Ignition Diagnostics at SMA! (Ford & Honda)
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics takes a road trip to NY for a CarQuest seminar on ignition waveforms. Of course a visit to SMA is also on the way!
Eric O. and I try to apply some of our fresh knowledge to diagnose a misfire on an old Ford truck...
Then I do a quick mobile diagnostic call for SMA on a crank-no start '91 Honda Accord....
Fun times! Enjoy!
When working for Eric, you're supposed to do something with Brakekleen!
Thanks for the demonstration, I learned a lot from this, and it didn't cost me a dime, well maybe just a little, anyway I appreciate what you do because I didn't have to get out in this cold weather, just sat in the comfort of room with a hot cup of coffee, thanks again, from a would-be back yard mechanic.😊
the dynamic duo strikes again!!!!!!!
Looks like I missed this one a few years ago. Fun to see secondary ignition patterns, too bad they aren't very easy to find any more. Outstanding second example of a shorted secondary of the ignition coil. Good point, the igniter limits current to save itself, I didn't know that.
great video ! Here's a tip for the ignition voltage waveform either secondary or primary . Activate peak detect mode for the individual channel and the scope registers all of the peaks in the waveform. Makes the image a lot crisper to view.
There are still plenty of the pre OBII F150 - F350s down here in the Virginia Beach, Norfolk Virginia area since there used to be a Ford Plant in our area.
That firing order you have is backwards because the distributor on that engine spins counter clockwise. Great channel by the way, I love the puzzles that you encounter.
Great video Ivan and Eric o. Thanks for sharing
l'm old school, love this old truck. Bring back so many memories.
Alot of wisdom and knowledge from this video.
Who would have thought a 1990's ford could survive the rust for so many years.
Those terms that u were using in reference to secondary wave forms like parade, raster brought back memories from the Heathkit scope I built way back when. I chucked it out perhaps 20 years ago. But now, thanks to u, Scanner Danner and SMA, I wish I would have kept it. I am sure there would have been a way to set it up to observe square waves and many other electrical events going on on the modern system. Oh well. Now I have to start back with one of those little guys AES Wave makes. Wish there was a way to make your iPad a scope. Economically
+Bill Rimmer Can a tablet run Pico software? That would be a slick setup! A Paddle Probe from AESwave picks up secondary KV quite well on modern COP systems, as long as you can reach the coils. Otherwise primary current from a main feed is the way to go :)
Although I have a PICO, I still use my heath kit on old cars.
Great video Ivan. Nice of you to help Eric out.
Ivan, you and Eric make a good team. Keep your connection and keep on turning out the good and interesting videos. A place I've found with good free videos are at TSTseminars on CZcams. I particularly like Bill Fulton, Jerry Truglia and Doc Nail for whatever it's worth; but you know this already.
+Garlin Willingham They may know, but I didn't know of this one. Thanks.
Thanks Garlin I'll check it out 👍👍
Nice! good gas mileage on them trucks lol
Had one where coil had bad ground intermittent. Guys threw ton of parts only to find corroded ground on coil block or fender on some Fords.
Your last comments were very relevant as there must have been a reason why the coil went in the first place.Old spark plugs along with leaky Ht leads and bad rotor cap can put enough pressure on the coil to cause a re occurrence of the fault.Intermittent problems are the most difficult of all the faults to diagnose.Nice scope work.
the tfi on the fender was a modification/recall / lawsuit remedy.when they were mounted on the distributor the'd burn up regularly from heat. still have my special socket ya needed for the mount screws. i suspect the pickup coil may be on its way south. that's how they always started to fail. slight miss under load
Nice fix on the Honda! The guys over at TSTseminars have some great wave form vids as well. They recommend triggering on the start of the dwell. falling edge around 6 volts. The wave form doesn't jump around near as much as trying to catch the firing line. Thanks for all your vids!
+1quickchevy2 Thanks man! I would say the best trigger point would be on the falling edge of the primary current ramp (or corresponding kV firing line) to keep the spark line steady on the screen. A picture is worth a thousand words!
man, i miss these 90s truck
If the timing mark flutters, replace the module.
the dream machine out front ( snap on truck)
I have a 1986 f150 V8. I had to remove the fuel transfer pump and unstick the diaphragm. I believe it is the alcohol in the fuel that dries out the valve and causes them to stick. I add a can of Seafoam to help lube the valves.
I had a diesel version of that truck the would die after making a left turn over 10 miles an hour. Turned out to be water in the control module which got through the air valve on the back and would cause a short when turning left.
Cool the "A" team
Expecting live data with an EEC-4 system? You'll need a 'break out box' and a lot of timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
The order should be on the intake.
Leave it to the Pros..Blessings Ivan.
EEC-IV has memory codes. It has KOEO and KOER codes. It has timing advance test. It don't have live test. If you get oxygen sensor rich or lean codes, replace the MAP sensor. If you get improper vacuum to the EGR at idle, replace the charcoal canister purge valve.
Great vid..at least I found out im not the only one pullin my PIP.
I didn't know that there is 2 number two cylinders ha ha😊 you put number 2 twice the second one instead of 5 😆
Car quest in this part of texas was bought out by Advanced Auto, then the prices at Advanced Auto almost doubled. Some of the older Ford's were hard to diagnose and used a lot of gas 5-10 mpg.
Nice work Ivan and hopefully you and Ivan can catch that intermittent. Is that book available without taking the course in person? Thanks!
Two diagnostic king working together, osom! Missing SD
DUDE, Ford 385 series engine was the same as the 80’s 302 small block ford. 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 ! ! ! I actually own two 302 cars, two 302 trucks and a 85 f-250 4x4 with a 460 BBF with 4BBL. The fuel injected 460’s were OBD with no live data, functional tests or any bi-directional capabilities for any scan tools. Great pulling/hauling engines but they drinked gas like alcoholic on binge for days. Best I’ve heard in the city was 6-10 mpg and 10-18 mpg on the highway. Great power with the torque to do just about anything except go fast at the strip.
John is great guy and instructor
I'd like some info on that course you guys took please. Great video.
Could be the torque converter clutch coming on at that low of speed causing that complaint and feel. Even low ATF level on the E4OD can cause the tcc to apply when it should not be applied.
The firing order on the Ford is 15426378 and was in the list on the Verus. Symptoms sound like the throttle body is real dirty and base idle may be out of adjustment. Looks like the Honda could use a new ignition system as the firing lines were very high. No wonder the coil took a dump. Just my two cents worth.
+wysetech2000 Wow you know your Fords! Turns out I had the distributor rotation wrong...on this truck it is indeed COUNTER clockwise!! My mistake. Also on that Accord I should have done a visual inspection on a spark plug for sure...
Here's a question from our seminar for you:
True or False: high resistance in a spark plug wire causes a higher kV reading on the firing line.
+motoYam82 False.
+motoYam82 Years ago I was a drivability tech and performed several tune ups a day. I didn't have time to replace one plug wire at a time so I taught myself most of the popular firing orders and rotations to speed things up. Ford had a couple of different ones but the one I posted was for that engine.
Put me in mind of bad cap and wires.
CZcamss' two most talented and respected technicians, could it get any better? thanks for content!
Yeah, it seems that little Honda could use some TLC to get it more dependable. Interesting how auto owners will do nothing until things fail. I'm afraid to ask how many miles this one has on it.
I have a 91 Honda that I've replaced ignition module and the coil in it'll fire right up and run for about 25 miles and it kills ignition module that's inside the distributor with the coil I've replaced them several times I can't figure out why it's knocking out the module
that sucks, I got a 89 ford F250 with a 460 efi that bucks and stumbles when I take off from a stop. changed coil, cap and rotor, with new plugs and wires but still does it. I deleted the egr from the exhaust to the intake im not sure if maybe that might be it but then again it never made a difference when I deleted It, it just started acting up later on. any thoughts?
+twoeagle86 Eric was saying the TPS sensors go bad on these trucks too. Look at the signal on a graphing meter...that might have been the issue with the truck in the video as well!
You most likely got this problem fixed but you need to look at the Crank sensor that is also called the pick up "assembly unplug spell connector and see what the wait for Mark's like then plug it back in I have done three of them already in the computer is junk
Good test on that Honda , you have to ensure the coil is good or bad , before you go chasing a Crank or Cam Sensor
Good video, love that pickup, I'm looking for an older big block pickup for towing.
by experience i would say, replace the distributor assembly. but to each it's own.
thumbs up
Well done, 👍👍
Could be IAC issue on the ford?
Ivan do you have the PDF version of this book?
нет ничего лучше картинки 'до и после'. Спасибо.
nice job..that waveform thing is way beyond me. spark ,fuel and compression i like the basics.
do you find increased resistance in old spark plug leads?
Firing Order ? COUNTERclockwise ? 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 ?
+Dave Caselli Yup good catch :)
Ivan, the firing order is backwards! (but you know that already :))
Good job :)
nice work I suggest you do a scope video
What is the firing order you are using, and are you sure??
at $3.95 per plug and a whopping .22 for a #8 flatwasher you are making a killing. 5,000 repairs on that truck and you can pay off your snap-on scan tool.
LOL I paid cold hard cash for my Verus so no payments to the Snap-On guy! ;)
Being slightly sarcastic of Eric's invoice. You can do plumbing or carpentry with a few hundred dollars of tools. Mechanics have to spend thousands to be able to do their profession appropriately.
@@robertopenheimer1451 You could do the same with mechanical work - just not as effectively.
Lol Don't be upset about it with an old Ford with tfi ignition ull chase ur tail in circles. I had a 95 f150 5.0 tfi ignition and only when cruising above 35 mph and only when wet (if u had to hit a puddle u knew u were going to be having a fun time for a few miles). Engine temp irrelevant as it wasn't able to go into closed loop as I unhooked o2 sensor to get rid of it running so bad during the problem that it was undriveable at all. I finally got to the point that I had everything but coolant temp iat and tps unhooked. Problem still occurred but not near as bad(I had roughly 600 hp so wasn't stock but being the bastard 95 there wasn't any chip or anything available that I could put in to reprogram computer so all injector tuned on stock ecm). When it would act up u would be cruising at steady speed and suddenly it missing so badly that its literally starting to stall and loose speed instantly. Itd buck and chug and pop every witch way but right and if you let off gas it would completely stall and restart was extremely hard had to know how to hit the sweet spot on the pedal to get it to fire or the best option to do was to just smash it to wot and ud get pop pop and grab ur hats cause were going to the moon sideways moment and be fine till you settled down and tried to hold steady speed. did this with 3 different engines even after all electronics were replaced including wiring harness and computer. 2 engines were bone stock and 1 was out of a buddies truck that he totaled and ran perfect. I had the problem go away for most of a year after I replaced all the electronics and harness. Then it came back. After 4.5 hard years 120k miles and 5 winters as my main plow truck with a 9.5ft blade the rust was winning the battle and it was no longer going to be a plow truck and was retired and sold. The guy who bought it as well as the guy he sold it to for a mud truck could not solve the issue either. As long as I put plugs wires cap and rotor on about every 8 months it minimized the problem but not eliminated it. I've ran into many who had the same problem and never had any resolution. Its a ford thing. I gave up on solving and just worked till it was dtiveable
If you got the firing order by tracing the cables to the cylinders but the order you wrote down wasn't listed in the scope... could Eric O have misplaced one of the cables and could that cause the problem?
If you listened, the owner said the problem was when cold out, then idle revs picked up and it felt like it would stall, but then no issue. This happened once every equinox after a bank holiday with the moon at it's zenith on a Tuesday after eating oatmeal for breakfast...(I.E., so rarely it probably wasn't worth bringing in at that point)
I think if Eric "misplaced" an ignition wire, he would have picked it up at the time.
Ivan couldn't even get the firing order right, so I know whose mechanical skills I would go with.
Cheepchipsable what
Didya swipe his tripod while you were there?
I wonder if plug wires were mixed up in firing order since they didn't match snapons list.
Bart Young To run the wires w/o a book, turn #1 to TDC on compression stroke on 0 turning in normal direction. Wherever the rotor is pointing, that's #1. Run the wires according to rotation of the rotor, firing order, and cylinder arrangement.
Wear can I get this book let me know thanks
That's not a Honda! That's a Singer sewing machine!? 💣
Ck. and see if the throttle plates and throttle body are dirty on the Ford.
where can i get a copy of that book?
should of just ordered a eBay distributor for that Honda. way cheaper then part store coil. I got a dizzy for my eg civic online eBay for like 50$
Didn't know Honda made a diesel
Turn off those white grids on the Verus! I found them too distracting on mine.
What about worn timing chain ..
clean the throttle on that ford? could be a simple fix.
i was drafted into usarmy when i was your age. wtf portagesse militiary
I have taken courses with him
+GREG Feeney John G. was a great lecturer! The take-away message was that "everything you think you know...is wrong" haha :) Basically there are no hard truths in diagnostics; there are always exceptions to the rule!
I agree. He knows scannerdanner as well. John is a wise man
check injectors and o2s.
More like batman and superman
Still don't understand why Eric O and Ivan do not work together all the time. Eric does not like diagnostics, although he is good at it. And Ivan specialises in diagnostics and is less good wrenching.
Because Ivan and Eric live about 3 hours apart...
IAC
Good video, love that pickup, I'm looking for an older big block pickup for towing.