Will QUANTIZATION kill your music? The secret weapon - TRACK DELAYS!
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- When recording a midi track for your mockup, you will never hit the beats with absolute precision - but does that mean that should you quantize everything? Aren’t you gonna destroy the musical soul of your performance that way? Or should you maybe quantize and afterwards employ the “humanize” function of your DAW ? These are the key questions Alex will be dealing with in this week’s episode, plus a brief introduction into track delays - what they are, when and how to use them and why they come in handy in the world of orchestral sample libraries.
Virtual Orchestration is a collaboration between Berklee College of Music (Boston, USA) and Orchestral Tools (Berlin, Germany).
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Video creation credits:
Script / video concept 📜 : Alex Lamy, Eduard Flemmer
Script Consultation 🔍: Sascha Knorr, Hendrik Schwarzer
Camera 🎥 and Editing ✂️ : Fabián Barba Hallal
Motion graphics 🎨 : Michael Logar
Production Assistant 🎬 : Aleksi Oksanen
Adjusting velocity for accents is the most important to get a more human feel. It also helps so that each note doesn’t sound the same if there are different dynamic layers and round robins. Or adjusting dynamics and expression for longs.
Quite a bit of research is going on over at vi-control on negative track delay and several OT libraries have have their negative track delays posted.
Yes! That database is a great resource 👍🏻
Once again, a better video than the previous one! This is the best video to prevent everything from going to F&©$! haha,
now this is REALLY the best advice I ever heard on how to treat orchestral samples, it was driving me crazy trying to get them to look good on the score
the track delay is gold. I always did it by sliding back the notes slightly. I feel kinda stupid now xD
I sequence my tracks by plonking notes down in the piano roll (rather than playing them in), and then adjusting the timing of each note manually~ May not be everybody's way but it works for my music!
Yes this is exactly how I do it! 😁 Although when I layer percussion, I do use the humanize function so they don't play exactly at the same time. I find that doing it this way (specifically when layering different perc instrumens) can create a bigger sound!
That sounds like a great use for that function!
Hey Bara, yeah, this is a really awesome and creative way of using the "humanize" / "randomize" option!
Yes! I use it all the time since I found out about it :)
I'd never subscribed so fast to any other channel on YT. Less than one minute into the video and I already clicked the bell! I went to check out the rest of your content after watching it and I realised my first impulse was totally justified. You're growing fast with good reason!
Most of the things you cover in this video I had to discover them on my own when I began working with sampled instruments about three years ago. At that time I just couldn't understand why every library or even the various instruments within them had such a different timing when trying to follow the metronome. And not many other instructors cover this topic, let alone with as much clarity as you do. Best luck to the channel! Outstanding job!
Thanks, Marc! Hope you enjoy all the other videos!
As far as I know, it's not only the attack time but also a question of where the editors of the library cut the samples that contributes to the overall delay of the samples. I have the negative delays for my favorite sample libraries in my template, so once I'm through with finding them out (by ear), I never have to mess around with them again 😎
I've started noticing this as I started using sample libraries more, it felt weird compensating a lot tho. I wasn't sure if it's the right thing to do, but the results were good. So I thought that's what matters the most, right?
Well seeing this really helps feel secure in my decisions and that I'm not crazy! 😂 Thanks!
Great video. Absolutely love your presentation style on all your content :)
Something I do is I don't Quantize at 100 percent strength - Normally around 72 to 88 depending on the instrument; this still tends to leave it clean on the DAW but still not full on robot-mode. Sometimes, if having to sample a solo instrument - I don't quantize at all; or I'll create a separate track for 'effects' such as glisses and off-tempi type items.
Thank you so much for demystifying. I agree 100%. If someone tells me I have to "dequantize" my MIDI to sound more human I respond: no, but therefore I will do 3 things: 1) add more dynamics to each track, 2) add even more dynamics to each track, 3) listen very carefully and add even more dynamics to each track.
Hey Jens. Well, there are still creative ways of using the "ramdomize"/"humanize" function, which some of the viewers in the comments have pointed out. But your approach is definitely a very very good one. Thank you so much for sharing that with us and for your very nice comment!
Exactly what I needed! Thank you! I guess this is why the pro's also have a track for every articulation, the timing wouldn't work otherwise I guess.
Velocity and the magic of the performance is in the individual notes, not necessarily if the entire project is quantized.
Hello guys!
Great advice from the professionals !
Thanks for the great lessons !
Regards, Yaroslav.
To my ears, beginning at 6:00, the 4 strings appear to have substantially less reverb than the 15 strings, so the intended comparison of blur between the recordings is impacted.
They’re using the same mic positions, recorded at the same studio, and no reverb. I think it’s possibly the spot signals for the smaller library might be louder (I’d have to go and check that), but some of that reverby sound is the fact that we have a lot more players, and the sound it’s blurred, and maybe that little bit louder in the room as well.
This is great! Thank you! ❤
Thank you Alex! Best host ever😈
He is definitely the best; both an angel 😇 and a devil 😈 in disguise 😉. Thank you for your comment, Maxime!
Excellent video
Thank you very much, Mark ! Excellent comment ;)
Track delay may be ok if you have one articulation on each track, eg lower strings chugging away staccato with a legato melody over the track. This works for film music, however for standalone composition you would want different articulations; it does not seem feasible to have one note on one track and the next on another!
If I am using a set of instruments developed from the same provider, for example, Berlin Strings, then I don't need to add any track delays because all instruments were recorded in situ. The only delays I need to add/subtract are for different articulations of different instruments. Am I right?
One library is going to usually work well within itself, but even then, legatos will be behind the beat by nature, short notes might not be tight at faster tempos if they’re not cut ultra-tight, sustains might have attacks that are just a bit too soft, or swells and crescendos that are just slightly off the beat. Negative track delay sorts all of that out while keeping things quantised.
Hey great video! Are there suggestions from orchestral tools about the negative track delays for each patch? I have Tom Holkenborg Brass. It would be so nice to have a list to start with
Have a look over on the VI-Control forum. David Kudell started off a brilliant database that is being constantly updated 👍🏻
Great tips again. Would you get in trouble when setting your delays in milliseconds and have tempo changes? Is it better to use the midi-ticks in the delay than?
Actually it’s the other way round, if you set them in ticks then they’re tempo dependent and will change if the tempo changes. Milliseconds will be the same regardless, and as this is mostly about offsetting the lag in a legato patch, or to get things relatively together, you want the value to remain static once you’ve figured out the right delay time 👍🏻
@@alexlamymusic logic... you are right, thanks for clarifying
Thanks
Humanise feature works for programmed drums
Hey Alex, how do you make individual negative time delays for multiple patches in the same sampler (Keyswitches)? Is there a way for that?
Same doubt!
Thank you for such exciting detailed videos, Alex! But I have a question about this video. I agree that quantization may not be necessary for group samples when it came to rhythmic parts. But how to deal with melodic lines that should incorporate some rhythmic freedom or a bit of rubato? It isn't possible to use a tempo track for this because the whole orchestra can't phrase music in the same manner. And how to deal with solo woodwinds and brass? These solo parts will sound mechanical if they are perfectly on the grid.
This is a good question! You’re right, if it’s one solo line that’s meant to feel rubato, you can’t really use the tempo track for it. With a solo line I don’t mind programming away from the grid, but it still has to be deliberate. There have been loads of times I convince myself that my timing or phrasing is right, and then I come back to the piece a bit later with fresh ears and think it’s a mess, and just quantize it 😅
In most cases, especially with legato patches, it doesn’t sound mechanical, as not every transition or attack is the same.
For rubato across lots of parts, or the whole orchestra, I’d still quantise and attempt to program the tempo track with very deliberate music intentions.
In reality I do a bit of everything. It’s good practice to quantise everything, especially if I’m working on a film, but if it sounds right without quantising then I don’t want to mess it up by trying to improve it!
I have a question about solo instruments, let's say that I have a solo piano that plays a long with a string ensemble. Should I use the "huminzation/randomization" on the piano to make it's not just slightly off the grids ? is it ok in this case for solo instruments ?
Question here🙋♂️ what if you are working with a key switch patch like most of OT’s sine player patches? It contains both long and short articulations. If we have to break them into separate tracks to set negative delays, then the key switch single patch kinda missing it’s purpose?
Thank you!
Good question! I usually have a three-fold approach to this if I use key-switches. Legato on one track, other sustains/longs on another, and shorts on a third. You can delete and re-make key switches easily in SINE, and so far I’ve found the shorts in one library are consistent with other shorts, and so on, so it works well.
Do you have a course that I can attend to? I have learned a lot from your short videos
This is the course! 🥳 It just a weekly release schedule, and without a syllabus behind it. Hopefully all the other videos we make are just as helpful 👍🏻
@@alexlamymusic thanks, i'll keep visiting your channel often. You can also listen to some of my orchestration, hope I can improve
Thanks for yet another absolutely great video! Please keep them coming, and coming!
A question related to this topic. What if I start with a piano MIDI track that is already ”hard-quantized” to the grid? So that it is not possible to reduce or remove the quantization. I know that it is possible to vary the tempo to create some ”feeling”. But that is a tedious process. I have managed to use a MIDI controller to record variations in tempo but it is still not easy to add believable feeling to a static piano track.
Is there a way to bring static piano MIDI to life without hiring a professional pianist?
Great question, and honestly difficult to answer because I think there probably isn’t any other way than doing it note by note, or playing something back in. As it’s a solo piano, it’s meant to have some intention behind the way it’s played - some of that is timing, some of it is feel, or dynamic etc. Getting that back in needs some decisions from you as well, and I’m not sure there are any good shortcuts 🥲
@@alexlamymusic AI? 😂
@@formless_music Genuinely quite a good idea! Maybe there will be a way that an AI can provide a 'realistic' interpretation of a midi file for piano music in the future. It kind of makes me think of the Steinway Spirio piano, which plays itself from a library of pieces, but also in the different styles of famous pianists too. If that sort of data was given to an AI, there might actually be a way that classical piano music could be re-generated in any way you like, and then output as MIDI. E.g. "Play that middle section a bit more like Liszt might, and the end more like Seymour Bernstein". Would be quite cool, right?
@@alexlamymusic Yes, it is definitely possible in the near future if someone can justify the effort! Maybe a cool graduate or post-graduate project at Berklee? You can sign me up as a tester! 😃
Reason does NOT have negative Track Delay.
That’s sad to hear! It must be the only DAW that’s missing that feature, surely?
What if you use key switches?
That unfortunately breaks this workflow with track delays, Some articulation needs very long offsets, and some not as much, causing the issue with not matching delays.
A compromise between Keyswitches and Track offsets is to have all short articulations in one instance, and all long articulations in another. That way you can approximate the track offset for each instance
yeah, thats sorta what I've been discovering from trying it out actually. I do love the control you can get with the tempo track. It feels great when you get it just right. Ill close my eyes and "air conduct" and when it fits tight its very rewarding!
Would be nice if all manufacturers of sample libraries documented this rather than having to rely on other users to do so. Maybe 2 manufacturers document it?
Perhaps we can get an update to SINE that informs the max attack of loaded articulations, and delays those that are less than that, so we don't have to all work in this articulation per track workflow? Having written something for a competing string library in Kontakt, this is something I would really like to see for SINE.
I think part of that is about building an offset time into the idea behind the samples, and into the editing, which I’m not 100% sure is a great idea either. I always find those patches awkward to work with because they’re not really designed to be played live. But I do know what you mean, it would be good if all legatos at least had a consistent reference. The VI-Control negative track delay database is a great starting point, but I wanted to make the point that it’s actually quick and easy to do by ear too, and when combining different libraries there will always be different numbers.
@@alexlamymusic I get you. Also a good excuse to delving through the library, finding those gems and learning the tools you've got. I'm greedy, I just want both!