Smyth Busters: Matching AR-15 Gas System to Buffer System
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2020
- The dynamic duo of Brownells Gun Techs, Steve Ostrem and Caleb Savant, join forces and use their combined super-powers to address the AR-15 Myth that the length of the gas system and the length of the buffer system have to match. For example, if ya got a RIFLE-length gas tube, do ya gotta have a RIFLE buffer system? The answer is NO. Once the buffer end of an AR-15 is set up to operate, it works the same regardless of the gas system up front AS LONG AS the gas system produces the correct volume of gas to cycle the bolt / carrier assembly reliably. Sometimes you do have to change the weight of the buffer, and Steve explains some of those situations. The guys have thick skins - if you think they've overlooked something or you outright disagree with them, let us know in the comments below!
C'mon, you know you want more! Hit the Brownells video library: www.brownellsvideos.com - Sport
You guys represent Brownell’s very well. Thank you for sharing your experience and your knowledge with the rest of us.
Thank you!
True Professionals!
This is why I continue to support Brownell's. They just give out great information to the gun people, even the little things. They really are for the 2nd Amendment.
That's what you got from this specific video?
@@chadwik4000 Not just this video. I'm studying to be a gunsmith, so yeah.
Being relatively new to firearms (only about 7 or 8 yrs now), I like to soak up any bit of info I can. Your Smythbuster videos are short and to the point. Keep up the great content, and thanks
Same for me!
The smyths you just busted for me are why I'm making sure I upgrade my AR with components from your site
Just about every time I have a firearm related question, especially concerning the AR platform, I always come across you guys and this series. Love it!!!! Keep up the great work!!!!
I just bought a mid-length upper and had a spare lower which might be a carbine setup. You guys just answered what I was seeking on your last setup.
You guys are always putting out informative topics. Thank you all at Brownells...
All of my ARs, from a 10.5" with carbine-length gas system to an 18" with rifle-length gas, all run carbine buffer systems with zero issues and none are equipped with adjustable gas blocks.
do you run any of them suppressed?
@@gabegoins4422 No, not at this time.
You're definitely lucky. Are your AR's 5.56? It definitely can get tricky when running suppressed and different calibers.
@@jaydee5156ya if u were to suppress them u would probably need to install a H2 buffer to make up for the increased pressures with the suppressorz
You guys always give great advice and tips. Thanks!
I have spent most of the day looking for this exact information. Thank y'all for answering so completely.
Thank you for the time yall put into these videos very much appreciated
Thank you for simplifying this! I ordered a complete upper with a mid-length gas system (replacing my old upper with a carbine length) and was worried I would have an issue with my current buffer/spring setup. Needless to say problem solved thank you!
Agreed! Thank you Brownells for this concise and super helpful video.
Steve, Caleb, you guys are making the internet a better place. Thanks for the information!
I know this isn’t a recent post but you guys always answer my questions.Thank you!
Awesome. Straight to the point and you both know what you are talking about.
Thanks guys. I have a carbine-length buffer system with a mid-length gas system that isn't cycling properly, and my first thought was assuming that I need a different buffer system.
This has become my favorite Firearms channel
This is a great series thank you, please keep putting these out.
If you want, you could also put out a series about tuning a gas system. I bet most people don't realize the difference that can make in their shooting experience and the trade offs that might come with it. I would say with plenty of links to the parts mentioned, but censorTube, so you could just mention search keywords in the video or something.
Thank you for this! It seems I see so much mixed information on forums and other youtubers and it seems I can always rely on Brownells for accurate information!
You guys rock. I always learn something new on Smythbusters.
Thank you for your videos, Brownell's rocks!
good video guys, i have a couple of m16a5 (semi-auto clones) they have a 20 inch upper attached to a vltor a5 lower with a h4 buffer and i have perfect 4 o'clock ejection when i use 55 grain lapua or federal ammo so this is my preferred gas system/buffer system setup. 👍👍
Thank you! I purchased an upper and bcg from Aero and could get a reply from them on this exact issue. I have a carbine buffer and I was concerned as I had a rifle length gas upper. Now I know I can run this system with doing any damage. Much appreciated.
Sorry, I meant to say without doing any damage.
This is more of an issue with full-auto. I was getting bolt-bounce on my M16 with a 10.5 inch barrel until I put in an H2 buffer
Always enjoy the tutorials you guys provide for us. Thanks!
Dude. Caleb, I just happened to stumble on this video looking into stuff about my own build and I couldn’t help but remember that time you made me a suit of Roman armor. Crazy small world
Thanks guys. I just bought a 20 upper with rifle gas system and was wondering if I needed to change the buffer system. Thanks for the information
Just built an AR 15 in 6 ARC.. with a 22" barrel and rifle length gas system. Used a carbine receiver extension with carbine length spring and buffer. It would eject, but it was short stroking and would jam-up on every other round. I ended up exchanging the new carbine length spring for an older carbine length spring that had been run for several yrs in a older 5.56 AR. The weaker spring allowed it to go bang without issues..
Thanks for the presentation. Useful info.
Thanks for the info, I was wondering what I needed for my rifle.
Thanks guys, love Brownells!
Really helpful video! I’m having some, inconsistent, BCG issues on my LR-308 build and I was wondering if this might be the reason why. Gonna try a few other things now
Thanks for the on point summary and advice.
Love these videos. You guys stay classy
Thanks guys you’re always helpful
Thanks. Getting ready to do a new build. This helps a lot
Short and to the point...good form fellas.
I went with the Geissle guide, but no mention about a pistol length gas system with a non-suppressed 11.5" barrel. But Since I'm running a flat wire buffer spring, I went with an H-2 buffer.
Something I recently experienced was an AR-15 that short stroked after a barrel swap. After troubleshooting it seemed to be the gas system at fault. Trying to research AR-15 gas and buffer specs is very cryptic, there seems to be little consistency in what is correct gas port size for each gas length and the knowledge of pairing buffer weight with system length and port size is nigh impossible. A dependable reference for these things could put to rest MANY myths. In the end I had a smith drill the gas port to .078 and while seemingly overgassed the rifle now runs reliably.
AliasSLH We looked at that and the gas block added no restriction to the gas system
you guys rock. Solved all my problems so happy
Definitely accurate. All buffer systems are designed to deal with roughly the same total recoil impulse. They're just designed to dissipate them over different lengths. Thus a carbine-length buffer will produce a sharper recoil than a rifle-length one as the BCG is decelerating more rapidly.
Surely it isn't that simple. If this is the case then why isn't everyone running the heaviest H3 buffers possible?
Will a stock made for a shorter buffer tube still work on a longer buffer tube?
Yeah why would anybody want a sharper recoil
@@iank6897 because not every gun comes in the same caliber bud
@@MrSabram07More stock options + lighter weight
I had to switch to a heavier buffer on a 10.5 in barreled (SBR) AR build I did once I started to run a suppressor. But other than that I've only ever changed buffer weight for comfort, not reliability.
Good video. I have two 20” barrel AR-15’s. Trouble cycling, extracting and bolt locking back after the last shoot. I have been researching this and have concluded I am under gassed and perhaps need to re-examine gas block alignment. I have swapped out BCG, check and verified gas rings integrity, changed buffer and spring, cleaned and lubed rifle and tried different ammo. Fires or does not fire just a click, extracts some times, sometimes gets stuck in chamber and does not lock back at all. When the case does extract and ejects it is to the side or slight back as best I can tell. Previous videos on the direction where the case ejects suggested gassing problems. Still research this. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
Curious, how does that rifle length on a carbine buffer gun shoot, vs a mid length on a carbine buffer gun? Does the longer dwell time of the rifle length system make a dramatic difference to the smoothness/operation, or is it kinda negligible?
Love these videos
Thanks for being here!
Will a longer buffer tube, like an A5? Assuming the spring and weight are correct, it seems like it could help.
If you want to know why the difference in length isn’t problematic I’ll sum it up simply.
When colt began shortening the m16 platform they wanted to take length off of both ends of the rifle so they shortened the barrel and placed the gas port in the location that led to the smaller profile of the original colt commando then tuned the port to let in the right amount of pressure to cycle the action. Then colt created a new shorter buffer tube with a recessing stock that allowed the commando to be convenient in small spaces while still having the ability to use a full length stock when needed. The new buffer system had a shorter buffer and spring inside but the weight of the buffer was increased and the spring was strengthened to give the same resistance of the full length system.
Essentially it takes the same amount of force to cycle a carbine and rifle length buffer system.
Actually the weight of the buffer was DECREASED. Carbine buffers were 3 oz at that time vs the rifle buffers 5 oz. But you were close.
Great video very informative. I’m using a rifle length buffer tube and 16” barrel in my new AR build. What about the buffer weight should I not be using the rifle buffer weight in this case?
what/when/how do you choose between all the buffer weights and spring weights
Great video. Can you use a rifle buffer on a mid length upper?
The other question that needs addressing is does this also apply to .308 AR-10?
Thanks. No BS straight to the point.
Excellent topic!
Thanks great vid. What about buffers made from 6061 vs 7071?
Great information thanks a lot
Great info.
Those people who I've heard asking this question is to fold. One you answered, the other is recoil mitigation and which reduces it the best, or is it the same from system to system and which reduces it the best or what spring buffer combo does this.
This is a good video subject, as the less felt the more happy shooters will be and injoy, and love their system.
Depends on what gas system you are using. Heavier buffers will mitigate recoil and slightly slow the BCG.
@@toynazi absolutely. This is very evident in the 9mm pcc's. You can tell the difference on a chrony in longer barrels. It's not alot gained, but every bit counts, most of the time. But the one differance I do not like is the bolt returning to battery. The heavier the buffer, the heavier the slam ( so to speak ) into battery. It's a heavier jolt home. I've often thought about adding a spring up in the non gas key area and guid rod to slow and even this out.
A.R. pistols especially 9 mm do you need light pistol buffers and have many function problems with a standard buffer system, also what about a dissipater model I specifically had to adjust my spring and buffer system to accommodate a dissipater rifle?
Great video
This is the exact info i needed! Thank you! I had just built a lower with the intention of using a carbine gas system, but changed my mind half way through, was wondering if i can use my carbine length receiver extension and buffer system with a mid-length gas.
We should be good because most ARs from what I’ve seen run carbine tubes, and mid length gas systems are also pretty common so I think the set up should be fine
I agree with these guys. I had bought a .450 Bushmaster upper for one of my AR lowers. I had read on a forum that you needed a heavier buffer because of the more powerful round. Well I was having problems with cycling, changed back to the original buffer and it ran fine after that. So beware of what you read on forums.
Hey there. I'm trying to do the same. Thinking of a 450 BM don't know if I should go carbine or mid length or rifle. My AR is
16 inch carbine but don't know if I can change that to a mid length or rifle. Any thoughts you can throw my way?
@@JT-ie1pp The difference between carbine, mid length and rifle is where the gas port is in the barrel with carbine being the closest to the chamber at 7.3 inches, mid length a little further at 9.3 inches and rifle the furthest at 12.65 inches from the chamber. A lot depends on barrel length as you shouldn't use a rifle length on a barrel less than 20 inches. If you are going with a 18 inch barrel a mid length gas system is preferable but a carbine will work. If you go with a 16 inch barrel the carbine length is preferable but a mid length will work . As for the lower receiver and stock , it really doesn't matter as long as you have the correct spring buffer for your setup as in a rifle spring and buffer will not work in a carbine stock. Nor will a carbine spring and buffer work in a rifle set up. Your carbine lower/stock setup should work fine for which ever barrel length and corresponding gas system you go with within the guidelines I mentioned above. My .450 BM setup is a 16 inch barrel with a carbine length gas system with a carbine stock on my lower. Other than the previously mentioned snafu of going with a heavier a buffer after reading it on a forum, once I switched back to a standard weight buffer, I've had zero problems. I bought my .450 BM for hunting in a limited firearm area for whitetail deer but it makes a great brush gun. I have it sighted in at 3 inches high at 100 yards which gives me a dead on hold out to 230 yards keeping shot placement well within the 8 inch kill area of a whitetail as long as I do my part. I ended up ordering a 18 inch bareel with a carbine length for a buddy of mine. There's no real noticeable difference in shooting between the two but if we chronographed the two of them we would probably find his is 150 fps faster which would give him a slightly flatter trajectory which might give him a 250 dead on hold range at the expense of mine being a little more maneuverable in brush with the shorter barrel. The 2 uppers I mentioned and an identical to my upper I ordered for my brother were all Bear Creek Arsenal uppers. They all shoot decent accuracy, not tack drivers but acceptable. They have very good prices on their uppers and I'm satisfied with their quality. When I was looking for a .450 BM upper, they were the only ones that any in stock unless I wanted to pay $800 or more for an upper so I took a chance on them and glad I did.
GOOD INFO FELLAS, THNX
Wonder if there's a difference in the durability of the system though with the different configurations
The problems I have encountered with short cycling are usually tied to the length of barrel available beyond the gas port. For example, I'm tinkering with a "Dissipator" clone which is basically the M16A1 rifle configuration with a 16.5" barrel. This places the muzzle much closer to the gas port hole in the barrel. The result is less gas will enter the gas port to generate sufficient pressure to reliably cycle the bolt carrier group (BCG). Instead, the extra gas needed will leave the muzzle with the projectile. Since less energy is transmitted to the BCG, the result is sluggish bolt operation, failure to pick up the next round, and failure to engage the bolt catch after the last shot is fired.
My question is, if you want to make it softer shooting, is it better to get a heavier buffer system or adjustable gas block and turn it down?
One way has to be better, so which is it? I mean better for the gun and for reliability. Reliability is more important to me than anything
Recommend buffer setup for a 300BLK build with an 8.5 in barrel? Want to run it both suppressed and unsuppressed.
Why is there stove pipes on AR? Is it due to incorrect buffer system or. Weak ejectors or extractor?
So my odd ball spring and weight for my AR 5.7 operates with my 5.56 set up??
Question, if I run a rifle length gas system, and my carbine buffer system won't cycle a second round into chamber, do I need a lighter or heavier buffer then the h2 that's in there?
I have a rifle length gas system on a dissipator build i am doing, what buffer and spring weight should i use?
I have a 20in barrel with a carbine lower. It looks like I'm shorty stroking. Will a softer spring help?
I just put together my first AR - it’s a 10.5” barrel, chambered in .300blk. It runs a pistol length gas system, with a carbine length buffer. Shot it for the first time today, and it wouldn’t cycle properly. RSO said yeah it needs to match - however, I was running 220gr subsonic suppressor ammo with NO suppressor on it. (It was the only ammo I could find in stock) I also had someone talk about the gas system should be .012 and maybe it’s .09 which doesn’t allow enough gas through.
Is it because of the ammo I was running, or does the gas system or buffer spring need to be changed?
I don't disagree 1 bit. I do have a question about having an adjustable gas block and an adjustable buffer for weights what do you set up first? And what are you looking for as results from each possess?
I'm in the middle of this right now. Colt 20" HBAR 1/7 twist that I've been shooting with a rifle length buffer runs beautiful. I recently swapped out to a carbine length buffer/tube/stock and original light (not "H" buffer). The rifle started double firing with Speer factory 64 gr GDSP. The disconnector spring feels (travel & tension) like my other AR15's. Someone suggested switching up to the H2 buffer. The rifle buffer weighs in around 5 oz. and my original carbine buffer is less than 4 oz.
In dry fire function testing I can not duplicate the malfunction. In case there is anything to the H2 as a cure I have one on order from Brownell's.
The weight of the buffer has to do directly with the weight of the barrel on an auto-loading rifle. The heavier the barrel, the heavier the buffer weights need to be to keep the dead-blow effect right. With a 20" HBar I would use an H3 but an H2 should work fine on a semi.
I built an AR-15 rifle and had a mid length gas system and rifle length buffer and it wouldn't cycle. It rarely even ejected the empty casing. I put my mid length upper on one of my carbine buffer lowers and it ran and put the carbine upper on the rifle length lower and it ran just fine. Confused me so much.
Most appreciated tip 👍.
I got a rifle length using a JP silent capture spring works great, and a rifle length using a Geissele rifle length super 42 spring and a kynshot hydraulic buffer works great.
I have an .300AAC blackout. It has a pistol length gas system. The ejection pattern is not at the 3-4 o'clock angle. Unfortunately, I don't remember if it was at 1 o'clock or 5:30 o'clock. Being as I had no way to take notes and sighted in multiple guns. Is there a different buffer weight recommended or different spring for a pistol length gas system? I am running it with a carbine length buffer tube. the barrel is 15".
I'm going through this right now with an AR15 18' barrel using a carbine buffer its not fully pushing the bolt all the way back, so i would say you're wrong. You have to change the weights depending on the length of the barrel / gas system and in some cases in the carbine buffer you can't fit enough weight. I built a AR10 300 WSM with a 24 inch barrel and had to go with a rifle buffer because a carbine buffer would move to fast causing stove piping and damage to the bras and I couldn't get enough weights to fit in a carbine buffer. Also I built a 6.5 creedmoor with a 24 inch barrel and had similar problems but rather than trying to tune it with weights i just got the rifle buffer.
When I got a solid stock to replace my collapsible on my carbine, the spring was longer, and the buffer was longer and heavier. Why would they do this if they are “all the same?” Or does the length of the stock (buffer tube) affect things?
Because the buffer tube is longer and the spring is a different tension.
Anything different about a pistol length gas system that would make it incompatible with a rifle or carbine length tube?
I have a carbine length barrel with a mid-length gas system. I put it on a Magpul fixed stock with a rifle buffer system. It would not cycle. I changed the buffer to a heavy carbine buffer and it seems to function reliably. I am guessing the dwell time is the issue.
You guys are the reason America is great.
Thank you!
QUESTION:
Can an A5 buffer system be used with a 20" Rifle Length Gas .308 AR-10?
If not, what is the best buffer system to use with a Magpul PRS Lite buttstock?
if you use a m16 style spring in a six position buffer tub you can have cycle problems m16 style is slightly longer.
Great series.
What about if converting from a 7in PDW to a carbine length is that buffer still going to be ok?
I'd like the soft shooting side of my AR 15. I have a Ballistic Advantage 5.56 17.7in 3 gun barrel with a mid length gas system. I will use a carbine / adjustable length lower. By using a H2 buffer ( I have a full auto BCG) will this soften the recoil impulse? I realize I need to check case egection . Please advise
(16-18" barrel) Would a rifle length gas system with a mid length buffer work better than with a carbine buffer? Don't see many rifle buffer & gas systems together.
I have tuned my Ar15 with H1 buffers like the feel of it. I reload and easier on brass.
I also run H1 buffers on most of my builds (all carbine length except for 2 maxim 5.375" buffers).
Question, I had so many parts
I decided to go ahead and
complete however many I had parts for and get good deals on a few parts I needed. All four are basically the same besides one and it has a
Rifle length buffer tube and IS COMPENSATED. My question is, does the extra
length of the buffer tube help mitigate the recoil at all because Shooting it, it’literally feel like shooting a 22or. It’s hard for me to give the comp all the credit. What’s your thoughts rifle or carving links?
Can a 556 buffer tube spring& buffer work in an AR-10?
I have some 69 gr.smk loaded with N140 I get just a small amount of flow on the primer . My friends rifle shoots these same bullets no flow on primer. His has a mid length gas system mine has carbine . I suspect the buffer is releasing a bit to soon on mine . I'm going to put an H2 in it see if this corrects it . By the way loaded in specs and puts .750 groups at 100 yds. So it may function with light buffer but not at its best and the gas system and buffer do have to match .
I have to put a lighter buffer spring and buffer for my rifle length gas system in order to cycle properly.
Good info
Is there any reason why a pistol gas upper wouldn't work with a rifle buffer lower?
I'm building an AR with a 16" barrelled upper (5.56/.223) and mid-length gas tube ( .750 Non-Adjustable Mid-Length Gas System). My goal is a reliable but smooth shooter. Any "recommended" starting point for the buffer tube length and buffer weight?
My bcm is really over gassed. What do you guys recommend? I bought a H2 buffer hoping it will reduce the recoil. My friend said changing out the buffer only helps with the ejection pattern. What do you guys think I need to help reduce the recoil and over gas problem I have?
Adjustable gas block
Thank you!
I love Brownell.. 😍😍😍😍
We love you right back!
Do h2 buffers work good 16" barrels with carbine gas systems?
It should do fine. I run one in my do all lower that uses a short barrel and a 16" mid length gas system. havent' had issues with either. softens it up a bit.