What Adam Neely Doesn't Know
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- čas přidán 19. 02. 2020
- My thoughts on Adam Neely’s new video "Learning to Like Contemporary Christian Music (the music I hate)”
Here's a link to Adam's video: • Learning to Like Conte...
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Hi Dave you make a good point explaining CCM vs worship music and the reasons why the two are the way they are. I think Adam's objective for making his video was to explore why "he hates" a particular genre and start a discussion on the reason why each person might "hate" a specific genre. I didn't get the feeling that he was criticising CCM or worship music but articulating what kind of atmosphere/relationships/communication/experience he values among musician-musician, artist-audience, and the audience-music. Wishing you the best on your journey...
Kind and wonderfully written, hope all involved are well ♥️✌🏻
Thanks for the comment!
To be fair, Casting Crowns writes a major portion of their songs for the youth ministry they lead in GA.
Good point! I forgot about that. My bad. Thanks for reminding me! :)
Is it contemporary?
Is it Christian?
Is it music?
If the answers to these questions are all yes, then it is CCM by definition.
Thanks for the comment!
I think that you are correct in saying that ccm is more radio music and Adam was talking mostly about worship music, but if he made a video called "why I hate worship music," he would get a ton of crap over that. Great video by the way.
Great point!
Handel's messiah was supposed to be played in a church and that thing is hella complicated, technically demanding, and so expressive. Most worship music is none of those things. And it appealed to a wide range of the people at the time. I think artists should do more to make their music interesting. If Christians worship a creative, expressive God. All music should reflect that.
I appreciate your point but it's worth noting that worship songs are not meant to be performance pieces, They meant to unify the church in singing. I can't say that I've ever heard Handel's messiah and just had to jump in and sang along. Have you? Thanks of the comment!
Well, he was just expressing his personal taste, which in the end, it's great that we have different perspectives and tastes. Like, I'm not a fan of CCM or contemporary worship music, but I can respect it and I truly believe in the art and emotional involvement that people in those scenes put into their craft.
Lastly, thank you for making the differenciation between the two, CCM and Worship music.
Keep on going!
Thanks so much for your input and for you encouragement!
I'd think that for the general person, the distinction between the two is so small as to be irrelevant. From my experience, the many churches that aren't massive like hillsong and don't have their own band writing music, pull music from the radio. I'm totally not up to date as I also don't like this area of music very much. But isn't tobymac and newsboys a little more early 00's? Like the Bethel's and Hillsong's of the world are the big players in CCM now, right?
The overplaying issue is one that's hard for me to work out. Because I totally feel what Adam says about stifling the life of the music. Though there is certainly a point to be made about less skilled/disciplined musicians needing to be smart about what they try to play. I personally feel that what i've seen of gospel music can be a bit excessive and counter to the goal of a reflective worship "musicking." But that's probably not the only goal one could have with worship. Surely someone from a church like that would feel differently about gospel music.
I'm getting into the weeds, but I need to think about the role and purpose of worship more and probably about 1 corinthians 14 stuff again. Cuz whatever form or style of worship takes place...it should be for the building of the body...not the self. Gifts, even musical, should then be expressed only to that end. But also worship clearly isnt just the singing of songs (Rom 12:1). Anyways those are my thoughts for now!
Thanks of the comment! I appreciate you perspective!
This makes really really good points all around. I checked out a couple of the CCM bands you mentioned and it sounds nothing like what Adam was describing in the video.
Thanks so much for the comment! That's why I made the video. :)
I agree with many things about Adam Neely's assessment of Christian music, but I also agree with you that his criticism is focused on Worship Music and not really all of CCM. I agree with Adam that the chord choices are extremely limited, almost always the I, IV, V and VIm chords (in key of C that'd be C, F, G, Am). I think it is sad that music to worship God uses such a limited set of harmonies that He gave us.
Brief rant -- Quite a few worship songs do one thing that makes me want to leave the sanctuary. Those who really listen to the music will note that many songs have a keyboard where a certain note is played in every chord of the song. For example in the key of C, maybe the C note would be played for every chord. And since C is one of the notes of the C, F and Am chords, that's fine. But then to play the C note, a Gsus chord is substituted for the G chord. And there is nothing musically wrong with that. For me the problem is when the C note is played through the entire song. Think about it -- that is the very definition of the word "monotonous." This note is basically a drone note sounding through the whole song. This might be fine for one song, But song after song after song for the last 15 years, the monotony has gotten quite tiresome to me. Sometimes I wonder if the musicians are patting themselves on the back thinking they are being creative in their monotony because instead of a plain G chord they are playing a Gsus. Sometimes (in the key of C) the note that is held in monotony is the fifth, that is, the G note. And this is fine because the G is part of the C and G chords, and turns the Am chord into an Am7. And playing a G with the F chord makes it Fadd9. Or we could be honest and just say we are playing C, F, G and Am on top of a drone note. Monotony. Drives me crazy.
I feel ya. It's tough because the overall goal is to unify the church in worshiping our Savior. So we lean on the safe side of harmony to make things more accessible. But that's at the expense on more complex harmonic concepts.
I'm not a fan of the constant drone note either. On the other hand, I heard songs where every chord is a 7th chord and this feels almost as band to me.
All that said, I believe things are starting to shift toward more creative decisions. It's easy to have an opinion but much harder to make a change. It's gonna take all of us moving in that direction and supporting those moving in that direction for anything to change.
Thanks for the comment!
@@GettinBetterWithDave, I agree with things being accessible. But how far does stuff have to be dumbed down in order to be accessible? I've been involved in contemporary Christian music for 40 years. A lot of that music in the past was more artistic in harmonies and chord choices and no one seemed to have accessibility issues then. Even hymns are often more musically complex than today's crop of songs. In fact I almost cringe when a new flavor of an old hymn comes out because it is almost always dumbed down, like eliminate all non-diatonic chords because we just can't handle it, although previous generations could. I do look forward to the day of returning creativity rather than mostly formulaic songs. There are some good songs out there, even ones that stick with diatonic, but I just can't listen to contemporary Christian for very long or I go crazy.
As a CCM/Worship Music insider, I agree with your first point, but hate to quibble with Adam because I think his critiques are so fair and important. But your take about the Don Moen video is actually spot on: normal musicians overplaying would not be nearly as tasty. Your final point is an important re-framing of the whole conversation - this music is meant for houses of worship, not really for the radio. Still, I'd love to see Adam's video impact songwriters and raise the overall bar of music, musicianship, and musicking. For example - the use of tracks, and an with obsession with sounding just like the album, really needs to be reconsidered given the venue where the musicking is occurring. Thanks for your video - I really do think it adds to the conversation!
Thanks so much for your incite! I agree with you, our song writers can always improve on their craft and hopefully this will inspire a little more effort in the harmonic content of new songs.
@@GettinBetterWithDave aloha Dave and thanks for making this video. I wouldn’t normally point out typos but this one is so oppositional to what I think you’re meaning to say, that I’m going there... please take a look at incite vs insight. Bless ya 🙏🏼
I think his point is that it is too canned as far as instrumentation and harmonies.
There is plenty of beautifully arranged choral music for churches. Bach, Handle etc. Lately, the catholic church has some rising star composers from all around the world commissioned to compose complex and beautiful stuff for worship.
Thanks for the comment! I appreciate your point of view. For me, Bach does not inspire me to sing along, just sit and listen. The churches I've served at have all wanted people to join in with singing, the more complex the harder that is to do.
Can you provide an example of “getting close?”
Hey, there are lots of interesting songs that can be replicated. but here's three examples: Hillsong United - So Will I, Elevation Worship - More Than Able, Cody Carnes - Firm Foundation.
I hadn't thought about the aspect of skill level of worship band in churches. That made a lot of sense to me when you said it. I have a small church and the people in our worship band really only have a few minutes to practice every Sunday, and it really helps to have songs that can be easily picked up and performed. I also love that clip of the drummer playing oceans
Thanks so much for your comment! It's tough because there's a fine line in that, we also want people to grow in their ability and strive for excellence. But I can't tell you how many times in a worship band rehearsal I've had to dumb something down because it was too difficult for the team to nail. A balance must be struck.
Good point! I have been thinking about he difference between CCM and Worship Music. The Moen video seems old to me. You have the 4 inch Mackies. I love mine. I don't think he thought about who has to try to play this music. We get to see the set a few days ahead. Practice at home. Maybe have one rehearsal and hope for the best. i wish he had heard some of the music in a live setting. Yah, that cover of Oceans made me cry a little bit. Subscribing to your channel!
By the way, this video was in my suggested. Well, done!
Wow! Thanks so much for your comment! Yep, Just trying to continue the conversation about worship. I feel like worship gets a bad rap. Also, The 4" Mackies are stupid good for the price. :)
Yeah i also thought the music he talked about seemed a little different from the genre he titled it. Adam neely's points abt how to learn to like music you generally dislike are still very valid though. Thanks for the video!
Agreed! Thanks for the comment!
Good counterpoint video!
I was going to reply with "All that makes sense, but how do you explain the musicianship of black Gospel churches, as featured in Sound Field's 'What Makes Black Gospel Musicians So Skilled?' video?". But then it occurred to me that the churches featured in that video all looked to have hundreds of congregants, which would make their pool of available talent much, much larger than the smaller-looking church in the clip you played (3:10)
You'd be surprise. Even now, working at a big church, I've had auditions and even players that made it through additions that need to be reigned in from time to time. Thanks of the comment! I'll have to check out that video you mentioned.
the problem i see with the don moen viedeo is, that he totally overlooks the role of aranging,
he pretends like, if every musican plays cool stuff, it sounds to busy. but if you arange a pice propaly every bandmember can play cool stuff without making the song sound like lsd(cause thats what he pretends).
Yeah but the arranging is mostly expressionless in worship music.
If you check out his old music, you hear a lot of technique, but CCM takes away almost all of that
Thanks for the comment!
Good point. You deserve a new subscriber. Here it is.
Thanks very much!
He says that the artists he chose were recommended by viewers. I think if that’s what people consider to be CCM then that’s what it is
Thanks for your thoughts!
Great video! Feedback: you should raise the volume of your microphone and speak up a little more. You have music in the background and you are speaking too softly. In my experience watching your video while driving my truck, it was very hard to hear and understand what you were saying. That’s all! Great video!
Hey man, I never replied to your comment but I did follow your advice! Thanks for you input!
I have been a part of CCM before it was CCM, back when we called it Jesus Music. It was always a musical child growing up to spawn artists, preachers, wannabees and worship leaders, influenced to whatever degree by those who wanted to market it. That path led to an end result which is a varied as reasons for it's existence. Adam is far too selective in his choice of evaluation and the real problem is not his evaluation of what he likes and doesn't like but more about his labels of what it is. Christians who consider everything CCM as a CCM genre are mislead. They, like Adam, have been convinced by marketers.
Agreed! Thanks for that insight!
i think, you are rite, but adams point still count in my oppinion. i am a musician and a cristian and i feel like falling asleep in church every sunday, cause the music is boring. i would love to listen to cristian musik every day, but i doesnt like the moste of it, cause its boring to me. i would love to listen to some christan prog.
What bands or artist do you listen to?
Im just gonna say...everybody forgets to talk about black gospel church music when talking about "worship".
Adam said in his video that he didn't include that as the CCM that he hates.
I'm referring to the general discussion not Adams video. Gospel isn't CCM.
It's funny, as old as this video is, I think Gospel is becoming more included in what people call CCM.
You leave alone that wonderfully hilarious drummer! Good video though.
That drummer sure has made me laugh a lot through the years!
good point
Thanks very much!
Ccm is an umbrella term now. Any Christian faith centered songs fall under it mostly.
It really is, I wish it wasn't. That umbrella would technically include Christian Rap and Metal. Not that I have a problem with either of those, It's just that the conversation was about a problem with the genre and CCM has many genres under that title but Christian Radio Pop is what that make me think of. Thanks for the comment!
I agree with your assessment, completely!!! Worship music, for the most part is made for us in smaller churches to play on a Sunday, so it is simpler. I would add that it is also written for congregations to sing and clap along and connect with each other to Worship The Lord. You can’t make it so out there that people just stand there reading the screen or watching the band. We have to throttle back an some songs that push the boundaries musically , but have great lyrics, just so we don’t spend three weeks straight trying to get everyone in the band to land in the right place on a break. Example: Glorious Day by Passion. We spent far too much time trying to time out the bridge. I finally just simplified it. No one knows it in the congregation.
I have been there! We sometimes complain that a worship song is too simple and then the next week, we introduce a song that's too hard and we have to simplify the parts! Round and round we go.
100% agree
Thanks for the comment!
Yeah, I agree that he got CCM wrong, for some reason Spotify groups both that and Worship Music into the CCM genre. Because Air1 has changed their whole system I’ve been disconnected from great artists like TobyMac and Newsboys. I’ve had to intentionally follow specific artists like that and it’s also affected how much new CCM artists can get discovered.
As far as Worship Music goes I understand that it needs to be simple so that everyone can play it, but so are Green Day songs. I like Rock music. The mainstream worship music is being written in the U2/Coldplay style (lil bit o country and edm). I think churches should be encouraged to play these songs in their own style, and I think that’s the intent of the writer’s too. Each individual’s creative expression. Unfortunately, this isn’t what I’m seeing. I’m seeing a lot of churches trying to sound exactly like the recording, trying to recreate Bethel’s spiritual encounters by copying their music, style and arrangement instead of discovering their own relationships and encounters with the Holy Spirit. All that to say, local churches don’t want me to play guitar, they want James Duke or Jeffery Kunde to play guitar. It gets on my nerves sometimes. All that to say...yep Adam Neely didn’t quite get the whole picture. Geez that was long...sory
Don't apologize! I get it, a lot has changed in the last 10 years with they way christians use music. For better or worse, here we are. We absolutely need to encourage each other to find "our sound" and part of the reason I worry about making tutorials on the channel. I want to show people what works for me but have to take that and find what works for you! Thanks for your input!
Bethel, Toby Mac, and Hillsong… all CCM
Thanks for the comment!
1. Exactly. Tomato tomahto
Clown Homer vs Krusty
Thanks for the comment!
Thanks of the comment!
This was a long piece of clickbait to say that you mostly agree with Adam.
Not exactly but thank you for your input. :)
Most contemporary worship music is just uninspiring, bland and forgettable (and worst of all, a lot of the lyrics aren't even biblical). And this lowers the bar for musicians and singers. Why put any effort when most songs are so easy they put you to sleep? If CCM would put out actually challenging and interesting songs, people would make the effort of learning them, because they're good songs. I mean that's what happens in gospel churches.
That's not been my experience but thanks of the comment!
Thanks for the review, Dave! Obviously, Adam does not understand the purpose of worship music, from the standpoint of a professional musician he is right about this, but from a standpoint of worshiping, he is wrong.
Thanks for your support!
Worship is boring... sorry.
Thanks for the comment. What music do you like?
I’ve done jazz for a long time, but I refuse to watch Adam Neely’s channel. Clickbaity, racist to white people, and you don’t have to constantly play impossible chords and licks to be a good jazz musician. There’s many other bad things I could say about him, but I shouldn’t.
He also teaches a lot of wrong things - for example, him saying that you shouldn’t play a full Eb11 chord is quite wrong - it can still work quite well.
that is exactly a boomer's perspective: close up, citate only the bad things whilst denying all the goods
also don't take this seriously, and have a great day!
Al Boo Boomer? Nah. I’m trying to say that playing just 7 and m7 chords perfectly is much better than playing the hardest, most complicated riffs and attempting to make it work. I support the former, Neely supports the latter.
@@TheUKNutter see this exact behavior again you focus on one problem and thats not how to get millionnaire
Al Boo How do you think I can get millionaire?
I want to make sure I understand the context here. Are you referring to Adam's video where he gives critique, and he recommends against using a full Maj11 chord stacked in thirds?