Charger Daytona vs. Dodge Charger Hellcat
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- čas přidán 5. 04. 2016
- Ever wondered how effective the nose cones and spoilers on those iconic Dodge Charger Daytona "aero warriors" really were? Autofocus.ca visited the ACE Wind Tunnel at the University of Ontario Institute of Technology (UOIT) to get some hard numbers on this outrageous-looking car's aerodynamics!
Check out the full story at:
www.autofocus.ca/news-events/f...
For more information on ACE visit: ace.uoit.ca
For more stories from autofocus visit: autofocus.ca - Věda a technologie
1968-1970 Chargers are just about the sexiest cars ever build
Conner Deppe will agree
I don’t agree ... My ‘71 Dodge Charger R/T is thee most sexiest car out there back in late 70s with 440 block + 440 emblems on raised front hood , , headers , glass packs , , racing wood steering wheel mind you , pistol grip shifter , 4.56 Dana posi rear , plum crazy purple paint & black interior with wood grain on instrument panel , front & back - black spoilers , shark gills on sides of body , chrome Cragers mags , wide 70s up front & wide 60s in back ...
When I launch it off the line my car frame would twist because of tons of torque it had .. Having a stock charger is no comparison against a all beef up , upgraded Dodge Charger R/T ..
Btw a 70 Plymouth Roadrunner with no front hood just a tunnel ram manifold with 2 - 850 Holley carbs sticking out of engine bay .....took me on down a small stretch of road before we get to city bus in curve...I kick his ass in 3rd gear and it was over quickly, so I shut it down , he yelled can I look at it , so I let him , he said can I drive your car and you drive my car.... I said 👎.. Why? Because I would’ve traded even up for his , a thing of beauty that Plymouth Roadrunner was my gosh!!!
Locus XXX you right 🙂
Still the sexiest ever
1966 Dodge Charger is sexiest
The Hellcat is a badass car. But line it up against the classic Chargers, and suddenly it looks like a Camry.
@MetalMastodon probably after the camry was heavily modified by someone
@MetalMastodon then it wasn't a real hellcat or that camry owner breaking some rules cause a stock brand new camry makes no more then 300hp and a hellcat makes 800hp
There's a lot more to drag racing than horsepower
@@woodyofp8574 torque and tires
@Fire&Ice909 i was replying to someone who must have deleted there comments idr what it originally said
They called a Daytona ugly. I am done I can’t take people’s ignorance the super bird and Daytona are beautiful cars.
dart swinger it is ugly tho
dart swinger Exactly mate.
Agreed
Its mostly the younger generations that don't understand the winged cars at all that think they are ugly. You have to remember that is coming from a generation of car enthusiasts that think Nissan Cubes and Scion XB's are awesome looking cars and actually drive around in those toasters...
@wally walton mate I want disagree I'm 16 and love these cars, but all my friends prefer sports and Supercars and wouldn't give muscle cars a chance. Not sure about rice burners though. I think most of us agree they are ugly. I'm from Australia though so maybe it's different over here. One thing I want to ask though is, is it your understanding that when these things were being produced they were considered to outlandish? because a quick google search says they didn't sell well.
"The charger *HELL CAT* may look like a family sedan, because it is"
Okay
*Hey kids you ever go 170mph?*
Yeah, that seemed like an odd comment to be made in the video.
It does have more of a sedan look which is why I prefer the challengers instead
my 22 year-old Porsche will go that fast hellcats will go 200😨
@@originalfiremancancelled7303 The Charger HC will top out around 202-204 the Challenger HC is a bit more drag limited and does around
190. The smooth buttress and longer roof line of the Charger HC really do matter in the wind tunnel and on top speed.
@Fuck You Well obviously you are welcome to believe whatever it is you wish.
Of course it makes you a moron.. But I'm ok with you being a moron.
4:11. And that's why the Daytona is better, it's a huge two door muscle car with an amazing nose cone and insane wing. Even if the new charger was faster, you'd still look way cooler going slow in the Daytona then you would in the new charger at any speed. For me, the Daytona is everything a muscle car should be, its big, loud and broke the speed records at all the NASCAR tracks until it was banned for being too fast and, unlike the new car with its complicated computers and other stuff to make it go fast, the Daytona is just pure, raw power.
The new chargers are at least 1000 lbs heavier too so if you did some mods to the engine you could easily pass a hellczt
@@rageriustheoverlord7086 straight fax
@@rageriustheoverlord7086 If you put an hellcat engine in a Charger Daytona you will have an even better car.
@@TheLeonmafioso Not necessarily.
@@cubcadet122 707 Horsepower from the Hellcat Vs let's say 550HP of Second Gen Hemi stock form, less weight over front wheels (like 10% less) means also better performance. Now, if you uses the RedEye Hellcrate are 807 HP, and if you go extreme with the Hellephant (426CU 1000 HP Aluminium block and Heads) would be mucho powerfull.
I can't believe you didn't put any quantitative data. Who the hell is happy knowing drag is "way down?" Great concept but atrocious presentation.
yea i agree
yea i agree
yea i agree
Use the link in the description to see the data, like "At 200 km/h (124 mph) our final numbers were 373 lbs of lift on the front end and almost 80 lbs of down force out back".
@@Ziggy_MoonglowThat's great info but why did they stop at 124mph? The Daytona ran 200mph and even when it wasn't running that fast, Nascar speeds were still over 160mph. What does the new Charger and Daytona make at those speeds?
The guy who does your audio should be fired.
Field Lmao “Audiojungle”
That's standard for marketing films...
You didnt dig the obviously lifted from GTA4 intro music?
Field I
Oh yes. It feels like I'm the only one complaining about heavy-handed audio. When someone's talking, the music shouldn't be the foreground. For anyone that doesn't know, reducing music for voice is called "ducking" and it's standard practice for professional AV work. Most of the music is pretty cheesy too.
Conclusion, a pointy thing on the front is more aerodynamic than a square boxy design, Who would have guessed?
would much rather have a giant spoiler though
Ye, nothing beats the Daytona
catguy4 it's not just the spoiler but the shape of. Front bumpee
It's a wing, FFS!
I would really appreciate some data, damn this analytical presentation.
The autofocus link in the description is much long and does include some of them
TrebuShade I could swear I’ve seen this before with numbers and as “ stock Dodge Charger “ I find it helpful especially if you’re moding it
So the lesson to be learned is that I need a removable nose cone and wing for long trips in my 67 mustang to save gas
D J no wing for long trips “ other airo parts “ ford did the same things to their platforms in the late 60s
D J I’ve been thinking of adding a Front splitter for better ground effects and more cooling capacity by forcing air in things like brake ducting or heat exchangers.
Hopefully not making it ugly or giving up something I want like to much ground clearance ( bottoming out on every speed bumps ) or worst adding extra bits that are useless and don’t have a performance gain
Guys...you did an entry level job assessing drag and downforce. Congrats. The Daytona and Bird were race cars..racing was driving to the edge of control. You totally missed the verticals. Both cars could stay stable in yaw at 200mph when the tires got loose. EEEE-normous advantage. The Hellcat ain't got none that. Also...you missed that the winged wonders were not designed by automotive engineers...A guy from Chrysler's MISSILE division (yes...MISSILE) did the deeds.
i thought and i did read somewhere that Chrysler asked to NASA engineers how to improve the Dodge Charger for NASCAR.
I like how almost all the information in the video is basic stuff most people can tell just by looking at it
nikko stereo integrated stereo amp and around and around
Dodge would make BIG sales if they come up with a 2 door charger with Classic Looks like the 70's charger. we don't need a sedan we don't need a steady presisition car we need good lasting looks and a lasting engine!!!!. please make it happen !!!!
ASTEROIDALAIN yeah they did a really good job with the challengers throw back look, too bad they didn't do it with the charger too
The Challenger is super unaerodynamic for a modern car though, they should go with a style inspired by the old car but fix the aerodynamics to modern standards. I really think someone should do a Daytona version of the modern Challenger, it would be much better. Or they just Lower/round of the front/Bonet by making the head lights into wide and low rectangles while keeping the styling of the current lights( look at the Bugatti chiron headlights), making the front less flat, "rounding" the sides(by the headlights) by giving a outward angle to the front while keeping the center fairly flat. Keeping a lot of angles and aggression in the styling and doing that with the car would make it good and not have the aerodynamics of a brick, while looking mean as hell.
ASTEROIDALAIN when you truly think about sells today and economy , they will most likely lose alot of money from doing that , it just ain't all about being car guy or just wanting a cruising car , that's why they have two separate options the challenger and the charger for people , who want options . Furthermore , they really not going back to their classic design because it's cause too much Drag and poor fuel economy .
P.S , the comment I made is not to offend nobody , I just expressing my opinion , but but I do really like a concept though .
Martin Hübinette there is a company out there making new superbirds and daytonas.
Martin Hübinette Then the Challenger would look wayyy too modern.
this is video that i've ben looking for for over 5 years
1969 Charger, just about the best looking muscle care ever built!! Love it!
Guys, you forgot the CD numbers. The test is pointless without it.
If I won the lottery I would buy all 3 of those cars. I love Dodge
Lane Boy dodge is the pinnacle of American muscle!
Lane Boy Amen brother MOPAR or No car.
Randy Pataska What do you mean sorry for me.
It's sad seeing these classic cars not be driven any more because they are too valuable. When I was in college in 1976, one of the guys in my dorm actually had a Plymouth SuperBird that was his daily driver. They weren't even that expensive around that time. None of the muscle cars were. You could pick them all up used for a song.
In my youth there was a time that I drove both cars in a weekend and they were fun at 30 or 130 mph.
What he does not know it the Charger Daytona's Wing. Helps a lot in corners, at high speed tracks. It helped the rear from steeping out. The more the air hit the up rights. It pushed back and keep the car straight.
Thank you for sharing. We appreciated it.
Liked and Subscribed.
I want my first car to be a 1970 Charger Hemi RT
if u got 150-200k lol, those things are on crazy markups now.
You guys should do a 78 trans am next
"most steady"?
No, it's "steadiest," as in conjugation.
Excellent video thank you
Anyone who drove their late 60`s early 70`s muscle cars can attest to the floating feeling they had at high speeds.
But... If given... I would take the Daytona home over the other 2 😁, just because it looks cool with the spoiler and the cone.
I would rather, personally take the Superbird over the Daytona. The way the cone and spoiler look on the Super just looks better to me.
too bad they didn't do a 70 coronet too.
And a Dart vs Demon
Also, Superbee vs Roadrunner
Or Elliott's 87/88 T-bird. That's what Im so curious about
Chrysler did do a 1969 Coronet 3/8 scale test and that data is available at the AeroWarriors "Chrysler Document Archive". You'll have to comb through all the pages to find it and once you do, you can verify my numbers. 481 Front and -151 Rear at 190 MPH. 734# of drag at 180 MPH.
@@LtJackboot Coronet is a Superbee. Road Runner was extensively tested. 440 Front and -35 Rear lift with 1.5 degrees of rake at 190 MPH. 704# of drag at 180 MPH.
I was 16 in 1978. There were 2 Charger Daytona's running around town, back then. A yellow one and a blue one. It was always cool to see them on the roads. Early 80's some guy was driving around a General Lee replica, that was cool too.
I had a buddy that had a 69 440 Charger auto, my best friend had a '71 383 Charger 4 speed. Smoked a lot of pot, drank a lot of beer. A great time was had by all. Today, we are under Corona virus lock down...bored as hell.
Good looking? They are fuccing beautiful
ANYTHING 23 is right? Chargers are hella sexy some people are just blind.
With this old Charger , perhaps one of the great looking feature of Gm intermediate of the mid '60 was those recessed rear glass ... beautiful but non efficient .
No way does the Hellcat have the same downforce (even close) as the Daytona....also the rear wing was adjustable. The 69 Daytona also has a MUCH lower Cd than the Hellcat.
That's probably why they ONLY showed the readings on the stock charger at the beginning.
"And it doesn't need that giant rear wing or nose cone to achieve the kind of speeds the charger daytona did in 1969."
LOL, It NEEDS 150-200hp MORE to achieve the same speeds.
FYI, Race spec Daytona/superbirds at chryslers Proving grounds were clocked at speeds the Hellcat couldn't dream of.
The Daytona ran 200mphs at Talladega, which has a front stretch of ONLY 2,275ft long.....the Hellcat's 202mph top speed run was done a track with straights 10,560ft long.So the Daytona go to the same speed in about 1/5th the distance.
FYI, the link in the additional Info. is incorrect. The Hellcat's Official top speed was 204.55mph...not the articles claimed 206mph.
Actually top speed run video -
czcams.com/video/q7eZ_qlDf40/video.html
Another issue with this test is that the 69 Daytona didn't have the hemi...which was about 95lbs heavier than the 440..Not sure if it had different springs(of course the race car did) but the weight would have lessened the front end lift/angle. Hemi car would have less front end lift regardless.
Crazy thing is that the Older = wider & Much higher ground clearance 69 Daytona STILL has less drag, " ...despite the 45 years - and differences in scientific understanding - separating the two vehicles." from the article.
That's right. Not many people also know that those big vertical fins of the rear spoiler are also helping to stabilize the car at high speeds, reducing butt shake.
Yes, we adjusted the rear wing's angle on the Daytona to get the best reading. The lift on the front end is essentially the same between the two cars; and the Hellcat had only 20 lbs less downforce over the rear than the Daytona.
The full data was posted in the accompanying Autofocus.ca article; the readings were left out of the video simply for time. (It wasn't my call as producer, I would've done the video very differently, but that's how things worked out.)
And, yes, unfortunately the AF article is down, now.
I remember the The "The king" from cars
That hellcat needs about 25 years to see if anybody cares about it or even trys to restore one. Speed power technology it's hard to top the classics on style alone.
Way cool comparison between the 3 cars
Did anyone else notice the front wheels turning on the Hellcat Charger when it was on the dyno at the end?
I could not open the link for the data obtained in this study, but I can say that from my own experience with a 1969 Dodge Charger with a 383 engine the front end of my car lifted off the ground at speeds near 110mph. I don't know if I had any headwind, probably very little.
I'm a chevy guy, I'd like to see just how aerodynamic my 60 Impala is
The primary purpose of the rear wing was to keep the back end from sliding sideways in corners. More speed in corners without getting lose means faster lap times. Remember the car was designed to go fast straight (Nose and rear window.) and in circles. (Wing.) Simple stuff really.
I hate to be this guy but richard pettys 200 mph car was a plymouth superbird not a daytona
TheMotoGamer Buddy Baker was the first to hit 200mph and it was a Dodge Daytona. No NASCAR driver went 200 mph in a NASCAR event until 1982. It was at Talladega that Benny Parsons went 200.176 mph qualifying lap for the Winston 500. Don't think petty ever went 200 in the superbird.
TheMotoGamer Chrysler corporation owned dodge and Plymouth so the superbird was based on the success of the Daytona. I also noticed the superbird picture lol.
i don't know if he went 200mph but his superbird's name was the 200mph superbird
and also i commented the first one because i hear so many times people say that richard petty's car was a dodge charger not a superbird
bro its the same fucking thing dipshit
Subscribing right now !!!!!
The main reason the rear wing was so tall was so that the trunk could be opened.
Early designs had the wing much lower but the trunk would only open six inches. Engineers then raised the wing higher and higher, noting the positive effect on the down force generated. They also noted that the taller wing generated more downforce with less drag at lower trim angles and the lower wing with higher angles of attack.
The race Daytona has a Cd of .29, the street Daytona is about .37, and the Hellcat Charger has a Cd of .33.
The street Daytona has a lot of drag due to the mirrors and window areas.
Don't forget the race Daytonas sat 6" lower to the ground which is why those useless air scoops were on the front fenders of the street Daytonas - the undersides were cut out to help clearance the tires from the lowered suspension in race trim
I know someone who had a 1970 Challenger R/T with a 440. He said he drove it so fast one day and came over a bit of a bump in the road and wind got under the front end and he felt it get real light ... he let off the gas and nearly shit himself and never did that again. I have no doubt the front wheels nearly came off the ground.
I'm attempting to go 215mph with 1000whp in a 2016 Hellcat challenger iat Kennedy Space Center. What things can I do to improve my cars drag coefficient?
That "audio Jungle" watermark at the beginning XD
Hellcat=engine 🔥
Daytona=desing 🤩
I wish dodge would slap together some more 2dr Chargers
Dain Bramage yeah unfortunately they won't because they sell alot of them as cop cars
The Challenger is already a cut down Charger, so what would be the point?. That's why it's so much heavier than Camaro and Mustang.
They did... in 2008. Its called Challenger. That’s today’s economics.
brycmttw, yeah, the old Charger and Challenger were on completely separate platforms. The current ones share the same.
I agree, making a 4-door Charger is disrespectful to the car's history. I'm not sure what's worse though, that or 4 cylinder engines in the new Camaro and Mustangs smh
Charger Daytona vs. Dodge Charger Hellcat : Who else thought there was going to be a race ?
I believe the superbird had a slightly different angle on the rear spoiler vs the Daytona charger. I wonder what the difference is with downforce....
The vertical wing components on the Superbird are indeed raked back further than they are on the Daytona; this was because the styling department got a hold of the Plymouth and wanted to make it look better, but they had no say in designing the Dodge. Not sure of the aero effect, but packaged with the other changes between the two cars it might be measurable.
@@nickmaronese No. It's because the angled stabilizing was more aerodynamic, less drag. The nose of the Superbird was not as aero as the Daytona, while the vertical stabilizers on the Superbird were more aero than the Daytona. All of that information and more is available from the Chrysler document archive at aerowarriors dot com.
Everyone on this thread should read up.
As far as downforce, both cars had 0 at the front and 0 to 250 at the rear, at 190 MPH.
@@Ziggy_Moonglow Fair enough! It'd been a while (three years) since I'd read through that research, I was likely thinking of the nose and not the stabilizers. Thanks for the correction!
Honestly, the people watching these videos are into science and data and learning. Not some generic "drag went down" explanation. Fortunately the data is available in the link in the description, but that could have been mentioned in the video too.
The wind tunnel is just down the street from my house
Now imagine a hellcat engine in the Daytona
It would probably break 230mph, lol...
Always found this study fascinating, My Low Budget Field studies,, with my twin 68 Dodge Dart,, One still Slant6 and other V8 swap, Since Lowering frront is easy due to Torsion Bar adjustment, While Windshield is wet, Stock height,, like most late 60s car's nose pointed up, Absolutely No Water will move at Speed, none, only after Lowering my Dart, until Water would move " about 8 to 10 inches of the top, did I finally get a difference in overall stability, especially at speed over 85mph and over 110mph.. also opening cowl vents,,
Cómo ha Sido la evolución del muy preciado Dodge CHARGER 🤩
Wow that Charger is a beauty
shouldv done it with the charger 500
The old charger is what Dodge used to stand for. Always setting the bar high and not caring about the look.
Dodge charger had a better aero package than the superbird and is that a fact. Beep-Beep. Love them both....
Citation needed.
That 69 Charger is freaking gorgeous. I'd take the Daytona first though, then that, and I'm not all too thrilled about the Hellcat.
The Daytona looks like the Golden Fox from F-Zero but on 4 wheels instead of 4 rocket engines
IMO Have the Hellcat race a Hemi Dart now that would be a race I would pay to see.
Wearing a smock automatically makes you an expert
For those wondering what the drag coefficient is on a STOCK Daytona tested in a wind tunnel.
The Cd is .37 . That is point thirty seven.
Source : www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=108784.0
And to the folks that wasted my time with this video and didn't mention the drag coefficient, you get a thumbs down for the click bait.
Now take a hell cat engine and put it in the Daytona charger. Would the performance be a whole lot better?
This video deserves more views, the title and thumbnail should also say it's comparing against the modern hellcat too!
i would have liked a longer more in depth video
Why are all 4 wheels turning when the hellcat was on the dyno, isn't it rwd?
I really wish they went classic with the new charger instead of a sedan when they redesigned it
In American TV shows you have to explain simple physics theories like drag 😂
Little do they know the weight of the new chargers is also a lot more than the old one
It looked good. Thats all there is to it and all there need to be .
where is the quant data? is it too hard to put up 3 data logs?
About one that says Plymouth or the side is a super bird I have no idea why he put that in there granted they are similar but they aren't the same
You talk about Dodge Daytona, but show Richard Petty's Plymouth Roadrunner, small visual difference, huge performance difference.
sweet!! vid
The ad I got was a honda ad for the type r civic, irl vs Forza Motorsport 7, also #SLAPTRAIN
Onlywarrior565 link?
SotoPlays it was an ad :|
gaaaaaaayyy
Dream job right here
Nice
I NEED NUMBERS!
I love Dode
1:16 stock with 300mm width tires ...
@4:14 How the heck are those front tire spinning if thats a rear wheel drive car
rollers are connected
Pretty cool but the Daytona in race trim would have looked nothing like the street version they used and the only reason for the added aerodynamics was for racing. The race car would have set very low thereby further reducing front end lift and they had adjustable spoilers to tailor the amount of rear lift needed as different tracks demanded. I would love to see a real Daytona race car in a wind tunnel to see how the aero additions worked for real. No matter what though, they saved Dodge from a seriously losing season. I have read that the stock bodied Charger in '68 would lose control because of front end lift over 180mph. It was so bad that Richard Petty left Dodge and went over to Ford because he was so upset over the design. It wasn't until the Daytona's came out in '69 and were finally competitive against Ford with some really good showings that Petty was coaxed back to Plymouth with a promise that they would have a winged car for '70. What surprises me is how much a '68/'69 Torino looks like a '66/'67 Charger. Although large cars they must be an aerodynamically sound design for high speeds.
The 68 charger actually had a lot of lift at the back end that would lift up the rear at high speed because of the tunnel window. The front end on the 68's just created a lot of wind resistance because of the sunken grille. In 69 they made the charger 500 with the coronet flush grille and the flush rear window, fastback style to start off the aero wars with Ford. The 66 and 67 fastback chargers looked aerodynamic but actually had a higher drag than the notch back Dodges and Plymouths because of the large surface area and no rear wing. The 66 and 67 fastback would lift the rear at high speeds too, more than the notch backs. It has to do with the huge fastback rear acting as a big one piece inverted foil that acts as a wing and provides lift...upward...and lifting the rear enough to unload the suspension slightly instead of squatting down. Made for a very unsettling ride at high speeds. Many fastback cars after 68 have a lip at the rear, or a ductail extension or a wing to counteract that lift. Still though, nothing looks better than the coke bottle shape of the 68-70 chargers. They really did look fast just standing still.
“The charger hellcat looks like a family sedan”.....🤦🏼♂️
lol butt tress
Isn't that black and white pic a 70 Plymouth Superbird 🤔
I watched for the “hard numbers”, didn’t see them. Clicked on the link, saw more actual data. It’s an interesting comparison. Even a poorly developed quasi-modern Chrysler today is better in a wind tunnel than an actual race car from 45 years ago. No CD was published here that I saw but I’d wager that’s massively improved. All of these basically suck though. :)
I thought they were gonna race the Daytona against the hellcat. This is dumb
lets be honest, it's obvious wich one you would choose if you had the chance
All 3 are cool cars.
I hate to break it to those engineers, that stock Daytona ain’t going 200 mph. Richard Petty did 200+ in a highly modified Daytona RACE car. There is a HUGE difference.
Is the Dodge Daytona and the Plymouth Superbird the same?
Lol i was expected them to nail it like theyre on a dyno wtf
Where did you even find a '69 charger Daytona, let alone a Daytona and rt
Should of added a 69 Charger 500 to the equation.
KICK THE GUY WHO DOES YOUR AUDIO OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!
ALPHA PLAYZZ yes
I expected a drag race
What about the newer daytona chargers
Shows 200 on the dashboard of the hellcat like we don't know its reading kilometres
All we learned is that you didn't tell us the drag coefficient.Which means the 69 Daytona must have been better.
I'm pretty sure it was 69 Daytona, since they were banned from Nascar, and one of the reasons, was their drag coefficient was so much better than all the other cars.