Why The Vatican Has A Giant Research Telescope in Arizona
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- čas přidán 11. 08. 2022
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I've apparently driven past that telescope many times without either seeing it or knowing it was there. Time for a short road trip this weekend...
Can I come?
Make a video!
tell us how the adventure went laterr
@@bonaaq86 Tempting...
A quick road trip to the Vatican.
Galileo wasn't put in jail for heliocentrism. He was put under house arrest for writing a book which called the church stupid for rejecting heliocentrism. I mean, the character in the book defending the church's position was literally called Simplicio (aka, simpleton). House arrest is pretty much the most lenient reaction any 17th Century European power would have for such a public, unrepenting insult.
Being under house arrest in the Italian countryside sounds like such a horrible sentence. How dare they!
Also wasn't there a massive political thing in Europe going on at the time that he was inevitably tangled up in?
You're gonna get banned for contradicting the communist historical revisionism HAI is proudly part of as an Open Society funded channel (yes, Sam is funded by Soros, you can't make this shit up).
Source?
The indictment of the inquisition for the heresy of "having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world;" is readily available, and contains the verdict "And to the end that this thy grave error and transgression remain not entirely unpunished, and that thou mayst be more cautious in the future, and an example to others to abstain from and avoid similar offences, We order that by a public edict the book of DIALOGUES OF GALILEO GALILEI be prohibited, and We condemn thee to the prison of this Holy Office during Our will and pleasure; and as a salutary penance We enjoin on thee that for the space of three years thou shalt recite once a week the Seven Penitential Psalms, reserving to Ourselves the faculty of moderating, changing, or taking from, all other or part of the above-mentioned pains and penalties."
The inquisition stated quite clearly what he was condemned for.
@@FanaticTemplar commie
I used look out my window at Mt Graham and see a little block of the telescope near the peak every morning. there was a huge forest fire years ago, and when it kinda got close to the telescope, the Church pulled some strings and got extra manpower in to help put out the fire
sounds a lot like hurricane harvey when the mega church in texas closed to people needing shelter from the storm and only opened up when it needed to.
@@matthewmccoy7437 I would say this case was different, because if you're HQ'd in Rome and have a lot of different things all over the world you have to keep in mind at once, a forest fire in a rural area on the other side of the world might not easily show up on your radar... until a major holding of yours starts pinging you.
Whereas the megachurch in that city in Texas had a scope of just that city.
I'm not Catholic, never was, but it just seems a different category to me
They made it rain in Arizona.
Infrastructure like this is always high on the list of assets to protect, and would specifically be mentioned on the ICS-209 forms produced by the fire agency managing the incident. It likely had little to do with the church.
Your comment got kinda thread-jacked there, but it's actually a really cool story. I'm not pro- either constituency involved (because if you knew me you'd know that I'm not pro- much of anything) but that gave me some nice feels this morning to go with my usual breakfast of over-mixed coffee and ill-defined resentments.
I found it ironic that in my Catholic high school, we learned about evolution without any qualifications or controversy, but there were always school board fights over this topic for my town's public school system.
The Catholic church has learnt that looking stupid is probably the biggest risk to religion.
Funnily enough, before Covid, many hardline evangelical sects claimed that positive mutation was not possible, therefore evolution was not possible.
When people picture a stereotypical "science denying" Christian, they're usually thinking about evangelical protestants, not Catholics or Orthodoxy
@@failsrus96 yet it’s Catholics who always get wrongly accused of what evangelical Protestants actually do
@@failsrus96 you’d be shocked. I’ve been asked if I think the earth is only 4000 years old mockingly.
@@FatBoy42069 this even happens with people who left the faith. Like, maybe the reason they lose their faith is that they were always fed lies about WHAT to believe??
1:37 Tucson already has laws that any nighttime lighting must either point exclusively below itself or be only composed of the emmission spectrum of Sodium specifically to protect their other observatories in the city, so the finger crossing isn't really necessary
How about more closer satellite towns that may crop up in near future when Tucson became more and more densely populated?
@@rashidiswTucson is known for its astronomy, and has many observatories, so if the other towns light pollution started to have any effect I’m sure something would be done.
People hear the story of Galileo and say "wow the Catholic church really hates science" when if you dig into it, actually Galileo did lack some evidence and due diligence with his theory about heliocentrism (which while it did turn out to be right, you can't just skip to the end with science), and the Pope had a talk with Galileo telling him to be patient and understanding because the academic community was broad and still sorting through some things, and up in Germany the bloodiest war in history was being fought because slightly different belief systems weren't getting long.
Then Galileo published a big thing calling the Pope a big stupid idiot, and THAT's what got him locked up.
bricks
@@SupercheesecakeTV my man with the important questions
Galileo is basically the medieval equivalent of your local weatherman finding something funny in the climate data and going on TV to shout about how global warming is fake.
What the Catholic priests do to little kids is evil
Many people don’t realize how important the Catholic Church has been in schooling, scientific study, medical care, and social programs that support people in need. Although it shouldn’t be considering the church is the largest and longest surviving organization on the planet. Granted like anything involving humans the church has had its fair share of severe problems and because of its size, those problems are often very far-reaching.
the catholic church is a joke. There is a reason they were consider anti-Christs as well as why they go their jesuit friends to create the stupid narrative that a single anti-christ will come at endtimes
Religion is a virus upon the earth
The catholic church currently has one of , if not, the biggest charity, orphanage initiatives globally. You think that with the internet the people can actually know this but they don't.
Sam, I just wanted to let you know that the Catechism isn’t pronounced catch-ism, it is pronounced cat-uh-kism. Other than that, I thought the video was great and hope you have a wonderful rest of your day!
Mark, I just wanted to let you know that "ket" should be spelled "let". Other than that, I found your comment great and hope you have a wonderful rest of your day!
Glad you caught this one, I was just going to tell him off for it.
It's a Cate-schism
Yeah, I heard that and thought, "Well, it's clear Sam was not raised Catholic." 😂
Or “Luthoren”
I went to university to go into physics and astronomy, and I come from a catholic family. While I do not practice catholicism as an adult, my mother very much does, and I have relatives who are priests. While I was in university they were actually connecting me with some of the catholic church astronomy stuff since my priest relatives knew the people running this observatory. I did consider seriously working there but I live far away from Arizona and doubted I would be able to pursue the specific fields I was interested in. Anyone else who has a catholic background though and is into astronomy should probably at least consider it, as like the video says, they actually do real science and aren't just some publicity piece doing meaningless astronomy work.
In my opinion, the pope's endorsement of the big bang is a major impediment to cosmology in particular. Science must question its beliefs, not assume their truth.
Cosmology, circa 1900, included William MacMillan's idea that stellar radiation would be gradually absorbed into the ether, and used to create matter. The aim was to produce a stationary universe in which entropy does not increase to produce heat death.
In the 1930s, this idea was developed further by Walther Nernst who saw the discovery of the galactic redshift as something he had been actively seeking to avoid this fate - evidence of energy dissipation - and realized quantum energy loss would be associated with exponential decay of photon energy.
Although Nernst had been awarded a Nobel in 1921 for his work on low temperature physics and the concept of absolute zero, sometimes known as the third law of thermodynamics, his cosmological work may not have been given the attention it deserves.
Here is what Nernst had found about the redshift. It works out that all photons would lose an amount of energy, hH, per cycle. This implies (from Planck's hypothesis) that electromagnetic radiation would be quantised with zero-point energy, hH/2. The significance of the Hubble constant is that it would be the natural frequency of a quantum harmonic oscillator.
Let Hubble's law be given by c d / D = H x, c is speed of light, d is change in wavelength, D is wavelength, H is Hubble's constant, x is distance traveled by photon. The energy of the photon at the source is h c / D, h is Planck's constant. After traveling a distance x = D + d, the energy falls to h c / (D + d), losing hH in the process which results in the observed exponential decay of photon energy, interpreted as "tired light".
I expect Nernst would have seen the zero-point energy as a superfluid. He won the 1921 Nobel for his work on low temperature physics sometimes known as the third law of thermodynamics. In his view, the zero-point energy would form a well of potential energy from which photons and matter are created and recycled, somehow getting around the second law, and avoiding the heat death of the universe, which was a problem for the cosmology of the day. The quantum structure would be the same with or without heat death.
The zero-point energy may form a kind of compressible ether which is the underlying basis for gravitation and its influence on light.
Hope you can find your way back in whatever you do
Check out father Spitzer
CAUTION, you get involved with these people and they will own you. If the field is that important to you stay as independent as you can. At least from questionable religious influence.
Some do “science”, Some do Meaningless work…Some twiddle thumbs..
You cannot speak for others, you can only speak for yourself and assume…
You would like to think that They do “serious scientific work”… But Are they?…You have no clue..🤙🏻
The telescope sits right next to the LBT (large binocular telescope) and there was a bit of a controversy a few years ago when a module called LUCIFER (now LUCI) was installed on the LBT. People didn't really differentiate that despite their proximity to one another, the Vatican had not in fact installed a 'LUCIFER' module on their telescope. Also, the Vat telescope is big, but compared to the two other telescopes sitting next to it, it's chump change!
Tell me what that modules name stands for. Im betting some atheist scientist name that module judt to troll the roman catholic church.
Lucifer ≠ Satan, however.
Lucifer literally just means “light bringer” and has been used figuratively to mean very different things: Jesus, Satan, a Babylonian king, and the planet Venus. The church would not mind it being used for a telescope component.
@@justins8802 indeed. I remember some protestants getting completely mad after they discovered that a gregorian chant "secretly" calls Jesus as Lucifer under that meaning you explained. Of course the Church doesn't just go around with the association Jesus-Lucifer all the time, but the problem don't actually exist given the proper use.
@@TheGrenadier97 Oh, and Lucifer was a common name used by early Christians. Indeed there is a not-actually-canonized saint named Lucifer of Cagliari.
Galileo was not technically imprisoned because of the heliocentric model, but because he insulted the pope, his employer I might add.
If I recall, he sort of got drawn into an argument within the church over heliocentrism.
@@eurodoc6343 He wrote his book on heliocentrism as a dialog between two figures. One of these figures argued geocentrism and used the Pope's own words to push the idea of geocentrism and was named the Latin word for "simpleton".
Whereas you, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, were denounced to this Holy Office in 1615 for holding as true the false doctrine taught by some that the sun is the center of the world and motionless and the earth moves even with diurnal motion; for having disciples to whom you taught the same doctrine; for being in correspondence with some German mathematicians about it; for having published some letters entitiled On Sunspots, in which you explained the same doctrine as true; for interpreting Holy Scripture according to your own meaning in response to objections based on Scripture which were sometimes made to you; and whereas later we received a copy of an essay in the form of a letter, which was said to have been written by you to a former disciple of yours and which in accordance with Copernicus's position contains various propositions against the authority and true meaning of Holy Scripture…
Whereas however we wanted to treat you with benignity at that time, it was decided at the Holy Congregation held in the presence of His Holiness on 25 Feb 1616 that the Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine would order you to abandon this false opinion completely; that if you refused to do this, the Commissary of the Holy Office would give you an injunction to abandon this doctrine, not to teach it to others, not to defend it, and not to treat of it; and that if you did not acquiesce in this injunction, you should be imprisoned. To execute this decision, the following day at the palace of and in the presence of the above-mentioned Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine, after beine informed and warned in a friendly way by the same Lord Cardinal, you were given an injunction by the then Father Commissary of the Holy Office in the presence of a notary and witnesses to the effect that you must completely abandon the said false opinion, and that in the future you could neither hold, nor defend, nor teach it in any way whatever, either orally or in writing; having promised to obey, you were dismissed.
And whereas a book has appeared here lately, printed in Florence last year, whose inscription showed that you were the author, the title being Dialogue by Galileo Galilei on the two Chief World Systems, Ptolemaic and Copernican; and whereas the Holy Congregation was informed that with the printing of this book the false opinion of the earth's motion and the sun's stability was being disseminated and taking hold more and more every day, the said book was diligently examined and found to violate explicitly the above-mentioned injunction given to you; for in the same book you have defended the said opinion already condemned and so declared to your face, although in the said book you try by means of various subterfuges to give the impression of leaving it undecided and labeled as probable; this is still a very serious error since there is no way an opinion declared and defined contrary to divine Scripture may be probable.
Therefore, by our order you were summoned to this Holy Office, where, examined under oath, you acknowledged the book as written and published by you. You confessed that about ten or twelve years ago after having been given the injunction mentioned above, you began writing the said book, and that then you asked for permission to print it without explaining to those who gave you such permission that you were under the injunction of not holding, defending, or teaching such a doctrine in any way whatever.
@@lunascapes Cute. A paste of a lengthy excerpt stripped of the historical context used to push an oversimplified narrative over the reality that it wasn't a simple story. And not just here, but spammed in other comments to smite any mention of the full story of how that pronouncement came about.
@@Merennulli The funny thing is, the full pronouncement actually demonstrates, rather than refutes, that there was more to his imprisonment than simply teaching heliocentrism. Even in a context ignoring vacuum, one has to ask the question that arises from the pronouncement: if something is considered dangerously blasphemous, why did the Church wait over a decade to care?
I wonder if lunascape's next trick is to argue that Al Capone was a nice man whose only crime was not paying his taxes...
You know it’s a good day when both HAI and Real Life Lore post
Real life lore: store brand Wendover
And polymatter
I literally got the notification for this video while I was watching RLL's video
Galileo was not put in jail for saying the earth went around the sun. Galileo was put under house arrest for using private conversations he had with the Pope to make fun of how stupid the Pope was after being asked not to do that. I really wish someone would get this right at least once.
But pope bad arrest Galileo for science is more fun.
Idk. Arresting people for making fun of you sounds like fascism.
@@sleepyearth *Totalitarian. All fascism is totalitarian, but not all totalitarianism is fascist.
@@sleepyearth it’s about privacy laws. Literally Kim kardashian and Kanye got in trouble for doing this a couple years ago
New mistakes for a mistakes video
Never thought I'd see the day when Sam from HAI articulates Thomist doctrines on faith and reason
It's almost too interesting.
I love how over the months and years, the speed of the HAI narration has increased
I always watch his videos at X1.5 speed, even though they're already short. Oddly, it also makes the jokes land better for me.
Did anyone else notice the audio getting quieter at the 0:30 mark? I thought I'd turned the volume down by mistake for a second.
I also noticed it
I would recommend watching the interview with the Vatican Astronomer over on the Sixty Symbols channel. Very smart dude an goes a bit more in depth about the Observatory's current work.
Nice suggestion, thanks!
Apparently you can use the same picture for two different buildings (1:10 & 1:13)
There are a few quick issues:
- Copernicus was more than likely not a priest, he did have a Doctorate in Canon Law, and worked as a canon in Warmia under his bishop uncle. It seems that Galileo would have been the person behind this myth.
- Second, the idea behind Galileo and the Church is way oversimplified. Galileo's issue was his insulting the pope. It should be noted that Galileo was not entirely correct in his belief that the sun was the center of the universe and had pretty good conditions.
- Finally, the Church's issue with those controversies is not an issue with the benefits, adult stem cell research is accepted, but rather the morals in relation to them.
- Think Sam was pretty clear about using Wikipedia for the priests that do science bit.
- Yes Galileo wasn't quite correct but the church's claim was that the earth was the centre of the university because the God values us so much and humans must be so important. Galileo was told to stop talking about his theory. It took him a while but sixteen years later he ignored this warning and published a stronger piece saying heliocentrism was a much better model than geocentrism...to which the church responded by interrogating him under oath and then making him an offer that they would give him a lighter sentence if he rescinded his claims. Galileo ended up saying that he didn't really believe in heliocentrism, just wanted to show how good he was at debating and obviously geocentrism was the winner. For his compliance he was just given a slap on the wrist and house arrest.
- Morals are ambiguous, where health care is concerned there is always some good. The contraceptive pill does way more than just stop pregnancy - some people have periods so painful that it brings their life to a halt every month (endometriosis, adenomyosis and more) - the pill is key to giving them agency in their lives. Ignorance to a topic only does more damage.
Whereas you, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, were denounced to this Holy Office in 1615 for holding as true the false doctrine taught by some that the sun is the center of the world and motionless and the earth moves even with diurnal motion; for having disciples to whom you taught the same doctrine; for being in correspondence with some German mathematicians about it; for having published some letters entitiled On Sunspots, in which you explained the same doctrine as true; for interpreting Holy Scripture according to your own meaning in response to objections based on Scripture which were sometimes made to you; and whereas later we received a copy of an essay in the form of a letter, which was said to have been written by you to a former disciple of yours and which in accordance with Copernicus's position contains various propositions against the authority and true meaning of Holy Scripture…
Whereas however we wanted to treat you with benignity at that time, it was decided at the Holy Congregation held in the presence of His Holiness on 25 Feb 1616 that the Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine would order you to abandon this false opinion completely; that if you refused to do this, the Commissary of the Holy Office would give you an injunction to abandon this doctrine, not to teach it to others, not to defend it, and not to treat of it; and that if you did not acquiesce in this injunction, you should be imprisoned. To execute this decision, the following day at the palace of and in the presence of the above-mentioned Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine, after beine informed and warned in a friendly way by the same Lord Cardinal, you were given an injunction by the then Father Commissary of the Holy Office in the presence of a notary and witnesses to the effect that you must completely abandon the said false opinion, and that in the future you could neither hold, nor defend, nor teach it in any way whatever, either orally or in writing; having promised to obey, you were dismissed.
And whereas a book has appeared here lately, printed in Florence last year, whose inscription showed that you were the author, the title being Dialogue by Galileo Galilei on the two Chief World Systems, Ptolemaic and Copernican; and whereas the Holy Congregation was informed that with the printing of this book the false opinion of the earth's motion and the sun's stability was being disseminated and taking hold more and more every day, the said book was diligently examined and found to violate explicitly the above-mentioned injunction given to you; for in the same book you have defended the said opinion already condemned and so declared to your face, although in the said book you try by means of various subterfuges to give the impression of leaving it undecided and labeled as probable; this is still a very serious error since there is no way an opinion declared and defined contrary to divine Scripture may be probable.
Therefore, by our order you were summoned to this Holy Office, where, examined under oath, you acknowledged the book as written and published by you. You confessed that about ten or twelve years ago after having been given the injunction mentioned above, you began writing the said book, and that then you asked for permission to print it without explaining to those who gave you such permission that you were under the injunction of not holding, defending, or teaching such a doctrine in any way whatever.
@@lunascapes based
@@davidjennings2179 re: contraceptive pill: if it's used in a non-contraceptive method, such as the ones you mentioned, they are completely allowed. The problem with it isn't stopping the woman from ovulating, but rather using it as a contraceptive.
@@lunascapes
The issue in the 1633 trial under the Congregation of the Index, was not an issue of science but rather Galileo entering into the realm of theology. It should be noted that at this time - and as far as I know still isn’t - there was no official infallible doctrinal answer on whether or not the sun went around the earth or vice versa. Further, once again Galileo couldn’t fully explain his teaching, part of why he was asked to not teach it as fact. Even then you could make the argument that a majority of this incident was political with his insulting of the Pope and ergo his supporters.
Catch-ism is an interesting pronunciation of "catechism." The more common way to say that word is "cat-eh-kism"
I caught that too. It's at 3:29
It was really jarring; that's why I'm here commenting. Sam, please look up pronunciations instead of just making up the most cursed way to combine letters.
I studied Astronomy at the University of Arizona in Tucson. The Astronomy campus building has a satellite Vatican office (which takes up most of a floor)
Correction: Galileo didn't invent "the" scientific method - "the" scientific method isn't a thing outside of high school science courses. Philosophers and historians of science recognize that scientists and philosophers have used a variety of methods for doing science. Many high schools teach something closer to Popper's scientific method (with its emphasis on falsifiability and focussing on level of support rather than determining truth), which wasn't developed until centuries after Galileo. I would suggest reading more about the philosophy of science, my old professor Peter Achinstein has a good book. I especially like Feyerabend's anarchist theory of the scientific method.
Moreso "invented" by francis bacon
The video doesn't claim this though.
@@ooooneeee Yes it does, at around the 2:50 mark.
I wouldnt use opposing stem cell research and birth control as a reason to say the Catholic Church is sometimes “anti science”. This just points to the moral differences between Catholic Church and more secular scientific groups. For example in secular science there’s a lot of things that could potentially lead to more scientific breakthrough that we tend to avoid because of moral implications such as experimenting with real people. The Church not supporting certain things is just them taking this a bit farther not them being anti science
I'm an atheist, but also very open minded, for all i know any of the worlds religion could be true, but it's awesome catholicism is trying to better humanity through science that they can get behind.
A very valid point. But to defend HAI, it's not unreasonable, in this context, to interprets his "anti-science" as meaning _"disagreeing with the consensus on the scientific community on research directions that ought to be investigated"_ rather than _"sometimes against the scientific method"_ . By the former sense, what you're saying and what HAI is saying are completely in agreement.
@@QuantumHistorian By that definition, any scientist who has differing moral views than the consensus is anti-science, but that would probably include most scientists. We should also be very grateful for all the anti-science people and organizations who helped make psychological studies more ethical over time.
Personally, I see debates on scientific ethics as part of the scientific process rather than opposed to it, but to each their own, I guess
I would. The fact that they "oppose" these things because of a fictional being is inherently anti-science.
So the “Church science” and “Secular science” have differing rules and they sometimes disagree, that’s all. But thank goodness “Secular science” exists because otherwise we won’t get those “heretic” things at all, like birth control which will become an issue even among rightfully wed couples.
You know, a video on the history of bricks would be interesting
He already made one
@@Game_Hero one, yes, but how about a second video?
As a Catholic I did enjoy the baby Pope. Very cute
Gods don't exist. Grow up.
@@vp9549 I'm pretty anti-religion myself, but that was just mean spirited. Dude said absolutely nothing to provoke rudeness like that.
@@guus19900 Besides subscribing to a religion that has consistently worked to suppress human rights, spread disease, spread baseless hatred, halt scientific progress, etc. just to selfishly alleviate their own fear of death by deluding themselves into worshipping a nonexistent god? I disagree. I just don't have favorable bias towards religious people. Just like I would tell someone who believes that Abraham Lincoln is their 200-year-old neighbor who supplies them with longevity potions to grow up (actually, I'd recommend they see a psychiatrist, but the system is entirely favorably biased towards religious people), I'd tell someone who believes in a wish-granting magical man in the sky to grow up.
But can you use the telescope to explore Martian bricks?
I think this is by far your best video yet, great job
I wonder how many observatories there are out in Arizona. There are definitely quite a few. I knew of Lowell Observatory (Flagstaff) and one in Tucson. Never knew of that one.
Putting an observatory in a desert is a good idea as it's unlikely to have an overcast day in the middle of a desert
Kitt Peak! It's awesome! 👍🏼😎✌🏼
Most of the mountains around here (Tucson) have an observatory atop of them. I studied Astronomy at the University of Arizona in Tucson.
There are 48 last count.
Yeah, we have a bunch, for two main reasons:
1. We have a bunch of BIG mountains.
2. Most places have no light pollution.
Basically, if there is a mountain in the middle of nowhere in Arizona, it probably has an observatory.
One of my favorites is Kitt Peak, which I believe is at the end of SR-386, west of Tucson. There is also one on top of Mount Lemmon, the Tucson one already mentioned.
A bit of research reveals there are 48 observatories in Arizona, which is nice because Arizona is the 48th state.
Just going to say that there’s nothing counter-intuitive about the Church being pro-science, unless your prejudgement of Catholicism is based on what Protestants said about Catholicism in the 18th century or what popular conceptions of specific anti-science denominations today.
It's not counter-intuitive on the basis of the church's principles, but it is on the basis of the catholic church's history.
@@silverblue2384 The Catholic Church was remarkably progressive compared to other world religions. They broke up the clans, allowed women some self-determination, and prioritized observing the world to see God's greatness over just studying the bible which gave birth to Western science.
Most people in America, at least, just lump Catholicism into the bin of "Hardcore Christians" and think they all must share similar beliefs on everything when in reality Protestants have always been the extremist outliers.
@@allentiu3982 by promoting Heinrich Kramer’s Malleus Malleficarum the Catholic Church put back womens rights by centuries. I agree that their anti science is exaggerated but I also wouldn’t call them progressive. They did just as much bad as they did good, perhaps even more bad. They just weren’t completely anti science Luddites like modern media portrays them as.
Very counter-intuitive when you consider they literally worship a fictional being.
If you look carefully, there are a lot of bricks in this video. Is it an easter egg that hints for something to come?
As a catholic, I really really appreciate you being unbiased here. People are quick to demonize the church without knowing what we really stand for or believe. Thank you.
Ha! Found a mistake for the annual mistake video:
It's spelled Martin Luther, not Martin Luthor. ( 4:12 )
Sam is a Catholic sleeper agent. Codeword: Transubstantiation
I actually do some work for the Vatican observatory in Tucson, bunch of dudes from all over who run it, they have a housing complex where the visiting astrologers stay near downtown.
You truly created your worst enemy. Now you gave the rest of us this knowledge, we'll all want a video about bricks.
The problem with Galileo was not that the Church rejected heliocentrism. It was that Galileo had drawn some philosophical/theological conclusions about the problems he discovered with the then current model of the universe that were outside his scope of work. Two, he was contradicting the the scientific consensus with a model that was more correct in the overall shape than the contemporary model but bad in the specifics, like predicting the motions of the planets. it did not help that a Galileo was something of a jerk about it all. it was more a scientist against the Scientific Establishment with the Church dragged into it, than some clean idea of Religion suppressing Science.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Br. Guy Consolmagno, the director of the Vatican Observatory. Look him up. He's an interesting fellow. Quoth he: "Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god."
That telescope is watching for the return of Jeebus.
I love the jokes in all of your videos, but in this one your stock image game is particularly good
HAI and Real Life Lore post within 3 minutes of each other? Sweet!
The reasons behind Galileo’s house arrest were only partly, if at all, related to scientific claims. He was actually like besties with the Pope, which clearly had its pros and cons, lol.
He actually made fun of the Pope. The science part was like the excuse.
What are friends for lol
I’ve always related Catholicisim with astronomy because the school that i went was a catholic one and we had a big ass dome telescope in the top of a building all in the name of La Virgen Maria. Also we supposedly have the best astronomy and physics lab in all our region and foreign scientists and college students always came to my school i remember. I regret never being interested in astronomy, having all the facilities to do it.
I wish I could be a massive telescope (in Arizona of course)
Son, you can be anything you set your mind to.
Remember, the real telescope is inside you.
And it probably hurts. (or feels great, I don't judge)
As an Arizona resident, I would happily welcome a 49th massive telescope.
As a proud Catholic, I believe I speak for over 1 billion of us when I humbly ask you for more Baby Pope.
But only to the tune of "Baby Shark"
Gods don't exist. Grow up.
@@vp9549 we don't exist, wake up, please wake up, your family mises you
Tucson has dark sky policies to protect the several astronomical observatories on the mountains immediately surrounding the city, run by the University of Arizona and a bunch of other groups, so the Catholic Church probably has nothing to worry about. And I know this doesn't prove anything, but Tucson was actually the first place I saw the Milky Way with my own eyes, so that was pretty cool.
So even if Tucson got that big, Tucson has light pollution laws so it wouldn’t matter that much as it would stop it from messing up the observatory. They were put in place since kit peak (another observatory) is on the mountain near Tucson
They also made those laws for the observatories on mt lemmon
3:27 lol how did you just pronounce Catechism?? 😂😂😂
At my Catholic college a priest teacher stood up at the podium and basically told the whole class flat out that evolution was real.
I don't even recall him qualifying it with the "intelligent design" label or anything. It even upset a couple more traditional students, Father Andy Younan is a hoot. You can find him on CZcams actually.
I come from a rural village in a very catholic country and throughout my youth i was obsessed with dinosaurs and natural history. It was never a problem and the first time i heard about creationism was as a teenager because of exposure to american media. Every young earth creationist is considered a total nutjob here and people typically associate them with cults and americans.
@@valentinmitterbauer4196 I grew up similarly, my parents let me watch documentaries about the evolution of early ocean life, some of my earliest memories, and they were and are conservative Catholic charismatics.
We had a priest do a science lecture in middle school. It was CoE though.
That Lawrence Krauss, so self-satisfied, and unaware that the greatest scientist in human history, Sir Isaac Newton, was a scientist and theologian and credited his faith as a motivator in his life to his journey into science. The fathers of modern chemistry were also Bible believing Christians.
I really doubt Lawrence Krauss is unaware that Newton was religious, it's pretty common knowledge.
Well science is the how, religion is the why. The only reason that the two are put seemingly at odds is due to the secularization of the modern world. Medieval Islam before the Mongol invasions and Early Modern Europe proves religion and science can coexist in harmony.
@@allentiu3982 by coexisting in harmony you mean when religion has so much power that any scientific inquiry that doesn’t agree with it can simply be burned, persecuted and never talked again. Secularization simply allows these ideas to finally surface and contest each other fairly.
@@RadenWA I'm not talking about Wahhabi Islam, Inquisition Spain, or Legalist China. I'm talking about when religion allowed science to make its advancements while still having most people follow its social policies. It can happen and it has happened in Early Modern Europe up until the First World War and Islam up until the Mongols sacked and burned Arabia. You saw tremendous increases in discoveries and inventions in many different scientific fields during these times all while said countries remained mostly very religious.
@@allentiu3982 I am not talking about those either. I’m talking about the time when saying the sun isn’t the center of the universe is considered heresy because it undermines the church’s authority or when the caliphate burned anything in the library of Alexandria “if it contradicts the Koran”. If these did not happen or I got the time period wrong from the golden age you referred, feel free to enlighten me.
Jesuit Catholic priests contributed so much to Astronomy since the Renaissance that there are 35 craters on the moon named after Jesuit priests. It’s a shame most people don’t realize that the very person who proposed the Big Bang theory was a Jesuit Catholic Priest. So thank you very much for pointing that out.
Also, it wasn’t just calendars & dates that the Catholic Church contributed to; they also contributed to times of the day. Before everyone had access to clocks & watches, it was usually churches who funded the manufacturing of clocks and installed them in bell towers and rung bells to let everyone know what time it was. Anyway, great video! Glad I subscribed.
By the way, Galileo got arrested not because of science vs religion. He got arrested because he insulted the Pope for no reason by publishing a book that portrayed the Pope as an idiot even though the Pope was just trying help Galileo get out of trouble. Also, even before his arrest, he was already doing wild things like twisting Bible verses to fit his theory, plagiarizing, being a complete jerk to everyone who disagreed with his theories, and most importantly, kept shouting to everyone that his theories are facts even though he clearly failed to provide evidence. His claim was true that the sun was at the center. However, he didn’t actually have enough evidence & the few evidences that he did have were often times incorrect.
He wasn’t even really put in jail too. They just put him on house arrest
You can't use the word "evidence" to mean "pieces of evidence" in English.
I too will like to defend the pope. But it is way more credible to accept the the Catholic church F***d up. And it keeps doing so even today. I wish they will just focus on the Bible
@@zamoraaz7392 Correct. In his time his crime would have resulted in being thrown in jail. But the pope decided to have mercy on Galileo and placed him under house arrest. Instead of rotting in a cold, dark cellar, he was placed in a beautiful house. He had nice bed, a servant to take care of him, and a window with a nice view of Rome. He was treated more like a hotel guest than an actual prisoner.
@Caleb OKAY Being a consistent major contributor to scientific progress sounds good on paper, until you realize that the Catholic church has also been a major stifler of scientific progress as well, in equal or greater measure. So at best, the good they do for science is cancelled out.
I now have a reason to go to Tucson Arizona. I need to be able to stick my nose up and elaborate upon this.
Don’t forget a catholic made the Big Bang theory
If the answer isn't "to look for god" then I'm gonna be real disappointed.
We don't need a big telescope for that
"You know, I was god once."
-Bender Bending Rodriguez
That would be heresy.
my dad works on the MMT observatory on mt hopkins near there and has actually observed at the VATT many times and they all share an office building at the U of A
Finally,
A video to send to people to explain there actually is a Papal Telescope here in Arizona.
The holy see
As for why Tucson Arizona: Arizona has many dark sky cities that are among some of the best in the world, with Tucson being the top of that top. On top of Mount Lemmon, the big mountain to the north of the city, there are (if I remember correctly) 13 state of the art telescopes staring at the sky every night, with one of the ones on top even being remotely operated by the Korean government (as of 2019 at least). The University of Arizona as a whole champions space research, with many nasa missions including Osiris Rex being largely controlled by UArizona, and there’s even a state of the art satellite mirror laboratory built under the uni’s football stadium.
As for why mirrors to operate the telescope instead of lenses: glass is very heavy and to make a singular lens that’s several feet across like what you would need on a deep space telescope, the glass would buckle under its own weight. Mirrored lenses eliminate that physics issue by having concave mirrors that magnify an image at the expense of slight image degradation. Source for all this: I’m a 2020 grad of UArizona and my journalism thesis was a photo essay on an astronomer who’s whole career was studying asteroids and other near earth objects you can look it up it was published BRO
I like to think this very informative comment was just a clever ploy to plug your paper XD
There's also Kitt's Peak!
@@MajorOutage yeah kitts peak is also incredible!!!
Great video, but I will have to join in clarifying that Galileo wasn’t jailed because of the Church was ant-Science, but because he insulted the Pope in his book.
Whereas you, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, were denounced to this Holy Office in 1615 for holding as true the false doctrine taught by some that the sun is the center of the world and motionless and the earth moves even with diurnal motion; for having disciples to whom you taught the same doctrine; for being in correspondence with some German mathematicians about it; for having published some letters entitiled On Sunspots, in which you explained the same doctrine as true; for interpreting Holy Scripture according to your own meaning in response to objections based on Scripture which were sometimes made to you; and whereas later we received a copy of an essay in the form of a letter, which was said to have been written by you to a former disciple of yours and which in accordance with Copernicus's position contains various propositions against the authority and true meaning of Holy Scripture…
Whereas however we wanted to treat you with benignity at that time, it was decided at the Holy Congregation held in the presence of His Holiness on 25 Feb 1616 that the Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine would order you to abandon this false opinion completely; that if you refused to do this, the Commissary of the Holy Office would give you an injunction to abandon this doctrine, not to teach it to others, not to defend it, and not to treat of it; and that if you did not acquiesce in this injunction, you should be imprisoned. To execute this decision, the following day at the palace of and in the presence of the above-mentioned Most Eminent Lord Cardinal Bellarmine, after beine informed and warned in a friendly way by the same Lord Cardinal, you were given an injunction by the then Father Commissary of the Holy Office in the presence of a notary and witnesses to the effect that you must completely abandon the said false opinion, and that in the future you could neither hold, nor defend, nor teach it in any way whatever, either orally or in writing; having promised to obey, you were dismissed.
And whereas a book has appeared here lately, printed in Florence last year, whose inscription showed that you were the author, the title being Dialogue by Galileo Galilei on the two Chief World Systems, Ptolemaic and Copernican; and whereas the Holy Congregation was informed that with the printing of this book the false opinion of the earth's motion and the sun's stability was being disseminated and taking hold more and more every day, the said book was diligently examined and found to violate explicitly the above-mentioned injunction given to you; for in the same book you have defended the said opinion already condemned and so declared to your face, although in the said book you try by means of various subterfuges to give the impression of leaving it undecided and labeled as probable; this is still a very serious error since there is no way an opinion declared and defined contrary to divine Scripture may be probable.
Therefore, by our order you were summoned to this Holy Office, where, examined under oath, you acknowledged the book as written and published by you. You confessed that about ten or twelve years ago after having been given the injunction mentioned above, you began writing the said book, and that then you asked for permission to print it without explaining to those who gave you such permission that you were under the injunction of not holding, defending, or teaching such a doctrine in any way whatever.
"Peace be with you, and don't forget to smash that subscribe button" I lost it 🤣
Nice video! Also, thank you for being fair to both sides on the matter. :)
As someone who works with people who used the VATT, it is not a good place to observe, (I've heard) the training is really hard/tedious so not a lot of people are "qualified" and there is/was a rat infestation so they had to go sleep in an observatory next door. The VATT will literally give you extra days to observe since no one uses it.
Free observation time sounds fun.
I saw the title and was like "that's not very interesting" but then I remembered the name of the channel and now I'm here
I took the Mt Graham tour a while back. (Begins in Safford and you get in a bus and drive up Mt. Graham to the observatory.) The guide stated that the church refers to this effort, jokingly, as penance for Galileo. Seriously, though, pure science is about the search for absolute truths and the more you understand about the nature of the universe around you, the more you understand about the Creator of all these things, so it does indeed fit in with the religious beliefs that support for education and for science would be a proper endeavor.
Is it me or does the audio dip down at 00:30?
I'm almost surprised by how much people are defending the Church with Galileo, but then again, considering how pro science the Catholic Church actually is, it's not too surprising that there are other Catholic HAI viewers. Lol
I love how the term "if you're a keen observer" comes up 3 seconds after a major typo on screen lol
I think that the fact that its in Arizona is even more interesting than its existence itself
As I Catholic I am extremely insulted by the pope animation at the end of the video. I’ll not have God’s steward on Earth diminished by a goomba. Nothing less than a red koopa or those really annoying hammer-throwing guys is worthy of such an honor.
Best HAI comment I've seen
Ok, dat fair
The pope is NOT God’s steward on earth. Read the Bible.
@@neatnateable I might be mistaken, but I don't think that any religious institution is clarified in the bible itself.
@@quuaaarrrk8056 The Bible does show though, that Christ clearly wanted Peter to have a leadership position among the apostles.
Today's fact: The largest living organism on the earth is Quaking Aspen, a single tree in Utah which weighs 6,000 tonnes.
Ok
Okk
Very interesting
I thought it would be a type of fungus, since there are ones that are interconnected to each other which make up some sort of superorganism
That’s a lie I looked it up compared to a human and it’s thinner than us
I live about an hour away from Mt Graham where the telescope is and can see it from several points in the mine where I work also an hour away.
3:26 hey, that's the third name on that wikipedia list, there is so much effort put into this video
The reason why Galíleó was punished was that he insulted his boss to a great extent, had a feud with the Pope at the time, and he had no proof for his theory at the time.
Plus, he had no good answer for the apparent lack of parallax when questioned.
To quote another comment in this comment section replying to a comment similar to yours:
"This is a widely debunked theory.
Galileo was put on trial for advocating Copernican theory years before Pope Urban VIII was elected. There is little evidence beyond mere speculation that the Simplicio character in the dialogues was meant to satirize the Pope.
In any event, the formal charges and conviction for heresy were explicitly tied to his publication of the dialogues and advocacy for heliocentrism. That is why his book was banned, as was Copernicus's earlier treatise.
There may possibly have been more venial reasons for Gallileo to be charged, convicted and imprisoned by the Inquisition for the remainder of his life. Doesn't change the fact that, under Canon Law - Galileo was a heretic not because he made fun of the pope, but because heliocentrism was heretical."
@@The_Blazement When do you posit that Galileo was put on trial, prior to the papacy of Urban VIII?
@@The_Blazement just because one person said it doesn't mean it disproves everyone else saying the contrary 👍
@@The_Blazement he had no proof for his theory at the time
Actually, while Copernicus was a clergyman his relationship with the Church was a bit more complex. First, he withheld publishing of his book 𝘋𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘷𝘰𝘭𝘶𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘪𝘣𝘶𝘴 𝘰𝘳𝘣𝘪𝘶𝘮 𝘤𝘰𝘦𝘭𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘶𝘮 (i.e. About the spinning of Orbs) almost until his death in 1543. Second, during his youth, he fought for Poland in its war against the Teutonic Knights, a religious military order.
Certain clergymen were "in" more for the benefits, but they were "in" anyway. A similar case goes to the Teutonics, that at this time (and for quite long before) weren't exactly good examples of old crusading piety.
"Old religions will have to expand and adapt or they will die out."
_Greater Community Spirituality » Chapter 18: What is human destiny?_ by Marshall Vian Summers
Oh Amen and indeed. They have all been so over laid with mankind's need to for power and control. I am so grateful God's word has come into the world again in it's pure form. Humanity needs this Revelation. Thank you Ivan.
Thank you!
2:18
Glad that the madlad Robert is finally getting some recognition.
I never thought I'd see something about where I live in an HAI videos :')
Sam, thanks for your fairness toward the Catholic Church! As a devout Catholic and a longtime follower of your channel on Nebula, I'm grateful to you for doing your research into what the Catholic Church actually teaches and not just repeating a lot of the anti-Catholic tropes that secular culture often slings around.
A lot of those tropes are recycled propaganda from Protestants, which is funny considering they’re the ones that advocate strongly for a literal interpretation of the Bible and believe absolutely wacky things like there was a *literal* snake and the earth took *literally* 6 days to make, etc
2:04 Damn Sam's moving up in the world! Partying in Vegas AND uploading videos on the Vatican, two ends of the sin spectrum
The last time I was this early HAI was still completely as interesting
Growing up in Safford I was always mystified by the telescopes atop Mt. Graham. Amazing science being done up there.
They were looking for God in the heavens.
Is the "the curch is the largest provider of medial health care" still true? Or is this one of those, on paper, yes but in reality, no kinda things. I'm just asking because I know that both christian churches are touted as the biggest employers in Germany but the staff and the whole hospitals actually get paid in full by the government.
I’m guessing you’re from the US like me where many of the Catholic hospitals have been taken over by private companies and states. And those seems to be the photos that he shows in the video. But I am thinking maybe outside of the “developed world” where government healthcare systems are nearly non-existent, the best care for people in these places usually comes from Catholic medical missions funded by UN grants etc.
@@Tigeradams101 Na I'm in Germany. The hospitals are still "run" by the churches but all the overhead pay is provided by the german government. Funny enough it is the church that is still waging war against higher wages despite not having to pay them.
What I'm guessing is that this distinction is due to the church just being everywhere and rather than dividing everything up as you would with daughter firms it gets counted as one despite the country specific institutions running independently.
Around the world, the Church operates and maintains almost 6,000 hospitals, 20,000 dispensaries and clinics, around 800 leprosaries, almost 15,000 senior asylums and 6,000 orfanages.
We are also provide more food banks than anyone else world wide.
@@James-wu6qh it is but you also have to remember the Catholic Church doesn’t only operate in the United States. It’s world wide so yes we provide more health care than anyone else but it would be hard for us not to. Just like how we technically run the worlds largest food bank.
They wanted to build the telescope on Mt. Graham because it's a star gate for a portal that still active. They are basically watching it and guarding it. Oh ya i forgot to put this in too. Besides the portal on the peak of Mt. Graham they use it for the observation in i think its called Red Realm to watch other Planets and structures in the Red Realms from other beings in space.
Damn, can't even escape the Galileo myth on Half as Interesting
A year (at least what most people mean when they say year, gregorian calendar and such) not the rotation of the earth around the sun. Those two are just similar, but the time to complete a full orbit is a couple of minutes longer. That is a significant distinction: it makes astrology instead of just being very unlikely actually complete nonsense
The Catholic Church has pretty much always been pro-science. Galileo was hardly even punished for his "heresy", although it is obviously true that the Church acted too quickly with regards to him, which was done because his publications were quite insulting to the Church's position. Before Galileo had pushed the issue with his publication, heliocentrism vs geocentrism was a topic that was arguably up for debate, which is why although Galileo had espoused his support for heliocentrism for a while, he wasn't brought forth for charges of heresy until then. It was a rash move by the Church and a mistake that shouldn't have happened BUT it wasn't anti-science. It was an issue of politics and influence of the Church, and could have happened with anything else that the Church disagreed with somebody on.
That little Mario Pope joke really got me
Don't worry, at the rate Tucson is expanding it'll probably be in the city center in a couple decades.
The discovery of the four Moons of Jupiter (Io, Europa, Ganimede and Callisto), now called "Galileian Moons, was the straw that broke the camel's back.
The pre-Copernicans believed that the Earth was the centre of the Universe, so four celestial bodies orbiting something that wasn't the Earth - was sort of blasphemous, and therefore the people just refused to watch into the telescope: it was this event that made Galileo act inconsistently. Luckily his sister was a nun which interceded with the Church.
Giordano Bruno was a friar and a cosmologist - but wasn't so lucky, or able like Galileo.
The statue at Campo dei Fiori in Rome stands where he was burned at stake in year 1600...
Except Bruno was burned at the stake for talking smack about the Virgin Mary and other theological no-nos, lol. His scientific theories might not have helped, but they weren’t the focus of his inquisition trial.
The Catholic friar who developed empirical science and the scientific method wasn't Galileo, it was Roger Bacon.
I was always taught that the scientific method was revitalized during the Islamic Golden Age
3:30 you forgot to add Halton's Arp story here...our second Galileo
I put this video on the suggestions list :)
A video saying something positive about the largest charity organization in the world? That's odd.
they gotta give you free stuff to get you to allow them to brainwash you… duh.. or more importantly brainwash your kids..so. they will brainwash thier kids and so forth.
@@CarigisX The Catholic Church is the most relaxed out of all major religions, and most catholics are pretty relaxed about it all too. I would say other religions are much more prone to try to "brainwash" people, although I wouldn't call it that. Everyone just tries to get people on their side and teach their own way
fact
we have never witnessed the Ignition of a new star in the entire history of photographic astronomy.
An Ignition event would be a thermonuclear fusion explosion. Unmistakable.
How do you get to hell?
Very simple: claim that you're innocent.
How do you get to heaven?
Very simple: Admit that you're not Innocent, you're guilty and ask for mercy.
How to know if you're guilty or not?
Simply: Compare your life to the Ten Commandments God gave you in the Bible.
Everyone agrees that if people followed the ten commandments there would be no need for governments or police.
Do not lie.
Do not steal.
Do not commit adultery.
Do not insult God by using his name as a cuss word.
There are six more but let's just leave it at that.
How many lies have you told in your life?
Have you ever taken anything that didn't belong to you?
Jesus said, if you look at a women lustfully you've already committed adultery in your heart with that woman.
How many times a day do you do that?
Do you use God's name as a cuss word?
Would you do that with your own mother's name?
If you answer these questions honestly you know that you're guilty.
God can justly punish you and send you to hell.
Ask him for mercy.
His name is Jesus.
It's as simple as this, The Ten Commandments are called the moral law. You and I broke God's laws. Jesus paid the fine.
The fine is death.
Ezekiel 18:20 -
"The soul who sins shall die.
That's why Jesus had to die on the cross for our sins. This is why God is able to give us Mercy.
Option A.
You die for your own sins.
Option B.
Ask for mercy and accept that Jesus died on the cross for you.
What sort of calendar-related observations does the Vatican make? Like, what do they actually measure to figure out when Easter ought to be, or whatever? Do they do that still today, or is the need for an observatory mostly a hold-over from the past?
It's the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox, which is why it can move by up to a month. I believe it's still set this way, but as it's easier to model in advance now I'm not sure if the telescope is strictly necessary anymore.
It is not used in that fashion anymore, but it is a traditional part of the papal court and colaborates with all other observatories around the world as all “non-church” observatories do.
Well we use our own calendar for mass. Called the liturgical calendar but we translate it (it’s the best way to describe it) to the standard Gregorian calendar. So we can figure out feast days and so on for laymen.
I went to school at Eastern Arizona College which is at the base of Mt. Graham. I've visited the telescope too!
The Catholic church is amazing and the church of the one true God.
9/10 from this Catholic. You did a great job summarizing, but some of the contrarian stuff felt forced as if only to come across as unbiased. Hope you do a video on Galileo and his trail next, because boy is there a lot to unpack that pop-history gets wrong. Just check the comment section for the armchair historians debating, lol:
I had a teacher in high school who was a hardcore conspiracy theorist, and she got really worried when she found out about this.
Don’t worry about the spelling mistake at 4:12. I also confuse excommunicated monks with DC villains.