NEW Mana Points and Custom Spell Enhancement System in DC20
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- How Spellcasting, Mana Points, and Spell Enhancements work in DC20 ⏬More Below⏬
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0:00 Intro
3:33 Spell Slots Suck
5:38 Mana Points
8:58 Spell Enhancements
15:21 Prepared Spellcasting Rant
18:16 Closing
#DC20 - Hry
Dc20 is everything I did in my homebrew system but 100x better and I love it.
Wow! Thank you for that!!
@TheDungeonCoach , this has been a great video. I love these ideas! I'm also having fun, because watching you talk at 1.5x speed is super entertaining. It amps up the passion so much.
I've been saying the exact same thing since I found out what it was!! Especially the roll to cast. These ideas are great!
The more I learn about DC20, the more I am in love.
That really does mean a lot to me! Thank you!
I actually like to enforce Spellcasting Focuses. In my D&D5e game, Spellcasters need their Focus on hand to Cast Spells at all. It gives it a more fair feeling when both the Fighter and Wizard could get Disarmed of their Weapon/Focus, and makes them want to find a Magic Weapons/Focuses or gain a Feature that can teleport to their hands or make them immune to Disarm.
I believe the same thing. But with an exception for cantrips. Since they have learned them so well that they know them at all times and don't cost mana to cast.
Also Sorcerers can cast without a focus at the cost of a sorcery point per level.
@q267scott I feel that Cantrips should also require a Focus, otherwise it feels weird that they can't cast Fireball, but can cast the equivalent of a shotgun blast (Fire Bolt). I do make Sorcerers count as their own Focus for free, just like a Monk is always armed, a Sorcerer is always with its Focus.
@@gtasaleon the way I think about is like this, a spell that has become second nature to you that you could just flick it out like a bugger because it's so nothing to you. That's a cantrip, the most basic of basic, it's weak it's easy, it's second nature to you to cast.
I'm pretty strict about making sure I have a focus in hand. But then I'm playing an artificer and I can use a wand, one of my four sets of tools (one of which is stored in my gloves), my satchel, my cloak, and one custom focus so in practical terms I can't really be disarmed.
My best spell caster goes to great lengths not to allow anyone within disarming range and primarily uses eldritch blast to accomplish this. You understand, she doesn’t need MORE advantages than she already has.
I thumbed up immediately for "spell slots suck"
Same
Same
Same
To be fair, spell slots are an old relic from the days of Vancian spellcasting. The idea was that you store up the magic in your mind when you study a spell, and then casting the spell causes it to leave your mind. To represent this, you used to have to determine which spell was being used with which spell slot at the start of each day. It also seems appropriate for Clerics that pray for specific miracles at the beginning of the day, as well as inventor classes that have to create the ammo for each spell. This is also the explanation for the weird spell prep idea they reintroduced at the beginning of OneDND. They were trying to bring back Vancian casting as a way of balancing casters and martials... but then everyone pitched a fit. That was part of what used to nerf casters: they had to prepare the exact number of uses for each spell at the start of the day, and once you ran out you were done using that spell.
This is what used to make the sorcerer special. They had fewer spells known, but they could cast them using any available slot. It played into their theme of being magical mutants that did a few things very well. Then they gave the sorcerers casting system to everyone in 5e.
100 %, been using "Spell Points" since 3.0 Unearthed Arcana, then created a Mana Point system for my homebrew game and never looked back, that was 2002. **** Spell Slots and "Vancian" Magic entirely
I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that thought about prepared spells
I actually think that Foci and spell components can serve a purpose game design wise. They keep the casters hands occupied and give a good explanation why they cant use shields or weapons. And of course you can always make exceptions when a specific caster needs to be able to use shields (cleric paints their holy symbol etc). Having a staff or wand or spell book is definitely part of the fantasy of being a spell caster.
I agree.
I also think it can help balance the game. If the party goes to prison it can feel arbitrary to just have a mage cast an anti magic spell to keep the casters in check. It's far more interesting to take their weapons away, which are their wand or staff.
I think that it depends on the type of magic and the experience level of the user. A focus for Clerics and Warlocks to connect with their source of magic is a must. Occasionally needing sacrifices or incense to gain "extra" benefits. Artificers and alchemists are all about harnessing materials as conduits or sources of magic power. Druids often utilize natural components for a deeper connection to primeval forces. I go back and forth with sorcerers. I think that a focus would be something that beginners use like a mandala, but then internalize it. Wizards approach magic through intellect and would use anything that follows a recipe.
Also, when the party gets captured, and the Fighter is a fraction of their normal Self without their Armor/Weapons.... But ALL the casters are at Full Power...??
There should be *some* penalty to most classes for getting caught unprepared [Monks bypassing this is a unique Features that "proves the negative"].
@@peterterry7918 I think sorcerers, clerics, and warlocks are the obvious ones not in need of a focus. If a god gives you magic powers why should you need a symbol to channel that? Yes that can be explained away and in a lot of the stories that the game pulls do have the cleric like figures using a symbol, but many don't. For example Moses uses a staff for every miraculous thing he does. On the other hand Jesus doesn't (look at the cleric spell list and tell me its not inspired by Jesus).
Sorcerers I think makes sense since the whole idea with them is that they are brimming with to much magic. Wizards and artificers are messing with cosmic forces so needing the right tool for the job sounds good to me.
Druids and rangers (if rangers cast spells) should just use magic components. Though a druid could use a staff.
My brother and I are working on a system of our own and have set it so that all spell casting requires a focus because this way just like the fighter can lose his sword a mage can lose his wand. It balances that edge that mages have on non mages.
All Martial in dc20 are fine without weapons. Because all Martial class are balanced that they are fine when they use fist. There Damage are 2 Damage lower in average per hit if they losse ther weaposn. And if you use ligth armor your PD Physical Defense sink 1 point at lv 1-4 and 2 points above.
Only Charakter how has bad dex and counts for havy armor snd str. have there PD by a concernig amount.
But all caster can use ligth wepons or havy wepons at lv two if they invest a feat. So the PD decrease is the same for Casters.
It's funny how Tormenta 20 has been doing this system since 2020... good thing more ppl is doing it.
Well, I'm Brazilian and I have to say, our Tormenta 20 used a system pretty much similar to this one with mana points. And my playthrough with it was so much more liberating than the spell slot crap.
I really recommend adapting it to your game, it is at least simpler and refreshing.
Mano, eu sempre quis jogar Tormenta, ou a versão que fizeram pro Ghanor do Jovem Nerd, só que nenhum dos meus amigos quer experimentar. 😢
BR invadindo DC20 =D
eu tava pesquisando ontem sobre o sistema de magia do dc20 kkkk
único problema do sistema de mana de tormenta é que a recuperação de mana é MUITO lenta
É aqui que os BR se reúnem pra fazer mesa de T20?
Prepared spells for wizards is a game balance mechanic because they have no limit on the number of spells they can learn. As for spell focuses, they're not required - except possibly holy symbols for clerics. A spell focus (or component pouch) can replace the material component for a spell in the component has no cost.
A for mana vs. spell slots, I've long used the spell point system in the DMG.
Came here to say this. There's already a mana system for D&D, and I've always preferred using that one. The only problem with it is that Warlocks are excluded.
@@Strider_ITwarlocks are so problematic to balance. Give them normal spellslots/spellpoints, and they are op with invocations and stuff. Don't give them anything and they are dependant on short rests and good in small easy fights (what's the point of being good in easy combat anyway?). Grant them even 1 more warlock spellslot and they will blast everything with upcasted fireball. I like their theme and non combat gameplay, but i hate spamming eldritch blast forever because doing anything with their spellslots breaks the game.
DC20 spell system ❤ Great video. Thx Coach. And new icon looks amazing. 😉
There's so many similarities here with Savage Worlds' magic system.
I was going to say the same thing about Savage Worlds. Very much the same thing.
Honestly evolving magic like this feels way better than what I did for my system
This makes me incredibly excited by the prospect of artificers that can build items that have either spell toggles (scrolls, arcane gun, etc) and permanently on spells (portal arch, eternal fire, etc)
Only 90 second in, but this sounds nearly identical to the magitech system in the rules I made for my kids' TTRPG adventures.
Sounds like a great system!
Thank you Coach! This is literally one of my biggest annoyances with D&D
The more i listen your idea the more i love your dc20 world.
All of this sounds really freaking cool. Cannot wait for the Kickstarter.
I love what you're doing with DC20 , and while I personally prefer Spell Points (SP) in my own system, I think there is a place for Spell Slots. Whenever I've considered adding an element to a system I think about what level of complexity it may bring, or the type of book keeping (if necessary).
Spell Slots in my opinion are much simpler because it's a checklist you're looking over rather than having to track a running total. SP is something that allows you to cast more spells, but you'll have to keep track of if you subtracted from your maximum, and with a spend limit you have to make sure you haven't spent too much either. These things could be simple on their own, but depending on what is around it, it could be tedious to keep track of. In DC20 I don't think this is an issue.
For those more experienced in the system, I think that it's fine to bring in an SP system but I think slots are more new-player friendly. In systems like DnD and Pathfinder, since they revolve around mainly tracking uses (the running total you do track obv being your HP) Spell Slots fall in line with that design convention, and while you can use alternatives in the system like SP, the spells aren't designed with that in mind. Now, what I'm saying is that Spell Slots are likely the better choice in systems like Pathfinder or DnD, considering the other book keeping you have to do.
I also think some of the "Spell slots make no sense" may also have to do with how the fiction defines what spell slots are, but that part is really just conjecture on my end.
I think it's fine in DC20, because the system is pretty straightforward (to me at least), I'm usually someone trying to mind tedium with the systems I want to introduce to people, and DC20 has been a system I've been wanting to introduce people to, just haven't had the chance to yet.
I just wanted to put some thoughts on the table that pushes back (in good faith of course) against the notion that Spell Points are universally better than Spell Slots, I think that they both have their merits and disadvantages, and it ultimately comes down to what kind of game feel you're going for.
I personally preferred having spell focuses around. it's basically the sword of wizards and feels a bit off having them do spells without it. I would definitely make casting with no spell focus a high level ability showing that your knowledge of spells is so intricate that you don't need anything to assist you
Or some spells require material components. Because that's what spellcasting is for
For those curious, Vancian magic is derived from the magic of Jack Vance's novels. In Jack's fiction, and also in Gygax's fiction, spells are effectively magic ideas a wizard has collected in his or her mind that when released (cast) are lost. Gygax felt worked well for the purposes of dungeon crawling, both promoting preparation and limiting the utility of the wizard. We haven't had real Vancian since 3rd edition however, since 4th didn't have it at all and 5th separated the concepts of "prepared" and "slots", where originally it was "prepared in slot" which can still be found in Pathfinder (1e/2e).
I think Vancian still teaches us an important lesson: magic must be limited. Especially when trying to keep martials feeling useful without having to resort to just making them magical too.
Even so, in both third and pathfinder there are spontaneous spellcasters, who do not use that system.
I hear you. One my favorite 5e characters is a Fathomless Warlock, and one of his spells is the thematically appropriate 3rd level spell, Hunger of Hadar. Unfortunately, the spell has no upcast option, so if I want to cast it, I have to use a spell slot that far exceeds the level of the spell, for no additional benefit.
I don't have idea why they keep such a cool spell from being upcasted. Especially that it is exclusive for class that can only upcast their spells
4:49, YUP. That's exactly what one of my players brought up a while back. I told him it was for balancing and mechanic purposes, but he didn't like how didn't make sense despite that. I had to figure out a lore reason why. Eventually we found out D&D does have an alternative rule for it in the form of spell points in the DMG.
We've been working on a spell points system. This approach has been around since (from my experience) about 1982. That's when I started. Homebrew campaigns for yrs have been implementing spell points.
We've been working on subdivisions of spell points for arcane & divine Dungeon Coach. Mages & Priests draw upon spell power in different ways but in our lore it comes from the same source. It's simple and easy to learn. Only 1 page of rules.
This is a cool idea, although Druids for example should have access to Dominate Beast (or be better at it), but maybe not have access (or as easily) to Dominate People.
I suppose they could get something like a 1 mana reduction on casting Dominate to target beasts, although that doesn't handle whether they should have access (or at what cost) to non-beast uses of it.
We are so synced up, you dont even know! Yes yes yes :)
IMO, it should just be 'dominate', and the amount of mana you need to spend is dependent on the level of the enemy, not what kind of creature it is.
I'm really quite a fan of spell foci being a major component of the game, though I did dislike their absolute necessity with no way to cast without them. Provided a balance of being able to limit a spellcaster by disarming them, similar to disarming a martial.
I understand eliminating the necessity of them, but perhaps it could still be an optional rule?
Perhaps as well there could be some benefit to casting with them? Such as a free spell enhancement or similar.
I don’t mind wands/staffs/etcetera not being required for spell casting. My only suggestion to add is to make sure that wielding such items is compatible with somatic component requirements.
This actually makes magic feel fluid as a system. I love it.
Also, yeah, screw spell slots!
Also love the idea of being able to customize spells. With this system you could basically do anything! Like, I could cast an Acid Fireball with 2 Mana! That's really cool and great for thematic play.
An interesting way of visualizing spell slots came to me from a Michael G. Manning book series called the Art of the Adept. The wizard would prepare a spell by assembling the arcane diagram and then store it inside their own body. When cast, you expended the energy. A new or weak wizard could only prepare and "hold" one or two spells...this is basically slots. I applied that to my D&D immediately. Now the book magic system also had a mana concept as well. You could always cast any spell you knew but it may take 10 minutes. So prepared spells were critical for speed. After a long time and many thousands of casting, a wizard could eventually learn to reflex cast a spell...basically instant like a prepared spell. Cool magic system.
OMG!!!! I love this! I've been working on how magic works in my world and I love how you've approached it. It's more intuitive and "real" in my opinion. Definitely gave me some ideas. I've been watching BwB for a hot minute but have only found your channel. This is the second video I've watched. The first one was about combat. Subscriber most definitely
I like the scaling aspect of spells. It allows for having other elemental/etc. affinities instead of just fire or lightning. I've got a character who I want to have a wind theme, but there aren't many attack spells with wind. So with this, I could see a base cast of a blast of wind (maybe just shoving instead of damage), and adding damage with more mana. Maybe even changing from a bludgeoning punch of wind to a slicing wind with added mana.
As for the spell slot rant, I agree with the whole explaining why you're out of slots issue, but I still enjoy coming up with fitting explanations for it. My favorite is for my Artificer. He doesn't actually "cast" spells, since the common flavor is they replicate spell effects with gadgets. So when he's out of slots, that's just because a given gadget had a few cogs or springs get loose or break, which he would fix the next morning as he "prepares" the spell. If a given gadget was prepared, but not used that day, then me being out of slots would be that gadget had a piece bend out of place while sitting in his bag. So it's also tapped out for the day, until I can fix it. It gives his gadgets more of a flimsy vibe which fits his spur of the moment building style.
As for prepared spells, some gadgets need a piece from another gadget, so those aren't in use today, or they need an arcane jolt to juice up their "battery" and I didn't have time to charge it that morning.
I love the idea. It sounds amazing. No, better: It sounds like something I'm looking for a loooong time.
Really love it. This will work very well with the combination casting. Totally agree about the merging speel pike dominate X or hold X.
Dude you just described Savage Worlds Magic System... Drop 5e
There was a system that came out in the 90's called Earthdawn. They used something similar to spell slots. If I remember correctly they were spell matrix. The cannon reason was if you cast from raw magic evil creatures from beyond would find you and eat your pitiful little charechter. Basically you prepared in a safe way and then held in stasis and released it when needed. You could also attack a charechters stored spells from the astral plane
This is vaguely reminiscent to kids on brooms making spells. I love the customization to magic.
I love how the magic system with Mana points and condense spells sounds, tho I gotta say spell components can be a cool way to differentiate Wizards and Warlocks from Bards and Artificers, or Clerics and Paladins, maybe there is a case for Druids but specially Sorcerers as a class or subclass to bypass those restrictions. Its worth considering as a thematic and mechanical tool, but maybe not on every spell xd
ooooo, I love this take on spellcasting! much more flexible and fun then Spell slots of DnD. it does remind me a bit of how the 5e unearthed arcana class Mystic handled it sort of casting abilities
At least this video is more than " What if spell points?" as if it isn't LISTED IT THE DAMN DMG!
The topic alone made me subscribe. I love magic systems
True, color spray is basically “offensive light cantrip”
7:32 oooo just had the thought of how cool it would be for a player to sacrafice some of their own physical strength (like spell burn in Dungeon Crawl Classic) to cast a spell higher than they would typically be able to cast. You might have covered this idea already but the image that came to mind was cool and I wanted to share xD
14:59 oh yeh here we go :D
You kidding me!? I'm only like 2 minutes in and a lot of what you are talking about is a system I have been toying with over the last like 20 years lol. Originally I started it for 3rd edition D&D. I've followed you I think not long after you started your youtube channel and we come up with a lot of the same ideas and seem to be of similar mind on a lot of homebrew ideas
Honestly my FAVORITE comments are when I hear exactly this! It’s wild to be so synced up with someone you’ve never met! I love it!!
@@TheDungeonCoach finished the video, love and agree with it all of course! I just wish my area was more open to playing or trying new games. I'd love to be able to back and play your system but even my own group has a hard enough time getting together and doesn't want to deviate from the norm. Local shops are the same
Awesome! I wish I could play this now lol & I like every aspect about the changes you’ve done, the only thing I would like to see added, is a flushed out how to lead extra spells from spell scrolls for each spell caster class, like each time you use a spell scroll, you make a spell casting ability check to see if you retain that knowledge & each time you cast it without learning it, the next check gets a little easier
Sounds a lot like indestructoboys vagabond, love it
It sounds like a lot of fun for players. It’d be interesting to hear you share player feedback.
new here but your videos are pretty cool man
I also create my own ttrpg and though long about magic because of the same mentioned problems. Mana was also one of my ideas and honestly it might be better from a mechanical point of view. But I instead decided to use an item based system. So I don't have mana but my players have to acquire runes, either buy them or create them.
I got rid of classes all together and everyone can do everything they have learned. My game in general evolves heavily around items in general as a means to encourage players to pick up talents/crafts and have an impact on the Gameworld even if they are not fighting.
Again, this might not be the best way mechanically to create a good game, but it's what I wanted and I now try to make it interesting. Your approach is way closer to regular DND and honestly it addresses most of my concerns with DND so if my system fails I will gladly fall back to Dc20 as it sounds really good. And it's easy. It's so hard to create something logical that is easy. It's not hard to improve Combat from DND in a logical way, but to improve it in a way it doesn't impact the fun, that's way harder, I know this out of experience, and you kind stranger did an amazing job. So far I would even recommend your system over mine in most cases.
This system is great. I think another fun system, would allow spell casters to weave spells from the ground up. It would be slightly more complicated, but adds more flexibility. Of course, the more effects you add, the more mana/spell points it costs to cast.
Let the cool ideas work!😄
This is gunna be so fire
Only 20 seconds in, but YEAH BUDDY!
My table has given up Spell Slots for the Spell Point Variant in the DMG long ago, and explaining it to new players still takes a moment, but is MUCH BETTER than watching their eyes glaze over when we tried to explain the "core Rules"... 😩
I have spellcasting take 2 actions/rounds, the first round is to focus the mana and the second is the cast. This means that spellcasters can be disrupted before the cast. A physical Spell focus (like a wand) means the Spell can be cast with 1 action.
So in 1 action the Wizard focuses a mote of elemental fire into their hand, in the second action they can throw it (20ft like a grenade) at no cost OR they can use mana to cast it 60ft etc
I generally far prefer flexible spell casting systems to ridged ones… and building in the ability to cooperate as a core mechanic is excellent 🥳
How I did it in 5e:
Spells cost two times their level in mana to cast (2 for first level, 4 for second, 6 for third, so on);
Full casters start with 4 Spell points at level 1 and gain 2 points per level;
Half casters start with 2 spell points at level 2 and gain 1 per level (So at level 2 they will have 4);
Third caster start with 1 spell point at level 3 and gain 1 per level (So at level 5 they will have 5 spell points);
Sorcerers have a number of charges equal to half their level rounded down but at least 1. They can use the charges to recover 2 spell points out of combat, and regain charges on a long rest. They also use spell points to use metamagic rather than sorcery points;
There's other ways to spend mana other than spell slots (such as paladin smites or a ranger's mark) so classes with uneven progression won't have leftover, useless spell points in odd levels;
This is one of my favorite things this game brings to the table.. 💙
I’m here because I’m creating my own version as well and very much so like that you attribute it to old school dnd made by Gary. One of my close HS friends has a step dad who played with some of the original 2e makers so Iv only really been accustomed to 2e. I love spell slots when you put the time into them and create a spell book and such. I think it adds even more grit and the wizard will feel one with his spell book if done correctly.
Love the idea and look forward to trying it out! Just an FYI: the link to the 5e conversion takes you to a page with no actual text.
This reminds me a lot of the Spheres of Power system. I like it.
The Nimble 5e alternate rules has a simple Mana system for people to check out as well.
My world has no spells at all. To weave magic into an effect, you have to put it together at the time of casting.
You would take an aspect like fire. Add distance, area or targets, effect like damage, how much damage, which would give you a DC to roll against to weave the magic together.
If you pass, then you are good to go. If you fail, then you find out that all magic is wild magic.
Never can find the edit button on my phone for CZcams.
I have also never liked Vancian magic.
Reminds me of a Brazilian RPG called Tormenta 20! It has a similar system.
Comment posted before finishing video: 5e on release had a clunky but usable variant rule for casting called Spell Points that harken to mana points.
On Spell Focuses... I kinda like them.
I think it's sill that in Harry Potter, (almost?) no one can cast magic without their Wand, but this little bit of Lore and History has an Origin.
It makes sense that it's *easier* to direct your Power and Intent with a Tool.
And it's neat, lore-wise, for different Styles of Casters to have different Tools they typically use.
Yes, it makes sense that Gandalf can still lay down the Hurt without his Staff...
But it ALSO makes sense that such Hurt can be more efficiently/better directed, if he has his accustomed Tool at hand to focus it!
I love EVERYTHING u just said and have been trying to create a system like this for an all Wizard party. But i actually LOVE spell focuses cause I give spell focuses effects. Like if ur spell focus is made out of red dragons tooth u get bonus damage on fire spells and what not.
Spell slots were invented in Jack Vance’s Dying Earth pulp dark fantasy series. A completely different genre than the standard dnd campaign.
Spell Enhancements are similar to an idea I had for an rpg I'm making but the system I had was far too clunky, I love how this sounds so far but the one concern is obviously decision paralysis during combat with min-maxing dmg versus area effect, etc.
Amazing mechanics Coach! How would stacking disadvantage work in CC or healing spells (or do you always roll to “hit”)
Just Yes. To everything you said.....
i like the prepared spells, it feels like magical knowledge is alive and try to be forgotten. thats why a wizard will rememorize there spell, druid will connect with nature to attuned to the world's magic and cleric will ask there god about the divine. this mostly comes from a video i watched about where dnd magic comes from
DC20 is better than DnD 5e and nobody can change my mind about that! If I ever play DnD again, it'll be DC20.
While my table has never used it, this is how I do Mana Points - Slot level * total slots = Mana Points. So, if you have 4 level 1 spell slots, you have 4 mana points. If you have a level 4 and a level 9, you have 13 mana points. It's simple, and works for all casters. So, the breakdown at max level works like this:
Primary Casters get 4 first level slots (4 MP) + 3 second through fifth level slots (42 MP) + 2 sixth and seventh level slots (26 MP) + 1 eighth and ninth level slots (17 MP) = 89 total mana
Secondary Casters get 4 first level slots (4 MP) + 3 second through fourth level slots (27 MP) + 2 fifth level slots (10 MP) = 41 total mana
Tertiary Casters get 4 first level slots (4 MP) + 3 second and third level slots (15 MP) + 1 fourth level slot (4 MP) = 23 total mana
Warlocks get 4 fifth level spell slots (20 MP)
It's that simple. One formula for all charts. It is a direct 1:1 with your spell slots, but is more flexible instead of the weird chart in the DMG.
I like how every spell you mentioned is now a valid choice!
.
.
Except for the friends cantrip, which is still only useful when you make it a "leveled spell", AKA pour mana points into it. I find it hard to believe someone would use the cantrip version of the friends spell, since it has such a major downside.
Other than that, nicely done! Very streamlined version of the spell system from dnd!
I gotta disagree on focuses. If a fighter needs a sword why can't the wizard need a wand?
A while ago I combined the spells Find Steed and Find Greater Steed into one spell. If you cast it with a 2nd or 4th level spellslot, it does the exact same thing as Find Steed or Find Greater Steed, respectively, but then I added a 3rd and 5th-9th level version. At 9th level you can summon a giant ape or a liondrake or a young black dragon to ride into combat. Not sure you would ever waste a 9th level spell slot on that but you could in my games
tbh how I handle spells is that u can learn all of the possible spells but have 8 spells slots but u don't forget how to cast spells after certain times, but rather there's a cool down when casting spells
This System is extremely similar to how the Dark Eye does Magic for quite some time (it is a German RPG)
The only real difference is that you have something similar to a skill rank for every spell you know and you have to roll to cast the spell but the Rest (Mana Points, enhancements for more Mana etc.) is pretty much the same.
Weird how different People come to similar Solutions
I used Mana points in AD&D days.
18 minutes and 23 seconds of satisfaction. You scratched every itch I had about DnD's spellcasting. But casting spells together? Now you went beyond and above, I'm very very interested. Synergy and actual teamplay is everything.
Ive never liked the fact that wizards "forget" how to cast then suddenly the next day he "remembers" after studying the spellbook.
I disagree with doing away with spell foci though. Spell foci add to the role-playing aspect of D&D. Its not hard to implement a spell foci for each MU class and do it in such a way that compliments the spell points system.
We as designers of the game should always keep the role-playing aspect of the game ahead of the mechanics of the game. The two should compliment one another so you discourage players from playing the game in a mechanical way. Thats how the video game culture has influenced D&D in a negative way imo. But what do I know? Ive only been doing the game since the late 70s. 😂
Hey, Coach! I have a question about Spell Break from the Sorcerer class.
When you make a spellcheck, and succeed, do you still use that check for whatever results come from casting the spell, or do you need to make another spell check?
You are the best
Sounds a lot like how my Pwer Enhancers work in my Bashed & Borrowed RPG :)
I like your pitch for mana points and metamagic-esc enhancements. As you mentioned, it ties up all the lesser and greater spells. Also, I am a still a fan of spell focuses, but making them bonuses instead of mandatory is good.
Here's some 5e spell evolutions I thought of:
Float: Feather Fall -> Levitate -> Fly
Swift: Longstrider -> Haste -> Timestop
Vanish: Blur -> Invisibility -> Greater Invisibility
Heal: Cure Light Wounds -> +Lesser Restoration -> +Greater Restoration
Smokescreen: Fog Cloud -> Darkness -> Hunger of Hadar
was called psionics in AD&D
Nice, would staves, wands, orbs, totems, etc. Have mechanical differences in this dynamic too? Even a slight difference would be great. Some love like the weapons that are great
If you lift weights you understand and feel spell levels. You can lift higher weights less times and no amount of first level spell slots can give you energy for another max effort lift
This is a perfect analogy and wish the spell slot system was explained to new players in this way. It would clear up a lot of the questions as to why you cant equivocate two 1st-level spell slots as being the same as a single 2nd-level spell slot. Spell casting as a measure of "maximum effort" put in a single instant to channel magical energy and produce some sort of magical effect is exactly what the spell slot system represents.
you know 5e has a built in mana system already as a optional rule and it works great!, why do people forget about this?!
Spell slots were an attempt to gamify the magic system that Jack Vance used in his Rialto the Marvelous and Cugel the Clever stories (hence "Vancian Magic"). Alas, a system that worked just fine for novels was not as good a fit for games.
14:52 I'm curious by this. The way you put it sounds like spell casters are in different categories. Which one of my favorite things they WERE doing for One D&D was the new categories of spells; Divine, Arcane, and Primal. Even Tales of the Valiant is doing something similar but with an added Wyrd list. Would we be seeing something like that in DC20?
I'm on board with most of the things, just want to point out that the "prepared spell" supposedly works like this: "you prepare spell X and Y in your book, you draw the spell, you write the spell, whatever... this is furing your daily preparatuon, coz you prepare the spell, and takes 1 hour to do so, so normally casting a spell out of the bloom is not something you can do because it takes a lot of time to prepare a spell from the ground up. That said, during your day, you can provide the last bit of components, like verbal, somatic, material, and finish what you already prepared. "
so this is how spell preparation should work, and it make sense.... is it fun? ofc no, but it is what it is...
the best example i can give you, and this is usually how i explain it to my players, is like old guns, you have to prepare the pistol with gunpowder, you have toprepare the barrel, and the you put the bullet inside... after all this preparation, during a duel, you can sinply pull the trigger and shoot the target. Applying this to soellcadting and spell preparation is the same.
I myself like the old system of spells per day it is still game like but the resource management is still really nice.
Did you take inspiration from the Brazilian TTRPG Tormenta20? It uses a similar system with mana points and evolving spells.
DMG p.288 has an optional rule called spellpoints. You don't need a homebrew-system when there is a official rules already on which you can hop on😊😊😂
5e already has an alternate Spell Point system (DMG pg 288).
I don’t actually dislike spellslots but this is way better
Great video Coach!
I was wandering if it would not be better for lore and playable for players to give the wizard a reason to hold his book near him.
I think that maybe if he loose his Spell Book, he can cast only few spells from his level, and later in cmapagine he could collect all his spells if he would find a new book to write his spells down.
i like the sound of this. i hate beong limitied in my casting.
I like the spell enhancements a lot, it’s very creative. I disagree that this inherently simplifies spellcasting tho because the spellcaster will have to choose which enhancements to use. If the enhancements fundamentally change the spell effect, then it’s essentially the same as having a multiple spells to choose from
I am somewhat considering this system. I've been using a roll to cast system that awards "Spell Dice" as the currency paid making spellcasting more inconsistent and risky, but I have noticed that as my players have made efforts to cast higher level spells, using the dice has gotten a lot more difficult.
I am prone to overdesigning and this system seems quite simple.
Spell foci are important for the game. How come you can neutralize a martial by disarmimg them but casters are always as dangerous even when naked as long as they have a free hand? Only the Monk should be able to function perfectly with zero equipment.
Also, I'd love rules to prevent spellcasting by grappling and gagging an enemy in combat to block somatic and verbal components respectively.
Preventing/disrupting spell casting used to be reflected in 1E with the Combat Turn Sequence where time was broken down into rounds and segments with factors of dexterity modifiers, weapons speeds, and casting times could allow an opponent's physical attacks or spell against you to resolve before you could finish casting your own spell, even on the same initiative order. In the BECMI/1E/2E edition basically if you were trying to cast a spell and you are hit, grappled or are subjected to anything that required a saving throw/ability check (regardless of damage) before the spell's casting time had elapsed, the spell was interrupted.