How Ferrari can get payback for F1's 'stupidest' penalty
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- After receiving one of the most unlucky F1 penalties in recent memory, Ferrari still has TWO shots at payback.
Carlos Sainz copped a very controversial 10-place grid penalty for the Las Vegas Grand Prix after sustaining major damage because of a track fault, just a few minutes into the new race’s first ever practice session.
Sainz struck a loose water valve inspection cover in FP1, which badly damaged his car’s floor, chassis, seat and engine.
Ferrari had to give Sainz a new battery among his replacement engine parts, which triggered an automatic 10-place drop because doing so exceeded his seasonal allocation for that component for the first time.
EVEN the stewards knew this was massively harsh, acknowledging “the damage was caused by highly unusual external circumstances” and admitting they WOULD have waived the penalty if only they had a legitimate way to do so.
It sparked universal sympathy for Sainz and a few choice criticisms of the rules, the officials and the apparent political motivations of Ferrari’s rivals, for exactly WHY this penalty needed to be dished out and COULDN’T just be dismissed in such a freak scenario.
00:00 Bad luck
02:11 Decision explained
04:45 Payback?
06:50 More rules trouble
Subscribe: the-race.com/youtube_subscribe
Website: the-race.com/
Twitter: @wearetherace
Instagram: @wearetherace
Facebook: / wearetherace
Podcasts: the-race.com/podcasts
Thanks for watching - please like, share and comment, please also hit subscribe to show your support so we'll keep doing what we're doing.
www.the-race.com
/ wearetherace
#f1 #ferrari #carlossainz #sainz #lasvegas #lasvegasgp #formula1 #f1news #f12023 #mercedes #formulaone #grandprix #therace - Sport
The damage was not caused by "highly unusual external circumstances" it was caused by a inadequate inspection and testing to track safety by the FIA - they needs to answer for this! It happens way too often - it's gonna seriously injure or kill somebody one day.
Move up Sainz 10 places in the result! 😈
@@ehsnils That would mean a win, lol.
Unfortunately its not that easy to KNOW a cover isn't secure enough - they take all the usual steps, and it looks good by eye when they walk the track. But as you are not bringing in the airframe stress analysis tools (all the non destructive ways to verify the welds are good, there is no crack in the castings, the concrete doesn't have a void etc) to check every single possible flaw in the surface of the track. It would take way way too long and cost way too much. The real reliable solution is to not have anything but tarmac on the road surfaces and then run an Exhibition F1 (or other high downforce high power car) race over it on Wednesday to be sure the surface isn't going to break up etc - which either means street circuit die or end up becomes a nightmare to maintain for the city outside of race weekends as all these features you need can't be there or have to keep getting put back in!
*It happens way too often* Well no unless you think that any occurrence of this is once too often. Yes It happens every once in a while It's been quite a few years 2016 since Rosberg's car sucked one up in Monaco only for Button to smash into it.
It shouldn't happen but it does but not that often
@@foldionepapyrus3441not having them would prevent it from being sucked…just saying.
the thing that bothers me the most about this is not only the penalty he received, but the actual danger he was put in, his goddamn seat broke! there was a hole in his car. he could've been severely injured or even dead. f1 need to be held accountable for this.
I wonder if they gave him a 200$ gift voucher as well
$50 gift voucher for the F1 gift shop.
$200 voucher for new seat
All he got was a kick up the hole.
POLITICS ALWAYS WIN!! Whether we like it or not!! F1 is a big name so thats that..
If we don’t do away with this 5 second nonsense, Fernando will make a point by running P2 in Monaco and cut the swimming pool chicane, saving 5 seconds as it is and gaining a position and finally getting his first win since ‘13.
Its used to be forcing a driver off track etc you'd get a drove thru/stop go penalty. These days its 5sec 4 everything
@@captaintoyota3171 Yeah I remember when Lewis did something similar to what Max did last race at the 2008 Japanese GP on Kimi and got a drive through for it Also Mark Webber on Rubens at the 2009 German GP got a drive through as well
The penalty should be one place docked at the end of the race, or a drive-through. A position penalty would hurt more than a time penalty.
@@captaintoyota3171they still give heavier penalties for forcing a driver off track but not when it is on the first corner on the first lap. And i don’t think they should either just look at the norris incident the track was simply dangerously slippery the first few laps.
F1 should learn fron this en change the date or time they race there since the combination of these circumstances is going to cost a life in the future especially if they want to ban tyre warmers alltogether.
@@captaintoyota3171 Also add no DRS allowed for the rest of the race.
Verstappen claiming that giving the place back would have cost him 5 seconds of race time is exactly the reason the penalty is not harsh enough. If any penalty costs a driver the same amount of time as the action that would make him avoid it, it has no punishing effect. Drivers never gain 5 seconds when going off track limits multiple times, but they stand to lose more than the time they gain and that is the reason they try to stay within the track
Yes but its not about time gain or time loss, its the fact that he was able to overtake Leclercl with an illegal move, allowing him to run 16 laps with fresh air in the lead, still Leclerc got him before he served the Penalty soo imagine how it would have been if Leclerc was in the lead
@@DanyFive_ Yeah, I'm saying that the reason the penalty is in place is to deter anyone from taking (or keeping) a position illegally. Giving it up costs you about 5 seconds and increases temperatures and wear, but even if it meant losing 5 seconds and having the same management over a race it would still be reason enough to warrant harsher penalties.
I think that the 5 seconds AND a penalty point on their licence would be a good deterrent. So if they make a mistake in not giving the place back, penalty point.
@@snivels Yeah, but even if a driver accumulates 3-5 penalty points per season, they would still need to find themselves in a scenario like that far too often for this to be effective. My opinion is that they should be ordered to return the place, no matter how many cars have passed the driver who was wronged, or are behind them. If they don't, a ridiculous penalty should be applied, even a DT.
It doesnt matter in the end. He lost the lead anyway and still had to serve the 5 seconds. Even Leclerc agreed with the penalty. And if it was vice versa, then Ferrari wouldve told Leclerc to stay up front and serve 5 seconds on the pit.
If one must get mad at someone, then put the blame on FIA for having a very loose interpretation of the penalty. Either give up the lead or serve 5 seconds. It shouldve been more firm. It is what it is.
Sainz wasn't unlucky, someone didnt do their job, Sainz paid for it, and Mercedez benefitted from it. He was lucky to walk away from it unscathed, Monza F3 2019 was a lot slower and a lot worse. Liberty can be glad Ferrari isn't suing them. FIA has lost all their integrity with this decision. Cannot call it sport, it is complete bullshit. And Toto to brush it under the rug during the press conference without acknowledging that his team is gaining in the constructors. It is the worst decision I have ever seen in F1, Masi is off the hook.
So why is toto now the bad one here? It’s a competition, you don’t just start handing things out to teams to help them out, defeats the whole purpose of competing
@@ishqiahmed4315all team principals, except Toto, agreed that the penalty should be waved. Merc benefited because of this, THAT is what makes Toto the nasty one.
@@abbofun9022 yeah and everyone else would do the same if they were in the fight for p2, Horner would’ve probably threatened to leave f1, Zak would’ve probably written a letter to the fia, and u wouldn’t hear the end of it from alonso
Ferrari can't sue cause they have no basis to sue on. Nothing in the regulations or rulesets was broken or violated, and it was Merc who had the power to keep the penalty withheld and done so like they should of. Any team in Mercs position would of done the exact same, even Ferrari would of if it happened to Merc. So stop acting like you know how F1 works. 🤡
Seems like your emotions are preventing you from realizing that your alternative means Ferrari would gain an advantage over the rest of the grid. And, if it were like that, teams could then start doing it on purpose.
"Oops, I drove over a drain cover kinda fast when there was already a yellow flag. Hey Stewards, can I use some brand new replacement parts without receiving penalties for going over part limits?"
A competitor crashes into you, you still have to pay for repairs, you still have to take penalties for going over part limits. How is this any different?
Ironically when it came to the matter of reimbursing fans forced to leave the stands before practice two was finally held F1 claimed the delay in repairing and examining the track was caused by a “Force Majeur”.
Adding a rule saying damage done by a track defect seems like a rather simple fix to the issue going forward. Things like water valves sticking up or a sudden fault in the road etc. I do see already a gray area when it comes to things like curbs where a team argues they are unsuitable for the car or caused tire damage but that seems less of a defect and more of an intentional design choice. If your tires cant survive going over the curbs we put in.....dont go over the curbs.
Drive throughs need to come back. Served within 3 laps of the ruling.
Make it like assetto corsa competitzione, why not?
A drive through for 4 minor track cuts is ridicoulus, but for an illegal overtake it sounds reasonable.
If it wasn't for the Yellow Flag then Sainz would have been going faster and the car would have been lower, causing even more damage and potentially causing Sainz severe injury.
It looks as though Ocon caused the drain to lift slightly as they had to change Ocon's car.
Yip, you could hear him lift in the onboard footage. He reacted to the yellow, but usually drivers are on the lookout for other cars in that situation, not drain covers that are the same colour as the rest of the track ahead of them.
15 second penalty for Ocon.
I like how F1 stewards can sometimes interpret rules loosely for certain teams but are very literal and by the book for others.
Fails to inspect and test track.
Nearly cripples a driver.
Gives driver a penalty.
10/10.
I think it's crazy that with so many billions of dollars in this sport and an army of people working for the sport, they can't get this things right. The pentaly system it's flaud and needs to be updated , it's starting to ruing the racing because all these loopholes that everyone takes advantage off. How can it be that someone ruins one's race by putting them in the barriers and they still get to finish on the podium or in the points ?
Imagine that one of the transport trucks gets into an accident and damage their cars or sea freight lose the container overboard. Need to replace parts or the whole car? Penalties!
Merc would crash them trucks on purpose just to change parts. If you've watched DTM at some point, you know what I'm talking about. Since Brawn is gone, Merc is a very unsportsmanlike team.
It's truly ridiculous.
@@axemanracing6222the most unsportsman fans like you calling merc unsportsmanlike 😂 absolutely hilarious
Because we all know how sportsmen like it is for fia to break rules against merc eg 2021 but you had no problem with that 🤡
Actually yes. They are only allowed X parts per season.
If you were to judge Toto by the Race's videos, you'd think he's been wearing that coat for seven months.
Didn’t he?
doesnt he? LULE
I C BAJS ForsenE@@The666opal111
@@The666opal111doesn't matter either way mumu the cow
I think that the FIA should've been more lenient with Sainz and the manhole cover fiasco.
it was obvious that Merc at least tried to benefit from blocking Ferrari's 'free' repair.
Max being vocal about the penalty was a nice move, but RBR clearly and deliberately took advantage of the first corner nonsense. Leclerc's immediate petition on the radio fell to deaf ears with the stewards unfortunately. the late five second penalty was a slap in the face to Ferrari, as their race could've turned out differently.
probably Max would have had the upper hand anyways, but at least practice a bit of sportsmanship.
One of the most infuriating things for me is that statement the FIA made said they know there's an issue with the current regulations in that the penalty had to be applied because they had no other choice but since it's happened we've heard nothing about any plans of trying to fix it so it doesn't happen again.
Literally feel for Sainz and Ferrari on this one... Ridiculous that "nothing" could be done... It's a decision, not a life or death situation.
Thus it'll be very sweet when Ferrari dominates alongside RBR next year
I feel bad not just the penalty but the budget cap
that’s what people don’t consider. redbull already spent extra on their old car (the catering excuse makes no sense because everyone else had to pay for it so the extra money 100% went into the car)
they literally reached a point where they have the fastest car and got a penalty so small it won’t hurt their 2024. thanks to the extra money they spent they were so good in 2023 they didn’t have to spend anything on upgrades and could keep that for 2024’s car. ridiculous and will kill the sport
You can also just take somebody compely out of a race with a crash and would only get a 5sec while they would be sitting on the repair bill and might get a bigger penalty for the replacement parts
That's the Merc steategy, won them the constructors championship in 2021. Toto's dirty tricks are about to give another undeserved position for Merc in constructors standings this year.
@@patepulkkinenvtec2403Let’s just hope justice is served and Ferrari get the job done in Abu Dhabi
That's exactly what Lewis did to Max in the 2021 British Grand Prix - punted him into the fence, took his 5 seconds penalty from the bargain basement, and went on to win. It taught Max about what's considered acceptable behaviour, and his response came at the end of the season. Toto's turn to whinge. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.
Perez at Singapore this year 🫤
@@brianvogt8125 It was 10 seconds, but u are completely right. The fia has got to be more cracking down on behavior like that. They also have to take more responsibility for incidents like Sainz’s.
5 seconds for pushing someone wide, by accident, on extremely cold tires, NOT contacting them, and not otherwise interfering with their race is a perfectly fair penalty. It is enough to dissaude drivers from intentionally doing it.
Additionally, between the great reflexes of Leclerc and good decision to not fight the understeer and risk a spin and subsequent crashes, the response to the mistake was perfect from both drivers.
Leclerc was REALLY impressive this weekend btw. What a drive, especially with the treacherous conditions. Braking late like that lap after lap and not messing up is nuts.
love these analyses, good work 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Making the damage on Sainz's car all about a "possible" Mercedes appeal which you point out that you don't know it would come is such a weird approch that takes the blame away from the true perpetrators
what an odd thing to say that Verstappen still is on about the 2021 crash, he's just speaking his mind as he was doing all weekend and he was right about it too
Not like Wolff and Hamilton are still crying daily about the same year is it?
Yeah only thing i needed to see to know this guys delusional. So many insane f1 fans cant talk without bringing up verstappen or hamilton drama. Its embarrassing
Max only cares about Max
If I was Max, Silverstone incident would have been on my mind. So many similarities: needing to take a grid penalty due to the fault of someone else, and surprise surprise, Mercedes benefitting from all of this.
He's trying to downplay this and say Max is just out for himself. Clearly he doesn't understand how Max thinks.
Silverstone 2021 - Hamilton crashes Vertappen out of the race, got a 10 second penalty and still won and got fastest lap.
Ricciardo in Mexico last year, pushed tsunoda off, got a 10 second penalty but finished so far ahead he even overtook other cars and gained a lot of position.
Both cases the penalty was worthless.
Then, this year, Sainz got a 5 second penalty in Australia and dropped massive positions beacuase the race endend with everyone close togheder.
This penalty system makes no sense, encourages drivers to push slower cars of.
Start giving 2 place, 3 place, 5 place penalties for people who don't give the positions back.
I lay this incident entirely at the feet of the FIA, and it's DISGUSTING that they have the nerve to maintain the penalty
MV confirms how F1 is far from being a sport
Im having a tough time understanding why there's still a certain allocation on PU components for the season. The intention was to cut down on costs. The cost cap already does that, so why is the allocation part still a thing?
Teams using new components means spending more money so why isn't that just included in the cost cap? Still baffled by this 3 years into the cap era...
True
The track was in unsafe conditions. They failed the inspection part made by the FIA. This is a totally different situation compared to when Hamilton kicked out Max in 2021.
The FIA failed basic procedures and Sainz ate poop because of it. It's not unlucky, it's incompetence that lead to this in the first place. FIA should be ashamed.
Incident a side, I don't think there should be any penalties for power unit components currently. Given the fact that there is a budget cap in place.
3:43 "beside or partly on track" nope, it is fully on the track, and invisble from the driver's view
“If you don’t shoot for a gap, your not a racing driver” something like that
If you don´t go for a gap that exists, you´re no longer a racing driver - Ayrton Senna
The penalty for Sainz was harsh but consistent with current (bad) rules. As Max said, if another car had hit him (something we see more often than the track damaging cars) rather than a piece of the circuit, the penalty would have been the same. The current rules do not depend on what caused a component to fail to need a replacement, whether it's bad manufacturing, a self-inflicted crash, contact with another car, a failing part of the track or otherwise.
honestly i understand why they couldnt do anything.
it might be clear in this case, but just earlier, Andrea Stella claimed Norris crash was because of a bump in the track, which i dont quite buy, since no other car seemed to have any issues with that corner, it looked more like a mechanical issue that made the rears lock?
but imagine they would have let sainz off, and now mclaren claimed their situation was the same (damage to the car and potentially having to swap parts because of a supposed track fault).
i think F1 does not wanna open that can of worms.
I think that's a little bit different: the bump is there and will stay there for everyone, while the manhole cover should have stayed there but it didn't and ruined a driver's race...
@@misterv1465 despite it being different it can still hold the same precedent, by no means am I saying that the penalty is unfair because I do think it is, but i get why they couldnt do much, because if you allow one incident, many others will object to other incidents.
@@misterv1465 the problem is not how it is, but how you can interpret it. nobody else had issue with a bump, most people have been saying it was a weak excuse from mclaren.
one team says the track damaged their car, the other teams say, no, it was your cars issue, endless arguing ensues
I wish you guys wld do a video on how your using (I think) AC to make content & talk about the mods that have revolutionized that sim . Thx🤘🏼🏁
Regarding the 5-second penalty... Maybe the rules should be changed that the team is not allowed to get any equipment and tyres out before the penalty is served.
or just make it 10 seconds, that has the potential to add extra risk as people rush around a hot car
The closing sentence sums it up perfectly
australia 2023: this is the harshest penalty i've ever received
vegas 2023: hold my casino chips
1. Driver commits infraction. Penalty will be applied.
2. Average driver’s last three lap times. Add five seconds. This is the time for the “penalty lap.”
3. The driver gets three laps to drive a lap which matches or is slower than the penalty lap time. If you fail, you get black-flagged. Alternatively, they can lose the same amount of time over the course of the same three laps.
This way drivers actually have to give up track position instead of benefitting from their infraction
How teams given a role effectively as "referees of the sport" that they are participating in is beyond me. Referees should be independent and impartial, their participation in the sport does not make them independent or impartial.
Funny how the sky media didn’t say one word about Mercedes wanting a penalty, if it was redbull who were against Ferrari then sky would’ve blowing it up
You obviously didn’t watch the video. Nothing Mercedes could have done would’ve change the outcome of the stewards decision.
Incorrect, even Sky repeatedly said that "a team that is challenging [Ferrari] for the second place in the championship" was against a waiver of the penalty
They clearly alluded to Mercedes being the one that was the only team against the waiver. Still a bit lame they didn't just come out and say it.
They need to make it a stop and go or like a 15 second penalty for pushing drivers off the road and overtaking.
bring back drive through, i think it was better, because they all were aware of this and happend not that often as those silly 5sek penalties. maybe they should have more ways to punish, so teams could not plan with penalties that easy (:
Rule of the law VS spirit of the law:
Spirit of the law is to make teams produce more reliable and more lasing cars, and not replace main components all the time.
If the component failure is not caused by driver error, or could not be avoided by driver action, then he deserves a penalty.
This could be avoided as he was noted by yellow flag.
But, if he was the first driver to be affected by the loose drain cover, and there were no caution falgs, and he was driving on racing line, he is not at fault.
"99% show, 1% sport" - Max Verstappen
I believe that F1/FIA should focus more on promoting sportsmanship; otherwise, F1 risks becoming nothing more than a mere spectacle. Just a comment from an F1 fan who hopes it becomes better in a good way.😄
Sainz & Ferrari faced penalties for incompetence of F1. Stefano Dominicalli needs to go not only this case but multiple times in last 2 seasons.
This penalty needs to change. The penalty should have been for FIA for an unsafe track
Max is not a toxic child like Toto or Lulu, he's not holding on to angst from 2021 about a penalty but actually giving his opinion about Carlos's penalty.
He directly benefited from the farse in 2021... why would Max be angry or holding a grudge on that. If Lewis had won you could bet that hed be holding a grudge. You only need to look to last year where he took revenge on perez multiple times for things that happened in races
LMAO when max does it its just an opinion but if Lewis or anyone else does it it's childish 😂 your double standards are beyond childish 🤡 even a child has better standards than you max 🤡s
Delusional max fans 🤣🤣🤣
He's more savage than toxic
you're right about everything there, except for Max not being a toxic child 😅
The problem with a 5s penalty is also the fact that the FIA takes their sweet time dishing out penalties. So teams can quickly calculate if it's gonna fit them.
The rule should be: Immediatly give back the position or get a 10s stop and go. (Forcing a driver to actually take the 5s at the pitstops).
The fact that FP1 highlights aren’t even available from the F1 CZcams channel when F1 is the main rights holder for the LV GP for me at least shows that they don’t want to be under scrutiny for this. And if you want to hide, you probably did something wrong…
an interesting concept they could look into to combat the problem of a time penalty taking too long before it impacts the race, could be for example limiting the battery deployment for an amount of laps after the offence is committed
Karma coming for Merc
Hopefully. They don't deserve P2
I love how every team I heard were pretty in favour of waiving Sainz's penalty, bar one...stay classy.
The 5-sec penalty isn't sufficient enough to deter drivers from making those kinds of moves. I think the simplest solution is to go Massi style and quickly get on the radio to ask the team to hand the place back or risk a harsher penalty. Drivers will always flout right up to the letter of the law if they think they'll gain an advantage.
1:30 Great now we know that is Toto Wolf and Mercedes that orchestrated this injustice. Now we know who to punish.
There should be a force majeure in place for damage to cars due to deficiencies on track and not due to a fault of the team or driver.
This situation (in addition to others over the last 2 years...) are really calling into question the legitimacy of F1's claim of being the "pinnacle of motorsport." Such a pinnacle sport wouldn't behave like this.
That was the best and most well rounded video you guys have done about the Vegas weekend
FIA should start looking into ways to introduce live penalties. When given a penalty, drivers have 30 seconds to move off the racing line and when they do so, their power is cut 50% for 5 seconds or a time that seems fitting. Then, they can rejoin when the power is restored.
What if Sainz had been injured? Would they still have received a penalty?
It's all absurd.
Another big problem is the cost cap and that Ferrari has to pay for the repairs themselves
I still feel the FIA should not penalised Sainz. The damage was due to track issues (which they did not foresee or did enough to mitigate), leading to an unavoidable change of parts. If anything the cost and changes should be written off. But well, not even a Sorry.
What app is that at 3:27? 👀
Sky hasn’t even spoken one word of Merc’s intention to appeal. 😂
When did Sports Channels broadcasting all sorts of sports are suppose to make f1 exclusive analysis on every small detail?
@@SevastousNo no, he's one of those delusional "British Bias" fan let him cook.
@@NotAcvp3lla Weird how anyone else easily see that but the brits. Just like when they talk about democracy but have one of their chambers filled with hereditary peers.
@@Rimpianto Jokes on you dude, I'm not even British.
Were you saying the same when they were quiet about Marco's comments on Perez and RB's non-response?
Michael Massi was allowed to make a championship changing decision which was upheld even though it was totally wrong. The Vegas race director should grow a pair, he should have made an executive decision NOT to penalise Sainz. You can't base decisions on how other teams might react FFS !! The track itself had the issue, it wasn't Ferarri's fault, they were the victim, it seems F1 struggle to recruit anyone with even a grain of common sense.
Since no one else is going to say it; Stroll has turned into Prime Massa overnight.
😂😂😂
Grew facial hair and remembered how to drive lol
The beard makes it hard to windowlick
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 Maybe it's like that Star Trek (or South Park) episode and the goatee means he's the evil Stroll who can actually drive from another universe. Explains why he shoved his engineer.
@@drunkenhobo8020 🤣🤣🤣🤣 can the real Lance Strolovitch please stand up lol
One of the worst GO races I’ve ever seen, it was like watching a race in a supermax prison, bloody awful.
If this ever happen to Mercedes, I really hope Toto will be graceful and humble about it
“Micheal noooooo!” 😂
This has nothing to do with Mercedes? Its literally stated in the video & from the FIA themselves that unfortunately the rules do not allow for such unfortunate & bizarre circumstances, so the penalty has to be served. Imagine they just waved away this penalty even though its not in the rules to do so, they would open themselves up for all kinds of legal action.
@@MrBuurhhave you seen totos ridiculous outburst against the journalist. Man was talking like a dickhead.
He would be fuming
im pretty suer the teams had a say if Ferrari should be penalised and Mercedes said yes. they don't want to have a Championship battle with Ferrari so their looking for any advantage they can get @@MrBuurh
Regards the 5 second penalty, F1 needs to implement the Long Lap that Moto GP uses. It costs the competitor about 5 seconds, but also forces them to give up track position since they only get 3 laps to do it.
I also think this would work well. I just wonder about how realistic it is for every track to have a 'long lap', especially street circuits
@@Mister0Eel Except for Monaco every track's got some kind of run off/ring road going round the edge that could be adapted, even Singapore and Baku. Just not having it for Monaco would be an acceptable compromise to me, Monaco already doesn't meet a bunch of track homologation standards.
What you’re describing is called a drive-through penalty in F1 and most 4-wheeled motorsport.
@@fix0the0spade definitely fair enough, didn't know about Baku and Singapore!
A variation on the 'Long Lap' is you lose DRS until you serve the penalty. Or instead of a 5 second penalty if you have a 'gaining advantage penalty' the stewards have an optional penalty of disabling DRS for the rest of the race. If Max was faced with 90% of the race w/o DRS he would have given the place back.
Either that or just accept that getting a 5 second penalty is just part of the game and carry on.
A sport where they change the rules on the last lap of the 2021 season and nothing was done about the result, yet now apparently for something so trivial they can't let one slip. The hypocrisy of F1 is immeasurable
It's exactly because F1 was too lax with the rules in 2021, suffering a nasty fan backlash that still hasn't abated, that F1 and the FIA adopted a "by the book, no deviation" stance like this. Part of that also comes from the new FIA president's first crisis being that same 2021 season, since he was determined to put his personal stamp on his new office by saying, "I'm not like the previous administration. I'm going to bring integrity back to the FIA. Abiding by the rules as written is how we'll do that." Very mixed results on that one, in my opinion, given the underwear and jewelry saga that followed.
The only problem with the 5 sec penalty is they try to make it cover too many things. We need more cases for 10 second penalties. A 10 sec penalty would be more appropriate in cases like Max's in LV and in a lot of cases prevent the scenario where they "disappear down the road", and the 3 sec penalty could be very useful too. In the case of Sainz in Melbourne when he got 5 sec and lost 4 places cause they were all so tight after the safety car, they could have applied a 3 sec penalty then. It's not as cut and dry as one penalty fits all these days.
I don't think it is possible with F1, however MotoGP's approach of long lap penalty served within 3 laps or do it twice works well there. Not as aggressive as a drive through, normally only adds 2-5 seconds on a lap depending on the track but it's immediate (or at least within 3 laps) so tends to put you into traffic and so the impact is actually greater than just the extra time in the lap. Of course, bikes are smaller so you can have those sections. Pretty sure most tracks couldn't redesign to add a long lap section for an F1 car. It would be nice to have some sort of equivalent though.
"alright boys we hit 10 minutes. abruptly cut the video to the end title."
They have 2 weeks to check the track, after Brazil. Even with 2 weeks , the guys who suppose to inspect the track mess it up. They dump al their resource into making Las Vegas Grand Prix a money making money instead of the well-being of the drivers.
Sainz shouldn't have been given a penalty for what was a fault with the track. As for the issue with Mercedes complaining, Ferrari have never been shy when it comes to complaining to gain an advantage. Bring back drive through penalties 😊
I believe the "gaining an advantage" penalty should be 1 place. So the driver can give the place back or lose one place at the end of the race. Their choice.
Also, I lost all respect for verstappen when he said "send them my regards". Disrespect for the referees is an offence in all sports.
If only Toto's effect on the Mercedes brand value could be calculated. By now the number is probably so far in the red even BMW and VAG are starting to get worried about it spreading to German brands in general.
Yep, the man is a walking monument of unlikability.
So the differences in opinions are entirely based on an ability to feel empathy.
That leaves Toto out
Immediate drive-through penalties, to be served on the next lap.
We should try to have a joker lap where the penalized drivers need to go through a variant of the track that's 5-10s slower, where possible.
It’s both a blessing and a curse that motor racing is an uncompromising test of the spectrum of physics. If any aspect of the environment is compromised for any reason the result will vary from destruction to fatality. Indycar lost Dan Wheldon to Las Vegas showmanship. F1 allowed the hucksters too much leeway in track preparation and Ferrari got a broken car because of it. Instead of praising the driver’s talent for damage control in a perilous situation they shifted blame with a penalty. The fact is they got lucky.
It feels like the argument for the stewards to throw their hands up because it would have been appealed to the FIA is a case of “doing nothing being worse than doing something.” The benefit the sport could have gotten through the appeal process was a definitive judgement on how to handle cases like this in the future. Its happed three times in recent history, and is likely to happen again at some point.
As for the MV penalty, I think it was obvious that he had no intention of making that corner, it just wasn’t going to happen. He’s done it time and time again. There need to be stricter rules governing driver conduct, both in the race and upon review post-race. It’s so frustrating, as a fan, to watch him dive bomb competitors with zero intention of making the corner himself. This should have been addressed after Saudi ‘21
I didn't know we had someone with the ability to read minds 💀. You are wasting on your talents on F1, mate 🤣🤣.
Used to be a drive thru or a stop n go for "dangerous" driving forcing another driver off. That stopped it pretty quick
@@darrenjohn8524When it happens over and over again with the same driver, how can you not? Especially when he makes smartass comments over the radio because he knows it won’t hurt him in the long run, I mean if he lost the race so what? Both titles are clinched. I’m an MV fan he’s the next Michael/Lewis, but this rule seems to be exploited time and time again, to the point drivers are joking about it on the radio.
@@darrenjohn8524 it doesnt take a mind reader to know how verstappen drives. this year and last he has had an unchallengeable car, for the most part. but when the car beside you is at least a fair match, thats when MV shows his dirty side. all through 21, whenever he had the inside line going into T1 on the first lap, he drove at the corner and not into it. the net result was [usually] lewis hamilton going off the track because he was prevented from making the turn. so no mind reading necessary to know what verstappen was going to do, its in his dirty nature!
@@random-person1 Still Salty over 2021 I see. Face the facts, verstappen did what Hamilton used to do to rosberg 🤣🤣. Are you saying that Hamilton is a dirty driver as well🤣🤣?
Can you imagine Ferrari under the Old Man putting up with this..?
Ah, but Ferrari is ALWAYS under the old man hahaha
In saying that. If you have an engine/Battery that is damaged toward the end of the season due to to a similar incident, the performance gain would be significant.
Error 404 : Common sense not found
The rule whilst well intended doesnt have the punch you expect it to nowadays. The penalty must be increased in ways, first the position must be relinquished and then a min 10 sec penalty must be applied at the next pit stop. Noting that if the driver was on a one stop strategy then a stop and penalty can be applied. The teams need something to thwart them from thinking of their best case scenario, whilst leaving the stewards some flexibility to impose a time penalty thats commiserate with the transgression.
My solution would've been driven by pure common-sense:
1- The team would be allowed to replace the damaged PU components, without penalty, but would only be allowed to use engine modes already planned prior to the event or modes consistent with the age of the replaced components.
2- The cost of the PU replacement parts would be split in two equal parta between the team and the responsible entity (FIA for approving the track? The promoter for doing an inadequate job? That would have to be sorted out between them).
3- The team would be able to reproduce the damaged chassis parts, at the team's expense, but outside of the budget cap.
Lol... The same happened so many times to Lewis while Mercedes was dominating the action, amazing that you nor the TV pundits don't recall that!
Every 1st timer at Las Vegas walked away thinking Ferrari was robbed and that Verstappen was a dirty racer. Good luck getting rid of that label champ.
The first safety car before Max was given the 5 second penalty was the perfect time to switch the cars, the stewards were given an opportunity on a plate to do the right thing and like usual they missed it.
The "Verstappen lost an engine in Silverstone, therefore he wants the rules changed", is very very cheap reasoning.
Ferrari can use the fact that the incident was ruled "preventable" against the track when they go looking for compensation, in that respect it may have been worth the penalty.
Payback needed:
(a) Ferrari should have just completed two laps. This season is over anyway. The spectators were not at all pleased with the amazing lack of organisation.
(b) All teams should insist that Las Vegas has no place in the calendar.
(c) Sue the circuit for life threatening injuries and damage which has no just a financial cost but the cost exacerbated by the cost cap.
The simple way to settle illegal overtakes is to require the driver making the illegal overtake to give let the other driver overtake back, even if 10 laps have passed and there are now more cars in between them
They should add a honour system to f1 if you do something wrong to another driver you have 2 laps to rectify it if not drive through penalty. Harsher penalties but more chance for drivers to make it right
It already works that way - but only with a 5 sec. penalty, clearly not enough. I second the drive through.
Lmfao, ameeica loves earning that tilte...😂😂😂
Standard compensation for teams if tracks are at fault for damages on cars.
Council to hear if unjust penalties should be imposed or revoked against drivers where teams can bring up evidence and argue.
Time penalties must be served as a pit stop within a certain amount of laps unless 90% of the race is completed otherwise another penalty will be applied onto it and furthermore penalties can be applied.
Just my take on how to improve it even tho none asked for it
no possibilities for a penalty lane on the the finish straight (or any safe part of the track) where they have to drive at pit limiter for the penalty time the next lap they go through?
What you’re describing is called a pitlane drive-through penalty in F1 and most 4-wheeled motorsport. It’s already in practice.
@@alias19 issue with pitlane drive through is you cant scale the punishment and is only fixed at the full length of the pitlane, with a penalty lane you just need the person to slow down to pit speed for the designated time ie:5 sec, 10sec, 15 sec and move along . This also removes agency for the drivers to negate penalties through strategy. I would say the best comparison would be the Grand Turismo penalty system but in reality where ghosting doesn't exist.
@@Cecil97 Infinitely scaleable as stop-and-go. Already in place. It’s a penalty: why should a team or driver be given the opportunity to nullify it?
@alias19 but it's not, the minimum of just a drive through would still cost like 20 seconds or something
@@Cecil97 Remember, we’re looking for penalties _longer_ than the 5-second time penalty, which is currently the shortest available. A pit stop might take 20 seconds, but a drive through is at least 5+ seconds faster.
ETA: again, why should a penalized driver/team be allowed to nullify the impact of a penalty?
5 seconds is such a joke, man. Especially in the many cases over the year where another driver's race was completely ruined and turned into a DNF. Back in the day, you had drivethroughs, 20 second penalties, stop and go's. THOSE were real penalties that made drivers think twice. Everybody complains about how "dirty" drivers were back then, but nowadays it feels just as bad when you have these balsa wood gates in front of them and success.
NO MICHAEL NO ! Toto on the phone as soon as a dispensation was mentioned! Make no mistake , Mercedes blocked Ferrari .
very well described
Hmmm. So I remember a few years ago a race director being sacked of interpreting the rules in a way that allowed the last lap of the race to under green flags. Now we want the race director to ignore the rules. What should happen is for Ferrari to be compensated for the FIA’s incompetence when certifying the track as safe.