Romanian ZB-30 LMG: Improving the Already-Excellent ZB-26
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- utreon.com/c/forgottenweapons/
/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/For...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenweapons.com
Brno's ZB-26 was one of the best light machine guns of the 1920s, and it was widely adopted by countries that did not have domestic arms design and production capacity (and it would eventually become the British Bren gun as well). It was designed for the 8mm Mauser cartridge, and had a simple fixed gas system that ran very well - until countries began following the German lead in moving to standard use of s.S. (schweres Spitzgeschoß; heavy ball) ammunition. This put undue strain on the ZB-26 mechanism, and so an improvement was made to include an adjustable gas system that could be set to accommodate a variety of loadings. This experimental model was the ZB-27, and it was tested by Romania in the late 1920s.
Romania like the design, and adopted it in 1930, purchasing guns from Brno and also buying a license to produce them at the Cugir factory complex in Romania. Today we are taking a look at two examples of Romanian ZB-30s, one Czech-made and one Romanian-made. They both incorporate a number of improvements over the ZB-26 (improved barrel latch security, rear monopod socket, bipod locking lever, etc) but also have a few minor differences between each other.
Thanks to the Southern Iceland Shooting Association for helping me film these and other cool guns in Iceland!
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle 36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
Basically, the ZB-26 and the ZB-30 is the whole "Daniel and the Cooler Daniel" meme but in gun form.
Interesting firearm, weird that Iceland specifically has it
It is in a club in Iceland, Iceland does not "have" it...
Until recently getting a collectors license was very simple
You’d be surprised the weird gems that make their way around the world. I found a Romanian VZ 24 contract rifle at a local pawn shop for 300 bucks. Overall the journey of some of these guns is just as if not more interesting then the story behind the guns themselves.
@nono-jj9rr he's still factually correct, Iceland doesn't have it, as it wasn't ever fielded by the Icelandic police or coast guard.
It's been bought by a private collector.
How does being correct make the poster a Liberal?🤷♂️
@@nono-jj9rr👈 how to prove you're a moron in 3 words or less. 🙌🙌
CUGIR is pronounced CUJIR. Romanian Navy ret. officer, here. As I commented in other videos of yours, your Romanian Military firearms presentations are awesome and no Romanians did the work you do. This was the reason I subscribed to your channel.
Regarding the payment problems you mentioned, I can say that there were several scandals during the 1930s, in Romania, regarding embezzelment of the funds assigned for Romanian Military procurements, involving high ranked officials even the king Carol II Hohenzollern, an gambler and playboy who simply stole a large amount of money and wasted it in Monte Carlo casinos, and with his mistress. Another big corruption scandal was called "The Skoda Affair".
One more time, congrats and best regards!
Yeah, I didn't;'t realize the correct pronunciation until after filming this one. However, I am planning a trip to Romania next spring to do a bunch of filming, and I will get it right in those. :)
@@ForgottenWeapons It would be a honor to visit our humble country. Thank you for keeping gun history alive!
@@ForgottenWeapons I can't wait to watch the videos you would do about Romania. And perhaps, who knows, maybe we would meet.
Correct pronounciation is « coo-geer ». In romanian phonetic, u => “oo”, g + i => “gee”. You’re welcome, Mr. Navy Officer :)
@@bogdanmateiciuc9034 Yeah, right. Thanks mate.
I was issued this weapon as national guard in 1989 to "defend" a bridge ...
Luckily for us none attacked our pitiful position.
Did you ever use it during the revolution?
@@allengordon6929
no, thanks God !
Just a little note. The ZB 30 machine gun was produced by Zbrojovka Brno, but it was never accepted into the Czechoslovak army. However, it was exported to Iran, Turkey or Romania. And as Ian said, license were issued to othe countries to manufacture.
Greetings from Czechia
Thank you for more information.
I was just thinking, years from now if Ian were to get Alzheimer's, all weapons could become "forgotten weapons."
The Zbrojovka Brno factory area has mostly been razed to the ground and a community campus is to be built in its place. A single factory hall and a "boiler room building" are all that's left of the original facility. There's an outdoor cinema every summer. It'll be a nice place to visit in a few years :)
@@Tallmios That's really cool-and not an uncommon scenario-thanks for the information. I'm glad the land of the former factory is being put to good use.
Thought it was gonna be that familiar story. Military: asks for firearm for specific cartridge. Factory: Builds flawless model. Military: Buys thousands, then immediately changes cartridge specs. and begins complaining.
I designed a d*mn fine weapon! 😉
Ian, you did a fine job with this video, but I'll add a few points for depth:
Designations:
ZB = Zbrojovka Brno, that is a factory designation
vz. = vzor, which means "model" this is a Czech military designation
Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Jugoslavia had a mutual defense pact, nicknamed "The Little Entant" to keep Hungary in check. As part of this pact, the three countries agreed to standardize on weapons and ammunition. That is why Czechoslovakia and Romania adopted the vz.24 in 7,92x57mm, Jugoslavia adopted the FN Model 24, also in 7,92x57mm, and all adopted the ZB-26/ZB-30/ZB-30J series of LMGs
very interesting! explains the "entente" pact in wargame.
@@Dymitr_Nawrocki wz.
@@Dominic1962that's Polish. It's vz in Czech.
@@mulrich I was replying to someone who was saying it was the same in Polish, not that op was incorrect.
@@Dominic1962 ah, they must have deleted their comment. I see now that the usernames are different. My apologies
My unit confiscated a Syrian version of a Bren the was made to fire belted ammunition. All of the markings were in Arabic and we never figured out what round it was designed to fire. It broke my heart when we were ordered to wrap all of the confiscated weapons with Detcord
I would have tried to put in your regimental museum!
@willyberg123 we couldn't decipher what round it fired. The only markings were in Arabic, and it had no ammunition when it was confiscated.
@TheCrusher72 we tried. In Afghanistan, it required approval of a 2 star General or higher to bring back unit trophies. Ours refused
@@sgtmajorbuzzyour general is a fudd
@@elijahaitaok8624 probably. I never met him. He was at Bagram with fast food restaurants and coffee shops while we were embracing the suck in Khost
The machining looks absolutely gorgeous. Cycling the bolt is probably buttery smooth.
Note the predecessor to the Bren was the Lewis, which was not a British design either.
Wrong.
I'm sure Holland and Holland, Purdey, etc. could have made machine guns. They would take 6 months a unit to build and cost $50k a piece. They would have fit each Private flawlessly though!
I always found it funny how well equipped Romanian infantry forces were in WWII, especially considering how little heavy industry they had…
Were they well equipped tho? I mean,could they afford to equip everyone?i think they had great gear but not enough of it
infantry weapons were comparable with those of British. In 1944 they build their own weapons from rifles to the AT Guns
It's a whole lot easier and less resource-intensive to make guns than tanks, I'd imagine.
Romania always finds a way.
@@sageburner127 Their ”Mareșal” tank destroyer inspired Hetzer (”British historian Mark Axworthy suggests that the design for the Hetzer was likely rooted in the Romanian Mareşal tank destroyer.”)
in reality those were used in Romania until 1989 with Patriotic Guards! they had also vz. 24 (also 8mm) and Orița SMGs. and even MG 42.
Did you ever use one?
@@allengordon6929 no, I was not on Patriotic Guards and even there only just a small part of them had those weapons. Other of them had older Soviet style weapons like PPsh (PPȘ Md. 1952" build also at Cugir) or RPD LMG. Others of them had AK G (Guard! which were selled in USA later) and more newer MG.
@@MrQ454 i was under the impression that all civilians were in the patriotic guard back then.
@@allengordon6929 a large proportion, but not all, were even women (a smaller proportion). It depended on the military service performed before and the job. The others were part of the reserve. In general, the guards corresponded to the place of the factories (or the companies where they were), there was the weapons store assigned to each unit. In the countryside, they were coordinated by agents from the communal militia stations, where their armory also existed. If I'm not mistaken, even in the countryside they were armed more with WW2 weapons (ZBVz 24 carbines).
@@MrQ454 figures. For whatever reason there are a lot of women in romania's military (and other such services), even as combat troops.
"The British liked buying guns they design themselves"
Well apart from the SNYDER-Enfield, MARTINI-Henry, GATLING, GARDNER, NORDENFELT, and MAXIM guns, the LEE-Metford, LEE-Enfield, HOTCHKISS Portative, and the LEWIS gun.
Besa tank mg (ZB 37)
He said "Liked", not that they were all that successful at it. 🙃
When compare something British genuine like STEN and PIAT... :D
@@MrQ454
Both of which performed their design riteria very well
@@MrQ454 I wonder how many man-hours per gun they saved by giving it the most useless grip design in the history of firearms.
That whole bolt and carrier assembly is just beautiful. Machined to perfection 👌🏼
Amazing...................
Friends of mine who visited Iceland as tourists, came for the glaciers, the whales and the hot gush springs.
Not so Ian.
He came for a Romanian Light Machine Gun.
😎💪🤟
The machining on the ZB30 is amazing.
For being almost a century old that gun is in amazing shape! Looks almost brand new. And the more Czech guns I learn about the more I think they really are just about the best firearm designers.
They're still the best on the continent.
They were also the first culture in europe to adopt firearms on a widespread scale, the turks being the second.
Im very pleased to hear correct pronunciation of the name of Vaclav Holek. just by the way, I live in Brno and from my window I have a look on former Zbrojovka Brno factory. unfortunatly, there is nothing left from the factory. just piece of the directors building.
These are just so classy, all the well thought out features....
Beautiful, Machining is truely impressive. Interesting HK mark on the bolt.
I'm just imaging the faces of the people during testing when the barrel hlew downrange.
Instead of the M1918A2 BAR, imagine the US fighting with a 30-06/7.62mm ZB26/BREN in WW2/Korea/Vietnam
one of those cases when the hint "everybody is using that thing, should we?" wasn't picked up and a domestic design ended up to be wonky.
*cough* FAL *cough*
"Liked buying stuff the had designed themselves" No doubt. But they weren't shy about adopting foreign designs (nor should they have been). The Lee-Enfield, the Lewis gun, the Lanchester, the FN P-35, the Browning aircraft gun and the Oerlikon are a few examples. Even the Vickers was a modified foreign design.
@@JohnMoses1897 Largely, yes.
I'm always surprised at how many changes have been made to the ZB 26 and all have gotten it to run, even with the .303. Thanks to the folks in Iceland.
@@JohnMoses1897 Also kind of a shame that it didn't work out with the EM 2 and the .280, that would have been just the right answer to the AK 47.
The Brits wanted to adopt a rimless rifle cartridge even before WW1. Then the war happened, so plans put on hold. Post war it was decided that all that WW1 surplus .303 made it cheaper to just stick with the rimmed round. So they kind of backed themselves into a corner in that regard. Somehow they got the .303 to feed well even in very fast firing machine guns like their aircraft mounted, open bolt version of the Browning M1919, and the Vickers K aircraft defensive gun.
They did also adopt 7.92mm Mauser for their tank mounted BESA machine guns, due to a lack of time to redesign the weapon for .303. So during WW2 there were factories in the UK making what was essentially Wermacht ammo!
Give a grunt a piece of kit that works and he'll take off your hand if you try to take it away.
In its guise as the Bren, the ZB became so British that it flies a Spitfire and has a seat in the House of Lords. 😉
this gun seems awfully ahead of its time.
Thanks for the history and information Ian, I really enjoyed this during my lunchbreak. You really fleshed out the little information my grandad gave me regarding the BREN's history.
Your last few videos have been great. These prewar guns are just gorgeous.
The Cugir manufactured version also has wrench flats on the flash hider (I suppose in case you need to adjust the gas when it's caked/dirty).
Incredible design and build quality
Gorgeous machining on that thing
Thank you Ian, as always.
I’ve got one that has HK stamped into the bolt (like what Ian has here 15:00) and a Yugoslavian crest on the receiver. This tells me the Germans seized control of the factory while it was still being manufactured. After the Germans completed its assembly and sent it back to the German Army for acceptance, it received the HK proof mark from Heinrich Krieghoff. No waffenamts, but there is what could be a unit marking “1.TR” on the stock. Unfortunately the barrel on mine has been destroyed, so if anyone in the US has one or can make one for sale, please let me know!
Guns destined for the SS didn't get waffenamnts, at least early on, as they were equipped outside officials channels. Hence a lot of odd, but cool, Guns like mp-35, m1932 broomhandles, zb-26 etc
1 TR Is #1 Teknici Remontni (1 Technical Repair) in Serbo-Croat, in Latin script.
So a Yugo issued gun, may be recovered after WWII.
The Germans ( esp. Waffen SS) used these Yugo guns on Eastern Front, as did Italian Bersaglieri Motorised units in Russia ( wartime It. and Ger. Photos)
DocAV
I can't remember? Has Forgotten Weapons ever covered the "Sustained Fire Machine Gun, XII E4" a sort of "belt fed BREN" or the "TADEN" gun which was being developed alongside the EM-2, (also known as Rifle, No.9, Mk.1 or Janson rifle). Would be interesting to see the developmental progress (& dead-ends) that the project had against the ZB-26 & ZB-30 LMG.
Are there examples of these with the Royal Armouries? Johnathon Ferguson may have covered them if they do.
Not here but the Royal Armouries channel, hosted by Johnathan Ferguson, did release a video of an example they have about a year ago.
@@kutter_ttl6786 Ah, must have missed that one. Will go & have a look for it, thank you.
@@LadyAnuB Thanks, someone else suggested that. I must have missed that one from The Royal Armouries. Off to look for it.
Well presented and explained ! Congratulation for your dedication and contribution on firearms collectibles !
12:04 one of those rare editing-goofs 😅
A true RELIC and in amazing condition! Thanks again!!!
As a Romanian, thank you. Also interesting as of why Iceland?!? 🤔
go see LOCK STOCK AND TWO SMOKING BARRELS, great movie and a great slow-motion scene of a BREN gun shooting, all hail BRNO CZ for the best LMG of WW2 and beyond!
Iceland, like Ireland before it, is turning out to be a fantastic source of original material untouched by such mundane concerns as "expedience" in terms of their archival material.
Thank you for your videos!!!
Amazing video like always!! Love the content
Pristine example of Precision machined heavy steel of days yore...
There is a just a few differences between Ians two takes of the same shot at 12:20. They tell the same story but they are subtely different
Fascinating as always. In North America, we have too little appreciation of Romania.
Slight correction on the Cugir pronunciation : It's "coojeer"
Buna treabă corecția asta!
It sounds like cugîr.
Enjoyed the video very much, thank you
That's a beautiful piece of history.
Thank you , Ian .
🐺 Loupis Canis .
It's a work of beauty
Yes... an excellent example for sure!!
at 12 minutes I thought my mind was playing tricks on me, but it was just a scene change with narration repeat
wonderful weapon ! ... and nice detailed report, as usua lin yr style Ian.. !
I have two in Brno made ZB-30 for Romania, but one of them have some parts (barel lock etc.) made in Cugir numbered in 48 000 range.
I watched and listened to you lock the magazine in 28 times.
ZB-27 unannounced bonus feature: projectile throwing 😅
If only it had a bayonet mount!😁
@@haldorasgirson9463 😂
The shoulder thing that goes up😂
*drool* I'd love to own / shoot any ZB. My favorite shooting experience of all time was firing a BREN gun, so I'm certain I'd love the ZB...
We've finally discovered what "the shoulder thing that goes up" is!
hey Ian, excellent video, just a small observation: these LMGs were not actually taken out of service after the WP integration, they were indeed gradually relegated to non-front line and popular militia type of units (Patriotic Guards), but they were actually standard issue for such forces well into the 80s and the 90s. "If it works, dont fix" kind of thing. I even remember seeing themin the hands of people during the '89 Revolution, and seeing them up close, as a kid it struck me that they seemed so much bigger and meaner and .... more gunny than the AKMs and whatnot :)
Also, can you perhaps please shed some light on how/why would it contain an HK bolt? Is it contemporaneous with the weapon, or is it a later addition?
Thanks,
Edit: I just realized you're probably talking about Romania. I'm talking about the use of ZB vz. 26 in Czechoslovakia in my reply.
They were also used by the regular army in border fortifications for a very long time because those were built with these guns in mind. The forts received new anti-tank guns but the machine guns remained mostly the same.
@originalyankee9326 Also, can you perhaps please shed some light on how/why would it contain an HK bolt? Is it contemporaneous with the weapon, or is it a later addition?
Connected HK, circled HK, and separate H K variant markings are commonly found on interwar Czech-manufacture weapons, often on bolts and magazines. I've heard the marking be attributed to being proofed/assembled by Heinrich Krieghoff, however the markings are found on weapons whose manufacture is not associated with and did not involve Krieghoff, so I'm unconvinced of that connection. In any case, it is an 'original to gun' marking, and (probably) not a replacement part, though if it is, it would still be contemporaneous. It has no relation to Heckler and Koch.
@12:00 editing error? Great Video as always!
Always enjoyable 👍👍👍
視界の問題とかあるけど、マガジンを上から挿す機関銃が好き。
機関部がコンパクトにまとめることもできるしね。
I like she put the video of the zb26 on screen too.
I always like being thanked for tuning in to forgotten weapons because if I wasn't thanked for my presence I would probably become irate in the comments section.
I wonder why Germany went to heavier ammunition if they were perpetually short on reosuces. Was lead maybe in greater supply than smokeless powder?
No, resources weren't (much of) a factor. They designed a longer bullet with better ballistics at longer ranges.
@@MarvinCZ Approximately 25% more lead per bullet across hundreds of millions of rounds, though. You'd think that'd add up. Especially at the rate machine guns like MG42s burned through them.
*Sips coffee* Dang. This is a NICE gun!
ive been playing pavlov vr and trying this exact gun
I regret not buying a Bren parts kit back in the early 2000s
Love the sweater. Looks very Icelandic.
One thing I've never understood about early support rifles is; how come the charging handles on many of them have such long tails? Like I get having it long enough to act as a dust cover for the handle slot, but some of them seem excessively long
9:49 is the brand new paint/finish scratched from Ian's bullet tip of earlier?
I've been in Brno on vacation as a child. I highly recommend the Go Kart Racetrack!
There is also Yugoslav version. Most loved MG in WW II, used even in Balkan civil wars
Many Balkan weapons are surprisingly awesome.
I was doing airsoft about 10 years ago ,we had one of these on our stand ,seriously it was identical ,sold it about 5 years ago
There is much more Yugoslav ZB 30 on market, than all ZB 26 together.
that would be the ZB30j, which is a modification of the ZB30. All the major parts are NOT interchangeable between the ZB26/ZB30/ZB30J/Bren Family, even though they all look the same. Just about everything was tweaked between versions.
@@joe6167I here in cz saw ZB30J with ZB 26 barel, so it masted be customized?
@Forgotten Weapons Just Curious if there will ever be a video on the Howa Type 64? It looks like a vz. 58 and a FAL had a baby and I wanna know what makes it tick
so Japan is SUPER ANAL about letting its small arms leave the country and they are also not too keen on foreigners. checking their gear out, so its SUPER HARD to get your hands on post ww2 Japanese small arms.. AFAIK hes never done a post ww2 Japanese small arm
Or Type 89, and it’s gas system
Top engineering
Apex has 26 kits and the only thing stopping me is finding a barrel.
very cool
Can you get your hands on Yugoslav ZB30J/M37?
What is perplexing is that during WW II neither Romania or Germany didn't make a 30 round magazine for the ZB-26/30 they used. Even after invading the USSR on June 22, 1941 no 30 round, though the need for increased firepower, especially for the Romanian units involved in the campaign became obvious. The 7.92x57 variant of the Bren used by the Chinese Nationalist Army produced by Inglis Canada also didn't have a 30 round magazine.
Hello George, there have been in fact quite a few 30+ rounds magazines produced in Romania towards the end of the war. They show up a lot in 1944-1945 photos and relics of them are sometimes found in battlefields. Unfortunately i have not seen one in a good enough shape of the spring to test how many rounds fit, but there should be at least 30 if not more.
Probably the last ZB26 guns made were the Spanish variant, the FAO made in the Oviedo Arsenal until the fifties
I just watched a video, and a guy restored on of these.
How did Ian come about the story of a soldier forgetting to lock the barrel down in the test firing?
ian, in romanian, the vowel group "gi" is pronounced phonetically as "dzhi" in english, not how you would typically pronounce it (in english) not to be a grammar nazi but i think you like pronouncing stuff right, therefore, the correction.
it should be pronounced "cudzhir", not "cugheer" to sum the comment up. ty for showing more romanian guns ❤❤❤
yea I know I meant BRNO CZ but all the same great stuff I just wish I could shoot those strange functional and superbly made beautiful firearms.
Why are some flash hiders shaped like a horn vs having a cylinder shape? I notice this on M2 Machine gun as well.
4:30 I think you have them backwards since that gun literally says Cugir.
I bet they laughed so hard when they realized nobody was hurt during the test shooting, I can just imagine the armor went out and picked up the barrel checked the bore for blockage and re-installed it and continued testing!
As a Bren user, I nodded in approval at the addition of the recess for the barrel release catch, as I've certainly managed to bump it a few times just enough to unlock it. I've always noticed so never had the experience of launching the barrel, but it and the stop for the action seem like handy little additions that were omitted on the Bren. Also the lock for the bipod legs seems like it would be very handy in certain circumstances, as I think anyone who's carried a Bren or L4 in the field has at some point caught a bipod foot on something and unintentionally deployed the bipod.
this gun was way way way ahead of it's time.
Came here only 3 mins after upload
Nice
How about the ZB30J model? Any info on that one?
Most excellent.
It’s crazy that I know this is the precursor to the Bren gun and I have only ever fired a gun once 😂😂😂
12:09 there is a repetition of the shot.
I was looking out of those windows, thinking, 'it looks even more miserable there than it does where I live,' and the Ian said he was in Iceland. I feel vindicated
How’d Iceland get a ZB26?
So how on earth did these two guns end up in Iceland of all places?