@@ThePessimist -- Transatlantic, High Church accent (dialect). Very idiosyncratic mannerisms -- not feminine. I've been binge-watching his Firing Line - starting in 1966. Mid 70s now. Slouching, grimacing, but not a limp wrist to be seen. Family man of irreproachable character. We can't know anyone's secret yearnings, because they are secret.
Except conservatism isn't intellectual, it's a ideology that keeps society and humankind at what ever moment its in and denies progress. Conservatism will be a good thing when we have a world that has no money,class,poverty and bigotry. You could throw in other things as well but at that time will keeping things the same be a good thing.
I had a headmaster who was even more patrician . Maybe that’s why I don’t seem to mind. They are so sharp and articulate though ,so what does it matter if they have posh accents? Only philistines wouldn’t appreciate these guys.
Well that's probably because you're clearly cut from the same cloth haha but it's not just the accent, to most people the way you and these two speak sounds pretentious, and some people who can't understand might even think that you're simply speaking that way to assert a sense of superiority. Especially in your case since this video is over 50 years old, and you still manage to sound even more dated. Not a personal attack, I can appreciate eloquence, but to a degree I understand why some people see it as a flex.
Buckley would concede in 1999 that the Vietnam War was a mistake, when Peter Robinson of the Hoover Institution called him and Christopher Hitchens on, to debate the 1960s. A brilliant conversation; it's available on CZcams. But, apparently, Buckley had reservations about the Vietnam War even in the 1960s, although he never aired them publicly. I am unable to find that article; it was a NYT article by Sam Tanenhaus on the death of Gore Vidal.
Vidal just clobbered Buckley in this debate. He (Buckley) rarely comes out ahead in debate if matched against a serious intellect, and could be thrown off and upset rather easily. Baldwin wiped the floor with him at Oxford, as did Noam Chomsky, and I loved every minute of it.
Buckley was always on the wrong fucking side of history. FOR the Vietnam war, AGAINST the Civil Rights Act, AGAINST equal rights for women….all totally bankrupt positions to take.
Only of you prioritize Gores intentionally "obnoxious, emotionally driven, dribble" over Buckleys "conservative, sound logic" trying to be heard over Gores obnoxious noise!
Yep, lot's of them in the rich states North of the tri-state area, like Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire etc. Most of them hardly ever leave their bubble, which outside of those states is usually resorts, country clubs, that sorta thing.
@Leo 007 oh really, let's think which nation fell apart?....which nation gave up territory? Which nation got stared down at every turn? Oh that's right!..your beloved USSR. I guess you're unhappy they lost. Too bad. That's OK, China's next
We as the people won nothing. The plutocrats won China's vast slave labor, USSR fell apart into its own constituent nations some under continuous dictatorships others into plutocratic republics and some with genuine democratic republics; almost all suffered a period of great economic collapse only likened to the great depression of the 1929 that was spread from the US to Europe; and some fell apart into civil war and fractured further into smaller divisions like Yugoslavia or Albania. Additionally, the owners of our nation became more brazen with their world empire, thinking of themselves as the emperors of the old ancient Roman Empire; greed is good and no economic planning, unless of course, it lines robber baron's pockets, turning instead to deficits, feigning when the counter political party is in power to despise deficit spending, but knowing very well deficit spending is a means to turn the taxes of the wealthiest into a loan, treasury bonds and the such mostly only purchased by such parasites, have successfully made their taxes a loan to be paid back with interest. While the rest of the labor population compete as did the ancient Roman labor population with the slaves of conquest; many a free Roman citizen under great debt and severe competition literally sold themselves into slavery; have most of the tax burden particularly in terms of disposable income to pay such taxes and those bonds with interest back to the wealthiest who can and tend to be the primary if not only purchasers of such bonds. A tax that is a loan paid back in interest to the wealthiest. And their true taxes lower, and if they truly feel like paying nothing, an offshore bank account will do. While the state of the economic system is so shit with the competitiveness of dictatorships and tyrannized labor that is tantamount to slavery as well as state owned subsidized businesses of the same nations that can sell at a loss Ad infinitum until there is no industry that is capable of competing domestically; and often the domestic so called captains and master's of the universe plutocrats transplant their factories to these places directly with additional subsidies by these governments for the purpose of pacifying their people through Arbeit Macht Frei servitude; keep'em busy keeps'em quiet; even if they don't get shit for that work; they're too busy slaving away to put up any sort of protest. This domestic demand destruction then causes the overall domestic economy to turn horribly bad, requiring more and more consumer borrowing just to get basic goods and longer and longer hours, in a desperate attempt to keep things looking bright and keep the borrowing train coming, the Federal Reserve lowers interest rates to near 0% causing rampant speculation among stocks... which is mostly benign since most citizens don't really own any or very many to mean anything; but the worst is the feudalistic nature of real-estate speculation that had driven home appraisals causing un-affordable property taxes, insurance premiums, housing prices, and rental prices to become unsustainable in ratio to wages/salaries. So not only do the oligarchs suck the tit of tyrants of far off lands for their slave labor and other subsidies, turned their portion of taxes into loans repaid with interest, but have also become feudal lords with their monopolies on real-estate. There were many times such oligarchs became so brazen. And it never ended well when they did. Not for them or anyone. So whether we won any of these so called wars doesn't matters one ounce. The fact is, we the people are being ruined by the same robber barons that fucked the people during the 1800's and early 1900's. The charade via jingoism must end. The level of love for one's nation and people isn't demonstrated by the victory or failure of mass murder that we call war, or other frivolity, but by the ideas and putting forth the means and methods and plannings that people can actually ALL prosper thereby. We were all played. We become winners when we all realize this.
@@newt0830 you sound just like Buckley, in defense of anything you deem as American with no capacity for analyzing things apart from your American bubble
These were upper class white men in the 60's what do you expect the world wasn't what it is now don't bring Political correctness into the picture it's the least intelligent lens to view the past by.
I don't like the comments here - they discuss the politeness of the discourse. One of these men is arguing for mass murder of American young men - the Vietnam war would go on for seven more years and thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese would die. And all for nothing. Zero. Zilch. Just pointless death. EFF POLITENESS.
The huge difference between these two is that Buckley is largely speaking extemporaneously while Vidal scripted, rehearsed and memorized most of his "spontaneous" wit. Buckley was the real deal, Vidal was a poser.
Have to agree. I never thought Vidal could handle Buckley in any of these encounters. The closer you watch them, the less impressive Vidal becomes. Buckley was just too sharp.
@@lumo9132 It’s actually well documented that Vidal literally spent weeks preparing his bon mots and “spontaneous” comments. I believe there’s even a documentary that was made about it. Vidal was clever but was not a spontaneous wit in the same class as Buckley.
"Vidal rehearsed his lines" U mean to tell me Buckley is so predictable u can have a pretend debate with urself and accurately predict how it can go and it's Buckley whom we should look at with respect? Wow.
It's like watching an old married couple. The calibre of debate was certainly large in those days.
Yep and it was in fact calibre then
I love how neither one loses their train of thought during all of what's going on. gestures, insults. etc.
Man, these guys REALLY hated each other.
Haha you gotta love their back and forth jabs.
They were best friends
@@jordancanter1958 Hardly. Is that a serious statement? They loathed each other and sued each other. More than once.
@@jordancanter1958 Best of enemies
neither of them stated anything as clearly true during this debate as you in one sentence.
I love watching these two patrician queens go at it.
"Patrician queens", lol. That's perfect.
Ignorant and libelous to call Buckley a queen.
@@jhaychjh He manages to seem more gay than Vidal.
@@ThePessimist -- Transatlantic, High Church accent (dialect). Very idiosyncratic mannerisms -- not feminine. I've been binge-watching his Firing Line - starting in 1966. Mid 70s now. Slouching, grimacing, but not a limp wrist to be seen. Family man of irreproachable character. We can't know anyone's secret yearnings, because they are secret.
@@jhaychjh I don't hate the guy...he was a great intellectual.
Those 2 are great. Better what we have now
Don't stick your tongue out bill!
LoL
Everytime these two got together, It was always an intellectual "Rumble in the Jungle"
Except conservatism isn't intellectual, it's a ideology that keeps society and humankind at what ever moment its in and denies progress. Conservatism will be a good thing when we have a world that has no money,class,poverty and bigotry. You could throw in other things as well but at that time will keeping things the same be a good thing.
@@weightlifting_socialist DUMBEST comment Ive read in a while! 🤢🤢🤢
Long live buckley and vidals legacy
Two brilliant orators.
I had a headmaster who was even more patrician . Maybe that’s why I don’t seem to mind. They are so sharp and articulate though ,so what does it matter if they have posh accents? Only philistines wouldn’t appreciate these guys.
Exactly; I can understand anti-elitism to a degree, but not anti-eloquence, anti-articulateness and anti-upper class accent sentiments.
Well that's probably because you're clearly cut from the same cloth haha but it's not just the accent, to most people the way you and these two speak sounds pretentious, and some people who can't understand might even think that you're simply speaking that way to assert a sense of superiority. Especially in your case since this video is over 50 years old, and you still manage to sound even more dated. Not a personal attack, I can appreciate eloquence, but to a degree I understand why some people see it as a flex.
"Don't stick your tongue out Bill, keep it in your cheeks where it belongs"
He didn't say that
10:10 Howard Smith was totally enjoying it.
Buckley's constantly eye googling and licking his teeth
2:48 Was that a signal for a new round to begin in this verbal boxing match? ;D
Those Exeter wolf smiles
Dynamism
WOW-- 5:00-- calls it.
Surely the fact he said it in 1968 and it didn’t happen shows it isn’t true if anything?
I miss the days when both sides appealed to the middle in some way
It's a shame the middle doesn't exist anymore. It does, but each side accuses it of being Right or Left now, due to absolute disingenuous talk.
“There’s a curious coincidence about the fact that it’s [the world’s] always going to dogs because we don’t do what they tell us to do.”
And the verdict of history comes in for Vidal.
Buckley would concede in 1999 that the Vietnam War was a mistake, when Peter Robinson of the Hoover Institution called him and Christopher Hitchens on, to debate the 1960s. A brilliant conversation; it's available on CZcams.
But, apparently, Buckley had reservations about the Vietnam War even in the 1960s, although he never aired them publicly. I am unable to find that article; it was a NYT article by Sam Tanenhaus on the death of Gore Vidal.
No cards, no "talkng points". Excellent debate. Oh, wait, the Democrat has a big clipboard of notes he looks at before talking...
What do you think that is in the Republicans lap?
@@purelite04 ignore this idiot .
Always gotta be them Democrats, aye Hillbilly?
Anybody learn something from them arguing?
Expatriate
Vidal just clobbered Buckley in this debate. He (Buckley) rarely comes out ahead in debate if matched against a serious intellect, and could be thrown off and upset rather easily. Baldwin wiped the floor with him at Oxford, as did Noam Chomsky, and I loved every minute of it.
Buckley was always on the wrong fucking side of history. FOR the Vietnam war, AGAINST the Civil Rights Act, AGAINST equal rights for women….all totally bankrupt positions to take.
Only of you prioritize Gores intentionally "obnoxious, emotionally driven, dribble" over Buckleys "conservative, sound logic" trying to be heard over Gores obnoxious noise!
Ah, Buckley in seersucker. Fabulous.
I concur 👏👏👏👏👏
Oh, those Prep/WASP accents! Does ANYONE speak that way today?
Yep, lot's of them in the rich states North of the tri-state area, like Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire etc. Most of them hardly ever leave their bubble, which outside of those states is usually resorts, country clubs, that sorta thing.
we lost the Vietnam War..but won the Cold War....i'll take that exchange
@Leo 007 oh really, let's think which nation fell apart?....which nation gave up territory?
Which nation got stared down at every turn? Oh that's right!..your beloved USSR. I guess you're unhappy they lost. Too bad. That's OK, China's next
We as the people won nothing.
The plutocrats won China's vast slave labor, USSR fell apart into its own constituent nations some under continuous dictatorships others into plutocratic republics and some with genuine democratic republics; almost all suffered a period of great economic collapse only likened to the great depression of the 1929 that was spread from the US to Europe; and some fell apart into civil war and fractured further into smaller divisions like Yugoslavia or Albania.
Additionally, the owners of our nation became more brazen with their world empire, thinking of themselves as the emperors of the old ancient Roman Empire; greed is good and no economic planning, unless of course, it lines robber baron's pockets, turning instead to deficits, feigning when the counter political party is in power to despise deficit spending, but knowing very well deficit spending is a means to turn the taxes of the wealthiest into a loan, treasury bonds and the such mostly only purchased by such parasites, have successfully made their taxes a loan to be paid back with interest.
While the rest of the labor population compete as did the ancient Roman labor population with the slaves of conquest; many a free Roman citizen under great debt and severe competition literally sold themselves into slavery; have most of the tax burden particularly in terms of disposable income to pay such taxes and those bonds with interest back to the wealthiest who can and tend to be the primary if not only purchasers of such bonds.
A tax that is a loan paid back in interest to the wealthiest. And their true taxes lower, and if they truly feel like paying nothing, an offshore bank account will do.
While the state of the economic system is so shit with the competitiveness of dictatorships and tyrannized labor that is tantamount to slavery as well as state owned subsidized businesses of the same nations that can sell at a loss Ad infinitum until there is no industry that is capable of competing domestically; and often the domestic so called captains and master's of the universe plutocrats transplant their factories to these places directly with additional subsidies by these governments for the purpose of pacifying their people through Arbeit Macht Frei servitude; keep'em busy keeps'em quiet; even if they don't get shit for that work; they're too busy slaving away to put up any sort of protest.
This domestic demand destruction then causes the overall domestic economy to turn horribly bad, requiring more and more consumer borrowing just to get basic goods and longer and longer hours, in a desperate attempt to keep things looking bright and keep the borrowing train coming, the Federal Reserve lowers interest rates to near 0% causing rampant speculation among stocks... which is mostly benign since most citizens don't really own any or very many to mean anything; but the worst is the feudalistic nature of real-estate speculation that had driven home appraisals causing un-affordable property taxes, insurance premiums, housing prices, and rental prices to become unsustainable in ratio to wages/salaries.
So not only do the oligarchs suck the tit of tyrants of far off lands for their slave labor and other subsidies, turned their portion of taxes into loans repaid with interest, but have also become feudal lords with their monopolies on real-estate.
There were many times such oligarchs became so brazen.
And it never ended well when they did.
Not for them or anyone.
So whether we won any of these so called wars doesn't matters one ounce.
The fact is, we the people are being ruined by the same robber barons that fucked the people during the 1800's and early 1900's.
The charade via jingoism must end. The level of love for one's nation and people isn't demonstrated by the victory or failure of mass murder that we call war, or other frivolity, but by the ideas and putting forth the means and methods and plannings that people can actually ALL prosper thereby.
We were all played. We become winners when we all realize this.
@@jmitterii2 speak for yourself..
I won plenty.
I'm an American
Too bad you're miserable
@@newt0830 you sound just like Buckley, in defense of anything you deem as American with no capacity for analyzing things apart from your American bubble
What did we win exactly? Just a few decades later, Russia is once again a world power.
Buckley was gay and Gore knew it.
It takes one to know one.
@@dawnpettit8213 Exactly
@@lucianopavarotti2843 your funny but not ha ha funny.
@@dawnpettit8213 I think you meant "you're"
@@lucianopavarotti2843 sorry your butt hurts.
9:36 Such "highbrow American" accents until Vidal says ni-groes
These were upper class white men in the 60's what do you expect the world wasn't what it is now don't bring Political correctness into the picture it's the least intelligent lens to view the past by.
@@mpcc2022 Thank you.
I don't like the comments here - they discuss the politeness of the discourse. One of these men is arguing for mass murder of American young men - the Vietnam war would go on for seven more years and thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese would die. And all for nothing. Zero. Zilch. Just pointless death. EFF POLITENESS.
The huge difference between these two is that Buckley is largely speaking extemporaneously while Vidal scripted, rehearsed and memorized most of his "spontaneous" wit. Buckley was the real deal, Vidal was a poser.
Have to agree. I never thought Vidal could handle Buckley in any of these encounters. The closer you watch them, the less impressive Vidal becomes. Buckley was just too sharp.
Boy was he wrong though
you're kidding right
@@lumo9132 It’s actually well documented that Vidal literally spent weeks preparing his bon mots and “spontaneous” comments. I believe there’s even a documentary that was made about it. Vidal was clever but was not a spontaneous wit in the same class as Buckley.
"Vidal rehearsed his lines"
U mean to tell me Buckley is so predictable u can have a pretend debate with urself and accurately predict how it can go and it's Buckley whom we should look at with respect? Wow.
It’s sad they should of Best friends
Like Mitt Romney and Obama, or Hitler and Nelson Mandela... such a shame