Should I Save, Invest or Pay Off Debt? | Budgeting | Aja Dang
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- čas přidán 28. 04. 2021
- Hi everyone!
I'm Aja Dang and this video is about how to choose between savings, investing or paying off debt.
There's a lot of people, with a lot of different opinions about what you should do with your money. This video is a general overview about how *I chose to become financially independent but also other financial thoughts about what you should do.
As a general rule: People suggest saving up an emergency fund, then paying off debt then investing BUT the specifics of those choices vary significantly.
I try to not be super pushy about what you SHOULD do with your money because I think you all are smart enough to make your own decisions but you know what I did, why I did it and why I believe that's the easiest way to achieve financial goals.
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$1k as a single woman in a city would've had me sweating.😓🙈
Had to do $4k as my starter emergency fund and *PAID OFF 20k* of debt so far (which is 60% of my total) in the last 8 months.💃
Seriously running out of steam, but these videos keep me motivated.🙌🦋
Congratulations, you've done amazing!!
killing it!!! you're almost there!!
Thank youuuu❤
Don’t give upppppp
Yeahhh! Keep going! You can do it!
I’ve paid off about $70k of debt so far. I have $40k to go!
Keep going. You're doing amazing🌼
congrats!!!!
Wow! Great job! Keep on going you’re almost there 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Doing great! Almost there
That's awesome! Keep going, you're almost there!
As silly as it is, the line "I trust you to do what's best for you [and your finances]" is something that I haven't heard as a young woman. So thank you 🥰
I totally agree with the initial emergency fund being whatever makes you feel comfortable. As a one income family with three young boys, $1k made us so anxious. Instead we felt more comfortable saving $10k then tackled our debt. We followed the avalanche method for paying off our debt WHILE investing in retirement. Within a year we were able to pay off all our debt and get comfortable the entire time because we did what we felt comfortable with.
Talking about the baby emergency fund is so validating. I’ve been struggling & feeling so bad about not meeting my ideal emergency fund goals so now I’m gonna focus head on paying off my debt!
My preference is to keep investing even just a little bit while paying off debt. The cost of not investing can be high over the long-term.
Same. I always made sure I had some sort of auto-investing going on like 401K contributions first and then budgeting based on what my true take home was. I didn't want to become so focused on my present issues that I set myself for future problems like waiting too long to save for retirement.
I save 50% of my income towards investing. Saving to invest has been my smartest move so far....
Nice, I agree with you on that.100%
Hold solid investments. It creates a better retirement life. I'm planning towards it!
@@yvonneerik2510 Yeah great💪
keep it going ✨
Hey I'm 42 single Mom. I do a normal 9-5 job I've saved up some money from pay. Can investing get an extra income stream ??
@@catherinemax6261 Yeah I make an extra $2k weekly from my investment package.
You just need to play your cards right and be consistent towards it!
The whole $1,000 emergency fund is suggested because its said that more than 70% of Americans don't even have THAT much saved away. 1000 is a lot for someone that's never even had that much saved. But like everything in life do what works for you
I agree and am not putting that down as an option.
@@AjaDang Oh I know love, just for those that still have questions about it
This video couldn’t have come at a better time! Graduating at the end of May and am freaking out with the drastic financial changes.
theskimm is HANDSDOWN THE BEST!!! I read their newsletter RELIGIOUSLY
Exactly what I needed today! Thank you for being so open about money Aja ❤️♥️❤️♥️❤️♥️
I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your videos. If it weren’t for you I would probably still have poor money habits and keeping my credit card maxed out. I’ve actually paid off every credit card, and use them properly and responsibly now, I’ve paid off one of my student loans, and second one will be paid by the end of this summer and am paying off my car a year early ☺️ I grew up being raised by my grandparents who would just spoil me and take me shopping all the time and I had the worst concept of money. I got myself into a lot of financial trouble and was embarrassing. I also made the mistake of living at home rent free for 6 years and not saving a dime... 😳 it’s such a struggle to pay off debt and save when you have adult bills. I also probably wouldn’t have mentally been able to get through this pandemic (having to be stressed about money) if it weren’t for your videos. So thank you so much for your content 🙏🏻
Love ❤️ this !!
Please keep doing these financial videos !! You have come so far !!
I’ve watched you from the very beginning since you started paying off your debt and all those tears and heartaches that you went through !!
You are the absolute BEST youtuber and I said it and I’ll say it again !!
Wish all CZcamsrs did videos like this instead of doing monthly favourites, hauls, what I bought this month etc. etc. All those other garbage videos that I no longer have any interest anymore.
I graduate in June and I just want a better paying job to feel like I’m making a dent in my debt. I’m excited for investing and can’t wait to get to that step.
For recommendations, you could call your cc companies to ask them to reduce your interest rate bc you have a plan and you want them as part of your success team.... If they don't play nicely you can transfer to the cc company that is working with you via zero percent transfer (usually 3% fee)....
My rule of thumb is around $1,000-2,000 per person for our family. We have 4 people so I don’t let our EF go lower than $4,000 but like to keep it closer to $8,000. We have $47,000 of debt left to go!! 🎉😭🎉
that's a good rule!
Do pets count? ;)
@@LornaKBailey honestly I would count them! Especially dogs!
@@LornaKBailey ESPECIALLY PETS!
Great video Aja, thank you for explaining the different methods.
Hi Aja! Your videos are always so motivational and informative. I’ve paid off my school debt following some of your advice and was able to buy a house last year! Just wanted to say I appreciate you and will be cheering you on 💕
dammnnnnnn that's amazing!
Side note: the background is beautiful!!
I really needed this video today. Thank you 🌻
girl! what a great timing! haha I just got a pay raise and was wondering exactly this! I'm just starting the video and already liked haha thank you!
This was so helpful🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thank you so much for sharing. It's refreshing to see different POV and not us following what money gurus are saying blindly - example: pay up the high interest debt first. I believe in paying what you're comfortable paying for first, well, because it's your money lol
Love this video! Currently in nursing school rn and stressing about student loans! Thank you for your tips ❤️
Super helpful!! Thank you!
We have paid off 56k in debt in the last year and have a goal of paying off another 45 this year.
WOWOWOWOWOW. that's incredible.
@Nate: paying off 56k must be a huge relief... I paid off my debt 3 years ago and it was such a relief 🙂
Really enjoyed how clearly you explained all the steps and options :-) Working to my step 1 now!
yay! good luck!
this is so helpful, thank you 💓
Great overview Aja! I've personally used avalanche method, paid off 32k with 13.5k remaining, love stopping by your channel and watching someone whose been successful on a debt free journey.
please do more videos like this!!!
Wow I can relate SO MUCH to the ‘saving for retirement vs investing for retirement’ I thought it was just me 😌 thanks for that
I looove your approach to giving advice. Goodbye false tradeoffs!
I'm personally saving half of my emergency fund now and putting money towards my Roth IRA then paying of debt heavy then finish off my emergency fund then invest. This gives me more time to research more on how I'm going to invest (real estate, stocks, etc)
sounds like a solid plan!
Aja, thank u for these videos. It gives insight and perspective that I haven't thought about myself... so, THANK U! I love financial info, worked in the retirement industry for 7 yrs and more people NEED this, esp people in their 20s!! I'm in my 30s and feel like I'm behind already!
what retirement tips do you have since you've been in the industry?
@@AjaDang save by contributing to ROTH IRA, IRAs.. if you're self employed u can also have a SEP IRA, which allows a higher bracket for contributions per year.. helps with taxes too.. if anyone has offering from work for ROTH 401K-contribute to both! IRS allows contribution into ur IRAs to save (invest) for ur savings. Xoxoxo, but gosh there's soooo much more!
Many people that I know in their 20s feel like they don't need to invest in their 401ks yet bc they would rather have those funds in their paychecks. But what they don't realize is that, that small amount can compound so fast, esp with employer match!
@@LindasFavorites I contributed to a SEP this year and it saved me a lotttt in taxes.
@@AjaDang u can have both a SEP & Traditional IRA... and contribute to BOTH, contributions coded slightly different for the IRS. In case u didn't know! 💜
When it comes to investments while paying off debt I've done it a bit strange. I had a fund from a family member that I split and put into the base of an IRA. It was about $1.3K and built it up to about 3.5K before the pandemic. over about 2 years This fall, I then decided to throw $1K into the stock market because it's been so crazy and just let it ride . I only throw $100 each month split between my IRA and stocks and save all of my extra cash to pay off as much of my student loans once forebearance is over.
So I personally suggest, getting a toddler emergency fund, about $3K in an affordable cost of living area, then throw $1K into an IRA, then $1K into a stock portfolio and then not touch it beyond adding $25-$100 in total into both accounts every month until your debts are paid off. To me, having an IRA and a stock portfolio, even if it's small, helps me feel like I'm in control of my finances and I feel like a financially literate adult, but I'm not over doing it.
way to figure out a plan that makes you feel most comfortable!
I love this new background 😍
thanks! been playing around with different options
Love your videos
Thank you, Aja! This clarified things very much to me. I'm at step 1 or 3, I think, because I'm still not sure if I'm comfortable with my current emergency fund. Also, I'm not sure how I should pay back my family because they're helping me very much right now because I'm still studying full time.
However, now I know what I should do next and I'm not so anxious about it anymore ☺️
I long to become as successful as you are, you are truly an inspiration ✨
once you build an emergency fund to a number you're comfortable with, you'll feel more comfortable throwing more money towards your debts
@@AjaDang you're right! Thank you for your answer 😊
The $1000 emergency fund scares me!! Haha but whatever works for you is best. I decided to save a fully funded emergency fund while paying off debt and I’m glad I did! But I’m completely aware not everyone can do that.
always better to have more in your emergency fund than less
I totally agree with this! I think having 1-2 months’ worth of bills and expenses saved up as your baby emergency fund is wise before going HAM on paying off debt. $1,000 likely isn’t going to cut it!
One of the things I love about personal finances is that it truly is personal. For example I started off working full time for a company at 19 y/o that matched my 401K up to 10%. So even while I was broke (in the beginning) I made damn sure that 10% at a minimum was coming out of my check to my 401K. I then budgeted everything else with what I had leftover. Now working for that company for the past 10 years it honestly was the best decision for MYSELF to do an auto-invest first and then work on savings and debt repayment.
Great job explaining, Aja! And loved the nice little summary at the end. I agree with you on so many of your points... I too think that $1,000 is almost nothing. I feel uncomfortable if even my checking account gets that low, so I would never want it as a baby emergency fund. I like your recommendation of $5,000. That's solid.
I also agree that retirement is very expensive, so investing early is key. I made a spreadsheet some years back and calculated that I would need at least $2 million if I even want to retire modestly. So it really scares me when I see middle-aged people that haven't started saving/investing. I was incredibly fortunate to have parents who started me in Vanguard at age 18, which was 20 years ago. It's not a necessity to start that early, but it definitely gives you a huge boost. Keep up all the great advice!
wow - your parents are forward thinkers for doing that for you!
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OMG americans have to pay hospital bills for delivering a BABY ??? That's crazy to me. You guys really need healthcare.
girl. it's so stupid.
Don’t remind me 😭😭😭
Would love a video on investments - not just stocks but also high yield savings
I would love to know how you balanced needs too- for example, if you needed clothes, skincare, haircare, travel, how did you justify it. Did you give yourself a budget of spending money for your well being?
A little perspective - $1000 was ok for me because we’re a dual income family with a decent chunk of disposable cash each month and we knew we could pay off our debts in under a year. If we had less consistent income, only one income stream or a smaller amount of cash to handle emergencies I would have increased my emergency fund out of the gate.
Ah the good ole Dave Ramsey baby steps, gotta love them
Still working on paying off my loans, but they seem more manageable now. The scary thing is, I may be switching to a different position at work that is a pay cut. It is a significant pay cut (at least $1k a month less, basically rent), but it would move me to days instead of nights. At this point for me, having a better sleep schedule and work life balance (one that doesn't involve dealing with death regularly) is worth it. I am just trying to build up my emergency fund to a higher sum in the even that this transfer takes place.
smart of you to prepare yourself for a potential pay decrease. Glad you're thinking about changing positions for your mental health, despite the pay cut
Thank you for sharing this, because I am going through the same issue . I work overnight but I desperately want to work in the morning. To get a better sleep pattern to be more focused on my goals
Is it me or does Aja get prettier every video? Brian is doing his thing!
Are you investing in bonds since you’re buying next year?
51k for the entire hospital bill and 11k out of pocket. And that was just me delivering my daughter and stayed for only 2 nights which usually is 3.
Pay off the loans with highest interest first as some recommend...
Question, do you have any credit cards? How do you manager your credit score. I imagine that's in your mind if you're planning to purchase a home soon.
Perfect timing!
Posted 27 seconds ago! I feel so lucky :)
FIRST!
i would love maybe a video about what you would do differently with your finances on your 20s
i’m a college student living at home with no car but have my own tutoring business, what should i prioritize?
what you prioritize would be based on your needs. Save up for debt payment once you're out of school or if you don't have debt and want a car, save up for a car. Or you can even start saving up for retirement!
If you have no debt, this is a GREAT time to start investing. I lived at home after college for about a year, and I had a job. So because I had no bills, I was able to save up the majority of my earnings. Take advantage of this time in your life, and you'll thank yourself years later!
I paused investing when paying off debt because I knew if I was solely focused on paying off debt, I could do it in less than 2 years. The math of pausing investing sounds scary, but if you can pay off debt in a couple years or less, you aren’t going to be setting yourself back on retirement. Also, being solely focused on the debt made me so mad I had debt and was missing out on other things that I’ve commuting to avoiding debt at all costs in the future
@Ava I agree Ava, paying off debt is such a relief, once its paid off you can start focusing on retirement funds
You definitely will be setting yourself back a bit by not contributing to your retirement account(s) for two years if you're in your 20s or 30s. But that's the opportunity cost. If you feel better paying your debt down first and are ok with having a little less in retirement in the end then cool, do you!
What do you mean by "being saved conservatively"? What kind of savings account do you use for saving for a house?
Is there a way to do the avalanche method with private loans? Mine have me paying $1200 per month as a minimum payment so would it be this amount plus extra money I can put towards the highest debt?
im currently saving for my ffef but I feel like its gonna take years.. how long did it take yours? any ideas how long we can expect to fund this? thoughts on speeding it up?
You look gooood!
hi aja! thank you so much for this video. i have my emergency fund ready, and your videos have helped me tremendously to get to where i am today.
UGH! the links keep breaking. honestly... haven't been on it in a while but it still may be active with the admins. discord.com/channels/735300544981237850/737056623780036718
@@AjaDang oh no, the new link you gave still doesn't work :(( if anyone else has access, please let me know. i wonder if i can be invited in.. but i hope it still exists! so much love for you & this community
It's good to at least invest up to the match in 401k's for people working at places that offer a match. If you want to compare returns vs paying off debt, getting the employee match is 100% return.
I’m doing all 3 at the same time. 🙃 (although debt is the higher priority)
Me too.
Now we just have to have a video on how to come out of a forbearance without screwing up your credit. Wish I k ew this would happen before o did this.
I think it depends on how much money you have, if your interest rate is higher than 5% you better that off before investing, because on average your investment on makes you 8% in a good year. But if you debt interest rate is higher than 5% then you are making zero progress, just loosing more money each month to the high debt interest rate. You’re in the negative. Especially credit card debt. That’s as high as 27% at times. Better to pay of that debt ASAP. Plus just having money that is not going to debt as soon as possible just gives you peace.
Dang!
Either works.Topic for my own subscribers this week. Finances. Part of advancing yourself is having a state of financial security. Many don't because they have let the norms of society convince them they need to have things that aren't important. Like that new car that is a 700 a month payment when you could get a lesser one for 300 a month. Or going to TGI Friday's every week which runs a hundred bucks for your family instead of grilling out which would run 20. If people would really look at what they spend on nonsense they would find that they could easily put away a thousand a month in investments. You don't have to live minimalistic, you just have to live smart. You don't buy a vehicle based on what others will think of you (mine is 14 years old with dents everywhere even though I could purchase a Corvette outright today). You bring lunch to work instead of eating out every day (which is less healthy most likely too.) You don't spend 150 a month for all that media entertainment. You don't get a four wheeler just because your neighbor got one. You don't have a five dollar mocha twice a day. All this stuff adds up. And you don't buy a house you can barely afford. Remember--living paycheck to paycheck keeps you a slave. If you have financial freedom you are always in the position to direct your own life with those slave chains cut. Hope this helps someone-out there-- Charles
Aja I love your videos and this has been my saving grace not joking. There IS a topic I think needs to be addressed and you mentioned it very nicely here "volatile industries" There are so many creatives and creators that must make a living with inconsistent pay and volatile flow of work. And especially right now it is a major beating for us around the world. It would be amazing if you could find the time to make a video addressing this. How did you feel? how did you put your mind frame towards it? the challenges and struggles, the possibilities pros cons realities. And what you believe are the key aspects to navigate a volatile and inconsistent paying job in such a time as this financially. I think many of your creative followers would appreciate it and it would also raise awareness from more "stable" paying jobs on how we live. I as a musician as well as many colleagues for example REALLY struggle and it is a 24/7 job literally. The monetization for streams is meagre and we are having to find ways to branch out and offer our skills and services. Somehow the financial aspect for this is never truly touched upon and I think it would be a very interesting topic.
That's a great topic, and it's one that applies not only to creatives, but to any freelancer or even business owner. Off the top of my head, if I were to go full time into freelancing (which I could with graphic design), I would first transition gradually from some sort of full-time position. (Could be completely unrelated, like working in the restaurant industry.)
I would work 100% at my steady job while working on my passion on the side... And then slowly change that percentage to where my passion eventually becomes my full time, as I get more business and find I can support myself on it. All the while, I would build up savings and investments from the money I make from my full-time job. That way, I'll have a cushion to carry me through the instability of unsteady freelance income.
@@ericachan452 That sounds nice and solid :) but for example, as a musician, it is quite an investment in gear instruments software for it to just be a side hustle. It is ni side hustle it's a constant grind there are no 9-5's and no weekends. If done correctly having the actual skills and set up legally wise as well, is a full-time job. The instability in music is as much as the pay as the schedule... its brutal. There literally is no time for a side job. If there is our health is compromised because it causes extreme exhaustion I have seen it and lived it. With what is happening now esp no live events I am wondering basically what are the options to hunkering down when you only have that source of income or possible collaborations due to that main source.
@@Larindarr Ahh... gotcha. I watch the CZcamsrs TwoSetViolin sometimes, and they are professional violinists who have discussed this issue before, so I understand what you're saying. That's a really rough position to be in, and I hope there are musicians out there who have good advice on this.
Being a creative is never easy, and it's very often not financially rewarded or appreciated in a way that some other jobs that require less skill and talent are. So a lot of creatives end up needing to build up their business savvy skills to become successful and branch out, like you mentioned. I really wish you the best of luck.
@@ericachan452 OHHH yes they are also one of the very few who touch on this. I think more musicians or writers producers photographers etc should touch more on this. I haven't seen them in a while lol thanks for reminding me of them 😌🎶
Do you cancel your credit card after paying it off?
Daaaannng
I just started investing this month and I'm annoyed I didn't do it earlier. It literally sat in my low interest savings this whole pandemic thinking I need to hold onto it but I realized it's too much for an emergency fund. I had 1 insurance+investment prior which was set up by my mom yearsss ago and I was foolish to think that was enough as is.
we only know... what we know. figuring out what we reallllyyy need to do as adults is hard haha
What tips do you have for when you use up all your emergency funds whilst paying of debt and investing and having to restart your baby emergency fund again. That's my situation right now, I feel broke and overwhelmed at times. Love your videos, love from Cape Town🇿🇦
You would completely pause the debt snowball (only pay the minimums on debts) until you rebuild your $1k baby emergency fund. You would no be investing while rebuilding the emergency fund. It is wise not to invest until you are out of debt. Focus on increasing your shovel, (which is your income) and take it step by step.
@@emrose1717 thanks, will work on this. Trying to accomplish too much at once is definitely not working out for me.
Very Nice Video Go a Head
So I’m sitting here listening to a bunch of your videos and was wondering why your voice sounded so darn familiar…. You sound like Halsey!!!!
The very basic emergency fund: 1 month of rent, 4 weeks of gas and groceries, 1 month of bills (water, electricity; internet, CC bills minimums), and money for prescriptions/medicine.
Then, do a 3 month emergency funds. I’m at this step.
Highly recommend: 6 months of emergency funds.
A year of emergency funds depends on the person/household/job industry and personal preference :)
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I think $5,000 is a great emergency fund to start. Unfortunately, many things like cars, medical expenses, problems with a house etc. can easily get up to $1,000 quickly
Debt snoball makes the most psychological sense to me. You get those quick wins. Math doesnt work but really if math was the problem no one would be in debt LOL
haha very true.
❤️❤️
Hey I'm 50 and I've decided that I want to learn about the stock market and how to invest, I have about $250k saved up but first, I have no knowledge of finance.
you can start by reading books on stocks
@Nora Sullivan BENEVOLENCE, thanks for sharing! How good is her service if you dont mind me asking?
If you have no knowledge of finance, I personally would suggest doing your own initial research first. There are so many articles online and books on the subject. I would be wary of hiring any particular individual to manage my money if I was new to it all. Also, look into signing up with Vanguard. They are hands down considered to be one of THE best investment firms around, particularly because of their low fees. And if you invest with them, you have access to their personal advisors, who don't earn commission, so they're not going to give self-interested advice. Good luck!
You sound like a bot
You must have read my my mind as a literally debate paying of fa credit card or investing. I realize investing is about long term gains, but those monthly debt bills each month, most often then not eat up into those gains, if not dealt with first.
I recommend reading about the baby steps from Dave Ramsey
@@chillndill lol no i'm good on Dave Ramsey
@@Queenb2001 hm, just curious why you wouldn't recommend him? I started listening to him recently.
@@chillndill I wouldn't necessarily say that I wouldnt recommend him. I would just say not everything he says aligns with me or how I operate. All financial gurus basically operate on the same principles, They just have different ways of going about it. And for me and my think-set the Dave Ramsey way doesn't necessarily work for me. Dave is a good start, but don't forget to explore other gurus and see what may work for you.
Ha… Baby emergency fund. I prefer a robust emergency fund. I like your priority list. Any option is good as long as you take proactive action.
2:50 haven't you heard of pet insurance?
Snowball over avalanche every time.
Dave Ramsey :)
I dunno
An A/C is an emergency? Girl you should try leaving im south america, we go through life without a/c or fan lol
Do you invest with an IRA? That's what I'm currently doing as a freelancer.
Yes, I have invested in a backdoor Roth IRA in the past but for 2020 I invested in a SEP IRA.
@@AjaDang which do you think is more beneficial in the long run? I’m honestly not sure what the difference is 😂
@@moonbeamars I honestly can't speak to that in your situation but I'd start with an Roth IRA
I got on YNAB and my emergency fund was getting a month ahead on bills now I am snowballing, 50k down 40 to go, btw the guy that was talking about investing while in debt is not very bright, the average credit card interest is like 25% a month while the average index fund return is like 7-11% a year, im not too good at math but that boat has a giant leak in it, if you have no debt except ur house u can invest like a madman (or woman and grow ur moneystupid fast
How do you think we should take Biden's promises to relieve student loan debt into account?
you don't. Live your life like you're not gonna get student debt relief. If you do... bonus! but don't ever live your life off of promises from other people.
Aja, do you regret going to grad school?
no
Can i ask what you majored in for school? Just curious :)
BA in Marketing MA in Broadcast Journalism
If you have no debt and no money saved and invested, you still have no money saved and invested.
I was at a retirement seminar and the speaker spoke on how he quit his job after he made well over $950,000 PROFIT within 3months he invested $120,000. I just began investing and i will really appreciate any tips or helpful guide.
Tip; I’m a new investor as well and I use a broker Joanna Maliva Lee, she’s been guiding me with my investment since I began Late March and I’ve been able to accrue a profit of $526,000 with a principal of $85,000
@@nicholasfee5249 That's wonderful, i've always been told that investing with an expert has it advantage but i have no idea how to find one
@@nicholasfee5249 I think i may have actually come across Joanna somewhere talking about the stock market and she spoke so brilliantly, please how do i get to reach her?
@@randypearson2062 Google search her name ‘Joanna Maliva Lee’ she is quite known for her works.
@@nicholasfee5249 Ok, just found her website, impressive, Thank you.
I would take at least a year to get a 1000 together 😂
Losing your job, having a health emergency, a car or AC breaking down... none of these are emergencies. These are inevitabilities. They should just be line items in your budget. Especially car and home maintenance. Those are foreseeable and very likely to come up, not real emergencies.
Pay debts off and then buy some Bitcoin.
Just throw all your money into crypto like me 😉
Pay Off Debt?
The first thing that you should do is ask yourself “Why am I so stupid that I got here in the first place?”