This whole situation is the perfect case study for why I prefer to think of SCP as an expanfing web of ever-shifting, interlocking canons, rather than "infinite canons" or "no canon"
y'know that one SCP that's basically a metal donut that alters reality? I just like to imagine some idiot doctor fiddles with that by mistake every once in a while and rewrites all of existence, and that's where all the conflicting canons come from, they're just getting mashed together in an ever-shifting sea of events and ideas witnessed and remembered only by a single doctor who won't stop mistaking this anomaly for a stealable bagel
Hello, I'm a massive fan of SCP and a big fan of powerscaling and Vs Debating. I wanted to say that I am immensely happy about your videos on this topic, I've seen so much hate on both sides of the SCP Powerscaling discussion which has honestly saddened me, but your videos make me feel seen. You're absolutely right in all your points and it's so refreshing to see someone have such a clear knowledge on the topic, you've very clearly done your research on the subject. As for the controversy itself going on, this is honestly created by people that just don't read. The people that have been pestering authors have been neglecting to actually read the works of the characters and scale them themselves, the entire point of the hobby. And on the VSBW Site, we have a problem of people not reading and seeing that most SCP's are already split up into multiple versions. Many people go onto the site and just look at the numbers, completely ignoring the sections of the Article that say "Base Article, Extended Tales, Djoricverse, Kaktusverse, Canons", and go away thinking that it's just the absolute highest version of them, instead of thinking that different writers want to use different SCP's as their strong characters for their arcs. Now is VSBW's system perfect? No way, not at all. But they are very much on the right track of how to properly use SCP's in a Vs Content. Splitting up the characters between works from an author, hubs, and the official Canons will be of immense use, and honestly, they should definitely make those multiple windows so people don't get confused like they have been. We're close to the SCP Wiki getting a great depiction on VSBW and I hope that the site doesn't pull them when they're as close as they are. Thank you very much for the video, I've already shared it amongst some fans of SCP in the Vs Community that have honestly been tired of people not realizing there are multiple versions. I hope you have a lovely day after reading this, keep up the great work, you are not alone out here.
I'm not sure about that. Plenty of integrated media also sucks. lol And I seen some shows get completely derrailed after just a couple of seasons. I feel it depends on the leadership. The issue with TV shows is that they run into the issue of having various show runners and writters. So there are various point of viewes classhing with eachother. Same for comics. Vs something like manga/anime where is literally a sinlge person running the whole thing as far as story is concerned. Though I also seen some anime/manga completely loose the plot after a single season/couple of volumes.
I really disagree with the points you've brought up in this video, mainly that "canon doesn't exist/canon is meaningless" because inconsistencies and retcons are inevitable. Maybe they are, if any piece of fiction is evolving from one thing to the next, inconsistencies ARE inevitable eventually, but does that mean trying to maintain a consistent timeline of events and understanding of characters is pointless? If nothing else just to try, regardless of if it's feasible or not? Maybe my canons ARE stupid, but I'm still going to try to make sense of something that is inconsistent. And when I make my own fiction, I'm going to do my best to clearly define what is real and what is not, even if it ends up being a Sisyphean task doomed to fail from the start. Also all of the examples you brought up other than SCP (disney star wars, WH40k cultural subversion, star trek) have all gotten WORSE in quality ever since their canons were being changed and retconned into all hell. The sequel trilogy of star wars is a JOKE compared to the original or even the prequels, and it only exists to shamelessly squeeze profitability out of a franchise that should have been relegated to spin-offs a long time ago. Disney had a chance of making an actually good successor to the original star wars trilogy (admittedly it wasn't a big chance but it was there), and instead they used the opportunity to colonize and wall-off star wars as being a franchise for THEIR new content only. And guess what? Most of it sucks, and it certainly isn't star wars anymore. Exceptions to the rule prove the rule, they don't invalidate it. There will always be plot-holes, there will always be retcons, nobody is perfect. But there IS a goal that all authors can aspire to, to keep the worlds they create as consistent to themselves as possible, and to allow others to build upon and expand what they have created, for better or for worse. It's a goal that I hold, and I know many others in my life who also see it this way. It's fine if you do not, and I'm not saying the SCP wiki does a bad job of running things as far as canonicity is concerned. But canons CAN be real, and in my opinion, to some extent they should be. It makes the world of the fiction more real, and immersive, and important. Apologies for the text wall, it's something I feel very strongly about.
I think it's the pervasive one ups manship that the scps can have that they may be referring to and given stuff like manga artists completely changing the scale of power towards the end so their characters look better next to Goku it's not that hard to imagine that kind of thing from less professional writers on the SCP wiki,
One valid complaint I heard on the Warhammer thing is that one dude would rather they focused on the Sisters of Silence. I don't know a lot about 4K to know how valid that take is tho.
From what little I know about it, they basically already filled the role that female custodes would have filled, but in a more unique way. It would have made more sense to roll the Sisters into the Custodes as a joint army than to change the custodes themselves.
I like to think that every piece of fiction is an amalgamation of canons, that everything works off of each other and there’s one true story but a bunch of tiny little stories. The book “How To Read Literature Like A Professor” helped me learn that there’s no such thing as “originality” and our stories are all woven together in billions of different ways, and therefore so are canons. Sorry if that didn’t make any sense i’m tired
I do have an “Omniverse-Spanning AU” I’ve crafted into my head with the SCP Canon I crafted in my head being a small part of it. I’m just gonna come out and say that I’ve retroactively rewrote the laws of all Realities in this AU to where the pinnacle of powerscaling is shared by two beings: The Nothing and The Everything
in regard to the Female Custodes thing, the Custodes used to be half-naked dudes who walked around in loincloths, and were literally just dudes with spears who protected the emperor. Even Horus, the biggest bad since big bads in Warhammer, literally used to just be a dude who decided to rebel against the Emperor on a single planet, and he's been altered so much since then that he's now a duper-powered demihuman son of a literal God who's been ultra-powered by space demons and destroyed half the galaxy. Like my God people, Magnus the RED, the Cyclops himself, one-eyed space wizard Magnus, literally used to be a giant psychic cyclops, and he was BLUE. Like people please, a couple drops of girl power in the ocean of testosterone that is Warhammer will not make a shred of difference, they'll probably not even do anything with it and you'd probably not even notice they're a woman cause they'll be doing the exact same "for the Emprah RAHHHH" stuff they've always done
Hi Dr.Cimmerian, new subscriber here ✋. would you consider writing stories outside SCP universe? me personaly think, it would be great to see your perspective on other sci/fi, fantacy and philosophical geners.
I would push back on what you're saying a bit. Some flexibility is nice, of course. I won't argue it isn't. But Canon is more or less a product of internal consistency. And that internal consistency is what allows for the suspension of disbelief, and maintains a setting's identity. I would argue, even with no set canon, there are things about SCP that can't really be changed without SCP no longer feeling like SCP for anyone who is familiar with past works. While some changes and retconning might be necessary to tell stories, it should never be done lightly, because it will bug the audience and it will degrade the internal consistency of your works. And that is exactly why Star Wars and Warhammer 40k are so contentious right now. The current owners are actively trying to alter the canon such as to destroy the legacy that the original works inspired. I view such destruction as the worst kind of cultural vandalism. It is no different than ISIS going into museums and tearing down statues and artworks that was thousands of years old. It is grossly offensive. If you cannot accept the past conditions of a canon that you are writing for, you have no business writing in that canon.
8:27 Ok, you have no clue what you are talkeing about. I would like to know what you bleive are thses so call contradicions. the synoptic gospels do not contradict one another, like who found the empty tome. in Luke, its says the woman who found the tome were Matthew name the most imported woman who were there and mark name all of them. they do not contradict one another but says what is imported to them, and another reason for the truth of the gospels is that it says it was woman who found the empty tome, and during those days woman were not considerate reliable witness.
I agree with you because supposed "contradictions" in the Bible come from a lack of, or resistance to, understanding on the subject. That said, going on a short rant in a comment section not particular interested on the topic and not presenting the argument well is not a good way to get this point across.
![Everything Anakin did as a Force Ghost [Canon and Legends]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UEGj4OA_hjg/mqdefault.jpg)
Bro's rockin the 1850's beard, i respect it
the harry du bois
No kidding, stovepipe hat and drive a railroad spike, my dude!
Got that Gettysburg cut
@@Jman0163 Came here looking for this.
This whole situation is the perfect case study for why I prefer to think of SCP as an expanfing web of ever-shifting, interlocking canons, rather than "infinite canons" or "no canon"
y'know that one SCP that's basically a metal donut that alters reality? I just like to imagine some idiot doctor fiddles with that by mistake every once in a while and rewrites all of existence, and that's where all the conflicting canons come from, they're just getting mashed together in an ever-shifting sea of events and ideas witnessed and remembered only by a single doctor who won't stop mistaking this anomaly for a stealable bagel
Yoooo the setup is looking pretty good dude
@LakenAnderson chill tf out bro
@LakenAnderson yeh and it's obviously not me lmao
Cimm is absolutely ROCKING that General Ambrose Burnsides look.
No, YOUR canon is stupid! *sniffle* Mine is both AWESOME and nonexistent.
Nice beard. 😉
Hello, I'm a massive fan of SCP and a big fan of powerscaling and Vs Debating.
I wanted to say that I am immensely happy about your videos on this topic, I've seen so much hate on both sides of the SCP Powerscaling discussion which has honestly saddened me, but your videos make me feel seen. You're absolutely right in all your points and it's so refreshing to see someone have such a clear knowledge on the topic, you've very clearly done your research on the subject.
As for the controversy itself going on, this is honestly created by people that just don't read. The people that have been pestering authors have been neglecting to actually read the works of the characters and scale them themselves, the entire point of the hobby. And on the VSBW Site, we have a problem of people not reading and seeing that most SCP's are already split up into multiple versions. Many people go onto the site and just look at the numbers, completely ignoring the sections of the Article that say "Base Article, Extended Tales, Djoricverse, Kaktusverse, Canons", and go away thinking that it's just the absolute highest version of them, instead of thinking that different writers want to use different SCP's as their strong characters for their arcs.
Now is VSBW's system perfect? No way, not at all. But they are very much on the right track of how to properly use SCP's in a Vs Content. Splitting up the characters between works from an author, hubs, and the official Canons will be of immense use, and honestly, they should definitely make those multiple windows so people don't get confused like they have been. We're close to the SCP Wiki getting a great depiction on VSBW and I hope that the site doesn't pull them when they're as close as they are.
Thank you very much for the video, I've already shared it amongst some fans of SCP in the Vs Community that have honestly been tired of people not realizing there are multiple versions. I hope you have a lovely day after reading this, keep up the great work, you are not alone out here.
And this is why tv shows often suck. They go on for too long and lose the plot. The best media is fully integrated.
I'm not sure about that. Plenty of integrated media also sucks. lol
And I seen some shows get completely derrailed after just a couple of seasons.
I feel it depends on the leadership. The issue with TV shows is that they run into the issue of having various show runners and writters. So there are various point of viewes classhing with eachother. Same for comics.
Vs something like manga/anime where is literally a sinlge person running the whole thing as far as story is concerned.
Though I also seen some anime/manga completely loose the plot after a single season/couple of volumes.
I really disagree with the points you've brought up in this video, mainly that "canon doesn't exist/canon is meaningless" because inconsistencies and retcons are inevitable.
Maybe they are, if any piece of fiction is evolving from one thing to the next, inconsistencies ARE inevitable eventually, but does that mean trying to maintain a consistent timeline of events and understanding of characters is pointless? If nothing else just to try, regardless of if it's feasible or not?
Maybe my canons ARE stupid, but I'm still going to try to make sense of something that is inconsistent. And when I make my own fiction, I'm going to do my best to clearly define what is real and what is not, even if it ends up being a Sisyphean task doomed to fail from the start.
Also all of the examples you brought up other than SCP (disney star wars, WH40k cultural subversion, star trek) have all gotten WORSE in quality ever since their canons were being changed and retconned into all hell. The sequel trilogy of star wars is a JOKE compared to the original or even the prequels, and it only exists to shamelessly squeeze profitability out of a franchise that should have been relegated to spin-offs a long time ago. Disney had a chance of making an actually good successor to the original star wars trilogy (admittedly it wasn't a big chance but it was there), and instead they used the opportunity to colonize and wall-off star wars as being a franchise for THEIR new content only. And guess what? Most of it sucks, and it certainly isn't star wars anymore.
Exceptions to the rule prove the rule, they don't invalidate it. There will always be plot-holes, there will always be retcons, nobody is perfect. But there IS a goal that all authors can aspire to, to keep the worlds they create as consistent to themselves as possible, and to allow others to build upon and expand what they have created, for better or for worse. It's a goal that I hold, and I know many others in my life who also see it this way. It's fine if you do not, and I'm not saying the SCP wiki does a bad job of running things as far as canonicity is concerned. But canons CAN be real, and in my opinion, to some extent they should be. It makes the world of the fiction more real, and immersive, and important.
Apologies for the text wall, it's something I feel very strongly about.
This. Absolute truth. Internal consistency is WHY we can enjoy fiction. It's what gives these imaginary world we create their own unique identity.
"For who among us has seen the foundations of this world and deemed it solid?"
I think it's the pervasive one ups manship that the scps can have that they may be referring to and given stuff like manga artists completely changing the scale of power towards the end so their characters look better next to Goku it's not that hard to imagine that kind of thing from less professional writers on the SCP wiki,
That description is wild lmao 💀
Bro is ready for all the weak insults already
My SCP Canon is just me trying to compile all of my knowledge of SCP (Quite a lot) Into one Universe that makes some sense
One valid complaint I heard on the Warhammer thing is that one dude would rather they focused on the Sisters of Silence.
I don't know a lot about 4K to know how valid that take is tho.
From what little I know about it, they basically already filled the role that female custodes would have filled, but in a more unique way. It would have made more sense to roll the Sisters into the Custodes as a joint army than to change the custodes themselves.
Love the Black Mage there.
I like to think that every piece of fiction is an amalgamation of canons, that everything works off of each other and there’s one true story but a bunch of tiny little stories. The book “How To Read Literature Like A Professor” helped me learn that there’s no such thing as “originality” and our stories are all woven together in billions of different ways, and therefore so are canons. Sorry if that didn’t make any sense i’m tired
bro's beard looks like he's trynna sell me a steam-powered airship with a built-in street urchin capture and coal-conversion systems
I do have an “Omniverse-Spanning AU” I’ve crafted into my head with the SCP Canon I crafted in my head being a small part of it. I’m just gonna come out and say that I’ve retroactively rewrote the laws of all Realities in this AU to where the pinnacle of powerscaling is shared by two beings: The Nothing and The Everything
I've basically got the same thing lmao, but for me it's the IS and the NOT
I have a similar thing as well, but I turned it into a writing project with my friends a while back. It's a lot like SCP in that way, actually.
The canons are not stupid…they’re unreliable! -TV Tropes
I am at risk of forming a parasocial relationship
I'm forwarding this to the ethics department
Love the set king
in regard to the Female Custodes thing, the Custodes used to be half-naked dudes who walked around in loincloths, and were literally just dudes with spears who protected the emperor. Even Horus, the biggest bad since big bads in Warhammer, literally used to just be a dude who decided to rebel against the Emperor on a single planet, and he's been altered so much since then that he's now a duper-powered demihuman son of a literal God who's been ultra-powered by space demons and destroyed half the galaxy. Like my God people, Magnus the RED, the Cyclops himself, one-eyed space wizard Magnus, literally used to be a giant psychic cyclops, and he was BLUE. Like people please, a couple drops of girl power in the ocean of testosterone that is Warhammer will not make a shred of difference, they'll probably not even do anything with it and you'd probably not even notice they're a woman cause they'll be doing the exact same "for the Emprah RAHHHH" stuff they've always done
yooo the new setup is so cool
Missed you bro, glad to see you back!
Is this an epic Jára Cimrman reference? If not, your name matches to a person who has once been voted the greatest Czech 🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿
Hi Dr.Cimmerian, new subscriber here ✋. would you consider writing stories outside SCP universe? me personaly think, it would be great to see your perspective on other sci/fi, fantacy and philosophical geners.
Your beard is good.
You look like you are about to do some gold panning
Star Wars shits on its fans, 40k shits on its fans and they're supposed to not care?
I don't think you're understanding his point. And 40k I don't think did such thing.
Hey caught a new upload!
I would push back on what you're saying a bit. Some flexibility is nice, of course. I won't argue it isn't. But Canon is more or less a product of internal consistency. And that internal consistency is what allows for the suspension of disbelief, and maintains a setting's identity. I would argue, even with no set canon, there are things about SCP that can't really be changed without SCP no longer feeling like SCP for anyone who is familiar with past works. While some changes and retconning might be necessary to tell stories, it should never be done lightly, because it will bug the audience and it will degrade the internal consistency of your works.
And that is exactly why Star Wars and Warhammer 40k are so contentious right now. The current owners are actively trying to alter the canon such as to destroy the legacy that the original works inspired. I view such destruction as the worst kind of cultural vandalism. It is no different than ISIS going into museums and tearing down statues and artworks that was thousands of years old. It is grossly offensive. If you cannot accept the past conditions of a canon that you are writing for, you have no business writing in that canon.
Its about fun and entertainment! Tho we should never forget the our origins
I’m fine with both
Oh hey Dr C, did you see the new 3213 file read I did? There's a bit more than just a read in it tho 🤣
bro look like gabe
I thought you were Jack Black.
305 like
I think I'm the first viewer, glad to see you upload!
8:27
Ok, you have no clue what you are talkeing about. I would like to know what you bleive are thses so call contradicions.
the synoptic gospels do not contradict one another, like who found the empty tome. in Luke, its says the woman who found the tome were Matthew name the most imported woman who were there and mark name all of them. they do not contradict one another but says what is imported to them, and another reason for the truth of the gospels is that it says it was woman who found the empty tome, and during those days woman were not considerate reliable witness.
fyi if you want to convince people of a point you probably shouldn't misspell like half of your words
I agree with you because supposed "contradictions" in the Bible come from a lack of, or resistance to, understanding on the subject.
That said, going on a short rant in a comment section not particular interested on the topic and not presenting the argument well is not a good way to get this point across.