Paul Kingsnorth: How to resist the machine
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 06. 2024
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How can normal people resist the increasingly technocratic and soulless nature of human life? Watch writer, activist and Orthodox convert Paul Kingsnorth in conversation with UnHerdâs Freddie Sayers for a guide to finding meaning in what he calls the âmachineâ.
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//TIMECODES//
00:00 - 01:48 - Introduction
01:48 - 06:14 - Paul Kingsnorth explains his unusual sensitivity to transcendental moments
06:14 - 17:13 - How does Paul reflect on his past efforts resisting the machine?
18:44 - 25:48 - Why does Paul Kingsnorth get accused of being a fascist?
25:48 - 31:31 - Paul on homeschooling his children
31:31 - 44:23 - Paul explains his views on AI
44:23 - 46:49 - Is the male interest in technology driving the machine?
46:49 - 52:05 - Is the free market and capitalism good, actually?
52:05 - 55:37 - What myths and metaphors do we need to tackle AI?
55:37 - 59:49 - Is the machine colonising our consciousness?
59:49 - 01:06:37 - Did Paul's experiences with paganism butter him up for Christianity?
01:06:37 - 01:11:57 - How does Paul feel walking around London?
01:14:10 - 01:17:52 - What can individuals do to unplug from the machine?
01:17:52 - 01:18:31 - Concluding thoughts
#UnHerd #PaulKingsnorth #TheMachine
As an Irishman listening to Paul I feel the same way about the uptake of the v passport system. I live abroad and coming home for Christmas to find that I couldn't enter a cafe, restaurant or bar as I wasn't vaccinated was a lonely experience. It altered the view I hold of my country and countrymen.
Yes I feel that, I watched European men from abroad with a great sense of despair. They were so wimpish and fearful. I was stopped from visiting my young daughter based abroad for an entire year because the UK put us (South Africa) on a red list. She still complains about feeling 'abandoned' even though we've tried to extend our time together.
In Australia it was worse than not being allowed to go places. You weren't allowed to work in most cases at all. You needed to be vaxed to clean a public toilet. People had to choose between homelessness and vaccination, which is a human rights abuse under the Geneva Convention. But many people supported it. They don't admit it now ofcourse.
ââ@@fairplayer7435here in the UK they was played and payed
I felt the same in New Zealand
Many in Canada identify with you.
âš *_A.I. isn't about making machines more human like, but to make humans more machine like._* âš
"The danger of the past was that men became slaves. The danger of the future is that man may become robots." ~Erich Fromm
It's both.
Exactly
â@@machinethesun9243 đđœ
Both, converging, merging, commingling
@@OrwellsHousecat yeah, hence the đđŠ
I agree. I had the same response as Paul during lockdowns and it was heartbreaking to see the blind compliance in Ireland.
There was blind compliance all over the world. Critical thinkers were smeared, censored, silenced. People think this is all over... there's another âpandemicâ on the way - of that I am convinced. And the WHO are still pushing for vax passports. Sad thing is most people will go along with it. I despair with humanity at times.
Utterly heartbreaking, but I don't believe Irish people to be deep thinkers.
At the start of this, watching the way lots in Ireland rolled over and obeyed, I thought the population is so used to being ruled over and compelled to comply, it's doing the same thing now. Then I saw most people in most countries did exactly the same. Indoctrination through fear is powerful in all societies, in all countries, not just Ireland
â@@edenelle3651So it seems to me, too. Indeed sad, but it happened everywhere ... also in Finland. đ
city herd cultures driven by foreign fashion and government media shaped trends
and grain cultures being overly collectivist at all times, also pauperisation and poor people being sensitive believing text like holy book and fearing authorities as they can easily loose everything often indebted and living from pay to pay without savings
plus commercial conformists who go with flow at all times especially in capital of country
These interviews with Paul Kingsnorth and, also the one with Nick Cave, show the paramount role of UnHerd in our age of information. Thank you, Freddie et alđ
Unfortunately, Nick Cave kisses the sausage pedo hands of the monarchy and the elite. Real shame.
Here here
@@dixonpinfold2582 I mean; Hear here ! Thank you ;)
Paul always brings some heart back to a soulless society which tries to mimic a machine instead of liberating humanity.
?
brings heart attack?
I've been watching this channel for over a year, and this was by far, my favorite conversation so far. I've been living a "cooked barbarian" life for decades, so it's refreshing to hear from others out there resisting the machine.
You refer to yourself 3 times in two sentences, which is a sign of dull self absorption.
đ Very difficult to do. I've watched people try and fail, myself included. I personally know one man who has achieved it, and he's a gem.
Is it really possible to be a Christian and be 'against' the machine? Christianity CREATED the machine, so how is it possible for Christianity to be the solution? I was really enjoying this talk until he mentioned that he had become a Christian, but to me it seems hypocritical and lazy to say "I'm going to do the same thing as billions of others before me" when that thing is what has led us to where we are. It just seems like an overly simplified non-answer to a very difficult question.
@@pseudonayme7717 I think "Orthodox" is a little bit different, but in general I would agree with you.
@@pseudonayme7717 hypocritical and lazy to adopt an existing religion instead of a brand new one?
The issue with London is that it is no longer English. The magic and the English are buried under so many levels now.
First time I've heard of Paul Kingsworth. Totally agree with everything he says. I'm a Boomer, 67, living in NZ, where we had the same response to Covid as Ireland, and I resisted all of it. That's just one battle - there is much more to come. Paul has some good advice.
More power to ya!
I'm Australian, I think it may have been worse here than Ireland.
I was deeply disturbed and freaked out by the way Australian police were beating people up.
@@GloryDaze73 Yes I believe it was done to induce fear and compliance. I've lost all faith in democracy and anything our government does.
â@@GloryDaze73 saddest thing is all of the premiers who presided over those travesties were re elected with increased majorities.
Paul is so inspiring. Almost by chance he embodies and articulates so much of what I have come to believe as I get older, and as I have come to develop an almost mystical relationship with the landscape I grew up in. I have, to a great extent, spend my adult life as part of the machine. Even so I have never bought a car, I don't have a TV or a smartphone, I almost never buy new 'stuff', and I have long since ceased to believe the mainstream media.
I've never owned a car, I haven't had a TV since my little black and white set died in 2014, and I have a smartphone only because I haven't got a computer or a tablet. Dressing well matters to me, but I haven't the money to Dress Well; it isn't difficult to procure a couple of pairs of well fitting jeans. I have some nice long sleeved shirts which I paid about twenty bucks a piece for at Walmart. I have sweaters, a sports jacket, a winter jacket, and a couple of neckties, all of which I bought in 1984. I have a jacket which belonged to my father.
I believe in dressing neatly because it's an affront to The Great Slobbiness which has become the default style of American appearance.
This could be interpreted as cooperation with something awful, but I'm not sure what it would be.
Love it! May I ask, do you have a computer? Iâm thinking of ditching my older smartphone but struggle to âcut the cordâ. I so enjoy the camera, and the bird and plant and starry sky ID appsâŠ
Especially that last point. I've stopped watching/reading/listening to mainstream media and am so much happier.đ
Itâs not by chance - heâs just describing the same landscape as you!
These discussions are so, so important right now. Thank you. You are like a regenerative version of a political/philosophical forum. The solution to all our problems is to do this: listen with an open heart and speak with an open heart.
This was uncanny; Paul sounds like he's been reading my mind for the last few years. I can just point to this discussion and say "that's what I believe." Just a treat to hear this, thank you!
Stumbled on this episode. Didnât know who Paul Kingsnorth was. He was certainly down to earth and eloquent at the same time. Unusual isnât it? The authenticity of his Christian conversion came through the airwaves. He talked about how Christianity makes one look into oneâs self. So true. That kind of depth makes one want to read at least a couple of the books he recommended. Thanks for the conversation. Thoroughly uplifting.
My background is in ecology, im fairly young and have been involved in environmental policy regulation/implementation within my countrys central government for the last few years. Something about what Paul discusses and how he delivers it makes me feel something in my gut that not many other thinkers can replicate in me. Like some sort of unwelcomed, bleak yet necessary personal revelation. Incredibly enlightening and im thankful for it.
Thank you so much UnHeard and Mr. Kingsnorth! This was a breath of much needed wisdom. đ
Always good to hear Mr. Kingsnorth.
This is why i love UnHerd!! Absolutely brilliant coversation, thank you!
Paul is an important voice in this desert.
Paul Kingsnorth. Iâm so appreciative of this man and his writing. Please Paul, never stop writing!
What a bloody excellent conversation.
Thank you Freddie! I didn't know about Mr. Kingsnorth before this interview. Much respect to him.
One thing Iâd add about modern London (at 1:13) is that it exemplifies how we no longer live in a country, much less a culture, but an economy. Once we realise we are inhabitants of an economy, lots falls into place.
Absolutely! Health is wealth! but is it not all just a numbers game? once the tribe goes past a critical of mass of say 150, the bad apples become too numerous and mob up, the wisdom is lost and 'economy' becomes the driving force. Realisation then only comes when the topsoil has been zapped and we're all sick.
Thatâs exactly what Toronto is like. Where is it? Who knows? You canât tell. Thereâs no country there.
Marx wrote this a long time ago
What I find difficult is how easy it is to control the supposedly intelligent people in our society.
Perhaps it's precisely their conformation to the society that makes them intelligent, but only in it's terms.
"supposedly intelligent"? The great bulk of the human race have no motivation outside of their biological imperatives and the herd instinct.
It is easier to convince someone of a lie than it is to convince them they are being lied to.
Most are so heavily invested with their PhDs & careers that they cannot afford to disentangle themselves.
Or maybe it's shocking how little truly intelligent people there are in our society.
Any monkey can get a PhD if all you need to do is learn some latin words and math formulas by heart and then follow some flow charts about when to apply them...
If only many more people could listen to this profound discussion. I think that it would turn on our internal being away from "limbic capitalism". This is important. Thank you.
Thank you, Paul Kingsnorth. A well-grounded soul, if there ever was one.
This is an amazing interview, and Freddy again shows his gift at very intuitive pushbacks at key times that reveal hidden gems of wisdom in his guests. It is a unique style of interview that Freddy has, along with a talent for selecting very interesting people.
Wonderful conversation! Thank you Unherd and thank you Paul Kingsnorth.
This is the interview that led me to subscribe. Thank you for sharing Kingsnorth with a wider audience. His voice is one I relate to more than most in these times in which I feel more alienated than ever from the mainstream.
Getting closer to nature and learning to appreciate natural Beauty, will help us retain some hope, and also keep us strong in this world. â€â€â€
This is an incredible interview. These are topics I have been pondering on for years now. I wrote a song ''I'm Trapped in a Machine' about 10 years ago. The "machine" has ramped up alarmingly in the last few years so this talk is needed now more than ever. Paul seems like a Renaissance man.
In the same vein that Paul is talking, I think the language being used particularly by Freddie when he talks about "left, activist, environmental"... is part if not all of the problem. fundamentally it's about language and concepts which of course go together...... the mental image creates a concept and that creates language. As Paul said earlier on as we keep using the language of the machine we will never get out of the mess, đwe have to start thinking and talking completely differently. Iain McGilchrist is great on this.
This was so good,really wholesome and fulfilling,meaniful and relevant. I was so encouraged by the testimony that Paul became a Christian,stalked by Christ,such an amazing testimony as well as lots of intelligent thoughts,words,conversations,loved it,thank you for a great interview UNHERD
The fact is, we can all move to farms, but we need to live community. Right now there are 12 of us living in a five bedroom farm. We also have a guest house. We grow food and we feed 60 families. Itâs not that hard. It just takes will.
Not everyone wants to go backwards 200 years
"To see the world in a grain of sand and heaven in a wild flower" William Blake....This phrase stll brings tears to my eyes everytime I read it ! I have this on one of my couch cushions đ
It's beautiful
Always good to listen to Paul Kingsnorth. Great audience questions.
The questions from the audience are very impressive. All very well thought out and made the conversation more complex and more interesting.
This is one of the more enlightened exchanges Freddie has ever conducted. One of the greatest challenges we have a society is addressing the consumptive and its extractive behavior upon which we have built our entire civilization for the past two-hundred years. Mr. Kingsnorth is quite worth the listen.
Paul is a breath of pure fresh air. Thankyou!
So much more switched on and honest than that dork Dawkins you had on last week. Unherd at its best!
In the 1970 we purchased books on Homesteading. We were interested in preserving the old natural world of living.
somehow once we were all given Bankcards and introduced to luxury goods and consumerism we forgot all about the conservation movement. In our hearts we all knew we were bad and had a guilty conscience.
Never ever scan a QR code with your phone and refuse to have anything to do with anyone who uses it... Stores... Airlines... Nobody
I don't take my phone out of the house anymore.
My phone is a landline; don't own a cell phone, never have....trying hard to not ever own one.
As a libertarian at heart,registered Republican as libertarians are too liberty minded to get organized, it is so nice to hear a reasonable and thoughtful presentation from a person who identifies as more left leaning person. Very well presented sir.
Not sure he's a left leaning person. He sounds very much like someone moving into the old Burkean, Scrutonian style of conservatism. Its not Republican (they are a liberal faction).
True conservatism seeks to conserve that which is true and beneficial to society. The land, the family, the community, history, culture, and tradition.
Freddie is such a good interviewer. Great discussion.
You are so very right about the shift in left on values re corporations etc...
I think I heard a dark roar of the monster that is the machine at the end there. Paul , Iâm so deeply grateful for your voice. You are in my prayers.
Voluntary simplicity is an orientation rather than a checklist. I live in an older suburb; my family of four occupy a bungalow with a single bathroom. There is no AI interface in the house and there never will be. We're on a busy and noisy street, but we have a fence, and a garden. We don't get network TV, and although we have a screen to watch things on, it is not in the central part of the house. This is along the Wasatch Front in Utah, where new developments continue to sprout up with oversized houses or dense apartment blocks with deficient yard space. It hurts me to see orchards go under to build new crappy or pretentious buildings, but at least we still have some cultural warrant for household food production of the kinds that do really well here (fruit and nut trees and grape vines), and for preserving our mountain areas for recreation. And I've seen several of our parks full of more recent immigrants, so I have hope that an appreciation for nature and a wish to preserve it is spreading among them.
There is a lack of imagination or comprehension by the host, about Paul's decision to go back to the land and live more simply. He seems to equate this with giving up and despairing. In fact, the opposite is true. As Paul points out, he is as involved in the culture as anyone else on internet. What Paul and many others are doing is not quitting, but strategically repositioning themselves to create more of what they value. Implementing a solution involves ceasing to support with your money and time, that which you oppose, and embodying in physical space a real alternative. A growing decentralized, individualistic and more rural economy will lead to the support of appropriate technologies with its market values. This can proceed organically unless its regulated out of existence, which points to the political obstacle of totalitarian social engineeeing. In a free market system, what you spend your money on is what you are substantially voting for. In fact, choosing the ethical life that mirrors one's truest values is the most radical engagement in saving society.
Iâm curious as to what is âthe machineâ and what is not. Isnât the internet technology/ part of the machine?
@@nancercize In my opinion, "the machine" is not a machine at all, but a means by which spiritual darkness reduces Man and Creation to dead matter. Viewed only as a tabla rasa to be shaped or evolved into something truly "spiritual", God's Creation is given over to "the machine" to be transformed from "darkness" to "light", from wild nature to rational artifice.
An extremely interesting conversation, very thoughtful. Thank you!
Oh my goodness, I am so HAPPY that I came across this video today and discovered this wonderful man! Very wise and integrated in his knowledge. Will look into his teaching more.
That's how I felt the first time I heard Paul talk. He just has something special.
What a lovely and reasonable man. My dream would be to move to a little farm with my family and be self sufficient. Grateful for common sense still surviving in good and brave souls.
Very interesting and enlightening. I like the way Paul Kingsnorth's mind works.
I love the machine stops! It had such a big impression on me when I studied it at school. So glad you mentioned it itâs such a prophetic story.
Unherd really leads the way with higher self conversations. Always learning from these videos.
The Unabomber despite his heinous murderous crimes pretty much nailed it in his manifestoâŠâŠ
I've got a fever and the only cure is more Paul Kingsnorth.
What a kindred spirit! This sense is loss is one of the major themes in Tolkienâs stories
Freddy and crew refer to the 'machine' as modern, but in actual fact Lewis Mumford traces it back to the beginnings of early human civilization. Who is Lewis Mumford? His Technics of Human Development - The Myth of the Machine Vol 1 and 2 are mind blowing at times.
Yes, that makes more sense to me. That's when patriarchy started, that is the machine
I loved this sincere conversation. I share his thoughts. Such a wonderful person!
That line from Chesterton about irreligion was wonderful. Really stuck with me.
Candide ... Voltaire ...
** It's the only way and it is what Paul has done!!!
Really appreciate this wild and wise and courageous conversing â€ïžđđđ
We don't need more stories (false narratives and propaganda). We need more truth and questions honestly answered.
That's not what he said. He said we already have good stories. Humans need stories, not facts and figures. Data is machine-like, stories are human. Stories are often true; they're about processes and their consequences. If you don't use stories then you're unilaterally disarming yourself.
@@ThatMans-anAnimal That's a fairly binary view of things. There is no aspect of humans that is machine like? Data can't tell a story?
Any set of data is interpreted according to a worldview or paradigm; what counts as evidence, its salience, and how its interpreted requires a story, a paradigm of understanding. This is a basic epistemic point that cant be ignored.
This resonates so strongly. I have been after the same things, as a 'generalist', for the last ~20 years, though with more of a focus on the fine arts (especially music) and the metaphysical than the environment. (Though the latter has also been a concern which has grown, especially as we've been raising children.) It is really difficult to keep a job. Anything I can do right now that is profitable enough to provide for my family involves slavery to the machine.
In order to give my family (homeschooling) the best shot at spending time and energy experiencing and valuing what is truly good, I've found I have to stay on the edge of becoming a machine myself to bring in the necessary cash. It becomes extraordinarily depressing.
God bless you manâŠâŠ this is exactly the position we are all in thanks for putting it into words, I feel that a massive divine intervention-change is on the horizon, I really hope so.
I live in Victoria, Canada and I so wish that I could go to an live Unherd event here or Iâd even go to VancouverâŠ.I realize not likely to happen so happy that I at least get to watch the livestream or recorded event!
Its possible the biggest pushback against open borders Globalisation is localism ( at this stage) ?
Meaning to focus on your own town or city first?
@@thetrappedchatterbox7941ffs cop on
â@@naradaian congratulations! You have managed to be both vulgar and incomprehensible.
People round here only think about money.
I was thinking recently that foreigners have enclaves and no go zones. Why shouldn't we?
The James C. Scott book he talks about at 42:00 ish is called The Art of Not Being Governed. Great book as is most of Scott's work.
You can identify a true christuan by their humility.
100%.
It is our 'intellectual arrogance' that creates propulsion of advancing technology et al. even beyond what is safe or ethical...Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do it! However, money, power, intellectual arrogance says if we can do someting, we must do it !
Last generation: gotta stick it to the man. This generation:gotta stick it to the machine.
I believe he mentioned James C Scott , when he talks about barbarians at the 43:00 mark - the book "Seeing Like a State" changes your outlook on the state and over-socialization.
I loved that both Paul and Freddie took a little stab at an American accent đ. Excellent content as always from both of these guys!
This man is great. He has spoken my mind.
That was a really interesting and intelligent conversation. Science wasn't collapsed into scientism, and religion wasn't collapsed into infantilism. Great stuff.
How very heart felt and reasonable. Thank you
Listening to this man is like a breath of fresh air.
I've got a composting toilet too....who knew that would be a rebellious act....slow living is the way forward...cheers from Tasmania Australia
me too! yay us :)
Our technocratic arrangements where machines increasingly do our living for us is explored in depth in "Shrinking the Technosphere" by Dmitry Orlov. Like Kingsnorth, Orlov argues that is up to each of us to set limits and also see the technosphere as an emergent phenomenon that threatens the very biosphere itself, seeks to replace the biosphere with itself, in fact, and that therefore it is helpful to view technocracy in mythical or even religious terms.
Wonderful conversation. Thank you Paul.
Paul is a powerful and enjoyable intellectual. Thank you Freddie.
Thanks to Unherd for this interview.
I enjoyed the talk & happy to hear Paul Kingsnorth. It is inspiring to know such people have such perspectives & ethics.
Thank you Freddie & company. Unherd is my favorite program to come to every day & listen to.
The vision about environmentalism being more about relationships with the land, makes me feel her head the same root as RFKjr. Me too by the way, same generation as this guy, same with in nature and relationship with nature
Very in-depth and interesting conversation đ
Saw only the part I and found quite interesting. Thanks to Unherd.
Fantastic conversation
Interesting choice of the word âmachine.â Thereâs a short story âThe Machine Stopsâ written in about 1905 that could have been written yesterday. You can find it online. OH! He mentions it at 1:03:10 !
A literal Machine world.
Paul is bang on about the distorted âgreenâ agenda that is being pushed. His ideas about how to deal with environmental issues make sense.
Useful and refreshingly different discussion. Thanks. We are most certainty spiritually off track.
All life creation is perfect, the problem is that we think we can create better,but we do't even understand life completely
Great discussion, I look forward to listening to more of his thoughts.
Good interview. I'm curious. What about the elites? Are they going to live more simply? Or is it strictly up to the commoners?
Fabulous intelligent conversation, thank you.
This is a great channel, interesting content
i had the same feelings in Ireland
especially in last pieces of old forests or close to old trees, their wind beings something with it
Enjoyed the interview! Must be there in person when have a break in early September!
Two outstanding remarkable young men. BTW recently Iâve joined the Angelic Russian Orthodox Church. (Prof. (Ret.) Dr Mark Campbell Williams)
We don't really need a new religion. We need a new philosophy, some new understanding of who we are and where we are going.
...so, religion?
fabulous. great work chaps
Thank you for sharing about Christianity.
Paul you are so right about church & state remarks !
I'd LOVE to give up my smartphone. But that's how i watch wonderful videos like this! So it's a conundrum.
Has anyone here read the Fourth Realm Trilogy by John Twelvehawks? It is very relevant to Paulâs description of âthe machineâ and his response to it.