When Games "Don't Count" | Magic: the Gathering | Commander
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2024
- Why do some moments feel like they invalidate Magic games? Let's explore.
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Not gonna lie, the "a mistake happens, so it doesn't count" is a feeling completely alien to me, even if the mistakes are actually huge.
The ways that I expected to be talked about here were probably pub stomps, or when one or more players struggle to participate because they miss either on lands completely or on their colors.
This^^^
Yeah, that is what usually makes a game feel like it doesn't "count". I want back and forths. To feel like there is an actual struggle and that the person who won did so through some clever plays and smart decisions.
Yeah I don’t get this. I usually just feel dumb or frustrated. It’s kind of just an “oh well” and move on.
@@MatthewOstergren
This is exactly what made me rip apart my first ever EDH deck. My playgroup was pretty optimized, so when I moved and went to a new LGS, I kept stomping everyone and wanted to build decks that could play in a variety of groups through good deck building.
e.g., I have a deck with a really narrow win con (BW Daxos, build up a pillow fort that allows me to get XP counters to make big enchantment creature tokens to end the game), tutors, and the conventional alt win cons (Heliod/Ballista, Approach), which I ignore the latter two at more casual tables unless I get targeted.
I have another really high powered deck (Maelstrom Wanderer) that is aggro dragon tribal with no tutors and relies purely on flipping with cascade, so I can always stall out or get targeted before going off by going “all in” on the plan of ramp to Wanderer and hope for the best.
I’m also working on a “true” lower power deck with Wayta, which I’ll optimize sans tutors and focus on using dinos as removal
I kind of get the feeling he talks about when watching gameplay videos to a degree. I never get that in my own games though. I'd usually just make a mental note to "not count" those moments towards a deck's evaluation. I often realise after a round that I had a line to win. That just tells me my deck is a better deck than I am a player.
I think the biggest thing for me that makes a game "not count anymore" is actually when everyone agrees to a certain type of game like low, medium, high or cedh power level and someone brings a deck that is drastically above the rest of the tables power level or completely shuts a player out of the game when the table agreed not to play stax
Exactly this. When I sit down for lower power and see someone popping off turn 1 with a mana crypt, smothering tithe i just know its a mismatch. Or when someone says “im just proxying STAPLES” and then proceed to drop a rhystic study and a dockside. It just feels completely out of balance. It’s like when an adult jumps into the kiddie pool to almost drown the kids and the parents are all looking around at each other wondering what’s “wrong with him?”
At locals, a random guy sat with my friends and me and told us how he “doesn’t believe in power levels” as he was pulling out his decks. I thought “oh boy here we go.” Game 1, he played Traxos and set up a near impenetrable board of artifact synergy by turn 5. Game 2, he pulls out a fully proxied Tezzeret deck and milled everyone’s decks. I wore a smile at the time but I hope I never play with that guy again.
I once had a random sit down with my playgroup randomly and the only drck he brought was his $15k cEDH deck, complete with Judge Promos and Masterpieces, with the goal of just playing Demonic + Thoracle while playing Tymna and Malcom, and I went "oh you've gotta be kidding me" and brung out my high power Vadrik, Astral Archmage deck. I had no free interaction, no fast mana, I don't even run sol ring, and I managed to win, and the guy picked up his cards, left a passive aggressive remark, and left. Idk why people are like this.
@@TeaGarrison I know this will sound weird, but the moment he says that you can tell him "Ok you don't believe in the power scale. We are going to play precons or decks that are made like precons. Do you have anything like that?" If he continues, the moment you saw the cards he is playing, you can speak to the others and say "I don't want to play with you if you are going to play a deck like that". Sounds cruel, but is the best you can do with people like that
I agree except for cEDH. If you play cEDH everything goes and there is no powerlevel. Each deck should be optimised and you have to face whatever I bring to the table.
The only time I thought a game didn’t count was when a player won with a combo, we all shuffled up our cards then realized that that player couldn’t have actually comboed off but it was too late to reset the board
The only "this doesn't count" moments I have are when the LGS is about to close, and everyone needs to rush the rest of the game. Everyone's gameplay changes, so usually everyone agrees "that game/win has an asterisk"
a game “not counting” for me is when my deck is unable to pursue its goals in a game (for example someone playing cEDH in a casual pod, or mana screw via very bad luck). When my reasons for winning/losing is not because I misplayed but rather an extreme circumstance out of my control, I do not count it as a strike against my deck. If my casual deck loses to an infinite combo on turn 4 I’m not going to go retune my deck, I just brought a knife to a gunfight. Magic is a game of extreme variance and luck, so when a game strays too far from the “average” (whether by chance or deliberately), it is worth discounting it not because you or your deck is bad, but because sometimes you can do everything perfect and never stood a chance. Happened to me the other day and got me thinking about it a lot so this video is timely :)
Definitely agree with you on this!
When I finish for the night, my next day is usually spent mulling over what I could have done prior to the games to make things 'better'.
I go over what 'better' means for th deck - does it feel too inconsistent? Too linear? Do I have insufficient mana, or too much? Do I like the strategy, or does it leave me with a bad taste considering the style of the other players I'm likely to play against with it?
But I also have to discount some games. If 99% of the time my mana base runs like a dream, but one game I start with just 2 Plains, the only ramp being Rampant Growth, and then proceed to not draw any Lands for 5 turns... That game doesn't count when I go to evaluate what changes to make to the deck.
The issue is that I was a fucking idiot and kept a terrible hand; I accepted 2 Lands and didn't even notice that I was colour screwed. I can't draw any meaningful conclusions from the way the deck played there because I set it up to fail in piloting it.
The most recent example for me of a "non-game" was in a casual pod in Magic Con Vegas. There was a guy playing Prosper and was stuck on two lands for about 4 turns. We left him alone as to not bully him, then drops his third land and says "i can win here" then demonstrated a combo that would have won with dockside and Prosper doing gross things. After showing how he could have won he then says "but I wont do that, oops" and so the rest of the game just felt like borrow time in a way. He had already won, but realized that at this casual pod that was pretty Bm so just "didn't" win instead
Thats super wierd to do but it teaches a valueable lesson. If someone is open and there is no downside for you then just attack him. Your chances of winning rise and someone that is mana screwed won't win anyway. The game gets faster and the person that is Out can play another game.
In my experience the player who is left alone because they start slow often wins anyways. They build up cards in hand expending nothing while everyone else picks apart each other. I have a few targets like Azorius, simic and dimir I’ll punch if they start slow because I know usually the game will favor them the longer it goes. Or in the prosper example I might just punch cuz well it’s prosper.
Sometimes there's that, sometimes someone combos off quick and clean and then it's like Ok, let's play for second and the remainder of the game goes on without them.
I usually only have this when my own deck draws so perfectly that it way outperforms what it's normally capable of. Then I didn't earn that win, my deck won despite me and not because of me.
Weirdly enough I have no problem with the opposite when a deck of mine just doesn't perform at all.
My opponents can do whatever they want within the rules though.
There were also super rare cases when we grossly missplayed a card or mechanic to a game warping decree. But that happened more a decade ago when the general rule knowledge in my playgroup was less advanced and a little after a game we realized "yup that was garbage".
Yeah I really feel like I didn't earn a win or that game didn't count when my deck takes off without me. I also feel the same when my one or more of my opponents is left at the starting line. I think the game is best when everyones deck at least gets to attempt to do the thing. I understand there is a lot of variance and your deck might try to do the thing but the other people at the board say no. It's a lot less frustrating when the reason you couldn't do anything was because of your opponents and not your deck
Every game counts. If there is a misplay, that is a learning opportunity and I think that counts for something. I don't think saying the game counts means it's life or death, I just think every game is a great learning opportunity.
Very based take.
I agree, it only doesnt not count when the store kicks you out on closing time.
The times I feel like a game "doesn't count" is when someone misrepresents the power level of their deck and pubstomps the rest of the table. Happened to me in a game at my LGS this week and the three players who lost the game agreed they'd all lost and kept playing on after that because we basically didn't play a game.
Flood/screw also leads to this feeling
LOL definitely wasn’t subscribed as a long time viewer. I see all of them so I never even thought about.
I spend my Friday afternoons finishing grading from the previous week and prepping for the following week listening to the podcast.
Subscribed and hit the bell. Thank you guys for all you do!
I think this is part of the greater discussion, "Sportsmanship in Magic" which is a huge conversation, so suffice to say for now; we need to cultivate more of it.
Games of commander with no misplays or errors don’t count.
Your best episode yet. The game is about enjoying good times with friends. The more you can amke sure everyone is having a good time, the "better player" you become. In commander.
Mistakes on camera correctly represent games in real life. Art is imitating life. Carry on!
Thank you Joey for figuring out what that icky feeling was. I have fixed the issue and am now subscribed
I don't think I've ever had that feeling, but I get where it comes from.
I love these short videos. Keep doing them.
Good and important message, thank you❤️
I sometimes say "called on account of luck" ie I start with the only 3 lands I will ever have
I played my Drana/Limvala semi-stax list this last Saturday and had three lands in my opening hand and didnt get a fourth til like turn 10. First time it ever happened.
I’ve had a game where three players drew only lands for the first 5 or 6 turns. Someone played Windfall out of pity and we managed to have a fun game after that.
@@blindcommander I once went 26 turns without drawing a 3rd land (ironically people milled me a few times during that game and kept hitting lands).
If you’re wondering why I wasn’t dead long before that, my opponents thought it was funny and wanted to see how long the streak would run.
@@Dragon_Fyre
OMG, that sounds like pure misery. Yet another reason why mill sucks. My sympathies. 😔
@@blindcommander After a while, it just becomes a game of its own to see how long you can defy all statistical probability.
The biggest "this game doesn't count" moments are usually when I (or someone else at the table) draws every synergy and ramp piece and ways to protect them in the exactly right order so that they're miles ahead in the game while people don't even have the mana to try and stop them. The games that start with Land -> Sol Ring -> Arcane Signet -> Mana Dork on turn 1.
Like I once had a game where someone dropped that line on their first turn and their second turn they dropped Jin-Gitaxias and Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant in the graveyard and brought them back with recursion.
Another very specific example is when someone used Radiant Performer on someone elses Vindicate destroying the entire board on turn 5. I ended up "winning", because I was the only one with lands in hand and topdecked a mana rock so I was the only one who could actually play.
Last one is if you play at vastly different power levels. Like when I sat down with a precon and someone else brought out their Zur the Enchanter Stax deck.
I usually get this “ick” feeling when I win a game. No way my bad deck was able to pull a win
i feel that, especially when you luck into a strong sol ring start and just snowball the win
Sometimes a slow or janky deck will win a game because all the removal got used up on everyone else before your board state finally did something useful and you manage to pull out a win from a situation that you didn't seem a threat. Totally valid and honestly fun to be part of a game like this.
Can't relate. Sounds akin to the "opptimizing the fun out of the game" phenomenon.
Maybe if I were testing for a decks viability or how it performs, it would matter as the test results are now compromised.
But no, I clicked on this vid thinking the Title was about the problem of "Non-games" where either one player has bricked and isnt able to participate, or another player has effectively won the game long before it actually ends.
my primary pod is a 3 player pod!
I often watch gameplay to get a feeling what certain commander is capable of. When a game warping mistake happens, it doesn't count because I know this isn't a typical gameplay of that commander/strategy and I still need to go find more gameplay to watch xD
This was a good one Joey
I love these sitdown discussioñ videos. Keep uploading them please 🎉
Well put
I've had that feeling pretty much only when an opponent has conceded early. Turning a 4 player game into a 3 player game in the middle of the game throws me off so much that I don't want to play that game anymore. I played a game where a player's goal was to mess with people and play winter orb (this story in not going where you think it's going). The player succeeded, the table was locked down and probably would have gone another 10 turns or something. I was settling into the long haul, coming up with solutions and looking forward to beating the odds and overcoming this stax, but instead, after a turn rotation, the stax player said he had his fun and scooped, letting the other players get back into the game. I immediately felt like the game I was expecting was taken away, even if that game wasn't necessarily going to be the game most people wanted, it was still the game we had.
1 minute in and I can def say that I've felt that exact same feeling many times watching gameplay
Scooping. I detest scooping for anything outside of an emergency situation.
I find that the house rule to only allow concessions at sorcery speed stops a lot of problems from happening.
@@Jwhiz24or maybe "if somebody concedes, they are still treated as present and doing nothing until the end of the turn"... at least as much as you can simulate that on paper
Maybe I'm an outlier on this one, but for me the only ones that I've said "that doesn't count" is when it's a 1v1 and someone scoops in like the first 4 turns because their hand didn't come together.
I've definitely had several games where, in retrospect, we misunderstood some important rule interaction. And since I'm the one in my usual pod most familiar with the rules, I take a bit more responsibility for that. But those I don't feel like invalidate the game? Those feel more like "well, crap. I need to go apologize and make sure we all understand the actual rule now."
Two things: you're rockin that shirt and loved the segue to subscribe.
I clicked Subscribe, because I watch the videos anyway, and I felt a lot better! My last game with an inconclusive end was when the store was closing up. My ride had arrived and I wasn't interested in playing out the last few possible game actions, so I scooped. One player definitely wanted to continue, another scooped and said "What a draw!" which really upset the one who wanted to continue. He was adamant that it was NOT a draw.
I sometimes have a bad feeling when starting with only three players in some of my decks, as they function better with more players due to goad or steal effects. Additionally, I encounter games where a player simply gives up just to deny me or another player certain advantages, such as card draw, treasure, etc. It feels petty and somewhat undignified.
Great insight. I feel like watching games when players are clearly having a bad time whether it be not casting their spells or just not able to play in any capacity takes me out of the game a bit. Sometimes people ham it up but I can’t tell sometimes
Joey I've done the same thing in clicking away, definitely a thing to keep in check.
What helped to me for a accepting others and my own gameplay mistakes or misjudgments is fighting games. Like in magic, there is a lot to look for in fighting game genre during gameplay, and optimal plays can be easily read by your opponent and countered accordingly. Your opponent in MTG could play the way you cannot see because you don't have information and experience they have. Or they could focus on a thing that you didn't take account for.
Yeah I understand the feeling, if a crucial trigger is missed for turns it can be pretty impactful to the mood. I kind of thought the video was going to be about people that just don't count games if they are not leading out of ego.
never really thought about this. For me it's only when someone
I just played a pod where a guy had to up and leave. He finished his turn, destroyed the most problematic thing he could (my Mesmeric Orb!!!) and then scooped up his stuff and left. Nobody at the table complained, I guess we all figured it was just as if he were killed and stabbed back while death was on the stack?
The only game I have played where we felt it "didn't count" were things like a guy pulled out a 100% home-brewed deck that was busted or we had a mechanic wrong for several turns. The first one was not fun. but the second was a good time. It's not like we're playing for money here!
I think this comes from a detail oriented place that values the integrity of the game you’re playing or viewing. If you’re choosing to engage with commander in a casual way, all you need to understand is people get enjoyment from different ways of playing in a parasocial sense. I think when you click on a video, you should ask yourself if you expect the video to be a tightly played match or to be an entertaining match. If I’m watching the professor (sorry buddy) I’m never looking for mistakes because they will pop up. Sometimes it’s fair to expect both depending on the creator. I think most of us try our best to operate the game fairly and to the best of our understanding in the moment, especially if it’s being filmed and produced.
I watch gameplay for the banter and the learning i can gain
I've actually brought a white board to a table for my own triggers to help keep track of it lol
This is very a coincidental video for me! Last week i had 3 "wins" and i left feeling like none of them should count. In one game my partner (special game mode) exploded and quickly took over the game while i basically did nothing. In another game 2 players board wiped constantly and slowed the game to a crawl. While i was slowed it didnt really stop me and i continued to accrue value and lands. In the end each opponent ended up conceding to my very non lethal or very threatening board state because they had all run out of gas. The 3rd "didnt count" win was a game that went long with myself and 3 other players all on the verge of closing out the game. I used everything and tapped out fully both creatures and lands to stop a thoracle combo. 4th player ends up sparing my life, even choosing to full tap his creatures rather then allow them to attack (they were all goaded). He passed to me and i let him know he should've killed me. I made a surprise play that pretty much ended the game right then. He handed me the game by showing mercy and it didnt feel like a win at all.
I definitely wasn't thinking of that type of game when I think of games that "Don't Count". The closest experience I have is invalidating a win in my own head when I realize after the fact that I made a rules mistake. For me games that don't count are the ones that last
Three player pods feel very different in my group, and we have all agreed to mostly do 4+ players for Commander.
One thing that makes games feel like "they dont count" for me would be when people use a ton of proxies of expensive cards. My friend group just started magic as a way to avoid the pricy format of another game we play. We agreed to keep it more or less low powered and budget. At times a person in the group will come in with a proxy full deck he claimed is cheap bc he printed it out and then destroys us in five turns. It dosnt feel like we're testing our deckbuilding in this new game, and instead feels like we're right back where we were with the other game. He's agreed to not use that deck as much but those games are certainly "nongames" in my head.
For me, the only thing that really makes me feel like a game doesn’t count is if I or some else gets so badly mana screwed or flooded that they really can’t do anything in a game. But I find a lot of the time having the “mulligan until you have a playable opener” fixes that. Occasionally people will abuse this but the vast majority don’t.
Idk for me now its about just the experience playing with friends. At the end of the day is just did we have fun? Yeah, then that is ok. I just pay attention to my plays and see my miscues. I make my necessary adjustments to improve my play correctly, but I like to play a variety of decks. You are not going to play every card in your deck perfectly. It is easier to come back to and adjust your mistakes for next time over delaying a casual format game to socialize and have fun with friends. Great segment video got me to think about this.
My feeling towards this has changed since I started tracking my own games. The games that 'dont' count to me are the ones that would change my decision making process in a significant way. 3 player and 5 player games are fine. But modes like two headed giant or planechase, while still fun, I don't count them towards the data. The only game I've played that was a genuine EDH game was one where there was a pregame power level miscommunication, and someone had not one but two methods for infinite mana by turn 4. The rest of us had maybe one mana rock and a lone other artifact or creature.
A game is a game weather it "counts" or not is irrelevant. I play win or loose its on to the next game.
The other question is what are we counting towards?
Do we rate our decks based on?
My group will give an asterisk when large enough miss plays would truly effect the outcomes but we don’t invalidate the lesson of what was wrong and the only games that don’t count are the ones that you don’t play.
We call "doesn't count" asterisking the game in our play group and we think its funny to call the plays out. I'm pretty sure almost all of our games have at least "one asterisk on the win". We play at a bar so the games are almost always forgotten about by the end of the night but the good company and conversation is far more memorable.
I think my worst "doesn't count" moments are games where a sudden combo happens, or even like Oh, the big play is just unexpected Torment of Hailfire. Just takes the wind out of a game and feels like I wasted the last hour and a half. I think my worst night was where I just wanted to play lower power, possibly a precon one night and just all of the games had something steamrollng out of control early to the point I had no impact. Just ended up leaving the night early and dejected. I had spent a lot of time and energy and no fun was had at all that day. :(
I get that it doesnt count feeling explicitly regarding my gameplay, when i win but realize too late that i messed up a sequence or trigger and did something i should'nt have, miscounted mana and cast an extra spell, or misinterpted the ruling that cost someone else the game. Also, im a father of three, and my play group has two other groups of parents. When a game goes really long and it gets crazy late, we call the game, we have a lot of games where we just have to "call it" and those certainly dont count.
I felt a lot of this when I used to watch the scg commander vs series. When I reflected on it, it wasn't the occasional confusion about rules or missed triggers, but that Stephen Green is just the type of player I would never want to sit down and play a game of magic with.
I felt so insulted every time the other players let Stephen backstab them or do something chaotic with no repercussions. Like, how does he keep getting away with this?
But when you look at the comments, it's full of people who love that. People who are excited to see those things. So, it turned out I was the problem. They're entertainers, and I wasn't the intended audience.
My 2 reliable friends are going to be disappointed when they hear 3 player games don't count XD
I have definitively had that instinct to click off of a gameplay video when some (to me) egregious rules error occurs. It's interesting to hear that this happens to other people, and I think I will need to take some time to examine the causes of that feeling in myself. As far as "doesn't count games go", one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone has a visible win, and they just don't win because "they want to be nice". If you're holding back a game winning card in your hand to let the other players actually play more, fine. But when you have a win on board where I can see it, and you choose to not take it, it just feels patronizing.
My friends and I have begun using the "asterix" rule. Where basically any time in any game where we realize that we missed something and have progressed beyond the ability to rewind the game state we just say "If X wins it's got an * by it" as a joking way for everyone to acknowledge that something happened that created a game state that shouldn't have happened but you play it out because it's just a game. Based on the whole steroid era/Barry Bonds getting the home run record but with an * denoting it was a tainted record/win.
When I sit down to play commander I have some expectations on what a commander game is. I want every player to get a chance to play and I want the game to progress far enough (mana, turns, neat things) that we get to differentiate it from a multiplayer game of standard or modern. When a game doesn't feel like I got to play commander, then it does not count as a commander game to me for the purpose of my objective to play commander that night.
This is one of the reasons I am heavily biased towards playing group hug and prefer 5-6 power level. Even a single Veteran Explorer greatly reduces the chance of someone not getting to play the game, and it increases the chance that everyone will get to play commander instead of the game ending before we get to enough resources to differentiate it from the fast 60 card competitive formats.
that joke in the open was actually funny enough i did sub for it, i mean he had me pinned, i watch their video religiously yet havent subbed? like what was i doing?
Always like always comment. Always subscribed.
For me, the games that "don't count" are specifically when I'm playing a new deck and someone else wants to jam group hug or chaos. Not that I don't enjoy those games or don't consider them Magic, but they do end up mucking a bit with first impressions with the capabilities of my deck. Is my curve really high? Does it have a good amount of draw? Hard to tell when you're getting twenty treasures a turn or getting free stuff off Possibility Storm or the like!
so once, i played turn 2 sol ring > arcane signet > cold steel heart, into turn 3 consecrated sphinx (Alandra, Sky Dreamer as my commander), one player felt it was game over and just scooped. Does a perceived unsurmountable advantage makes a game not count?
personally i view these more as the factor between i lost the game (my actions like misplays took the win chance) and my opponent won the game (they properly punished the misplays)
Both of which are still separate from whether or not I consider the game to be a win (try to get everybody to have fun).
the only ones i don't consider to count are the non-games (ex any player getting mana scew)
I try to learn from it..
I don’t usually comment, but I wanted to take a moment to celebrate Joey and EDHRECast for the awesome content they produce, specifically their willingness to talk about, and discuss the social and emotional side of the game that is often overlooked. Well done, I salute you. 🫡
The only times I get sort of miffed is when there's poor threat assessment. Sure, kill off my mana dork when we're both facing down a 10/10 flyer with double strike .. ? Sometimes, I actually prefer 3 player games cause the turn cycles are usually faster
Nice subscription segue. 😹
Main time I feel like the game "didn't count" is when it ends in a two card infinite combo (Consultation/Thoracle for example). Can be playing an engaging, back-and-forth game and then someone drops that and I'm always left going, "so what was the point of the rest of the game when the outcome was decided by playing two cards that unless I had counter magic, I have no way to interact with?" So anticlimactic.
I mean... none of it "counts". It's a for fun format. This is a really interesting video and it's nice to hear your thought process investigated so thoroughly, but I can't relate to any of it at all.
There are only reason that I feel like a game doesn’t “count”
Like when the commander is misplayed to the point of it objectively played wrong (I use to play Satoura Umezawa without ever using the second ability that’s triggered by activating his first ability of giving everyone ninjutsu)
I've had a number of games where someone's wheels, and gives the win to a smothering tithe on the board. And I get so salty.
Last week, I did it w/ a wheel of misfortune. Smothering tithe player and I got to wheel, the other player had to avoid wheeling due to the tithe. And he was reasonably salty.
At the end of the game, I pointed out that he still won regardless, and that it was a calculated decision because he HAD to not wheel. And was likely posed for a takeover anyhow.
Not everything is what it seems.
Hello! Could you please please please make a Jarad Lich King deck? I know you love graveyard decks and i'm trying to build around jarad currently... if you see this and decide to do it thanks♥️
I find the “doesn’t count” feeling to be pervasive to playing MTG arena.
I tend to commonly dismiss losses as not actual losses when “dealt out” (where you just repeatedly miss land drops or where it has pre-selected a deck targeted to win versus yours) or when clearly playing against a Pay to Win opponent (where your opponent has clearly not built a deck from rewards of play but rather simply dropping $$$$ on the game to buy a custom meta deck). They tend to be mostly mythics and rares except for a few key synergy pieces, have all the top dual lands etc.
A mediocre movie once taught me that a win doesn't count if the opponent doesn't really think they've lost.
The only games I've played that didn't count are ones where somebody qas blatantly playing a banned card without telling the group, then denying that it was banned after playing it then dominating through that banned card.
I don't record games or wins anymore, as it made things unfun for the group and myself as I was getting to competitive with that. So it doesn't matter "if it counts". I don't like pentagram with 5 people as much, but big fan of 3 pod games as they go a bit quicker
Last FNM. I picked one of my stronger decks, Dragonlord Ojutai, knowing that one of my opponents has a very fast Heliod/walking balasta combo deck. The other players were Ur-Dragon and 5 colour Jodah so no slouches themselves but not exactly fast. The combo player got mana screwed even with mana vault and mana crypt in play at some points in the game. I turn 1 sol ring, turn 2 Bounce land got my commander into play turn 3, then with Teferi, who slows the sunset turn 4 for maximum value. I killed and countered everything my opponents did for the rest of the game eventually ultimating teferi without any poliferate and beating them all to death with my dragonlord. holy smokes god draw and I didn't have to be terrified of the combo deck the whole game.
Recently had a game where one player was just tutor after tutor into infinite mana into infinite turns by turn 4 or 5. And it was supposed to be a casual game. It felt like such a non-game to the point that while he was just tutoring all the time the rest of us were just talking about random stuff with people not even in the game. And then it was just "I win now" and everyone was just okay sure, didn't care, just packed up.
There are so many thing going on in a single game of commander that taking everything to serious or discounting the game because a missed trigger or miscommunication of damge would lead to many games "not counting". Players should definitely go into a game expecting some things to be missed. I have been playing for 20+ years and still miss things. I generally dont allow myself to take things back in a game I feel that it helps me remeber those mistake more for next time. It will also get worse as magic cards get more and more text, back sides, no reminder text, and so on. Just remember to shuffle up have fun trying to win and hanging out with your buds.
Most of my commander games have been me and my two brothers. I think I have played more three player commander games than I have 4. Always open to ideas to help balance it but it’s def not a mood killer for me
Every Game count's as long as everbody had fun
Eh. I know what you mean, but it just doesn’t bother me personally. The fact is, no game ‘counts’ anyway. If you dont keep track it moot. Rules wise, i play with a fairly new group other than myself. I didnt tell a guy about commander tax for like three games cuz his commander was hilarious. I rarely play with 4 players, mostly 1v1 with my wife and sometimes we get a friend over for 3, and if anyone else comes they bring more and we end up with 5-6.
I write down the results every game I play except when the players are just testing or experimenting things, mostly bc the idea is to discuss what we are playing, strategies, etc, what we would call a kind of "training", where we disregard alot of rules to learn and try new things.
most of my games are three players, which makes tracking stats interesting
i actually just finished a 3 player game that felt like.. it didnt count. Not only because of it being a pod of 3, which made me (an agro player) win too easily, but also cause i asked for a backsies because i thought goad just meant i had to attack (brain freeze) and when i realized i had to attack into a suicide, i requested to switch the creature i had cast before attacking to one that would allow me to at least draw a card from my loss (cavileno). It was allowed. i apologized. but still felt i should have owned my mistake. ups
Bullshit wins typically make the game feel like it doesn’t count. A turn two Sneak Attack Blightsteel is one such example.
Hooray for different rules enforcement levels! Even the highest level of competitive play has allowences for mistakes.
Take a deep breath and remember we're not playing Judge's Tower.
I think rules mistakes are part of Magic. Even in tournament play, the judge will only intervene when a player summons them. If a rules mistake doesn't get corrected before the game ends, then it just becomes part of the game that was played.
Pertaining to CZcams specifically, I don't enjoy watching a lot of live commander games with little editing. I tend to doze off a lot watching these videos lmao. Maybe it's not just me, I'm curious to see what others think
Joey I feel like you asking this question as a result of tracking your games over the last year plus lol.
1 of my favourite ganes ive ever played was one where i shouldve won but lose spectacularly due to my own arrogance. N watching that army of animated Forests lead by Liege of the Tangle chew away at my 418 life after i took too long trying to kill my own wellwhishers so i go gain just that last 2 life n win with 420 life.
I am always against 3 player commander unless we physically cannot find a 4th. 3 player commander always boils down to the exact same scenarios:
2 players fight eachother, one guy either kingmakes those 2 or comes out of the woodwork to win cause the other 2 were fighting. Or, its archenemy 1v2.
I didnt sign up for archenemy, I signed up for commander, and that is a 4 player game.
I really though the premise of this video was going to be way different. Like you sit down with your graveyard deck and an opponent plays rest in peace turn 1 and you don't participate in the game at all.
theres rules for when mistakes happen and you just let it go if you dont catch it in a cycle or if it was a 'may' ability its just your fault :D
On the subject of King making I have to his one friend who has a vendetta against me and feels they won if they take me out of the game no matter what the cost. That's resulted in me being way less interested in playing with them.
I've been in situations where someone could've and probably should've taken me out of the game, and then I proceeded to win from there. Those wins do feel a little "tainted" to me.
Everytime mtgo crashes due to max triggers is a legitimate doesn't count moment.
For me, I never really feel the "doesnt count" even for rules confusion or player decisions. Maybe this comes from playing a lot of board games casually. EDH is my casual format so none of those things really bother me. Personally I just dont have any feeling about some games "counting". They are all just games and opportunities to have fun.
The closest things that bring me to the "doesnt count" feeling are stuck on low amounts of mana (3 and below. If you are stuck at 4-6 and complain, I feel like that is more obviously a deck building issue). And more commonly, turn 1 sol ring starts. I guess I am just a huge fan of getting rid of sol ring even if I know its not going to happen.
I thought this was going to be about games where someone wins early, so the other three decide to carry on amongst themselves, lol. Happened to me at MagicCon this past weekend…