Who Is At Fault?
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- čas přidán 25. 04. 2024
- This is an interesting one, who would you say was at fault?
[Edit] This caused a bit of a debate in the comments about the car reversing with the pedestrian behind them but the car is reversing before the 0:43 mark [my handlebars were pointed the other way as I backed onto the space] when the pedestrian not only walks behind the car but then stops with their trolley in the way. I had a few Highway Code wavers comment but the HC states in Rule 15 that pedestrians must never cross behind reversing vehicles. Other rules such as H1 para 4 also apply to this one. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I left this for a week before replying to the comments to see if there would be a reasoned debate, but there wasn't. Taking three out of the five likes [at time of comment, 4th May 2024] to be related to the 'car driver at fault' comments the vote is 50-50 as to who is in the wrong if you take my opinion into account.
In order of comments posted [and thanks for them], my replies are below - note that I give a thumbs up to all comments I reply to to alert the person to the fact that I have replied rather than agreeing with them:
@patthewoodboy - A reversing vehicle is not always in the wrong. A reversing vehicle has far more restrictions on their view than one travelling forwards [except motorbikes where the rider doesn't have roof pillars to contend with] and this one was travelling slowly whilst the driver was checking to their left to see if any vehicles approached. The pedestrian walked behind a vehicle in motion and then stopped in a particulary bad spot for the driver.
Maybe it is because I ride a motorbike [and drive, walk and cycle] that I treat cars with more respect as over a ton of metal is less likely than I am to come to harm than I am in the event of a collision [although I did write a car off with the right hand side of my body in 2017]. In this situation, and knowing the restrictions on view would a reasonably prudent person place themselves in this situation?
@PeterWildman-gm2gq As I explained in the film the car was in motion as I backed into the space and the pedestrian walked behind a vehicle in motion - I wouldn't do that. The pedestrian came from my left so had plenty of time to observe the car but carried on anyway. As they got into a car I would hope their vision wan't that bad that they couldn't see a car reversing. I take it you wouldn't have placed yourself into a similar situation?
@altvamp Pedestrians do not have priority in all situations. I am doing [another] advanced riding course and part of the 'homework' is a bit of studying of the Highway Code, which is an Approved Code Of Practice for the various traffic laws in the UK. Page 13, Rule 15 states:
"Reversing Vehicles. Never cross behind a vehicle which is reversing, showing white reversing lights or sounding a warning". The car was in motion with the reversing lights showing.
This is in the "Rules For Pedestrians" section. Rule 202 also covers pedestrians from a driver's pespective, but this is before you start to reverse.
Now, I'm not a traffic copper who would have to interpret the law in this situation, but as far as I can see the pedestrian is in the wrong on all counts and common sense. No doubt there are people more knowledgeable than me on the law who could provide an opionon, and if they can post a reply these are, as always, welcome.
Again, thanks to the people who took the time to post a reply.
i hold . A, B ,D, C AND E. have driven around europe. north america. And while I am right in this instance. I would like to point out. everyone makes mistakes. but most accidents are caused by the attitude." I am right so I am not stoping or waiting". and when two arogant idiots meet. the problem becomes 100 times worse. I prefer the tolerant forgiving approach to driving now. I was once that young idiot that managed 100mph along london embankment on a bike though.
reversing car will always be wrong
@patthewoodboy - Thanks for the comment. Please see the reply in the pinned comment, I have answered multiple points there.
Drivers fault, pedestrians have priority, pedestrian was being an arse but some people are like that.
@altvamp - Thanks for the comment. Please see the reply in the pinned comment, I have answered multiple points there.
2:13 Why would you walk close behind parked cars in the first place? Because that is what you are meant to do in a supermarket car park if you are pushing a trolley? They often even have lanes painted on the road indicating that pedestrians should stick close to the parking spaces when walking along the lanes. You never noticed?
@Ironbuket - Thanks for the comment, in this particular car park, and most supermarkets in nearby towns, even Daventry and it's a proper rat race in that big city, there aren't the lines painted. The issue is that the pedestrian walks behind the car which is already reversing, then stops with their trolley behind the car. I have quoted bits of the HC in the 'most contentious film this week on CZcams' and also replied in the comments here, but it is an example of someone doing something that puts them at risk. No-one in their right mind walks closely behind a car that has it's engine running and reversing lights showing, even if it has not yet moved, particulary as they have a lot of car park and hence potentially moving vehicles to their left which the driver will need to look out for. I'll amend the description to make this clearer. Have you seen the suicidal jogger film as well? czcams.com/video/90aKEUtXsG8/video.html
@@TheRantyRider With the near silent electric cars these days and trolleys often making a lot of noise if the road is rough, you can easily have a vehicle come up behind you and not realise it. Sticking close the parking spaces is definitely the best place to push your trolley. I totally get the argument that the pedestrian should have spotted the car was reversing and waited, but the driver should also be looking around for pedestrians and not reversing if any were headed their way. I suspect they left their trolley there on purpose for the car to run into as a punishment for the car not seeing them. In the video they seemed to appear out of nowhere so maybe the driver couldn’t have seen them coming - hard to know without other camera angles
@Ironbuket - Thanks for the comment. Bar mounted cameras do tend to move when I'm backing the bike in, I thought the commentary covered it though. The car may have been a hybrid but there was definately an engine starting as I was reversing. The shop door is opening as I pull into the car park which is when it appeas the pedestrian is emerging, they then walked to the left of the Seat on my left, by which time the car was moving.
As the car was reversing I stopped moving so as not to distract them and you can just see that I start to move forwards to square up in the space before the end of the clip.
Electric cars seem to have reversing beepers these days, which should help. As for the driver's actions, he was looking around as I could see his head moving, but the greater risk would be to the rear and his left - on the opposite side of the car park is a 4x4 with it's lights on, is it about to pull off? To his left the view is blocked by another 4x4 so there may be a car coming up from there. I've seen two reversing cars collide in this carpark, neither driver loaded their boots with shopping before setting off, just got in their cars and crunch.
Now to reverse the situation, if someone was pulling a trolley backwards and a car drove into them despite being able to see them would the pedestrian be to blame for not looking out for the car coming from their left that wasn't there when they began to move?
Like you I believe the pedestrian tried to damage the vehicle deliberately. Notice how he didn't step behind the car himself or try to move the trolley out of the way? He wasn't even shouting stop, just saying it.
@@TheRantyRider This is like wading through treacle LOL I replied specifically in relation to your comment implying that pedestrians should not be pushing their trolleys near to cars, because I thought that was wrong. I think I’ve already covered this well enough, but your replies seem to keep trying to push this back onto who was at fault and that me discussing if people can push trolleys near to cars is somehow linked. I don’t think it is and I’m not trying to say it is. Ill just give up trying to make my point I guess - life’s not worth it. NB: I never meant the parked car was electric
@Ironbuket - Thanks for the reply, my apologies as we [ok, me] seem to have been on slightly crossed lines. I agree about keeping out of the centre of the road in car parks, point understood this time. Perhaps you can use a bigger hammer to bang your point through my skull? 😃
I was misreading the post as it was late and my fingers were bleeding from the other replies.
the pedestrian was pushing a trolly down the main route. the car was trying to join the main route. the pedestrian had right of way the same as a car would in the same position. when reversing onto the main route you wait utill there is a gap in the trafic. you do not force others to stop.
@PeterWildman-gm2gq - Thanks for the comment. Please see the reply in the pinned comment, I have answered multiple points there.