Borescope on brand new, never cleaned or fired Shilen match barrel
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2021
- This is a Savage pre-fit, 7mmRM 1-9 twist barrel. I opened the package, wiped off the outside, and put a borescope down it. The color at the very beginning of the video wiped out very quickly and easily. It appears to have been some kind of light grease.
This is the first time I've looked down an unfired barrel, so I don't know what to make of it.
This is my third Shilen barrel. Hopefully it shoots as good as the first two!
I couldn't tell you what my Shilen match barrel ever looked like. The paper tells me that even after 900 rounds this barrel is the most accurate barrel I've ever owned. The day I start having problems it's coming off and another one just like it is going on. Worth every penny...
I 100% agree, lots of people knock these barrels but I’m telling everyone these things flat out shoot. Got one on a creedmoor shoots 1/2” all day with any bullet, also got one on a 338 lapua, another 1/2” all day barrel. It could definitely do better with a tedious hand loader but I’m just an average dude.
Same story with me. 1/2 to 3/4 inch strings with ordinary Winchester and Hornady. I'll shoot a group or two with factory loads ever so often and I can attest that my Barrel shoots those too.
I have a 26" Shilen Savaage pre-fit chambered in .222 Rem. with a .250 neck diameter and a 12 twist. It's screwed into a Savage 12 target action and sits in a HS precision stock.
Shooting 40 gr. Berger hand loads seated right to the lands.
My 50 (5 shot) group average at 100 yards over 10 sessions is .33. 42% of those groups were under .3.
My set up is nothing special and I am a 70 year old man with diminishing eyesight. I have been shooting for accuracy for only a few years and I am pretty happy with this barrel.
Like you, as soon as this average goes above .35, I will order a new one. It took 5 months to get this one.
@@jimenright318 you planned an excellent build and you have a well rounded knowledge. Looks like you know exactly what you want to do. Maybe we'll meet out there and you can do an in-person show n tell!
@@Jeff_Seely Thanks for your kind words. I do what I can with a limited budget. I always enjoy meeting other shooters because that's how I learn. My goal is to shoot .25 or better on a consistent basis. I like Savage because barrel swaps are easy and Shilen makes quality pre-fits. Good enough for me as I will never have the money for Bat, Bartlein, McMillan, etc.
Hi Guys
I am so happy to see someone is taking a real interest on the inside finish and quality of rifle barrels ! I have had to return 4 barrels back to Blaser Germany all were new barrels and all have major pitting corrosion.. we are all paying huge money for these items and it’s about time we make these barrel makers accountable for the inside quality
If anyone is interested to see this pitting please drop me a message with their email and I will share it with you
I’m fairly new to all this. I have a 300 blk out barrel from Bear Creek Arsenal and out of the box I saw a lot of surface rust when I bore scoped it. It shocked me at first.😮 I’m glad to know that’s common. After cleaning it with some CLP it looked brand new. We are dealing with steel after all. It’s gonna rust if not cleaned and stored properly.
l have had eight Shilen match grade barrels fitted and have bore scoped everyone before the smith gets his hands on it, none of mine have ever looked so rough, in fact they looked perfect
send it back for an exchange
Nathan, the leade angle is very smooth and uniform, it is chambered straight! Those small little imperfections are not going to mean diddly squat when it comes to shooting small groups. Thanks for posting, and please keep the video's coming. Another poster asked the exact model of bore scope you are using due to the brilliant optics!
nope,
these barrels are hand lapped and way better than this, it is not a howa barrel
how it got through QC is a mystery
it needs to go back
I finally got a bore scope and I'm having a good time with it. I bet barrel makers aren't too happy we get to finally see the insides! I imagine they are also tired of hearing complaints about what we see in barrels that look shocking, but don't degrade accuracy. I am all about keeping companies on point with their products though, even cosmetically, if/when I am paying 2-3 times the price. I recently purchased a Ballistics Advantage premium barrel for $200. It has inclusions/nicks/scratches all down the lands. I would have got all bent out of shape, but after looking at the barrel in a gun that will shoot 1/4 MOA at a mile, I am keeping calm. That ELR gun I just spoke of is a Savage 110 Elite Precision 300 WM and there are concentric chatter marks from the throat to the crown. Same with my Savage 110 High Country 300WM, and 3 other Elite Precisions that have come through my shop. It's just how Savage makes them. They all shoot great, but will bleed blue profusely with copper solvent. What I didn't like seeing in your Shilen was the unevenness of the lands cut at the throat. You tell me though if it matters. BTW, my Kimber 84M Hunter has a barrel cut like it would cost $1000! It is absolutely gorgeous! I intend to show some of bore scope vids int he near future. Thanks for putting this up!
I've come to the conclusion that a beautiful barrel isn't required to shoot well. Knowing what velocity your barrel likes to shoot at seems to be the biggest variable. I don't reload, and its been very interesting getting a box of bullets, chronoing a few, shooting the rest of the box at differing ambient temps, and noting the accuracy. In my 270 Shilen, it likes the Federal Fusion 130 gr at about 3015, 3020 fps. Some boxes shoot as high as 3080 and the groups really open up. My Shilen barrels are the first ones I've owned that are accurate enough to be able to make these conclusions. This 7mmRm I sold after the elk hunt I built it for, so I can't say for certain exactly how accurate it was, but during sighting in with Federal 155 Terminal Ascent, it shot very consistently on about 7, 8 shots out to 400 yards. I suspect it's another very accurate barrel though.
The more stuff like this I see the more I think that the average Joe (like me) would do well to learn how to hand lap their own barrels. If you get that from a Shilen match grade, you know that a lot of lesser bbls are not going to be pretty. I think fire lapping is simple, but probably too aggressive. Thanks for sharing.
Im not sure hand lapping could even remove those marks, they are pretty pronounced ridges from the button. they happen in every button rifled barrel ive scoped but dont seem to effect accuracy(consistency) any.
I found that my 1951 vintage (Pre-64) Model 94 Winchester has similar chatter marks in the bore which is in very good shape for it's age.
I didn't expect a premium barrel to have Chatter Marks.
I have a Shilen barrel on Uintah Precision upper receiver in 6.5 Creedmoor, I bore scoped it but after shooting around say one hundred rounds, it does not look like what you are seeing in your barrel machining marks.
Well... I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the tooling/chatter marks aren't the ONLY problem!!! At the start of the video the scope was turned showing the freebore. It's cut heavily on one side and light (with rifling showing through) on the other, before he goes up the barrel!!! The chamber is off center!!!! I'd be more concerned about that!!! I've seen barrels shoot with putting and tooling marks, BUT, bad chambering and a poorly cut crown... that's another story. Not even mentioning poorly bedded bolt guns!!😁
I meant pitting not putting!!!
Some of my "factory" barrels look like they used a crow-bar to rifle them (like f*cking rough, I mean RUFF). In competition, i've used Krieger, Bartlein, IBI and all are great. I have a Shilen SM 4 groove ratchet in 6mm that has a flaw about 2" back from the muzzle and it consistently shoots in the .20 - .3's If it shoots well, just shoot it. Like the paint on a race car, might be faded and flaky. But, if it drives well and wins!
I have some pretty marked up factory barrels that still shoot well. I would expect more from a hand lapped match barrel though.
I can understand your position. I guess an accurate barrel is an accurate barrel in my book.
QC has gone to shit these days everywhere. That barrel is gonna make the copper solvent companies rich.
I just got a $600 Proof Research barrel that came riddled with pitting. They told me they wouldn't send me a new one. Pisses me off when I spend as much on a barrel that the rifle cost new and it is pitted.
I had a cheap production barrel in 22-250 that had about as many chatter marks on the lands as the barrel you show. It only grouped about 2 to 3 MOA at a hundred meters initially. After lapping it with a lead core the marks are now barely visible and it produces sub-MOA groups at the same distance. I checked out my brand new barrels (never shot not installed on rifles yet) from Lothar Walther, Douglas and Heym and there are no chatter marks on their lands. The Shilen barrels that I have seen looked like a mirror too! I really doubt that Shilen put their usually excellent machining and lapping efforts in the barrel you portrayed.
Good data point, thank you
one reason why i dont have bore scope,it would worry me to death,i worry too much already!
The chattering marks do not mean it won't shoot well. But sadly i have scoped standard factory barrels that look better.
Agreed, some of the other barrels on my channel are on standard quality guns and they looked better. This shot really well though. I didn't regret my purchase and later sold it with a clear conscience. The next owner reached out to me not too long ago and told me he had good accuracy also.
I’ve had a half dozen Shilens, all shot well, the best of them was had a good bit more chatter than that.
It was a sad day when that barrel finally died.
Good to know. Do you have any experience with other brands?
Me, if it was my barrel from Shilen Barrels, I would have notified the company on the condition of the bore.
Thats alot of button chatter for a premium barrel. Seen CHF barrels that were glass-like
CHF are gloss inside, but not as accurate after repetitive shots such as competition. CHF do last very well in regard to lifespan
So this video is a couple years old now. I'd say that they didn't finish the lapping job very well. Most all of those marks should have been gone. How did the barrel perform? Was it super accurate or so-so?
Pretty well. I only shot factory ammo and the Terminal Ascent shot about 2/3rds MOA as I remember. I bought that barrel for a hunting trip and decided afterwards I didn't need it so sold it. The newer owner texted me back and said he was getting the same. I'd be willing to guess it'd be a .5MOA shooter with handloads, if not better. My other two Shilen barrels can shoot .25-.3MOA with boxes of ammo that have the velocity the barrel likes. This one might have done the same, I'm just not sure. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Nathan, would you mind sharing the exact model Bore Scope you are using! Great Video! Thanks!
Teslong NTG100. Thanks for watching.
I’ve looked at a lot of match grade barrels an none looked like that
Good? Bad?
@@quadracer9707 the barrels I’ve inspected were polished better
I'm novice but to my eye the lands seemed to have many marks on them, be interested in how it shoots for you!
John, I've shot it 26 times. 13 times with Remington ammo that didn't group all that well (which is universally my experience with Rem ammo). I've shot 13 times with Federal 155 gr Terminal Ascent that was sighting in a couple of shots and then confirming the output from the ballistics app out to 400. I didn't shoot for a group, per say, but it was hitting right where aiming. For factory ammo, I was quite happy with it. I looked at one of my other Shilen barrels and saw the same marks, but not quite as many. I'm still very happy Shilen customer!
Correction- I found the box of Remingtom ammo and only 9 rounds where fired, so total round count is 22.
@@Nathan_King Thanks for replying, this answered my question.
I would be interested to compare this To a brand new Savage.
If I can get my hands on one, I'll be sure to make a video.
I scoped a brand new .338 savage and it is much worse. Prolly cost the company $35. Me thinks its more important that the neck, freebore,& lead are concentric and that the muzzle crown is sharp.
Thanks for sharing
@@dragonflyfab9703 Ditto. Savage barrels have a ton of chatter. However, even so some seem to shoot very well. Not as good as custom barrel but better than most off the shelf rifles.
What borescope?
Teslong NTG100 Flexible
Would love to hear what shilen has to say about this!
I asked if I could send the video to them and talk to someone because i doubted it was handlapped. Their response was "Was there a problem with the way the barrel is shooting?
If there is a problem, we would like to have the barrel sent back to us so that our QA department can look at the barrel and verify it is within spec. If we find that the barrel is in spec, you would be responsible for shipping back to you. If it is out of spec or they determine something needs to be done to correct the barrel we would take care of it and ship it back to you at no charge. " I told them I wasn't interested in sending it in unless I could talk to someone first because I didn't want to potentially waste money on shipping and because my first 22 shots didn't raise any accuracy concerns. I didn't receive another response.
@@Nathan_King I would bet they scope them the same way you did and cull the ones that look real good and save them for their sponsored shooters and we get the rest.
@@Nathan_King I have a shilen barrel too however it is .22 rim and through the scope it looks much worse in the grooves and lands (tons of tooling scratches) ,
"what they said "(shilen) go shoot it first then call if it don't work .The big problem is rimfire doesn't make enough heat and pressure to fire lap.
.The only way i could make it work is with lots of slugging with abrasive grease(if i did wrong no warranty) .
so it sits on the corner
@howardjohnson5734 hate to hear that. If it's just in the corner collecting dust, maybe its worth trying to fix it? Sounds like the warranty is effectively useless to you already.
The only thing which is match grade is the price here.
Button chatter?
I can't remember if Shilen does button or hammer. But definitely part of the manufacturing process, whichever they use.
@@Nathan_King Shilen utilizes button rifling. Nearly every aftermarket barrel maker uses button rifling or cut rifling. Hammer forging equipment is very expensive and generally only the big manufacturers can afford to use that process.
hah one that had pits in it there junk to me
Wow at least i know not to buy a Shillen barrel ever....
Might explain why people aren't buying their barrels as much as they used to, or better put their market share has declined considerably it seems.
Precision shooting has grown exponentially lately, so I'm not sure loosing market share has to equate to their sales going down. I really have no idea though. Considering my ability and that I was using factory ammo, I was perfectly happy with its accuracy for the 22-ish shots I took with it. I'd probably argue the way the inside of the barrel looks shouldn't matter that much if the barrel is accurate.
@@Nathan_King I'm basing my thoughts on the other premium barrel makers that have taken hold. I like their barrels and they usually look a lot better than that as they do hand lap them. That one looked like maybe they skipped that step. As far as accuracy goes, most good factory offerings and modern barrels shoot well nowadays.
Very bad. Shilen suppose to have quality control before barrels leave the factory.
Hmmmm, seems pretty poorly made. It might shoot ok but a new car that drives alright but has a bashed fender is not a good product.
Bullshit Barrel right here.
looks like crap honestly, all that crosshatching will not help accuracy