Hungarian KGPF-9: Kalashnikov Genetics in a 9mm SMG

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  • čas přidán 13. 05. 2018
  • / forgottenweapons
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    This modern Hungarian submachine gun bears a remarkable similarity to the AKM rifle in many aspects, from the pistol grip to many of the manufacturing practices. In fact, the more we did into the gun, the more Kalashnikov influence we can see in it. This particular example is semiautomatic only, but the weapon is made as both a civilian carbine and as a fully automatic submachine gun for military sales. And no, it's not available in the United States - my thanks to its anonymous owner outside the US for sharing it with us!
    If you enjoy Forgotten Weapons, check out its sister channel, InRangeTV! / inrangetvshow
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Komentáře • 587

  • @zaporozsec1
    @zaporozsec1 Před 6 lety +882

    Just a little extra info here.
    I am a Hungarian gun entusiast, so I try to keep track of the local weapons industrty. Well, this is quiet easy to do, becouse this submachine gun is one of the latest firearm designs went into serial production in Hungary.
    It was designed in the late 80s (under communist rule) by Zoltán Horváth (engineer of FÉG) but serial production actually started in the late 90s. It is allegedly used by hungarian prison guards and the Hungarian army (later is told to have around 1000 pcs, full production numbers are not public). I personally saw 2 military police guys carrying it on patrol a few weeks ago, so it is actually in use. It was also used by Hungarian soldiers in Afghanistan. Until this video I didn't know about any semi-auto or export versions.
    It is know by the name of KGP-9 (without the "F"), it stands for Komondor géppisztoly (Komondor Submachine-gun) or Kis géppisztoly (small submachine-gun).
    The gun is told to be very reliable, very controllable in full auto despite it has a very high firing rate. The magazine is 25 rounds. During service trials it was compared with the Mini UZI, Glock-18, APS-9 and vz.68. It turned out to be completely reliable even under dusty conditions, and to have superior service life (around 10.000 shots) compared to the other tested guns. It was also very cheap, allegedly around 20% of the contemporary western submachine guns.
    So this is the perfect SMG, isn't it. Well, not quite. It's time to talk about the bad. It has terrible ergonomics. The folding stock is just as bad as the AK counterpart, the sight is permanently fixed on the receiver cover, after disassembly this will never be at the same position as before. Some (probably prototype) versions had a charging handle made from the trigger, actually a sharp ended hook capable of making hand injuries. No flashlight or laser pointer can be attached (at least officially). The foregrip (which is removed in the video) is too wide to hold the gun comfortably. Some experts say it is absolutely inadequate for professional (especially police) use.

    • @mikemike6908
      @mikemike6908 Před 5 lety +31

      zaporozsec1 with a few additions I think it could be a great little gun. If special forces were seen using it in Afghanistan still it must be doing something right

    • @AJTHAxx
      @AJTHAxx Před 5 lety +34

      @@mikemike6908 Not special forces, just soldiers. You could see a some in the Petőfi (MP only as far as I know) and in Szentendre, maybe not since the adoption of scorpion evo 3, but they sill have it.

    • @mikemike6908
      @mikemike6908 Před 5 lety +4

      AJTHAxx read what I said again. I was just talking about Afghanistan. I’m sure nobody will be using them soon with the addition of the new scorpion evo

    • @szardroid
      @szardroid Před 5 lety +26

      @@mikemike6908 Két magyar angolul beszéli meg... vicces.

    • @AJTHAxx
      @AJTHAxx Před 5 lety +8

      ​@@szardroid Ja, gondoltam, ha más is elolvassa, az is értheti, és az eredeti is ángélusul volt.
      @Miklós Nagy Ezt írtad: "If special forces were seen using it in Afghanistan still it must be doing something right." Erre válaszoltam. A KMZ nem használta tudtommal ezt a csúzlit Afganisztánban.
      hozzászólásom célja nem sértés volt, csak javítás.

  • @thegoldencaulk2742
    @thegoldencaulk2742 Před 6 lety +930

    This thing looks like the kind of gun I would draw up as a kid

    • @dermotrooney9584
      @dermotrooney9584 Před 6 lety +25

      Hello Golden Caulk. How often do you leave the first comment? Good skils! The guns I drew as a kid were much bigger.

    • @therugburnz
      @therugburnz Před 6 lety +37

      TheGoldenCaulk Yeah, but when we were kids the teacher may or may not have told us , " Don't draw that. Guns are bad." . Now a kid would get handcuffed or at least suspended for saying he wanted to think about drawing something that might kinda resemble a completely leagal BBgun his family actually gave him for Christmas.
      Peace be with you my brother.

    • @inverseactuality
      @inverseactuality Před 6 lety +18

      Usually schools aren't that crazy, it's just that the ones that are make the news every time anything happens. I was in high school until fairly recently (2014) and printed out pictures of subguns and assault rifles in the school library for projects and no one cared. A teacher did once tell me to stop telling kids the legal process for acquiring machine guns and other NFA items though but that's about it, and I can see why she wouldn't want someone who doesn't know they're legal to overhear something like "I know a place that sells machine guns" in a school. I doubt that they're any harsher towards the younger kids, it'd probably still just be the possibility of being told to stop drawing them. Things are never as bad as the news makes them out to be.

    • @xmm-cf5eg
      @xmm-cf5eg Před 6 lety +9

      Looks like the kind of gun I held up the neighbor boy with as a kid.
      Good times, er, simpler times.

    • @mememetal6631
      @mememetal6631 Před 6 lety +6

      Imagine if she would met you now and see you watching these "dangerous, evil, corrupting" videos.

  • @kiakiralyasd
    @kiakiralyasd Před 6 lety +118

    FEG wen bankrupt in 2004. This weapon is mainly used by prison guards in Hungary, and is widely considered unergonomic. Greetings from Hungary!

  • @MilsurpMikeChannel
    @MilsurpMikeChannel Před 6 lety +908

    An AK and an Uzi got drunk one night and made some bad life decisions... 9 months later, you get the KGPF-9.

  • @gyorgysanta145
    @gyorgysanta145 Před 6 lety +204

    As a Hungarian I can tell you that this is quite a terrible weapon. It's an interesting design, it had a potential but it was never a good weapon.
    Unergonomic, uncomfortable, too high of a RoF especially with a 20 round mag.
    It was designed in the late '80s, there were multiple attempts in the '90s to introduce this SMG to the Hungarian Army but it failed the tests and later on it just wasn't economical to adapt. In like 2000-2002 there were about 1000 of them bought, some saw service in Afghanistan but in the end everyone who this weapon was originially designed for got the MP5 instead because it's better by light-years.
    After all with some updates and fixes it could've been a solid SMG but it never got the support or positive feedback that could've driven such a motion. Plus FÉG went bankrupt in 2004.
    Nowadays we are purchasing CZ Scorpion EVO 3s for the police and army.

    • @miszterq0088
      @miszterq0088 Před 4 lety +8

      Szerintem igaza van. Én úgy tudom hogy cső túlmelegedési gondjai voltak a nagy tűzgyorsaság miatt.

    • @davidj3841
      @davidj3841 Před 4 lety +5

      @@MrSmiley-mr3gg He's right though

    • @happytomato1135
      @happytomato1135 Před 3 lety +1

      Wait...
      Scorpiókat akarunk venni? Cseh CZ Scorpiont?
      MP5 helyett? Azta....

  • @9HolyDiver
    @9HolyDiver Před 6 lety +62

    One little trivia: FÉG is Fegyver És Gázkészülékgyár. Which translates roughly to Arms and gas equipment factory. They produce small arms and gas boilers and burners :)

    • @ForgottenWeapons
      @ForgottenWeapons  Před 6 lety +81

      I think a word with that many accent marks legally qualifies as an assault weapon.

    • @ineednochannelyoutube5384
      @ineednochannelyoutube5384 Před 6 lety +10

      +Forgotten Weapons They are not accent marks. We just indicate long and ahort vovels with them. It can look ridiculous to someone who doesnt speak it tho, I guess.

    • @chrismorse3862
      @chrismorse3862 Před 6 lety

      +I need no channel youtube! always? or just when written for some foreign language speaker who would be sounding it out for the first time

    • @ineednochannelyoutube5384
      @ineednochannelyoutube5384 Před 6 lety +1

      +Chris Morse You get used to them I imagine. á is aa, é is ae and so on.

    • @chrismorse3862
      @chrismorse3862 Před 6 lety

      +I need no channel youtube! just sounds tedious and unnecessary. I mean once you know the word you know the vowel sound it uses.
      there's a reason we only have them in the pronunciation part of dictionaries and the like

  • @huntzy4220
    @huntzy4220 Před 6 lety +137

    Hey Ian, have you ever thought about making videos on firearms tooling and manufacturing equipment? I think it would be really cool to see some of the technology used to actually manufacture these historical devices

    • @moosemaimer
      @moosemaimer Před 6 lety +6

      Springfield Armory has a pretty good museum of manufacturing... there's one display just showing all the different steps to make the rear sight on an M1.

    • @ObsoleteVodka
      @ObsoleteVodka Před 6 lety +19

      YT would probably take them down because "it teaches terrorists how to make weapons".

    • @derekhenschel1632
      @derekhenschel1632 Před 6 lety +1

      No actually gun Making is historical information so it's protected under the 2001 historic videos act. It's why videos of Columbine are still up

    • @Regolith86
      @Regolith86 Před 6 lety +12

      Derek Henschel: I can't find any reference to such an act, and regardless, it wouldn't affect CZcams anyway. CZcams is a private company and can decide what videos it wants to host and which ones it doesn't. The recent demonetization and deleting of gun videos was due to a private (and poorly made, IMO) decision by CZcams, and not due to any government pressure that I am aware of.

    • @LOL60345
      @LOL60345 Před 4 lety +1

      @@stanleynickjedrzejczyk4533 pretty ironic considering the only way to do a revolution is using firearms. its almost like the commies are also getting played.

  • @jeffengland2791
    @jeffengland2791 Před 6 lety +145

    I guess the AK design elements in this gun are a case of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' lol

    • @andrasbonitz3491
      @andrasbonitz3491 Před 5 lety +1

      Or rather "the entire country can only produce AKs as automatic firearms and we need an SMG for NATO really ,really cheap".

    • @andrasbonitz3491
      @andrasbonitz3491 Před 5 lety

      @Neo Hungarian BarbarianI'd actually be curious to hear the stories you heard.

    • @zephyrna6249
      @zephyrna6249 Před 5 lety

      Generally the hungarian philosophy

  • @skoopsro7656
    @skoopsro7656 Před 6 lety +69

    This is absolutely awesome. We NEED these in the US. Akfiles would LOVE it

    • @aronkovacs1386
      @aronkovacs1386 Před 4 lety +8

      No we don't. It's generally hated by Hungarian Service members

    • @dannymcbas6130
      @dannymcbas6130 Před 4 lety +16

      I’m an active service member of the Hungarian Defence Forces Military Police and believe me... You don’t want this gun :D the mag released itself on the street before 30+ civilians not once. Laughingstock in the army

    • @samholdsworth3957
      @samholdsworth3957 Před 3 lety +1

      Lol

  • @balazsneuperger2063
    @balazsneuperger2063 Před 6 lety +28

    Just some small info: there is no weapon designated under the name AMD-63, only the AMD - 65 with folding stock, front grip and a muzzle brake. The AK variant Ian try to refer is the AKM-63, fixed stock, regular barrel length and the same style of foregrip.
    The fire rate of the KGP-9 is 1200 rounds/minute, it is a fast shooting gun. The magazine capacity is 25 rounds.

    • @mememetal6631
      @mememetal6631 Před 6 lety +9

      Just some extra info:
      AKM veriants:
      AK-63 F [fatusás = wooden stock] fixed wooden butt stock
      AK-63 D [deszant = paratrooper] under folding butt stock
      AK-63 veriant:
      AMD-65 carbine version, muzzle brake, front grip, metal heat shield, side folding wire stock

  •  Před 5 lety +2

    Hungarian gun nut here. Some additions.
    KGP stands for "könnyű géppisztoly" which means light machine pistol. F means "félautomata", semi-automatic. By the way the manufacturer is not FEG but FÉG, with an accent on the E, and it's pronounced "fe-eg", not eff-ee-gee. But of course you can't speak every obscure language properly. :) FÉG stands for "Fegyver- és Gázkészülékgyár", Weapons and Gas Devices Factory. It's a large plant on the outskirts of Budapest and it has a long history and a major role in every turmoil we went through in the 20th century. It's been shut down a few years ago.
    The KGP-9 wasn't the first Hungarian SMG, but the last one was the "Danuvia", a post-war design which saw only limited police use up until the early 1960s. When the KGP-9 was designed in the late 1980s, the Hungarian army didn't have submachine guns, but neither law enforcement, they also used AK assault rifles and some of the old Danuvias. The necessity of such a weapon arose when the police formed its first Western-style SWAT team, the Komondor Kommandó (named after a huge breed of dog, the komondor - today there's an armored military vehicle with this name) and the army also indicated its intent to depart from rigid Soviet military doctrines. Its parts were indeed designed with repurposing the machinery used to manufacture the AMD-65 and the AK-63D in mind. Those were the main products of FÉG for many decades, it only made sense to make something similar.
    The military wasn't really satisfied with this gun, but they kept using them in small numbers anyway until they got MP5s. Some Hungarian UN troops on the Sinai Peninsula carried them, and as to my knowledge some of them were used in Iraq too. They've been phased out, though they're still on inventory. Nowadays it sees widespread use in correctional institutes. Go to any court in Budapest and sooner or later you'll see COs escorting inmates to hearings with one of these babies on their shoulders.

  • @jackmcslay
    @jackmcslay Před 6 lety +6

    There's a certain charm to efficiently engineered firearms, it's always impressive to see impressively intricate mechanisms but so is seeing the lengths they manage to simplify them down to making the most of existing manufacturing equipment.

  • @Coastal_Cruzer
    @Coastal_Cruzer Před 6 lety +3

    I don’t know why I’m so filled with joy every time you post a video of a gun from Hungary... but I’m happy

  • @user-wx3wc4bo7c
    @user-wx3wc4bo7c Před 6 lety

    I'm really glad I stumbled on to you channel a few years ago? It's like a janes digest of guns but modernized and more informative glad I also got one of the "only dropped once" shirts I'm looking forward to the Sandinista - Contra early operator shirts or the "Camilo Cienfuegos" one but didn't buy the Polish one because didn't want to broadcast such things and stuff since .... Yeah

  • @Bravomarko
    @Bravomarko Před 6 lety +1

    It will be strange, but the abbreviation behind the KGP is: “Kis Gép-Pisztoly” which it means “Little Sub-Machinegun” - so Lil’ SMG
    F maybe the abr. of “Fél-automata” so “Semi-auto” -> Due to the export model
    Otherwise by the FÉG the F abr., served for “Fatusás” as “Wooden” furniture. Because there was a KGP version (Samples) which manufactured with longer barrel, and assembled with wooden handguard and wooden sport stock.

  • @attilarischt2851
    @attilarischt2851 Před 6 lety +7

    I recall an old article, allegedly the soldiers were not particularly fond of it. It's not bad per se, they said it does the job, but there are just better guns available. Not perfectly applicable to this particular gun, but they mentioned the plastic furniture being low quality in the military version (The one that is merely KGP-9. The F simply marks the civilian variant). That's the only particular reasoning I remember.
    Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the similarities to an AK is really due to just making it cheaper with the reusing the tooling and stuff.

    • @mememetal6631
      @mememetal6631 Před 6 lety

      Yes, I read it. They were salty about it. But they were also bit exaggerating it.
      The quality was problem, do to getting close to bankruptcy(yes, once again, but was the last time they escaped it).

  • @matthayward7889
    @matthayward7889 Před 6 lety +4

    Ian sounds genuinely excited about this gun!

  • @vandor1976
    @vandor1976 Před 6 lety +1

    The designer was Horvath Andras. He was working for FEG the Hungarian weapon factory. Yes Ian was right as usual because the FEG produced the AK for the Hungarian needs so the FEG used the same tools. The prototypes of the kgpf-9 were ready in 1988. The biggest user of the weapon the Hungarian prison service and Hungarian army has some. Was/is? service in Afganistian. I did not find any source for the production numbers or combat use.

  • @ospeau
    @ospeau Před 6 lety

    I'd love to have some nice quality images of this gun but can't find any on the web. Great video Ian!

  • @carlpeters1278
    @carlpeters1278 Před 6 lety

    I think the AK design elements are brilliant, easy to re-use tooling as you suggested and the first thing that came to my mind was the ever present problem with a "peasant" army strategy is, manual of arms. So if poorly trained conscripts are already trained with an AK, transition to this weapon would require very little retraining, possibly even to the point that anyone in the squad could use this weapon should the need arise. Brilliant video as always keep up the great work.

  • @petrus3801
    @petrus3801 Před 6 lety

    This is the best channel in youtube!

  • @rbbobbi0
    @rbbobbi0 Před 6 lety +287

    Kicsit sárga, kicsit savanyú, de a miénk!

  • @clawrence034
    @clawrence034 Před 6 lety

    Ian, Have you thought about doing interviews with the industrial engineers who worked on setting up manufacturing of different guns or tours of currently operating production lines?

  • @andraselias995
    @andraselias995 Před 6 lety +1

    I've found the following on hungarian wikipedia:
    The gun was designed by Ferenc Földi (ret. colonel), who was also - among others - the designer of the "Gepárd M1" anti-material rifle. (The other guns in the family - M2 to M6 - were designed by József Szép) The KGP-9 submachine gun was made only in small numbers because of the bad financial situation of the FÉG company and because the Hungarian police - the potentionally biggest user - didn't accept it. (rather bought foreign products) It was finally accepted by the Hungarian Army (MH) in 2004, but it's only used in very small numbers. The produced guns went mostly to detention officers in prisons.

    • @andraselias995
      @andraselias995 Před 6 lety

      And I've found much more infos (about the design history and others) which I can gladly translate for you Ian, if you're interested.

  • @Pcm979
    @Pcm979 Před 6 lety +155

    ARs, LMGs, SMGs, shotguns- is there anything the AK platform can't be used for?

    • @Govrin.
      @Govrin. Před 6 lety +8

      Pistol

    • @kh5736
      @kh5736 Před 6 lety +58

      dror kapon there are ak "pistols" in the us

    • @keyboardwarrior2145
      @keyboardwarrior2145 Před 6 lety +29

      Rocket launchers

    • @lourencoalmada1305
      @lourencoalmada1305 Před 6 lety +23

      Keyboard Warrior RPG-7 looks like an AK though...

    • @cg8212
      @cg8212 Před 6 lety +53

      I would say a shovel, but someone actually made a functional AK shovel, so I got nothing here.

  • @_Wiseguy7
    @_Wiseguy7 Před 6 lety +9

    This looks like what I'd imagine if Volvo was tasked to design an AK-based 9mm SMG.

  • @44WarmocK77
    @44WarmocK77 Před 6 lety +92

    Add a huge bayonet to it and it could be a bolter from Warhammer 40k

    • @chromicm6686
      @chromicm6686 Před 6 lety +2

      44WarmocK77 look up AGS-30

    • @CaptainGrief66
      @CaptainGrief66 Před 6 lety +11

      Mag should be comically larger, _and curved of course_

    • @blackstone1a
      @blackstone1a Před 6 lety +1

      if you think this is a Bolter go look up the Fostech Origin. just saw off the barrel and it’s pretty much one

    • @NotACutie
      @NotACutie Před 6 lety

      Scale it up significantly.

  • @hgghgguk
    @hgghgguk Před 6 lety

    It looks like a very well designed and thought out gun

  • @BigShaneGillis
    @BigShaneGillis Před 6 lety +3

    There is something to be said about the sheer beauty of the aesthetic simplicity of this smg

  • @htz11235
    @htz11235 Před 6 lety +10

    Who dislikes these videos? As cool as this channel is, it's pretty niche. Who else is finding these these videos besides the intended audience? And then disapproving of them?

  • @Procket12
    @Procket12 Před 6 lety +50

    Looks like a much blockier Walther MPL.

    • @gfhjkfghj4208
      @gfhjkfghj4208 Před 6 lety +4

      Don't think that's possible. MPL is as blocky as a gun can be while shooting round bullets. Same as G11.

    • @xmm-cf5eg
      @xmm-cf5eg Před 6 lety +5

      It's Kraut space magik meets Hungarian space witchcraft.

    • @gfhjkfghj4208
      @gfhjkfghj4208 Před 6 lety +6

      It's for the AK what the MP5 is for the G3.

    • @dillonc7955
      @dillonc7955 Před 4 lety

      To me, it reminds me of a blockier OTS-02 Kiparis with AK style sights.

  • @jeffreymcfadden9403
    @jeffreymcfadden9403 Před 6 lety

    FEG also made some fine handguns,
    the high power knock-offs,
    and the ever so unique GKK45.

  • @ThatVHS
    @ThatVHS Před 6 lety

    It's a very cool small arm and the barrel removal reminds me of the grease gun

  • @kenhelmers2603
    @kenhelmers2603 Před 6 lety

    Not a bad looking SMG - thanks Ian

  • @pauladams1814
    @pauladams1814 Před 5 lety

    Love to see it on the range.

  • @bobthelonghairedboi5425
    @bobthelonghairedboi5425 Před 6 lety +1

    I'd buy it , it looks like a fun little plinker and it looks nice too!

  • @nickwashburn723
    @nickwashburn723 Před 5 lety +1

    In reference to the front hand grip being removed, if it was meant to be used in the US then it would have to be defined as a pistol, and you can't have a vertical foregrip on a pistol because they're defined by a firearm that is designed and intended to be shot with one hand (yes, I know we all shoot handguns with two hands ideally but this is the definition in US federal law). This is why you'll never see a vertical foregrip on an AR pistol. The ATF came out and said that angled foregrips (like the magpul AFG) are OK for whatever reason, but if you put a vertical foregrip on an AR pistol it becomes a short barrelled rifle and they come after you.

  • @eduardextreme4387
    @eduardextreme4387 Před 5 lety

    Maybe if you have the chance in the future to come close to an bulgarian smg arsenal shipka,and maybe make a video about it also,it would be so nice

  • @user-vz5bu6js4p
    @user-vz5bu6js4p Před 4 lety

    I'd make the front handle thinner by about 10mm from all sides and installed short picatinny rails on both sides and the bottom. And the top cover should have the picatinny rail throughout the whole length. Also the inner parts could be simplified a lot. And that would be, basically, a perfect submachine gun. Probably better than MP5.

  • @UCSPanther20
    @UCSPanther20 Před 5 lety

    In the same concept, there is a similar idea to using VZ 58 receivers as the base for 9mm smgs, but it is unclear whether they are prototypes or one-off custom jobs.

  • @aidancloke4398
    @aidancloke4398 Před 6 lety +18

    Forgotten weapons Drinking game
    Take a shot every time Ian says AK

    • @joevidya
      @joevidya Před 6 lety

      Spitfire24 what do I drink when he brings out an actual AK to compare

    • @XtreeM_FaiL
      @XtreeM_FaiL Před 6 lety

      joetca Vodka!

    • @ScottKenny1978
      @ScottKenny1978 Před 5 lety +1

      I'd like to survive to get to the hospital, thanks!

  • @ErnestoPresso
    @ErnestoPresso Před 6 lety +5

    Always love me some hungarian weapon video

  • @OlujaDoTokija
    @OlujaDoTokija Před 6 lety

    Do you read my mind Ian? This would have been my other suggestion after the Kucher K1 :D

  • @ajorsomething4935
    @ajorsomething4935 Před 5 lety

    If you look at the kgp9 it is quite cool, the grip makes it look a lot less crude and boxy.

  • @firebarondm5529
    @firebarondm5529 Před 6 lety

    It's funny how a lot of sci fi battle rifles and carbine designs I've seen over the years look so much like this gun. Small differences here and there, but overall the same look. Also I would love to see you fire this piece.

    • @AdamWhistle1
      @AdamWhistle1 Před 6 lety

      That's probably because a lot of sci-fi authors used an AK as a reference material.

  • @Kulichenko88
    @Kulichenko88 Před 6 lety

    There was also sporting carbine version with long barrel and wooden stock.

  • @TheCokoll
    @TheCokoll Před 6 lety +1

    Jan, if you can, take a look at PP-19 Bison. It is a very similar ak-based Russian SMG with interesting cylindrical mag

  • @Razgriz85
    @Razgriz85 Před 6 lety

    I've got the PPK clone that FEG made and it's an enjoyable gun to shoot though they changed a couple things in the firing pin assembly that make taking it apart for thorough cleaning very annoying (very tiny firing pin retention spring with equally tiny cap, the hole for the ejector spring goes all the way through so it comes flying out the back when you take the firing pin out). Basically, if you want to take that apart it's best to do so while holding it inside a bag so when those damn parts come loose and go flying they end up in the bag and not lost somewhere on the floor.

    • @Razgriz85
      @Razgriz85 Před 6 lety

      Also, don't use hot ammo in that gun because the pressure will break the tiny firing pin retention spring.

  • @costantinoandruzzi2219

    This is reminiscent of Italy's Franchi LF-57 SMG, also in 9mm Para.

  • @z3223
    @z3223 Před 6 lety +39

    SMG IS FINE.

    • @xmm-cf5eg
      @xmm-cf5eg Před 6 lety +4

      NYET, we need to replace PPSH/PPS-43 with some sort of funky AK version.
      also make it 9x18 because fuck tokarev and his handgun.

  • @RealLuckless
    @RealLuckless Před 6 lety +16

    It seems rather 'user-unfriendly' to stick a safe position between two firing positions.
    Any idea on how common selector switches along the lines of full-safe-semi are used in designs rather than safe-full-semi or safe-semi-full.
    Feels like it would take a needless level of care when putting the weapon on safe if 'safe' isn't at one extreme of travel for the selector. (ie, push it 'as far as it goes' in that direction, and you're confident that you're on safe.)

    • @randywatson8347
      @randywatson8347 Před 6 lety +7

      Reminds me of my electric drill/screw machine: clockwise, safe, counterclockwise

    • @chrismorse3862
      @chrismorse3862 Před 6 lety

      +Synthusiast could even see that being the inspiration, tho was that already common in electronic drills then? I know battery technology wasn't near what we have but I'm sure features carried over from old corded ones as well
      reminds me of how when Lamborghini sent the Cheetah or whatever test version of the LM002 to the army and they wrecked it pretty quickly, and the Hummer got the deal. in theory a mid engine v12 would be the perfect vehicle but when have kids who have grown up driving front engine 4wd trucks their whole lives the family tops weight balance and whatnot!

    • @chrismorse3862
      @chrismorse3862 Před 6 lety

      +Chris Morse familiarity not family

    • @jasondoe2596
      @jasondoe2596 Před 6 lety +1

      RealLuckless, I know nothing about guns, but it really seems like a *safety nightmare* ...
      It gets even worse: If you have the semi-auto version, you've probably trained yourself to put the selector all the way to the right in order to make it safe, both for convenience and because it's actually safer on that particular version of the gun (less chance of not fully clicking into place).
      Then one day your superiors hand you the full-auto variant. Due to muscle memory, you still put it all the way to the right and leave it there. Oops!

    • @dillonc7955
      @dillonc7955 Před 4 lety

      This gun in general looks usable but doesn't look too ergonomic nor user unfriendly in general. Sort of goes with the Soviet theme ov making guns usable but stil crude.

  • @kenmvilla
    @kenmvilla Před 3 lety

    Ian wrestling with gun parts... so satisfying for some reason

  • @nigelmchugh5541
    @nigelmchugh5541 Před 6 lety

    Waiting for Capandball to come forward with some info!

  • @Optimore
    @Optimore Před 6 lety +1

    So this thing is like a hybrid of one of those weird MAC-10/Uzi cartoon combo guns and an AK. I like it.

  • @lencao4515
    @lencao4515 Před 6 lety +46

    Avtomat Kalashnikova, You are the Father!

    • @betaich
      @betaich Před 6 lety +2

      Kalashnikova would indicate a women in Russian, actually the daughter of Mr Kalashnikov, so the mother is the AK74?

    • @DankbeastPaul
      @DankbeastPaul Před 6 lety +2

      -a can also indicate that it's possessive, so he's right

    • @Tyler-uc4ye
      @Tyler-uc4ye Před 3 lety

      @@betaich it's not the same in Cyrillic

  • @1through11
    @1through11 Před 6 lety +1

    A nagymamámtól kérdeztem erről a dolgról, mivel a nagyapám egy szegedi fegyvergyárban dolgozott Szeged közelében. tudta, hogy valami korai moduláris kalashnikovról van szó

  • @DesertOwlForge
    @DesertOwlForge Před 6 lety +2

    The reason FEG used this design is their familiarity with the AK and the similar tool requirements. FEG is also a gas furnace manufacturer (or was at the time when they manufactured firearms). It was a common practice during the communism to pair ordinance manufacturing with domestic manufacturing that used similar technology.

  • @smallign
    @smallign Před 6 lety +5

    The magazine looks very much like polish pm-84 in 9mm para.

    • @smallign
      @smallign Před 6 lety +2

      blumenkameraden i know its the same cartridge but Ian mentioned that the magazine is proprietary but in my opinion it looks very much the same as pm-84. And trust me, there is a lot 9mm para guns with different magazine styles.

  • @HumbleDirtMerchant
    @HumbleDirtMerchant Před 6 lety

    I think this is the first gun I've seen where the selector favors left handers.

  • @Tripp426
    @Tripp426 Před 6 lety

    I would love to own one of these because it looks like a ton of fun to shoot. Of course it would have to be an SBR here in the U.S. which is a long process and I doubt mags for it are common or cheap. Now if there was a version without the stock or a 16" length barrel instead that would take UZI mags...now that would be awesome.

    • @AR15andGOD
      @AR15andGOD Před rokem

      You wouldn't have to register it at all. 2A says we can have whatever guns we want without any law or regulation. Stop being a nazi collaborationist.

  • @risingplunger9134
    @risingplunger9134 Před 6 lety

    looks like quite a nice little sub gun :3

  • @user-pg2if9bw4c
    @user-pg2if9bw4c Před 6 lety

    Ian, could you do a video on the Norinco/Polytech/Valmet Hunter models?

  • @randywatson8347
    @randywatson8347 Před 6 lety

    Cool simplicity.

  • @kondorviktor
    @kondorviktor Před 5 lety

    Right, KGP is supposedly a shortage for "kézi géppisztoly" where géppisztoly is compound word 'machine-pistol" not totally apart from MG in German, from where Kalshnyikov's enhancments originally started though, and being the equivalent on 'machine gun' in English.
    the F in KGPF is I suppose stabding for 'félautomata'' , 'half-automatic' that is.
    Yeah, FÉG Is for Fegyver- és Gázkészülékgyár. Plenty of gas chauffage for rooms were made there.

  • @Darth-Nihilus1
    @Darth-Nihilus1 Před 5 lety

    Ian this gun is adorable. Are these and were these ever imported into the United States

  • @baron8107
    @baron8107 Před 6 lety

    Would totally buy a pistol or rifle version of this.

  • @davidhonfi2683
    @davidhonfi2683 Před 6 lety +1

    wow i have never even heard of this thing

  • @22bjonah
    @22bjonah Před 6 lety

    Any chance we could get a video on a Korobov TKB-517? It's hard to find much about it in english.

  • @thegreenman2030
    @thegreenman2030 Před 6 lety

    I defiantly see a lot of similarities with Chiappa PAK-9 which is made in Romania by Cugir. I wish they went with the riveted mag well over the polymer one it currently uses.

  • @liamairsoft
    @liamairsoft Před 6 lety

    It appears that the hole in the bottom of the front of the receiver is for the reverse angled grip from the amd rifles

  • @user-zf4wm3qo7p
    @user-zf4wm3qo7p Před 6 lety +1

    Спасибо за отличный обзор)

  • @garetz2011
    @garetz2011 Před 5 lety

    An AK hammer using compression spring was used on the czech Skorpion (the AK hammer is, in fact, a Browning hammer; Kalashnikov just copied the Browning hammer).

  • @green2blue309
    @green2blue309 Před 6 lety

    FEG also made some pretty decent Hi Power clones.

  • @jaredhazen5864
    @jaredhazen5864 Před 6 lety

    Any chance you can get your hands on an Agram 2000? Not a lot of information out there on it and it seemes to be parroted that it is built after the Beretta PM12. Other than a passing appearance, I'm curious to know if it actually is similar.

  • @OneShotNick92
    @OneShotNick92 Před 6 lety +12

    Thats a nice smg

  • @coolaechardonnae7830
    @coolaechardonnae7830 Před 2 lety

    Looks good, if they brought these back but more rails and higher rate of fire or perhaps even a more sub compact version.

  • @BigSlanko
    @BigSlanko Před 6 lety +1

    I've seen these for sale here in Canada. Interesting how many AK similarities it has and yet we can't have most AK's (Valmet's don't count according to the horse cops).

  • @shdowhunt60
    @shdowhunt60 Před 6 lety

    I’d say this is more like an AK/Uzi hybrid. Whoever designed this clearly understood both, and was able to combine features in an exceptionally clever manner.
    I can seriously imagine this being a pleasure to shoot, it looks like a fantastic weapon. I’m pretty amazed this never came to the states, you’d think the closed bolt/hammer fired design would make it easy to make fit to our compliance laws.

    • @AdamWhistle1
      @AdamWhistle1 Před 6 lety

      I'd doubt it. It is clearly designed for minimal cost over anything else and probably as ergonomic as AK or worse. Except maybe reliability. Read up further, there are Hungarians reporting about this.

  • @AngelSamael
    @AngelSamael Před 6 lety

    Maybe we should start making every part of every gun interchangeable whenever possible. So if you break both an assault riffle and a sub machine gun at the same time you can have a working version of one of them until you get new parts.

    • @AdamWhistle1
      @AdamWhistle1 Před 6 lety

      You have summarized why the AK is the most widely used assault rifle in the world.

  • @muddlemann
    @muddlemann Před 6 lety

    I wonder if the design is more about making it easy (and fast) to build by the folks on the manufactures line.

  • @Tallmios
    @Tallmios Před 6 lety

    The wiki page for the military version (KGP-9) states it is an open-bolt blowback gun.
    I wonder whether the info there is wrong or if the civilian version has a completely different type of operation.

  • @zsebora
    @zsebora Před 6 lety

    Hey all, as for the history of the gun (translation of HU wikipedia - I am Hungarian but also couldn't find too much about this piece):
    In the '80s there was no official submachine gun in the HU armed forces, so the FÉG started to make this design in 1986, for self-defense and law enforcement purposes. The design is based on the 9x19mm Parabellum ammo.
    Designed by FÉG engineer Zoltán Horváth. First test pieces were finished in 1988, with the project-name Komondor (that is a huge HU sepherd dog). The gun passed the tests and was considered suitable for commission by the army. However due to the political changes of that time (democratic changes of '89-90 in Central Europe), it was contracted and finalized.
    The Ministry of Internal Affairs showed interest towards the gun and put it up to more tests in 1993, under the name KGP-9, these also became successful. Small batches were sent to police forces for field tests, however its reception was not without criticism so it was put aside and foreign submg.s were purchased.
    Due to financial issues of the manufacturer, it was never manufactured in bigger No.s. Its main operators currently are the prison guards and the HU army commissioned a smaller batch of it in 2004.

  • @TuckerDale89
    @TuckerDale89 Před 6 lety

    Seems like it would be easy to recreate

  • @kendon81
    @kendon81 Před 4 lety +1

    makes sense if you think about, if your military's main rifle is an AK why not make an SMG based on it so the military will be more inclined to adopt it as it would reduce training as the people it's going to be issued to will already be familiar with the AK.

  • @Aetila
    @Aetila Před 4 lety +5

    "I'm a Colombian hmm, businessman...and we like this gun!" :-)

  • @b.griffin317
    @b.griffin317 Před 6 lety

    where did you find this? with the short barrel and "non-sporting" looks it would seem to be non-importable after '89. wikipedia says it really was a hammer/floating firing pin fired, but open bolt. is this closed bolt? or did I mishear that? I bring up the firing system since that reminds of a 922r compliance approach to make it importable, but then the barrel/looks would seem to count against that. if this is marstar I can't imagine this thing ever being allowed to be imported for civilian sale by the RCMP. so I'm confused.

  • @five5105
    @five5105 Před 6 lety

    That has got to be one of the stranger sub-guns I've seen in a while.

  • @Jurflip2
    @Jurflip2 Před 3 lety

    Bolt looks pretty light, the bolt travel is short and the recoil spring is heavy. Rate of fire would have been very high, I think. The semi-auto may be quite nice.

  • @keksimus__maximus
    @keksimus__maximus Před 6 lety +6

    Bojler eladó!

  • @arthurneddysmith
    @arthurneddysmith Před 6 lety

    6:38 8:36 A trunnion is historically a cylindrical protrusion from a barrel. They are attached to the barrel (or sometimes a tilting piece). The word is also used for a part attached to a barrel that helps it seat in the gun, and in the US, to a part that the barrel sits in (often called a “mounting block”). Nonetheless, the trunnion is always associated with the mounting of a barrel, and so suggesting that there is a “rear trunnion,” as mentioned in this video, seems out of place to me.
    Oxford:
    trunnion
    /ˈtrʌnjən/
    noun. e17.
    [ORIGIN: Old French & mod. French trognon core of fruit, trunk of a tree, of unkn. origin.]
    1. Either of a pair of cylindrical projections on opposite sides of a cannon or mortar, by which it is pivoted on its carriage. e17.
    2. Either of any similar pair of opposing pins or pivots, on which a thing is supported; spec. in an oscillating steam engine, a hollow gudgeon on each side of the cylinder, on which it pivots and through which steam passes in and out. Also, a single projecting peg or pivot. e18.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trunnion?wprov=sfti1

  • @wernesgruder1
    @wernesgruder1 Před 4 lety

    Getting a mag into that housing looks difficult in the dark/wet

  • @darkmarkshadows
    @darkmarkshadows Před 6 lety

    Well, this one is kinda interesting, is it a sample? T.&E. Where is it ?stateside? I like F.E.G. products btw, good quality, usually thrifty as well, sa85 ect. Nice one,

  • @victoriavilulf5058
    @victoriavilulf5058 Před 3 lety +1

    He’s just flexing by pulling out that AK-74 as a reference point.

  • @ilyagoffman3803
    @ilyagoffman3803 Před 6 lety

    isn't it a MAT-49 magazine and socket (or whatever it is called) for magazine?

  • @joshevans5768
    @joshevans5768 Před 3 lety

    Sucks we don’t see more of these in the US, even if just a pistol version, because of the boom in pistol caliber carbines now-a-days

  • @salokin3087
    @salokin3087 Před 6 lety

    Wow, now this is a forgotten weapon

  • @TheMarci201
    @TheMarci201 Před 6 lety +3

    Actually the military police today uses this gun. I have asked two MP guys on the streets of Budapest.

  • @MidnightSky69
    @MidnightSky69 Před 3 lety

    Thats a decent looking gun!

  • @herschelrosenberg5172
    @herschelrosenberg5172 Před 6 lety

    the front of the mag well looks very much like an uzi. like the feed ramp and how the barrel looks into the ramp and front trunnion. it is a lovechild of uzi and ak. love from Israel Ian

  • @negativepositive5263
    @negativepositive5263 Před 5 lety

    Is this really the inspiration for Scout’s Smg?