those interested in translation of opening: Rush: you get up to much yesterday? Best: yeah, went on a date Rush: with who? Best: with my girlfriend. Rush: wow. was it fun? Best: of course bro That's literally what they said lol
@@KakashiDominates ok so in korean you have a phrase 배제하다. It's used a lot by korean starcraft pros. It basically means to discount something, or leave it out. So a lot of players will 'discount' dark templar when playing pvp, and go nexus without robo. Basically it means to discount certain possibilities. To a certain extent in this game you have to do in this in every game because you can't always cover every base Best just said to Rush don't 'discount' carriers. He was referring to an upcoming showmatch Rush was playing against protoss that day. Best basically meant to say that Rush tried to 'discount' carriers with his build in this game and got punished. Then Rush said 'yes sir' and gg'd. There we go^^
RT, you know how 3 out of 5 men say they could probably land a plane if they needed to? I think 3 our of 5 protoss players think they could probably beat flash if they practiced.
That feeling when it's nexus first and you scout it too late to bunker rush, so you double expand behind mines to take advantage of late observers, but your third is a mineral only and P went carriers. And since it's a mineral only and you expanded fast, you make a turret ring and get late scans. xd
1:09 This makes me wonder what if, instead of StarCraft, Artosis had picked up a hobby like crochet, and did daily casts of old ladies crocheting, commentating on their techniques, etc.
04:18 I like how Rush jokingly asks for the game to "not count" because BeSt's build is OP right after Artosis mentions how said build gives Protoss a huge advantage
What separates you from other SC commentators like Falcon for instance is your in game knowledge. You provide such a good analysis every time... such a nice perspective to what the pros are doing. Appreciate you a lot for that!
Falcon rambles too much about personal life which, usually, has nothing to do with the video. When he does commentate, he isn't entirely sure what's going on or what strategy is being deployed, nor does he understand nuance. Falcon does a poor job commentating.
@@dopyrussian-englishkeyboar9317 He is more of an entertainer than a true commentator. Good for new players to get hyped for the game, but for oldies like myself, he doesnt do it most of the time.
@@stambe8605 Exactly this. I found myself watching Falcon when I first started watching BW. Nice way to ease into it but nowadays I prefer more detailed casts. It's a different vibe and I wouldn't say one is the wrong way to cast. Falcon's clearly doing something right with those numbers and he is a gateway into the BW scene for many others. That's what makes Tastosis casts so great. Best of both worlds.
@@dopyrussian-englishkeyboar9317 I don't think that's fair. Falcon is very competent as a BW caster, it's just hard to compete with Artosis in that department. Dan's been the most knowledgeable English-speaking BW caster for *twenty years.* There are only a handful of people on CZcams that can even keep up with him, let alone try to surpass him.
@@gasstationpeanuts1814 Not to mention Falcon brings lots of emotion and humour in his casts. I find good balance between him and Artosis, one is more for the humour and the other is more for the knowledge. Artosis's problem is his bias towards terran, which is clearly the worst race to watch, especially against protoss.
I'm always curious about how much Korean Artosis or Tasteless know. I mean they've lived in Korea for a while. A little live translation of the chat messages would be nice but I almost never see it at all. Tasteless used to live translate interviews back when ASL casts were more official right? Or was he simply repeating words from someone else who was live translating?
Dude, that opening talk... Even if I don't think it'd be the best, I think Broodwar could be HIGH UP on the list of interests and top E-sports. I think it really should be. I'm definitely gonna share this around~. Your casts are amazing btw.
it's funny how just the build and the fact that it was Carriers immediately made this Best's game to lose. Even though Best didn't actually do well with his micro and Rush picked off so many carriers with his good Goliath micro, it feels like the result was never in question.
Man I really love Brood War carriers. I know it's rough for Terran, but having a capital ship that puts your opponent on a timer, and makes it so that if they don't deal with it on time they die feels awesome.
@@Pico141I disagree. Beating carriers in macro games is epic, nothing beats it. Winning with carriers on the other hand... you just make carriers, survive, and win by default.
You know cross spawn nexus first into carrier is so powerful when Best had pretty terrible Carrier control but still steam rolled rush with them and high templars at the end
When Best becomes sloppy with the carrier and let them being trapped feels like in chess when one thinks "I am winning this, easy", and then too much relax and one loses.
I allways wonder why Terrans don't mix few clocked wraiths with Goliaths. You can then scan, snipe the observers with Goliaths and bring wraiths to attack Carriers directly. That moment where Rush trapped all the carriers over the water would be perfect for wraiths. Common answer is that it's less efficient than pure Goliaths but allmost all games where Terrran goes for mass Goliaths to counter Carriers they lose anyways.
Terrans do that when they have the cash and the exact situation you described is capitalised on with the wraiths. Rush didn't do it this game because he didn't have the gas.
They say hello. Rush asks Best to go easy on him as he is tired. Best says he is tired too. Rush asks him if he went in a date. Best says yes, with his girlfriend.
im new to brood war and watching your videos is helping me learn the state of modern SC1 and how the game is played, thank you ^__^ if anyone else sees this and has learning resource recommendations besides day9's (sorta outdated) lets learn starcraft series then Let me know 🔥
that was that the most Artosis thing that has ever been said in the history of Artosis. "if everyone knew a reasonable amount about everything in the world, Starcraft 1 would be all that people do with their time"
This comment that you've made about getting hooked up on stuff we understand is priceless, a quality thought added to already great analysis you provide us with. Best BW channel ever!
Valks suck vs carriers because missiles don't splash interceptors and carriers have 4 base armor, so each individual shot does VERY little damage to hull.
so while im a long term watcher, im not exactly expert on the game, when theres this many carriers, wouldnt valkyries be a good counter? i seen them used to counter mutaballs, but shouldnt they destroy the interceptors? what am i missing on why they arent used?
Maybe you'd kill some interceptors, sure, but you need to kill the carriers. Valkyries shoot fast with low damage per shot and carriers have gigantic base armor, so valkyries wouldn't be terrible at killing them. The only flying unit terran uses against carriers is wraiths, but you can only afford that when already ahead - get lots of cloaked wraiths, use a scan to snipe observer then hunt down the carriers. This only works as a surprise tactic, too. Oh, and now I just learned from artosis's comment in the comment section that Valkyrie's splash damage doesn't even work against interceptors - that's pretty much case closed
would the outcome have changed if the Terran managed to transit into Battlecruisers? Or were they simply too expensive to be built based on that current position?
Transitioining costs too much time, money, and tech: 1) Starports 2) Control towers 3) Physics lab 4) Upgrades 5) No 3rd Gas You have little time to react and you have to work with what you’ve got, which is factories and armory.
@@iago7456 They do trade very well, actually. But as you mentioned, they are very expensive to transition to with the economy the T had when he scanned the Carrier tech. You need at least 4 bases and to be ahead of the Protoss, contrary to how in this game the Toss was quite ahead from the start due to bad BO luck vs cross spawn 12 nexus.
I keep wondering how efficient ghosts can be once you know protoss goes with carriers? I know Ghosts are taxing gas but each can get 2 lockdowns with enough energy. 3 Ghosts could get 6 carriers. Quick edit: Lockdown is also good against shuttle/reavers
Thought the same, tho observers and a few long range reavers underneath to cover against that is what I think the counter could be or maybe even 4-5 scouts to brapbrap the ghosts ?
It's insanely frustrating that cross spawn nexus first into carriers is just about impossible to defeat. You can play flawlessly as terran and lose 99% of these. Best even made mistakes and lost carriers at 9 o'clock but nope - doesn't matter.
@@Unabonger420 Try looking at it from a Protoss perspective. By the time you scout Terran, you already building your core and its only like 33 per cent chance your opponent is cross spawn.
@@stephenhester7354 EMP wont help much, but Lockdown is much more useful and cheaper vs Carriers. The problem is that pros dont like going out of their comfort zone (tbh nobody does) and they try to avoid it, as for the current meta, skill and understanding of the game its unreliable and they refuse to put practice time with that strategy branch.
Don't know why either side refused to use transports and drop each others bases with 2 transports to each base loaded up with just mineral units to save gas!
Oh yeah dude, the professionals who play this game every day should have thought of that. Almost like drops are not worth it for T due to cannons/carriers, and P would have to dedicate a lot to get shuttles/upgrades. But yeah, they should have thought of that.@@novitrix9671
When they're up to 10 carriers, is it worth getting maybe 4 Valkyries purely for shooting down the interceptors? They can hang quite a way back, interceptors have no base armour, and they'll clumped up enough for the splash. Obviously they're useless against the carriers themselves.
Intercepters dont get valkrey splash and colsair splash. Archon and devourer's splash works but one is too short to attack air units and other one is better focusing carrier itself.
@isaacsteele7986 The reason is that Corsairs and Valkyries were designed for the BW expansion as an anti mass Muta/Wraith/Scout units and bad vs Capital ships i.e. Carriers and BCs. Thats why Interceptors are hard coded to be immune to just Valks and Corsairs splash, as if it wasnt the case those 2 units would actually be a very good counter to then in a regular game, but they can still counter them in very large numbers cost for cost (i mean BGH numbers or team melee), but feasible for standard low money 1v1 maps.
I wander why don't we see EMP on protoss units almost ever at pro level matches? Especially on carriers. Also on buildings. It seems very powerful move to me. You cut their health almost half.
Honestly Valkyrie might even work. Just blast all the interceptors down. Might be not meta rn but from seeing the game since 2004 a trend I'm noticing is that people are getting more "diverse" set of units in modern BW. For instance queens and BC were never used in early 2000s in ZvTbut they're common now. So valk will eventually be used against carriers, once people figure out how to fit them into their builds and the tech switch cost associated with it
Wouldn't it be worth for Terran to build like 1 or 2 Science Vessels with EMP to strip shields from carriers and interceptors? Also, are wraiths just bad against this?
The wraith ball is amazing vs carriers, and he scanned and saw it soon enough to do it but opted for all out macro mech anyway. Wraiths are a one trick pony, you get one chance to surprise the protoss player and you'd better hope there's not more than 3 obs to snipe or it's gonna fail since wraiths rely on cloak or they just vaporize. Vessels with EMP are great but you'd need to D matrix one vessel to have it live long enough to get close to EMP the carriers. EMP is not a long range ability.
EMP is a supbar ability vs Carries, as most of the time the Terran doesnt gain much from it. Predominantly, If the Protoss has more than 2 brain cells, you arent attacking the Carriers themselves, but the Interceptors. Even if you hit the EMP, the Carriers will slowly regain their shields when they retreat or attack from cliffs and such, as for the interceptors, they get inside the Carrier to get healed to full as soon as they go bellow 10 hp/0 shields(if im not mistaken), so again the T isnt gaining anything from doing that either. A single Vessel is good for giving vision over cliffs and for the occasional D-matrix on a front Goliath or a Tank, but investing into EMP upgrade or more Vessels is usually a bad investment, as was in this game, because the 3rd is a mineral only. Wraiths can be decent, but require either a surprise attack for maximum effect or good zoning and baby sitting to keep them away from the Carriers and above the Goliath mass on hold position to attack interceptors, occasionally going for the Carriers themselves, if they get out of position, start retreating or get trapped like in this game.
Hi Artosis, I rarely ever make youtube comments but you are the only brood war content creator I watch. I really like starcraft but i got into it late. I play starcraft 2 fairly often and i am a diamond 3 player around 3250 MMR. I would like to get into brood war but it is extremely difficult. Do you have any tips? I play terran in sc2 and would also play terran in brood war as i am a chad. It would be really nice if you could make soke content on helping beginners. I also would like you to show some love for sc2 i know it may overall be inferior to brood war but it is still an amazing game and i hope you understand that. Thankyou for all thst you do and have done for the starcraft scene. Hope all is well with you and your failmily :)
Day9 has a pretty good series. And I haven't checked recently, he had some nice commentaries (not neccessarily games, but thougths) too, he understands StarCraft pretty well too.
leaving comments and liking the video and comments help, but theres diminishing returns on each account. so if you really want to boost you need to make new accounts to do it with
ok actual question - if you're facing this specifically as terran, how are ghosts with lockdown not a viable response to this? you already have the science facility and hopefully your rax, and then it's 250/250 for covert ops + lockdown research - the covert ops builds in 25s, then you can start getting ghosts, lockdown research is 63s. ghosts build in 32s, 50 energy regens in 65s. best case scenario with 1 rax, you can respond to knowing there are carriers with 1 lockdown-energy ghost in 25+32+64=121s or 2 minutes, with another one every 32s. for the full tech + 2 ghosts were talking 250/250 + 50/150 = 300/400. 4 tanks worth of gas, but if all goes well you're now in a position where each new 75 gas ghost can basically ensure the death of a full carrier. problems i can think of are mobility and taxing multitask from the spellcasting
like in this game, the carrier scout is fast, but the science facility finishes at 9:18, meaning that, by 11:45 the terran army could have 2 ghosts with lockdown vs the 4 carriers, which still seems good? it just seems like they're a high enough value unit that it warrants a direct counter
I dont think thats whats going to happen. When protoss players become even better with Carriers, Terran pros will be FORCED to try and commit to a different strategy and there are a couple on the theorycrafting sheet. Some of those might work if you put enough practice and commitment, if push came to shove.
@@ArtosisCasts sc2 kind of did a good job in making bio more viable than mech vs protoss. I think that may have something to do with the game mechanics?
The only time Bio is good vs Protoss is if you’re cheesing. Saw an ASL game tastosis casted a while back. Toss was going blind carriers and the Terran countered it by going Marine Medic. When there’s no spash damage, marine medic is great.
weird bleed over but my favourite smash bros Melee player, s2j, a top player in the game, also streams broodwar and I was relieved to see he's a B rank Terran
If you felt like doing something a little different, a series on some classic pro games would be great for newer fans. Im talking Flash/Bisu type of historic games.
those interested in translation of opening:
Rush: you get up to much yesterday?
Best: yeah, went on a date
Rush: with who?
Best: with my girlfriend.
Rush: wow. was it fun?
Best: of course bro
That's literally what they said lol
Thanks for translating for us non-korean speakers.
curious about what Best said at the end too lol
@@KakashiDominates ok so in korean you have a phrase 배제하다. It's used a lot by korean starcraft pros. It basically means to discount something, or leave it out.
So a lot of players will 'discount' dark templar when playing pvp, and go nexus without robo. Basically it means to discount certain possibilities. To a certain extent in this game you have to do in this in every game because you can't always cover every base
Best just said to Rush don't 'discount' carriers. He was referring to an upcoming showmatch Rush was playing against protoss that day. Best basically meant to say that Rush tried to 'discount' carriers with his build in this game and got punished.
Then Rush said 'yes sir' and gg'd.
There we go^^
@@ethansaltmere Very intriguing stuff. Thanks alot!
@@ethansaltmere wow great inside info, was wondering about that ^^ thanks
RT, you know how 3 out of 5 men say they could probably land a plane if they needed to? I think 3 our of 5 protoss players think they could probably beat flash if they practiced.
theres more people that identify as a zergling than protoss players that can beat flash
they are probably right
But how are going to practice if you are on the beach every day ?
Those 2 out of 5 men are quitters. Don't be a quitter. Land the plane.
@@SchemingGoldbergEven if I crash and die, it was indeed landed.
There is but one game, Broodwar, and Artosis is its prophet.
That feeling when it's nexus first and you scout it too late to bunker rush, so you double expand behind mines to take advantage of late observers, but your third is a mineral only and P went carriers.
And since it's a mineral only and you expanded fast, you make a turret ring and get late scans.
xd
That's how she goes
1:09 This makes me wonder what if, instead of StarCraft, Artosis had picked up a hobby like crochet, and did daily casts of old ladies crocheting, commentating on their techniques, etc.
04:18 I like how Rush jokingly asks for the game to "not count" because BeSt's build is OP right after Artosis mentions how said build gives Protoss a huge advantage
15:50 LOL " You know this is evil " xD
What separates you from other SC commentators like Falcon for instance is your in game knowledge. You provide such a good analysis every time... such a nice perspective to what the pros are doing. Appreciate you a lot for that!
Falcon rambles too much about personal life which, usually, has nothing to do with the video. When he does commentate, he isn't entirely sure what's going on or what strategy is being deployed, nor does he understand nuance. Falcon does a poor job commentating.
@@dopyrussian-englishkeyboar9317 He is more of an entertainer than a true commentator. Good for new players to get hyped for the game, but for oldies like myself, he doesnt do it most of the time.
@@stambe8605 Exactly this. I found myself watching Falcon when I first started watching BW. Nice way to ease into it but nowadays I prefer more detailed casts. It's a different vibe and I wouldn't say one is the wrong way to cast. Falcon's clearly doing something right with those numbers and he is a gateway into the BW scene for many others.
That's what makes Tastosis casts so great. Best of both worlds.
@@dopyrussian-englishkeyboar9317 I don't think that's fair. Falcon is very competent as a BW caster, it's just hard to compete with Artosis in that department. Dan's been the most knowledgeable English-speaking BW caster for *twenty years.* There are only a handful of people on CZcams that can even keep up with him, let alone try to surpass him.
@@gasstationpeanuts1814 Not to mention Falcon brings lots of emotion and humour in his casts. I find good balance between him and Artosis, one is more for the humour and the other is more for the knowledge. Artosis's problem is his bias towards terran, which is clearly the worst race to watch, especially against protoss.
Making carriers is a very useful talent toi have - IdrA
These casts have become a daily for me too. Great to watch!
I'm always curious about how much Korean Artosis or Tasteless know. I mean they've lived in Korea for a while. A little live translation of the chat messages would be nice but I almost never see it at all. Tasteless used to live translate interviews back when ASL casts were more official right? Or was he simply repeating words from someone else who was live translating?
Tasteless is fluent in Korean. Artosis seems to understand it on a conversational level, but doesn't speak it per se.
Dude, that opening talk... Even if I don't think it'd be the best, I think Broodwar could be HIGH UP on the list of interests and top E-sports.
I think it really should be. I'm definitely gonna share this around~.
Your casts are amazing btw.
Some people are just not smart enough for BW
Took a long time for him to get his carrier micro sorted. Really looked like Rush coulda rolled him around the midgame
2001: Oh not Carriers again
2024: Omg, Carriers!
Carrier has arrived!
Thanks Dan, another great commentary.
I enjoyed this a lot, thanks Artosis
Thank you Artosis! Keep up good work.
wow the early game chess match + the mid to late game micro control and high value unit targeting was incredible to watch.
Love your casts artosis
Protoss, so easy even a caveman can do it.
that opening speal sold me
Keep em coming, Arty!
Rush was maxed with map control and a mineral bank. Could he have taken a fifth and sixth base and plopped down a fat stack of turrets to pen Best in?
it's funny how just the build and the fact that it was Carriers immediately made this Best's game to lose. Even though Best didn't actually do well with his micro and Rush picked off so many carriers with his good Goliath micro, it feels like the result was never in question.
Epic game. Wonderful cast
Happy New year
Man I really love Brood War carriers. I know it's rough for Terran, but having a capital ship that puts your opponent on a timer, and makes it so that if they don't deal with it on time they die feels awesome.
doesn't feel awesome for the other side though
@@Pico141 never be on the other side, then
Unless you harrass/expand during early-mid game, or go BCs
;-;
@@Pico141I disagree. Beating carriers in macro games is epic, nothing beats it. Winning with carriers on the other hand... you just make carriers, survive, and win by default.
Great job with the goliaths
Funniest description of spider mines...double edged shields!
commenting for engagement. these games are a nice part of every day i get to do working out or desk job to
Bagging those 3 carriers and briefly trapping the rest has Protoss players everywhere going "Wait, thats illegal"
For a brief moment I thought the terran stood a chance lol.
Despair, for there is no hope for Terran vs carriers.
You know cross spawn nexus first into carrier is so powerful when Best had pretty terrible Carrier control but still steam rolled rush with them and high templars at the end
Yeah that carrier micro... pretty bad
Even worse than tasteless’s maybe
Great game, great casting as usual!!
When Best becomes sloppy with the carrier and let them being trapped feels like in chess when one thinks "I am winning this, easy", and then too much relax and one loses.
I allways wonder why Terrans don't mix few clocked wraiths with Goliaths. You can then scan, snipe the observers with Goliaths and bring wraiths to attack Carriers directly. That moment where Rush trapped all the carriers over the water would be perfect for wraiths. Common answer is that it's less efficient than pure Goliaths but allmost all games where Terrran goes for mass Goliaths to counter Carriers they lose anyways.
Terrans do that when they have the cash and the exact situation you described is capitalised on with the wraiths.
Rush didn't do it this game because he didn't have the gas.
Carriers the kryptonite for Terrans
I was surprised seeing that carrier donation but he ended up winning.
Artosis I would love for you to translate all the in-game chatter between the players. Would love to know what they are talking about.
They say hello. Rush asks Best to go easy on him as he is tired. Best says he is tired too. Rush asks him if he went in a date. Best says yes, with his girlfriend.
im new to brood war and watching your videos is helping me learn the state of modern SC1 and how the game is played, thank you ^__^ if anyone else sees this and has learning resource recommendations besides day9's (sorta outdated) lets learn starcraft series then Let me know 🔥
that was that the most Artosis thing that has ever been said in the history of Artosis. "if everyone knew a reasonable amount about everything in the world, Starcraft 1 would be all that people do with their time"
Morning routine isn’t complete without Coffee + ArtosisCasts latest vid.
Spreading the word
This comment that you've made about getting hooked up on stuff we understand is priceless, a quality thought added to already great analysis you provide us with. Best BW channel ever!
Mines are double edged shields.
- Artosis 2024
Great match!
Keep up the good work Artosis :>
So nice to have daily broodwar casts
Would turrets at the center position have helped at all? It looked like those observers evaded any scans.
Probably unbuildable terrain.
Dude loving your channel, but i dont get some basics like what it means to 'macro up.'
Can you recommend me a channel that explains strategy?
Would it have been worth trying to mix in some EMPs? Or Valkeries?
Valks suck vs carriers because missiles don't splash interceptors and carriers have 4 base armor, so each individual shot does VERY little damage to hull.
Not parking a couple tanks at 9 oclock base was a fatal mistake.
so while im a long term watcher, im not exactly expert on the game, when theres this many carriers, wouldnt valkyries be a good counter? i seen them used to counter mutaballs, but shouldnt they destroy the interceptors? what am i missing on why they arent used?
Valkyrie missiles do not deal splash damage to interceptors. Wraith would be a better counter, but they have low hp so not much used as well
interceptors do not take splash damage from valks or corsairs.
@@ArtosisCastsif you had to nerf carriers a little bit what would you suggest
@@jveerman No
Maybe you'd kill some interceptors, sure, but you need to kill the carriers. Valkyries shoot fast with low damage per shot and carriers have gigantic base armor, so valkyries wouldn't be terrible at killing them. The only flying unit terran uses against carriers is wraiths, but you can only afford that when already ahead - get lots of cloaked wraiths, use a scan to snipe observer then hunt down the carriers. This only works as a surprise tactic, too.
Oh, and now I just learned from artosis's comment in the comment section that Valkyrie's splash damage doesn't even work against interceptors - that's pretty much case closed
Go Artosis! Go Brood War!
would the outcome have changed if the Terran managed to transit into Battlecruisers? Or were they simply too expensive to be built based on that current position?
Battlecruisers don't trade well against carriers, and there are also too expensive to feasibly transition into.
Transitioining costs too much time, money, and tech:
1) Starports
2) Control towers
3) Physics lab
4) Upgrades
5) No 3rd Gas
You have little time to react and you have to work with what you’ve got, which is factories and armory.
Why we seeing bc’s recommended against carriers? They’re hard countered by arbiters (which Protoss often makes when they go carrier)
BC's shit on carriers but goons, storm, stasis, feedback, and mind control shit on BC's. Going BC's against toss is just a really bad idea.
@@iago7456 They do trade very well, actually. But as you mentioned, they are very expensive to transition to with the economy the T had when he scanned the Carrier tech. You need at least 4 bases and to be ahead of the Protoss, contrary to how in this game the Toss was quite ahead from the start due to bad BO luck vs cross spawn 12 nexus.
SPREAD THE BROODWORD
How come noone uses ghosts anymore on carriers?
How does Flash handle this? Presumably he just doesn’t allow crops spawn nexus first because he’s so good?
15:56 loooooool
@1:44 was peak content
I keep wondering how efficient ghosts can be once you know protoss goes with carriers? I know Ghosts are taxing gas but each can get 2 lockdowns with enough energy. 3 Ghosts could get 6 carriers.
Quick edit: Lockdown is also good against shuttle/reavers
Thought the same, tho observers and a few long range reavers underneath to cover against that is what I think the counter could be or maybe even 4-5 scouts to brapbrap the ghosts ?
Moar comments for the broodlord
Love u comment and comintment to SC. Keep it going!!
Cast Artosis with tidbits and other stuff is golden. Stream artosis pales in comparison.
I dont think Ive ever seen best go carriers in PvT before
0 ghosts is not enough ghosts
It's insanely frustrating that cross spawn nexus first into carriers is just about impossible to defeat. You can play flawlessly as terran and lose 99% of these. Best even made mistakes and lost carriers at 9 o'clock but nope - doesn't matter.
Proxy rax plus the boys.
@@redfiend cross spawn?
@@Unabonger420 Try looking at it from a Protoss perspective. By the time you scout Terran, you already building your core and its only like 33 per cent chance your opponent is cross spawn.
T doesn’t utilize EMP or lockdown nearly enough in this matchup. That’s the key but they go mass gol and try to grind them down instead.
@@stephenhester7354 EMP wont help much, but Lockdown is much more useful and cheaper vs Carriers. The problem is that pros dont like going out of their comfort zone (tbh nobody does) and they try to avoid it, as for the current meta, skill and understanding of the game its unreliable and they refuse to put practice time with that strategy branch.
It seems like the best case for terran in this situation is attack when funds are being directed to carriers
Don't know why either side refused to use transports and drop each others bases with 2 transports to each base loaded up with just mineral units to save gas!
Oh yeah dude, the professionals who play this game every day should have thought of that. Almost like drops are not worth it for T due to cannons/carriers, and P would have to dedicate a lot to get shuttles/upgrades. But yeah, they should have thought of that.@@novitrix9671
RT "Hey guys" octave level 7 - very high
When they're up to 10 carriers, is it worth getting maybe 4 Valkyries purely for shooting down the interceptors? They can hang quite a way back, interceptors have no base armour, and they'll clumped up enough for the splash. Obviously they're useless against the carriers themselves.
Intercepters dont get valkrey splash and colsair splash.
Archon and devourer's splash works but one is too short to attack air units and other one is better focusing carrier itself.
@isaacsteele7986 The reason is that Corsairs and Valkyries were designed for the BW expansion as an anti mass Muta/Wraith/Scout units and bad vs Capital ships i.e. Carriers and BCs. Thats why Interceptors are hard coded to be immune to just Valks and Corsairs splash, as if it wasnt the case those 2 units would actually be a very good counter to then in a regular game, but they can still counter them in very large numbers cost for cost (i mean BGH numbers or team melee), but feasible for standard low money 1v1 maps.
I wander why don't we see EMP on protoss units almost ever at pro level matches? Especially on carriers. Also on buildings. It seems very powerful move to me. You cut their health almost half.
I’ve never seen anyone go valks vs carriers, no good??
Honestly Valkyrie might even work. Just blast all the interceptors down. Might be not meta rn but from seeing the game since 2004 a trend I'm noticing is that people are getting more "diverse" set of units in modern BW. For instance queens and BC were never used in early 2000s in ZvTbut they're common now.
So valk will eventually be used against carriers, once people figure out how to fit them into their builds and the tech switch cost associated with it
Will never work, splash does not work against interceptors.
Wouldn't it be worth for Terran to build like 1 or 2 Science Vessels with EMP to strip shields from carriers and interceptors? Also, are wraiths just bad against this?
The wraith ball is amazing vs carriers, and he scanned and saw it soon enough to do it but opted for all out macro mech anyway. Wraiths are a one trick pony, you get one chance to surprise the protoss player and you'd better hope there's not more than 3 obs to snipe or it's gonna fail since wraiths rely on cloak or they just vaporize. Vessels with EMP are great but you'd need to D matrix one vessel to have it live long enough to get close to EMP the carriers. EMP is not a long range ability.
EMP is a supbar ability vs Carries, as most of the time the Terran doesnt gain much from it. Predominantly, If the Protoss has more than 2 brain cells, you arent attacking the Carriers themselves, but the Interceptors. Even if you hit the EMP, the Carriers will slowly regain their shields when they retreat or attack from cliffs and such, as for the interceptors, they get inside the Carrier to get healed to full as soon as they go bellow 10 hp/0 shields(if im not mistaken), so again the T isnt gaining anything from doing that either. A single Vessel is good for giving vision over cliffs and for the occasional D-matrix on a front Goliath or a Tank, but investing into EMP upgrade or more Vessels is usually a bad investment, as was in this game, because the 3rd is a mineral only. Wraiths can be decent, but require either a surprise attack for maximum effect or good zoning and baby sitting to keep them away from the Carriers and above the Goliath mass on hold position to attack interceptors, occasionally going for the Carriers themselves, if they get out of position, start retreating or get trapped like in this game.
SPOILER ALERT
I'm thankful for it since I don't want to see a match where stupid OP carriers win.
why not using valkyrie?
Hi Artosis, I rarely ever make youtube comments but you are the only brood war content creator I watch. I really like starcraft but i got into it late. I play starcraft 2 fairly often and i am a diamond 3 player around 3250 MMR. I would like to get into brood war but it is extremely difficult. Do you have any tips? I play terran in sc2 and would also play terran in brood war as i am a chad. It would be really nice if you could make soke content on helping beginners. I also would like you to show some love for sc2 i know it may overall be inferior to brood war but it is still an amazing game and i hope you understand that. Thankyou for all thst you do and have done for the starcraft scene. Hope all is well with you and your failmily :)
Day9 has a pretty good series. And I haven't checked recently, he had some nice commentaries (not neccessarily games, but thougths) too, he understands StarCraft pretty well too.
Not much of a commenting guy but i do it just for the game. Thanks for keeping it going
leaving comments and liking the video and comments help, but theres diminishing returns on each account. so if you really want to boost you need to make new accounts to do it with
ok actual question - if you're facing this specifically as terran, how are ghosts with lockdown not a viable response to this? you already have the science facility and hopefully your rax, and then it's 250/250 for covert ops + lockdown research - the covert ops builds in 25s, then you can start getting ghosts, lockdown research is 63s. ghosts build in 32s, 50 energy regens in 65s. best case scenario with 1 rax, you can respond to knowing there are carriers with 1 lockdown-energy ghost in 25+32+64=121s or 2 minutes, with another one every 32s. for the full tech + 2 ghosts were talking 250/250 + 50/150 = 300/400. 4 tanks worth of gas, but if all goes well you're now in a position where each new 75 gas ghost can basically ensure the death of a full carrier.
problems i can think of are mobility and taxing multitask from the spellcasting
like in this game, the carrier scout is fast, but the science facility finishes at 9:18, meaning that, by 11:45 the terran army could have 2 ghosts with lockdown vs the 4 carriers, which still seems good? it just seems like they're a high enough value unit that it warrants a direct counter
I got chills watching this!
Why didn’t he go into wraith to beat carriers like light
Commenting for Mr Algo Rhythm
For chatty games like this, could you possibly translate? I'm not sure if you know Korean enough to do that
He does :)
There was definite bias there but I love it 😂
It pains me to say carriers and by extension this matchup would be what kills BW in the end. I'd appreciate having my mind changed.
It might be one of the areas where eventually the meta will evolve enough so the terrans will learn to deal with it.
I dont think thats whats going to happen. When protoss players become even better with Carriers, Terran pros will be FORCED to try and commit to a different strategy and there are a couple on the theorycrafting sheet. Some of those might work if you put enough practice and commitment, if push came to shove.
We need a new Terran unit. The preacher, a spell unit with damage and rate of attack boosting skills. The hero unit is Master Preacher Artosis.
why not BC-s?
why no EMP?
supportive comment from somebody with not too much else to say :)
I see Carriers I click on the video.
RT: startcraft is the best game. Also RT: cross spawn nexus first into carriers = win.
Would love to know what the players said if you can translate! I guess you didn't if it was just carrier salt
Is marine/mech viable vs protoss?
no
@@ArtosisCasts sc2 kind of did a good job in making bio more viable than mech vs protoss. I think that may have something to do with the game mechanics?
@@arthuryong4968 simple in sc2 no Reaver and much weaker psystrom.
+sc2 terran had better ghost.
@@kya6816 yeah. Waaaaay better ghosts. Probably the main thing I liked about SC2 was having ghosts actually be badass.
The only time Bio is good vs Protoss is if you’re cheesing.
Saw an ASL game tastosis casted a while back. Toss was going blind carriers and the Terran countered it by going Marine Medic. When there’s no spash damage, marine medic is great.
front facing baby chick
weird bleed over but my favourite smash bros Melee player, s2j, a top player in the game, also streams broodwar and I was relieved to see he's a B rank Terran
DAamn! I always root for the non massing carrier player
Arty, new year's resolution? Pronounce versus as versus rather than "verse" :)
What about Valkyries vs carriers?
my thoughts exactly. 3 valkeries smash all the interceptors. and then the golliaths can pick them off.
I’d go with wraith
valkerie splash doesn't hurt interceptors@@wijn1008
interceptors don't take splash damage from valks or corsairs
interceptors don't take splash damage from valks or corsairs
❤
If you felt like doing something a little different, a series on some classic pro games would be great for newer fans. Im talking Flash/Bisu type of historic games.
He actually did have a lot of those and he was forced to take them down because of a claim made by kespa I believe.
very good for learning...but not a super good game overall. Nice cast!