Europe - Common Market - Dennis Skinner and Enoch Powell - 1978 - part 2
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 05. 2017
- PART 2 OF A DEBATE FROM THE LOCKET RESTAURANT HE FUTURE OF THE GOVERNMENT HOSTED BY LLEW GARDNER WITH GUESTS RT HON BOB MELLISH MP, NORMAN ST JOHN STEVAS MP, JOHN PARDOE MP, DENNIS SKINNER MP, RT HON ENOCH POWELL MP , MARGARET BAIN MP AND RT HON REGINALD MAULDING MP - IN THIS DEBATE THE PANEL DISCUSS EUROPE AND THE COMMON MARKET
First shown: 20/11/1978
If you would like to license a clip from this video please e mail:
archive@fremantlemedia.com
Quote: VT20515
This depresses me. I simply can’t believe after watching this how far this country has fallen.
here here
Same here.
Yes, the standard of MPs has sunk so low today.
Did you watch the video? Jonh Stevas said that the British reputation on the continent of Europe was "rock bottom." So, no, the country has not fallen, it's still where it was in 1978.
And someone else was bemoaning the inefficient British worker compared to those in Belgium. How do people like yourself get anything positive about the state of affairs in 1978 compared to today is beyond me.
"lousy club"- well said Dennis
Politicians spoke with so much more sincerity and natural charisma back then.
And intelligence.
It wasn't all scripted.
Not much diversity
@@JesterEric of all the following attributes our government could hold: Sincerity, Charisma, intelligence and diversity. The later is by far the least important.
Skinner has never changed! He is a man of conviction and the beast
Enoch was indeed prophetic.
Enoch Powell was well ahead of his time
YES HE WAS Wish people back then would of listened to him
Enoch Powell brilliant man spoke 14 languages youngest professor in commonwealth,Could of got Nobel prize for economics that Friedman got as Enoch postulated the facts before Milton!Voted most impressive Mp by fellow MPs Achieved double starred first from Cambridge an extremely rare degree,Warned about Eu undemocratic nonsense and dangers of uncontrolled mass immigration and so right on both!,Man of principle he even voted against a pay rise for MPs even though an MP
The Common Market - this was the forerunner to the EU. We were told that it was simply a free trade deal between the member states, nothing to do with a supra national state with designs about expanding Europe into an empire. Forget all that talk about the red bus with it's £350 million. The biggest lie of all was told to the British people in 1972 about the Common Market, had we been told the truth back then, the British people would have NEVER agreed to joining in the first place !
and yet they did.
But we weren't asked and there was no referendum to go in. Only later with Wilson did we get a referendum and the government campaigned to stay in as did the press and all parties at Westminster. And yes, it was all funded by Brussels.
@@joegill3612 yeah the last part you said there is like the same with what happened in the 2016 campaign but instead funding came from someone else.... oh well at least it wasnt illegal!!!!.... wait
@@harvey9290 Its been judged in court NOT TO BE illegal.
@@JfK--OBJECTivE Im talking about the vote leave campaign here. They were fined. It was illegal.
I love the essence of Enoch Powell. He's like a charismatic magician. No doubt some people of lesser intellect or lesser feeling would stereotype his intensity for overbearing, old-fashioned, rage (as if raging about things that are harmful to some is negative anyway). A benevolent Nietzschian in a way.
Paul Wilde Enoch Powell brilliant man ;Never beaten in debate :Totally correct that EU undemocratic nonsense that politicians earning a kings ransom from the EU gravy train at the expense of democracy!,What’s the point of having parliament when can be overruled by outside body ,,,!How much money have they taken from us and given us a small amount back relatively to us!,Eu even a pathetic rule that their own politicians can’t be prosecuted for wrong doing!,,,,!
No matter which one you like or loath, these shows are really missed.
What is interesting about this program is this: That Dennis Skinner and Enoch Powell are the only two who understand the European Project for what it would become. The elites wanted to have the issue dragged under the public consciousness, and thanks to these two men it wasn't.
Further, the Scots Nats had a vaguely Eurosceptic position... which goes to show that everyone can change!
39 years later Skinner was spot on everything he said has come true.
Absolutely. The EU is so against everything Labour stands for that it's unbelievable the party has forced Corbyn into backing it against many years of better judgement. Zero hours contracts for East Europeans undercutting British workers (did you hear Mr Skinner at the Conference?), so much for only the EU protecting workers' rights. By the way, I'm a conservative.
Jeremy Corbyn consistently opposed closer integration with Europe
Of course they did. They only had to UNDERSTAND what Monnett wrote in 1952 to know what was comming.
At least Dennis Skinner lived to see us out of the EU...
It is very interesting to see how far the Scottish point of view has changed in the 40 years since this debate. The majority of Scots were dead against the EU and now the SNP are clinging on to the EU like a comfort blanket, even now when the EU has stolen all our fishing and will do the same with all our oil and other natural resources!
I do wonder, considering Scotland has a net deficit considering taxes in the UK why we don't just let them leave and save all the taxpayers a fair few bob
For that matter cut Northern Ireland off and Wales too. England on its own would be a fucking powerhouse
@@tehs3raph1m As a welshman i can agree with this why not separate the union into separate countries that are independent devoluted countries are never heard correctly so why cant everyone just govern theyre own part fully
tehs3raph1m going by your logic almost everything outside the city of London would be subsidised, with many areas north of the Watford gap having barely wiped their own arses since the tories deindustrialised them in the 70’s and 80’s. However England is not the United Kingdom and English nationalism is not British patriotism, and the same can be said of Scottish, Welsh and Irish nationalism / republicanism.
@@gunmoney4495 Keep the union, it was the combined talents of the British peoples that helped form the Empire into as powerful an entity as it was. Imagine would could be achieved in the future after some of the union's issues have been satisfactorily resolved.
Good gracious three years in from going into the common market and they were talking about not leaving but reforming!!
40 years later and they continue to say we can reform the EU from within!
Wake up 17.4 million people the majority who voted overwhelmingly to leave the European Union an aggressive federalist economic and political institution want out now.
The biggest crime was to wait 41 years until the people had a say.
I was 14 in 1975, to young to vote but I said no to the common market.
I was also 14! My Lefty family had a sign with 'No to the Common Market' up in our front room window. Corbyn was an acolyte of Tony Benn who spent DECADES speaking up against the failed, neo-liberal experiment that is the EU. I am disgusted by the turncoats of the left. Corbyn et al were against the EU which is basically Thatcherism x 100. This is what I find so incredible! Those on the Left like Skinner, who voted to leave the EU, have been marginalised. The idea that everyone who voted to exit is a racist, is lazy at best. Now, we have the warmonger and mutant Tony Blair getting involved with the campaign for a 'peoples' vote'. Corbyn was an arch enemy of Blair. I know we should accept strange bedfellows in politics, but this is taking it too far. Benn must be spinning in his grave.
arewerushinglikethewind
I remember all the posters saying no the common market on my way to school.
Many older people were suspicious of the common market back then.
I had some interesting debates with the older generation and it's at this time my interest in politics piqued.
😂
At least skinner and
Powell told the truth
Interesting retort for those that come out with ....but we need a second referendum because the kids that couldnt vote in 2016....if they are that bothered by brexit they can work to change minds for 30 or 40 years and let's come back to it.....in the meantime let's do what the people wanted
@@michaelx9079 Every year there is a knew group of recently eligible voters to add to the pot. By the logic of the British government a referendum could be called every year until they get their desired outcome.
07:40 Probably the only subject that Dennis Skinner and Enoch Powell agreed on!
Both were against the death penalty
harmlessdrudge, fast forward to now and the same can be said of Nigel Farage and George Galloway.
BUt by far the most important.
Fascinating - I missed all this while I was being indoctrinated at university and the telly. Interesting the amount of talk about govt as opposed to country. Enoch ahead of his time. Also note how things have flipped since fact was replaced by doctrine in tv debates
If indeed you were 'indoctrinated' at university that was wholly your fault.
Are you or have you ever been a puddle?
I remember this programme people talked about it for weeks. Oh happy days. By the way I voted NO to entering the the so called Common Market. We were never told it was a Community.
It’s not
Skinner and Powell were right. Fair play to Skinner I dont agree with his politics but after all the years he remained true and voted leave. Powell was a very very clever guy.
gmonkey808 If Frank Skinner had had his way we would still be trying to prop up British Leyland and firing our Power Stations with Coal. He and Corbyn are relics of an economic era that has long past that was marked by continual strikes, high inflation and going cap in hand to the IMF.
@@robertcheatle2685 Nevertheless his programmes with Baddiel were mildly amusing.
Unfortunately Skinner has become a remainder judging by his recent votes
@@robertcheatle2685 possibly better to prop up failing manufacturers rather than failing banks, as demonstrated by the old fashioned and failing beliefs of Thatcher, Blair and Cameron
@@robertely686 That is one point of view. But collapsed banks bring down many more companies that failing industries, even when you consider the local multiplier effect. What I have resented is that when the banks were back on their feet the Government sold off their shares at a discount, meaning the tax payer had subsidized these interventions.
The most interesting thing about this of course is how Labour's attitude to the EU has changed.
the Labour Party attitude to the working class has also changed ,they have come to despise the working class ,but the people took revenge on both tge Tory and Labour elites with brexit
@@johnlittle2406 Which was a hopeless punt. Really the working class has no representation now because the Great & Good are globalist lickspittles who believe the nation state has had its day, while the working class (what's left of it) remains fundamentally patriotic, and wants Britain to remain natively British.
Ironically it was Thatchers opposition to joining the EU that caused her Tory MPs to stab her in the back and oust her... It seems she was right, she said there would come a time where the EU would only survive if Europe became a federal Europe with one currency, and all laws coming from Brussels, and she was NOT going to sign Britain up for that. It seems to me that her predictions were right.
Thatcher voted to join the eu, enoch and tony benn were against.
That is utter and total bullshit. Listen to Peter shore. Micheal Foote. They and the trade unions were vocal in the fact that it would lead onto a federal Europe.
She voted to join the common market in 1975, it became something else later and so she became more opposed to Europe as an entity.
Thatcher was an ardent campaigner for joining the EEC.
mrs thatcher supported eu membership in the 1975 referendum .only later did she realise her mistake .her u turn came too late to save her .
Dennis Skinner and Enoch Powell from opposite sides of the Political spectrum but both spot on about what became The EU.
Why were we in it !! Who got the benefits? Skinner should have been more influential in the Labour Party !! Good on him for maintaining his views and has supported Brexit against the whips
And his constituents end up voting him out.
6:14 "How long would it take you?" You've got to love Dennis Skinner
“That’s a stupid remark”
“It isn’t.”
These days, this would be a phone-in hosted by Ant & Dec with guest-spots from Mr. Blobby
`You're too generous!
Skinner and Powell are the only ones worth listening to. The others are completely useless.
09:45 "The Conservative Party is the European Party". Back then in the 70s most Eurosceptics were in Labour.
This was mentioned in Denis Healey's autobiography. Because most Labour MPs thought at the time the common market was some capitalist sabotage project or something like that.
Which over the years it has sort of become that. When the Tories do something and say all this and that and it sounds great on paper which is what they did when they put us in (bare in mind I was born in 1994 I think 22 years after we were put in). I have nothing against the EU workers but I do think that people who are unelected whether that is in Brussels or the House of Lords or even the House of Commons with Theresa May should not be able to call the shots.
Yeah I’ve learned that myself too recently back then it was very few right wingers who wanted to come out of Europe and today the left and the right are both controlled by Israel and therefore don’t want to come out cos they do what there told
Maastricht Treaty caused tory Euroscepticism.
@@josephking1947 "All sane humans". "Hypocrites" was the word you were looking for. Decrying antisemitism in the Labour Party and then voting for another rife with Islamophobia and with an overtly racist leader, is a laughable double-standard.
I’m a Tory, but I have tremendous respect for the great man Dennis Skinner. He should have been more vocal over the past three years.
Dennis Skinners comments from 6:02 during Maudling’s patronising waffle are hilarious.
"It if takes 2 days to make a Ford car in the UK but only 1 day to make a Ford car in Belgium..."
"how long would it take you?"
It was a crass comment. Good theatre, but silly.
For all the years skinner was in politics he did bugger all.
Great footage. Enoch is still king and correct till the end of time.
Enoch would have been very happy now the people have spoken and finally got out of the EU and he knew where that lot were heading even then when it was the EEC.......good post .
One of the men identified himself as a socialist, and his socialism was his reason for being part of the European Community, and for down-playing the nation state. The Tory shadow gov. man was even more zealous about the UK being part of the European political project--beyond being part of the market. He fervently believed the UK was not able to stand on its own. This joining of socialist with Tories is like the fusion of global capitalists with global progressives today. Both are visions of power and control.
This just shows how everything changes, but it all stays the same.
"The Conservative Party is the European Party" says St.John Stevas proudly. Enough said.
Amazing isn't it, in fact, it could be argued that it continued to be the "Party is the European Party" right up until 2019.
@@ReekieReels It still is
Bullshit. Jo Grimond was calling common market entry back in the early 1960s.
Well this is a breath of fresh air....from 40 years ago.
I never thought I would agree with Dennis Skinner on anything but he was dead right about the EEC [EU]
The EU was always going to be a juggernaut.
Taking all major manufacturing away from UK and giving it to mainland Europe.
How much notice did the EU take of British voices and needs in negotiations for 45 years?
Rubbish. Once, 1 in 7 pieces of clothing was M&S and made in England. Thank China for taking over manufacturing.
I'd love to go back in time and walk in the room with them and tell them how it all turned out...how the common market made us worse off
I think Dennis Skinner should be Primeminster, after 45 years in the EU we are still no better off in fact we are worse off.
Politicians actually argued coherently in the past!
The contrast is staggering.
Back when elected politicians could express their views without constant interruption and belittlement from journalists with inflated ego.
With hindsight the European community should have only been a Trading Bloc without tariffs but with their own BRDERS INTACT!!
Look AT IT TODAY!!!!
How I wish for a real statesman like Enoch to be around today.
This video should be shown to all those the thought joining the EEC, was the right thing to do, and leaving the EU, was the wrong thing to do. Especially someone like James O'Brien.
To get the best direction as to the course the country should take we should always listen to the "Mavericks" in politics. In this case D skinner & E Powell.
Enjoyed this..thank you for posting.
They worked very hard to get in to the EU, But thank god we worked a bloody sight harder to get out of the EU, and have succeeded, Cheers, Tippo. UK.
it’s not particularly colourful now, is it?
Please explain why ?
@@nopeoppeln thanks to you remoaner traitors
Conned then..Conned in 2018
As I've said for years forget Farage, UKIP and the rest. Skinner and Benn and yes Corbyn are the original Eurosceptics
T Rex Corbyn I am really disappointed with. He sold his soul when backing remain & a man who can sell himself out and his Country is not a leader. He could have changed the youngsters view by telling the truth on the EU, instead he took the radicals under his wing
I know he could of stuck to his Eurosceptic principles but last year around the time of the referendum, Labour had I think 201 MPs. 190 (that is excluding Jeremy Corbyn) all campaigned to Remain. Over the years the number of Labour Eurosceptics has decreased. In 1992 when the Maastricht Treaty was ratified there was I think 66 including Jeremy Corbyn. Last year there was only 10. So Jeremy Corbyn simply sided with the majority.
Corbyn - He supported Chavez - Not to be trusted
T Rex Enoch Powell was more eurosceptic than all of them put together and saw what would happen years before
Dennis Skinner was a brilliant speaker and a friend of working class people who represented their beliefs and wishes,
Interesting. Same arguments, we should never have joined. I regret voting for it but I was very young. My first vote.
It's self-evident from this clip that the UK should never have been allowed in.
The greatest speaker there was silenced again... Is there a pattern. Rip Enoch
Silenced? He had the last word. As he should.
Politics is now about choosing between BIG GOVERNMENT ( Fascism and Communism/ Socialism) and SMALL GOVERNMENT ( traditional Tory/ Original Conservative) not Neo-Conservative. Mrs May and cabinet seem to be the former!
We need more government control, specifically over the financial sector. There has been one period in the entire history of Capitalism in which banking crisis and subsequent economic busts were not periodically occurring. 1945-71 under the Bretton Wood monetary plan. The world needs a new BW, and vapid libertarianism won't deliver it to us.
JOHN PARDOE is brilliant at 10:55, Enoch and Skinner too
We should never have joined the Common Market/EU.
Once saw Dennis Skinner in my hometown doing a tour with Tony Robinson (Baldrick!). Skinner was wearing a cheap old suit with a pair of scruffy trainers. He didn't give a fook. What a lad!
It's interesting that at this time politicians on the far right and far left of the political spectrum and even a Scottish nationalist were all sceptical about the European project.
How interesting to see Dennis Skinner, the Left Wing "Beast of Bolsover", nodding in agreement with right winger Enoch Powell.
Powell , understated genius . A professor in his 20's , speaking several languages and an Army Brigadier in his 30's! He was sabotaged when he made sense in what he said in politics. Skinner 49 years in politics, a socialist, which i do not follow but he spoke on behalf of the common man.......but not anymore as the common man finished his tenure to represent him but watch him agreeing and nodding to what Enoch is saying. Stevas is just a Queen and Melilish went SDP , say no more!
Norman St John Stevas is almost comically pompous!
Paul Adams wouldn’t leave children to close to him. If here today he would be locked up
John Cole, no mug, regarded Maudling as the sharpest politician he ever encountered. A surprising and interesting view I think.
These politicians themselves, probably had no understanding of the vast extent to which British jobs would be exported, using EU funds, going to Soviet countries, whilst at the same time British pay would suffer from a desperate rush to have citizens of those Soviet countries enter the UK so freely.
A fascinating debate. The point that seems to have remained constant is the willingness of UK to blame outsiders for our own structural weaknesses.
The UK Economy has moved on and so has Europe and the World, yet it appears that some people are still harping back to a time before the EU or EEC, which I lived through and would not want back.
The reason we joined the EEC was the weakness of the UK Economy during the 1960s, despite having set up EFTA to take the place of the declining importance of the Old Colonies. Those who did not go around British Leyland in the 1970s have no idea how uncompetitive were both the factories and the cars they made. This was despite the money poured into in by successive Labour & Tory Governments.
Dennis Skinner was a strong supporter of Coal Mining, with all its environmental damage, both underground and over ground. Yet you would be hard pressed to find a Labour MP who now supports the modern equivalent of Mining, namely Fracking. The Ship Building went to Poland (not in the EEC at that time) and the Far East. The British Coal Mining replaced with British Gas. British Leyland was replaced by Toyota, Honda, Nissan and BMW Mini.
The idea that the UK would have been better outside the EEC/EU, when so much of the UK Economy was moribund and in need of investment and reform is frankly laughable. Money has poured into this country since the formation of the EU, One Trillion Pounds per Annum, much of this has been to utilised the UK as the Gateway to Europe.
The only way, after a No Deal, to get inward investment on a grand scale, will be to slash Corporation Tax, Deregulated the Economy and making Dennis Skinner rage against the Capitalist. This has been advocated by Dyson (who does not manufacture any products in the UK, having moved it all to the Far East). Ironically, the same deregulation would been seen as the opportunity by the Far Left such a Corbyn to Renationalise Industries (he is on record saying as such), that were still in Public ownership, when this 1978 program was made. (The Far Right and Far Left are reunited again it would seem).
Of course in 1979, Mrs Thatcher swept to power and pursued the goal of a Serviced Based Economy (which it is now today at 80%) and the UK went on to have huge input into the design of the Single Market and compared with the EEC that the UK joined, the EU and its policies were strongly influenced by the UK Membership. Frank Skinner & Enoch Power were wrong, the Common Market was not a major issue in the 1979 Election. Here is the Tory Manifesto that won the election, which was not based on anti-EU rhetoric: www.conservativemanifesto.com/1979/1979-conservative-manifesto.shtml
When you look back at this program it is clear that, whilst somethings have not changed, much of what was said was completely wrong. There was not exactly prophecy, because it was USA Mortgage Scandal which destabilised the World Economy and Wars in Kuwait plus Iraq (that destabilised the Middle East & North Africa) and Afghanistan, that led to refugees and anti-muslim fear.
Is there a subject that Enoch wasn't right about? NO.
Enoch --AGREAT MAN
Skinner and Powell were right, and antagonism did start solidifying and building during the 80s.
I found, after watching both parts you kindly posted and after researching each individual - only 2 of them still alive as I write, Skinner and Pardoe, how the arguments between the various sides remain largely unchanged except when it comes to the EU. Labour were the eurosceptics and Conservatives the opposite. The conservative view was extremely naive though and I wonder what was behind it. Reginald Maudlin, once thought of as a Prime Minister in waiting, was fully committed. In fact it was Dennis Skinner and Enoch Powell who made the most sense on the matters. Poor Margaret Bain though, having to listen to "gentlemen" this and that all the time. Ah the seventies...
2024 and we are in deep do do. Imagine skinner Benn and powell running the show?! We have been a unit of a country,tragic.
How things change, a true labour looking after Britain’s interests, and a Great British hero like Enoch Powell
JOHN ENOCH POWELL WE NEED HIM NOW MORE THAN THEN
The Conservative Party is a European Party?
How times have changed.
Skinner wasn’t nearly so crotchety back then. Much more willing to speak to his audience respectfully. Much less strident.
Same clothes, though.
Thought I recognised that jacket!😂
You should've listened to Uncle Dennis and Uncle Enoch
What is a steel and ship building industry?
Listening to this it's quite clear we should have left the EU decades ago, the point's they're raising are the same points we're still talking about 40 years later
Oh the irony of their views......but good ole Enoch, quite the prophet wasn't he.......
Love it
Despite ThamesTV having been putting these videos out for 3 years, the algorithm only brought it to me after Boris got his majority.
Fuck, nothing has changed at all.
Hi 2024 here, it's got worse, a lot worse.
What a shame we haven't got any 1 of his class NOW
Enoch powell man of principle, speaks to the people not down to them Dennis Skinner same,cant stand the bloke, but spot on in this show.
Never liked skinner but I must admit he’s stuck to his guns on the Eu
Norman could play dracula Christopher Lee clone.
Strange to see Reggie Maulding, who was dead in barely 2 months.
All dead now except Dennis, poor Margaret Bain, then Ewing, died at 60.
48 years a mp soon dennis
I didn’t know Margaret had died. I remember her as an MP.
FIFTEEN POUND !!!! fking hell i have to pay my council £1500 a year just to empty my bins , and they cant even do that ,
Hello from 2024😂
Love the cogs turning in Enoch’s head as they’re talking. It must have been such a burden to have such an intellect
9:30 what a prophet. That guy knew our doom would be our half hearted Europeanism.
Interesting point about ford's, ford's Dagenham paid for Ford factory's in Europe at the expense of Dagenham being modernised
What did that Clown say Given large sums of money is he that thick not to know that they give us back some of the money that we gave them in the first place (red herring )
Why do these people care so much more about a country that they are not a citizen or representative of?
Can anyone make out Mellish's remark at 10:00? I'd love to know what he said to so tickle Enoch :)
Comfy
After the 2019 election the conservatives claim that they needed the EU issue on their side is quite humorous.
When giants walked the earth...
What happened to intelligent political discussion and intelligent MPs?
We need another Enoch Powell, there is a Dane from Copenhagen Mads Palsvig, who has his finger on the pulse, if only he were British.
I live in Denmark and the guy is a nothing. You cannot compare him with Skinner never mind Powell.
Most people today are totally unaware of the positions of the major parties in the Seventies, basically the majority position in those parties were the exact opposite of today, and the nationalists parties of the UK and Ireland even more so. I'm not a huge fan of the EU but I totally agree with one of the statements that said that if we are in it we should have been Boots and all so to speak, we have never really totally embraced it and basically that's why I think we should have left long ago. Ps Whatever your political beliefs I think the politicians of that era were vastly superior to today's batch. Even politicians that were on the opposite side of what I may have believed often made very good arguments against what I or others strongly believed, today it just seems Dogma or which party you belong to is all that counts. Whether you are more right leaning or left it isn't weakness to admit the other side have made a strong argument, I don't see a lot of that today.
some of the so called nationalist parties have be come European Unionist parties ,what a pity .
He was proven right
Mr Skinner is great
The reason we left was the EU wasn't progressive and just talked round in circles .
5:08 Theresa May when she a member of the SNP.