In the fall if 1964 I ordered a new '65 GTO. It was a Nightwatch blue coupe with a black interior, 3x2bbl, close-ratio 4 speed, 3.90 limited-slip rear end, and a heavy-duty suspension. It also had a breakerless transistor ignition and metallic brakes. I also ordered an early "cold air package" which I installed later. After driving it for a while, I took it up to Royal Pontiac and had Milt Schornack convert it to a "Royal Bobcat". Jardine headers and Traction-Masters with M & H slicks completed the package. I removed part of its grillwork to install two GE #4537 aircraft landing lights and air horns from a GI "duce and a half" (an Army 2 1/2 ton truck) so it was distinctive to say the least!. I worked at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Green Bank, WV and enjoyed driving it through the mountains. Later, I worked in Charlottesville, VA and frequently drove it (fast) between Charlottesville and Green Bank. Now and then drove it in "BB Stock" at the West Side Speedway in Waynesboro, VA. Those were fun days! I transferred my GTO to a friend when I moved to AZ in 1970. I wonder whatever happened to this car?
I was so lucky to have had a great conversation with this man back in 1999. I had no idea who I was talking to at first. But after about 45 minutes of car talking, I introduced myself then I asked his name. He said it was Jim. I immediately knew it was the Godfather of the GTO from all the books I read. What a down to earth person he is. Thanks Jim, for all you done for the sport.
Genius. I like the way he thinks. The things he discribes are the main things people do now a days to pontiac engines that are fairly stock and beyond. My grandpa "Moon Mullins" was into it. His 65 GTO ran consistant 12.8s with slicks, headers and his tune. I think it was a 421 b/c of performance and he said way back that it was a 376hp engine. It also went 13.0 pure stock on redlines. Tripower close ratio 3.90.
Wangers is a hero to any lover of the Golden Age for Pontiac- '57-'77. They were some of the most durable and beautifully styled cars ever. The GTO in particular grabbed your eyes and would not let go. It could putt around like any mundane Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler product but had another 150 horses under your right foot whenever you wanted it. No one person can claim responsibility for the making of the GTO- it was John DeLorean, Jim Wangers, Russ Gee, and Bill Collins all working together in secret unbeknownst to the GM brass. John DeLorean's background at Packard is where the quality of the engineering and build quality can be traced. A first generation GTO equipped with a close ratio M-21 and 3.90 gears is noise, smoke, and FURY. God bless Jim Wangers and the gang for giving us the GTO. *thumbs up*
This is really great. No greater living authority on the GTO still living. Jim really spells it out here. This is the kind and quality of info that is so welcome to classic muscle car enthusiasts. Excellent.
God , bless you Jim. And you too..john , for bringing us , this dream and making it a reality . we are few and they are many , but we fight together as one . PMD STRONG !
If anyone younger is wondering what he means by good fuel. It's the stuff they used to sell at gas stations before the Govt started politicizing fossil fuels. Another words, imagine a fuel that is so pure and potent you can store it for years without any stabilization additives, and the fuel is just as potent and efficient as the day you filled your gas tank at the station.
My 18 year old good friend, Lou, had a good paying job in 1965 & dt id buy a brand new GTO for $2,950. without a co-signer, I think! I wanted one but had to settle for a cheaper version 1964, slightly used Tempest/Le Mans! The '65 GTO was probably one of the most beautiful cars ever made!
What he decides to do with his appearance is totally his own choice and no one else. He was an excellent drag racer, winning the 1960 S/S class at the NHRA championships at Detroit Dragway then, B/FX class at the NHRA Nationals in 1963 while driving Royal Pontiac's 421 SD Catalina. This, only two of his significant wins against heavy competition.
"Yeahh Buddy", just WISH it continued! Is there a pt2 StreamingSomewhere in the eLectric eThers? 🏁☮️ My friend Fred Smith's Dad bought a '65 ROYAL BOBCAT While Fred was still in HigHSchool! He took me for a RIDE one day 🏁🚀🚀🏁
I had a 65 goat when a senior in high school 1988. the engine was set up for the 1/4 mile with a 400 angled valves, 456 gears 4 speed and would lift the front end off the ground and smoke the tires at 60+ mph. loved that car. The exhaust sound was low and loud and with the gears it would make people spin around to see what that noise was.
He jokes: "in '65 they fixed all the problems from '64... "... and it was true, they ran like stink in '65... hi-rise tri-power intake manifold... good cam...
Owned a Red 65 GTO just like the one he shows you. Floating valves were a problem, Ran 260 Sunoco, Gas was as cheap as 16.9 cents per gallon. 260 Sunoco was 24.9 at the time. Drive from Detroit to Pontiac on Woodward Ave. It was fun, would get tickets now and then. Got drafted in May 1966. did my tours in Nam. Came back in 69, My GTO was gone. I was walking. Seems my dad had traded in the GTO for a 67 Vette for my older brother. You were not old enough to own a car, but you could go in the military. Never seemed right to me. Bought a 69 Yellow Camaro and many cars after that. We drove the cars back then.
That wig is viscous. I would have went with the mullet attachments . This way he can be all business in the front and a party gettin started in the back
met jim in saratoga. very nice man.loves to talk cars. maybe if he was involved in pontiac since 1981 pontiacs would still be pontiacs. everything out of pontiac since then was a disguised chevy. so sad.
As a participant and survivor of the 1965 street car scene on Woodward Avenue in the Motor City and Gratiot Avenue in Saginaw I have witnessed every piece of performance hardware to come out of the industry against the others.I also at 17 owned a 1964 GTO 'vert that was too heavy to compete,but watching the street races were awesome and prolific.In later years when De Lorean and Wangers embarked on a personal racing venture,they had a few years of GTO's to choose from,yet they selected the "64.Why?Because this is the only one that they purposely engineered to continue Pontiac's racing dominance into the next year.Unfortunately,I think that Pontiac was Stealing Chevrolet's thunder at the track and politics led GM's management to ban factory racing.GM also gave Pontiac a lot of guff about releasing the new Tempest,which Delorean cleverly dodged.Decades later,this probably had something to do with GM keeping Buick and canning Pontiac.There will be no competition allowed to the Chevrolet market.I have personally flogged 65, 67, and 70 GTO's ,and some seemed a little faster,but they were nowhere near the stability and handling of the '64.I'm Pontiac thru and thru and would own any of these GTO's even tho they just kept getting bigger and heavier each year.Doubters should Google "Grey Ghost GTO".Awesome independent muscle car competing against the best of the SCCA pony car genre on Trans Am circuit.Also ,not mentioned,was the tri-power in '64 used the small bore 2GC Rochester center carb while the '65 and'66 used all large bore carbs.That gave them the 12HP increase.Also I'll mention that while in Bay City,Mich. there was a standing challenge to street racers at the Big Wheel drive-in from a midnight blue '64 that used to sit under the Wheel sign.That car turned 12.30's at Ubly dragway.Not sure it wasn't one of the rare 421SD's originally intended for NASCAR.
this is my dream car...'65 Pontiac GTO, red exterior, black interior, tri-power, 4 on-the-floor...but looking at everything else is nice, but I want to see that engine! hear it ROAR!!!!
I had just bought a used 65 trypower & bringing it home on I-95 when a then brand new Saab 900 Turbo wanted to play . Last ive seen of him was a speck on the S bound off ramp of 79st . Them marriage & a house came........sigh 😊
I have a question for anyone with some info. I have a print that I had framed in the mid 90's or so. Its a Jim Wangers signed Ace Wilsons Royal Pontiac with a red 1964 GTO and a blue and white 69 Royal Bobcat GTO, only 1000 prints made...I can't find any of these online. Just wondering what this might be worth?
Sorry they did have a post model. I bought a new 64 GTO Hard Top Convertible from Royal Pontiac in 64. The Post model I think was a little cheaper than my car.
@ENCOMAN Thats why a 2005 Tacoma is still worth $25,000+ where as GM's Canyon their answer to the tacoma is worth $9,000 or less i supose right? I see your point.
I had a '69 OHC (1 bbl) 2 dr. LeMans post. It was gross green, column auto, buckets, no console, no rust, perfect bumpers, PRISTINE interior. It had 69K and I couldn't give it away. Oh well.
@seanseanseanseansean John Deloren is the Godfather of the GTO... Jim Wagners is and was a good ad man and worked them out on Woodward ave on the streets...
I had a 1965 Royal Bobcat, What a car! I never sold her, I should have never got married to my wife back then, she never liked it and sold my car when I was in the US Army. I can't tell you how mad I was but it was gone. :-( what was my wife thinking? and the bad part was she went out partying with the money.
And if you were really serious about performance and had the $ you could get a 421. I knew guys who did have the $ and desire 1 had a 64 GTO with a 421 with 2 4 barrel carbs, his older brother had a 66 GTO with a 421 with 3 duces and ram air, turned out both of them were more car than they could handle, totaled them both
This kit originated at Royal Pontiac in Royal Oak Mich they offered the first kits in 1960 they consisted of re jetting the carbs a spring kit for the distributor and tripple valve springs along with a functional hood scoop (which evolved into the factory ram air).. They had a very popular race team started by Ace Wilson eventually pontiac accepted this dealer installed option and still warrentied the engine. Again this car in the piece is a clone ,GTO's didn't have a post....
Now in May 2010 when GM again show profit. We are a lot people that congratulate the company for that. Well, you American fellows: tell GM to dig in the cellar for the drawings of the GTO of the 60th-70th. Put some new stuff under the hood...and blow the other cars off the street!
wow.. wow unleaded killed this shit. really.. you try to tune a motor like that now and you'll fry valve stems. how do people who can afford to keep a beautiful car like this going wihout .. well, lead? i guess having heads rebuilt with special bushings has something to do with it, but those days musta been the days..
I raced one of these Royal bobcat. 1965. GTO's tri power 389ci In a 1/4 mile race I smoked it In My tri power 340. Plymouth Cuda AAR both were In Stock form with street tires. This guy is all talk .the car was loud and noisy but not fast
Everyone I knew, back in the day, with a 340 six pac, took off the intake, and swapped to a 4 bbl, cause they ran like sh!t. I could've bought one from a hobby shop for 20 bucks, as it held open a door. And you gave your self away, commenting on racing in street tires. The great equalizer. My buddy in his 340 71 duster 4 spd, blew away a Hemi cuda, in a street race. No traction, any bodys race. Even against a Royal Pontiac.
This jerk doesn't know what he is talking about like the lifters didn't pump up, the pumped out causing the valve not to open fully and the Tri Power linkage was NOT hydraulic but VACUUM operated which Royal replaced with a manually adjustable progressive linkage that you set when the end carbs opened.
LOL! That's your take on lifter pump up? You need some more training. And to call him a jerk, just shows your ignorance. I'll grant you the vacuum canisters tho, but if you were able to get Jim to clarify, I'm sure he has a logical explanation, that you haven't got a clue of.
Damn man! You could fly to Persia on that rug!
In the fall if 1964 I ordered a new '65 GTO. It was a Nightwatch blue coupe with a black interior, 3x2bbl, close-ratio 4 speed, 3.90 limited-slip rear end, and a heavy-duty suspension. It also had a breakerless transistor ignition and metallic brakes. I also ordered an early "cold air package" which I installed later. After driving it for a while, I took it up to Royal Pontiac and had Milt Schornack convert it to a "Royal Bobcat". Jardine headers and Traction-Masters with M & H slicks completed the package. I removed part of its grillwork to install two GE #4537 aircraft landing lights and air horns from a GI "duce and a half" (an Army 2 1/2 ton truck) so it was distinctive to say the least!. I worked at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Green Bank, WV and enjoyed driving it through the mountains. Later, I worked in Charlottesville, VA and frequently drove it (fast) between Charlottesville and Green Bank. Now and then drove it in "BB Stock" at the West Side Speedway in Waynesboro, VA. Those were fun days! I transferred my GTO to a friend when I moved to AZ in 1970. I wonder whatever happened to this car?
I was so lucky to have had a great conversation with this man back in 1999. I had no idea who I was talking to at first. But after about 45 minutes of car talking, I introduced myself then I asked his name. He said it was Jim. I immediately knew it was the Godfather of the GTO from all the books I read. What a down to earth person he is. Thanks Jim, for all you done for the sport.
Genius. I like the way he thinks. The things he discribes are the main things people do now a days to pontiac engines that are fairly stock and beyond. My grandpa "Moon Mullins" was into it. His 65 GTO ran consistant 12.8s with slicks, headers and his tune. I think it was a 421 b/c of performance and he said way back that it was a 376hp engine. It also went 13.0 pure stock on redlines. Tripower close ratio 3.90.
That rug is awesome.
Wangers is a hero to any lover of the Golden Age for Pontiac- '57-'77. They were some of the most durable and beautifully styled cars ever. The GTO in particular grabbed your eyes and would not let go. It could putt around like any mundane Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler product but had another 150 horses under your right foot whenever you wanted it. No one person can claim responsibility for the making of the GTO- it was John DeLorean, Jim Wangers, Russ Gee, and Bill Collins all working together in secret unbeknownst to the GM brass. John DeLorean's background at Packard is where the quality of the engineering and build quality can be traced. A first generation GTO equipped with a close ratio M-21 and 3.90 gears is noise, smoke, and FURY. God bless Jim Wangers and the gang for giving us the GTO. *thumbs up*
This is really great. No greater living authority on the GTO still living. Jim really spells it out here. This is the kind and quality of info that is so welcome to classic muscle car enthusiasts. Excellent.
Thank God for Jim Wangers!!!
I could listen to Jim Wangers talk about Pontiac's all day. If you haven't read his book "Glory Day's" it's a great read.
Why?
God , bless you Jim. And you too..john , for bringing us , this dream and making it a reality . we are few and they are many , but we fight together as one . PMD STRONG !
If anyone younger is wondering what he means by good fuel. It's the stuff they used to sell at gas stations before the Govt started politicizing fossil fuels. Another words, imagine a fuel that is so pure and potent you can store it for years without any stabilization additives, and the fuel is just as potent and efficient as the day you filled your gas tank at the station.
My 18 year old good friend, Lou, had a good paying job in 1965 & dt id buy
a brand new GTO for $2,950. without a co-signer, I think! I wanted one
but had to settle for a cheaper version 1964, slightly used Tempest/Le Mans!
The '65 GTO was probably one of the most beautiful cars ever made!
What he decides to do with his appearance is totally his own choice and no one else.
He was an excellent drag racer, winning the 1960 S/S class at the NHRA championships at Detroit Dragway then, B/FX class at the NHRA Nationals in 1963 while driving Royal Pontiac's 421 SD Catalina. This, only two of his significant wins against heavy competition.
I was the proud owner of a 67 GTO, rare in Canada. 360/400, quick, not enough brakes!
Thank you Jim Wangers for autographing my 1965 Acadian Beaumont sun visor.. the show piece of the car.. beyond cool👍😎
"Yeahh Buddy", just WISH it continued! Is there a pt2 StreamingSomewhere in the eLectric eThers? 🏁☮️
My friend Fred Smith's Dad bought a '65 ROYAL BOBCAT While Fred was still in HigHSchool! He took me for a RIDE one day
🏁🚀🚀🏁
I had a 65 goat when a senior in high school 1988. the engine was set up for the 1/4 mile with a 400 angled valves, 456 gears 4 speed and would lift the front end off the ground and smoke the tires at 60+ mph. loved that car. The exhaust sound was low and loud and with the gears it would make people spin around to see what that noise was.
He jokes: "in '65 they fixed all the problems from '64... "... and it was true, they ran like stink in '65... hi-rise tri-power intake manifold... good cam...
I'm sure it made a LOT of noise with those 4.56 gears
Jim wangers is one of the main guys who were instrumental in launching the muscle car era in 1964. Really nice guy too
I love this car - it´s incredibly beautiful !!!
Owned a Red 65 GTO just like the one he shows you. Floating valves were a problem, Ran 260 Sunoco, Gas was as cheap as 16.9 cents per gallon. 260 Sunoco was 24.9 at the time. Drive from Detroit to Pontiac on Woodward Ave. It was fun, would get tickets now and then. Got drafted in May 1966. did my tours in Nam. Came back in 69, My GTO was gone. I was walking. Seems my dad had traded in the GTO for a 67 Vette for my older brother. You were not old enough to own a car, but you could go in the military. Never seemed right to me. Bought a 69 Yellow Camaro and many cars after that. We drove the cars back then.
Wangers has a bobcat sitting on his head
Yes, and its royal....lol
Lol
HAR HAR HARDEE HAR HAR!!!
I agree
Lance Lambert doing his interview magic…
That wig is viscous. I would have went with the mullet attachments . This way he can be all business in the front and a party gettin started in the back
Nice Hair Hat !!!
kenevil it was his trademark!
Fuckn bald
met jim in saratoga. very nice man.loves to talk cars. maybe if he was involved in pontiac since 1981 pontiacs would still be pontiacs. everything out of pontiac since then was a disguised chevy. so sad.
As a participant and survivor of the 1965 street car scene on Woodward Avenue in the Motor City and Gratiot Avenue in Saginaw I have witnessed every piece of performance hardware to come out of the industry against the others.I also at 17 owned a 1964 GTO 'vert that was too heavy to compete,but watching the street races were awesome and prolific.In later years when De Lorean and Wangers embarked on a personal racing venture,they had a few years of GTO's to choose from,yet they selected the "64.Why?Because this is the only one that they purposely engineered to continue Pontiac's racing dominance into the next year.Unfortunately,I think that Pontiac was Stealing Chevrolet's thunder at the track and politics led GM's management to ban factory racing.GM also gave Pontiac a lot of guff about releasing the new Tempest,which Delorean cleverly dodged.Decades later,this probably had something to do with GM keeping Buick and canning Pontiac.There will be no competition allowed to the Chevrolet market.I have personally flogged 65, 67, and 70 GTO's ,and some seemed a little faster,but they were nowhere near the stability and handling of the '64.I'm Pontiac thru and thru and would own any of these GTO's even tho they just kept getting bigger and heavier each year.Doubters should Google "Grey Ghost GTO".Awesome independent muscle car competing against the best of the SCCA pony car genre on Trans Am circuit.Also ,not mentioned,was the tri-power in '64 used the small bore 2GC Rochester center carb while the '65 and'66 used all large bore carbs.That gave them the 12HP increase.Also I'll mention that while in Bay City,Mich. there was a standing challenge to street racers at the Big Wheel drive-in from a midnight blue '64 that used to sit under the Wheel sign.That car turned 12.30's at Ubly dragway.Not sure it wasn't one of the rare 421SD's originally intended for NASCAR.
He’s got the piece in honor of the Bobcat !
Awesome toop!
this is my dream car...'65 Pontiac GTO, red exterior, black interior, tri-power, 4 on-the-floor...but looking at everything else is nice, but I want to see that engine! hear it ROAR!!!!
I had just bought a used 65 trypower & bringing it home on I-95 when a then brand new Saab 900 Turbo wanted to play . Last ive seen of him was a speck on the S bound off ramp of 79st . Them marriage & a house came........sigh 😊
Hey Jim, @ 5:22 your suits 4 buttons sleeve just scratched the paint on the hood!
Amazing
Don’t have the money Wangers does , but I own a 65 GTO .
The song sold the car, Brilliant way around the advertising ban
I have a question for anyone with some info. I have a print that I had framed in the mid 90's or so. Its a Jim Wangers signed Ace Wilsons Royal Pontiac with a red 1964 GTO and a blue and white 69 Royal Bobcat GTO, only 1000 prints made...I can't find any of these online. Just wondering what this might be worth?
Sorry they did have a post model. I bought a new 64 GTO Hard Top Convertible from Royal Pontiac in 64. The Post model I think was a little cheaper than my car.
i love this guy,
Nice hair piece
@ENCOMAN Thats why a 2005 Tacoma is still worth $25,000+ where as GM's Canyon their answer to the tacoma is worth $9,000 or less i supose right? I see your point.
My favorite year Goat, on a budget buy a 65' Lamons, good deal!👽
Gorgeous car!! I want to tell him to get his hand off the car. No touching dude!
I had a '69 OHC (1 bbl) 2 dr. LeMans post. It was gross green, column auto, buckets, no console, no rust, perfect bumpers, PRISTINE interior. It had 69K and I couldn't give it away. Oh well.
Wheres part 2?
full episode to be posted soon
I love Jim Wangers. met him several times and have a few pics with him. The wig was so bad, couldn't anyone close to him say something?
You think ? No one could ever tell !
@seanseanseanseansean John Deloren is the Godfather of the GTO... Jim Wagners is and was a good ad man and worked them out on Woodward ave on the streets...
I just love the GTO. All of them, except the new one GM tried to sell. GM made a big mistake getting out of the muscle car bis. Dumb move.
Jim Wenger awesome.
I had a 1965 Royal Bobcat, What a car! I never sold her, I should have never got married to my wife back then, she never liked it and sold my car when I was in the US Army. I can't tell you how mad I was but it was gone. :-( what was my wife thinking? and the bad part was she went out partying with the money.
Sounds like a typical military wife lol
Jim is a musclecar legend
And if you were really serious about performance and had the $ you could get a 421. I knew guys who did have the $ and desire 1 had a 64 GTO with a 421 with 2 4 barrel carbs, his older brother had a 66 GTO with a 421 with 3 duces and ram air, turned out both of them were more car than they could handle, totaled them both
cool , Bobby Hull wig, love it
Ditch the wig, Jim
This kit originated at Royal Pontiac in Royal Oak Mich they offered the first kits in 1960 they consisted of re jetting the carbs a spring kit for the distributor and tripple valve springs along with a functional hood scoop (which evolved into the factory ram air).. They had a very popular race team started by Ace Wilson eventually pontiac accepted this dealer installed option and still warrentied the engine. Again this car in the piece is a clone ,GTO's didn't have a post....
Jim Wangers and His Rug.. I suppose He puts that on His Head and thinks He's 20 years younger...
nice car ... but that rug does NOT tie the room together
Never buy your wig at Walmart!
Now in May 2010 when GM again show profit. We are a lot people that congratulate the company for that. Well, you American fellows: tell GM to dig in the cellar for the drawings of the GTO of the 60th-70th. Put some new stuff under the hood...and blow the other cars off the street!
its not a wig its a carson top
wow.. wow
unleaded killed this shit.
really.. you try to tune a motor like that now and you'll fry valve stems. how do people who can afford to keep a beautiful car like this going wihout .. well, lead? i guess having heads rebuilt with special bushings has something to do with it, but those days musta been the days..
ROFLMAO!!
The rug IS terrible but the comb-over, in a different way, is just as bad.
LOL IF MY MOTHER Were Still alive She would backhand me for laughing , But come on buddy get real ...... LOL . I'm Sorry MOM ... Love the car !
damn...i was born in the wrong era =(....
shit
muscle cars now are little bitches compared to the old ones.
dam that wig rug he is wearing look`s like a ? had to leave after 1 minute.
I raced one of these Royal bobcat. 1965. GTO's tri power 389ci In a 1/4 mile race I smoked it In My tri power 340. Plymouth Cuda AAR both were In Stock form with street tires. This guy is all talk .the car was loud and noisy but not fast
Everyone I knew, back in the day, with a 340 six pac, took off the intake, and swapped to a 4 bbl, cause they ran like sh!t. I could've bought one from a hobby shop for 20 bucks, as it held open a door. And you gave your self away, commenting on racing in street tires. The great equalizer. My buddy in his 340 71 duster 4 spd, blew away a Hemi cuda, in a street race. No traction, any bodys race. Even against a Royal Pontiac.
This jerk doesn't know what he is talking about like the lifters didn't pump up, the pumped out causing the valve not to open fully and the Tri Power linkage was NOT hydraulic but VACUUM operated which Royal replaced with a manually adjustable progressive linkage that you set when the end carbs opened.
Get over it, car people knew what he meant. Jim probably forgot more shit about cars that either one of us will ever know
LOL! That's your take on lifter pump up? You need some more training. And to call him a jerk, just shows your ignorance. I'll grant you the vacuum canisters tho, but if you were able to get Jim to clarify, I'm sure he has a logical explanation, that you haven't got a clue of.