@@robinwong valid arguments for your style of photography and your reasons why you do not use it are very fairly put. I do use bbf but have no argument with the reasons some (many?) photogs. do not use it.
There is another big reason which you did not even mention: sometimes I give my camera to another person (like my wife or even a stranger) to make a photo from me (or me and my wife). In such situations those people are not used to your camera at all; just imagine to explain them that the focusing is working completely different and they have to push a separate button...
Exactly!! I ran into that problem so often. I found that setting the camera to intelligent auto in that case does revert to shutter AF. But then it overrides any manual settings you may have set.
@@robinwong but if you want a photo of yourself when out and about you HAVE to let someone touch your camera. I quite often shoot people with a promise to send them the shot. Sometimes they return the favour. Last time this happened, the person was using a low end Canon DSLR in JPEG mode and while the shot was nicely framed, the sky was totally blown out. I should have handed over my wonderful E-M1 ii which was already adjusted for the cloudy/bright sky
Your points are valid; to each their own. Having said that, following are reasons I use BBF exclusively: 1. My camera's AF sucks... slow and struggling 2. I do a lot of AF-lock and re-compose types of photos 3. I do a lot of AF-lock, compose, then wait for the right moment types of photos 4. I don't shoot in wide aperture most of the times 5. My camera's AF sucks... yes, it's that bad that I need to say it twice. Oh, how I miss the snap focus feature of Ricoh GR series.
Firstly I laughed, having watched Matti's video yesterday. It is fun to have both points of view. For me, I have tried back button focussing but so far I haven't warmed to it. Focus locking is possible without back button focussing, maybe that is the compromise as you can do that just when you need it.
Matti is an amazing friend, I learned so much from him. I just have to make this response video. I hope I made it clear enough that there is no right and wrong, just personal preferences.
Most of the commenters and the creator are missing a few things/points. 1) I use it for portraits too and non-moving subjects I do not shoot sports or wildlife. If I pose a group or family for a portrait, I place the focus where I want it and then with the camera in a tripod I can shoot away and work on getting good expressions instead of making sure I get focus each time 2) regarding compromising handling of the camera, your left hand should be holding the weight of it not your right. The right hand is for button pushing not supporting the camera 3) night photography this is essential, especially when doing things like light painting in pitch dark conditions. The camera will not be able to focus. 4) macro, you can use BBF and AF-C or continuous focus. That would work. 5) I shoot wide opened too. Don't have a problem using BBF for that either.
I've tried back button focus countless times on all manner of cameras as people constantly keep going on about how amazing it is, I don't like it at all! For action shots, I find it far more helpful to leave the camera in servo AF and assign a button to turn the AF off when held down if I really need it. Works a treat for me and far better than back button focus ever did.
I moved from Canon 7D to Olympus OM-1 Mark 1 - and when i first got it, I was all about setting up BBF but after a while, i realized that the experience on that smaller body was not comfortable at all, like you mentioned. With more advanced AI auto focus, I think BBF’s days are numbered. The points you make about the comfortable grip, and delay between are def noticed coming from a full size DSLR with APS-C sensors. The canon had the button right under the thumb and you could hit it without breaking your grip. So I agree with your reasons and I’m realizing the same thing.
I like this! Although I have used bbf for many years, this made me think it over again. In some situations I'm in trouble with bbf. It is always good to question things you do for time to time.
I started off drinking the bbf cool aid when I got my first Nikon dslr. Went to shoot at an aquarium over a year ago & left home with a monster cramp! Over half of my shots came out blurry. Your video makes complete sense. Now I shoot exclusively with shutter button focus & Aputure Priority. Gotta say ive had alot more keepers since then! Amazing how Technique can make all the difference in not only photography but in any other profession like boxing, arts, race car driving & cooking food. Thanks for sharing your experiences! How you extend your arms & hands can act like a gimbal! Anytime you release your firm grip slow shutter speeds can amplify those slight twitches. OIS/IBIS can help but maintaining grip goes along way to increase your keeper rate!
Great job, Robin. I learn a great deal from both you and Joe Edelman, both of you Olympus Visionaries. I shoot Canon, but both of you make your teaching applicable to all photographers
Dear Robin, i completely agree with you, since i heard about the BBF technique i´ve trying to catch what was all the hype about, cause i didn´t see a real advantage in using that technique, even so after hearing the explanations from some of its users, but you have now listed in full detail all my concerns about it in your usual clear ways. Thanks
Thanks Robin for a well thought out and helpful video! I really appreciate your approach to photography and to sharing your insights and perspectives. You are very respectful of other options and the choices that other photographers make. I am grateful for that! I have never used BBF and I don't see a need to for the kind of photography that I do...mainly street. I also enjoy Matti Sulanto's channel and have also learned a lot from him. Please keep up the good work!
I actually use both methods depending on what I'm shooting. For wildlife I find back button really helps. For landscape, architecture, street, I use normal shutter. Both modes programmed as custom on my g9 so easy to flip between.
Wow! Excellent discussion with compelling points. I have heard many photographers claim that they use BBF “all the time,” and I think your points explain why this is unnecessary or even wise. I have found that I use the shutter focus most of the time ... until I’m in a situation where BBF works better. There is no reason to think there is only one way. Thanks for your very positively positioned “opposing” points.
I'm 100% with you Robin. I do mostly landscape photography and more often than not I use a remote to trigger the shutter. I have disabled that button completely.
Hi Robin. Thank you for your perspective, very interesting. My main benefit from BBF is when I have constant auto focus switched on. So when my thumb is held on the BBF button, then the camera focus is adjusting until I’m ready to shoot. That’s useful when my subject is moving. Once I remove my thumb, then the focus locks and that saves me re-focussing when my subject is static and I want several shots. BBF is easy to use on EM2i but it is really awkward on my EM10iii. The programmable button is not in an optimum position. A disadvantage of BBF you can add to your list, is when you hand your camera to a friend and have to explain how to focus. That’s something I dislike, so much so, that I may set up my EM10iii without BBF, for that reason alone.
Thanks for sharing your experience, and I appreciate that you mention the difference between E-m1 Mark II and E-M10 Mark III. About sharing camera... I don't usually share mine! Don't touch my camera!
Hey Robin. Finally a pro respected photographer who doesn’t use back button focus. I tried it many times and hated back button focus. My first point was why use two triggers for one shot. And secondly back button focus just never felt right. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Also I find both your and Mattie's points absolutely valid. I have shutter button focus for all my standard modes and back button for my custom ones. That way I can quickly choose which one I need depending on the situation. Don't use BBF that often though.
Hi Robin, exactly the same for me. Your friend Matti said in some cases it is not necessary that the camera focuses every time you press the shutter button. This is absolutely right. On the e-m1 it is possible to keep the shutter Button half pressed between the shots and maintain the focus you achieved before the first shot. I love this feature so much and I use it very often. For sure other Olympus cameras are also able to do it. It needs only a little practice to perform it, and for me it makes bbf completely obsolete. Btw, your Videos are very informative, and I love Your pictures, they are stunning. Thank you.
Having used back button focus on my DSLR I adopted it for the EM1 mk ii I purchased. Not sure if it’s the size of the Olympus but I did find that as mentioned by Robin that for me it made the camera less stable and more prone to unnecessary movement. Especially for close up shots. So, I am going to revert back to using the shutter release button for focus to see how it works.
Robin, thank you for your point of view. A while back I started using back button focus on my EM1.2 and after a while I liked it. However I also use a EM5.2 and BBF does not work for that camera, so I end up going back and forth depending on the camera I am using. After your explanation of the way you use yours I may go back to just using the shutter button for both functions on both cameras. It will likely be easier and less confusing.
Robin thank you for the video, I agree with your observations to a very large extent. I have over the years alternated from BBF to shutter focus and I have decided shutter focus and exposure is more practicable. At the point around 6min 20 sec you mention a delay between focus and pressing the shutter, I shoot mainly wildlife including macro and for 90% for the time I use Continuous AF, the reason being even when you are still or the subject is still one is almost inevitably not! So if you if you did use BBF and then pressed the shutter you would be in focus, I always pressed BBF before the shutter and kept it pressed as I pressed the shutter, the two actions can be simultaneous, therefore the likelihood of a correctly focused image is highest.
Excellent arguments, Robin. I use BBF most of the time for the work I do, and it works very well for me. Most of the time though, I have a pretty big lens on my camera (typically the 4/3 35-100 f2), and I don’t rely on supporting the camera as much with my right hand. That frees up my thumb significantly. I do a lot of theatrical production photography, and that means shooting close to wide open most of the time. The AF that the camera selects is often counter to what I want, and BBF enables me to choose better, then recompose. I got close to 750 shots over a session of 90 minutes the other night, and found focus problems in less that 10% of them using BBF, much better than the 25-30% I get when I don’t use it. There are times when it isn’t appropriate at all, and it is a simple adjustment to not use BBF, but I do use it most of the time when I am using S-AF. I do use a lot of C-AF when shooting wildlife and birds, so it is easy for me to adapt to the situation.
Good to see some fun interaction with other you tubers about photography, I enjoy watching your channel as well as Matti's. I tried it once to see what it was about but it did not work for me. But one of my friends swears by it.
I hear you Robin, in the 15 years that i have involved in digital photography and shooting many different subjects i have never used back button focusing for many of the same reasons you have spoke about.
Great video Robin, I have been using BBF and do like it even though I don't at times, I'll now switch back to normal and see how that goes, nice to have that option
I have found that back button focusing works better with certain cameras than others. I never use it with mirrorless cameras, but with some dslrs like Canon 5D III and Pentax K1 I think it works well, both ergonomically and from a results point of view. But since it depends a lot on what you are shooting, it is good to set it to one of the custom settings on the mode dial so you can quickly turn it on or off. Thank you for another great video!
Thanks Robin for explaining where back button focusing does not work. It is extremely important for people like me who are trying to improve taking photographing, to hear and know where to use and where not to use different focussing systems. Thanks for the Vedio
i will agree with you on this. There may be a few cases where BBF would be a benefit, but not for my shooting styles. I do landscapes, architecture, and this last year really got into street photography -- all of which work best for me using the shutter button for focus.
I understand what you are saying and I can see your point on your camera. Fortunately on my camera I don't have to move the position of my thumb with BBF on or off. My grip is the same as with the traditional focus Like others have mention I use it in continuous focus and lift the tip of my thumb a millimeter if I want to simulate single focus. I actually find I'm more stable taking shots as I don't have to feel and wait for the spot between getting focus and then fully pressing the shutter button to take the shot. I have focus already locked iin and it is one smooth motion to activate the shutter. Pausing on the shutter button to acquire focus causes me to apply uneven pressure to the camera body during a shot leading to more camera motion. The ergonomics of my camera seem to be better suited for BBF focusing. I'll have to keep this in mind if I move to another camera body. I don't want to give BBF up! Like you said what works for you. Great video!
Sure, if BBF works for you, continue using it. As long as you don't look at other photographers who don't use it like they are alien or something, it is fine.
Hi Robin, interesting and valid points you bring up. I personally like back button focus. This brings up the next question: how do you focus? Do you use focus-re compose or do you move the focus point every time? How does that work for you in a 'fast' environment like street or wedding? I used to move the focus point around on my em5 with the 4 way d-pad but as I kept moving the focus point around accidentally by having the camera over my shoulder I have disabled the dpad. I had a lot of missed shots due to this. That lead to using the middle focus point and recompose, and finally back button focus. I found going into the super control panel and moving the focus point also a tedious task, so that's why I ended up with single point and back button focus
I move the focusing point every single time. I have a shortcut button to recenter the AF point quickly if needed. I don't believe in focus and recompose, that inroduces too much focusing error since I shoot wide open and close up shots a lot.
My preference is BBF but recently I have found a wildlife scenario that has me using shutter-button focussing. I've been trying Pro Capture Low hand held for getting shots of birds landing and leaving. I was having little success until I switched to SBF. I have now dedicated C3 on my EM1ii's mode dial to ProCapL with SBF.
Good meaning friends have been convincing me to use back button focus. I personally feel that this method is not for me. I’m glad to know your reasons for not going back button focus. These reasons you mentioned align well with my thoughts about this subject. Thanks for sharing them.
Good video, Robin, you made your point. Personally, I do love to use back button focus in all photo scenarios, like you said, it has become a second nature. However, I recently bought the Olympus OMD10 mark 2, and the button for back button focus is placed in such an inconvenient position! It's unbelievable!
I use BBAF and photo birds in flight and pickleball often and it works for me. However you have made many valid points. I'll consider them in my other shooting.
I agree with Robin 100%. I've tried BBF but went back to using AF shutter button. I only use BBF when I'm shooting sports and wildlife (birds mostly) as well.
Amen Robin! You've decribed it perfectly. I tried bbf and really tried to like it. But in the end it did not work for me. I am so much happier using the shutter button. This push toward bbf for everyone is nonsense.
I never find the back button is useful for focus, I set my back button to switch on MF. I have the amazing pro capture this and back button have no sens.
I bought a second hand E-M1 Mk2 and wondered why the AF wasn't working - figured out previous owner set it up with BBF. Gave it a try but the rgonomics of seperate buttns to focus and shoot was awful. Thankfully a full reset got it all cleared out and set it the shutter button for the AF and exposure which works perfectly for my birding and fishing photography.
Tanks for this tips. I use backbuttonfocus on my m1 markII just for wildlifefoto,and sport. Now I Wait for my new m10 IV and You gave me tip for the New camera to not use backbutton focus. Thanks agan.
There are times for it and times not for it, night is another one because you don't need to turn your AF off for focus up and shoot tripod shots, it's all a very personal thing and there are times it isn't so good, I just have a custom setting for BBF so I can easily switch it on and off without menu diving.
Great video again. BUT - why do you not use BBF with AFC? This is what I use most frequently and then there is NO delay between BBF and pressing the shutter, as BBF enables continuous AF and it works very well even in most critical situation. BTW also Macro photography, where I highly prefer AFC to get rid of any body movements that could place my subject out of focus till I press the shutter.
Because I don't need C-AF for my shooting. S-AF was quick enough to instantaneously lock focus and capture the shot. I have extremely high hit rates using Olympus.
@@Centauri27 I am using AFC on my EM1.2 all the time, mainly also for erratic subjects like kids moving, and it is very reliable and almost always works. So not sure what you are doing wrong.
Great Vid! Realised I BBF on my Canon 80D but not on my OM-D E-M5ii, both feel natural and I don't think I'm aware of any confusion. The Olympus thumb rest helps.
Since the days of " no auto focus" shooting film, we usually allowed for depth of field to help out and shot manual focus anyway. With this "built-in" history of muscle memory, it's pretty easy to move the focus clutch ring and shoot the same way - focus peaking is my best friend in this case........ You are correct though, it's always up to the individual to get accustomed to any shooting method.....
You have valid points, Robin. I, however, use BBF for professional work and would not trade it for the world. As a portrait photographer, the BBF is very useful as you stay at one distance and do not have to refocus every time you press the shutter. Subject can move within the same distance for different poses, I'm on a tripod. I've recently started using continuous AF and for that, the shutter button AF works great in my opinion. BBF also is very useful for landscapes or if you want to do a panorama or a big file for portraits made with multiple shots. Enjoyed your video and tips. Gonna use them for my old E-M5. Thanks!
@@robinwong, Of course, my friend. It all comes to preference and/or your style of shooting. Fortunately, we can use either one with a switch of a button. Thanks again!
Never seen any use for the BBF, and the reasons are the same as yours. Started my photographing with system cameras in the beginning of 1970’s. And when the working autofocus came to dslrs I learned the SBF , used it since then.
I like setting a button for manual focus if I have to wait for a shot. The auto focus can get me there quick and the manual keep it there. Last night I was taking photos of children at a local carnival riding a small roller coaster. I set focus just after a peak in the ride so I could catch their hair in the air and the excitement in their faces. I didn't want auto focus to think I wanted another area in focus.
Finally somebody says it. Moreover, Olympus mysteriously doesn't allow to remove AF and AE from the shutter button at the same time -- exactly what you want for recomposing and shooting panoramas.
I use BBF for sports action and rarely otherwise. When shooting sports, there is usually a long lens on the camera and my left hand is supporting the weight of the camera and lens, so the right hand is only resting on the camera and using thumb for BFF and index for shutter is no strain at all. With a bigger camera/lens, I shoot with a monopod and the weight isn't really supported by either hand, so the same conditions apply for my right hand. Having said that, I have often used the shutter focus/release option in sports/action because of the much faster focus acquisition of recent cameras. When I got my first EM-5, I tested that fast focus quality in sports situations and was pretty amazed at how well it worked. As you say, it depends on how a person works and what they are shooting. I have not found it particularly useful in studio work, even though I sometimes use it there.
i like BBF, then again i use a camera where the ergonomics are set up for this and it makes a huge difference and i also leave it in C-AF, horse courses just use what works for you
Long before this video, extensive experience accumulated from using multiple systems already told me that the movement of the thumb at the back gets in the way and hinders our getting the shots. Back in the very early days, around the time of F90X and EOS-5... There was this frustration that after you focused on the subject, the focus 'shift' after you recomposed. It was a time when most cameras had only 1 centre focus-point (some had 3, or 5) so it is natural to focus and recompose. Then Canon introduced the famous CF4 (Custom Function 4) which separated the focus from the shutter-release. It was a revelation! Recently I picked up an EOS-1 and intuitively, went straight to CF4 before I shoot. Nowadays people don't talk that way anymore (CF4) and would just say AF-On (or Back-Focus). Fast forward to present day. Especially with Mirrorless cameras, I do not find the AF-On (Back-Focus) essential. The placement of that 'AF-On' button is extremely crucial. Pick up the camera and hold it in the most natural position. If it is not comfortably under the thumb, you'd most likely loose shots you don't even know. Mirrorless changes the way photos are taken..
Your video resonates very much with me. I actually tried BBF for some time (at the advise of my dad) before reverting to normal focusing. Using BBF focusing is tiring for events. But the main reason I moved away from BBF is due to how the Image Stabilization works in Olympus camera. I discovered that the IBIS kicks in the moment focus is locked, and not when exposure is locked. This means that any delay taking the picture after locking focus reduces / negates the benefit of IS. So whenever I need the IS to work (which is rather common), I just use the regular focus half-press.
Yeah, using the regular half-press will help stabilize your image while you are composing it, so it is helping when using longer lenses or shooting extreme close ups.
@@hautehussey That's my own conclusion after many times of usage. You can test it with the following method: 1. Use a fixed prime lens, say Panasonic 25mm f1.7. 2. Find out the slowest comfortable shutter speed you can take with it. For me, it was around 1 second for the Pana 25mm. 3. Focus lock it, using shutter half-press. 4a. Take a picture immediately. 4b. Hold onto the focus lock for 3 second before taking the picture. In all cases, my keeper rate on 4a is significantly higher than 4b. With 4b, after 3 to 5 seconds on focus lock, the camera is working as though there is no IBIS. So this brings me to my point on BBF. The delay using BBF is greater between the focus lock and shutter, and there is the shake introduced by using 2 different buttons as well.
ZD Leong the delay isn’t greater, because you’re using continuous auto focus when you use back button focus, and you don’t have to release the button at all! I think all of the people who have tried it and not liked it are using single AF with it, which negates most of the benefits of it.
Have tried BBF many times but like you it doesn’t suit the way I shoot. Even when I do bird photography I find no advantage. All good points. Thanks for posting.
I thought you were joking when you commented on the other channel. I do a lot of action street photography and just find back button focusing annoying for me personally and agree with everything you said.
After watching this I've made a change on my G9. Your wright about the macro shooting being enhanced by only using one - the index finger for both focus & shutter release which reduces camera movement. Now, in my ' personal menu ' I've added ' Shutter AF ' so that I can quickly turn it on when shooting close-up / macro photos. Otherwise I prefer BBF. Thanks.
I use BBF as I mainly do wildlife photography. Coupled with C-AF focus moves with any camera or subject movement and it works just fine for me. I can press and release to lock focus and then press again as soon as there is any subject movement (like the example you give of waiting for a bird to take flight). And for macro I just keep the button pressed until I've released the shutter. Also the ergonomics of the EM1X puts the AFL button directly under my thumb and right next to the rear dial so there's hardly any movement of the thumb needed either to focus or to change settings. The main advantage for me of separating the shutter release from the AF is that I find BBF more precise than the half press of the shutter button (ie fewer accidental shots!) when reacting to sudden or fast subject movements. As you say it's an individual choice and whatever works best for you.
I use BBF in CAF+tracking for wildlife etc, assigned to # 2 on my back switch, #1 is assigned to S-AF, simple and effective for me, have booth available since normal shutter function is in mode 1.
Everyone has their own way of working, and that's okay. Some of the issues you mention seem to be related to using single-focus rather than continuous-focus. Also, it's possible to press the shutter button while also holding down the focus button, eliminating any delay between the 2. And the only other thing that could be changed is that using a battery grip may make the camera easier to hold. When I learned about Back Button Focus, I was using a Nikon D800, and that camera didn't identify subjects as well as the newer mirrorless cameras. I still use it, because there are times when I don't need to relock focus over and over again, such as when taking multiple exposures of a group of people, and it helps to reduce battery drain.
My first camera was Canon 5D Mark I, bought one used about one and a half year ago. Recently by recomendation from Tony & Chelsy I bought E-M10 Mark II as my travel and walk around camera. On 5D I used BBF all the time, when setting up my E-M10 i quickly qave up on BBF because of ergonomics, those cameras are definitely not designed for BBF. Having said that I love my tiny E-M10 and it's pancake kit lens.
Robin, I agree with you at all. If I tell how do my pictures and how i do or what elements from the camera I use, I cannot be applied in general for all photographers. Every Photographer has its own style, its own way to take pictures. I can not say if I use something from my EM 5 MI is the best and everybody must use in that way. Photography by definition is the way an artist is able to show his/her vision of the world by taking pictures.
I use half press and if I need refocus. Unless light is changing at a very fast pace I don't need back AEL button but if I need it it is there by default. I find no use for a separate focus button which forces me to use twice the muscles in my hands.
Good arguments! I stopped trying BBF years ago, it does not work for me. My thumb has better things to do, i.e. selecting focus points if needed. All the best with using shutter bottom, selecting cont. AF/ single shot AF/ manual focus due to genre, in continuous AF sometimes focus stop button instead of BBF all the time.
My thoughts exactly! Just too many steps, I am a miminalist, I want as little steps as possible before getting the shot. Using another finger drains too much brainpower!
Sorry to resurrect an old video but I wanted your opinion on back button focus which I've been using for years. I have long digits so reaching the button isn't an issue but your points about macro and wide open loss of focus are good and you might have sold me on going back to half shutter focus :D
I think it’s just a matter of the kind of photography it’s been taken. For C-AF mode I use BBF as it’s the best way for birds, animals, sports and aircraft photography. When shotting this kind of subjects you change the way you grab the camera, as you grab mainly the lens, long lens. For the other camera modes I use the traditional button for half-press/full-press and take picture. Nice video, as usual 😉
it is all preference in style of shooting, i do all being said without any issues, no hand cramp for hours, no out of focus on low F number, no shake/blur. Focus & recompose to shot many quickly with sharp photos. Fast moving object towards or away from you, back focus with AFC, takes sharp photos very quickly without need of burst mode. Some camera has half press shutter; that even faster response, all coupled into one better way of shooting fast , accurate & sharp - one back focus, AFC and half press shutter.
I tried it for a while, but it was difficult to get waist level (or lower angle) shots comfortably with back button focus. I sometimes take dog portraits where I have to get low to the ground. Shutter focus allows me to simply use my thumb on the shutter button to focus and shoot when I'm shooting from a very low angle, which is far easier on my wrist.
Some time ago when I came across the BBF video I believe it was Tony N. and I was surprised of how all this time I was taking great images without any problems, while Tony was explaining that I was doing it all wrong. You can do continuous AF I believe and have focus on subject until you press the shutter. I find that my normal AF works perfectly well.
Interesting points really valid points both ways are very good. Just a preference There are a lot of soft people around complaining about how hard it is carrying a camera all day. It hurts my hands, neck etc I suppose we’re not all made the same Thanks for your video
I agree Robin, I've tried back button focus and found it more confusing. I just couldn't get used to it, it is way more intuitive to half press I couldn't find any advantage to back button focus. It was like trying to pat my head and rub my belly at the same time! :)
Robin, this was a wonderful compare to sulanto backbutton Focus makes sense. Only backbutton is for me a no go, your reason is the quick reaction. But Version Nr. 2 from Sulanto was a very Good Solution for me when using a tripod
I do landscape photography a lot and for me bbf works perfect,especially when i’m using nd filters for long exposure shots. For me disable autofocus on the lens everytime before putting on my nd filters on the lens was a pain in the butt,using bbf in that situation is much more easy’er and faster to use. Good video though, i agree that for macro and portraits bbf is not the way to go 🤔😉.
Robin Wong there isn’t a way to set AEL when using back button focus on Olympus cameras, is there? I keep trying and it always triggers focusing instead...
BBF worked very good with DSLRs because of the different AF technology, however with mirrorless keeping AF-C all the time does not work with many lenses because the camera always hunts for focus so you never know whether you acquired the focus or not.
I AGREEEEEEE! The ergonomics of "squeezing" is considered while designing a camera. I find that the back button is not perfectly placed for squeezing against the camera. This issue actually introduces camera shake in those moments that the shot happens quickly and I can't wait to take the picture. It places the "center of pivot" at the wrong position to ensure stability.
I have short thumbs so BBF has never been comfortable to use for me. I tried assigning focus to a front button for a while but that was just adding another step for no good reason so I'm back to half press and go. I could see the advantage of using BBF for shooting birds in amongst tree branches where you don't want the camera to shift focus from the bird to the branches everytime you shoot, so I might use the FBF for that. They each have their uses :)
You are such an intelligent man. Now only I realize why BBF works so fine for me. I shoot mostly still subjects, and mostly with Panasonic camera's. They have poor autofocus, so the risk is too high for me to rely on it. Without using the bbf, i.e. without first seeing what's in focus before I go on to press the shutter release, I get bad surprises with Pana.
Robin, I use BBF. For exposure I have to use center-weight metering. Is there a way to spot meter exposure when the exposure and focus area are not the same place?
Robin. Interesting topic which made me think about how I'm using my Oly cameras - I don't use BBF but how about FBF? From Matti's video I can understand that there are some times when you want a fixed focus, effectively leaving the focus in manual for a series of exposures. On the Panasonic bodies you have to move a selector but with the Oly bodies we can set up the Fn2 button for AF when the camera is in MF. Once the focus is set and the Fn2 button is released focus is locked and we can take as many exposures as we desire. This mode can be set as lever mode 2. Lever mode 1 can be your usual AF set-up. The only hassle with this is that in MF the AF framing indicator is not shown until you achieve AF lock. Y
I do a lot of wildlife photography but I still don't like back button focusing. Instead I'll use the back button to lock focus if I don't want the AF engaging. Normally I want it to refocus between shots because I'm trying to focus on an animal's eye and small subject movements or focusing errors can ruin the fixed focus shot.
My first thought was like "WHATT!?!?!?!?" 😱 But after watching the entire video I see what you mean, Robin. Valid points to think about 👍
No worries, I am not against BBF, it just does not work for me.
@@robinwong valid arguments for your style of photography and your reasons why you do not use it are very fairly put. I do use bbf but have no argument with the reasons some (many?) photogs. do not use it.
There is another big reason which you did not even mention: sometimes I give my camera to another person (like my wife or even a stranger) to make a photo from me (or me and my wife). In such situations those people are not used to your camera at all; just imagine to explain them that the focusing is working completely different and they have to push a separate button...
I don't share my camera! Don't touch it!
Exactly!! I ran into that problem so often. I found that setting the camera to intelligent auto in that case does revert to shutter AF. But then it overrides any manual settings you may have set.
@@robinwong but if you want a photo of yourself when out and about you HAVE to let someone touch your camera. I quite often shoot people with a promise to send them the shot. Sometimes they return the favour. Last time this happened, the person was using a low end Canon DSLR in JPEG mode and while the shot was nicely framed, the sky was totally blown out. I should have handed over my wonderful E-M1 ii which was already adjusted for the cloudy/bright sky
Your points are valid; to each their own.
Having said that, following are reasons I use BBF exclusively:
1. My camera's AF sucks... slow and struggling
2. I do a lot of AF-lock and re-compose types of photos
3. I do a lot of AF-lock, compose, then wait for the right moment types of photos
4. I don't shoot in wide aperture most of the times
5. My camera's AF sucks... yes, it's that bad that I need to say it twice.
Oh, how I miss the snap focus feature of Ricoh GR series.
Ah but most cameras these days have extremely fast AF, so focusing should not an issue.
Firstly I laughed, having watched Matti's video yesterday. It is fun to have both points of view. For me, I have tried back button focussing but so far I haven't warmed to it. Focus locking is possible without back button focussing, maybe that is the compromise as you can do that just when you need it.
Matti is an amazing friend, I learned so much from him. I just have to make this response video. I hope I made it clear enough that there is no right and wrong, just personal preferences.
@@robinwong of course, it is fun to hear from both of you
Most of the commenters and the creator are missing a few things/points.
1) I use it for portraits too and non-moving subjects I do not shoot sports or wildlife. If I pose a group or family for a portrait, I place the focus where I want it and then with the camera in a tripod I can shoot away and work on getting good expressions instead of making sure I get focus each time
2) regarding compromising handling of the camera, your left hand should be holding the weight of it not your right. The right hand is for button pushing not supporting the camera
3) night photography this is essential, especially when doing things like light painting in pitch dark conditions. The camera will not be able to focus.
4) macro, you can use BBF and AF-C or continuous focus. That would work.
5) I shoot wide opened too. Don't have a problem using BBF for that either.
Same here
I've tried back button focus countless times on all manner of cameras as people constantly keep going on about how amazing it is, I don't like it at all! For action shots, I find it far more helpful to leave the camera in servo AF and assign a button to turn the AF off when held down if I really need it. Works a treat for me and far better than back button focus ever did.
Thanks for sharing your experience, glad that we are on the same page.
I moved from Canon 7D to Olympus OM-1 Mark 1 - and when i first got it, I was all about setting up BBF but after a while, i realized that the experience on that smaller body was not comfortable at all, like you mentioned. With more advanced AI auto focus, I think BBF’s days are numbered. The points you make about the comfortable grip, and delay between are def noticed coming from a full size DSLR with APS-C sensors. The canon had the button right under the thumb and you could hit it without breaking your grip. So I agree with your reasons and I’m realizing the same thing.
I'm so glad you categorized the various types of shooting styles and photography in making up your mind about BBF. Thank you for this excellent video!
I like this! Although I have used bbf for many years, this made me think it over again. In some situations I'm in trouble with bbf. It is always good to question things you do for time to time.
Yeah, there is no right and wrong. I am not denying BBF is good, just that it is not suitable for me.
I started off drinking the bbf cool aid when I got my first Nikon dslr. Went to shoot at an aquarium over a year ago & left home with a monster cramp! Over half of my shots came out blurry. Your video makes complete sense. Now I shoot exclusively with shutter button focus & Aputure Priority. Gotta say ive had alot more keepers since then! Amazing how Technique can make all the difference in not only photography but in any other profession like boxing, arts, race car driving & cooking food. Thanks for sharing your experiences! How you extend your arms & hands can act like a gimbal! Anytime you release your firm grip slow shutter speeds can amplify those slight twitches. OIS/IBIS can help but maintaining grip goes along way to increase your keeper rate!
Great job, Robin. I learn a great deal from both you and Joe Edelman, both of you Olympus Visionaries. I shoot Canon, but both of you make your teaching applicable to all photographers
Thanks for the compliments, appreciate it much. Will do more similar videos surely.
Dear Robin, i completely agree with you, since i heard about the BBF technique i´ve trying to catch what was all the hype about, cause i didn´t see a real advantage in using that technique, even so after hearing the explanations from some of its users, but you have now listed in full detail all my concerns about it in your usual clear ways. Thanks
Thanks for agreeing, and show of support!
Thanks Robin for a well thought out and helpful video! I really appreciate your approach to photography and to sharing your insights and perspectives. You are very respectful of other options and the choices that other photographers make. I am grateful for that! I have never used BBF and I don't see a need to for the kind of photography that I do...mainly street. I also enjoy Matti Sulanto's channel and have also learned a lot from him. Please keep up the good work!
Matti is an amazing friend, and super talented photographer. I think it is crucial to be always respectful in what we do! Thanks for the kind words.
I actually use both methods depending on what I'm shooting. For wildlife I find back button really helps. For landscape, architecture, street, I use normal shutter. Both modes programmed as custom on my g9 so easy to flip between.
yeah choose the method that works best for you. no right or wrong.
Wow! Excellent discussion with compelling points. I have heard many photographers claim that they use BBF “all the time,” and I think your points explain why this is unnecessary or even wise. I have found that I use the shutter focus most of the time ... until I’m in a situation where BBF works better. There is no reason to think there is only one way. Thanks for your very positively positioned “opposing” points.
No reason to use BBF indeed!
I'm 100% with you Robin. I do mostly landscape photography and more often than not I use a remote to trigger the shutter. I have disabled that button completely.
Thanks!
Class act. Well reasoned. Clearly explained. Learned a lot. Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words!
Hi Robin.
Thank you for your perspective, very interesting.
My main benefit from BBF is when I have constant auto focus switched on. So when my thumb is held on the BBF button, then the camera focus is adjusting until I’m ready to shoot. That’s useful when my subject is moving. Once I remove my thumb, then the focus locks and that saves me re-focussing when my subject is static and I want several shots.
BBF is easy to use on EM2i but it is really awkward on my EM10iii. The programmable button is not in an optimum position.
A disadvantage of BBF you can add to your list, is when you hand your camera to a friend and have to explain how to focus. That’s something I dislike, so much so, that I may set up my EM10iii without BBF, for that reason alone.
Thanks for sharing your experience, and I appreciate that you mention the difference between E-m1 Mark II and E-M10 Mark III.
About sharing camera... I don't usually share mine! Don't touch my camera!
Hey Robin. Finally a pro respected photographer who doesn’t use back button focus. I tried it many times and hated back button focus. My first point was why use two triggers for one shot. And secondly back button focus just never felt right. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Thanks, and honestly, it does not matter whether we use BBF or not. We use what works best, and for me, not BBF
Also I find both your and Mattie's points absolutely valid.
I have shutter button focus for all my standard modes and back button for my custom ones. That way I can quickly choose which one I need depending on the situation.
Don't use BBF that often though.
Hi Robin, exactly the same for me. Your friend Matti said in some cases it is not necessary that the camera focuses every time you press the shutter button. This is absolutely right. On the e-m1 it is possible to keep the shutter Button half pressed between the shots and maintain the focus you achieved before the first shot. I love this feature so much and I use it very often. For sure other Olympus cameras are also able to do it. It needs only a little practice to perform it, and for me it makes bbf completely obsolete. Btw, your Videos are very informative, and I love Your pictures, they are stunning. Thank you.
Having used back button focus on my DSLR I adopted it for the EM1 mk ii I purchased. Not sure if it’s the size of the Olympus but I did find that as mentioned by Robin that for me it made the camera less stable and more prone to unnecessary movement. Especially for close up shots. So, I am going to revert back to using the shutter release button for focus to see how it works.
Robin, thank you for your point of view. A while back I started using back button focus on my EM1.2 and after a while I liked it. However I also use a EM5.2 and BBF does not work for that camera, so I end up going back and forth depending on the camera I am using. After your explanation of the way you use yours I may go back to just using the shutter button for both functions on both cameras. It will likely be easier and less confusing.
You are completely right . Hi Robin
Thanks !
I found BBF a pain for trying to shoot moving targets. When I'm using the 40-150 pro lens, I set the L-Fn button for focus lock when needed.
We are on the same page
Robin thank you for the video, I agree with your observations to a very large extent. I have over the years alternated from BBF to shutter focus and I have decided shutter focus and exposure is more practicable. At the point around 6min 20 sec you mention a delay between focus and pressing the shutter, I shoot mainly wildlife including macro and for 90% for the time I use Continuous AF, the reason being even when you are still or the subject is still one is almost inevitably not! So if you if you did use BBF and then pressed the shutter you would be in focus, I always pressed BBF before the shutter and kept it pressed as I pressed the shutter, the two actions can be simultaneous, therefore the likelihood of a correctly focused image is highest.
Excellent arguments, Robin.
I use BBF most of the time for the work I do, and it works very well for me. Most of the time though, I have a pretty big lens on my camera (typically the 4/3 35-100 f2), and I don’t rely on supporting the camera as much with my right hand. That frees up my thumb significantly. I do a lot of theatrical production photography, and that means shooting close to wide open most of the time. The AF that the camera selects is often counter to what I want, and BBF enables me to choose better, then recompose.
I got close to 750 shots over a session of 90 minutes the other night, and found focus problems in less that 10% of them using BBF, much better than the 25-30% I get when I don’t use it. There are times when it isn’t appropriate at all, and it is a simple adjustment to not use BBF, but I do use it most of the time when I am using S-AF. I do use a lot of C-AF when shooting wildlife and birds, so it is easy for me to adapt to the situation.
Good that BBF works better for you, the end results matter.
This was very well explained Robin.
Cheers
Good to see some fun interaction with other you tubers about photography, I enjoy watching your channel as well as Matti's.
I tried it once to see what it was about but it did not work for me. But one of my friends swears by it.
Yeah a lot of people swear by it. BBF does not work for me too.
I hear you Robin, in the 15 years that i have involved in digital photography and shooting many different subjects i have never used back button focusing for many of the same reasons you have spoke about.
Great video Robin, I have been using BBF and do like it even though I don't at times, I'll now switch back to normal and see how that goes, nice to have that option
yes it is always good to have options
I have found that back button focusing works better with certain cameras than others. I never use it with mirrorless cameras, but with some dslrs like Canon 5D III and Pentax K1 I think it works well, both ergonomically and from a results point of view. But since it depends a lot on what you are shooting, it is good to set it to one of the custom settings on the mode dial so you can quickly turn it on or off. Thank you for another great video!
Thanks, and yes, choose the method that works for you.
I agree - I have tried Back Button Focus several times over the years but it just seemed too awkward. I use focus and recomposes when needed!
Exactly, that was what I tried to say, BBF is not for every one.
Thanks Robin for explaining where back button focusing does not work. It is extremely important for people like me who are trying to improve taking photographing, to hear and know where to use and where not to use different focussing systems. Thanks for the Vedio
No worries, I do my best to share as much as I can!
I came here after seeing your comment on Matti's video! Cool to see you actually did it!
i will agree with you on this. There may be a few cases where BBF would be a benefit, but not for my shooting styles. I do landscapes, architecture, and this last year really got into street photography -- all of which work best for me using the shutter button for focus.
I understand what you are saying and I can see your point on your camera. Fortunately on my camera I don't have to move the position of my thumb with BBF on or off. My grip is the same as with the traditional focus Like others have mention I use it in continuous focus and lift the tip of my thumb a millimeter if I want to simulate single focus. I actually find I'm more stable taking shots as I don't have to feel and wait for the spot between getting focus and then fully pressing the shutter button to take the shot. I have focus already locked iin and it is one smooth motion to activate the shutter. Pausing on the shutter button to acquire focus causes me to apply uneven pressure to the camera body during a shot leading to more camera motion. The ergonomics of my camera seem to be better suited for BBF focusing. I'll have to keep this in mind if I move to another camera body. I don't want to give BBF up! Like you said what works for you. Great video!
Sure, if BBF works for you, continue using it. As long as you don't look at other photographers who don't use it like they are alien or something, it is fine.
Hi Robin, interesting and valid points you bring up. I personally like back button focus. This brings up the next question: how do you focus? Do you use focus-re compose or do you move the focus point every time? How does that work for you in a 'fast' environment like street or wedding? I used to move the focus point around on my em5 with the 4 way d-pad but as I kept moving the focus point around accidentally by having the camera over my shoulder I have disabled the dpad. I had a lot of missed shots due to this. That lead to using the middle focus point and recompose, and finally back button focus. I found going into the super control panel and moving the focus point also a tedious task, so that's why I ended up with single point and back button focus
I move the focusing point every single time. I have a shortcut button to recenter the AF point quickly if needed. I don't believe in focus and recompose, that inroduces too much focusing error since I shoot wide open and close up shots a lot.
You are SO RIGHT! Thanx! I do it so also!
Cheers
My preference is BBF but recently I have found a wildlife scenario that has me using shutter-button focussing. I've been trying Pro Capture Low hand held for getting shots of birds landing and leaving. I was having little success until I switched to SBF. I have now dedicated C3 on my EM1ii's mode dial to ProCapL with SBF.
Good meaning friends have been convincing me to use back button focus. I personally feel that this method is not for me. I’m glad to know your reasons for not going back button focus. These reasons you mentioned align well with my thoughts about this subject. Thanks for sharing them.
Thanks for voicing up and yes, sometimes it is not for some people! So we decide what works best for us.
Good video, Robin, you made your point. Personally, I do love to use back button focus in all photo scenarios, like you said, it has become a second nature. However, I recently bought the Olympus OMD10 mark 2, and the button for back button focus is placed in such an inconvenient position! It's unbelievable!
that camera is not designed to work with BBF i guess.
I find the button placement convenient and comfortable on the em10 mark ii. It's a personal thing I guess.
The same for me. I'm very happy with BBF with my Canon, but with my Omd 10 mk II I don't feel confortable
I use BBAF and photo birds in flight and pickleball often and it works for me. However you have made many valid points. I'll consider them in my other shooting.
Good points, i agree.
Its not for everyone..
I agree with Robin 100%. I've tried BBF but went back to using AF shutter button. I only use BBF when I'm shooting sports and wildlife (birds mostly) as well.
Thanks for agreeing!
That was really fast😅
I did not go out at all. That was the trick.
You guys are great. I always learn so much from both of you!
Thanks everyone, appreciate the kind words.
Amen Robin! You've decribed it perfectly. I tried bbf and really tried to like it. But in the end it did not work for me. I am so much happier using the shutter button. This push toward bbf for everyone is nonsense.
Exactly, I hope people can be more open minded when it comes to shooting styles and techniques.
made exactly same experience… used back button focus for a while and switched back to normal use for close to all scenarios! (own a E1 MII)
I never find the back button is useful for focus, I set my back button to switch on MF. I have the amazing pro capture this and back button have no sens.
That makes sense, switching to MF is a good alternative
Yes, I switch to MF too. Especially if I'm using a tripod and my subject is crossing a fixed point.
@@mucklark6943 yes if you focus on the perfect subject and you don't want change it or refocus. Useful
I bought a second hand E-M1 Mk2 and wondered why the AF wasn't working - figured out previous owner set it up with BBF. Gave it a try but the rgonomics of seperate buttns to focus and shoot was awful. Thankfully a full reset got it all cleared out and set it the shutter button for the AF and exposure which works perfectly for my birding and fishing photography.
Tanks for this tips. I use backbuttonfocus on my m1 markII just for wildlifefoto,and sport. Now I Wait for my new m10 IV and You gave me tip for the New camera to not use backbutton focus. Thanks agan.
I love watching your video!
You've clearly explained it and I need no convincing 👍🏻
Thanks!
There are times for it and times not for it, night is another one because you don't need to turn your AF off for focus up and shoot tripod shots, it's all a very personal thing and there are times it isn't so good, I just have a custom setting for BBF so I can easily switch it on and off without menu diving.
Yeap, that was what I tried to say, it is a preference, and we may choose what works best!
Great video again.
BUT - why do you not use BBF with AFC? This is what I use most frequently and then there is NO delay between BBF and pressing the shutter, as BBF enables continuous AF and it works very well even in most critical situation. BTW also Macro photography, where I highly prefer AFC to get rid of any body movements that could place my subject out of focus till I press the shutter.
Because I don't need C-AF for my shooting. S-AF was quick enough to instantaneously lock focus and capture the shot. I have extremely high hit rates using Olympus.
@@robinwong I hear you but if you tried AFC you would find this works even better :-)
I find that the AFC on my Olympus camera was not reliable nor quick enough to use as a replacement for AFS. Maybe the newer models might be.
@@Centauri27 I am using AFC on my EM1.2 all the time, mainly also for erratic subjects like kids moving, and it is very reliable and almost always works. So not sure what you are doing wrong.
@Peter Tomsu: What I am doing “wrong” is using the E-M5 Mk I, where C-AF is rather slow and unreliable... ;-D
Great Vid! Realised I BBF on my Canon 80D but not on my OM-D E-M5ii, both feel natural and I don't think I'm aware of any confusion. The Olympus thumb rest helps.
Since the days of " no auto focus" shooting film, we usually allowed for depth of field to help out and shot manual focus anyway. With this "built-in" history of muscle memory, it's pretty easy to move the focus clutch ring and shoot the same way - focus peaking is my best friend in this case........ You are correct though, it's always up to the individual to get accustomed to any shooting method.....
Yeah, we choose what works for us best!
You have valid points, Robin. I, however, use BBF for professional work and would not trade it for the world. As a portrait photographer, the BBF is very useful as you stay at one distance and do not have to refocus every time you press the shutter. Subject can move within the same distance for different poses, I'm on a tripod. I've recently started using continuous AF and for that, the shutter button AF works great in my opinion. BBF also is very useful for landscapes or if you want to do a panorama or a big file for portraits made with multiple shots.
Enjoyed your video and tips. Gonna use them for my old E-M5. Thanks!
Good that you find the BBF working well for you. I cannot say the same for myself.
@@robinwong, Of course, my friend. It all comes to preference and/or your style of shooting. Fortunately, we can use either one with a switch of a button. Thanks again!
I'd say manual focus for landscapes is the best.
Never seen any use for the BBF, and the reasons are the same as yours. Started my photographing with system cameras in the beginning of 1970’s.
And when the working autofocus came to dslrs I learned the SBF , used it since then.
Glad you use the shutter button too and I am not alone in this.
I like setting a button for manual focus if I have to wait for a shot. The auto focus can get me there quick and the manual keep it there. Last night I was taking photos of children at a local carnival riding a small roller coaster. I set focus just after a peak in the ride so I could catch their hair in the air and the excitement in their faces. I didn't want auto focus to think I wanted another area in focus.
Finally somebody says it. Moreover, Olympus mysteriously doesn't allow to remove AF and AE from the shutter button at the same time -- exactly what you want for recomposing and shooting panoramas.
I use BBF for sports action and rarely otherwise. When shooting sports, there is usually a long lens on the camera and my left hand is supporting the weight of the camera and lens, so the right hand is only resting on the camera and using thumb for BFF and index for shutter is no strain at all. With a bigger camera/lens, I shoot with a monopod and the weight isn't really supported by either hand, so the same conditions apply for my right hand. Having said that, I have often used the shutter focus/release option in sports/action because of the much faster focus acquisition of recent cameras. When I got my first EM-5, I tested that fast focus quality in sports situations and was pretty amazed at how well it worked. As you say, it depends on how a person works and what they are shooting. I have not found it particularly useful in studio work, even though I sometimes use it there.
Yeah, it is important to test it out and see if it suits your shooting style. For me BBF just does not work.
i like BBF, then again i use a camera where the ergonomics are set up for this and it makes a huge difference and i also leave it in C-AF, horse courses just use what works for you
Good that it works for you!
And the Olympus doesn't!
Long before this video, extensive experience accumulated from using multiple systems already told me that the movement of the thumb at the back gets in the way and hinders our getting the shots.
Back in the very early days, around the time of F90X and EOS-5... There was this frustration that after you focused on the subject, the focus 'shift' after you recomposed. It was a time when most cameras had only 1 centre focus-point (some had 3, or 5) so it is natural to focus and recompose. Then Canon introduced the famous CF4 (Custom Function 4) which separated the focus from the shutter-release. It was a revelation! Recently I picked up an EOS-1 and intuitively, went straight to CF4 before I shoot. Nowadays people don't talk that way anymore (CF4) and would just say AF-On (or Back-Focus).
Fast forward to present day. Especially with Mirrorless cameras, I do not find the AF-On (Back-Focus) essential. The placement of that 'AF-On' button is extremely crucial. Pick up the camera and hold it in the most natural position. If it is not comfortably under the thumb, you'd most likely loose shots you don't even know.
Mirrorless changes the way photos are taken..
Totally same for me Robin. Thanks
Cheers
Your video resonates very much with me. I actually tried BBF for some time (at the advise of my dad) before reverting to normal focusing. Using BBF focusing is tiring for events.
But the main reason I moved away from BBF is due to how the Image Stabilization works in Olympus camera. I discovered that the IBIS kicks in the moment focus is locked, and not when exposure is locked. This means that any delay taking the picture after locking focus reduces / negates the benefit of IS. So whenever I need the IS to work (which is rather common), I just use the regular focus half-press.
Yeah, using the regular half-press will help stabilize your image while you are composing it, so it is helping when using longer lenses or shooting extreme close ups.
ZD Leong it doesn’t make any sense that iBIS would work like that. I would research that theory.
@@hautehussey That's my own conclusion after many times of usage. You can test it with the following method:
1. Use a fixed prime lens, say Panasonic 25mm f1.7.
2. Find out the slowest comfortable shutter speed you can take with it. For me, it was around 1 second for the Pana 25mm.
3. Focus lock it, using shutter half-press.
4a. Take a picture immediately.
4b. Hold onto the focus lock for 3 second before taking the picture.
In all cases, my keeper rate on 4a is significantly higher than 4b. With 4b, after 3 to 5 seconds on focus lock, the camera is working as though there is no IBIS.
So this brings me to my point on BBF. The delay using BBF is greater between the focus lock and shutter, and there is the shake introduced by using 2 different buttons as well.
ZD Leong the delay isn’t greater, because you’re using continuous auto focus when you use back button focus, and you don’t have to release the button at all! I think all of the people who have tried it and not liked it are using single AF with it, which negates most of the benefits of it.
Excellent vlog...! Variety in shooting styles is a key creative ingredient...!
Exactly, we choose and pick what works for us
Have tried BBF many times but like you it doesn’t suit the way I shoot.
Even when I do bird photography I find no advantage.
All good points. Thanks for posting.
Likewise. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I thought you were joking when you commented on the other channel.
I do a lot of action street photography and just find back button focusing annoying for me personally and agree with everything you said.
I seldom joke, because I do want people to take me seriously. Glad that we are on the same page about BBF.
After watching this I've made a change on my G9. Your wright about the macro shooting being enhanced by only using one - the index finger for both focus & shutter release which reduces camera movement. Now, in my ' personal menu ' I've added ' Shutter AF ' so that I can quickly turn it on when shooting close-up / macro photos. Otherwise I prefer BBF. Thanks.
I use BBF as I mainly do wildlife photography. Coupled with C-AF focus moves with any camera or subject movement and it works just fine for me. I can press and release to lock focus and then press again as soon as there is any subject movement (like the example you give of waiting for a bird to take flight). And for macro I just keep the button pressed until I've released the shutter. Also the ergonomics of the EM1X puts the AFL button directly under my thumb and right next to the rear dial so there's hardly any movement of the thumb needed either to focus or to change settings. The main advantage for me of separating the shutter release from the AF is that I find BBF more precise than the half press of the shutter button (ie fewer accidental shots!) when reacting to sudden or fast subject movements. As you say it's an individual choice and whatever works best for you.
Sure, if the BBF works well for you, keep using it
I use BBF in CAF+tracking for wildlife etc, assigned to # 2 on my back switch, #1 is assigned to S-AF, simple and effective for me, have booth available since normal shutter function is in mode 1.
Good that it works for you. I don't shoot wildlife.
Everyone has their own way of working, and that's okay. Some of the issues you mention seem to be related to using single-focus rather than continuous-focus. Also, it's possible to press the shutter button while also holding down the focus button, eliminating any delay between the 2. And the only other thing that could be changed is that using a battery grip may make the camera easier to hold. When I learned about Back Button Focus, I was using a Nikon D800, and that camera didn't identify subjects as well as the newer mirrorless cameras. I still use it, because there are times when I don't need to relock focus over and over again, such as when taking multiple exposures of a group of people, and it helps to reduce battery drain.
My first camera was Canon 5D Mark I, bought one used about one and a half year ago. Recently by recomendation from Tony & Chelsy I bought E-M10 Mark II as my travel and walk around camera. On 5D I used BBF all the time, when setting up my E-M10 i quickly qave up on BBF because of ergonomics, those cameras are definitely not designed for BBF. Having said that I love my tiny E-M10 and it's pancake kit lens.
Robin, I agree with you at all. If I tell how do my pictures and how i do or what elements from the camera I use, I cannot be applied in general for all photographers. Every Photographer has its own style, its own way to take pictures. I can not say if I use something from my EM 5 MI is the best and everybody must use in that way. Photography by definition is the way an artist is able to show his/her vision of the world by taking pictures.
Exactly, we are all different.
I use half press and if I need refocus. Unless light is changing at a very fast pace I don't need back AEL button but if I need it it is there by default. I find no use for a separate focus button which forces me to use twice the muscles in my hands.
Yeah I like to keep things simple too.
Good arguments!
I stopped trying BBF years ago, it does not work for me.
My thumb has better things to do, i.e. selecting focus points if needed.
All the best with using shutter bottom, selecting cont. AF/ single shot AF/ manual focus due to genre, in continuous AF sometimes focus stop button instead of BBF all the time.
My thoughts exactly! Just too many steps, I am a miminalist, I want as little steps as possible before getting the shot. Using another finger drains too much brainpower!
Sorry to resurrect an old video but I wanted your opinion on back button focus which I've been using for years. I have long digits so reaching the button isn't an issue but your points about macro and wide open loss of focus are good and you might have sold me on going back to half shutter focus :D
I totally agree.The same situation with street photography.
Thanks! Glad you share similar views.
In the left corner, Matti and in the right corner Robin, truly an epic battle of the giants...;-)
then we both sit down in the middle of the ring and have coffee.
I think it’s just a matter of the kind of photography it’s been taken. For C-AF mode I use BBF as it’s the best way for birds, animals, sports and aircraft photography. When shotting this kind of subjects you change the way you grab the camera, as you grab mainly the lens, long lens. For the other camera modes I use the traditional button for half-press/full-press and take picture.
Nice video, as usual 😉
Thanks, it is true, the method you choose is up to you!
Carlos DL but if you use BBF, you can simply treat it like single mode just by releasing the button! It’s the best of both worlds!
it is all preference in style of shooting, i do all being said without any issues, no hand cramp for hours, no out of focus on low F number, no shake/blur. Focus & recompose to shot many quickly with sharp photos. Fast moving object towards or away from you, back focus with AFC, takes sharp photos very quickly without need of burst mode. Some camera has half press shutter; that even faster response, all coupled into one better way of shooting fast , accurate & sharp - one back focus, AFC and half press shutter.
I tried it for a while, but it was difficult to get waist level (or lower angle) shots comfortably with back button focus. I sometimes take dog portraits where I have to get low to the ground. Shutter focus allows me to simply use my thumb on the shutter button to focus and shoot when I'm shooting from a very low angle, which is far easier on my wrist.
That is another valid reason that I missed out in the video. Thanks for adding in.
I don't use back button for the simple reason it does not work effectively with manual lenses.
LOL!!!; PERFECT
Some time ago when I came across the BBF video I believe it was Tony N. and I was surprised of how all this time I was taking great images without any problems, while Tony was explaining that I was doing it all wrong.
You can do continuous AF I believe and have focus on subject until you press the shutter. I find that my normal AF works perfectly well.
I agree with you, using the shutter button to do all can yield amazing results as well.
@@TL-xw6fh their arrogance like "I'm a pro, so I know better than any of you" and complete lack of humor keeps me away from N. family.
Interesting points really valid points both ways are very good. Just a preference
There are a lot of soft people around complaining about how hard it is carrying a camera all day. It hurts my hands, neck etc
I suppose we’re not all made the same
Thanks for your video
Thanks, and yes it is a preference!
I agree Robin, I've tried back button focus and found it more confusing. I just couldn't get used to it, it is way more intuitive to half press I couldn't find any advantage to back button focus. It was like trying to pat my head and rub my belly at the same time! :)
Oh my, what a way to describe BBF, but yes, thanks for agreeing and I am glad I am not alone
Robin, this was a wonderful compare to sulanto backbutton Focus makes sense.
Only backbutton is for me a no go, your reason is the quick reaction.
But Version Nr. 2 from Sulanto was a very Good Solution for me when using a tripod
Pick and choose the technique that works best for you!
I do landscape photography a lot and for me bbf works perfect,especially when i’m using nd filters for long exposure shots. For me disable autofocus on the lens everytime before putting on my nd filters on the lens was a pain in the butt,using bbf in that situation is much more easy’er and faster to use. Good video though, i agree that for macro and portraits bbf is not the way to go 🤔😉.
I really like back button focus. I also have the fn1 button, inside the grip, next to my finger for exposure lock. Works like a charm for me.
Good that it works for you.
Robin Wong there isn’t a way to set AEL when using back button focus on Olympus cameras, is there? I keep trying and it always triggers focusing instead...
BBF worked very good with DSLRs because of the different AF technology, however with mirrorless keeping AF-C all the time does not work with many lenses because the camera always hunts for focus so you never know whether you acquired the focus or not.
C-AF on Olympus newer cameras with Phase Detect have been wonderful to work with. I still see no need for BBF, the sbutter button is good enough
I AGREEEEEEE! The ergonomics of "squeezing" is considered while designing a camera. I find that the back button is not perfectly placed for squeezing against the camera. This issue actually introduces camera shake in those moments that the shot happens quickly and I can't wait to take the picture. It places the "center of pivot" at the wrong position to ensure stability.
I have short thumbs so BBF has never been comfortable to use for me. I tried assigning focus to a front button for a while but that was just adding another step for no good reason so I'm back to half press and go. I could see the advantage of using BBF for shooting birds in amongst tree branches where you don't want the camera to shift focus from the bird to the branches everytime you shoot, so I might use the FBF for that. They each have their uses :)
Yeap there is no right and wrong, just choose the method that works.
Very well explanation. 👍😉👍
Thanks!
with sony a7 you can have it all. shutter button focus, back button with constant, d-pad with lock tracking and AEL button with direct manual focus.
1/18/2022 thank you for sharing this information
You are such an intelligent man. Now only I realize why BBF works so fine for me. I shoot mostly still subjects, and mostly with Panasonic camera's. They have poor autofocus, so the risk is too high for me to rely on it. Without using the bbf, i.e. without first seeing what's in focus before I go on to press the shutter release, I get bad surprises with Pana.
Robin, I use BBF. For exposure I have to use center-weight metering. Is there a way to spot meter exposure when the exposure and focus area are not the same place?
Robin. Interesting topic which made me think about how I'm using my Oly cameras - I don't use BBF but how about FBF? From Matti's video I can understand that there are some times when you want a fixed focus, effectively leaving the focus in manual for a series of exposures. On the Panasonic bodies you have to move a selector but with the Oly bodies we can set up the Fn2 button for AF when the camera is in MF. Once the focus is set and the Fn2 button is released focus is locked and we can take as many exposures as we desire. This mode can be set as lever mode 2. Lever mode 1 can be your usual AF set-up. The only hassle with this is that in MF the AF framing indicator is not shown until you achieve AF lock. Y
Of course you may customize the camera to work the way you want it to. I keep things simple. One button to do it all.
I do a lot of wildlife photography but I still don't like back button focusing. Instead I'll use the back button to lock focus if I don't want the AF engaging. Normally I want it to refocus between shots because I'm trying to focus on an animal's eye and small subject movements or focusing errors can ruin the fixed focus shot.
Thanks for sharing, interesting to find a wildlife photographer not using BBF!