problem and I'm not complaining Phil is I keep seeing the same class 70s, but yes my two hour visit to Nuneaton was interesting I think. Cheers Mike.
Great filming as usual Mike.Very enjoyable to watch. These TOC's expect drivers to work their rest days as they don't employ nearly enough so they are getting fed up with it. That may have had something to do with 700002.
Great captures Mike. I guess the train crew supervisor's job these days isn't quite as difficult as there isn't the variety of freight locos. Back in the day it could be with so many classes of loco. Super video, well done. 🤓
Evening Mike from my can in Morpeth 😊 Fantastic video as always 👍🏻 See Culina didn’t take long to rebrand some of its swap bodies 😂 Russell have started a new iport Doncaster to Mossend. Great seeing new freight on the rails 🤩
Well Morpeth is a bit different for you Stevie, sorry for late reply as the WCML is shut from Rugby to Stafford so everything is comimg along my local line so I'm out a lot more this week with all the freight diverts. great to see more freight services happening with that Doncaster one. ATB Mike.
Always enjoy seeing the beds coming through Nuneaton. My favourite time there is early evening at this time of the year when there is a hint of fog in the air. Happy memories of A/C electrics hurtling through, while a class 31 working Birmingham to Norwich services would be ticking over waiting time, with a 47 or a peak in the sidings.
Yeah I did get up a lot earlier that I normally do, but I do get up early once a week, but not so much when we have the dark morning unless I'm catch a train. Thanks for watching my video at your local station.
Marvelous video! Hope you enjoyed catching these and that you are having a great day. Keep striving with your spectacular work! Your content never fails to bring joy, fun and entertainment! Keep aiming for the stars and continue having patience, perseverance, optimism and enthusiasm and that will guide you to your awaiting dreams/goals to come true! 👍😀
great video Mike looked like a glitch with the driver changeover perhaps not learned the route and yes plenty of clag when it pulled away due to ticking over for an hour and a quarter i e cylinders full of diesel , same as a car thats been ticking over a while put you toe down give it some revs and you get lotts of black smoke not very Green im afraid but hay ho they got the job done thanks for sharing Mike and getting up so early A T B Syd 😊
gt comments my dad's name was Sidney r. i. p. brought us travelling stays with a person for life la vita e Bella super to watch tv can b Boring sick of news n soccer Mike ur doing us all a favor!!
Absolutely brilliant shots Mike, you got up early then. 70002 wasn't doing good there and caused a bit of a situation. very claggy after hours messing with different drivers. Just trying to upload a stupidly long video of trains at Doncaster here. You had some really nice captures through there at a rate of knots. Stay safe
Mike I'm pleased I have seen this now after you described it to me. Seems like a train service Controllers nightmare. I feel for Freightliner here because I know the feeling of a train stuck on the mainline with no forward driver. Nice to catch the drama though. ATB. Ben
Cheers Ben for getting round to watching it, since we last meet up I've had a comment from I believe a freightliner driver telling me the what happen that morning.
Nice job Mike, belive the rostered driver didn't sign Class 70's, Rostering Error, believe another driver had to come from Lawey Street in a Taxi and then have a lift back with the driver who didn't sign the traction, hope your keeping well mate.
Thanks for the info Nathanael, I tried to see if there was two in the cab of 70004, but nobody is perfect so you will get problems with rostering I suppose. Thanks again Mike.
Good video, ( is 70002 a pommy General Electric ) ? the radiator grill & trucks look like our NR class in OZ the other one that went through after, I'm sure is a pommy EMD ( general Motors ) I got a model of that one when I was in the Manchester back in 96. Cheers from Australia.
@@antman09ful1 yes freight has made a huge comeback as companies have realised it is extremely cost effective in current climates compared to flight and road. Would love to be a freight driver, I really missed my calling in life 😔
The fiasco with 70 002 reminds me of something I once saw at Brighton. There used to be a service from Basingstoke to Brighton via the coast line, operated by either a 159 or sometimes a pair of 159s. Driver relieved part way, took it to Brighton then changed ends. On one occasion when the driver did that it had a 170 on the back and he didn't sign them......😂
Yes it does happen, which it shouldn't be that is life as we are no perfect sometimes with our jobs. The driver has been in touch with me and explained the reason why he couldn't take the train forward. Not drove a class 70 for over a year so he would need a refresher on them, them are the rules. Thanks for the interest on my video.
@@antman09ful1 Thanks for the explanation. I was a driver myself until two years ago - drove 150s, 153s, 319s, 321s and 350s based out of Bletchley. I remember celebrating when I made it to 6 months without driving a 319 so I was 'out of competence' on the ruddy things. Great day !
Great video as always Mike. My guess is the original driver didn't sign class 70's, all very embarrising for the duty rosterer. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
@@antman09ful1 Highly likely this is the reason why. I have had it happen to me waiting for the Matlock to arrive and a class 70 turned up....No use to me.....
@@antman09ful1 Rostering errors (stock or crew) do occur though and stuff like this happens. The relief driver's diagram may also have incorrectly stated a class 66 on that train (does happen also).
I don't understand the comments from Ian Litchfield and Paul Cresswell about the Class 70s being "ugly". FFS, they were built to haul trains, not look PRETTY!! And having worked on some parallel sided diesel locos (though not the 70s), I'd sooner have a layout like the 'Bones', making it far easier to check behind you, especially when the train is on a curve. Handsome is as handsome DOES.
Looks to my the relief driver didn't sign class 70 traction. May have been a loco swap last minute and he was expecting a 66 as per his diagram. Looks like the original driver got back on to work it on to a more suitable place for onward relief. Just my guess.
Don't blame urself Mike You will be train driver n d next life no hanging around then mate?! Brian love name Nuneaton sometimes I don't eat sick of shopping n cooking oh heard , looks like watn for another driver from Lawley st, I'm doing well with just an android fon!
Oops - I bet it gives the signallers something to do apart from just make sure everything goes smoothly... I guess this is the time the signallers earn their money...
oh, nobody seems to know who's taking d train forward, Funny Mike maybe d new prime minister? bring bk Boris actually brian( n Russian dare i say) is Brian
hi Mike You should be getting lots of subscribers n views oh i had gt day its amazing how u film on these not easy conditions if i was P. M. you'd be minister for railways cheers
@@antman09ful1 we have had such a lot of new drivers in the last couple of years, and the priority is getting them trained up and out there. The basic loco is the 66 so after they pass out they do conversions on the 90s and 70s but while they are waiting they are out driving. I can imagine that from time to time a train will arrive somewhere and this will happen. I personally haven't been on a 70 for a couple of years, as they don't do a huge amount of intermodal work these days
hi Mike Mich'ael in Irish hi tesco slow down Google tells me ye're prices r gon up n England oh Ireland next thought i saw l.Truss waiting for getaway train ! My humour gt nt viewing oh Mike's voice no hear what u say Love Utube at nt just Brian
What a poor performance from these drivers and signallers. It's time all trains are driverless. The technology is there (as has been in decades on the DLR)! Stop striking and let us get to our hospital appointment ffs! Having said that, I love freight trains, but please scrap the drivers to make the railways safer, more affordable and computers will not go on strike and fuck ppl up who are struggling to make ends meet and can't get to work. You do an awesome job ppl, but it's just not good enough!
Making railways more affordable - automation and full electrification would cost millions and take years and where exactly in the world is a fully automated mixed traffic high speed mainline railway? How long does your PC last at home before it needs binning and replacing? Even the Swiss still have drivers. Metros are one thing, heavy rail is a different thing altogether. Unless the UK government change the way railways are funded and run nothing will change. Antman, I Enjoyed the video, thanks for filming it
It's got sod all to do with strikes, see my earlier comment about a traction knowledge cock up. The rules have to be followed and that's it I'm afraid.
Nice video, thanks for sharing it. The driver on the platform waiting to relieve the 'liner was me, my Heavyhall job that morning was cancelled so I was 'nicked' by Intermodal to cover one of their Crewe diagrams, unfortunately I was not told that 4M95 had a 70 on it and since I've not driven one for well over a year I couldn't take it forward (I'm still waiting for a refresher on them!). After a few phone calls were made the Eastleigh guy I relieved worked his booked job back south and a Lawley Street man came out to work 4M95 forward to Crewe. Rules are rules, and if I'd taken it forward myself and had any kind of incident I'd be looking forward to receiving a P45 in the post!
Thank you very much Nigel for your comment on that morning, I was told by a freightliner guy what had happened but not so much info as you, that a driver had to come from Lawley Street in a taxi, but cheers for your in-depth story of that morning which I very much appreciate. ATB Mike.
Nuneaton is certainly a busy place Mike, so many freights always passing through. Magnificent shots and captures there! Glad you caught these! Excellent detailing and camera work! A perfect example of why I recommend your excellent channel! Nice intermodal trains and 70s! That mess up with 002 was interesting! The perfect vid! Great stuff! Top class! No faults at all! Well done! Great work! Highly enjoyable stuff! A winner! Nice car train and sleeper too! Nice clag from 002, interesting track machines in the back! Very nice indeed! Looooooooooooooooved it! Really enjoyed, thanks for sharing! Take care, have an awesome day and all the best! Jamie
One day we might find out the reason why the train was there so long. Mike.
Great video Mike. Nice early start, I'm not good at that lol. Nice bonus and mystery? with 70002. And 2 70's on containers!!! Only seem to see them on the rubbish in Cheshire.
The only problem and I'm not complaining Phil is I keep seeing the same class 70s, but yes my two hour visit to Nuneaton was interesting I think. Cheers Mike.
Great collection Mike :) Nice morning shots.
Yes two hour and back home for Breakfast Simon.
Great filming as usual Mike.Very enjoyable to watch. These TOC's expect drivers to work their rest days as they don't employ nearly enough so they are getting fed up with it. That may have had something to do with 700002.
Thank you Rodney for your interest, hopefully one day we might get to know the reason it took so long to get sorted.
Great captures Mike. I guess the train crew supervisor's job these days isn't quite as difficult as there isn't the variety of freight locos. Back in the day it could be with so many classes of loco. Super video, well done. 🤓
Very true that Tony, maybe one day we will get to know what the reason was, cheers and ATB Mike.
Evening Mike from my can in Morpeth 😊 Fantastic video as always 👍🏻 See Culina didn’t take long to rebrand some of its swap bodies 😂 Russell have started a new iport Doncaster to Mossend. Great seeing new freight on the rails 🤩
Well Morpeth is a bit different for you Stevie, sorry for late reply as the WCML is shut from Rugby to Stafford so everything is comimg along my local line so I'm out a lot more this week with all the freight diverts. great to see more freight services happening with that Doncaster one. ATB Mike.
Great video Mike, interesting to watch the early morning action
It was a interesting morning and you was just going to bed.
Lovely video Mike!! Lovely variety in traffic there lots of different locos and cargo!!
I was happy with what I filmed Jacob, all WCML freight is going along my local line nest week so I will be out as much as I can.
ATB Mike.
Excellent video as always Mike, looks like 70002 caused chaos, it was very clagy when it depated too👍
Yes it was but they always do them 70s when powering ENC. Cheers Mike.
Always enjoy seeing the beds coming through Nuneaton. My favourite time there is early evening at this time of the year when there is a hint of fog in the air. Happy memories of A/C electrics hurtling through, while a class 31 working Birmingham to Norwich services would be ticking over waiting time, with a 47 or a peak in the sidings.
Oh yes I will have to agree with you super days indeed, but what happened that morning made it a interesting time for me. ATB Mike.
Great video 😀🎉🎉 loved the start up and the clag when 70002 eventually got going towards Manchester 😀🎉🎉👀
Yes a nice bit of clag which you do seam to get from class 70s, and it was only 10 late into Trafford Park ENC. Cheers Mike.
@@antman09ful1 Great footage as always.
Yes the 70s do clag a fair bit! Saw one myself recently.
czcams.com/video/wF05q5gAlZk/video.html
You must have woke up early. Thanks for filming at my regular spotting station, I go there most days.
Yeah I did get up a lot earlier that I normally do, but I do get up early once a week, but not so much when we have the dark morning unless I'm catch a train.
Thanks for watching my video at your local station.
Amazing footage at nuneaton Especially the car train! I must go down sometime!
Yes its a very good place to see freight trains but not one of my favourite places for filming them.
Thank you for checking out this video.
Great video Mike that is one good thing about our local area is that we do get a fair few class 70s
Yes we are at the moment Owain pity we don't get the one's which are stuck up in Leeds. Hope you are keeping well, spoke to your mate Ron this week.
Thank you Mike. Great video again. and Enjoyed. Like Nuneaton No running up and Stairs. Like at Tamworth. Thanks again. Take care.
Thanks John, Tamworth is good but no trains through Nuneaton next week.
70,s always good for a bit of Clag, excellent filming Mike.
They sure are Alan, thanks for checking my video out. Mike.
Another fine mess😂😂 but a good video , thanks Sir 👍👍🤞🤞
Well said, I have been informed the driver who was sent to take over hadn't passed for driving class 70, a office mix up.
Marvelous video! Hope you enjoyed catching these and that you are having a great day. Keep striving with your spectacular work! Your content never fails to bring joy, fun and entertainment! Keep aiming for the stars and continue having patience, perseverance, optimism and enthusiasm and that will guide you to your awaiting dreams/goals to come true! 👍😀
thumbs up for ur complimentary comments big fan of Mike's in Ireland
Thank you very much Andrew for your kind comment, I just try and make my videos interesting if I can at places I visit. Regards Mike.
@@hiworldstephensonultranate290 Thanks :)
@@antman09ful1 Anytime and thanks Mike! Glad to hear! Regards, Andrew :)
great video Mike looked like a glitch with the driver changeover perhaps not learned the route and yes plenty of clag when it pulled away due to ticking over for an hour and a quarter i e cylinders full of diesel , same as a car thats been ticking over a while put you toe down give it some revs and you get lotts of black smoke not very Green im afraid but hay ho they got the job done thanks for sharing Mike and getting up so early A T B Syd 😊
gt comments my dad's name was Sidney r. i. p. brought us travelling stays with a person for life la vita e Bella super to watch tv can b Boring sick of news n soccer Mike ur doing us all a favor!!
Yes I was expecting a fair bit of clag Syd, I don't get why they send a driver to Nuneaton to take over a train who wasn't the right guy for the job.
A fine smoke display on starting off 💪
Oh yes.
Absolutely brilliant shots Mike, you got up early then. 70002 wasn't doing good there and caused a bit of a situation. very claggy after hours messing with different drivers. Just trying to upload a stupidly long video of trains at Doncaster here. You had some really nice captures through there at a rate of knots. Stay safe
yeah big time
Thanks Edward for watching my video, one day we might find out the reason.
Will watch you long video from Doncaster when i have time. ATB Mike.
Great video ❤️
Thank you very much for watching my video Stephen.
Great Video Mike :)
Cheers Blake, would be interesting to know what the problem was. Mike.
Another good'un Mike. Thought they would of known in advance who was taking over for the 70.
Well you would wouldn't you David, but nothing surprises me these day. But we might find out in the next few days. Cheers Mike.
Nice video 👍👍👍👍😎
Thank you Matthew👍
Mike I'm pleased I have seen this now after you described it to me.
Seems like a train service Controllers nightmare. I feel for Freightliner here because I know the feeling of a train stuck on the mainline with no forward driver. Nice to catch the drama though. ATB. Ben
Cheers Ben for getting round to watching it, since we last meet up I've had a comment from I believe a freightliner driver telling me the what happen that morning.
That's a lot of brown smoke coming out of 70002 when it eventually left. I know they produce some fumes but should they be producing that much?
It was like that because the loco was stationary for so long Joshua, thanks for watching. Mike.
Nice job Mike, belive the rostered driver didn't sign Class 70's, Rostering Error, believe another driver had to come from Lawey Street in a Taxi and then have a lift back with the driver who didn't sign the traction, hope your keeping well mate.
Thanks for the info Nathanael, I tried to see if there was two in the cab of 70004, but nobody is perfect so you will get problems with rostering I suppose. Thanks again Mike.
Good video, ( is 70002 a pommy General Electric ) ? the radiator grill & trucks look like our NR class in OZ the other one that went through after, I'm sure is a pommy EMD ( general Motors ) I got a model of that one when I was in the Manchester back in 96.
Cheers from Australia.
Thank you for watching from the other side of the world, yes you are right about the locos.
Great Vid. but where do you find the information where the journeys start and finish anyway?
Thanks. . . . Danny
Hi, you can get apps which tells you now, some with more information you have to pay for.
Thanks for watching Danny.
I did not realize so much freight was still carried on Britain's network. An encouraging sight.
I think at the moment there is more freight on the rails John. Cheers for watching, Mike.
@@antman09ful1 yes freight has made a huge comeback as companies have realised it is extremely cost effective in current climates compared to flight and road. Would love to be a freight driver, I really missed my calling in life 😔
The fiasco with 70 002 reminds me of something I once saw at Brighton. There used to be a service from Basingstoke to Brighton via the coast line, operated by either a 159 or sometimes a pair of 159s. Driver relieved part way, took it to Brighton then changed ends. On one occasion when the driver did that it had a 170 on the back and he didn't sign them......😂
Yes it does happen, which it shouldn't be that is life as we are no perfect sometimes with our jobs.
The driver has been in touch with me and explained the reason why he couldn't take the train forward.
Not drove a class 70 for over a year so he would need a refresher on them, them are the rules.
Thanks for the interest on my video.
@@antman09ful1 Thanks for the explanation. I was a driver myself until two years ago - drove 150s, 153s, 319s, 321s and 350s based out of Bletchley. I remember celebrating when I made it to 6 months without driving a 319 so I was 'out of competence' on the ruddy things. Great day !
Oh right, cheers for the reply.
Great video as always Mike. My guess is the original driver didn't sign class 70's, all very embarrising for the duty rosterer. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
Well it looked that way didn't Colin, maybe someone will tell us one day. thanks Mike.
@@antman09ful1 Highly likely this is the reason why. I have had it happen to me waiting for the Matlock to arrive and a class 70 turned up....No use to me.....
relief driver didn't sign the traction
Well possible but a class 70 is the loco for that diagram.
@@antman09ful1 Rostering errors (stock or crew) do occur though and stuff like this happens. The relief driver's diagram may also have incorrectly stated a class 66 on that train (does happen also).
Just new and subbed
Thank you very much for your interest in my videos.
A busy early morning at Nuneaton. Looks like the relief driver was a no show.
I will tell you the full story on Saturday.
Nice early morning at Nuneaton
Yes it was a interesting one.
70002-southampton driver to Nuneaton/crewe or Lawley st driver forward?
You are amazing Mark.
@@antman09ful1 only a guess .
Yeah, probably a glitch with driver rostering. Looks like 70004 stopped to drop off the driver to take it on
Well I think that too.
That's correct.
Love a bit of chaos.
Well it makes the video a bit more interesting Keith. Cheers Mike.
Is Station open all night?
No its not.
What time did you start Mike?
Got off the train at 06.24 and got on the train home at 08.42.
I wonder if the driver due to take over didn't sign for jordans and they had to get another one who did
You are right Edwin, I was told the driver hadnt signed to drive class 70s. Thanks for your interest in watching this video.
nice
Thanks for having a look.
Cant someone give the class 70 a make over. They look like Darth Vader on a bad day
Its them people in America Michael, they designed the loco.
That whole style of body looks foreign to me. I didn't mourn the 58s either.
@@johno4521 give us proper English (british) looking engines not foreign rubbish with no character
I don't understand the comments from Ian Litchfield and Paul Cresswell about the Class 70s being "ugly". FFS, they were built to haul trains, not look PRETTY!! And having worked on some parallel sided diesel locos (though not the 70s), I'd sooner have a layout like the 'Bones', making it far easier to check behind you, especially when the train is on a curve.
Handsome is as handsome DOES.
I 'm with you Jack.
Looks like a crew issue…possibly the driver didn’t know the route??
I just don't know Andy, but thanks for the comment.
Some things never change, lol 🤣🤣🤣
Well they needed a change of driver there Robert.
@@antman09ful1 Yes, understood that, but no driver waiting was what I meant, lol 🤣👍
Great video though.
Thanks very much.
At least it didn't catch fire... 😉
Ok.
I wonder if Freightliner copped a penalty for keeping the route blocked for over an hour?
Probably not Guy, thank you for your interest.
Looks to my the relief driver didn't sign class 70 traction. May have been a loco swap last minute and he was expecting a 66 as per his diagram.
Looks like the original driver got back on to work it on to a more suitable place for onward relief.
Just my guess.
It is a class 70 diagram, so maybe one day we will find out what the problem was.
Don't blame urself Mike You will be train driver n d next life no hanging around then mate?! Brian love name Nuneaton sometimes I don't eat sick of shopping n cooking oh heard , looks like watn for another driver from Lawley st, I'm doing well with just an android fon!
OK Brian thank you for taking a look at this video. Mike.
Oops - I bet it gives the signallers something to do apart from just make sure everything goes smoothly... I guess this is the time the signallers earn their money...
Yes you could be right Martin, thanks for checking out my video.
oh, nobody seems to know who's taking d train forward, Funny Mike maybe d new prime minister? bring bk Boris actually brian( n Russian dare i say) is Brian
That is right Brian.
hi tks for highlighting my comments
hi Mike You should be getting lots of subscribers n views oh i had gt day its amazing how u film on these not easy conditions if i was P. M. you'd be minister for railways cheers
That Freight liner is one ugly looking loco 🤣😭
Yes it is Ian but they do sound great.
Relief driver not learned 70s yet
Possible.
@@antman09ful1 we have had such a lot of new drivers in the last couple of years, and the priority is getting them trained up and out there. The basic loco is the 66 so after they pass out they do conversions on the 90s and 70s but while they are waiting they are out driving. I can imagine that from time to time a train will arrive somewhere and this will happen. I personally haven't been on a 70 for a couple of years, as they don't do a huge amount of intermodal work these days
How different can it be!!! (joking!)
Nuneaton is King
Really ?
@@antman09ful1 Little known fact *taps nose*
hi Mike Mich'ael in Irish hi tesco slow down Google tells me ye're prices r gon up n England oh Ireland next thought i saw l.Truss waiting for getaway train ! My humour gt nt viewing oh Mike's voice no hear what u say Love Utube at nt just Brian
O
OK.
What a poor performance from these drivers and signallers.
It's time all trains are driverless. The technology is there (as has been in decades on the DLR)! Stop striking and let us get to our hospital appointment ffs!
Having said that, I love freight trains, but please scrap the drivers to make the railways safer, more affordable and computers will not go on strike and fuck ppl up who are struggling to make ends meet and can't get to work. You do an awesome job ppl, but it's just not good enough!
Making railways more affordable - automation and full electrification would cost millions and take years and where exactly in the world is a fully automated mixed traffic high speed mainline railway? How long does your PC last at home before it needs binning and replacing? Even the Swiss still have drivers. Metros are one thing, heavy rail is a different thing altogether. Unless the UK government change the way railways are funded and run nothing will change. Antman, I Enjoyed the video, thanks for filming it
Thank you sw206 for your comment and pleased you enjoying this video. Cheers Mike.
@Paul Radon - what the hell are you on about, blaming the signallers, you IDIOT? Signallers aren't responsible for rostering train crews!!
It's got sod all to do with strikes, see my earlier comment about a traction knowledge cock up. The rules have to be followed and that's it I'm afraid.