Who Has the Best Lore in Age of Sigmar? - Warhammer Weekly 12062023
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- čas přidán 5. 12. 2023
- Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things warhammering! This week, we are breaking down who exactly has the best lore in the Mortal Realms and what makes good lore for an army?
#warhammer #ageofsigmar
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Irongutsman FEC Review: • Flesh-Eater Courts! | ... - Hry
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Vince: Rats are A tier story
Tom: they’ve done nothing
Vince: they don’t need to do anything
Nek minit
Vince: Slanesh is crap coz they haven’t done anything
I watch this show every week, as someone who has a) Never played AoS and b) Never bought an AoS model. But I keep coming back to watch knowledgeable people talk about something they obviously love. It's just compelling, fascinating, and heart-warming, in equal measure. Keep it up guys... btw, b) above will end this weekend as I managed to grab the FEC Box Set, which I'm going to paint using Vince's excellent method in his last video!!!
We need a scene where the other Mortarchs come to give Ushoran his Mortarch Nightmare mount things and then The Mortarch of Delusion and his people just eat it.
One of the problems with the Ogre lore is that it's two very different forces mushed into one faction. Beastclaw have the Everwinter and Gutbusters are hungry mercs. They need to decide what they are as a whole and run somewhere (anywhere) with it. Also, please give us a real Ogre character. Everyone's getting cool centerpiece models nowadays--why not the biggest fatty imaginable?
combine them to be a bunch of hungry big guys running from the cold ....
Vince's excitement on this subject was incredibly infectious. And Tom's tinfoil hat theory about chaos realm lords was a great romp into the world of headcanon. This was a really fun one.
I had to check the Battletome, but skraggrots main base is in Chamon, the realm of metal, there is also the secret gate to the pocket Dimension called the asylum where he holds any seer he can his hands on (abducts), coverts them to fungus Zombies so they help him predict the moon. But he appered in Multiple Realms ( i.e. Fire in a novel) where it is implied that he is really good at teleporting. Also the spiders can eat though realms ( similar to the skaven). Plus the Moon is also kind of a charakter in itself.I think Gitz have pretty good lore
Cites of Sigmar have the best narrative hands down for all the resons you talked about. The heroes I'm most drawn to are the flawed, ordinary people who rise up against evil no matter the odds. It's why Andor is the best Star Wars has been in 30 years and why hobbits (especially Samwise) are the GOAT.
I mean hobbits are GOAT? What about Gnomes!!!
"We have Vampire Fish Elves, what more could you want" -- Tom Lyons
...
I don't know, Tom... Maybe VAMPIRATES?!?
Loved this one, really appreciate thorough, enthusiastic, and respectful, lore debates!
Tom spoke directly to the deepest part of my soul when he said "the perfect cornbread muffin."
I’m gonna bring something up that Rob from The Honest Wargamer always says. “Cities of Sigmar, should be the poster boy faction of Age of Sigmar”. They are everything we want in a story. Someone/thing to relate too, and someone to root for. And finally their models show it too. I feel Space Marines are good for 40K, but Fantasy isn’t about super soldiers. It’s the struggle that makes both Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer AOS uniqueish.
Hear! Hear!
Amen!
in the begining, AoS felt like larger than life heroes battling other larger than life heroes, and even lowly foot soldiers felt like really heroic. I prefered that vibe over trying to bring low and grim and dark flavor to heroic setting
@@zandosdwarf-king that’s a valid point, I don’t want it to just end up becoming so grounded and dark that it becomes “warhammer fantasy 2.0”. I also, don’t follow AOS lore that closely either.
the counterpoint to that attitude is WHFB never had its own poster faction: I wouldn't even really consider The Empire a poster-faction until Total War 1 leaned into it. Stormcast are more of an outlier in this way. also, poster faction NEEDS to be simple to paint. which the new COS are not sadly :(
I think FEC has the best lore but not the best stories that use it. I think conversely Sylvaneth lore feels like the loosest "well we have all these endtime kits to sell" excuse but their stories, particularly in warhammer horror, are easily some of the best.
Great show as always.
My favorite is Cities of Sigmar. I love their lore and looks. They are ordinary humans who are fighting forces that kook mightier than they.
My next favorite is Stormcast. They keep sacrificing themselves fighting chaos and other forces that threaten Order. They give the ultimate sacrifice by losing a piece of themselves everytime they are reforged.
Vince is correct that they didn't create named characters even for just story purposes, but they existed as a spoiler faction within death because they were not able to be predicted or controlled by Nagash.
As a S2D player I love the backstory and character of the army but agree that they could be doing more in the current narrative. I would love GW to build up towards a full blown Archaeon/Belakor civil war. It could be a Realm spanning story that isn't just the usual Chaos vs Order dynamic we've seen a thousand times while bringing in all the other factions as their leaders pick sides or take advantage of the conflict.
Yeah my dream narrativ for the 4. Edition is the Age of Betray and Every Grand Allianz have a Civil War .
The perfekt world for skaven or Even the New Dark Elf Faktion.
I think GW tries to avoid foccussing to much on StD and especially Archaon because people are still salty about the end times. Nontheless I would love some short story about Great Demons or even the chaos gods themselves having to worry and lose to Archaon's fury
Vince reporting live from the heartland of America, downtown Manhattan USA 😂 is peak content
Slannesh's "seed" is literally his two Daughters. They need to do something with them!
OBR are a nice faction to be Nagash's main army that isn't just crappy skeletons with terribly unreliable vampires leading them.
Great show gentlemen! May I suggest a Winners and Losers of Warcry Warbands show? Thought that might be a fun one anyway keep up the great content!
Great suggestion!
Interesting on lore criteria. Relatable only works for me when it makes sense in the lore, otherwise it seems weird. Like if I can relate to some character who is supposed to be utterly alien, then it isn't alien enough.
40:30 - Toms vibe is "I don't see the value of your point"
You see Vince slip into a much softer and philosophical string of speech to sell and then immediately pivots to a new topic without offering opportunity to retort....
Lol, this man is a seasoned corporate communicator!
My story advice for 4th. Write all the faction leaders on their own piece of paper, but them into a bag, pull a few out, and those characters get screen time with each other.
Even inner faction. I want to see Order on Order tension. Chaos on Chaos peacocking. Death complaining about their boss
I have to agree about the corruption aspect of LRL with Tom I find a lot of hints that lead back to slaanesh but let’s be real I’m super bias and like all the elves falling to Slaanesh.
Speaking as someone who actually likes the Lumineth and their model range I would agree the narrative falls short. Specifically because the most compelling element, the fact that they were responsible for their own downfall, rarely if ever comes up in any relevant way. Sstill consistently portrayed as pristine and pretty, arrogant, condescending and totally lacking any self awareness. They’re like a watered down version of the Aeldari, without all the interesting bits. I do sincerely love the models though… except sentinels. If I never paint another sentinel it will be too soon.
I totally agree, Lumineth is seeded with some great story foundation and then they are just like "LOL, but elves are cool, right?" And just gave up.
What was the pen drill you guys were talking about at some point? I tried to click around and find it but no luck, could really use a rec for that
Wowstick Pen Drill
They should not just have best model. But a mount rushmodel. Top models!
My vote for best army is Cities but it's close with FEC. Like, sure the Cities are this deep and varied internally complicated faction that also get half points from every other faction they have an allied city with (because their dynamic with the other faction gets baked into their core story) But i could see Dawnbringers 4 and/or the new battletome pushing FEC over the edge for me.
Also, maybe it's the "my army" bias (or the fact I'm deep into an audiobook about them rn) but I think if Gitz get to be in the great teir so do Lumineth. Cool characters, movers and shakers in the world, and thier core concept resonates with me.
Like, it's not just that they were fundamentally so proud and vainglorious that they ended up destroying their own homeland and had to become elementalist hippies to make sure it didn't happen again, it's the fact that restructuring their entire society around becoming elementalist hippies is *barely* keeping a lid on the fundamental problem of them being arrogant assholes.
If anything, the fact that they think their problem is solved leads to more problems.
And I like that.
I think my vote for number 1 (fully acknowledging my own personal bias) has to be for Seraphon. I think my strongest argument for this would be that, of all the factions that carried over from Warhammer Fantasy, theirs has done the most elegant job of maintaining a solid through-line from old to new and then using that to build out something truly deep and unique within the current framework of lore established in AoS.
Latest Fyreslayer Model's story "I am the sole survivor of my home"
The Old World magic spells spread throughout phases matches what they do with Psychic in 40K
I would have put Lumineth on the Good List. Great reimagining of High Elves. Good characters, maybe not as active as last year, but a great story for High Elves that isn't just "They are so much better than humans, both intellectually and morally"
While I am a huge SCE and LRL fan boy..
I still find the Cities of Sigmar lore to be the most interesting.
Easiest way to sum it up..
1. Compare yourself to soldiers who are well trained, well equipped and serve in the defense forces.
2. These are those soldiers in the mortal realms.
3. Look at what they have to go through just to struggle and MAYBE survive against all these other cool armies in the setting. Just so that people can have towns and cities to live in..
4. Remember how you compared yourself to a well trained soldier, you now have some glimpse of what your life would be like in the mortal realms!
Too early to crown FEC. I'd bet at the end of 2nd OBR would be up there, but they just weren't used or expanded in edition.
Cities is definitely it.
Really Destruction not having a lot to show for this edition is really just sad considering this was there edition. Even if WAHHs are just hurricanes, it'd be real cool to have more Warbosses interact and at least drive home some Destruction politicking.
While I agree with everything said about Seraphon, the problem I have with them as seraphon player is their secondary/assisting role for other factions in the narrative, especially due to the lack of named characters. All our lore happens in the background of other factions and mortal realms, even the fact the constellations now coalesce. Stormcasts need dragons? Seraphon will deliver. CoS city is being attacked? Seraphon foresaw, seraphon attack. The only exception is Kroak, but even he feels like a narrative cheat code, like eagles in Lotr. The only lore blurb about Kroak in the new battletome where he does something for seraphon themselves is the fact that he tries to take control of Koatl's Claw constellation again, which unfortunately leads nowhere. His role in the grand narrative does lead to very cool moments that I enjoyed, like the Defense of Excelsis, but I wish some characters were inside the faction for the faction, like Nakai or Gor-Rok were.
I’m kinda new to AoS. I know way more about 40k than AoS. But from what I’ve seen yet I feel hopeful for the Kruleboyz lore since they are relatively new and I feel there is more possibility for them with their evil nature to be part of interesting lore compared to the usual comedic relief orks of GW in general.
Anyways, that was a really interesting discussion!
Tom is right…I got into Ogors almost exclusively due to Heywoah’s influence.
Given that Skaven are one of their more original IP it is surprising they haven't done much with them. But do you think Skaven v. Malerion for a Launch Box?
I think Skaven vs. Cities or Stormcast (or both).
Top models for me are Harbinger, Talia, and Ionus.
A doraleous and associates reference! I knew you had taste Vince!
FEC had great lore since 1st edition. One of the best AOS reimagings as Tom stated.
The only AoS army I still re-read the old tomes, and buy any black library release from is KO. I don’t know what it is but I just love everything about their lore. The rest of AoS lore I’m really not that into as an old fantasy guy who likes his German pikemen, but there’s just something awesome and fun about the KO, their society and their wildly different sky-ports.
I think my top 3 currently are DoK, Seraphon, and Maggotkin. Seraphon have a duality that has been pretty well explored and they can inhabit both aspects in nuanced ways and serve in various capacities in the stories. Maggotkin you explained pretty well and I agree. DoK can get points taken off because they are nothing outside of Morathi, but I think that is actually points in their favor. They are a cult built around the ego of a very powerful but flawed persona in Morathi. There is a reason why her part of Broken Realms worked so well and the Teclis part of Broken Realms felt so flat. FEC I think people really love as a concept, but currently they have done nothing more besides be an interesting concept. FEC and GSG occupy the same space for me.
I would agree with Tom on Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth Deepkin in Decent. I really like their books/lore. I like Ironjawz too even if they don't have much lore at all. Ossiarch Bonereapers because of Arkhan the Black, though Katakros is cool too.
Since vince hates magic so much, I wonder if he has any ideas for ways to "fix" it.
Now there is a show
Seconded, would love a show about that!
Stormcast are really interesting to me because they are more than humans... but yet not as alien as Space Marines
Tom - Problem with Cypher Lords is they are Hysh but also Tzeentch so they don't fit in the corruption of LRL pseudo-narrative :-p. Unless maybe they provided the LRL their hats.
Im torn between cities and FEC, but both are in the top 3. I have both, plus sylvaneth and stormcast. i agree as much i love them that their lore isn't as close to the others. Great show as ever. I look forward to my new army FEC for review next week.
Interesting conversation. Thanks
I think DoK have great lore, some of the soul blight named characters have some cool background stories and I like the depiction of nurgle characters, perhaps because they always have great voices in the audiobooks.
I think you should have called this show, “Why Tom hates Chaos and loves Elves.” 😂😂
Overall, good show and is fun to hear a good talk about lore and story behind the game. I love the AoS lore and glad to see it discussed.
I think Lumineth is compelling in the sense of a civilization almost destroyed by Hubris making a comeback. You can't have this many factions in a game and have them all be compelling at the same time. DOK strong as well, the "bad" good guys.
Who thought you could defeat Slaanesh by chaining it up and torturing it? Honestly It's just savouring an extended bondage session with Elven gods.
They can't find the photos because the Webstore is so jacked up.
I normally agree with 90+% of vince's takes but I feel these rankings were way off the mark! Khorne and tzeentch anywhere out of the basement? 😂 Still led to some good discussion though. I do look forward to listening to the show each Thursday.
On Nurgle story vs slaanesh a lot of what nurgle does in cities slaanesh can do similar thing should GW or black library decide to actually start writing the stories and lore other than Slaanesh is trapped and people are either looking for their god or invading and/or pretending to be a god. They definitely can do more. Slaanesh, again maybe my bias, can have some super interesting stories with subterfuge and investigation. They did a good job of stories like that with the neffy books made me love her!
Love to watch the video on the comp piece you partially redid because something wasn't right!
1 minute in: Skaven.
I'll watch the rest for moral support.
So thinking about this, I think it is incorrect to functionally ignore the lore that is the history of a faction. That is fairly central in the telling of the tale that is the faction itself. I don't mean 'how was the faction presented 5 years ago', I mean the stuff that they did in the past of the setting. I didn't hear you talk much about that despite how integral it is to understanding the present of some factions.
I also think, in addition to The Past and The Present of each faction, I think it is just as important to have a good short description and I think it is important to assess how much a faction represents AoS, and not just some generic fantasy. For example, I think Skaven are one of the most Warhammer things to ever exist, and I think they have the kind of lore that places them firmly in AoS. Same with Kharadron Overlords and Idoneth Deepkin. But something like Beast of Chaos, Fyreslayers, or Soulblight need something that marks them firmly in AoS, and not everyone has that. Soulblight does a good job of bringing in some elements of strangeness (werewolf vampires, bat-centaur-vampire things) but something like Beasts of Chaos just... don't. Beast should be incorporated into S2D and the god-specific beastmen should be in the god-specific books. They just don't do *anything* on their own. Fyreslayers are very similar. I just don't think you can even be in the conversation if you don't have something that makes you distinctly AoS. It doesn't have to be exclusive to AoS, but it has to feel like it belongs in AoS.
So for me, the best factions for lore are Cities, Skaven, and FEC, with FEC only being added because of what their new book adds. I think things like Seraphon falls short because they don't lean into the AoS nature of their lore. Just make them all starfaring lizards instead of having them being actually real or whatever. I like KO a lot but I think there is only so much Capitalist Steampunk Sky Dwarves can do. I think it is a uniquely AoS thing, but I don't think they have enough cool stuff in the past or present to clear the barrier into being one of the best.
The same works from the bottom. I think Beasts are maybe the worst lore faction for me, simply because they don't do anything uniquely AoS in the lore, they feel more like a Destruction army that is trapped in Chaos because of Old World lore, they have one named guy (their Underworlds warband leader) and none doing anything of note in the story, and they feel like a relic that kind of no longer has a true place in the setting. At least Nighthaunt have something interesting going on in their backstory and some cool named characters.
On a separate note, if we could separate out some sub-factions, that would be awesome. For instance, I love the Beastclaw Raider lore and the Everwinter stuff a *ton*, but I don't find the rest of the Ogors compelling in the slightest. They're just basically the same as the ogres in nearly every other fantasy setting. I feel the same way about Bonesplittas. I like some of what the Kruleboyz and Ironjawz bring to Orruk lore, but I just don't see a place for Bonesplittas.
For the most part, I think GW does an excellent job on the lore for most of their factions, but I would like to see some of the old cut away to make room for something new that leans heavily into what AoS can do.
Okay so I guess we need to a show tiering Tom's lore then! (I kid) though saying that, it'd be too much work for one show, but I'd love to hear you both pitch a new faction of yours with a little bit of lore and a bit of rules!
Slaanesh loves to plant a good seed but they won't call you after. Bloody typical.
Bonesplittaz are effectively squatted.
The Slaves to Darkness lore seems like a challenge to me in ge real. All of the cultists are AWESOME world building, but beyond that the army sort of feels like a slapped together bit of lore thru made from the scraps of models that didn't end up in the 4 God marked armies. It would have been I treating if they leaned into the archaon and belakor thing and made them more of an army that was just loyal to them in particular and ditch the whole God mark thing.
11:30 my vote went to the Marshal on Horse, for the same reasons you gave. Did you end up voting for him too Vince?
Edit: I would not say you would throw you vote away. If a AOS mini indeed has no change of winning, you might as well vote for your actual favorite model instead of voting strategically. I am sure the stats will still be used internally somehow.
Of the 4 main chaos factions I agree that Nurgle is the most compelling. Not because I like the gross models, but when you look at how Nurgle has been portrayed in the Mortal Realms in shows like Blacktalons and such, the reason why people join Nurgle out of desperation seems relatable. People suffer, a lot, and as a means to end their suffering, accept Nurgle's gifts, albeit reluctantly. That is relatable.
What is the rationale for Khorne? Too many steroids? Not enough 24hour Gyms in Hammerhal? Why are people joining Slanesh? I never see presented truly compelling stories about how people fall into those cults. Tzeetch OK, you got the classic search for forbidden knowledge, just as planned. But Khorne and Slanesh cults seem so over the top goofy?
You sold me on CoS. If I wasn’t already not trying to buy an StD army I’d be trying to not buy a CoS army lol
I haven't watched yet, but I'm looking forward to you talking about why Skaven have the best lore for two hours 😉
Hope you enjoy it!
❤ u guys. Consistent like a best friend
I watched Blacktalon before my subscription expired, it was good.
I agree with the final top 3. I guess seraphon is my winner, but just because I'm a massive seraphon stan so I'm biased ^_^.
Regarding your comment about stormcast and cities. I agree that cities is handling the "how do we live in a world where we constantly have to fight for our existence" very well (altho I'm currently afraid it'll become too much like the 40k ish answer of lets get religiously fanatical and facist, but we'll see ^_^)
But I do feel like that means stormcast has to leave that narrative space. I think they need to explore the "we are souls captured to become machines of war. what does that do?"
For me Stormcast needed to be in the Good, the whole humans given power to save that which they hold most dear only to slowly forget what exactly it is they wanted to protect in the first place.
Stormcast are human, they fear, they love and worry.
Fec have great lore but until just now literally have no in world impact.
Skaven are a minor tale at best most impactful thing was a token attack on the Black Pyramid from clan Slynk.
I’d put DoK very high aswell Morathi is probably the single biggest story arc in all of AoS outside of Gardus.
"Relatively short show" == 2 hours
I think Gitz nail it for me. To partially quote Peep Show: Bad moons are da best, get high all the time
Please do a show about magic, I hate how swingy and unreliable it is and would love a show discussing possible fixes
Thank You for a Video.
You're welcome!
Feel like cities are most compelling. Like the idea of regular dudes fighting crazy nonsense.
Tom is Right Flesh Eater courts have the Best Lore Overall.
i do think its rather subjective, i really love the Slayers lore but i already know its not a majority opinion.
While I have a love hate relationship with Skaven, I do hope for all the rat bois this isn't vampire pirates
Skaven lore I have to agree with Tom, in D&D terms the bestiary entry is great the actual story told F teir
I have a few thoughts on best, my view is possibly skewed though as I tend to prefer a setting, over evolving narrative. Although in general AoS I feel has handled it well. Far better than 40k where it has made a vast setting feel small. I also think views maybe skewed by novels although if you need a novel to access the lore it's in the wrong place. Best I'd probably say cities though, as they are the story of the realms the variety, the diversity and sheer breadth. Strong hooks to hang a narrative on and yet showing a world large enough to make your own space
I'm confident we are getting the Skaven this time. :)
Going to make some toast right now...
Lumineth are dull as dishwater though. Somehow manage to be significantly LESS interesting than high elves.
best lore is the goblins!!!!!!! not even looked at sigmar lore with them but whatver my 90s metal goblisn good!
Is Tom a GM when he plays TTRPGs?
Both Tom and I have GM’d much of our life :)
@@VinceVenturella Tom seemed to really enjoy plot hook type lore for stretches and big sweeping changes that leave space for gameable stories, while you seemed to like larger world building type lore. Speaking broadly
Nighthaunt near the top
Yeah nah, Seraphon are way too out there for me to fit into even this fantasy setting. They'd be much lower on the list.
I agree with the other top 3. Even though I do believe the lore of the cities doesn't actually lean too much into the initial lore of the people from the realm behaving certain way - or even looking like they belong to a particular realm. Bone splitters definitely bottom.
I am making a Sylvaneth Army for 2024 and your disrespect of their lore wounds me to the quick! I am doing Drycha, the Outcasts and Dreadwood which I think is the most compelling part of their Lore.
We all love strong opinions here, but I feel that skaven should be removed from the AoS setting as a faction, and they should be absorbed into the chaos factions. Some units / clans whatever are already tied to the other chaos gods. So scrap it and let's get interesting, some units/clans could be between gods, part tzeentch part slaanesh or whatever. Skyre is definately the magic of khorne (as it has always been described in the og lore) Is Eshin slaanesh or tzeentch? Probably Slaanesh actually.
It would make things much easier for GW too.
This is heresy. ;)
Just a couple elf lovers
Skaven 4 Life!
Woo here's a chance for aos to win model of the year 3 strong 40k mean aos has a chance. I'm a little sad forgeworld models weren't included into votes.
i have to admit i know practically nothing about AOS lore. even for the armies i play. I will not put the reason that my first 2 armies were Nighthaunt and ironjaws.
Game Lore is annoyingly stagnant because GW wants to keep it available for all our battles to play out. While on one hand I am like "More Ghur?" but then also if someone just finished their Ghur themed army you don't want to see the NPCs go "And Lo, the war is won and no one shall ever mention Ghur again, onward to Chamon!"
10/10 show
Age of Smegmar
I don't get it. :)
Vampirate skaven
I liked cities when theye were elves, dwarves and humans working together, but this can't be replicated in the game, and both in game and in lore, its just human centred to the point it seems like dwarves and elfs going to be squatted soon. You might say than in lore discusion, game rules shouldn't matter, but for me its important to not have dissonance between fluff and crunch, if someone is described to be powerhouse, they should be strong, if someone is described to be working together, they shouldn't require racial keywords in the game to buff your units etc.
Worst faction lore goes to Beast of Chaos. I don't know anything about them. Never heard anything about them
Dont know about the best but as a humble BoC player i know nothing about BoC and what they have going on. Do they even have named characters or anything going for themselves?
Not really, and this is one of their challenges.
Listening/Reading their lore feels quite flat and confusing. They feel randomly put into this AoS universe and would fit way better as a destruction faction. I also have forgotten that they exist many many times when thinking about Factions in AoS.
Sons of Behemath or FeC (before their new release) have had the same problem for me xD
The only thing BoC has done is one of our named great bray-shamans( who doesnt have a mini) found a way to use and control the essence and power from incarnates
In AoS 2 GW created 3 names characters in 2 books. And they all died within those books.
I think they realised that and resurrected one, and invented some others. But nothing has really happened.
Shame :/ would love to see what the evil NPCs of the realms are up to
Some lore in AoS is pretty good. SCE have grown a lot imo. Elven, Order in general and Chaos have great stories. Most of destruction is a bit too cartoonish for me, while Death has some depth to it aswell.
I still prefer 40k lore even though I play and collect AoS the most.
Imho, unpopular Opinion: FEC has the most overrated lore. People just love this delusional thing, for whatever reason while it is also not that creative or innovative written at all.
Its not bad or anything, but overhyped for me personally.
the concept of FEC is great but they have done nothing more with it and it is teetering towards being just a repeated one-note joke
I think they just have incompatible core opinions on what makes "good" lore
OK, so let me try this argument, and see what people make of it. Cities of Sigmar have the best lore, because without them we simply wouldn't have the game we know as Warhammer: Age of Sigmar. Even the Stormcast pretty much exist to protect the peoples of ME from peril.
Great argument.